Calling All Lawyers: Stopping Tailbuyer Abuse in the Community

[Seatan]

Okay, I have had as much as I can take. We have to do something in this community about the tailmakers who are cheating our fellow mers with poor products. The unprofessionalism that has been allowed to fester has harmed too many people, and the way that "refunds" are given by tailmakers (usually after months of begging and denial) is simply WRONG. The tailbuyer should not have to suffer as the tailmaker refunds them bit by bit as they please. They should have to refund you just like any "real world" service--and if that means they lose their car or their house or whatever, well, that is the price of business failure. These tailmakers create startups, and any decent entrepreneur knows that if it doesn't work out and it lands you in bankruptcy, well, that is your own fault. If you want to start a real business, take out a loan for startup rather than using money for items you haven't yet supplied to the buyers to fund your business--you know, like a REAL business person.

There may not be a lot we can do on an individual basis, but we can draw up a few legal contracts that mers can offer their tailmakers to sign in order to protect themselves from shoddy work or work that never arrives. And if we all get behind the idea and no one is ABLE to sell tails without a fair legal contract then people will have to become more careful of when they decide to make tails. I am going to talk to my grandfather's lawyer, but here are a few things I think these contracts should include:

1) a refund clause
"No refunds" is BS, and I am sick if it being the norm in the Tailmaking community. Many tailmakers are incapable of doing good work, and this just allows them to hand out their shoddy work and then say "no refunds." Yes, I know that tails cost a lot to make, but be a big kid and TAKE OUT A LOAN for supplies if you want to be a real business. Otherwise get off the dock.

2) quality control statements
There should be images of what the product will resemble along with specifics: "smooth seams," "paint that does not come off with normal wear," "no tears on arrival," "smoothly poured silicone," etc. If quality control is not met, you should get a refund.

3) a time line
"this tail will be completed in 4-6 months." It is total crap that people "don't know" when their tails might be finished. It just shows that the tailmaker is not experienced enough to know how long a tail takes them to make or that they have taken on too many clients.

4) a clause regarding contact
"I will contact the client every four weeks with an update on their tails.

5) protection for tailmaker when it comes to GOOD work
"the tail will meet the quality of standards above and strongly resemble the description stated above, however, some artistic license will be granted as this is a work of individual art and may have some small variations to design. It will, however, meet all quality control standards and the artistic license may not be used to alter anything but small details noticed only on a micro spectrum." (AKA no giant pink dots on a tail cause they dropped pink silicone there and had to hide it.)

So what do you guys think? Is anyone here a lawyer? Are there any other clauses you think a contract should have?

[jvry8c]

sounds good. I can't say the language I would like to say here since kids do come on this message board and want to keep it G rated.

[AniaR]

ehhh sounds good in theory but it's not like people haven't been trying for this stuff since day one when Adam martyn strolled off with everyone's money. typically, it's too expensive to get a lawyer for such a small amount. And people are being scammed across the globe and laws are different everywhere. Along with TOS depending on which service you use (etsy, paypal, credit card, etc.)

Not only that but it's been brought of multiple times that there should be a code that tail makers have to follow but 1) most wont sign it and 2) who exactly is going to enforce it?

There's always stipulations as to why some of this shit happens, and by trying to get the people who are doing it intentionally, you end up punishing the people who don't scam ever but still fall into these issues from time to time. Plus I find the top of the line tail makers like finfolk and merbellas are ALWAYS approached by certain types of people as if they must be scam artists despite the fact neither has any record of every scamming anyone. You got tail makers who literally steal money and never give a tail, then finfolk or merbellas gets a color wrong or takes a month longer and all of a sudden clients say shitty blackmail esq things about ruining their business and letting everyone know they're a scammer.

For instance There at least 100 valid reason why a tail wont take the aprox time they give for being made including material back order (the great monofin back order of 2012 that effected pretty much every tail maker on the market), curing times (finfolk literally moved to hawaii to try and combat this issue), clients who need their tail reworked once it's already finished (don't end up liking the paint job or change their mind about something)

The tail makers who do offer refunds and exchanges I can tell you are 100% taken advantage of. I can't believe the shit people will do so they can get a 'free' tail from Raven and I've seen finfolk deal with it too. I've seen 'clients' do behaviours both online and with their tails that would be considered downright criminal in order to get a refund or exchange, when you have tail makers who don't ever give refunds putting out shitty content. I wish to God finfolk or Raven would post publicly about the absolute insane shit they've put up with.

Quality control? you get what you pay for honestly. I see this as more at fault of the consumer. Especially now when there is more info out there on current tail makers than ever before. If you're expecting to pay little, expect something that;s not gonna live up to the standard if you pay more. If you're knowingly deciding to take a risk on someone like mertailor whose track record is all over the freaking place with a million reviews to back it up... that's your choice. I see loads of mers decide to take the risk to save a few bucks and then be mad in the end. LIKE ANY OTHER PRODUCT on the market you're going to have your cheap knock offs and your high end. It's up to the consumer to pick one honestly. We can't stop a tail maker from putting out a crappy product no more than we can stop the dollar store from making cheap breakable versions of EVERYTHING.

As far as the contact thing I think that's unreasonable. Every tail maker is able to keep up with contact when they're starting out and have a few orders. Throw 100 orders in there and no, they dont have time to hand hold with clients. And when I used to help Raven with her client emails I can tell you 99% of the emails were totally unnecessary. PLus it borders on tail makers giving away trade secrets when people start asking for behind the scenes of every step. Even tail makers who last year people sang praises about their communication are now this year struggling- even those who directly hired staff to manage it. Again, constant communication or even specifically timed communication isnt standard is most other product fields. You could order a custom just about anything and be sent one update to get your approval and further updates after that if it DOESNT get your approval. I've seen that in objects much more expensive than tails. And you can't complain the tails take forever to be made and want them to spend all their time to answer uneccesary emails, or have people complain the prices are too high when they go and hire staff to help with that (even though most of the time staff cant answer the emails anyway due to the custom nature of the work) And having talked to other tail makers I have seen first hand how clients will use this mentality to exploit the tail makers who DO deliver quality products. I've seen more than I can count emails from clients who messed up on their end threatening tail makers that they would ruin their business. I see just as much abuse toward tail makers. It's the odd apple in the bag ruining it for everyone else and it's really time we just addressed that like it is.

I agree there is a problem. But I dont think you'll have any luck creating or enforcing something like this. I think the only way to deal with it is continued awareness. 5 years ago no one talked about this and way more people got scammed. but now people know how to document this stuff, they know how to file claims, they know how to look at reviews and where to find info and most of it comes up with a simple google search.

We can bang our heads against the wall wanting things to change and adhere to a standard but it just wont. People have been trying to force that on mertailor for a decade :p

I feel bad for people getting shitty tails. but in 90% of the cases the tail maker already had a very evident bad track record and people decided to give them a chance anyway.

If there is a field making money, you can be sure there will always be a group of people looking to exploit it any way they can.

The current situation with finspo sucks. but from day 1 people raised the alarm with merberry that she was making alex plus tails well after everyone knew the dangers. All along that entire journey people raised the alarm. then when she relaunched finspo once again everyone raised the alarm. But people still choose to go for it. Whether it's because the wait time is way less or the money. One way or another it's taking a risk. Are you going to go to the tattoo parlor with the 5 star reviews, a little more expensive and a few weeks wait... or the one that went bankrupt and just relaunched with the person who clearly still doesnt know how to tattoo?

edit: a friend summed it up the best. this is part of the unpredictability of ordering a custom item. People don't *have* to buy custom things if they wont want to deal with that kind of stuff. You want a fixed timeline, a fixed item, fixed updates... it sounds like factory items not custom.

[jvry8c]

AniaR (http://mernetwork.com/index/member.php?10-AniaR) I tend to agree and its really my fault along with a few others for believing in second chances or being ignorant. My advice for anyone reading this is if someone has multiple negative reviews or is "coming back" look for someone else and save your money. You'll be glad in the long run.

[Lotus the Mermaid]

I agree with the above statements! It's a great idea, but difficult to implement across the board. I suppose that leaves the responsibility in our hands to speak up and warn fellow mers when we see them heading toward something questionable. As for cost playing a part in these situations, rather than searching for a cheap alternative, there are now enough tail makers with afforfable payment plans to suit even the tightest of tail buyers' budgets. And, if you do feel like taking a tiny bit of a risk for a cheaper tail, there are a number of talented up and coming tail makers who are offering special discounts and deals for their first handful of customers. Obviously, it's better to find them on here, where MerNetwork keeps a list of them and their info so you can read what's being said about them, and see what they can do. I feel it's worth it to help out new artists and give the twins and Raven a break! :) <3

But like I said, it's an amazing idea! In a better world, we would be able to make full use out of it, and I'm sure it would help!

[sarkatsha]

I help out modding a community elsewhere on the net that deals with similar situations. (Different theme of art/costuming but the costuming end of it usually deals with a comparable cost as far as I've seen thus far.)

In my experience with the comm I help mod, it isn't rare at all to have a complaint come in where the commissioner got excited and didn't do much research into the reputation of the costume maker, then find themselves in a pickle later. Not always the case, as there are some one-off bad experiences with otherwise good makers (and some people are caught in a tough place because they are new to running a business and get in over their heads in the beginning) but generally speaking, that little extra research could have gone a long way in preventing pickles. Fortunately, the place I mod at has been around long enough to become a go-to location for its genre of costuming. It's saved some people headaches as a result!

The best bet for protecting oneself as a buyer would be to find out where people are posting reviews on tails and get to researching. If there is not a review section on MN yet, it would make a great addition (though I believe there already is one if I remember right.) Making disappointed reviews is tough, but it -really- is the only way to get the warning out to other people. The more people make reviews, be it good ones, bad ones, or where there is a mix of both, the more makers will be held accountable. (And hey, maybe they will be alerted to issues in their process they need to change but had no idea about!) Reviews really are everyone's best friend! :) It will not prevent every bad experience, but it will help keep them down.

Anyways, other ideas for buyers.. When you see maker's you'd like to try, read over their TOS (terms of service) completely and jot down any questions it may bring up, so you can ask for clarification before any money changes hands. If they do not have a TOS, ask them about time frames, durability/quality expectations/what happens if something falls short, how much contact is okay during the process/or how much is too much (having this established takes away a LOT of pressure for both parties), refund policies and what is/isn't covered.

And some ideas for makers.. If you do not have a TOS written out, its a good idea. It helps clarify things and streamline your commissions process so there's less gray area and more structure. You will also have something to fall back on in case you have a difficult customer (which certainly does happen!)

[deepblue]

I suppose that leaves the responsibility in our hands to speak up and warn fellow mers when we see them heading toward something questionable.

I do this whenever I can. On FB groups, in my own small circles of friends, I always speak up when someone talks about wanting a tail from particular tailmakers or from tailmakers charging too little for what they are claiming to be producing. I link them to reviews here, and encourage them to do their research, while not outright saying, 'No, don't do it!" I never insult the tailmaker or their choice, but I am honest about the general consensus or majority of reviews.

