Making my first silicone tail!

[MermaidDalni]

Hi guys! I've just started making my first silicone tail ever and I'm so excited! I'll be posting updates to track my progress as I go along. So far I'm just doing the fluke sculpture. It's pretty much done but I'm just going to look at it in the morning one more time to make sure it's 100% how I want it. Next step mold making!

[Mermaid Kelda]

Nice! I look forward to seeing your progress. Have you decided on a colour scheme?

[MermaidDalni]

I was going to do a gold/ rust tail for a more realistic look bur now I think I'm leaning more towards an aqua silver look :)

[MermaidDalni]

Tonight's progress- I made a makeshift wooden mold box, which I lined with wax paper for easy removal. I seamed the cracks with monster clay. A lot of people suggest making your walls out of clay, but my dad's workshop is in the next room so I just grabbed a couple of pieces of scrap wood. I used ultra cal 30 for my mold material. I found that I always seemed to mix it way too thin. The extra water actually started to separate and leak out of the mold, a little gypsm too, but mostly water. I laid down a layer of burlap soaked in the ultra cal to strengthen the mold and prevent cracking. Let's see how it turns out!

[MermaidDalni]

I updated the fluke design with a wider edge on the fluke

[Mermaid Alea]

I am definitely liking the end of the fluke. I hope the mold turns out well!

[Keiris]

Looking GREAT!

[MermaidDalni]

Thanks keiris, kelda, alea! I hope the water leaking out is a good sign for the mold! I've heard using too thin plaster can be disastrous

[MermaidDalni]

Today's updates! Cleaning out the mold, p.s. don't leave the paper pattern on the back like I did because it'll make the clay had to clean for reuse! I have a couple tiny air bubbles, any tips on fixing those :)

[MermaidDalni]

Cracked my mold lifting it up >.< but it's not too bad so I think it'll be okay

[MermaidDalni]

Got my silicone today! It came a lot faster than I thought it would, I still don't even have my foam scale sheet done yet haha but I'm making a couple tests to see how the silicone turns out with the color in it

[Trident True]

Simple but detailed. I like it, keep it Up. :cheerleader:

[MermaidDalni]

Thank you! :) Today I've just finished sculpting and molding my dorsal fin. I'm going to make my tail one piece and hide the seam with that. I'm very petite (the length of my tail is only going to be 34" because I'm short! Haha) so my scale sheet won't need to be that big. I'm going to make the first half of my fluke today too- I'm so excited and nervous at the same time! I'll be using acrylic to color intrinsically I did a test before and it cured just fine. I also started on the bottom of my scale sheet using foam dots and hot glue.

[MermaidDalni]

That one part mold for the dorsal did not work at all time for take 2! Time to figure out how to make a 2 part mold

[MermaidDalni]

The first half of my fluke is complete and the second half is curing now! I'm so excited! It's an ice blue and I have a medium metallic blue and a gold paint I'll be airbrushing on once it's all complete

[AnnaAbyss]

Ooh great progress! :swoon:

[Trident True]

your not going to be able to do a 2 part mold or side mold for fins as the fin needs to be flipped the opposite side, but you can simply use the one piece cast one side then flip the piece and add detail to other side then cast again. so basically you will have 2 separate molds without having to make two separate fins.

if you choose to go this way, ensure you have a poster cardboard underneath the fin, this allows easy removal without stressing if it will tear. I have used this method and works great with MMC. Use book contact adhesive to cover the cardboard otherwise the clay may stick to the cardboard.

[MermaidDalni]

I pulled out my second half of the fluke and there were three spots on the edges where the silicone didn't cure all the way :c I'm so confused it's the same mold I used for the other half. I cleaned out that portion of the mold and the fluke and put some fresh silicone down in the mold with the fluke back on top. Hopefully the silicone will cure onto the fluke! It took half a gallon set for each side of the fluke so I really don't want to have to do it again!

