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AniaR
03-24-2015, 06:24 PM
Hey all, I have been doing Market research into all the main fabric tail makers. Trying to decide who would be the best and most affordable/reliable for my company to do a large order with. In my journey I came across
"Swimtails"
Wondering if anyone has heard of them? They seem really new and I can't find much info yet. Just curious if anyone has insider knowledge and happens to know the owners or anything like that ;)

FB: https://www.facebook.com/swimtails/timeline

Website:
http://www.swimtails.com/

thanks~

Merfin_Aurora_Oceania
03-24-2015, 09:07 PM
Have you tried dialing their main number Raina? It looks like a pretty professional website.

AniaR
03-24-2015, 09:09 PM
Im looking for community references...

Mermaid Mystery
03-24-2015, 09:13 PM
I've talked to them a bit! Still don't know much about them, though.


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PearlieMae
04-05-2015, 09:40 PM
I just saw where they've ripped off Lotus_Blossom's tail design! Looks like Arion said something that they replied to (replied to me too) on instagram saying they came up with it on their own.

Swimtails:
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Lotus' design:
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I'M FURIOUS!

Lorelei
04-05-2015, 10:27 PM
Abby of Finfolk posted this morning about their Dory design being taken as well (it has since been taken down, but they are still apparently claiming that it wasn't copied from Finfolk. Ridiculous lie). So sad to see hard work taken this way.
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PearlieMae
04-05-2015, 10:34 PM
They just messaged me on Pinterest saying they have no idea what I'm talking about or who I am.

Mermaid Mystery
04-05-2015, 10:35 PM
to be fair, I'm not defending anyone here, but the "Dory" design is an actual fish, the blue tang.


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Elodea the Mermaid
04-05-2015, 10:41 PM
They just added a full-body clownfish design. I'm sure I've seen that design swim before. A clownfish is obviously something reasonable to draw inspiration from, but the full body thing is unique and I'm sure I've seen it it made by a mer before...

Mermaid Mystery
04-05-2015, 10:42 PM
Stella the Siren I think, hers looked like a full body tail but it was a full body swimsuit worn under her tail. unless you've seen others?


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Elodea the Mermaid
04-05-2015, 10:43 PM
Ahh.. I think that's where I've seen it. I feel silly now, lol.

Mer-Crazy
04-05-2015, 10:46 PM
Debating whether they took Raven's Clown Fish design as well or just made a clown fish tail. I guess they look different enough in the subtle ways you can make clownfish look different. It's not as blatantly obvious of a copy as Finfolks or Pearlie's/ Lotus'. On that note I think they deleted Arion's comment because I can't see it. I did comment, which I beleive got me promptly banned as I now can't see any of their photos :lol:

Elle
04-05-2015, 10:46 PM
Also I think everyone is so familiar with Raven's clownfish tail, that's what my brain thought of straight away.

PearlieMae
04-05-2015, 10:48 PM
to be fair, I'm not defending anyone here, but the "Dory" design is an actual fish, the blue tang.


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It's one thing to be inspired by a fish/flower/insect, but this is a blue tang. The design above is a direct ripoff of the Finfolk tail.
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PearlieMae
04-05-2015, 10:49 PM
Now I've got a back and forth going on pinterest.

Mer-Crazy
04-05-2015, 10:50 PM
You kick their ass Pealie! I'd love to see that conversation haha.

Mer-Crazy
04-05-2015, 10:53 PM
Yeah they blocked me and deleted my comment haha (she finds out by stalking them via private instagram rather than mermaid one mwahaha.)

Elle
04-05-2015, 10:59 PM
The fact is they're obviously looking at other tails for some of the designs they have put out. ie, the lotus tail, the blue tang tail. and then there are the obvious things like their moon pool tail (I think most of us recognise a mako tail when we see one) and the Electric neon merman from their instagram is obviously copied the male tail from the same series.

and just to be knitpicky you look at the fluke shapes and some of them are very similar of the standard merbellas fluke...I know fluke shape is a hard one to fault because there are only so many ways to go with it, and the fact that the well know tail makers keep pumping them out means the pool is getting smaller.

PearlieMae
04-05-2015, 11:03 PM
They've just deleted all the comments on the lotus tail on pinterest...And I didn't get screenshots!

PS: I'm blocked from their instagram now, too.

Seraphina Suds
04-05-2015, 11:23 PM
Go get 'em, Pearlie!

Elle
04-05-2015, 11:24 PM
Yeah, they've been looking into mermaid related stuff on pinterest since August last year. As far as community related stuff that I recognise there are Mermaid Cydney's shell bras and FreshWater Mermaid's leg/thigh scale tattoo.

So to go from them to find out about Mernetwork and well known tailmakers is not a big stretch. Particularly since the 'company' has only been around since January.

Mermaid Mystery
04-05-2015, 11:25 PM
okay but magictail also has an "h2o" tail


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Mermaid Mystery
04-05-2015, 11:26 PM
I'm just saying, some of these are common designs, some are fish, some are direct copies.


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Mermaid Pickles
04-05-2015, 11:27 PM
GET'EM PEARLIE

Mermaid Kelda
04-05-2015, 11:33 PM
To be fair, the lotus design has been done before, e.g. by Lilium:
http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?4870-Ok-so-it-was-suggested-I-post-my-designs-(image-heavy)&p=70854&viewfull=1#post70854

But, yeah, coupled with other designs that have come out recently from tail makers, it doesn't seem like they have many original ideas...