And you know what? Most of the time I receive only annoyance and resentment from it. They see it as unsolicited advice (which it is, really) assuming they know nothing, but if they did know, they wouldn't be lauding so-and-so's work when so many people in the community know the trouble with it. I won't stop speaking up, but if more people would be open to the fact that maybe their excitement exceeds their knowledge, they'd stop getting ripped off. And there's no reason for people to be so bent out of shape when someone says, "Oh, hey- that tailmaker has a really bad reputation for this or that, please check it out here."

[Lotus the Mermaid]

I do this whenever I can. On FB groups, in my own small circles of friends, I always speak up when someone talks about wanting a tail from particular tailmakers or from tailmakers charging too little for what they are claiming to be producing. I link them to reviews here, and encourage them to do their research, while not outright saying, 'No, don't do it!" I never insult the tailmaker or their choice, but I am honest about the general consensus or majority of reviews.

And you know what? Most of the time I receive only annoyance and resentment from it. They see it as unsolicited advice (which it is, really) assuming they know nothing, but if they did know, they wouldn't be lauding so-and-so's work when so many people in the community know the trouble with it. I won't stop speaking up, but if more people would be open to the fact that maybe their excitement exceeds their knowledge, they'd stop getting ripped off. And there's no reason for people to be so bent out of shape when someone says, "Oh, hey- that tailmaker has a really bad reputation for this or that, please check it out here."
Yes! That's a wonderful point. I see that nearly every time I've seen a mer being informed of the risks of a particular tail maker. I'm glad you aren't going to give up, but I agree, that reaction needs to change. Us mermaids need to learn to trust each other. Thank you for posting that!! :clap: You rock!

[AniaR]

I still get people messaging me about mertailor. Lol. I saw your horrid review but would you recommend him?? Lol!!

[Cordelia]

Wow. :eyepop:

It would be difficult to draft something of this magnitude to cover state-to-state let alone country-to-country. While it is really sad to see people not get what they expect/pay for, I agree with Raina. There are plenty of reviews online and as a consumer, it is up to the individual to do their own research.

[Mermaid Alea]

And you know what? Most of the time I receive only annoyance and resentment from it. They see it as unsolicited advice (which it is, really) assuming they know nothing, but if they did know, they wouldn't be lauding so-and-so's work when so many people in the community know the trouble with it. I won't stop speaking up, but if more people would be open to the fact that maybe their excitement exceeds their knowledge, they'd stop getting ripped off. And there's no reason for people to be so bent out of shape when someone says, "Oh, hey- that tailmaker has a really bad reputation for this or that, please check it out here."

On another forum I am on I see this too. It gets very frustrating when someone shows up and does not attempt to do their research on a bird before they buy it. Recently we have been having new people show up asking if there is a surgery to have a peacock's voice removed!? I keep telling them if they or their neighbors can't stand the noise they shouldn't get peacocks and then I list alternative birds they could get that are not loud. Anyways what I am getting at is this happens all over the place. Not just in mermaiding, cosplay, costumery, etc.

All we can do, as others have said, is to inform new people. It is their fault if they do not put forth the effort to research before they buy. I have no idea why so many people don't want to do their research especially when buying an animal. While it gets frustrating seeing people disregard your advise, you should always keep trying to help people make an informed decision because there are those out there who will value your advise and take it to heart.

While it is unfortunate that people have to worry about getting cheated by some tailmakers that can be said for other businesses too - there are some you have to steer clear of. There are even certain people we have to steer clear of in life. While the fantasy allure of a mermaid or merman tail might have people blinded, they need to remember that we are not in a perfect world and some tailmakers will make your fantasy a nightmare.

If only we had such a great review system on the other forum I am on! I really do like the way tailmaker reviews are set up on this site. I think people go into very good descriptions in their reviews. I googled 'mertailor reviews' and the first listing was Mernetwork! That is wonderful!

I do agree thought that it is very sad to see people get poorly made tails and there is an issue. I think that some tailmakers have some things they need to work out and they need to learn to appreciate customers more and treat every tail like it was a tail they were making for themselves. On the other hand to me it seems some tailmakers are doing a great job making people's dreams come true and I can just imagine how hard it would be dealing with tough customers, etc.

[Starfrit]

Let me just start with this: I've said it here on the forums before, but one thing about the tailmaking community that absolutely HORRIFIES me is that nobody has a damn contract or a Terms of Service Agreement that the customer has to look over and agree to before the transaction even begins. These agreements are there to save the asses of both the artist AND the customer is something goes wrong, and is a GREAT way to get a feel for the kind of person you're working with and help you decide if this maker is someone you'll do well with or not. You can tell a LOT about a person by the policies and wording if their TOS.

Like, in about every other form of art industry— from graphic design, to game character design, to comics and costumes— EVERYONE HAS A TOS BECAUSE YOU'RE A BLOODY IDIOT NOT TO. This is basic business shit. If you're a tailmaker, and you shag up like Fishbutts or Kanti or Jesse have, and you have no contract, you can't enforce shit, you're boned in court and it's your own bloody fault. You don't get into a business of handling thousands of dollars per transaction and not give yourself and your clients the most basic fucking protection. If you don't see a need to cover your own hide with a written TOS, you shouldn't get into the business. You're asking for hell from clients, and maybe you'll deserve it.

That said: Clients approaching makers with their own contracts for the artist to sign doesn't work in ANY industry of this kind. You're approaching THEM for THEIR service, the contract is on THEM. Makers don't have to sign contracts written up by potential clients because A) half of the time, client-based contracts are utter nonsense because said client knows jack shit about the law, or B) the client's contract is full of seedy shit intended to inevitably screw over the artist in favor of the client. Many makers aren't fully informed of their rights as artists and product-makers, and the types of clients who approach them with premade contract are more often than not aware of that, and want to take advantage of that.

THESE CONTRACTS ARE NOT 100% LEGALLY BINDING AND MAY NOT HOLD UP IF TAKEN TO COURT.

Unfortunately, in these situations the best method of protecting yourself as a buyer is education and research. Ask any tailmaker you may be interested in buying from about obtaining a copy of their TOS (if it isn't publicly available). If they don't have a TOS, approach with EXTREME caution and know that you may have zero protection in the worst-case scenario. And for God's sake, DO YOUR RESEARCH. Spend months, YEARS if you have to, reading up everything you can find about your tailmakers. Reviews, discussion threads, articles, what people like about them, what they dislike. Don't let excitement rush you and get in the way of common sense and for [insert deity here]'s sake TAKE YO DAMN TIME, GIRL. This is how a lot of people wind up victim to scams or screwed up tails.

I had more to say but it's 3am and I'm dropping, haha. I'll probably expand on some things in the morning.

[Lotus the Mermaid]

I think the issue isn't that people aren't doing their research so much as too many people are too nice about receiving a bad product. Especially, in the mermaid community. So many people attracted to mermaiding are sweet and creative so they can be a bit too forgiving toward their tailmaker. I've seen it happen all too often: a mermaid posts about an issue that they're having with their brand new tail, but they ask, "How do I fix it?" Without considering writing a bad review. This is partly due to a lack of experience with the tailmaking process. They may think it's just something that happens to tails sometimes. Another issue is perhaps the fact that some meds get so excited over the prospect of their dreams coming to life in the form of a new tail that they can't bring themselves to be upset over their tail's imperfections. Research will certainly help quite a bit, but sadly, there are still those other factors involved which are hindering the word getting out about the abusers.

[SeaGlass Siren]

I may or may not be working on something in regards to this.

*twiddles thumbs*

[SeaGlass Siren]

Just so everyone knows, I have at least 10 or maybe 20 pages worth of legal content.

[PearlieMae]

I hope that people also take into consideration some of the issues tailmakers have with some clients, as well.

I'm not defending shoddy tailmakers, nor am I complaining (because all my clients are a dream to work with :D ), just playing Devil's Advocate.

Buying art - which custom tails essentially are - can be incredibly subjective. As a culture, we are so accustomed to buying manufactured items that show no touch of a human hand, and can be surprised when we get something that shows the hand of the maker. Handcrafted items are exactly that - handcrafted - and the item will show that.

If the tail is defective, it is incumbent upon the tailmaker to make it right. Period. But then again, customers need to do their research! If they did, no one in their right mind would throw a penny at some of these 'popular' tailmakers! Do your homework! Caveat emptor... Let the buyer beware.

[Lotus the Mermaid]

^ As an artist, I can totally relate.

[SeaGlass Siren]

ok so here is what i have so far

DISCLAIMER
The following form is provided for informational purposes only and is intended to be used as a guide prior to consultation with an attorney familiar with your specific legal situation. SeaGlass Siren is not engaged in rendering legal advice, and this form is not a substitute for the advice of an attorney. If you require legal advice, you should seek the services of an attorney.


[ COMPANY LOGO ]

AGREEMENT OF PURCHASE AND SALE
Mermaid Tail [Type of Tail]

1) THE UNDERSIGNED, ____________________________________
(hereinafter called the “Purchaser”), agrees to purchase from [Company name] (hearin called the “Vendor”), the mermaid tail to be created or completed by the Vendor (the “Tail”)

For a UNIT PRICE of $_____________________________

Dorsal Fin Option $_____________________________

Ankle Fin Option $_____________________________

Hip Fin Option $_____________________________

Fluke Option $_____________________________

Material Add On Option $_____________________________

TOTAL PURCHASE PRICE
(The “purchase Price”), inclusive of
[Your country’s sales tax,
abbreviated], payable as follows: $_____________________________

a) To the Vendor in the following amounts on the date indicated, by cash, paypal, credit, or debit, as deposits, or full payment amount pending completion or other termination of this Agreement and to be credited on account of the Purchase Price on the Due Date:

(i) The sum of [Deposit amount] by [payment of choice], with this agreement as an initial deposit;
(ii) The sum of [Deposit amount] by [payment of choice], with this agreement made payable [DATE] [number of days] after the date of this Agreement as a further deposit, pending completion or other termination of this agreement;
NOTE FROM SEAGLASS: depending how many deposits you choose to do, you can have as many dates as you want. Or if you’re paying all up front, you can remove this part of the agreement altogether.
b) The balance shall be payable by cash, paypal, credit, or debit to the Vendor directed, on the Due Date (as hereinafter defined), subject to adjustments as set forth in the Schedule 2.


2) SCHEDULES: this transaction of purchase and sale shall be subject to the terms and conditions set out in this Agreement and contained in the Vendor’s Statement of Critical Dates and Addendum to Agreement of Purchase and Sale (the “[Company name] Statement and Addendum”), annexed hereto as Schedule 1 together with the following additional Schedules:

Schedule 2 – Agreement General Terms and Conditions
Schedule 3 – Features
Schedule 4 – Purchaser’s Acknowledgements
Schedule 5 – Tail Design
Schedule 6 – Colours and Options
Addendum – Purchaser’s Requests for Incentives(s) if applicable

The Agreement, [Company name] Statement and Addendum, Schedules, and other attachments so listed being herein collectively referred to as the “Agreement”.

3) DUE DATE: Delivery shall take place concurrently with the Due Date, in accordance with the Vendor’s and the Due Date is subject to change in accordance with the [Company name] Statement and Addendum. The Due Date is in accordance with Paragraph 4 of Schedule 2.

