Lack of "Mid-Range" Priced Tails

[Princess Kae-Leah]

It seems to me the tailmaking industry is split between the low-end fabric tails like Fin Fun, Magictail, etc. which are in the $100 range, and the high-end silicone tails which are in the four digits. I mourn the loss of Fish Butts because she offered a pretty realistic tail for around $400 if my memory is correct. I'm not looking to buy a new tail myself atm, but for other people, I really wish there were more "mid-range" tails in around the $300-500 range, more realistic than fabric but still much cheaper than Merbellas etc. There really seems to be a void in the market, as usually any product has a low end, a high end, and a mid range.

[Mer-Crazy]

Probably because a 'mid-range' tail would likely be neoprene and for some reason neoprene tails are very underused, no clue why. Because I highly doubt people would want to pay more that $400 for a fabric tail, and it's impossible to get a quality silicone tail under like $1500. So neoprene would probably fall into that 'mid-range' There is someone who makes very nice neoprene tails but I can't remember who they are or how much the tails cost.

My best guess as to why... We touched on it this morning, I guessed maybe because of the buoyancy, the fact you'd have to paint it, drying time possibly, the fact that you'd probably need a specialized sewing machine to sew it, sometimes finding the material could be difficult. That's all I can really guess for now

[Mermaid Mystery]

Mermaid Morticia makes neoprene tails but I don't remember her prices, I think like $400?

[Mermaid Mystery]

also I completely agree with this post, I got the mertailor basic silicone tail for like $530 a couple years back but that's as realistic as I've seen for that price

[Mer-Crazy]

Mermaid Morticia makes neoprene tails but I don't remember her prices, I think like $400?
That's who I was thinking of!

Also yeah, Mertailor probably has the only 'mid-range' priced tails, he also has the silicone flipper/ neoprene silicone body tail for about $800?

[Mermaid Mystery]

yeah it's around $800 unless you want a custom paint job, in the end I paid about $1,200 for mine. it's really heavy but it's lovely. the prices are raised a tiny bit every once in a while though.

[Fifi Tigg]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tiggs-Tails/840024989355048?ref=bookmarks ;)

[Mermaid Kassandra]

Actually also us from Mer-tails have a bunch of tails of a mid range price!

Some of them are also partial silicone (only the fluke it's made of silicone but it's full platinum cured we input it from America to be 100% sure is the correct one) 😁

You can see our prices from our official listing (visible only from PC thanks to Facebook!) that you can see here
www.facebook.com/mermaidKassandra

Look at the "Tail & Entertainment pricing" section 😉

[AniaR]

I was just talking to someone else about this!

[PearlieMae]

I've a mid-range on the drawing board, silicone/fabric hybrid body and a silicone fluke!

Just have to catch up with orders, first!

[Echidna]

That's fantastic news, Pearlie!

Can't wait until you get around to it.

[OrcaMatt]

This has been a thing for years. The problem isn't the lack of availability of mid-range tails per se, I think it's more the difficulty of the market segment that makes it unsustainable for long, so they don't tend to stick around.

Anything other than low-end fabric tails is going to be a fight on its own. I feel like people don't want to spend $400-$500 on 'just a fabric' tail, which is a shame, because there's still a lot of untapped potential in the high-end fabric tail market. But even then, they're still being subconsciously compared to realistic tails, even at twice the price, and that's always going to be the dream for people (Counterpoint: My Dream Tail(tm) is still a neoprene orca...a complex neoprene orca, but still, 'just a neoprene' orca :P )

Then problem then with realistics in this range is the number of shortcuts you have to take to come in at that price point with any sort of profit margin invariably lead to quality issues (remember coroplast monofins? Honestly I'm not sure those are really *gone*. Or how often somebody notices that plexiglass is way cheaper than name-brand polycarbonate), especially once you get out there a little and people go 'hey sweet, inexpensive realistic tails!' and the orders start pouring in.