PearlieMae
04-06-2015, 12:20 AM
yes, I've spoken to Lilium about her flower tail designs, but this particular instance there are details that could not have been more blatantly stolen. Now they've disappeared off of Instagram, Facebook, and their website.

Mer-Crazy
04-06-2015, 12:23 AM
Well I can still see them on everything :/

PearlieMae
04-06-2015, 12:29 AM
really? Evidently I've been blocked! Screenshots would be greatly appreciated.

Mermaid Mystery
04-06-2015, 12:33 AM
while we are on the subject, some of these designs are actually really cool! I love the shark attack and the bird tails! I'd just like to say some of the ideas are cool and not all tails are unoriginal


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Mermaid Pickles
04-06-2015, 12:45 AM
Drat Pearlie, but that goes to show that they're being really rather unprofessional and makes me question them even more.

Mer-Crazy
04-06-2015, 12:51 AM
Whilst I understand wanting to delete harassing/ unnecessary comments... I think deleting and blocking those who simply point out that YOU COPIED SOMEONE! Is indeed 'unprofessional'.

I can't even remember what I wrote now. Something like 'wow you did a great job copying Pearlie Mae's/ Lotus Blooming's design'

On that note how would they even block you from a website?!

Lotus the Mermaid
04-06-2015, 12:51 AM
I'm messaging them about it now, and they've been pretty rude. I understand that a lotus flower is present in nature, and yes, it's possible for them to have gotten the idea independently - even as a mermaid tail. But I'm pretty upset.
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Mer-Crazy
04-06-2015, 12:56 AM
Can we make a tail maker bitch list? Since they haven't done anything like steal someone's money so they can't be 'black-listed' so we just but them on the Bitch List, which is basically a list for Tail Makers who have no imagination and copy other people's work. Or perhaps a better word could be used in it's place haha.

Ashe
04-06-2015, 01:00 AM
As much drama as that would create and the fact that it will likely never happen... Seconded

Lotus the Mermaid
04-06-2015, 01:03 AM
I agree. They're just plain rude, too, so sadly, I think they've earned that title. :1

Seraphina Suds
04-06-2015, 01:21 AM
I'd be more inclined to believe they weren't copying Lotus if they had other flower based designs. A lot of their other tails seem to come in sets or pairs if similar looks.

Lotus the Mermaid
04-06-2015, 01:28 AM
Glad to have finished this convo. They're just really rude. I tried to be as nice as possible. :<

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Mermaid Mystery
04-06-2015, 01:36 AM
wow! although it is a flower and it's possible that they could've come up with it on their own, that was ridiculous and unnecessarily rude! I would have a better time believeing them if it weren't for them getting so defensive and such.


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Lotus the Mermaid
04-06-2015, 02:04 AM
wow! although it is a flower and it's possible that they could've come up with it on their own, that was ridiculous and unnecessarily rude! I would have a better time believeing them if it weren't for them getting so defensive and such.


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That's what I was thinking, too. :1

Starfrit
04-06-2015, 03:32 AM
to be fair, I'm not defending anyone here, but the "Dory" design is an actual fish, the blue tang.

[...]

I'm just saying, some of these are common designs, some are fish, some are direct copies.

HOLD IT!

http://i.imgur.com/kBKuquB.jpg

While I understand that Blue Tangs/"Dory" fish are real creatures and you can't necessarily copyright a design, I have to side with Pearlie-- That design is, almost line-for-line, a direct ripoff of Finfolk's tail.

Let's discuss this, for a minute.

(DISCLAIMER: MermaidOfTheLabyrinth, please don't take this as an attack on anything you've said here, as I totally get where you're coming from and what you're saying! This is just something I've been mulling over as I read this thread and figured this would be a good spot to lay it all out.

Plus, I'm kind of hungover and Phoenix Wright references are rocking my night right now.)

SLEEP-DEPRIVED AND HILARIOUSLY HUNGOVER ARTISTIC ANALYSIS TIME:

http://i.minus.com/i6rq7TUJMYX9M.gif


Here's Our Subject: Paracanthurus Hepatus, AKA the Blue Tang, AKA "Dory From Finding Nemo"

http://www.educationalresource.info/tropical-marine-fish/blue-tang.jpg

Pretty straight forward. Blue body, yellow caudal fin, black body markings and "outlining" throughout. Black body marking has a blue spot towards the front and the pectoral fins are mostly blue towards the body going to yellow and black at the tips.

Pretty straightforward, easy enough to map out on a mermaid tail as it's not exactly a complicated design-- That said, there is still a lot of room for interpretation and different makers are likely to have variations in their designs when they're making tails based off of a specific species; we see that all the time.

So What Happened Here?

First, let's address the "Original"* tail-- Finfolk Productions' Blue Tang:
(*please note that the quotes around "Original" are only used in the context of this tail being produced before SwimTails)

http://i.imgur.com/gN6b0xM.png


Now, we could go on at length here about the similarities between the tail's design and the real fish, but that's pretty straightforward-- Similar shades of blue and yellow, black markings and outlines along the sides of the caudal and dorsal fins, yadda-yadda. It's very obviously a Blue Tang and Finfolk did an excellent job translating that to a mermaid tail, as we can all agree. And if you don't agree, then y'all can sit there in your wrongness and be wrong and live your sad wrong life for the rest of wrongternity, but I digress.