4) TAIL: The vendor will complete the tail in a good and workmanlike manner in substantial conformity with the plans and specifications approved by the Purchaser, the Features and Design being attached hereto as Schedules 3 & 6 respectively and the progress pictures available for viewing though your Vendor’s choice of communication, subject to Schedule 2.

5) OFFER IRREVOCABLE: This agreement when executed by the Purchaser constitutes an offer to purchase irrevocable for a period of [number of days] from the date of execution and upon acceptance by the Vendor shall constitute a binding Agreement of Purchase and Sale. This Agreement of Purchase and Sale and/or its acceptance may be made by either party by electronic communication or similar system reproducing the original with the necessary signatures and initials, if applicable. The agreement of Purchase and Sale and/or acceptance shall be deemed to be made when the email is received by the receiving party. The person sending such electronic communication shall immediately thereafter send of deliver the original to the receiver.

By providing personal information to the Vendor on this form or on or with respect to any of the Schedules hereto, you are consenting to its use for the purpose of mailing the tail.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF the Purchaser has executed this agreement on [DATE].

__ Signature_________ Date: __________
Purchaser Name –

Mailing Address: ____________________
City: ____________________
State/province: ____________________
ZIP/Postal Code: ____________________
E-mail Address: ____________________



__ Signature_________ Date: __________
Vendor Name –
[Company Name]
[Company Mailing Address]
[Company E-mail address]

[PearlieMae]

That's a lot of work!

Good luck with that.

[Seatan]

I've been sick, so I haven't read every post in this thread, but I do have a comment to make about Raina's response: I understand your viewpoint, especially as a friend of Raven and an entrepreneur who gets to see your small business from the inside, but I am a believer that people who run small businesses need to be held to a certain standard--that's what makes capitalism work. The truth it, I just flat out don't feel sorry for tail makers, no more than I do ANY business owner (and I don't feel sorry for business owners!). They have created a business that they enjoy working at. Dealing with tough customers and deadlines and people who want to scam you is part of the deal--that's what you get as a business owner. When you get enough competition, being the best in customer service gets you ahead in the business world. So when I hear second hand about how tough things are for this tail maker or that tail maker, I honestly just sort of shrug. THEY DON'T HAVE TO MAKE TAILS. No one is forcing them to run a small business. They can get another job if they want to. Those kind of things are just a part of having a small business, as THEY are the ones providing a service for the customer--not the other way around. And the fact that we care so little for customer service in this niche really tees me off most of the time. I believe that businesses are there to serve their customers, not the other way around. Now yes, businesses must absolutely be protected, but a good customer experience should be the #1 goal in all businesses--especially small businesses.

The things I suggested are not huge, monumental things that make people go "OMG can we BELIEVE that they want to hold tail makers to that?!" All I suggested was a contract that states a certain level of quality, a certain amount of communication, and allows for the return of money if promises made by the tail maker are not met. These things are the basis of ALL small businesses. The fact that they DON'T exist when it comes to tail making is really sad. If I order a custom made suit, they address these things in the contract. If I have my car repainted, they address these things in the contract. If I have a home built, they address these things in the contract. Why should a tail be any different? It shouldn't. The fact is that many tail makers (especially new ones) want to call themselves a business but do not act like one. If they acted as real businesses do, if they fail THEY will be the ones taking the hit, not their customers. Because real businesses use contracts to protect both the customer AND themselves. At least in America, anyway. So it's just my opinion, but I feel like the tail making community in general is pretty unprofessional. I don't mean that as an insult to anyone in particular, either--it's just a general about the industry. A lot of tail making businesses are run by people who are artists first and businesspeople second, which makes the company have a tendency to look at things like artistic license with more forgiveness, when a business minded person would look at the business side. For example, look at the idea that a tail can take longer because it isn't curing at the expected speed. Well, from a business perspective that is a mistake on the part of the business. Silicone tail makers KNOW the requirements for a tail to cure. I work with silicone, and I understand what it needs to cure. So if you are going to be a true business, you should allot for this when you give an estimated time of arrival, either by having a climate controlled studio or by taking into account curing problems you may have in your area. In my more-business-than-art mind, that is something a real business takes into account rather than having it "surprise" them. So to me, that is not a valid excuse. Maybe if you call yourself an artist and you create art pieces with no deadline. But as a business who has taken someone's money and promised them a product in a certain amount of time... That is not an excuse to me.

This is just a difference in people's opinions on what the best laid business plans are, however, and everyone is free to run their businesses as they wish. I won't even claim my way is the best way, much less the only way, but I do think that I have a right to post on this without being smacked down by supporters of current tail makers considering how many people have SUFFERED because our community accepts people half assing it when it comes to promises versus contracts. I had business ideology nailed into me by my entrepreneur father my entire life, along with "the customer is always right--at least to their face" and "never promise what you're not 150% sure you can provide". I feel very strongly that it is a business person's responsibility to provide what they promised plus more rather than the customer's responsibility to understand. Not everyone has to agree with me--I am trying to make a point that is NOT targeted toward any single person, but rather just suggest that perhaps the way tail making has been run in the history of the community is NOT the best way of doing it (as shown by how MANY people get ripped off). Just because some people manage to pull it off (mostly because they are super awesome at what they do) doesn't mean that there isn't a better way that protects both tail maker and buyer.

[Seatan]

I hope that people also take into consideration some of the issues tailmakers have with some clients, as well.

I'm not defending shoddy tailmakers, nor am I complaining (because all my clients are a dream to work with :D ), just playing Devil's Advocate.

Buying art - which custom tails essentially are - can be incredibly subjective. As a culture, we are so accustomed to buying manufactured items that show no touch of a human hand, and can be surprised when we get something that shows the hand of the maker. Handcrafted items are exactly that - handcrafted - and the item will show that.

If the tail is defective, it is incumbent upon the tailmaker to make it right. Period. But then again, customers need to do their research! If they did, no one in their right mind would throw a penny at some of these 'popular' tailmakers! Do your homework! Caveat emptor... Let the buyer beware.

Pearlie, I agree totally. I think that should be something listed in the contract in order to protect the tail maker. Because you are EXACTLY right. And it goes 100% with what I am trying to say: That if we created contracts like real businesses do, all of these things would be covered and BOTH sides would be protected. Tailmakers from buyers that don't understand what they are getting and buyers from tail makers who don't know how to do the things they are promising.

[SeaGlass Siren]

That's a lot of work!

Good luck with that.
yeah. it's complicated. but it's doable. theres a way for the contract to protect the tailmaker and the purchaser.

[SeaGlass Siren]

i finished two pages of the second schedule.


SCHEDULE 2
Agreement General Terms and Conditions

1)GOODS AND SERVICES TAXES
NOTE FROM SEAGLASS: For this part you’ll need a lawyer as taxes differ from country to country, so are the laws of that country.
2)TAIL MATERIALS
a) The Vendor acknowledges silicone and neoprene should be smoothly poured and properly cured, and damages made to the tail should be amended accordingly.

b) The Vendor shall have the right, in its discretion, to make minor deviations from the plans and specifications and to substitute other material for that provided for, provided that such material is of a quality equal to or better than the material in the plans and specifications.

c) The Purchaser acknowledges that variations in colours, shades of colours, patterns, and textures of materials may occur in finishing materials including but not limited to silicone, neoprene, latex, fabric, paint, glitters, and sequins, and the Purchaser agrees that the Vendor is not responsible for such variations. Furthermore, the Purchaser acknowledges that tails are handcrafted and it is normal for paint to fade with prolonged use and frequent wear, and the Purchaser agrees that the Vendor shall not be responsible for any such fading. Materials and colours will be as close as possible but not necessarily identical to the vendors samples.

3)EXTRAS/OPTIONS/COLOURS
a) Any options, extras, or colours specifically ordered or chosen by the Purchaser and supplied by the Vendor will be paid for by the Purchaser at the time of signing a written request for the said work prior to the performance of said work or as may otherwise be agreed upon in writing. Once any such options, extras, or colours are ordered or chosen by the Purchaser, the Purchaser shall not be entitled to cancel or amend the order or choice.
b) The Purchaser acknowledges that all colour and finish selections must be completed within the times frames established by the Vendor at the time of execution of this Agreement failing which the Vendor may at its discretion choose any colours or finishes necessary to complete the tail making schedule.
c) The Purchaser agrees that if any option and/or upgrade ordered by the Purchaser is not reasonably available during tail making so that the Vendor, by seeking to obtain it, would be delayed in the construction of the Tail, the Vendor agrees to notify the Purchaser and, if reasonably possible in the opinion of the vendor, provide the Purchaser with an opportunity to make an alternative selection within such time frame as the Vendor shall determine. If at the Due Date, for any reason any option and/or upgrade has been omitted, the vendor at its option shall be entitled to install the option and/or upgrade after the Due Date or to credit the Purchaser on the Due Date with the amount the Purchaser paid for such option and/or upgrade or to refund such amount subsequent to the Due Date, and the Vendor’s liability shall in any event be limited to the said amount.

4)DUE DATE
a) The Purchaser shall receive the Tail and close the transaction on the First Tentative Due Date (as defined in the Statement of Critical Dates provided by the Vendor as part of the [Company name] Addendum) or such extended or accelerated date that the Tail is substantially completed by the Vendor for use by the Purchaser in accordance with the terms of this Agreement including, without limitation, the [Company name] Addendum (the “Due Date”).

5)WARRANTY
NOTE FROM SEAGLASS: This depends if your company chooses to have warranty, and what you want to include in the warranty. In any case, see below for what you should include in the agreement.
a) The Purchaser acknowledges that
(i) any defects covered in the warranties listed by the vendor shall be reported immediately in writing; the vendor shall only be obligated to repair defects actually covered in the warranties and for which it is responsible. Any applicable limitation periods shall continue to run notwithstanding any work which may be undertaken to remedy the defect;
(ii) the Vendor shall provide the Purchaser with a Tail Care Guide containing details of the warranties and applicable care and maintenance requirements;
(iii) all remedies available to the Purchaser are deemed to exclude:
(1) Damages for mental distress, loss of enjoyment, or loss of a personal preference or personal choice;
(2) Punitive and/or exemplary damages; and
(3) Substantial indemnity costs (you might want to run this over with an actual lawyer)

6)UPDATED PHOTOGRAPHS AND CONTACT
a) The Vendor shall remain in contact with the Purchaser with the dates to be established by the Vendor listed in the Vendor Addendum to deliver updates on the Tail.

7)TIME OF THE ESSENCE
a) Time shall in all respects be of the essence of this Agreement provided that if any date established by or in accordance with this Agreement or any date of termination of a period of time set forth to referred to in this Agreement should fall upon a day on which the Vendor cannot operate their business then such date shall be deemed to be the next following day on which the said Vendor can continue business.

8)HEADINGS
a) Paragraph headings are for identification purposes only and are not to be construed as limiting the content of the paragraphs. This Schedule and the Agreement to which it is attached shall be read with such changes in number and gender as may be required by the context.