How many disgraced mid-range tail makers have we had? It's a really tough segment. They all seem to follow a similar path: get too popular, quality slips, customer service falls by the wayside because they're trying to keep up, and they implode. Best case they get burnt out and simply quit, ideally without absconding with hundreds or thousands of dollars of commissions they don't actually intend to do :P

Can I indulge an uncharitable, questionably-accurate observation for a second?

<controversial_opinion &generalization=complete &based_on=nothing>

I think the a decent portion of the customer segment that flock to these midrange realistic tails don't do themselves or their tailmakers any favors. It's probably an unfair generalization but I always felt like it's the kind of younger crowd who buy (or are bought) these, and with that comes several unfairly-generalized pitfalls: they have extremely high expectations; probably their first tail so they're super-excited (as anyone would be); are unaware or unconcerned of the financial tradeoffs involved in bringing a cheap realistic tail to market (quality compromises, thin profit margins); and their financial situation makes the ~$400-$500 a much bigger deal than it will be in a couple of years down the road (thinking my situation in high or especially middle school - paper route! - vs. my situation now, not that I wouldn't be pissed about blowing $400 on crap, it just doesn't represent months down the drain). All this leads to huge expectation and a really low threshold for disappointment and feeling of loss when they thing they saved up six months for isn't all they had imagined it would be (obviously if they were outright scammed, that's different). I just think the problem comes when people don't realize what they're getting into or what tradeoffs are involved.

</controversial_opinion>

I think you CAN BE successful in this segment, you just need to take it as seriously as you would a high-end tail business and be really smart about it. You'd need a combination of neoprene tails, and honestly they'd have to be pretty fantastic, and probably what amount to ALEX tails (or the newfangled pro-grade tin-cure stuff, budget permitting). You'd need to throttle order volume, not get swept up in early success, grow *slowly*, position the crap out of the product in the context of the larger tail market, be super-responsive to inquiries, and most importantly manage client expectations.

This, I think, is one of the main killers of the upper-low-end and mid-range tail makers. You're not Merbellas For The Masses, no matter how much your customers want you to be. If you're upfront with people and say "Look, you paid ~$400 for this...that's a decent chunk of change, but don't expect a Sistine Chapel paint job or Large Hadron Collider-level engineering because I'm clearing like $50 for the ten hours this took. You'll get a solid season, maybe two if you're careful, of fun with this thing at what probably amounts to better fun per dollar than a $400 game console, then it will fall apart and you'll move on and get something better now that you know you're into this. What you have here is a *good first tail*." You'll probably avoid a LOT of problems.

[Sherielle]

I would love love love to see some really elaborate fabric tails.

[PearlieMae]

Elaborate fabric tails would be very labor intensive and not a good ROI, unfortunately.

[OrcaMatt]

Yeah, that's the thing, an elaborate fabric tail would be labour-intensive with high materials cost, so they'd be expensive. Probably expensive enough that a lot of people are just going to go "You know, for another couple hundred dollars, I could have a lower-end silicone tail...." which is why I don't think we see a lot of *commercial* elaborate fabric tails, and a $400-$800 market dominated, such as it is, by lower-end realistic tails rather than really good fabrics. Shelly was in that neighborhood there, but nobody has really picked up where she left off (and indeed, that's quite an act to follow).

[Seraphina Suds]

I've a mid-range on the drawing board, silicone/fabric hybrid body and a silicone fluke!

Just have to catch up with orders, first!
OMG PLEASE. I'll make the drive to come be a scale pulling slave if it'll help! [emoji14]

Sent from my C6725 using Tapatalk

[Sherielle]

I didn't think you could really do a mid range silicone tail. The pricing of the silicone alone makes that prohibitive. Also, I see tailmakers starting to get away from partial silicone tails in general. I am thrilled to hear Pearlie say she has some in the planning stage.

[Aysun_the_Mermaid]

OMG PLEASE. I'll make the drive to come be a scale pulling slave if it'll help! [emoji14]

Sent from my C6725 using Tapatalk
^ this

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[PearlieMae]

Shelly? Any pics of her tails?