But here's the important part: Where do the artistic liberties come in?

Let me preface this by explaining that what I mean by artistic liberties is, where did Abby and Bryn alter the overall design to stray away from the natural patternings and design of the Blue Tang to make it more their own, while still staying true to their inspiration? As closely as tailmakers will try to represent marine critters in real life, everyone will always take artistic liberties; some will veer more off of the design, others will try to stay as obsessively close as possible; but when looking at a photograph of a fish to design a tail off of it, every maker will interpret certain aspects differently.

Also, please note that although I believe it was Finfolk's commissioner who designed this tail initially, I'll be referring to Finfolk as the designer for the sake of the argument.

So here's what's immediately obvious, referring back to the colored circles in the picture above:

[B]Red: The Blue Spot.

To start this one off, let's bring that beautiful Blue Tang motherflipper back in here for a sec.

http://www.educationalresource.info/tropical-marine-fish/blue-tang.jpg

The blue spot that I'm referring to is the oval-shaped one in the center of the body's black patch; what did the designer(s) of the Finfolk tail take liberties on?

I'd like to call attention to the direction of the blue spot; notice on the Finfolk tail that the spot is running horizontally, across the body of the tail. Meanwhile, if the Blue Tang fish were laid parallel to the Finfolk tail, we'd see that the dot runs vertically, along the length of the body. This isn't really a common artistic interpretation, mermaid tail or not, that we see with Blue Tangs, so we can assume that this quirk is unique to Finfolk.

Orange: The Back.

Let's refer back to the Blue Tang photo again; notice that the only blue on the back/topside of this fish is on the face, crest of the head, and the dorsal fin. The black runs straight along the back on either side of the dorsal.

Meanwhile, on Finfolk's: The blue is not only on the dorsal fin, but actually makes up the majority of the back of the tail; the black lines we see are in more of a wavy, flowy design that isn't present on the Blue Tang (this doesn't just apply to the back of the tail; the same can be said for the underside as well)-- and in fact, the black marking on the "calf" area of the tail doesn't even connect to anything on the side, it tapers off to a point. Also not present on the Blue Tang. So we can pretty safely conclude that this is another liberty taken by Finfolk.

Yellow: The Pectoral Fins.

Since the above photo of the Blue Tang doesn't clearly show the pectoral fins, let's grab another photo because Google Images has everything:

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What do we notice? Ignoring the translucent section of the fin along the outer edge, there's a yellow spot towards the upper point of the tip, a black stripe along the top edge of the fin, and then the rest is blue leading to the attachment point at the Tang's body.

What does Finfolk's look like?

http://i.imgur.com/QvhbeKb.png

Personal opinion? Almost totally different.

Not only does the yellow spot take up the full outer edge of the fin as opposed to the tip, it takes up more than half of the entire fin. The black stripe isn't anywhere handy to where it actually is on the Blue Tang; it's not tracing the top edge of the fin, it's tracing the yellow spot and separating it from the blue. Clearly, another liberty on behalf on Finfolk.

Yellow Part 2: Aquatic Boogaloo.

Yes, there's more to the caudal fins than the markings. Look at the Blue Tang photo again. Notice where the caudal fins are? They are in front of the black lines outlining the blue spot.

Know where they are on Finfolk's tail? Behind those lines. This is important for later.

Green: Colors, Colors Everywhere, and Not a Drop to... Wait. What?

Referring back to the fullbody photograph above of the Blue Tang, look at how much of the black area separates the inner point of the caudal fin from the blue spot on the body; that's a lot of black, right? Excluding the length of the caudal fin, the amount of black between the yellow and the blue spot makes up approximately 1/4 of the fish's body length. So to answer that previous question: Yes, that's a lot of black.

So it's interesting that there's so little of it separating it on the Finfolk tail; only a tenth of the body (again, excluding the fluke's) length as opposed to 1/4. That's a pretty noticeable liberty to take.

Blue: The Fluke's Edge.

Look at the Blue Tang. Now back to Finfolk. Now back to the Blue Tang... Notice that the caudal fin has a black outline tracing the broad edge of the fin.

... Now back to Finfolk! That black outline isn't there.

In fact, that black outline is replaced by a color that isn't found on the Blue Tang at all, probably their biggest (and yet, somehow, most subtle) artistic liberty from the real deal-- It fades to white instead.

So that pretty much covers everything on Finfolk's tail.

What about SwimTail's Design?

Now that we've gone over Finfolk's tails and the artistic liberties that they took to separate it from the Blue Tang design, let's bring back that comparison image that Lorelei posted earlier:

http://mernetwork.com/index/attachment.php?attachmentid=28765&d=1428283649

Firstly, I won't be addressing the Orange Circle from the above diagram as there's no back-view of Swimtails' design. This is going purely off of the screencapture shown directly above.

Let's cut to the chase--

How Similar Is It To Finfolk's Tail?

1) Let's come back to the "Blue Spot" area at the top of the tail; just like Finfolk's, the spot comes out across the body instead of running along the length of the body.

2) Just like Finfolk's, the yellow on the pectoral fins takes up the majority of the fin and again, just like Finfolk's, the black line doesn't follow the top edge of the fin but separates the yellow from the blue.