[MermaidDalni]

The second half of the fluke is a success! It took two tries to get it to turn out right. On the first try I just added more silicone and hoped it would cure together correctly. After the 4 hour demold time the new silicone had cured part way but it wasn't adhered to the other silicone and the original uncured silicone underneath remained uncured. I decided to cut of the uncured portion and try again. I coated the surace with vaseline like I had the first time (I think this put a barrier between the ultracal and the silicone to prevent the cure inhibition. The only thing I can think of that would case it was me mixing the ultracal by hand while wearing latex gloves) and I poured in fresh silicone. I was having trouble with the silicone making a strong bond to itself so I did a little research and found that although the silicone cures by itself in 4 hours, it takes about *16 hours* for silicone to fully cure to itself and have a bond stronger than what they were calling a "bandaid" adhesion

[MermaidDalni]

Trident true, great advice! I was going to be lazy and just pour silicone into the bottom of my fluke mold for the dorsal haha. I'm definately going to pour it into the bottom corners for those little side fins (can't remember what they're called, oops!) Because I did that for a test patch and it looked like a great fin

[Mermaid Kate Silverfin]

It sounds like the problem was those latex gloves, you can't use latex in any part of the process or you'll have curing problems! Get nitrile gloves if you can, or just latex free ones from the supermarket :)
Good luck with the rest of your tail!

[WaterDragon]

You can get a box of inexpensive latex free gloves from amazon. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_11?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=latex+free+gloves&sprefix=latex+free+gloves%2Caps%2C242

most boxes are under $10 (some are as low as $4ish)

[mersheep]

I just purchased a bag of 10 Nitrile gloves from Anchor Electronics (http://www.anchor-electronics.com) for $7.95USD. They ship anywhere in the US. Sadly I asked no international shipments. Anchor, is a small overstock outfit, that has bee around forever. They seem to sell older electronics, called new old stock, I think that keep a lot of Silicon Valley running. More recently they have increased their tool and chemical supplies, for those of us who work with what is called surface mount electronics.

Note: Just read on the package while I typed the above. for those international the gloves are a "Product of Canada" Made by M.G Chemicals (http://www.mgchemicals.com)

[MermaidDalni]

I actually went to Walmart today and found a pack pretty cheap. Horrible company, unfortunately great prices haha

[MermaidDalni]

Does anyone know any tricks for adhering shells to silicone?

[MermaidDalni]

Super glue doesn't work I just end e d up with my fingers stuck together haha

[Merman_Shawn]

Maybe sil-poxy would work?

[Merman_Shawn]

Although nothing really sticks to silicone except silicone... Maybe you should make some silicone shells instead of trying to glue actual shells on.

[Theobromine]

Get some thick felt, cut a patch out of it and silicone it into place where you want the shell to be. The silicone will sink into the felt fibers and lock it into place. When the silicone is cured, glue the shell to the felt patch using E6000 (not superglue). That's your best bet for creating a strong bond (as silicones are notoriously difficult to bond to other materials).

[MermaidDalni]

My foam circles will be arriving today so I can finally continue work on my scale sheet!

I'll be doing a single back seam with a dorsal fin. I've done this successfully with cloth, but I'm a little worried about the silicone

[MermaidDalni]

As for the silicone and shells, lexel silicone replacer (even though it's made with silicone) works wonders for attaching silicone to anything else including smooth shells! And it's only about 6 dollars a tube, may be good for attaching monofins to silicone (?)

[MermaidDalni]

Making a scale sheet is a pain in the butt!

[Ashe]

Making progress! It is looking really nice, I love the way that you overlayed them!

[MermaidDalni]

2/3 of the way done, quitting time for tonight! Tg I'm short hahaha

[Mermaid Kate Silverfin]

Wow, that was so quick! You're making amazing progress! Just remember to fill in the tiny holes between the scales, otherwise whatever moulding material you use will get into those gaps and it makes it really hard to get the foam out!