Alas, a silicone/fabric hybrid will be shiny, but the scales would be the illusion of scales on holographic fabric, so no scale-pulling. Besides, my mom has laid claim to that job and she's a Virgo, so I know her trimming will be PERFECT. ;)

I still have to make a prototype, so let's not get ahead of ourselves! :fallover:

[OrcaMatt]

I didn't think you could really do a mid range silicone tail. The pricing of the silicone alone makes that prohibitive. Also, I see tailmakers starting to get away from partial silicone tails in general. I am thrilled to hear Pearlie say she has some in the planning stage.Doesn't stop them from trying :P I think 'partial silicone', which always and forever to me will be code for 'bathroom caulk' whether or not that's true in a given case, is kind of on the way out mainly in light of the fact that flogging cheap 'partial silicone' (bathroom caulk :P ) tails has proven to be fraught with peril, so I think people are starting to learn from history and just not doing it. Though in my whole diatribe up there I was thinking 'partial silicone', for the most part, since historically that's what was used to cater to that segment since as you pointed out 'the real stuff' is expensive.

[Sherielle]

'partial silicone', which always and forever to me will be code for 'bathroom caulk' .Haha!!! Me too. :lol:

[PearlieMae]

<--- I swear I will always use 100% platinum cure Dragonskin from Smooth On! Whip me with an eel if I'm lying!

[OrcaMatt]

<--- I swear I will always use 100% platinum cure Dragonskin from Smooth On! Whip me with an eel if I'm lying!Scandal rocked the mermaiding community today when 'digging through PearlieMae's trash at night' revealed empty buckets of PlatSil Gel-10. A statement released by Polytek read in part "We don't get what the big deal is. Seriously you guys, they're like, basically the same thing." The statement went on to express appreciation for the mention in the tailmaking FAQ, despite that being "basically forever ago and not that it did any good obviously because here we all are", and expressed assurance that whomever wrote the FAQ is as handsome as he is brilliant, kind to animals, children, and old people, and a blast to hang out with at parties.

In other news, fishermen in Long Island Sound reported a record-low eel catch this week. "It's like something spooked them and they all ran for the hills."

[Celaeno]

:lol ^:

[PearlieMae]

Scandal rocked the mermaiding community today when 'digging through PearlieMae's trash at night' revealed empty buckets of PlatSil Gel-10. A statement released by Polytek read in part "We don't get what the big deal is. Seriously you guys, they're like, basically the same thing." The statement went on to express appreciation for the mention in the tailmaking FAQ, despite that being "basically forever ago and not that it did any good obviously because here we all are", and expressed assurance that whomever wrote the FAQ is as handsome as he is brilliant, kind to animals, children, and old people, and a blast to hang out with at parties.

In other news, fishermen in Long Island Sound reported a record-low eel catch this week. "It's like something spooked them and they all ran for the hills."

You retract that now our you'll find out first hand where the those minions...uh...eels are!

[OrcaMatt]

You retract that now our you'll find out first hand where the those minions...uh...eels are!Curses, you've discovered my one oddly-specific weakness: finding out the location of things first-hand.

[PearlieMae]

Hahaha! You write for The Sea Onion, don't you?

[Keiris]

Matt, you are too funny! Well, for what it's worth, I am nearing completion of a fabric/silicone hybrid. I was wanting to create something lighter and sleeker as an alternative to my full silicone tail for swimming in places smaller than the ocean. I have done a variance of Seavanna's method but with a full Dragonskin fluke and small decorative silicone fins as well. Right now I am working on an added blended waistband (silicone).
I haven't taken it for a swim yet to test it out, but it does look quite fetching laying on the dining room floor when the sun hits it! Pictures to come soon.

[PearlieMae]

That's almost exactly what I'm doing!

[Fifi Tigg]

31862
Already ahead of you all this is a silicone & fabric hybrid tail. Haha ;)

[Echidna]

Looks neat!
Interesting flukeshape.
I wonder what monofin fits in it?