3) The black separating the yellow fluke from the blue body is surprisingly small compared to on the actual Blue Tang; and not only that, the black lines going up the body are in that exact same wavy manner not found on the Blue Tang, right down to the semi-diamond shape near the fluke-end of the tail.

4) Just like Finfolk's, the fluke's edge is lacking that black outline-- and not only that, it fades to white exactly like Finfolk's design.

5) The pectoral fins are placed in exactly the same area as Finfolk's; underneath the blue spot, as opposed to in front of it.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140511231452/aceattorney/images/b/bf/3DThinkingSpeak.gif

One or two of these things looking similar, I could understand-- everyone has different quirks when translating nature to art in any form, but by that same token-- especially when you're working with the same general shape (in this instead, the limiting shape of a mermaid body/tail) certain things can only be taken so far and can potentially be a coincidence. But to have five of these artistic liberties almost 100% alike? No, that's not a coincidence. That's the red flag of a copycat.

In fact, of all of the liberties taken with this tail, Swimtails only has one thing about its design that's different from Finfolk's (besides the fluke shape, anyway, which is another matter I'm not going to get into): The sides of the calf-portion of the tail are solid black, as opposed to blue. So they've got that going for them, I suppose.

https://mlpchan.net/rp/src/1398040337151.gif

I think given my analysis above, it's safe to conclude that playing Devil's Advocate for Swimtails isn't necessary*-- It's impossible for them to have almost identically replicated Finfolk's tail, without having done so deliberately.

And with that, I rest my case.

*Not that there's anything wrong with playing Devil's Advocate! I find doing that is a pretty healthy tactic in discussions like these, where all parties can use it to determine the situation from different angles and help come to a more reasonable conclusion and avoid dogpiling a potentially innocent person.

Starfrit
04-06-2015, 03:33 AM
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/aceattorney/images/9/90/DD_Phoenix_Shocked.gif/revision/latest?cb=20140827210834

Oh god that was so long I'm so sorry, please don't be mad at me. ;-; I may have gotten a little carried away with that analysis, oops.

merkitty
04-06-2015, 03:44 AM
That was.... glorious. [emoji79] [emoji122] [emoji122] [emoji122]

Edit: change from amazing to glorious because oh it was.

Mermaid Mystery
04-06-2015, 04:02 AM
I totally see where you're coming from and I see the same thing. A+ for gif usage


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Mermaid Mystery
04-06-2015, 04:08 AM
another thing to note is the space between the veins in the fluke and the scale shape, which are as identical as can be


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Starfrit
04-06-2015, 04:38 AM
That was.... glorious. [emoji79] [emoji122] [emoji122] [emoji122]

http://abload.de/img/hehe3sjll.gif

I try my best. Though I tend to overthink these things, sometimes...



another thing to note is the space between the veins in the fluke and the scale shape, which are as identical as can be

I noticed that too! Mostly I opted to avoid addressing similarities in the fluke and scale shapes between the two tails since I was more focused on the Blue Tang design itself than the tail's construction (especially where Swimtails' is only a drawing at this stage and it seemed unfair to put them on blast for that aspect when they don't have a physical tail made with this design yet.)

theredknight100
04-06-2015, 05:46 AM
its odd I find thare tails amazing and they seem friendly they even fallowd me on twtter too at but reading all this comments and looking at the compareing im not so sure they are safe since they are stealing tail designs :( plus im worred im next if my tail design gets out

PearlieMae
04-06-2015, 08:35 AM
Awesome, Tieri! I love your in-depth analysis!

In reference to the lotus tail, it's a lot more subtle, but definite design elements are copied directly.

Lotus' initial design has a definite swirl pattern down the body of the tail. Swimtails has used a leaf texture in their image, whose center rib follows the same line as Lotus Blossom's original design.

Also, the interpretation of the flower/fluke nearly identical as far as shape and proportion. Lilium, who designed a lotus-themed tail previously, used the lotus flower as her interpretation, but is decidedly different in her version. Also, Lillium had designed her tail in 2013, Lotus Blossom in 2014, and Swimtails had marked theirs with a copyright (©) 2015.

Like I said before, you can knock off a garment once it's produced, but Swimtails is offering a tail for production from an original DESIGN that was created by Lotus Blossom. That's where the theft of intellectual property comes in.

Swimtails
04-06-2015, 12:49 PM
Hello All , This is Ryan, owner of Swimtails, I see that there is a vibrant debate about our company and I feel it fair to join in

Lets Begin with the Dory Tail.
I was alerted yesterday morning of a design descrpancy regarding FinFolks Dory Tail, When I was made aware of this, I removed the tail from all of my sites and repremanded the designer. I also spoke with Abby, the owner of FinFolk directly on the phone and we came to an amicable agreement

As for the Lotus Tail, Our design was 100% NOT in any way inspired by anything but the Lotus Flower. Just because somebody made similar design and posted it to a forum, does not entitle them to intellectual rights to our idea.

When we were alerted that we "copied" her lotus tail, we searched and could not find her drawing, she had to send us a copy. In fact we just joined the Forum today after finding out that PearlieMae was making awful claims about us from one of our fans

So the question becomes this: Are we allowed to create tails based on fish that another designer had previously done?
Are fish copyrighted? Is it a "I did it first" mentality.?

PearlieMae, do you belive that your Lotus design was te first and only rendetion of a mermaid flower tail. I can assure you it is not. I have found in my research serveral other "lotus-like" mermaid tail dsigns that re-date your own.

