Latex vs. Silicone?

[Mermaid Momo]

I don't think I've ever come across a thread on this topic before, but I'm very curious of the benefits of a latex tail over a silicone or a silicone over a latex? I bring this up because on the mermaid melissa sale post, the mer selling the tail mentioned that it won't last forever because it's latex. Is this true for all latex tails? will they need constant up keep and fixes to keep it in good running order? or is that only if the tail isn't taken well care of (like rinsing it after being in chlorinated pools or salt water, or scraping it across the group and doing touch ups every now and then.)
Also, I've been looking at the monster makers website and has anyone ever used the Latex softening agent on a tail? From the website it says you add it to the latex before pouring it to make it more flesh like the more you add. Do you think this will make the tail too soft and prone to more damage? (I am planning on testing this too though before putting it on a full tail).

[Lily]

I've worked with both silicone and latex (latex in simple moldmaking, currently making a tail in silicone) and so far the silicone FEELS way better and more realistic. It's softer and more flesh-like and has a beautiful translucency that adds a great deal of realism to the tail. Latex feels very rubbery and almost rough. Latex also isn't as flexible, which is probably why it wouldn't last as long in a tail - the constant motion will cause it to crack and fall apart, even when it's over a fabric backing and well-maintained.

There are also allergies to consider if you're going to be a tailmaker or do parties/performances. While you personally may not be allergic to latex, your potential clients could be. It would suck to be doing a kid's party or other event and have someone break out in a rash because they touched your latex tail. :(

[Mermaid Momo]

I've worked with both silicone and latex (latex in simple moldmaking, currently making a tail in silicone) and so far the silicone FEELS way better and more realistic. It's softer and more flesh-like and has a beautiful translucency that adds a great deal of realism to the tail. Latex feels very rubbery and almost rough. Latex also isn't as flexible, which is probably why it wouldn't last as long in a tail - the constant motion will cause it to crack and fall apart, even when it's over a fabric backing and well-maintained.

There are also allergies to consider if you're going to be a tailmaker or do parties/performances. While you personally may not be allergic to latex, your potential clients could be. It would suck to be doing a kid's party or other event and have someone break out in a rash because they touched your latex tail. :(
That's what I was thinking about (about the rubbery texture) but Latex is all I can afford at the moment (the full tail will only cost $400 to make with latex but if I use dragonskin silicone I'm sure it would more than double that amount, are there any other options than dragonskin silicone?)

And for the allergies, I actually am allergic to latex haha, I was hoping that if I put something in between the tail and I, I wouldn't have any reactions to it at all, or if I coated the latex in something.

[Yulia]

Well I think it's so that Latex degrades over time. Dries out and become brittle or something. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

[Triton-Mahtlinnie]

Latex is more susceptible to UV damage as well, so time in direct sunlight will shorten it's lifespan. Especially latex left unpainted. Latex is also more mold-prone than silicone. I think the main benefit of latex is that it is easier to work with (no worrying about cure inhibition), and it's much cheaper than silicone. For someone who is pretty broke (like me) I think it's still a good way to have a realistic tail without breaking the bank.

Speaking specifically of the Melissa tail that was for sale, I think any tail of that age will require touch-ups and work of some kind. Didn't MVD stop making latex tails a few years ago?

[Mermaid Momo]

I'm really worried about the sun damage it could get since I live in a desert that gets tons and tons of sun.

[Triton-Mahtlinnie]

I think the key with anything made of latex is to use it, clean it, then immediately store it in a dark, dry place until the next use to try and extend the lifespan. The unpainted parts of my tail cracked and turned gummy because I had a habit of leaving my tail laying outside over the summer, tho the painted parts are still fine.

[Lily]

And for the allergies, I actually am allergic to latex haha, I was hoping that if I put something in between the tail and I, I wouldn't have any reactions to it at all, or if I coated the latex in something.

If you're allergic to latex, I would definitely NOT recommend you make a tail out of latex. Even if you coat it with something (sealant, fabric backing, etc) that will degrade over time and you'll be left with latex in contact with your skin.