[SeaGlass Siren]

ok so i have like 11 pages. i have 10 more pages to go of the vendor's addendum and tentative due dates.

let me know if anyone wants to see the full doc

[PearlieMae]

Tl;dr.

I'm an artist, not a "vendor". I don't sell a product, I create art on commission.

If you want a tail I make, you might have to wait until it's done. It's done when it's done.

Extenuating circumstances happen all the time. Deal with it.

I'll update when I can. I answer every email and post images when I can.

If you want to pinch pennies, there are plenty of tailmakers less expensive than me.

If you want to hold my fins to the fire and expect me to sign some "contract", you can swim on by.

READ my FAQ. READ my Payment page. It's all spelled out, simply. I accept PayPal and they have protection plans for both buyer and seller.

If I sound arrogant, sorry, but mine is a new and evolving business. I can't make the jump to doing to full time just yet, so I have to keep my day job. There may be setbacks. If that's not your cup of tea, I'm sure Mertailor will take your money, because he's all about volume sales. He told me himself.

And no, you just can't go out and get a loan like it's a loaf of bread.

I'm sorry for every person who has been screwed over by an unscrupulous tail maker/scammer, and hope they all get their money back for shitty tails or no tails at all. But to require tailmakers to agree to terms that are untenable just isn't going to happen. You can't make them. The only way to get a good product is to do your research, dig into reviews, choose well, and don't cheap out and expect high quality.

I'm trying to build a reputation as a quality tailmaker, and you can ask anyone who has placed an order with me whether or not I have good communication and customer service. Hell, I've even given away my entire process on this very website and now there are many mers making their own tails using my process when I could have kept it all to myself.

So, am I on a tear? Yeah, maybe. Will I have to come back and apologize for some of this? Probably. But I am offended by a lot of these proposals in that it's so heavily one sided.

[deepblue]

*applause*
Pearlie, you make perfect sense, I hope you don't apologize. Honesty is needed in this conversation, and you brought it from a tail maker's perspective.

[AniaR]

Tl;dr.

I'm an artist, not a "vendor". I don't sell a product, I create art on commission.

If you want a tail I make, you might have to wait until it's done. It's done when it's done.

Extenuating circumstances happen all the time. Deal with it.

I'll update when I can. I answer every email and post images when I can.

If you want to pinch pennies, there are plenty of tailmakers less expensive than me.

If you want to hold my fins to the fire and expect me to sign some "contract", you can swim on by.

READ my FAQ. READ my Payment page. It's all spelled out, simply. I accept PayPal and they have protection plans for both buyer and seller.

If I sound arrogant, sorry, but mine is a new and evolving business. I can't make the jump to doing to full time just yet, so I have to keep my day job. There may be setbacks. If that's not your cup of tea, I'm sure Mertailor will take your money, because he's all about volume sales. He told me himself.

And no, you just can't go out and get a loan like it's a loaf of bread.

I'm sorry for every person who has been screwed over by an unscrupulous tail maker/scammer, and hope they all get their money back for shitty tails or no tails at all. But to require tailmakers to agree to terms that are untenable just isn't going to happen. You can't make them. The only way to get a good product is to do your research, dig into reviews, choose well, and don't cheap out and expect high quality.

I'm trying to build a reputation as a quality tailmaker, and you can ask anyone who has placed an order with me whether or not I have good communication and customer service. Hell, I've even given away my entire process on this very website and now there are many mers making their own tails using my process when I could have kept it all to myself.

So, am I on a tear? Yeah, maybe. Will I have to come back and apologize for some of this? Probably. But I am offended by a lot of these proposals in that it's so heavily one sided.
*sings in the style of hozier* aaaamen! Aaaamen! Take me to church!

3 well known tail makers actually have messaged me about this thread thanking me for saying something. They found it insulting and ignorant .

Why can't we just say what the real issue is here? Mertailor who is a Russian roulette when it comes to tails but people keep throwing Money at him and hell never in a million years sign anything like this... And tail makers who bite off way more than they can chew cuz they see mertailor getting rich and they think they can get rich too while magically maintaining better quality, more output, non stop emails, and it just never ever ever works.

Let's stop acting like the problem is with anyone else. Its not like merbellas or finfolk lie about their wait times, refuse to fix issues, delay for no reason at all, change their TOS every other day, call clients liars, or steal money.

I'm sorry people can't handle the fact the best tails on the market take a long wait times and no time for hand holding. If you can't handle it take a chance on someone else but don't freak out when you decide to save a few bucks on someone with a horrible reputation.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Tl;dr.

I'm an artist, not a "vendor". I don't sell a product, I create art on commission.

If you want a tail I make, you might have to wait until it's done. It's done when it's done.

Extenuating circumstances happen all the time. Deal with it.

I'll update when I can. I answer every email and post images when I can.

If you want to pinch pennies, there are plenty of tailmakers less expensive than me.

If you want to hold my fins to the fire and expect me to sign some "contract", you can swim on by.

READ my FAQ. READ my Payment page. It's all spelled out, simply. I accept PayPal and they have protection plans for both buyer and seller.

If I sound arrogant, sorry, but mine is a new and evolving business. I can't make the jump to doing to full time just yet, so I have to keep my day job. There may be setbacks. If that's not your cup of tea, I'm sure Mertailor will take your money, because he's all about volume sales. He told me himself.

And no, you just can't go out and get a loan like it's a loaf of bread.

I'm sorry for every person who has been screwed over by an unscrupulous tail maker/scammer, and hope they all get their money back for shitty tails or no tails at all. But to require tailmakers to agree to terms that are untenable just isn't going to happen. You can't make them. The only way to get a good product is to do your research, dig into reviews, choose well, and don't cheap out and expect high quality.

I'm trying to build a reputation as a quality tailmaker, and you can ask anyone who has placed an order with me whether or not I have good communication and customer service. Hell, I've even given away my entire process on this very website and now there are many mers making their own tails using my process when I could have kept it all to myself.

So, am I on a tear? Yeah, maybe. Will I have to come back and apologize for some of this? Probably. But I am offended by a lot of these proposals in that it's so heavily one sided.
Honestly it's all legal wording I don't agree with either. I did put a disclaimer though that you don't have to follow through with it as I'm not actually a lawyer and it's completely up to you. But it's up here if anyone decides to use it.
Every company has a toas so that they're covered and don't get screwed over by people. There really is a fine line w tail making as an art and a business . I don't have a contract when I sell art either but if I ever decide to do this on a ful time basis I'd rather have some sort of contract done up.

its ok pearlie I totally understand your anger.

[AniaR]

Yeah sorry sea glass I wasn't trying to undermine your hard work good on you for doing it

[SeaGlass Siren]

also i forgot to add the rest of the schedules in last night so now that i'm reading the whole thread over, it really does look one sided so i'm super sorry if it seems that way.

another disclaimer: a reminder that you should seek legal counsel from someone who is actually a lawyer. this is what i've seen from contracts and this is just a suggestion. if you don't agree with it, cool. you can always take it and change things around so it suits you.


SCHEDULE 3

FEATURES

[COMPANY NAME: ITEMS BEING ORDERED]

Note from SeaGlass: Here is where you go crazy with tail and/or accessory features and all the amazing stuff it has depending on what the purchaser ordered. Recommended that the tail maker provides FULL NAMES OF MATERIALS they will be working with here, and what the purchaser will be receiving such as “smooth seams” or “seamless tail”… any special features they’re getting with the tail and that the add ons are made out of, what kind of scales you will have, stuff like that. Depending how many features you have, this page can end up a few pages long, or only half a page. It's pretty cumbersome and redundant if you already have an FAQ on what kind of features your tail has but... *sigh* this is to confirm the purchaser has read everything over and by signing this page they are absolutely certain of what they are getting, no questions asked.

Initials of the buyer needs to be at the bottom of the page.


Initials here



SCHEDULE 4
TAIL DESIGN AND PURCHASER ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
1)DESIGN:

Company to Insert Tail Design here in the above space.


2)PURCHASER ACKNOWLEDGEMENT:



Initials here
UNAVAILABILITY OF MATERIALS: All selections made are from the Vendor’s standard and upgrade samples. In the event of unforeseen unavailability and/or discontinuation of materials, the Purchaser shall be provided written notice of a reselection period of [NUMBER OF DAYS] from the time of receipt from the Vendor. If the Purchaser is unable and/or willing to exercise their right of reselection, the vendor shall select and install the items deemed of equal quality as necessary and the purchaser shall deem all selections acceptable.


Initials here
LATE CHANGE REQUEST(S): All selection documents, once submitted to the Vendor shall be deemed final and shall not be changed by the Purchaser. Should further requests be made by the Purchaser, it will be at the sole option of the Vendor. Should the request be accommodated, it will be subject to a labour fee of [COST]. note: most of the time i have seen the tail maker add extra things without a fee so this part is completely optional.


Initials here
COLOUR VARIATION: Variations in colours, shades of colours, and textures of materials may occur in finishing materials such as silicone, neoprene, latex, glitter, sequins, and paint. Material will be as close as possible but not necessarily identical to the sample image displayed due to variances in manufacturing.


Initials here
SILICONE/LATEX: Is any here an expert on any of these products who would like to add to this section?



Initials here

NEOPRENE:



Initials here

FABRIC:



Initials here

GLITTER:



Initials here

SEQUINS:



Initials here

MONOFIN:


Initials here
All upgrades, options, and prices are subject to approval by [COMPANY NAME]. I acknowledge that i have verified the accuracy of all colour selection codes/names/ types etc, indicated on the sales order. [COMPANY NAME] is not responsible should the information not record the selection of the purchaser correctly. This choice is irrevocable and authorizes [COMPANY NAME] to create. note: this part is highly questionable because i think it should be recorded and it's someone's tail.. but, i added it in anyway. you can remove it.




I understand and accept the disclaimers listed above.

Item(s) Ordered: ________________________
Purchaser Name: ________________________
Purchaser’s Signature: ________________________

Date: ________________________


SCHEDULE 5

Colours and Options

1) The Purchaser acknowledges the requirements for selecting colours, upgrades, and/or extras as further defined in Schedule 2, Paragraph 3.

2) The Purchaser acknowledges that due to the status of construction of the Tail, the range of upgrades and extras may be limited and may be subject to the Vendor determining, in its absolute discretion, what can or cannot be made available.

3) The Purchaser acknowledges that the responsibility for reviewing all information provided by the Vendor is incumbent upon the Purchaser.


Purchaser Name: ________________________
Purchaser’s Signature: ________________________


SCHEDULE 6

SAFETY AND USAGE


Upon receipt of the Tail, the Vendor is not responsible for any drowning related accidents, or death due to misuse of the Tail, and as such will not accept refunds.
Proper care and safe usage will be included as part of the Tail Care Guide.
NOTE FROM SEAGLASS: I’m honestly not sure what else to include in this section. if anyone has anything they want to add, be my guest.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Yeah sorry sea glass I wasn't trying to undermine your hard work good on you for doing it


it's all good raina (y)

[Seatan]

Tl;dr.

I'm an artist, not a "vendor". I don't sell a product, I create art on commission.