Gee that kinda felt like a trial that we were not invited to, may we respond?

Hey PearlieMae (http://mernetwork.com/index/member.php?2579-PearlieMae), we did NOT rip off this design, we designed this with the inspiration of the Lotus Flower. Your drawing is not available to find on any search engines, nor is it an actual product that has been produced. How could we have possibly stolen this design?

Thank you for your kind comments. We get asked and sent pictures of drawings and snapshots of different fish ie. Lion fish, mandarin, dory/tang. People LOVE mermaids especially children which we get designs from all day. They all like to draw images for ideas for there next tail. We are learning now that we need to be very careful about designs that are out there already. We do not want a bad name. We want to supply the community nice fabric tails at a fair price. We are not offering silicone only fabric. So these tails would never be the same anyway.

Mermaid Selene, we removed PearlieMae's responses because of the accusatory nature of her messages. The Lotus flower tail was NOT designed based on her drawing. Just because she drew it first, does not give a right to accuse us and slander us. There are billions of people, millions of artists and thousands of mermaid artists, What are the odds of there being legitamtely simialr designs? I have spoken to the owners of a few major mermaid tail companies and they have assured me that they get accused of stealing designs too. One owner I spoke to confided that she designed a tail that she thought someone else ripped off because of the similarity, in fact that other designer had made their tail first.

PearlieMae
04-06-2015, 01:15 PM
Wow, you sure do like to throw around the slander word.

There are too many precise similarities (like the Dory tail) between your design and Lotus Blossom's design to believe it to be coincidental, in my opinion. If you had several flower design tails, and weren't so immediately defensive, I would be willing to believe that it was the universe coming together to show how great minds think alike. After your exchange with Lotus, I'm inclined to think that somehow you actually DID see her design.

And as for not responding, I don't live on the forum and just got out of a doctor's appointment.

Swimtails
04-06-2015, 01:23 PM
PearlieMae, your first mesage to us was "You have Stolen Intellectual Property" you went on to threaten us with a lawsuit. Again the Dory Tail was a mistake made that was resolved drectly with Abby from Finfolk. A designer was fired for this instance. However that does not mean that the lotus tail was copied. FinFolk's Dory Tail is an actual product that was been produced and purchased and is widely known. Your drawing of a lotus like tail is not widely published so we could have not even known it existed . Wishing you health at your Dr. App

PearlieMae
04-06-2015, 01:23 PM
Also, because the drawing didn't show up in your internet search of images doesn't mean you don't have access to the forum.

And the design in question doesn't belong to me, but a Mernetwork forum member, with whom you've had a lengthy exchange.

Swimtails
04-06-2015, 01:23 PM
None of our comments have been rude. This is why we had to block people from our instagram. Everything was an accusation. You and pearlie came at us very harsh

We have just signed up to the forum this morning, you can check for yourself PearlieMae

no way we could have seen that drawing, its not accessible unless you are a member of this com, even then, I would have to dig around for it, I still havent found it, only have an image that was sent to me directly

I can assure you theredknight100 (http://mernetwork.com/index/member.php?4144-theredknight100) that we are not out to steal anyones's designs. We are all part of a greater community of creative artists, if there are ever similarties, you can reach out to us directly. We have enough imagination to fill a room and don't need to steal. the Dory fin was a mistake that we owned up to, I had to fire one of my best designers becaouse of that. I also had a long conversation with Abby from FinFolk and we are on good terms. As for the lotus flower design, I KNOW that this is not in anyway inspired from PearlieMAe, because I created it myself

AniaR
04-06-2015, 01:37 PM
Please make all your posts in ONE post.

Here's the deal.

I started this thread.

I have 3 mermaid companies. www.halifaxmermaids.com www.atlanticmermaids.com and www.canadianmermaids.com and if the mernetwork members will let me toot my own horn here for a second, I'm one of the more well known mermaids with 32,000+ followers on facebook and a huge client base.

We're up for a $10,000 business grant so I have been researching who I can give my constant business to for fabric tail makers. We plan on buying a bulk order of tails to rent, and we want to get in touch with someone about being official resellers. So I have been contacting all the fabric tail makers online. THERE IS ONLY ONE FABRIC TAIL COMPANY IN CANADA AND THEY DO NOT FILL THE DEMAND. So there is a huge market here.

So for me, a well known, well versed, large company and potential client...

THIS DOES NOT LOOK GOOD TO ME. I have made LOADS of posts on mernetwork over the past 5 years about the issues of ripping off other tail makers. I refuse to support any company that does it. I have blacklisted loads of people. And it MAKES A DIFFERENCE. As a very well known mermaid I am asked at least 10 times a day "do you recommend ____?" on here, on facebook, on twitter, on instagram, on youtube, and on our website. YOU DO NOT WANT SOMEONE LIKE ME SAYING NO I DONT RECOMMEND THESE PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY STEAL TAIL DESIGNS... BECAUSE YOUR POTENTIAL CLIENTS WILL LISTEN TO ME.

So here is the deal. You've been researching the mer-community. You've come into it and your first official acts as a company have been to alienate a huge portion of your market.

The good thing for you? YOU STILL HAVE TIME TO FIX IT.

