Take a custom Monofin out of a tail?

[Havanargila]

I thought my tail would have an actual monofin in it. Instead it came with a 'custom' monofin which is basically what seems to be a mono fin cut in half, reshaped, and with a diamond shaped huge block between my feet and angles the feet out in a V shape giving me bruises every time I swim. Maker not responding to my request to have him remove it or tell me what it looks like inside and what tools I need to remove it. I literally feel up that creek without a fin to swim in! Can anyone give me suggestions on the best way to remove the "custom mono fin" without destroying my otherwise beautiful silicone tail?

[PearlieMae]

Well, pictures and tailmaker details might help so we know what/who you are/were dealing with...

You might want to swing by the Introduce Yourself thread and...well...introduce yourself. :)

[MermaidBrandie]

Pictures of the tail would help tons as well.


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[Fifi Tigg]

I've made over a few tails and removed many homemade monofins, so if you tell me the maker and show some pics I may be able to help you ;)

[Havanargila]

It is a truly Beautiful Tail, by Mertailor. Unfortunately, the customer service is severely lacking. After several more emails this week he finally replied saying that he would not take the custom mono fins out. He told me that he already suggested I "try neoprene socks" but I wouldn't take his suggestion so he's not going to do anything else. Amazing tail-making artist, with in my opinion a little too much ego. I just want to swim in my tail the way I want to swim in my tail.

And Yes Fifi, I would like some help. It's summer and I want to use my tail! Thanks

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[Raayvhen]

What would you use instead? It would be hard (impossible?) to fit an uncut monofin in there.

[Havanargila]

I don't want a monofin. I want the monofin out. I want just my feet in the tail. Initially I thought it I wanted a monofin but after this custom monofin nightmare (which was NOT a monofin at all), I just want all that hardware out of the tail. I'll be able to swim in it a lot better when it's out. I hate the idea of cutting it out but it may come to that. If so, I'd like some help on what/where I can get silicone and sealing stuff to then repair it after the monofin is out. I would SO much rather a professional tail maker take this on, but Mertailor is refusing to alter the tail and I don't know who else to ask who would know what they're doing.

[MerEmma]

You could contact MerNation's tail repair service, at the least they might have some recommendations if you share close up photos and explain the problem. I've heard that they're very eager to help with repairing tails. :)

[Fifi Tigg]

I don't want a monofin. I want the monofin out. I want just my feet in the tail. Initially I thought it I wanted a monofin but after this custom monofin nightmare (which was NOT a monofin at all), I just want all that hardware out of the tail. I'll be able to swim in it a lot better when it's out. I hate the idea of cutting it out but it may come to that. If so, I'd like some help on what/where I can get silicone and sealing stuff to then repair it after the monofin is out. I would SO much rather a professional tail maker take this on, but Mertailor is refusing to alter the tail and I don't know who else to ask who would know what they're doing.

I would help but to be honest I find the idea of no monofin at all a little scary and dangerous! You would just be swimming in a skin with a heavy weight attached and I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with the Mertailor.

[MermaidBrandie]

I would help but to be honest I find the idea of no monofin at all a little scary and dangerous! You would just be swimming in a skin with a heavy weight attached and I can't believe I'm saying this but I agree with the Mertailor.

I hate to say it too, but I agree as well. Silicone tails with no monofin are not good for swimming, they're better as dry photo shoot tails. They aren't safe.

Either leave the monofin in, find a way to replace it with a more comfortable fin, or get neoprene socks. It's a safety hazard to you and anyone who tried to save you.


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[Havanargila]

Hey girls, I know you honestly mean well but I didn't ask for, don't want and don't need opinions on whether or not to do this. I'm doing it. If you want to help me, let me know if you know how to take out the monofin/supplies I need. I'll contact MerNation too. That's a helpful suggestion.