If you want a tail I make, you might have to wait until it's done. It's done when it's done.

Extenuating circumstances happen all the time. Deal with it.

I'll update when I can. I answer every email and post images when I can.

If you want to pinch pennies, there are plenty of tailmakers less expensive than me.

If you want to hold my fins to the fire and expect me to sign some "contract", you can swim on by.

READ my FAQ. READ my Payment page. It's all spelled out, simply. I accept PayPal and they have protection plans for both buyer and seller.

If I sound arrogant, sorry, but mine is a new and evolving business. I can't make the jump to doing to full time just yet, so I have to keep my day job. There may be setbacks. If that's not your cup of tea, I'm sure Mertailor will take your money, because he's all about volume sales. He told me himself.

And no, you just can't go out and get a loan like it's a loaf of bread.

I'm sorry for every person who has been screwed over by an unscrupulous tail maker/scammer, and hope they all get their money back for shitty tails or no tails at all. But to require tailmakers to agree to terms that are untenable just isn't going to happen. You can't make them. The only way to get a good product is to do your research, dig into reviews, choose well, and don't cheap out and expect high quality.

I'm trying to build a reputation as a quality tailmaker, and you can ask anyone who has placed an order with me whether or not I have good communication and customer service. Hell, I've even given away my entire process on this very website and now there are many mers making their own tails using my process when I could have kept it all to myself.

So, am I on a tear? Yeah, maybe. Will I have to come back and apologize for some of this? Probably. But I am offended by a lot of these proposals in that it's so heavily one sided.

See, I'm probably going to have to come back and apologize too because I am SO angry at this forum right now, and I know that posting while pissed doesn't lead to good things, but I wonder if people even HEAR what I am saying?!?!?! What I am SAYING is that anything that is PROMISED should be given. Period. End of story. Pearlie, you just stated that you tell your buyers exactly what they are gonna get: that you let them know there might be delays and that you as an artist do this and that--AND THAT IS 100% FINE. BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU SAID YOU WOULD DO. AND THAT IS WHAT WOULD BE IN *YOUR* CONTRACT!!! This whole thread has NOTHING to do with people who do EXACTLY what they say they will and EVERYTHING to do with tail makers who promise a bunch of shit and don't come through. THEY are the ones who need to be stopped! I know, for example, that if you get a Merbella's tail that you will likely have a year or so of wait time. SO I CHOOSE NOT TO BUY A MERBELLA'S TAIL. That is MY choice as a consumer because Raven doesn't pretend she'll get a tail to me next month and then make me wait a YEAR when she promised a month. You KNOW going into it that you will have a wait. So as a consumer I am able to choose NOT to purchase a tail from her. She is AMAZING, but the wait would drive me nuts. Unfortunately the last time I checked the tail makers that really give you an honest lowdown are in the minority---it seems like every other new tail maker these days ends up screwing people over. And THOSE are the people--the ones who are making promises they CAN'T KEEP that need to be held to a certain standard. And I am tired of the fact that you can't DARE to imply that the great and holy tail makers need to meet any certain standards lest you get smacked on the back of the hand by people. Raina, how about you let Raven talk for herself if she wants to talk? I'm guessing that it's NOT WORTH HER TIME since she is once of the people who does what she says and people have the freedom to choose if they want to buy from her if they wish. This thread doesn't even really apply to her. It's a way to try and protect INNOCENT PEOPLE who have been scammed over and over. But how dare we bring it up. Also, Pearlie, you are one of my favorite people in the world, but I don't see how you can go from being so ANGRY at these terrible tail makers who rip people off to being angry at the idea that all tail makers need to have a LEGAL responsibility to give people what they promise. It's like people are taking the idea personally, when all anyone is trying to do is protect people from getting SCREWED.

So yeah I'll probably have to come back and apologize to so we can be all nicey nice or whatever--but right now I feel like this whole forum is being really selfish, worrying about how the idea of coming up with a legal contract might affect them when, in truth, you have 100% ability to turn people away if they have demands that you're not interested in meeting and this contract might very well HELP people who are dealing with scammers. It's not an attack on honest tail makers--it's a belief that people should GET what they PAID MONEY for and were PROMISED. But heaven forbid we try and help people out by giving them some idea of a contractual, legal structure that might help keep them from being royally screwed over.

[Seatan]

also i forgot to add the rest of the schedules in last night so now that i'm reading the whole thread over, it really does look one sided so i'm super sorry if it seems that way.
.

It doesn't look one sided, SeaGlass. You are trying to help people, and I think you have done an amazing job. No tail maker has to sign any contract they don't want to, and it is very helpful to people to have some idea of what a contract could look like. Ignore haters and focus on the fact that having an idea of what a tail buying contract could look like might save someone's hard earned money in the future and make their tail dream come true.

[Seatan]

*sings in the style of hozier* aaaamen! Aaaamen! Take me to church!

3 well known tail makers actually have messaged me about this thread thanking me for saying something. They found it insulting and ignorant .

Why can't we just say what the real issue is here? Mertailor who is a Russian roulette when it comes to tails but people keep throwing Money at him and hell never in a million years sign anything like this... And tail makers who bite off way more than they can chew cuz they see mertailor getting rich and they think they can get rich too while magically maintaining better quality, more output, non stop emails, and it just never ever ever works.

Let's stop acting like the problem is with anyone else. Its not like merbellas or finfolk lie about their wait times, refuse to fix issues, delay for no reason at all, change their TOS every other day, call clients liars, or steal money.

I'm sorry people can't handle the fact the best tails on the market take a long wait times and no time for hand holding. If you can't handle it take a chance on someone else but don't freak out when you decide to save a few bucks on someone with a horrible reputation.

CALLING THREE WELL KNOWN TAILMAKERS: Why don't you contact me, who started this thread, or SeaGlass, who is writing the contract if you have some major complaint? Raina is awesome, but she does NOT speak for this entire community! I would like to hear from YOU instead of from Raina telling me that SHE has been contacted, like somehow we are a less important part of this community and she is the telephone to the mermaid world--not true! Everyone on this forum is equally as mermaid as Raina and deserves to hear things directly, not second hand. I find it pretty "insulting and ignorant" to call someone "insullting and ignorant" behind their back to someone they don't even know rather than to their face.

And Raina, I'm sorry that you feel you have to defend Raven at every single moment of the day when she doesn't need any defending. This isn't an attack on Raven. It was never an attack on Raven! It's in response to the posts where YOU and everyone else here who "sings hosier" and crap about tail makers on another post RIPPED PEOPLE APART for the HORRIBLE WAY they treated customers and mooned over how sorry you were that this happens. This is also not against Mertailor. I get it--you hate Eric. The guy is an ass. But there are SO MANY MORE people who rip people off with tail making than Eric. This entire thread is about people GETTING WHAT THEY ARE PROMISED. It is NOT about Merbella's. It is NOT about Mertailor. It is about giving people who are buying tails from new tail makers an understanding of what a contract to protect BOTH SIDES could look like. And I am SICK of being smacked down.

EDIT: You know what, I'm taking a few days off. I feel SO disrespected by this whole thread, especially the "roundabout behind the back" talk from whoever these three well known tail makers are. I am not represented by someone else. I am a mermaid myself. If anyone ever has anything to say to me, please, say it to ME, don't say it to someone else for them to present to the mermaid world second hand. I have no representative but myself. So if you want to say how INSULTING and IGNORANT I am, say it to ME, not to RAINA.

[AniaR]

I can't even with you honestly. Good luck with this. It'll never happen or work and all you do is end up insulting people and alienating. You wonder why the tail makers don't post? This crap right here. Entitled mermaids who think they know how to run a tail making business and feel the need to constantly express how it could be better . I'm not defending anyone, I'm referencing the tail makers I know. Not sure if you noticed but I have loads of opinions from being around since before 95% of tail makers started. Mess off with suggesting I'm talking on others people behalf. These are my words, my thoughts. Its like you think claiming that will some how defeat all my points.

Peace out.

[Seatan]

I can't even with you honestly. Good luck with this. It'll never happen or work and all you do is end up insulting people and alienating. You wonder why the tail makers don't post? This crap right here. Entitled mermaids who think they know how to run a tail making business and feel the need to constantly express how it could be better . I'm not defending anyone, I'm referencing the tail makers I know. Not sure if you noticed but I have loads of opinions from being around since before 95% of tail makers started. Mess off with suggesting I'm talking on others people behalf. These are my words, my thoughts. Its like you think claiming that will some how defeat all my points.



Peace out.

YOU are the one who came on representing OTHER people and claimed someone else said that I was "ignorant and insulting." You act as if you own this forum when you are really NO different from the rest of us! You are only ONE little mermaid in this community. You are NOT more important than anyone else. What makes you feel as if when people say something to you, they want you to come on and post it PUBLICLY in a forum? Don't you think if those three people we just have to GUESS at who they were wanted to actually say that to me that they would have done so themselves? What gives YOU the right to speak on the behalf of others, calling people names? YOU were the one who came on here and said something flat out insulting--not claiming it as your own but as representative of "three different tail makers." Well guess what? That HURTS people, Raina. No one wants to hear how they are being talked about behind their backs and left to GUESS who these people are, wondering if they are friends of theirs who are always nice to their face then go and say this behind their backs. Don't you see how HURTFUL saying things like that is? Call me entitled--fine--you are saying THAT yourself. I feel the same way about you sometimes. But please don't TELL ME what OTHERS have said then expect that not to hurt!

So just so you know, I am crying right now NOT because of ANYTHING to do with this thread but rather because I have no idea who might have said these hurtful things and whether or not my friends are truly my friends.

[Starfrit]

http://img.pandawhale.com/173416-Community-Troy-Pizza-Fire-gif-UI8B.gif

... What the hell happened here? I feel like a fairly basic thread exploded into needless drama and ridiculous overreactions...

[Seatan]

A note to the good tail makers out there, especially you Pearlie who I never meant to offend: I am really sorry that this thread went the direction it did. I'm not even sure how it happened. I guess it was just a case of what I was saying not coming off like I meant. All I intended was to try and protect the people who get hurt so badly all the time and it took such a horrible turn for the worst. I didn't mean to attack anyone--I was just trying to promote us working together to make sure that people don't get hurt in the future. I am not against tail makers--I want tail makers to be protected, too! I want everyone to have AMAZING tail buying AND selling experiences, and I just don't want to have to read anymore stories where people spent their life savings on something and didn't get what they were promised. That was ALL that was intended by this thread: to try and protect people from getting hurt. Instead just a lot of people ended up getting feelings hurt, myself included. Not at all what I wanted. The truth is we probably can't protect people, but it makes me feel so helpless to watch people get ripped off by people that I wanted to try. And that was really all I intended with this post.

[Lotus the Mermaid]

I think everyone had good intentions with what they were posting. That's what matters in the grand scheme of things, in my opinion. Things were worded badly and some things were said that shouldn't have been said, but that happens all the time. Especially, online. I think that a lot of good came out of this thread and the discussions that were made. I think we mers tend to avoid serious issues like this for fear of hurting feelings or ruining reputations. I think it's good to talk about them every once in a while. So yeah! Go team~ :)

[Cordelia]

That if we created contracts like real businesses do, all of these things would be covered and BOTH sides would be protected.