Instead of joining mernetwork and acting INCREDIBLY UNPROFESSIONAL and arguing with people (FYI this forum is for discussing anything in the mermaid world and most especially tail makers. So get used to it) and ruining your reputation before your business has even gotten off the ground... (cuz I promise you mermaids are like elephants... we NEVER forget)

Simply remove the designs, move forward, and never copy someone else again. If you take inspiration from someone else's design simply message them and say "hey, we'd love to have your permission to do a version of your design". THE COMMUNITY AND YOUR CLIENT BASE LOVE TAIL MAKERS WHO GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO BE FAIR TO THE COMMUNITY AND THOSE TAIL MAKERS GET MORE BUSINESS AND ARE SPOKEN HIGHLY OF.

You have a REAL chance here! Do you realize how awesome people will think you are if you just take accountability and do the right thing and move forward into the future? WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES I get it. And you may not have realized how big of a deal this is to people. Tail designs are so personal and people put so much of themselves into it.

So those are your options at the moment:

1.Recognize you just made a big mistake in the community, even if you dont feel like you did you have to at least recognize that by community standards you did. Maybe you were ignorant to that, maybe you weren't. It doens't matter. Just recognize you made a mistake, pull the designs, be sure to change how you do things in the future, and people will respect you for it and recognize you as a tail maker with standards who are willing to own up when they mess up. And they'll give you a chance.

2. Or, you can argue, lie, defend, play the ignorance card, AND THE COMMUNITY WILL NEVER FORGET YOU DID THAT AND MAKE IT THEIR MISSION TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE KNOWS IT. I guarantee you it'll affect your business and reputation.


It's not a threat, it is just what happens! If you don't believe me you should look up the companies that have been black listed. Guess what? They're all bankrupt with horrible reputations.

You seemed so eager to be my tail providers! But I can't in good conscious give loads of business and money to a company that has stolen designs from my friends, and come on our forum and insulted them. You may not care about my personal business. But you'll care about what I and others have to say about it :(

So please, reconsider all of this. Take some time. Think on it. YOU HAVE EVERYTHING TO GAIN AND EVERYTHING TO LOSE.

Merman Arion
04-06-2015, 01:49 PM
@Swimtails

You blocked me on Instagram because I defended Finfolk Productions who are my tailmakers and stated the truth.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm done with you.

Swimtails
04-06-2015, 01:55 PM
We want to fix this.

Dancing Fish
04-06-2015, 01:56 PM
I had a post similar to what Raina was about to say, but she's said it much better.

I have no pony in this race and I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on the lotus tail, but the clearly copied Dory tail was what swung it for me. It looks really bad. I'd say it would be your best bet to just let the lotus design issue go, at this point, as a gesture of goodwill. If you've got a team of creative designers then you'll have no problems coming up with tons of other awesome original ideas.

Swimtails
04-06-2015, 02:02 PM
I agree this is getting way out of hand and we would like to speak with Pearlie Mae to fix this problem ASAP I gave her our private number.

AniaR
04-06-2015, 02:08 PM
There's really nothing to discuss. Drop the design, move on. It's really simple.

Mermaid Coralia
04-06-2015, 02:10 PM
I agree with Raina and Ashmorelj. Maybe even just take the lotus design down, re-do it. and re-post it. What really made me not like the company was how harshly and rudely you responded to your possible clients. I get that most of the comments were accusatory, and some rude, but you are a BUSINESS and therefor in my eyes have zero right to even act so unprofessional and respond that way. I get that being accused of something you don't think you did triggers a reaction to lash out and defend yourself, which is fine. It's HOW you defended yourself that I have a problem with. The Tang tail was an obvious rip off, and you owned up to it and made amends. The lotus tail Is less obvious, but it looks like at the very least, whoever designed it took inspiration from that. You could have just put in the picture "inspired by Lotus Blooming", and been done with it. Who would that hurt anyway? Your customers will think you honest, and you would have patched any holes you made. Now, I'm all for second chances, but the people here in the mer community take a little effort to get back on their good side. I hope we can all come to a good conclusion.

Swimtails
04-06-2015, 02:10 PM
We did. We lost this fight.

Swimtails
04-06-2015, 02:13 PM
We took it down. This has gotten way out of hand. Honestly though we never saw her design. From now on to be safe we will post new designs here first and make sure all the merfolk are cool with it. We are truly sorry we did not intent to upset or hurt anyone

AniaR
04-06-2015, 02:27 PM
The only thing out of hand is how you keep making a new post for every sentence. You don't need to do that! It's not an instant messaging service and makes it very hard to follow the thread. Please, keep it all in one post when you can.

I hope you'll take my advice to heart. it's not a matter of losing a battle. It's a matter of doing right by the community. You need to change that attitude if you want things to work with people. Take a break. Refresh yourself. And come back and look at it with new eyes. You have a chance to fill a big market. You just gotta be a little more familiar with the community. perhaps look around the forum it'll help you get to know it! Good luck.

PearlieMae
04-06-2015, 02:27 PM
I was alerted that there was a design on instagram that was a direct ripoff of the tail I was commissioned to do. I responded. I was blocked, my comments removed, and I responded in the appropriate thread on Mernetwork. There's is no need to talk privately on the phone.

Your design looks like an experienced designer would comp after having seen Lotus Blossom's original sketch. Simply because your company name didn't have an account here until today doesn't mean you don't have access to the myriad resources here. You'd be foolish to be a tailmaker and not be here. There are plenty of people who lurk.