I absolutely am at risk swimming in this tail as is. The custom monofin is not helping my feet swim one bit. I am purposefully not contracting a single muscle in my feet because if I do it hurts and twists my ankles in a more painful way. Reading Eric's replies I thought I was the only one who had this issue but I've since read other reviews and I'm not the only one. Maybe its the way mertailor makes the custom monofin is different from other ones. Don't know, but it's not workable. I need it changed. Only because I have swam competitively since I was 4 years old and I am a very strong swimmer am I in any way able to keep afloat because the 'custom monofin' is pulling me down. I'm not able to use my feet to swim at all. I am relying purely on my legs and torso. Once the painful and useless hardware is removed, I'll be able to swim safely and comfortably. Again, I realize you guys are trying to help but I honestly don't want opinions on whether or not to do this or not. Just suggestions on how to make it happen sooner than later. Thanks!

[MermaidBrandie]

We just said not to remove it and leave it empty, find a monofin that works for you and put it in.

Without seeing close ups of the edges of the flipper itself and the tail we can't give you much advice.

My best guess without seeing the tail would be to carefully slice the middle of the bottom edge from tip to tip and peal the two pieces apart until you can slide the monofin out and put the new monofin in.


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[Havanargila]

Thanks. What kind of sealer would I use to put it back together? Something I can buy at home depot or I have to buy online? It's a full silicone tail

Close-up:

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[Fifi Tigg]

I would insist on you putting in a different monofin that is more comfortable because you say the custom monofin is pulling you down. The monofin usually weighs less than the fluke itself because its the silicone that is the weight.
Please do not take my suggestion as an attack, im just worried about your safety.
I've been working with kids in tails for two years now and it doesnt matter about your swimming capabilities it's getting the best swimming motion that works for you.
I use Mahina monofins in all my tails and with good neoprene booties they are quite good on your feet, maybe use one of those as a replacement?
I hope find a solution that works for you as mermaiding is a very rewarding experience :)

[Mermaid Jaffa]

But the MDV guy on Youtube doesn't use monofins in his tails. So how is her taking out the monofin dangerous if some other tailmaker does it too?

[Raayvhen]

Pretty sure they use custom monofins.

[Havanargila]

Who is this MDV guy, can you send me a link/more info? Thanks! :)

[Mermaid Jaffa]

Who is this MDV guy, can you send me a link/more info? Thanks! :)

https://www.facebook.com/fliptails?fref=ts
(https://www.facebook.com/fliptails?fref=ts)
His early work. I don't know about his current tails, if they have monofins inside. But the tail videos look like there aren't any.
https://www.youtube.com/user/mjv5757/videos

[Mer-Crazy]

Mine Van Dal makes probably the most expensive tails on the market, around $3600 base price and takes VERY limited orders, like less than Merbellas. Basically anything you see Mermaid Melissa swimming around in is MVD. He used to just have foot pockets, but now also uses monofins upon request as many have reported his foot pockets being uncomfortable.

https://www.facebook.com/fliptails?fref=ts

[Raayvhen]

It's mike van daal. His company is flip tails. Their Facebook says it's a custom monofin.

[Mermaid Jaffa]

Oh well, there haven't been any new videos on his youtube channel. So I thought he still made them that way.

[Havanargila]

Oh I know about Mike Van Daal. For every 20 emails I send him, I get one reply saying that he'll email me soon. He's busy and good obviously.
If you could bear with me for a second, what is a foot pocket exactly? A space for feet within the silicone or an actual thing or part of a monofin or fin put into the silicone tail?

[Mermaid Jaffa]

A space for feet on the monofin. You know those things, that you stick your feet into when you use a monofin.

[Havanargila]

Right. I don't see why to put a foot pocket in instead of just making space in the fluke for my two feet...

Just feel like the middle man isn't necessary if I'm not using a monofin anyway.

[Raayvhen]

The foot pockets are what give the fin propulsion. You'll be moving very slow (if you move at all) in your tail if you don't use a monofin.

[Mermaid Jaffa]

Maybe just cut out the monofin part and leave the foot pockets in? Then your feet won't feel like its loose inside your tail.
I don't have a silicone tail so I don't know exactly how it would work out!

[PearlieMae]

Hey girls, I know you honestly mean well but I didn't ask for, don't want and don't need opinions on whether or not to do this. I'm doing it. If you want to help me, let me know if you know how to take out the monofin/supplies I need. : snip: Again, I realize you guys are trying to help but I honestly don't want opinions on whether or not to do this or not. Just suggestions on how to make it happen sooner than later. Thanks!

