So I decided to make myself a silicone tail...

[Lili]

I've worked with fabric for a while now, and I really wanted to do something different and I came across silicone. I've come up with an entire understructure for the tail with fabric and foam (just to make it more comfortable) I don't really want to invest in a monofin so I figured I would make a flexible rod with an extension for the fluke myself. The problems I am having is the actual top coat of the tail, and how to make that. I don't know whether people just brush on silicone or create an entire mold for it. Any suggestions? Keep in mind I am making my scales out of plastic because I don't really like the look of silicone scales...also I am pretty sure I would mess up my scale sheet if I attempted...you can't go wrong with thousands of plastic scales :eek:

[Yulia]

The plastic scales may very likely inhibit the curing of the silicone.

[Lili]

Hm...I wanted to add them on once the silicone is cured (with glue)

[Yulia]

Mm okay, maybe a neoprene base would be better then?

[Lili]

I thought so too...I just don't know where to get neoprene (one that isn't overwhelmingly expensive you know..)

[Yulia]

Neoprene is cheaper than silicone, check online on scubastores and such.

Because the only thing that attaches to silicone is more silicone, so you can't really "glue" plastic scales on top of a silicone tailbase.
I also would very much recommend a monofin inside the tail, for safety and propulsion. There are cheaper monofins.

[Lili]

right, i will check some places, I have seen people glue plastic to silicone before and it is doable as long as the right adhesive is used. I need to do more research on that but yeah thank you for your suggestions they were quite helpful :)

[Yulia]

"I have seen people glue plastic to silicone before and it is doable as long as the right adhesive is used."

Would love some examples, because from my knowledge that won't work.

[Lili]

I am waiting for my silicone to arrive first, I have cut out the scales already and I will be doing tests, so I will be posting some images up here soon hopefully...in case it is a total disaster then perhaps ill stick with silicone scales

[PearlieMae]

You can't glue anything to silicone except silicone.

[ShyMer]

I get the impression that you don't understand the processes involved with making a silicone tail. It's a lot of work!
You can choose to do whatever you like, but I would like to encourage
you to take your time and do the research before you end up spending a lot of money on something that doesn't work.

If you don't like silicone scales, I don't know why you're planning to make the body out of silicone.
I'd also be concerned about the foam thing. The idea of changing your shape is interesting, but if it's closed cell foam, it'll make you float, because air is trapped in it. This plus no monofin makes me concerned for safety. Your health and safety is worth spending money on, so please take care of yourself!

I'd also like to suggest neoprene with scale sequins. They look amazing <3 It's a lot of work to attach all the sequins, but so is attaching whatever plastic scales you're cutting out.

If you have any questions about processes or materials, people would probably help to point you in the right direction. Most people here want to see you succeed, and we like to talk about this stuff.

Good luck with your tail!

[Mer-Crazy]

"I'm making a silicone tail... out of foam and neoprene with a thin layer of silicone over the top... and I don't like the look of silicone scales, so I'm going to cover it in plastic..." Why even bother with the silicone then? I agree with ShyMer that it sounds like it'd be better for you to make a sequin tail ^_^

[Luna Dreamtide]

What about the tails from H2O and Aquamarine? They were all made by the same special effects company and they had some sort of foam base with silicone and plastic scales glued over. I can't remember the name of the company.

[MerShellly]

What about the tails from H2O and Aquamarine? They were all made by the same special effects company and they had some sort of foam base with silicone and plastic scales glued over. I can't remember the name of the company.
JMB FX Studio :), or at least for h2o anyway

[Lili]

hiya, yes, i am still somewhat in the design stage because i thought i should take this project head on, well, i thought i needed silicone at least for the fins and the fluke because it gives it a nicer finish, instead of a monofin, i thought i would insert some sort of flexible nylon kind of material in it to give it some weight. i am still debating this foam idea and thinking of ways to improve that. but plastic is capable of adhering to silicone with the right material. And yes Mermaid Leina, that is what I was going for, the plastic scale look.

[Lili]

gotta give a lot of credit to jmb fx, their tails are beautiful, and i was inspired by their scales and designs in general (on the inside) i don't know what they used EXACTLY i am just trying to find different ways they most likely did things. I am trying to face this creatively and not copy their designs step by step...actually i can't really do that since i've no clue what they did inside. heh...

[PearlieMae]

You have to take into consideration that tv show mermaids have dive teams and staff to assist the actors in making these shows, not to mention the editing process!

In order to make SWIMMABLE tails, you need to read through the tailmaking threads before you do the first thing towards making a tail.

And let me know when you find this miracle stuff that glues plastic to silicone.

It'll pay off for you in the long run to do your research first.

:D

[Lili]

I understand, I have been doing a lot of research, i only came across mernetwork recently and found out about all this stuff on tail making. I thought "finally!" and yes sil-poxy by smooth on is actually a silicone adhesive. some people use devcon as well, i also heard e6000 is a good adhesive i might test that one out more than once though because i somehow doubt that will do anything. But you are right research is very helpful, thank you :) I am a newbie at most of this stuff and i am really excited to see whether this is a win or a fail. i really hope it isn't the latter :P

[MerEmma]

There are a few people on the forum who have done a lot of research on the subject. Here's one good thread for references and a good idea of what you're getting into, if you haven't seen it yet: http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?6703-Kyle-s-H20-Mako-mermiads-inspired-tail-with-a-splash-of-personality!!!&highlight=extension

Good luck with it! Make sure you are strong enough for it--all the actresses for H2O went through intense training for two months with a monofin and working out and breathholding before they even got in one of the tails.