PearlieMae
04-06-2015, 02:30 PM
Okay, seems things are settling down.

Peace, everyone! :meditation:

Swimtails
04-06-2015, 02:31 PM
We have removed out of courtesy. We honeslty never saw her design before. We are truly sorry. Do you suggest posting our new designer tails here first to get proper feedback from the mercommunity? Thanks for the advice

Swimtails
04-06-2015, 02:31 PM
Lotus love?

Swimtails
04-06-2015, 02:32 PM
Seriously call me I would like to speak with you

Merman Arion
04-06-2015, 02:34 PM
@swimtails

Do you even read messages??

Because you just have been told TWICE to stop making new posts for every sentence and they just keep on coming...

http://replygif.net/i/894.gif

Swimtails
04-06-2015, 02:37 PM
I'm am replying from my phone. Not sure how it works

Sherielle
04-06-2015, 02:39 PM
Are you on the Tapatalk app? If so, if you touch the post you are responding to, then select 'Quote', it will reference the post in quotes, along with your reply.

Swimtails
04-06-2015, 03:07 PM
Are you on the Tapatalk app? If so, if you touch the post you are responding to, then select 'Quote', it will reference the post in quotes, along with your reply.
Thanks did I do it right this time?

Mermaid Mystery
04-06-2015, 03:09 PM
yeah, you got it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Echidna
04-06-2015, 04:47 PM
We have removed out of courtesy. We honeslty never saw her design before. We are truly sorry. Do you suggest posting our new designer tails here first to get proper feedback from the mercommunity? Thanks for the advice

There is no need to do so if the design is truly yours, because most original designs do not resemble anything else so closely that there's going to be an uproar.

It's nice you took the design down, even if it's clearly just a reaction to Raina's compelling argument.
But I'll have you know I don't believe you haven't seen Lotus' design previously.

I have Tarot cards, see :p

Starfrit
04-06-2015, 04:47 PM
So the question becomes this: Are we allowed to create tails based on fish that another designer had previously done?
Are fish copyrighted? Is it a "I did it first" mentality.?

Ryan, I feel as though if you actually think that the question here becomes "Are we allowed to create tails based on fish someone has already done" then the entire point of this mess has flown so far over your head that the crew of the ISS just looked out the window and went "What the hell was that?"

Multiple designers and makers have all made tails based off of the same fish. We've seen this with Merbellas and Finfolk making Peacock Mantis Shrimp tails; Merbellas and Moo making lionfish tails, and I've lost count of how many people have designed and/or made tails based off of the Mandarin fish.

Nobody gives a damn whether two makers make a tail based off the same fish; it's nature, there's no copyright, yadda-yadda. You know why? Because each artist has their own interpretation of how to transfer details like this from one medium to another. If you'd bothered to read my analysis on Page 2 at all, you would have seen where I pointed out all of the very specific liberties that Finfolk chose for their Blue Tang tail to keep it true to the fish while still making it unique and their own; this included the addition of specific markings and colors that aren't present on the fish itself.

Your designer (Who I'm now intrigued about thanks to the intentionally vague distancing language you used when addressing their being "reprimanded") took ALL of these specific, unique twists to the design and ripped it off almost line. For. Line. And that's what people have a problem with.

Nobody's upset that you wanted to do a Blue Tang tail; they're upset because your designer couldn't be assed to do their flippin' job and plagiarized someone else's work. In artistic industries like this? That becomes a DANGEROUS liability for your company and people get fired INSTANTLY for that crap-- As your designer should have been.

And now, because of your employee choosing to steal someone else's design? Everything else your company produces is open to suspicion. Even if you didn't copy the Lotus design, the Blue Tang incident destroys a lot of your credibility, because to the outsider you've actively promoted stolen work once; who's to say you aren't doing it again?

If you want Swimtails to succeed, you need to learn to handle situations like this appropriately and as professionally as possible; which I personally feel you kind of dropped the ball on.

Mermaid Mystery
04-06-2015, 05:05 PM
and I've lost count of how many people have designed and/or made tails based off of the Mandarin fish.

*raises hand* ooh! ooh! pick me! pick me!


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Swimtails
04-06-2015, 05:10 PM
Ryan, I feel as though if you actually think that the question here becomes "Are we allowed to create tails based on fish someone has already done" then the entire point of this mess has flown so far over your head that the crew of the ISS just looked out the window and went "What the hell was that?"

Multiple designers and makers have all made tails based off of the same fish. We've seen this with Merbellas and Finfolk making Peacock Mantis Shrimp tails; Merbellas and Moo making lionfish tails, and I've lost count of how many people have designed and/or made tails based off of the Mandarin fish.

Nobody gives a damn whether two makers make a tail based off the same fish; it's nature, there's no copyright, yadda-yadda. You know why? Because each artist has their own interpretation of how to transfer details like this from one medium to another. If you'd bothered to read my analysis on Page 2 at all, you would have seen where I pointed out all of the very specific liberties that Finfolk chose for their Blue Tang tail to keep it true to the fish while still making it unique and their own; this included the addition of specific markings and colors that aren't present on the fish itself.

Your designer (Who I'm now intrigued about thanks to the intentionally vague distancing language you used when addressing their being "reprimanded") took ALL of these specific, unique twists to the design and ripped it off almost line. For. Line. And that's what people have a problem with.