One of the problems that I am seeing here, is the "we" in this statement/argument. "We" cannot create a contract for a business to use. It is up to the business owners and their legal teams to provide a contract. Contracts that are drawn up would have to adhere to the laws within their state/country, which is why they would have to personally have a lawyer draft them. Many people starting small (or hobby) businesses may not be able to afford hiring a lawyer. This is something that, as their business grows, they will eventually want to look into.

I don't really see what there is to get all that upset about. Does it suck when someone posts about their terrible experience with ordering a tail? You bet! But as it has been stated before, it is up to the customer to do their research.


And THOSE are the people--the ones who are making promises they CAN'T KEEP that need to be held to a certain standard.

I apologize for adding so many quotes, but while reading through this particular post, the idea of taking a car in to a shitty mechanic popped into my head. There are certain - not small - businesses that I will avoid like the plague in my area for a variety of reasons, the fact that I know a great mechanic not withstanding. The problem in the tail-making world is not a problem that is exclusive to it, nor should it be treated as such.

I think that, as it has been stated before, Mernetwork has a great resource for people to research tail makers: the review section. There are also many other threads and discussions that can provide additional information on some of the lesser known tail makers, whether they are brand new or older and out of the game.

To SeaGlass Siren: I bow to your research skills! While I don't think that we can draw up a contract for a business, the information you are providing can help those who are thinking of starting up their own company and hoping to make it their full-time business. There may be information in those drafts that they just didn't think about from a business owner's perspective, or services they did not think of providing for their potential customers.

[Cordelia]

Tieri! That gif is killing it! This was exactly what I was thinking. :/


The truth is we probably can't protect people, but it makes me feel so helpless to watch people get ripped off by people that I wanted to try. And that was really all I intended with this post.

I think you are right, we can't protect others. It is a terrible truth, but a truth nonetheless. Trust me. Every time I see a new to the community post about their upcoming tail from youknowwho I just want to scream at my monitor. You hope that this time it will be different, but you know it's unlikely and at this point there is nothing you can do for them. :/ I hope I didn't offend you with the quotes above. I was just trying to point out the reasons that we cannot help in that way, but I do believe that the community is helping to provide needed information for future buyers. Beyond boosting the signal, I'm not sure how else we can help.

[Lotus the Mermaid]

Lol Yes. I love Community. <3

[Merman Arion]

Every time I see a new to the community post about their upcoming tail from youknowwho I just want to scream at my monitor. You hope that this time it will be different, but you know it's unlikely and at this point there is nothing you can do for them :( .

^ THIS. I hate it.

[Lotus the Mermaid]

^ Same. :(

[PearlieMae]

I appreciate all the hard work and intent that went into drafting that very detailed contract, I do. And I didn't intent to get anyone's fins in a tangle with my rebuttal. It just seems that reputable (and new) tailmakers are getting the onus put on them for the sins of some shoddy tailmakers. Think about how many tails have been ordered and received and turn out just wonderfully, and compare that number to the number of crap tails/ripoff artists...happy tail owners aren't going to be all over the forum gushing about how happy they are, they are all busy swimming. Unhappy folks and their supporters are all going to try and find a resolution, and as a community, we support each other in that respect. Fact of the matter it's that EVERY transaction is a risk, not just with mermaid tails, and it is incumbent upon the buyer to take the brunt of that risk. Historically, that had been true long enough for there to be a Latin phrase for it. CAVEAT EMPTOR - LET THE BUYER BEWARE.

I don't know how we careened into such hostility, I see that we are all trying to help each other get what we want.

I've hated seeing Yulia get jerked around again and again, and that abomination that Chris got sent was inexcusable. But I love how the mer community rallied to help them get something that they love and deserve, and I hope that enough information has been shared so that the unscrupulous tailmakers will not get any future business. But if someone doesn't do their homework and buys from them, well, they'll get what they get.

I'm a new to the business tailmaker, and I am just as frustrated that my orders are taking longer than I had anticipated, just as I am sure my clients are, as well. I hope to make up for that with providing a tail that will be far above their expectations to compensate for the long wait times.

I guess we will see.

Edited to add:
PS: not a day goes by without some mermaid DEMANDING information on how they can build tails just like mine but cheaper, some mer child begging me to GIVE them a free tail, or someone wanting me to move them to the top of the production line because they've accepted a gig before they've even put a deposit on a tail from me and want to take a year to pay it off AFTER they get the tail.

[AniaR]

Literally this forum is full of people talking about tail makers instead of talking to them. Its not like you asked or spoke to any of them before posting it. And I've literally said the exact same things everyone else did. Exact same concerns. But oh no... raina said it!

edit: Also I wanna add, you're saying you wanna hear from the tail makers. Well pearlie is here echoing everything I've said, along with her own concerns, and you basically give her the digital version of a pat on the head and a "oh not you" and throw in a it's not about X tail makers... but it kinda is with the way you've approached it.

[PearlieMae]

Literally this forum is full of people talking about tail makers instead of talking to them. Its not like you asked or spoke to any of them before posting it. And I've literally said the exact same things everyone else did. Exact same concerns. But oh no... raina said it!

:clap:

[Mermaid Lunette]

*pops in* just somethingon topic yet also not on topic.

LaNyah is a tailmaker that has a tail contract she wrote up. very nice lady, so if people specifically wanna go to someone with a contract then i would suggest her. she is on her and facebook, she is relatively new but has made 3 or 4 tails already, oh and she has run a buisness before so even though she is creative she has a bit more of a "buisness mind". so if mers specifically are looking for someone with a contract they could look her way (if buyers making a contract doesnkt work.)

[SeaGlass Siren]

Whoa.

0-0 what just happened

[AniaR]

Bingo. That's what happened. The same usual bingo [emoji14]

[SeaGlass Siren]

Aw dammit i wasn't ready! XD

[SeaGlass Siren]

[COMPANY NAME] [MERMAID TAIL] Tentative Due Date

Addendum to Agreement to Purchase and Sale
Delayed Delivery

This addendum, including the accompanying Statement of Critical Dates (the “Addendum”), forms part of the agreement of purchase and sale (the “Purchase Agreement”) between the Vendor and the Purchaser relating to the Tail. If there are any differences between the provisions in the Addendum, and the Purchase Agreement, then the addendum provisions shall prevail.

The vendor shall complete all blanks set out below.

Vendor


Full Name(s)
[COMPANY NAME]


Address
[City, province/state, postal code/ZIP code]


Email
[email]*




Purchaser


Initials here
Full Name(s)



Address
[City, province/state, postal code/ZIP code]


Email
[email]*




Tail Description








Information Regarding the Purchase

The Vendor shall give written notice to the Purchaser within [Number of days] after the actual date of Commencement of Construction



*Note: Since important notices will be sent to this address, it is essential that you ensure that a reliable email address is provided and that your computer settings permit receipt of notices from the other party.



[COMPANY NAME] [MERMAID TAIL] Tentative Due Date

1. Setting Tentative Due Dates and the Firm Delivery Date

(a) Completing Construction Without Delay: The Vendor shall take all reasonable steps to complete construction of the home on the Property and to Deliver without delay.
(b) First Tentative Due Date: The Vendor shall identify the First Tentative Due Date in the Statement of Critical Dates attached to the Addendum at the time the Purchase Agreement is signed.
(c) Second Tentative Due Date: The Vendor may choose to set a Second Tentative Due Date that is no later than [number of days] after the First Tentative Due Date. The Vendor shall give written notice of the Second Tentative Due Date to the Purchaser at least [number of days] before the First Tentative Due Date, or else the First Tentative Due Date shall for all purposes be the Firm Delivery Date.
(d) Firm Delivery Date: The Vendor shall set a Firm Delivery Date, which can be no later than [number of days] after the Second Tentative Due Date or, if a Second Tentative Due Date is not set, no later than [number of days] after the First Tentative Due Date. If the Vendor elects not to set a Second Tentative Due Date, the Vendor shall give written notice of the Firm Delivery Date to the Purchaser at least [number of days] before the First Tentative Due Date, or else the First Tentative Due Date shall for all purposes be the Firm Delivery Date. If the Vendor elects to set a Second Tentative Due Date the Vendor shall give written notice of the Firm Delivery Date to the Purchaser at least [number of days] before the Second Tentative Due Date, or else the Second Tentative Due Date shall for all purposes be the Firm Delivery Date.

Note from Seaglass: honestly all this in the first section of the addendum is really questionable. On the one hand the tailmaker gets to choose their own dates that work for them and there’s three back up dates in case the tail maker falls behind due to unforeseen circumstances (weather delay, family emergencies) so it provides the tail maker with extra catch up time if they need it. On the other, art takes time to do so it seems really unfair that there’s “due dates” and a “three strikes you’re out type of clause” but… hm… that’s what it says in the papers I’m looking over… thoughts anyone? I still have ten more legal pages to look over and there’s at least 9 sections all in fine print. I’ll have to look them over with a fine tooth comb tomorrow :\

[Mer-Crazy]

I kinda see both side of this argument, yes, I believe tail makers should be held accountable for poor craftsmanship, dangerous 'monofins' (or excuses for), uncured silicone, incomplete paint jobs, misrepresentation of products used, tail falling apart after short amount of time, etc, are all things that perfectly warrant a refund of monies paid. I also think a return of shoddy product should be offered in exchange for a refund. You don't get to complain that your product is crap, get your money back for it, AND get to keep the product. That's just unreasonable in my opinion. And it's absolutely ridiculous that people are getting misrepresented products and the makers aren't offering a refund in exchange for the product back.

HOWEVER, I agree with a lot of the other side too. Let the buyer beware... yeah, okay. If you decide to go for a new tail maker because you want a cheaper tail, when you know they are probably still working out things because there aren't any external reviews out there (besides the ones they'd mediate on their page) to go off, then you're taking a risk. It's not fair that you got a crappy tail, I agree. But you're taking a risk because you're maybe too impatient about wait times or saving up for a more expensive tail from a more reputable seller.

I agree that the tail making market is very competitive, for different reasons. I don't think it's really okay to go with someone like Raven, who is known for not communicating often and then complain that she's not talking to you enough when you knew before going with her it wasn't something she usually did. If you want communication all the time go with someone like Pearlie. Finfolk waiting time too long? Go with MerNation. I'm aware this wasn't the initial point of the thread, but I don't think it's fair for people to expect different treatment by a tail maker because they want it when they knew that's not how that particular tail maker operates. Mertailor, for example, most people here know that going with him is a gamble. You're likely not going to get the best service, there is like a 50/50 chance your tail is going to have something wrong with it. And we're still acting surprised by it?

I'm not saying it's fair or reasonable. I'm just saying that a lot of us know what certain tail makers are like by now and yet a lot of us still act surprised when they behave exactly as they've been behaving for a long time. Tail making is art, and I think a lot of people are expecting something more like a mass produced product, and maybe the faults don't always lie with the tail makers and we, as consumers maybe need to lower our expectations a little?