Regarding elaborate fabric tails; I concur that fabric just doesn't hold up long enough, especially in chlorine, to justify intensive labour put in.
Painting realistic scales on my tails took many months, and after 4-5 swims, they faded so much they're hardly visible anymore. (The paint is supposed to be completely waterproof.)

So either I need to find another method, pre-printed fabric (and aside holographic print that fades even quicker, I haven't been able to find any), or I resign to wearing less-realistic looking, monochromatic fabric tails because they wear out just that fast. :(

[PearlieMae]

31862
Already ahead of you all this is a silicone & fabric hybrid tail. Haha ;)

Hahaha! You're absolutely right! How could I have forgotten?

What's your fabric base? Neoprene? Spandex?

[Fifi Tigg]

This was an experiment and was made with a mixed cotton type material with a small amount of stretch, it has an elastic waist which can be adjusted. I hope to get some footage of it in the pool soon ;)

[PearlieMae]

Me too! It should look amazing in the water because it's stunning on the table!

[Keiris]

That's almost exactly what I'm doing!

Hahaha Pearlie! Great minds......;)

[Dancing Fish]

My daughter and I want to try making silicone fluke monofins that have Velcro at the ankles for attaching interchangeable spandex tail bodies. She really wants to design fancy tails so we might try selling a few to friends, or try etsy. Not that I have big plans for going seriously commercial...it's more of an educational project for her. :). I don't know if that's what a serious mermaid with limited funds would want, though. (Though it looks really cool in my head...especially if you added a silicone coat to the spandex.)

[Ashe]

I'm glad you're thinking about doing that, Dancing Fish! I've played around with the idea of using a full silicone fluke (Maybe like Mertailor) and then having a spandex body. If done right I think it could look awesome :)

[Mermaid Momo]

I think the reason mid range tails don't exist is because to make a tail for $400 or so, the maker would have to either make the tail at cost, or they'll be paying themselves crap for working wage, especially for semi realistic tails. When I think about it, my tail, neoprene and sequins (and I didn't even buy enough sequins to cover more than the fluke) cost $175, now factor into that if I bought enough sequins to sequin the entire tail, the thread I used, maintenance on my machine, now what if I used good quality silicone instead of sequins? what costs will I have to factor into that? the time I took to perfect my craft? more work hours? do the tools I have to use require more maintenance? how much will it cost for pigments? Will I have to rent out a space to work?

[Celaeno]

^Exactly. Handmade things cost so much because of the hours involved in making them. To pay themselves a fair hourly wage, makers have to charge more for their product than most people usually expect. That's why I never say yes when people ask to pay me to knit things for them.

[PearlieMae]

The only way you could calculate that is to build a prototype and chronicle all your steps, time and materials.

I have done this very thing, an interchangeable fluke and body, but they were for parade (dry event) tails, and it worked quite nicely. I don't see any reason why it couldn't work with a swimming tail, you'll just have to engineer it so you can attach different bodies to your fluke and have them not gap while swimming.

I'm thinking a system where you lace the bottom of the tail body to a series of holes or loops built into the fluke. It might take a little effort to swap them out, but I think it would be fairly easy to do.

Here's a question...what is the 'mid-price' range? If a Fin Fun is around a hundred, and a pro-grade full silicone is at least $2500 and up, mid range would be $1000 to $1250, yes?

So, a full silicone fluke with polycarbonate monofin, silicone/spandex hybrid tail body (interchangeable), blended waist and two fins: $1125.00 with a six month payment plan...

I think it's doable. Not too heavy on the merfolk pocket, but enough to pay the tailmaker a fair profit.

Opinions?

[Dancing Fish]

I was thinking Velcro for kid tails because it'd be an easy way to get out of them quickly, but laces would definitely be better for adults. But then, my idea probably wouldn't be profitable only because I don't know many parents willing to shell out (har har) more than $100 for a kid's tail. Still dreaming...I just love crafting. :)

[PearlieMae]

Ah, I didn't think of kids tails, I was thinking of mid range adult tails.