Nobody's upset that you wanted to do a Blue Tang tail; they're upset because your designer couldn't be assed to do their flippin' job and plagiarized someone else's work. In artistic industries like this? That becomes a DANGEROUS liability for your company and people get fired INSTANTLY for that crap-- As your designer should have been.

And now, because of your employee choosing to steal someone else's design? Everything else your company produces is open to suspicion. Even if you didn't copy the Lotus design, the Blue Tang incident destroys a lot of your credibility, because to the outsider you've actively promoted stolen work once; who's to say you aren't doing it again?

If you want Swimtails to succeed, you need to learn to handle situations like this appropriately and as professionally as possible; which I personally feel you kind of dropped the ball on.

The Blue Tang incident was a miscommuncation and a mistake, We did have to terminate our designers employment becouse of this, although I ultimately take the blame and have spoken with the owners of FinFolk to make amends. Please consider that we never produced or sold any of those tails, it was purely a concept as many of our designs are at this stage.

I am trying to learn and grow from this experience. I am torn about the best way to avoid situations like the Lotus Tail. I designed that myself, so I know it was not inspired by the previous sketch.

Please let me know what you suggest Tieri, would sharing our new concepts within this community be a good idea to avoid this situation.?
I really appreciate your honest feedback :)

Elle
04-06-2015, 06:09 PM
PearlieMae, do you belive that your Lotus design was te first and only rendetion of a mermaid flower tail. I can assure you it is not. I have found in my research serveral other "lotus-like" mermaid tail dsigns that re-date your own.

Personally I'd like to see these because apart from the one you posted and Lotus_Bloomings sketches I am aware of one other lotus tail, and that's from a game you can get from the apple store and it's layered leaves.
I have never seen a lotus tail previously, and I spend a fair bit of time on Pinterest, Google and all the rest of it looking up inspiration because I like to draw tails.
Fair enough the tail she sent you was more distinctly different because of the scales. But the image that Pearlie posted with the 'stem' winding around the tail body is very close.

You can't say you haven't been rude. There were people sitting on the fence when we first started looking at your tails and then as soon as they saw your interaction with people on facebook/instagram whatever, they all agreed you were rude.

What you need to understand is that there are members on this site who are well known in the community, and people regularly do ask for their opinions. Honestly someone had to turn of their PM on here off so they could catch a break. You've been around for not even 4 months, chill. Little fish, Big pond. Carrying on like this can get you eaten alive. It happens. It's already happened at least once in the last few months. lets not see it happen again, sound good?

AniaR
04-06-2015, 06:50 PM
Well good riddance to a bad designer. Good luck with a new one!

Swimtails
04-06-2015, 08:46 PM
Well good riddance to a bad designer. Good luck with a new one!
Thanks AniaR, it's probably better that I keep a closer eye on new concepts anyway. Plus it's my favorite part !

AniaR
04-06-2015, 08:54 PM
You can certainly recover from this mistake with a little elbow grease and PR ;)

Swimtails
04-06-2015, 09:18 PM
You can certainly recover from this mistake with a little elbow grease and PR ;)
Thanks so much for the positive comments! We need them ��

Mermaid Mystery
04-06-2015, 10:10 PM
you guys do have awesome designs, I have to admit! I wish I could put my ideas down like that!


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Dancing Fish
04-06-2015, 10:14 PM
The parrot tail is gorgeous! I dig the black lace design, too.

Swimtails
04-06-2015, 10:48 PM
The parrot tail is gorgeous! I dig the black lace design, too.
Thanks so much! It means a lot ;)

Mermaid Velos
07-23-2018, 01:04 AM
Has anyone tried their Betta tails? How do they work in the water? I have been thinking about buying one of them, or just getting a monofin and swimming straight to silicone...

SIF
07-25-2018, 08:42 PM
Has anyone tried their Betta tails? How do they work in the water? I have been thinking about buying one of them, or just getting a monofin and swimming straight to silicone...Ask merman Jax.

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KTMaggs
07-26-2018, 03:38 PM
Has anyone tried their Betta tails? How do they work in the water? I have been thinking about buying one of them, or just getting a monofin and swimming straight to silicone...
Get a simple tail first. Like fin fun. It doesnít matter that you can swim well. It is so hard to manage and take care of a silicone tail and itís even harder to swim in them.


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Mer_Adella
07-30-2018, 10:15 AM
They list their material as “scuba” fabric. Does this mean it’s neoprene? I have a friend who wants to know as she is wondering if she can do scales overtop to fix an issue.

KTMaggs
07-30-2018, 11:30 AM
They list their material as ďscubaĒ fabric. Does this mean itís neoprene? I have a friend who wants to know as she is wondering if she can do scales overtop to fix an issue.

Itís scubaknit which is like a very thin neoprene, itís behaves much more like spandex.


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Echidna
02-27-2019, 02:30 PM
Since there have come out so many gorgeous new designs (the siren and hydra and betta tails, etc), can we update this thread or maybe make a fresh one?
While organizing mermeets in Germany, I found that swimtails are now heavily marketed in Europe, with many local distributors.
Does this mean they have now many satisfied customers, or did they simply go for a new market after the drama in the US?

I tried to find relevant reviews and RL pictures, but all I can find are some digital stock photos and videos about, well, what's in this thread.
I'd really like to hear from people who own their tails, and how they swim (the sleeker ones, the Bettas I can tell are hard to swim in xD
so pretty though!)