I think I'm done now... hopefully that made sense :)

[SeaGlass Siren]

For the record, my tail maker and tail are amazing. (Holla lily!) wait time was to be expected to be longer but time was shorter and she completed everything on time and fixed mistakes on my tail before sending out, and provided untouched photos of wip. Shorter wait time for her because I think I was the only customer at the time, so obviously the wait time would increase by a lot if she took on more orders. But she definitely knows what she is doing as she is already a business owner of another company of hers.

Just volunteered because I need to make SOME use of my librarian diploma.

edit: still looking over the papers (6am when i just woke up) and I think tail makers can avoid using the tentative due dates" because like mer crazy said we all know the wait times of the tailmakers and how they operate.

second edit: hold up, there's a section in 2 and 5 to change dates due to unavoidable delays so it still ends up protecting the tailmaker. (7:40 now)

[SeaGlass Siren]

Yulia just showed me this. Finfolk just posted it up... looks like it's recent. but i love how short and sweet this is.

https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t35.0-12/11728052_1007454832607767_2072168236_o.jpg?oh=8ac5 f7310b931dcbb02a51b45b4a2c91&oe=559EF17F

[AniaR]

I kinda see both side of this argument, yes, I believe tail makers should be held accountable for poor craftsmanship, dangerous 'monofins' (or excuses for), uncured silicone, incomplete paint jobs, misrepresentation of products used, tail falling apart after short amount of time, etc, are all things that perfectly warrant a refund of monies paid. I also think a return of shoddy product should be offered in exchange for a refund. You don't get to complain that your product is crap, get your money back for it, AND get to keep the product. That's just unreasonable in my opinion. And it's absolutely ridiculous that people are getting misrepresented products and the makers aren't offering a refund in exchange for the product back.

HOWEVER, I agree with a lot of the other side too. Let the buyer beware... yeah, okay. If you decide to go for a new tail maker because you want a cheaper tail, when you know they are probably still working out things because there aren't any external reviews out there (besides the ones they'd mediate on their page) to go off, then you're taking a risk. It's not fair that you got a crappy tail, I agree. But you're taking a risk because you're maybe too impatient about wait times or saving up for a more expensive tail from a more reputable seller.

I agree that the tail making market is very competitive, for different reasons. I don't think it's really okay to go with someone like Raven, who is known for not communicating often and then complain that she's not talking to you enough when you knew before going with her it wasn't something she usually did. If you want communication all the time go with someone like Pearlie. Finfolk waiting time too long? Go with MerNation. I'm aware this wasn't the initial point of the thread, but I don't think it's fair for people to expect different treatment by a tail maker because they want it when they knew that's not how that particular tail maker operates. Mertailor, for example, most people here know that going with him is a gamble. You're likely not going to get the best service, there is like a 50/50 chance your tail is going to have something wrong with it. And we're still acting surprised by it?

I'm not saying it's fair or reasonable. I'm just saying that a lot of us know what certain tail makers are like by now and yet a lot of us still act surprised when they behave exactly as they've been behaving for a long time. Tail making is art, and I think a lot of people are expecting something more like a mass produced product, and maybe the faults don't always lie with the tail makers and we, as consumers maybe need to lower our expectations a little?

I think I'm done now... hopefully that made sense

You're totally on pointe. And no one is arguing the actual issue here. I think what I and many others express is that this solution isn't a solution, it'll cause more problems. It's not a matter of not seeing her side, I think all of us who oppose the idea have bent over backwards to say yes we agree there's a problem. We'd be idiots not to. :p


For the record, my tail maker and tail are amazing. (Holla lily!) wait time was to be expected to be longer but time was shorter and she completed everything on time and fixed mistakes on my tail before sending out, and provided untouched photos of wip. Shorter wait time for her because I think I was the only customer at the time, so obviously the wait time would increase by a lot if she took on more orders. But she definitely knows what she is doing as she is already a business owner of another company of hers.

Yes your tail is stunning and I am so happy you finally have a silicone!

[AniaR]

Yulia just showed me this. Finfolk just posted it up... looks like it's recent. but i love how short and sweet this is.

https://scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t35.0-12/11728052_1007454832607767_2072168236_o.jpg?oh=8ac5 f7310b931dcbb02a51b45b4a2c91&oe=559EF17F

Last i heard this was in email but now they actually make you check a box. I've also had a similar one for hiring our company for about 2 years where people have to select the box, and then I have an additional form to fill out. Mertailor has something similar.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Even if you have like a check box i think it's still something!
It's definitely a lot better than the pages upon pages I'm typing and still gives allowance for dates and payment plans. Every information would be written in email as well so in theory there wouldn't be any issues because it was written, and they made you check the agreement box so legally you are covered if the buyer decides to be nasty.

Finfolk's is basically my 11 contract pages condensed into literally three sentences.

[Mermaid Galene]

Finfolk's new form is awesome. I think it's critically important that both sides, the tailmakers and the clients, have the same expectations. It's critically important that the facts be laid out so that this is possible. Consumers in all areas of commerce need to thoroughly investigate the products they consider buying and make informed choices. Creators of products need to be honest and communicative to the best of their abilities, and clients need to understand that circumstances can limit those abilities. As difficult and sticky as these simple-sounding guidelines can be, this community's efforts to promote and clarify them is a Very Good Thing.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Another disclaimer: i'm not a lawyer, seek counsel from a real one, ALL THIS is just what I found, you know the drill by now.



2. Changing the Firm Delivery Date – Three Ways

(a) The Firm Delivery Date, once set or deemed to be set in accordance with section 1, can be changed only:
(i) by the Vendor setting a Delayed Due Date in accordance with section 3;
(ii) by the mutual agreement of the Vendor and Purchaser in accordance with section 4; or
(iii) as the result of an Unavoidable Delay of which proper written notice is given in accordance with section 5.
(b) If a new Firm Delivery Date is set in accordance with section 4 or 5, then the new date is the “Firm Delivery Date” for all purposes in this Addendum.

3. Changing the Firm Delivery Date – By setting a Delayed Delivery Date

(a) If the Vendor cannot Close on the Firm Delivery Date and sections 4 and 5 do not apply, the Vendor shall select and give written notice to the Purchaser of a Delayed Delivery Date in accordance with this section.
(b) The Delayed Delivery Date may be any business day after the date the Purchaser received written notice of the Delayed Delivery Date but not later than the Outside Delivery Date
(c) The Vendor shall give written notice to the Purchaser of the Delayed Delivery Date as soon as the Vendor knows that it will be unable to close on the Firm Delivery Date. If notice of a new Delayed Delivery Date is not given by the Vendor before the Firm Delivery Date, then the new Delayed Delivery Date shall be deemed to be the date which is [number of days] after the Firm Delivery Date.
(d) After the Delayed Delivery Date is set, if the Vendor cannot deliver on the Delayed Delivery Date, the Vendor shall select and give written notice to the Purchaser of a new Delayed Delivery Date, unless the delay arises due to unavoidable delay under section 5 or is mutually agreed upon under section 4, in which case the requirements of those sections must be met. Paragraphs (b) and (c) above apply with respect to the setting of the new Delayed Delivery Date.
(e) Nothing in this section affects the right of the Purchaser or Vendor to terminate the Purchase Agreement on the bases set out in section 10.
4. Changing Critical Dates - By Mutual Agreement

(a) This Addendum sets out a framework for setting, extending, and/or accelerating Critical Dates, which cannot be altered contractually except as set out in this section 4. Any amendment not in accordance with this section is voidable at the option of the Purchaser.
(b) The Vendor and Purchaser may at any time, after signing the Purchase Agreement, mutually agree in writing to accelerate or extend any of the Critical Dates. Any amendment which accelerates or extends any of the Critical Dates must be included in the following provisions:
(i) the Purchaser and Vendor agree that the amendment is entirely voluntary – the Purchaser has no obligation to sign the amendment and each understands that this purchase transaction will still be valid if the Purchaser does not sign this amendment;
(ii) the amendment includes a revised Statement of Critical Dates which replaces the previous Statement of Critical Dates;
If the Purchaser for his or her own purposes requests a change of the Firm Delivery Date for the Delayed Delivery Date, then subparagraphs (b)(i) and (iii) above shall not apply.
(c) A Vendor is permitted to include a provision in the Purchase Agreement allowing the Vendor a one-time unilateral right to extend a Firm Delivery Date or Delayed Delivery Date, as the case may be, for one (1) Business Day to avoid the necessity of tender where a Purchaser is not ready to complete the transaction on the Firm Delivery Date or Delayed Delivery Date, as the case may be.
(d) The Vendor and Purchased may agree in the Purchase Agreement to any unilateral extension or acceleration right that are for the benefit of the Purchaser.

5. Extending Dates – Due to Unavoidable Delay

(a) If Unavoidable Delay occurs, the Vendor may extend Critical Dates by no more than the length of the Unavoidable Delay Period, without the approval of the Purchaser.
(b) If the Vendor wises to extend Critical Dates on account of Unavoidable Delay, the Vendor shall provide written notice to the Purchaser setting out a brief description of the Unavoidable Delay, and an estimate duration of the delay. Once the Vendor knows or ought reasonably to know that an Unavoidable Delay has commenced, the Vendor shall provide written notice to the Purchaser by the earlier of: [number of days] thereafter; and the next Critical Date.
(c) As soon as reasonably possible, and no later than 20 days after the Vendor knows or ought reasonably to know that an Unavoidable Delay has concluded, the Vendor shall provide written notice to the purchaser setting out a brief description of the Unavoidable Delay, identifying the date of its conclusion, and setting new Critical Dates. The new Critical Dates are calculated by adding to the them next Critical Dates the number of days of the Unavoidable Delay period (the other Critical Dates changing accordingly), provided that the firm delivery date or delayed delivery date, as the case may be, must be at least [number of days] after the day of giving notice unless the parties agree otherwise. Either the Vendor or the purchaser may request in writing an earlier Firm Delivery Date or Delayed Delivery Date, and the other party’s consent to the earlier date shall not be unreasonably withheld.
(d) If the Vendor fails to give written notice of the conclusion of the Unavoidable Delay in the manner required by paragraph (c) above, then the notice is ineffective, and the existing Critical Dates are unchanged.
(e) Any notice of setting new Critical Dates given by the Vendor under this section shall include an updated revised Statement of Critical Dates.

[SeaGlass Siren]

all the information on dates and pushing out dates i'm pretty sure should already be somewhere on the tailmaker's FAQ. all this fine print, i'm gonna assume, is to make sure the buyer knows how it all works.

[RomanLaveau]

Lol let me finish law school, and I'd love to help all the wronged Mers get their justice. It's so sad and frustrating to see this wrong go unpunished!

[Sherielle]

I just read about the guy who bought a guppy tail from MC for his nine year old son (who raised the money himself) and Jesse basically has stolen the money. It breaks my heart. I want to do something for the kid,

[Lotus the Mermaid]

I just read about the guy who bought a guppy tail from MC for his nine year old son (who raised the money himself) and Jesse basically has stolen the money. It breaks my heart. I want to do something for the kid,

That's awful!! Where did you read about it, if I may ask? :(

[Sherielle]

http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?11354-Refunds/page2
Makes me want to have a crowdfund or something to get that kid a tail

[Lotus the Mermaid]

http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?11354-Refunds/page2
Makes me want to have a crowdfund or something to get that kid a tail

My thoughts exactly! I'll message his dad and see if that would cheer him up. Poor thing.
At least, if he could get that money back, he could start saving from where he left off!