[Dancing Fish]

I'm curious too-- would adults accept paying that kind of money for spandex? The parts that would be exposed to the most wear would be the more durable rubber bits. And the spandex could be easily replaced if it got worn (or in the case of foil, lost its shine). I could see them lasting longer than a season. (Basing this on my experience with kids and spandex. Adults would probably be more careful).

[Keiris]

Having already calculated the time to create my silicone/fabric hybrid, with a couple small dorsal fins and petite pectoral fins, silicone fluke and the silicone blended waistband, plus the addition of hand-painting stripes and a shimmercoat on top, it would have to be in the 1100 to 1300 price range for a realistic looking tail, DONE WELL. You can not go too large with the decorative silicone fins because the silicone coated lycra fabric will not support the weight without causing the body to sag.

I will try and post some pictures in the next couple days.

[Mermaid Kassandra]

Well the point now seems if a mid-range price is for a silicone one or a fabric one.





As for hybrids I can tell you that they can last a lot if you care of them in the correct way (like you would with a full silicone one).





I have the first Fusion Silicone Tail we made at Mer-tails and between last year and this one I used it really often (in last year's August I used it nearly each day) and it is still in extraordinary condition and it has a body made of fabric and fluke and fins made of silicone.





We also try to make it at a reasonable price as we understand that tails are expensive but we would like to help everyone to bring to life the dream tail of life 😊





Also for compete fabric tails I don't know about the other tailmakers but our last for a very long time with of course the right care.


We have an elaborate fabric tail of a koi fish that is now almost three years old and it still looks like a new tail.


We also make the fabric tail very resistant because we know that they are going to be stressed with constant use and we also use a fabric that prevents holes.





I think that both of them are a good alternative to full silicone tails it only depends on the quality of the fabric you use and how much resistant you make them.

[OrcaMatt]

I think the reason mid range tails don't exist is because to make a tail for $400 or so, the maker would have to either make the tail at cost, or they'll be paying themselves crap for working wage, especially for semi realistic tails. When I think about it, my tail, neoprene and sequins (and I didn't even buy enough sequins to cover more than the fluke) cost $175, now factor into that if I bought enough sequins to sequin the entire tail, the thread I used, maintenance on my machine, now what if I used good quality silicone instead of sequins? what costs will I have to factor into that? the time I took to perfect my craft? more work hours? do the tools I have to use require more maintenance? how much will it cost for pigments? Will I have to rent out a space to work?Yeah I think that's a big part of why the lower-end tailmakers don't stick around...they get flooded with orders then realize they're busting their humps for minimum wage, taking crap from customers, doing endless pre-sale consultation for a sale that may never come, and just get burnt out and disillusioned.


Here's a question...what is the 'mid-price' range? If a Fin Fun is around a hundred, and a pro-grade full silicone is at least $2500 and up, mid range would be $1000 to $1250, yes? I think you're right, we do need to really get on the same page about what we're talking about here, numerically. I feel like I'm lowballing 'mid-range' because I'm imagining the sort of ALEX tailmakers that probably don't really exist anymore (but are really easy to hang an argument on :P ) I'm definitely assuming realistic tails of one form or another.

I think your $1000-$1250-ish figure would neatly encompass the 'new realistic tailmaker' segment, who are making stuff 'at cost'/near cost to get their names out there, before raising their ambitions a little, and I think that's definitely a market segment somebody could build a continuing (rather than 'couple $1200 tails before ramping up to $2500 over the course of 18 months or so') on. This is probably a third tier between the 'midrange' and high-end stuff.

So I think you're right that numerically $1000-$1250 is the middle of the road, but I think in terms of marketing and positioning you'd need to at least get it below $1000 just to get around the psychological barrier of the four-figure price. I still sort of stand by my unfair generalization that it's mainly young people / parents of young people who will balk at the $1000+ price tag where they might consider something just below that line. I'm still kind of thinking $400-$750, while being willing to accept if that's simply untenable on economic or profit margin grounds, as the range where people who are looking for these tails would probably like to be. This is based on zero market research of course, just informally sort of paying attention :P

[stellar lee]

Ok- I'm going to, if you don't mind, jump in from the consumer side of it.