Dragonskin is usually recommended for tails because (1) Smooth-on's knowledge base and customer service are amazing and (2) it's very soft and comfortable against the skin while still being strong enough to swim in without it falling apart. Being platinum-cure, it's also skin safe, whereas cheaper tin-cure and RTV silicones are not. I've worked with both tin-cure and RTV silicones before and there's no comparison. Dragonskin is expensive but in my opinion it's completely worth the extra cost.

[MermaidRiver]

If you're allergic to latex, I would definitely NOT recommend you make a tail out of latex. Even if you coat it with something (sealant, fabric backing, etc) that will degrade over time and you'll be left with latex in contact with your skin.

Dragonskin is usually recommended for tails because (1) Smooth-on's knowledge base and customer service are amazing and (2) it's very soft and comfortable against the skin while still being strong enough to swim in without it falling apart. Being platinum-cure, it's also skin safe, whereas cheaper tin-cure and RTV silicones are not. I've worked with both tin-cure and RTV silicones before and there's no comparison. Dragonskin is expensive but in my opinion it's completely worth the extra cost.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree that dragon skin is the only suitable option for making a tail. I feel like sometimes on this site people make out like dragon skin is the only type of platinum cure silicone. Dragon skin is a brand of platinum cure (also called addition cure) silicone. There are lots of other brands of silicone that are just less used in this community. It doesn't mean they aren't any good. It's like when you buy a chocolate bar just because Cadburys is the best known doesn't mean the super market own brand stuff tastes bad. Look around and you might find you can afford to make a tail out of silicone. IMO as long as you stick with platinum cure your tail will come out great.

However I do agree that if you are allergic to latex to stay away from it. Which could be a problem if you plan to do parties because you'll have to make sure non of the kids have latex allergies before hand.


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[PearlieMae]

Links to alternate suppliers of platinum-cure silicone would be most welcome, especially European suppliers.

I trust Smooth On, and have a professional relationship with them. I know what I will be getting when I order from them, that the product will be fresh (yes, silicone has a relatively short shelf life), and many suppliers actually buy their silicone from Smooth On and label it privately. I've been to their facilities, seen their operations, and I wouldn't go anywhere else. Brand loyalty? You bet! Hollywood depends on Smooth On for special effects supplies (The Walking Dead set has a Smooth On truck that pulls up every day so everyone can get their zombie on! And that's just one client!) They do it right, and have proven themselves to me.

As for latex allergies, I've seen people go into shock from one latex glove. If you have an allergy, no amount of coating it will be safe, and I wouldn't want the liability of harming anyone else with a latex allergy. Platinum-cure silicone is inert, and silicone allergies are extremely rare.

[Lily]

I've been to their facilities, seen their operations, and I wouldn't go anywhere else. Brand loyalty? You bet!

OMG Pearlie a visit to Smooth-On sounds like art nerd heaven. (I'd also love a visit to the Gamblin HQ, but I'd probably have a heart attack. Same with the Jelly Belly factory, but for different reasons ;) )

@MermaidRiver, I'm sorry if I came off like some sort of silicone snob. Pearlie put it much more eloquently than I did - Smooth-On is a trusted name with ages of experience and practical use behind it, so you know what you're getting and that it's safe. Draggersprez is of course welcome to use whatever brand of silicone she would like, but personally I <3 Dragonskin too much to feel comfortable recommending other brands.

(Also I have to respectfully disagree with you about Cadbury vs store brand. Once you've had amazing chocolate, the store brand just isn't the same! Yes, it's good, but not as good​. There's a place near me called Moonstruck that has completely ruined other chocolate for me. I dream about the stuff. It's amazing.)