Xacto blades and SilPoxy from Smooth On.

And maybe a Valium.

:eye twitch:

[Yulia]

You say you want to get it out because you can't move your feet? Because your not really supposed to use them in the dolphin kick.
Have I read you wrong?

[Mermaid Lunette]

i know this is a bit of an afterthought, but close up pictures of your fluke on dry land not in motion might be helpful. i mean, the pictures you provided, while pretty, don't show your tail very well and seeing your fluke clearly might still help

(i only suggest this because if people can clearly see your fluke they might be able to describe in detail how you can take it out, I.E: what angle to best remove/cut from etc... due to tails uniquness, not seeing it clearly only allows for vague suggestions on how to generally remove a monofin of various tails instead of a specific removal for your tail.) might not be a real factor to anybody now, but i still think it could help.

[MermaidBrandie]

Silicone ONLY sticks to more silicone and depending on the age of the tail sometimes not even that.

I get my silicone from smooth-on. I suggest getting a dragon skin since that's probably what the tail is made of.

Please please put a monofin in.


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[Ashe]

The way the monofin-less Mike Van Dal tails were created had hard and sturdy silicone in the fluke. It acted like a monofin and still gave propulsion.
I know how fixated you are on doing this, but you realize you'll just be wearing a giant silicone sock over your legs, right? And when you swim, the fluke will get all bunched up and not look like a fluke at all.
Have you swam using a monofin before? Some are actually very comfy!

But working on taking the fin out. You'll need knives and a scraper to detach the fin. Depending on what kind of glue he used to seal the fin into the fluke, it may be easy to detach or very hard. Does anyone know of a solvent that will dissolve glue but be silicone safe? I know I've used something called 'goo-gone'.

[MermaidBrandie]

I have some goo-gone. I can see what it does to silicone if you'd like


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[Havanargila]

Goo gone? I'll look for that. What type of knife would you use? Any idea what website I should go to buy a small tub of the silicone? I'll take some better pictures and post soon and I appreciate your willingness to help and offer suggestions even though my question sounds like an odd one. But trust me, if you'd been attempting to swim in my tail the last 6 months, I'm pretty sure you'd be doing the same thing.

I finally got ahold of Mike and he replied that he would make a finless silicone fluke and that is what he says he primarily makes anyway! So that is one piece of good news.

I do still want to fix this one though. More pics tomorrow! Thanks again

[Havanargila]

Please do!


I have some goo-gone. I can see what it does to silicone if you'd like


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[MermaidBrandie]

I would say a sharp box knife.

Look for a smooth-on rep, generally it's going to be a Reynolds Advance Supply, and they sell it for the same price as the smooth-on website but without the cost of shipping. Depending on where it's located compared to you this might be a better option, plus then you can talk to the people there and ask advice. I'd have the tail in the car for them to look at as well if you want, but then I really prefer hands on advice.

Have you swam in a monofin before? It makes the mermaid movement so much easier and more graceful, not to mention safer in open water.

I love Mike's tails, so pretty.


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[Mermaid Wesley]

I have to agree with putting a monofin in the tail. You might be interested in a foil or a rapid/wave monofin. They're very comfortable and not too expensive. There is no glue in the fluke of the mertailors and it is most likely that once you cut the fluke open, you will just be able to pull it out. You might want to take the monofin out then take it for a test swim and see what you think before sealing it back together. Then put in a monofin or don't if you really don't want to. Wash the silicone with dish soap and apply more silicone as glue everywhere where there isn't a monofin, preferably leaving a few unglued spots to allow for drainage. I was a competitive swimmer for some years as well and though I'm sure you could handle swimming without a monofin, it's much nicer to have one. Mermaiding requires a lot for aesthetics and Monofins add to the whole "look" as well as helping in swimming.