I'm hunting for a mid range tail right now- in my mind, mid range means between $400.00 - $900.00 for a non-silicone body. Why? Because I can buy a basic silicone tail that ranges from $600-$1500 (depending on the definition of basic and the manufacturer). However, I don't want a silicone tail, so in my mind, why should I pay pricing for a silicone tail, and only have silicone tails available to me for purchase? There are precious few neoprene tail manufacturers out there, and truthfully, I do want something that holds up better than spandex, regardless of where I am swimming.

Why do I not want silicone? I want something easier to store, easier to keep mold free, more durable around man made pools, and easier to travel with. Why do I want from some form of fabric? I want something easier to add my own touches to (after market), easier to make adjustments to (like changing out the monofin if needed), and something that is warmer in cool water. What do I not like about fabric? I want something that tends to be more durable in chlorine, something that doesn't snag on concrete, and something that doesn't look cheap or flimsy.

Will there be pros and cons to any tail? Absolutely. It is just a matter of if the cons make up for the "midrange price" and if the perceived value is met by the manufactured product. Make sense? I think it is a hard market to keep occupied because of the perceived allure of silicone.

[Mermaid Kassandra]

Yours is a very interesting point!
Also I find your opinion on the "silicone tails market"quite correct: we reduced more interest in our company right after we realized our full silicone products.

I don't know why as I find sequins tails more artistic and fashionable <3

[stellar lee]

I think silicone tails became popular when they became accessible to more people. My gut reaction is that the market will sway away from silicone tails when "everyone" has them, and a trend begins of more... individualized tails again. However, I also feel like it may take a while for silicone tail market to hit maximum saturation. You know, that persnickety economics supply/demand thing...

In the meantime, if anyone wants to go back to neoprene, let me know!

[Mermaid Kassandra]

I completely agree!
Anyway I saw there was a period when a lot of people where struggling for a neoprene/sequins tail but right after mermaid Hannah and then Kariel "converted" to silicone it seems that everyone now wants a silicone tail.
It's just my impression anyway...

[stellar lee]

yep. It is all about trendsetters and fashion.

[PearlieMae]

yep. It is all about trendsetters and fashion.

I would love to explore the materials and methods of tails other than silicone. There has to be something more substantial than Spandex but not as floaty and difficult as Neoprene, that would A: be aesthetically pleasing; B: be durable; C: have significant ease of production; D: have a decent price point for materials.

It's not ALL about trendsetters and fashion, believe it or not. If mid-range, non-silicone tails were popular enough, tailmakers would still be cranking out Alex tails and neoprin to a hungry public. Market demand is what gets filled, and a tailmaker has to weigh ROI vs market demand.

And the sheer labor-intensive nature of building a sequin tail should rightfully be THE most expensive tail you can get.

[OrcaMatt]

You know, that persnickety economics supply/demand thing...Definitely take a while. Way more demand than supply right now at the high end. Merbellas and Finfolk are booked until what, autumn 2016 at this point? For somebody looking to order a tail today they might as well not exist. The market is absolutely ready for another tailmaker to join that top tier.

[stellar lee]

I have a fabric option in mind... it is called Darlexx... the Darlexx Superskin that I've found runs $25.00 / yard... but I know that there is first generation Darlexx out there as well.

[PearlieMae]

It seems to me that there are a lot more folks interested in - and diving into - making higher end tails on their own. Maybe it goes in cycles, but from the time I joined the network until now, LOTS of people are getting crafty. Merfolks are generating their OWN mid-range tails, leaving only the economical lower priced fabric tails (smaller profit + easier to crank out/mass production-line tails) and expensive pro-grade tails (larger profit that must cover labor-intesive, expensive materials, complicated/difficult process, and customized tails) to be generated by tailmaking businesses.