Also be aware that "not wanting to invest" in a monofin is an awful reason to do an extended tail. Extended tails will ALWAYS come out more expensive than a monofin and more complicated. They will be harder to swim in, period, no doubt about it. A monofin I think will always be cheaper and easier. The Lunocet could be a great option for you to study as a reference.

[Mermaid Wesley]

You might like making a tail with a sequin body and silicone fins like these one by Mermaid Kariel

https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/t31.0-8/p180x540/11251283_1107715635911630_3161345793643993247_o.jp g
https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11023334_1094046107278583_6495381608322049125_n.jp g?oh=1e63ff163d659868a46131d2fe616890&oe=55FA6EA7
https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10906363_1008835875799607_1493586104902279817_n.jp g?oh=99cd2f82631bbdb42b3f0285718dcd22&oe=55EAA690

[MerEmma]

ughhh that makes me want one so so bad. o_o

[Mermaid Wesley]

Right?? I swear that's my next project. I can use the same molds I have now for the fins too ;)

[Theobromine]

Just chiming in to say I agree with everyone else who's commented and advised you to do more research on here before making plans to use things like foam/silicone/plastic scales/extended homemade fins...we're not trying to rain on your parade, quite the opposite actually. You'll have a MUCH more successful and rewarding experience if you're armed with as much knowledge as possible. A lot of people on here have done TONS of research and testing and basically trailblazing in the field of tailmaking. You can read through all the old threads in the Tailmaking section to get heaps of useful information. Also, for what it's worth, I would most emphatically not recommend using foam. It is far too buoyant. Even neoprene is too buoyant for some people, and that's actually made for swimming in.

In regards to the silicone, it is very important to make a distinction between different TYPES of silicone. Not all silicones are the same. Platinum-cure silicone (brand name Dragonskin, among others) is the highest-quality silicone and the one that's mainly used by the special effects industry, as well as all professional tailmakers worth their salt. It's the safest and most durable silicone, as well as the most expensive. And more importantly, it is known for being the most "picky" type of silicone: it can be cure-inhibited by a lot of different substances, including other silicones. Platinum silicone will only bond to platinum silicone, nothing else. Note that other silicones such as acetic-cure silicone WILL cure against and stick to dragonskin, but it won't properly bond. Some people use it to fix small cuts or tears in their dragonskin tails (because it's cheaper and easy to find at the hardware store), but it will eventually come off. Some people also use acetic-cure silicone to make their tails itself, but it is not as durable, therefore will tear more easily, AND it has not been cleared as a skin-safe product. It is actually an adhesive caulk, and is used for home applications as well as for sealing together the joints of glass aquariums. It will adhere glass, plastic, and, various other materials...maybe that's what you were thinking of? Keep in mind if you decide to use acetic-cure silicone that acetic=acetic acid=vinegar=PEW PEW PEW, use adequate ventilation.

[Lili]

hm...so what about open cell foam? this type claims to not absorb water, i may actually have to get some caulking just to save materials for the extended bit, either that or open cell foam, in theory, silicone in that area should be too heavy for the tail and will probably not even attach to the fluke itself which is already a bad idea hm...i need to think this over some more.

[Starfrit]

I've come up with an entire understructure for the tail with fabric and foam (just to make it more comfortable)

... What kind of foam do you intend to use, and how much are you planning on using? Bear in mind that foam is INCREDIBLY buoyant, which may make submerging yourself underwater for any length of time really difficult without the use of some sort of weights to counter it.


I don't really want to invest in a monofin so I figured I would make a flexible rod with an extension for the fluke myself.

Since you're only just learning about tailmaking, I'm going to come out and say it: This is a TERRIBLE idea. You'll end up spending way more money than a monofin trying to get this together, build something even remotely usable, and then in the end probably end up with something you can barely swim in. Experienced makers here have attempted it and either failed, given up or ended up with a useless "show" tail more times than I can count. Even extended tails used in TV and movies by professional special effects artists are complicated, impractical for swimming and only really usable in a small, enclosed area with a huge team of handlers around. Extended tails are, in my opinion, entirely about aesthetics and aren't great for merfolk like us.


Keep in mind I am making my scales out of plastic because I don't really like the look of silicone scales...also I am pretty sure I would mess up my scale sheet if I attempted...you can't go wrong with thousands of plastic scales :eek:

... Then what on earth is the silicone for? You'd be better off saving your money and getting a few yards of fabric or neoprene and just sewing the plastic scales directly to that and not bothering with the silicone at all, unless you want to take the Kariel route and use the silicone for making fins to attach to it afterwards-- Probably cheaper than what you're originally planning, but it'll still look gorgeous in the end.


On the upside, you came to the right site for advice! There are lots of experienced tailmakers here of all kinds who can help you out with finding the best methods and materials for the sorts of tails you might want to make, and loads of tutorials around the forums too. Good luck!

[Theobromine]

Why do you want to use foam? Don't use foam. Foam floats like a cork. Very bad for a tail.

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