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[Havanargila]

"Inside of your tail is a polycarbone blade attached to rubber foot pockets that is sealed and molded into your silicone fluke, which is partially embedded using silicone rubber. The pockets themselves are slightly separated and there is silicone rubber filling any and all voids." - Mertailor

What does Sealed mean? I take that to mean glued....Am I wrong? When I stick my arm down there, the silicone rubber block literally seems like it's glued to the silicone fluke itself...

Has anyone else out there had to dissect a Mertailor tail and could offer me some direction?

Still hoping to get a professional to do this for me, but if I end up doing this I am totally you tubing it. I'm sure I'm not the only one out there with this problem...

[Mermaid Jaffa]

Sealed means its stuck together.

[MermaidBrandie]

Best one to ask would be Fifi, she's the only one I know to take tails apart on the reg. other than that, you might just have to dig in and hope for the best.

[emoji53]


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[UltimateSwimFin.com]

Your Feet need to be pointed straight, because if they are pointed in even a slight "V", you will inflict some awful forces on your knees and likely lead to injury. :(

Footpockets of some sort are generally needed for power transfer, efficiency and structural integrity.

Just having feet inside a silicone tube will likely just have you flopping around and potentially kicking through the silicone.

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[MerEmma]

MVD does put footpockets in his tails if I recall. No monofin, but pockets for your feet to keep them tight and secure in place.

I'm sorry your tail didn't turn out as you wanted.

[Yulia]

I have disassembled a monofin like that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h239njltsI

I cut along the sides of the fluke (don't do it along the top as I did) with an exacto blade. Then I scraped and scraped and scraped of the few spots of silicone that hadn't loosened from the plexiglass.
If you were to do it you would then take some silicone and sandwich it in there, and then clamp it together.

[Havanargila]

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[MermaidBrandie]

All the images are broken except the last one


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[Havanargila]

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[MermaidBrandie]

That would get tedious. (With the feet) Most monofins don't do that. I bet it would fit another one. A smaller finis perhaps, I don't know the measurements of this fluke but I'm sure you could measure and look up a matching monofin.


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[Havanargila]

That would get tedious. (With the feet) Most monofins don't do that. I bet it would fit another one. A smaller finis perhaps, I don't know the measurements of this fluke but I'm sure you could measure and look up a matching monofin.


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Most monofins aren't shaped like mine you mean? I had a feeling it was super bulky. Is that what you mean? Sorry I didn't understand. Do any of you who know how to work with sikicone and flukes live in CA? I'd prefer not to do this myself

[MermaidBrandie]

Most monofins don't point your toes like that, which is what problem your having with the swimming.

The finis foil monofins are very small, not bulky. I would recommend one of those if you want a flowy fluke.

I'm in Colorado. :/ otherwise I would help


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[UltimateSwimFin.com]

Even if the whole foil doesn't fit in there, you could easily trim it.


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[MermaidBrandie]

Even if the while foil doesn't fit in there, you could easily trim it.


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Yes easily. :)


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[Mermaid Jaffa]

I'm no expert, but to me, it looks like he used flippers.

[Mermaid Mystery]

I think he fuses flippers together but I'm not entirely sure. in his older posts that's what it looks like he does

[Mermaid Wesley]

He makes polycarbonate fins ;) or something similar.


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[Havanargila]

I think he fuses flippers together but I'm not entirely sure. in his older posts that's what it looks like he does

Feels like fins if that's what you mean by flippers like regular 2 feet fins. Bulky, pointed in a weird direction and painful.

i am going to attempt the operation this weekend. Please any tips and advice much appreciated

[MermaidBrandie]

Go slow, go careful.

Get a different monofin to put in it. (If you get a finis foil or any monofin with rubber, wrap it in Saran warp first otherwise the new silicone won't cure against the rubber).

When you put it back together make sure there's drain holes.

Please do not leave this without a monofin, for safety. Unless you're not going to be swimming in it, or not any swimming in deep water.

*i should also note that it should not be two separate fins. It should be a monofin and that's your problem with the feet. More than likely.

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[Havanargila]

Go slow, go careful.

Get a different monofin to put in it. (If you get a finis foil or any monofin with rubber, wrap it in Saran warp first otherwise the new silicone won't cure against the rubber).

When you put it back together make sure there's drain holes.