[MermaidRiver]

@Lily please don't feel like it was a personal attack on you it was more of a generalisation that other brands of silicone don't really get mentioned. For me buying dragon skin isn't really an option the only place i could get dragon skin from it costs £170 a gallon (without shipping) which is £50 more than in the states. If I lived in the U.S. I probably would use dragon skin. But OMG dreams about chocolate i whish my dreams were as nice as that!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PearlieMae]

I hope it didn't sound like a personal attack, either, just voicing my opinions on Dragon Skin.

and as for chocolate, I now regret that for a time I pursued fine chocolate tasting as a hobby, and now I've ruined myself for easily obtainable, decent chocolate. "how are you going to keep them down on the farm now that they've seen 'Paree'?"

[Lily]

@Mermaid River - Nah, we're cool. It's just so hard to tell tone over Teh Interwebs!

@Pearlie - Come visit me in Portland and we shall pursue delicious chocolate, and then mess with boaters by swimming down the Willamette.

@draggersprez - Sorry for threadjacking! I've been looking around online and haven't found any platinum cure silicones that are cheaper than Dragonskin yet but I will keep looking!

[Mermaid Fenicia]

For the best chocolate you have to visit Belgium ;)

[MermaidRiver]

MermaidFencia totally have to agree with you there when I went to Belgium I had the NICEST hot chocolate I have ever had and I am not a massive fan of hot chocolate but would totally go back just to drink some more of that.

draggersprez if you do want a cheaper alternative to dragon skin this site might be reasonable (just remember they like to trick you by not including the VAT in the price) and the shipping to America is surprisingly reasonable.
http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/products/silicone/addition-cure-mould-making-silicone-rubber-rtv.aspx?LineItemId=64c22101-1cf7-4c6f-a457-393b632ad194
And if you want one tip trying to find dragon skin alternatives use the search term addition cure because from what I've found more companies seem to use that than platinum cure.


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[Mermaid Galene]

Did someone mention chocolate??? :drool: The only way I will let 3M send my mertender/hubby to Belgium again for business is if he once again packs his return suitcase with fresh Belgian chocolate.

Then again, chocolate covered macadamia nuts picked up fresh in Hawaii (with me)...

End of thread derailment. I have to go raid the pantry now...

[Mermaid Momo]

What is the hardness of the silicone that is best for tails? I see that smooth-on offers other platinum cure silicones but they say things like "super soft" or "soft" I know softness is wanted in a tail but how soft is too soft?

[PearlieMae]

Dragonskin 10 has a shore hardness of 10, and Dragonskin FX has a hardness of one or two...it's super soft for facial prosthetics, like aging masks, wounds, etc. I would think that would be too soft for a tail.

[Prairie Mermaid Jamie]

Apologies in advance for the massive text

As someone who has a family member allergic to latex I can tell you even being in the same room as any latex products, even if the latex isnt there anymore, can be life threatening. Being allergic yourself, stay away from it. Theres a reason they dont use latex gloves at hospitals anymore.

Making a tail out of it may be cheaper, but you will get what you pay for. Even if you had a latex tail and the kids you were around arent allergic, that residue can remain in the change rooms and various other things. Ive been wearing and working with latex for almost a decade for my modelling, and I have to be extremely careful where I bring it and what it touches. It is all kept wrapped in cloth and in plastic bags in my office, which is always locked. if I take it out, even in the bag it bothers my brother when he visits. Im not allergic and it bothers my skin to wear it for long periods. Even people with hayfever will be sensitive because latex comes from trees.

Latex can be formed in smooth flat sheets or painted on which makes it rougher. Latex is very flexible in thin sheets, but for what youd need for a tail it would end up stiffer. Latex can last for years if you care for it properly, but its a water based product. It wont last forever. It dries out or gets gummy and slimy.
I have a latex outfit thats in the same condition it was when I bought it 6 years ago. I also have another that is close to falling apart after only 2 years. Its not just upkeep, but the way its made.

I feel your pain with expensive silicone. Its 250 CAD per 1 gallon kit and we can only get it here 4 months of the year. Because of the allergy issue and the fact that I wanted to use it in public places, I opted for silicone. It just felt like the safest option.

Dragonskin brand silicone is like the bandaids of adhesive strips.

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