[PearlieMae]

I have a fabric option in mind... it is called Darlexx... the Darlexx Superskin that I've found runs $25.00 / yard... but I know that there is first generation Darlexx out there as well.

Yeah, but you can't decorate Darlexx Superskin, except with cyanide-based specialized screenprint inks.

[stellar lee]

What about the non-superskin? The exterior may be finished the same way as the superskin, but i'm not sure...

[PearlieMae]

I think you get the same issues as with the spandex. I'd love to get swatches to test, but they have a 5 yard minimum/$25 a yard :jawdrop:

It's basically spandex laminated to a plastic film.

[Mermaid Enora]

I would love to explore the materials and methods of tails other than silicone. There has to be something more substantial than Spandex but not as floaty and difficult as Neoprene, that would A: be aesthetically pleasing; B: be durable; C: have significant ease of production; D: have a decent price point for materials.

It's not ALL about trendsetters and fashion, believe it or not. If mid-range, non-silicone tails were popular enough, tailmakers would still be cranking out Alex tails and neoprin to a hungry public. Market demand is what gets filled, and a tailmaker has to weigh ROI vs market demand.

And the sheer labor-intensive nature of building a sequin tail should rightfully be THE most expensive tail you can get.

^ yes to this about sequin tails......so much labor intensive!

[Echidna]

I don't think people flock to silicone because it's a trend so much, but rather because it is the material of choice for the average mermaid.
By average I mean mers who mostly swim in shallow water like pools or beachsides, often entertain children, do parties and photoshoots, and want the most realistic looking tail which still swims decently enough.

Mers who specialize in exhausting dives, star as aquarium attraction, and swim with ocean wildlife are a minority, and if they swim in the ocean or other deep water, they might be better off with a neoprene tail to keep warm (and have a silicone back-up for pool gigs still, as it's less floaty).

And the other minority who does watershows with frequent costume changes might prefer fabric tails, even if they're less elaborate and less durable, but for the show mers, the tail is an accessory, not the show itself.

I agree about sequin tails.
Most labour intensive thing imaginable, and just as gorgeous and realistic as a silicone tail if done right.

[stellar lee]

I just sent an e-mail to see if I could get a darlexx swatch sent to me, and let them know exactly what I am trying to do with it.

The sequined tails are stunning and have a lovely vintage feel to them. Or I suppose they could provide a flash gordon feel as well... that could be nifty.

[Mermaid Harmony]

Coradion is now making neoprene tails.

[OrcaMatt]

I would love to explore the materials and methods of tails other than silicone. There has to be something more substantial than Spandex but not as floaty and difficult as Neoprene, that would A: be aesthetically pleasing; B: be durable; C: have significant ease of production; D: have a decent price point for materials.Have to go to New York to see a client maybe next week, makes me want to sneak over to B&J for a look around. :P

[stellar lee]

oooh. Let us know if you find anything good!

[Mermaid Tory]

I think the reason mid range tails don't exist is because to make a tail for $400 or so, the maker would have to either make the tail at cost, or they'll be paying themselves crap for working wage, especially for semi realistic tails. When I think about it, my tail, neoprene and sequins (and I didn't even buy enough sequins to cover more than the fluke) cost $175, now factor into that if I bought enough sequins to sequin the entire tail, the thread I used, maintenance on my machine, now what if I used good quality silicone instead of sequins? what costs will I have to factor into that? the time I took to perfect my craft? more work hours? do the tools I have to use require more maintenance? how much will it cost for pigments? Will I have to rent out a space to work?