Please do not leave this without a monofin, for safety. Unless you're not going to be swimming in it, or not any swimming in deep water.

*i should also note that it should not be two separate fins. It should be a monofin and that's your problem with the feet. More than likely.

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keep the Saran wrap on? Does that mean the monofin will sort of stay loose in the fluke?
there weren't drain holes before, I had to hold it upside down to get any water out... It's better to cut drain holes? Like circular holes?

just using the sikicone like glue right? No additional glue needed?

thank you

[MermaidBrandie]

keep the Saran wrap on? Does that mean the monofin will sort of stay loose in the fluke?
If you get a rubber monofin, or a monofins with rubber on it anywhere, the rubber will interfere with the curing of the silicone. Cute the fin tightly in, would be my advice. Ask PearlieMae or someone who's made a tail.



there weren't drain holes before, I had to hold it upside down to get any water out... It's better to cut drain holes? Like circular holes?

There should be drain holes to keep it from dragging when water gets caught. I believe merbella uses long straws held in place somehow. They should go from the monofin to out the end, so that any water that does go through keeps going instead of dragging you down.


just using the sikicone like glue right? No additional glue needed?

thank you

silicone ONLY sticks to silicone. Sometimes it won't even stick to the silicone if the already cured silicone is too old.

My advice: after cutting the old find out and choosing the new monofin, go to a local Smooth-On supplier (if you have one) and get the smallest package of "dragon skin 10 slow" you can. Wash the inside of the fluke after its pulled apart (use a sex toy cleaner, most dish soaps are harsh on silicone, or a 1:10 bleach water mix), wrap the monofin in Saran Wrap, place it in between the two sides of the fluke, place your drainage holes (either with straws or flat cardboard also wrapped in Saran Wrap), then little by little mix the silicone ( 1:1 ratio - I use plastic measuring cups) and adhere the two sides together. Read the instructions on the silicone, go slow, don't rush. It takes 4 hours (ish) for the silicone to fully cure. When it's cured (I'd leave it until the next day) reach in from the waist and pull out the Saran Wrap and drainage hole things.

I have not made a tail yet, I'm simply saying what I would do. For specific questions go on the "tail making questions" forum and ask there.


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[Yulia]

Have you contacted Mernation? They answer to email pretty fast and they might be able to help you with this.

[MermaidBrandie]

^^^^^^^
That too


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[Havanargila]

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coyote - that was really helpful info thanks. is the clear stuff he put under the outer blue skin and in between the flippers silicone or bolycarbonate? knife cuts through it, not as easily as the outer skin, but it does cut through it, could it be a different type of silicone?

thanks

[MermaidBrandie]

I don't know what bolycarbonate is but it's possibly that's a different silicone. Maybe dragon skin 30 or 30?


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[Yulia]

I don't know what bolycarbonate is but it's possibly that's a different silicone. Maybe dragon skin 30 or 30?


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Probably a misspelling of Polycarbonate. ;)

It could be caulking too.

[MermaidBrandie]

Yes the mertailor is notorious for being an awful hack


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[Havanargila]

Yes the mertailor is notorious for being an awful hack


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:-S

my knife isn't precise enough to peel the blue from the whatever it is that's in between everything. Whatever it is its heavy, like heavier than the sikicone, harder but still somewhat pliable and cut-able. Going to wait for an Xacto knife to finish as I want it to be pretty when I glue it all back together. Silpoxy is glue as far as I could see, to glue the out silicone back together hopefully. will have to finish this job next weekend after I have all my supplies. Mertailor is a good artist but he needs to hire someone to do proper monofins and merciful customer service. Thanks for all your help though, it was everything I didn't get from him but needed 💜

[MermaidBrandie]

Silpoxy would work but getting enough to put the fluke back together might be very costly compared to just buying my silicone. Might be worth it.

Please still put a mono fin in this. You haven't said if you are or not. We haven't had bad press with a mermaid yet, but I truly fear that if you don't put a monofin in and have an accident it would not only be bad for you, but bad press for the rest of us. They could ban monofins and tails across the board.