[RomanLaveau]

My thoughts exactly! I'll message his dad and see if that would cheer him up. Poor thing.
At least, if he could get that money back, he could start saving from where he left off!
let me know how the dad feels, I would definitely donate so this kid can get his money back and find an actual tailmaker not some douche who steals from children. :shame:

[Lotus the Mermaid]

let me know how the dad feels, I would definitely donate so this kid can get his money back and find an actual tailmaker not some douche who steals from children. :shame:

I will! It looks like he made his account for that one post so I'm not sure if he'll see my message, but I hope so!
I'd be willing to donate, too!!

[AniaR]

Yeah I'd help with that

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[Merman Dan]

Count me in. To deprive the world of a merman is one thing - we're woefully outnumbered to begin with. To crush a little boy's dreams is heartless and unforgivable.

[Merman Arion]

I'm willing to donate as well. Let's do some magic! :)

[Madison MerFaerie]

I hope you get a response, Lotus! I am willing to donate as well.

[Sherielle]

Let us know!

[Lotus the Mermaid]

I will, I promise! :D

[Lotus the Mermaid]

Jeff replied on behalf his son!!

He said he is not going to give up on getting his money back from Jesse, but he appreciates our offer of help! I let him know there are several mers willing to donate to help Merman Tyler and I asked him to keep me posted! :)

[MermaidRaegan]

If not, I'm sure that there are plenty of mers who would be happy to sponsor a gofundme or similar project, myself included. Stealing from a child is a whole new level of wrong.

[PhaylennMurúch]

I know I'm late to the game but I'm one of the people who took a chance on a tailmaker without a contract (and using Paypal gift to send money without the transaction fee) and was originally quoted 6-8 weeks for delivery of a neoprene tail (from final payment) and has waited 8 MONTHS from final payment with a tentative ship date of maybe tomorrow or monday (after a tentative ship date of the end of May, end of August, end of September, Middle of October, and yesterday or today). From someone who I recently found out regularly takes over a year to make a neoprene tail. Shit, I know I'm going to love my tail but if I hadn't jumped in on this and kept saving I'd have the funds to buy a silicone tail by now.

I think that the takeaway should be to dig a little deeper and get more than three opinions on the tailmaker, talk TO the tailmaker and read the whole agreement.

[AniaR]

:( sorry to hear that

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

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[xaccer2]

Phot (http://galvanometric.ru/t/450342)

[xaccer2]

альб (http://gangforeman.ru/t/763407)

[xaccer2]

Сага (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/944667)

[xaccer2]

Pens (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1143257)

[xaccer2]

Лите (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/686805)

[xaccer2]

Ð*оди (http://gascautery.ru/t/1041241)

[xaccer2]

Cont (http://gashbucket.ru/t/463820)

[xaccer2]

Mart (http://gasreturn.ru/t/977012)

[xaccer2]

DISC (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/566633)

[xaccer2]

Мо�к (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1160269)

[xaccer2]

�тол (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/1067999)

[xaccer2]

Ян�о (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/815973)

[xaccer2]

Моро (http://geartreating.ru/t/815365)

[xaccer2]

6561 (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/741276)

[xaccer2]

Кита (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/560329)

[xaccer2]

Fisk (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/574453)

[xaccer2]

Gare (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/301382)

[xaccer2]

Лебе (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/725725)

[xaccer2]

Вишн (http://getthebounce.ru/t/265502)

[xaccer2]

Carl (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/833731)

[xaccer2]

Ки�е (http://habituate.ru/t/1001794)

[xaccer2]

Brut (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/449683)

[xaccer2]

трет (http://hackworker.ru/t/862926)

[xaccer2]

Will (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/853959)

[xaccer2]

англ (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/853697)

[xaccer2]

Доле (http://hailsquall.ru/t/659141)

[xaccer2]

Lotu (http://hairysphere.ru/t/561127)

[xaccer2]

�ерт (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/565198)

[xaccer2]

�ерт (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/563307)

[xaccer2]

Frik (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/564790)

[xaccer2]

Lotu (http://haltstate.ru/t/561129)

[xaccer2]

мона (http://handcoding.ru/t/841047)

[xaccer2]

Tesc (http://handportedhead.ru/t/1027749)

[xaccer2]

Nive (http://handradar.ru/t/562769)

[xaccer2]

Шраг (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/518589)

[xaccer2]

Jere (http://hangonpart.ru/t/767126)

[xaccer2]

Carl (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/565773)

[xaccer2]

�ерт (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/557562)

[xaccer2]

Comi (http://hardasiron.ru/t/566920)

[xaccer2]

Regg (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/567596)

[xaccer2]

Ермо (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/568143)

[xaccer2]

Barb (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/187110)

[xaccer2]

Circ (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/602270)

[xaccer2]

Nora (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/781876)

[xaccer2]

Карп (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/379978)

[xaccer2]

Chri (http://headregulator.ru/t/791995)

[xaccer2]

Hors (http://heartofgold.ru/t/1026877)

[xaccer2]

Цвет (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/556965)

[xaccer2]

Добо (http://heatinggas.ru/t/1059424)

[xaccer2]

Фир� (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/834372)

[xaccer2]

�тен (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/603394)

[xaccer2]

молн (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/606160)

[xaccer2]

GIUD (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/608290)

[xaccer2]

Eleg (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/604460)

[xaccer2]

Vent (http://jobstress.ru/t/604387)

[xaccer2]

Gavi (http://jogformation.ru/t/635891)

[xaccer2]

�пох (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/795455)

[xaccer2]

Grou (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/1142095)

[xaccer2]

Уча� (http://journallubricator.ru/t/761900)

[xaccer2]

Скво (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/786662)

[xaccer2]

Jule (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/845800)

[xaccer2]

Meis (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/833721)

[xaccer2]

Си�н (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/815610)

[xaccer2]

Alex (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/812783)

[xaccer2]

Evan (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/770042)

[xaccer2]

Rond (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/610829)

[xaccer2]

�ожа (http://kentishglory.ru/t/833754)

[xaccer2]

Гиль (http://kerbweight.ru/t/816153)

[xaccer2]

мен� (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/606966)

[xaccer2]

Zone (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/609722)

[xaccer2]

Hono (http://keyserum.ru/t/849943)

[xaccer2]

Iris (http://kickplate.ru/t/293014)

[xaccer2]

Дубо (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/675869)

[xaccer2]

diam (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/606937)

[xaccer2]

Swar (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/610097)

[xaccer2]

неук (http://kinozones.ru/film/586)

[xaccer2]

золо (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/611811)

[xaccer2]

Happ (http://kneejoint.ru/t/606282)

[xaccer2]

Magn (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/885556)

[xaccer2]

Zone (http://knockonatom.ru/t/608568)

[xaccer2]

мен� (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/605673)

[xaccer2]

Глад (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/676158)

[xaccer2]

Zone (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1193317)

[xaccer2]

Иван (http://laborracket.ru/t/679861)

[xaccer2]

Цвет (http://labourearnings.ru/t/881703)

[xaccer2]

Luis (http://labourleasing.ru/t/888960)

[xaccer2]

Open (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/911315)

[xaccer2]

Коло (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/1050122)

[xaccer2]

Dolb (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/898942)

[xaccer2]

Zone (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/1185829)

[xaccer2]

обла (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/839242)

[xaccer2]

Patr (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/781469)

[xaccer2]

прак (http://laggingload.ru/t/830436)

[xaccer2]

Иллю (http://laissezaller.ru/t/841183)

[xaccer2]

Anto (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/818321)

[xaccer2]

Вайг (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/820642)

[xaccer2]

Дада (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/820844)

[xaccer2]

Пи�а (http://lamphouse.ru/t/853722)

[xaccer2]

Во�т (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/818736)

[xaccer2]

This (http://lancingdie.ru/t/806792)

[xaccer2]

�ика (http://landingdoor.ru/t/795896)

[xaccer2]

Ethe (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/1154013)

[xaccer2]

Федо (http://landreform.ru/t/986847)

[xaccer2]

Кемп (http://landuseratio.ru/t/842626)

[xaccer2]

а�пи (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/1013125)

[xaccer2]

Etai (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1160791)

[xaccer2]

Maut (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/589421)

[xaccer2]

ме�� (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/594)

[xaccer2]

клей (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/590200)

[xaccer2]

Stie (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1030877)

[xaccer2]

Прои (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452350)

[xaccer2]

Mabe (http://layabout.ru/shop/451913)

[xaccer2]

Geor (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/166327)

[xaccer2]

Бирю (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/105504)

[xaccer2]

Kawa (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/459636)

[xaccer2]

Луко (http://leaveword.ru/shop/459848)

[xaccer2]

Ruya (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/166733)

[xaccer2]

Кита (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/444362)

[xaccer2]

Vanb (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/194193)

[xaccer2]

Ruya (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/166749)

[xaccer2]

1773 (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/269478)

[xaccer2]

STAR (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/160099)

[xaccer2]

Sein (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/159847)

[xaccer2]

ARAG (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/613631)

[xaccer2]

(Лат (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/598143)

[xaccer2]

�емь (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/586)

[xaccer2]

Smoo (http://mp3lists.ru/item/586)

[xaccer2]

Symp (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/564245)

[xaccer2]

Rave (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/104772)

[xaccer2]

Jose (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/460858)

[xaccer2]

Туро (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/486678)

[xaccer2]

ме�� (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/167279)

[xaccer2]

Wind (http://navelseed.ru/shop/100950)

[xaccer2]

Kate (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/454674)

[xaccer2]

LANG (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/167424)

[xaccer2]

Smar (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/185606)

[xaccer2]

Бело (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/446612)

[xaccer2]

Jumb (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/108664)

[xaccer2]

Попо (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/95496)

[xaccer2]

Phil (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/98442)

[xaccer2]

Book (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/457913)

[xaccer2]

Choi (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571578)

[xaccer2]

real (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/148061)

[xaccer2]

ЛитÐ* (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/200806)

[xaccer2]

�ндр (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/147963)

[xaccer2]

Enha (http://onesticket.ru/shop/578461)

[xaccer2]

Deut (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/580368)

[xaccer2]

Stow (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/682758)

[xaccer2]

Туке (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/681051)

[xaccer2]

ЛитÐ* (http://palmberry.ru/shop/378719)

[xaccer2]

нало (http://papercoating.ru/shop/581891)

[xaccer2]

Черн (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/687750)

[xaccer2]

Штей (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1167073)

[xaccer2]

газо (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1167116)

[xaccer2]

прое (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1166087)

[xaccer2]

фель (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1168916)

[xaccer2]

у�ло (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1539041)

[xaccer2]

Кани (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/407369)

[xaccer2]

Петр (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/594063)

[xaccer2]

Jewe (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/595828)

[xaccer2]

�тер (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1068387)