I made my first tail just recently and its neoprene and fully sequenced with two little extra heel fins sequenced. It also has a dorsal, side fins, and fluke fins but those are from shelving liner with a little sequin overlap. I've had people ask me if I could make them one expecting it to be a few hundred but honestly id have to start at 1k due to the time it took. Base materials cost around $400 or so. I kept track to start off with but ordered sequins in batches as I went so I lost track. Of course sequencing is done but hand one at a time so most of the cost is paying for the time to make it ( although i have seen a video of someone making a sequin tail and sewing the sequins on in rows on their machine but i could not do that with the smaller sequins and didnt want to put a bunch of extra holes through the neoprene)

anyways theres the view for a sequin tail

[Meghara July]

I've started selling fabric tails. I do use spandex, but I also am willing to customize it to any vision. If needed, I can do everything except alter a monofin, but that will change in the future. They run about 250 and up but I try to keep them affordable. I've been dipping my toes in the 'mid range price' market, especially after not finding too many shops in that range, like stated before. There are a lot of gaps in the market that are just waiting to be filled.

[MermaidRaegan]

I'm very excited to see what you come up with Pearlie, especially after seeing the magic you worked with your own tail! I'm also very excited about Tiggs and may very well order from them at some point, but I want to see how her silicone holds up over time first. When I first started mermaiding there were lots of midrange and cheap options, but the quality was often horrible, and it seems to me that we now have the opposite issue: lots of quality tails, but most aren't affordable for the average hobbyist.

[Wandering_Nightwind]

What are everybody's thought on latex tails?

[Mermaid Kassandra]

Hey guys me and Alexander where thinking about selling a model of silicone tails with a price of €300-500.



Probably they would include a limit number of color (from 1 to a maximum of 3) but we think it can be a good alternative and also a way to increase the market of mid range tails.



What do you think guys?

Would the community be interested in a product like this?

[Princess Pearl]

If the quality is there, I think you'll find people will go nuts for it.

[Mermaid Kassandra]

If the quality is there, I think you'll find people will go nuts for it.


We are thinking to strengthen the silicone with neoprene (the same used by Hannah for her tails) so that even if it's a mid range tail it will still be extremely durable.

[readthewind]

This thread is such a good an insightful read. I'm pretty new to tail-making and the mer community, so I don't have much to say on the matter. However, I do have a lot to learn! I come from the furry fandom where fursuit makers are regarded much like tail makers here (I think the tail makers here are respected more as artists and in general given more respect here though, to be honest). The relation is helping me understand things around here!

What I am curious about is the custom shaping of silicone tails to the customer's body. Since I have seen that measurements must be taken for a silicone tail by the big makers, I am assuming that silicone tails in general are not one-size-fits-all. Also it seems that a lot of clients have color customization along with size customization. Do you think the inherent customization to silicone tails adds greatly to the general cost?

[Yulia]

Also it seems that a lot of clients have color customization along with size customization. Do you think the inherent customization to silicone tails adds greatly to the general cost?
Mernation offers a cheaper one-color silicone tail because of that.

[readthewind]

Mernation offers a cheaper one-color silicone tail because of that.

That makes sense!

[Mermaid Alea]

Do you think the inherent customization to silicone tails adds greatly to the general cost?

Definitely. Not only will you pay more for having more colors but tailmakers will usually charge extra if you want a detailed design on your tail such as stripes, they might charge extra to add glitter, extra to add glow in the dark pigments, extra for scale tipping, extra for a blended waist, extra for individual scales, and of course you pay extra for extra fins such as dorsal, hip, heel, etc.

[Mermaid Kassandra]

Definitely. Not only will you pay more for having more colors but tailmakers will usually charge extra if you want a detailed design on your tail such as stripes, they might charge extra to add glitter, extra to add glow in the dark pigments, extra for scale tipping, extra for a blended waist, extra for individual scales, and of course you pay extra for extra fins such as dorsal, hip, heel, etc.


Yes this is because you need a lot of material in addition to do extra work, more pigments are expressive as when you order one you don't receive a big amount of it and special pigments like the glue in the dark are more expensive than the others.

[Moongazer]

I've been in the process of setting up a mid range tail company for a while now. It's only been something I've reasearched in my spare time but with a move to a place with a garage for me to work out of, this is now more of a reality then a thought.

I will be trying to make neoprene only tails and neoprene with latex, moving to silicone sometime in the future. I have a partner who's willing to help me with this as well and it would be nice to see the market have tails in all the price ranges again.