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[Havanargila]

Aside from being a mermaid I'm a licensed healthcare provider with the medical board of california, and notorious for being one of the most cautious in my community. Trust me I won't drown myself :)

In fact the reason you see the photos of me swimming as you did was because I didn't want to try it in the ocean before I knew mertailors tail was safe, so I asked my friend if I could use his shallow pool.

And the reason why I'm operating on this tail is because it's not safe. I am going to make it safe. I'm not sure if a monofin will be or not, depends what kind of mono fins are out there or whether I am going to make a monofin. Mahina's look the nicest, but I'm not sure if the toes are touching. After this experience I want a monofin/silicone/footpocket with toes touching. I don't feel safe if I can't move my ankles or knees. Finis seems to make a monofin for kids with toes touching, but size 7 is too small for me... Do you know of a monofin/foot pocket that allows the toes to be touching and not separated by more than a few millimeters? Something like a mix between the finis kids and the Mahina would be perfect. Point me in the right direction... in any case don't worry. I won't drown myself. Competitive swimmer + super safe mom of a 6 year old here

[MermaidBrandie]

Mahina has that, there's a thin wall of rubber but yes, mahina merfin does that.


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[Mermaid Wesley]

If you plan on ocean swimming where there are any waves or current at all you will need a very stiff monofin, a fiberglass fin, preferably. I am a very strong swimmer but I have had a few serious scares getting past the surf in a monofin and a tail. if its a bay or something without waves then you should be ok, but if you plan on swimming at a regular beach you NEED a good monofin or it will absolutely not be safe. the right ones are built for ocean swimming, and are a necessity. You need to do some research on monofins and freediving before you take this in the ocean, for sure. I wouldnt ocean swim in a silicone tail unless someone took me out past the shore in a boat first, or if there was no possibility of waves or current. it is dangerous no matter how you spin it and mermaiding is not a totally safe activity. good luck with this tail and please do be careful.

[Mermaid Wesley]

oh and that is a polycarbonate fin surrounded by silicone rubber. It would be fine but the angle he attached the foot pockets at is pretty ridiculous

[Prairie Mermaid Jamie]

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coyote - that was really helpful info thanks. is the clear stuff he put under the outer blue skin and in between the flippers silicone or bolycarbonate? knife cuts through it, not as easily as the outer skin, but it does cut through it, could it be a different type of silicone?

thanks

Pretty sure thats silicone caulk. Cheaper and thicker then dragonskin. Hed need at least 1/2 a gallon of dragonskin thickened to the max to equal the amount he uses in the hybrid flukes. It also wouldnt cure against those footpockets. I pulled over a pound of it out of mine. A giant glad freezer bag stuffed full.

Provided he didnt punch holes in that one, you should be able to pry the polycarbonate out and put a new monofin in its place. The more you open the fluke up the easier itll be to get it in there without tons of air bubbles. Definately add some drainage. You can use straws stuffed into anothers end until its long enough. Or those giant pixie stick straws.

GE 1 window and door caulk will stick to his tails. I dont know if its cheaper then silpoxy but its easier to find.

my thread about my tail is in the mertailor section. I had to pull mine apart too. It may help. But mind you, I had a wave, not his own monofin. Theres photos to give you an idea of what the inside looks like in regards to placement.


best of luck!

[Triton-Mahtlinnie]

On the monofin note: The Finis Aquarius (http://www.finisinc.com/Aquarius-Fin) has a single footpocket for both feet. It goes up to a foot size Women's 11 (US).

[Havanargila]

So I am still in discussions with Tailmaker about resolving, but I just wanted to say THANk YOU everyone who gave me so much information and advice on how to fix my tail. It's now fixed and swimmable. Exacto knifed the monofin and a bunch of silicone stuff out, recut the fins, medically sutured up the tail and silpoxy-d between suture lines. There are foot pockets but no monofin, there was just no way to put a monofin in it without destroying the tail by cutting it up too much more. I'm happy with it now, 14-20 hours of work, blood, sweat and tears later. Thank you again, couldn't have done it without you all.

link to the photo album: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.736634169778941.1073741826.100002970952235&type=1&l=08fa00e76a