[MermaidDalni]

How do you suggest filling them? I have acrylic spray sealer will that fill the holes sufficiently

[Mermaid Kate Silverfin]

Fill them with clay (whatever you use for your fluke will do), the acrylic sealer will be too runny to fill the holes properly. Sealing the scales is very important too, make sure you do lots of coats (I ended up using mod podge because I found I needed a lot fewer coats). Also, if you're making your mould out of resin, don't forget your mould release, otherwise it will be very very difficult to get all the foam out! Good luck!

[MermaidDalni]

Thank you! I'll Be Using Ultra Cal 30 for my mold but I'll probably still need that release agent. I've been using vaseline and it works great

[MermaidDalni]

Progress on the scale sheet! Almost done but I ran out of hot glue

[theMerFanc]

Looking awesome!!

Quick question. When you made the mold of the fluke, did you just mix one giant batch and poor it all on? Or did you brush it on in layers?


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[MermaidDalni]

I mixed a very runny batch for my first layer (about 50/50 whoops!) It seemed to capture details well but the mold was leaking water everywhere. I had to make a few batches just because I didn't want to make too much and waste it. I poured it all on while the other layers were wet because ultra cal doesn't bond that we'll to itself once it dries.

[MermaidDalni]

Scale mold was a failure, the ultracal 30 cracked and the scale sheet ended up ripping when I took it out. Im switching mold making material to fiberglass resin and it made a great pectoral fin mold!

[MermaidDalni]

Both side of the fins molded and joined

[AnnaAbyss]

Aww cute fins!

[MermaidDalni]

I almost gave up and bought a tail but I'm back at it! I bought an airbrush at 3mm to use with regular dragon skin thinned with mineral spirits and it was still wayyyy to thick. Is psycho paint any thinner than regular dragonskin 10, and will it work in a 3mm airbrush?

[MermaidDalni]

Progress pics

[MermaidDalni]

Scales

[Mermaid Wesley]

Ohh it looks awesome!


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[MermaidDalni]

Thank you! The scales are dyed intrinsically, so maybe when i figure out the airbrush sitch I can blend a little better c: I'm thinking of making my own fiberglass monofin with caulking for the foot pockets since I've been making all of my molds from fiberglass now (boooo ultracal) I'll post an update with how it all turns out!

[MermaidDalni]

I've decided to use finis zoomers on a custom fiberglass monofin:) any tipsuggestions on attaching the two together?

[Mermaid Wesley]

Custom fiberglass fin? How are you gonna swing that?


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[MermaidDalni]

I have easy access to fiberglassing materials so I'll make my own fin :) I make all of my molds out of it too, after ultracal 30 molds cracking on me a few too many times. I've found that fiberglass cloth makes a sturdy but flexible base with the resin

[Theobromine]

Making a fiberglass fin is possible, but easier said than done. There was at least one thread on the deeperblue forums about repeated attempts to build a custom fiberglass fin; the person kept having to remake the fin and refine his methods to get it to work properly. I believe he was also using vacuum injection molding. You have to be very aware of the different layers you laminate together and their thickness as well as the type of fiberglass cloth you use. I'd find the link for you but I'm on my phone right now (waiting in the movie theater for Star Wars) but you can probably find it easily if you google it. If you're up for that challenge, good for you! Just make sure you're aware that it will be a challenging and complex process that probably requires at least some basic engineering knowledge. Good luck!

[MermaidDalni]

Thank you! I'll definitely look up that forum. A lot of the tail making experience has been a learning experience so I'm up for it! I hope I can keep learning and someday be a tail maker like pearlie or raven ♡ I still need quite a few more tails under my belt to practice and learn. @theobromine your tail is gorgeous! It's pretty close to the color scheme I'm going for :)

[Theobromine]

You're welcome, and thank you! I'm definitely interested to see how you progress!

[lynsea]

LOVE your fluke shape. I'm always a sucker for the classic fluke.

[MermaidDalni]

@lynsea I love love love classic fluke shapes! I may do a complex one at a some point, but for my first tail I definitely wanted a classic one

[Hydra1337]

Your tail its looking great so far! I can't wait until it's done.

[Adalira]

Wow, i love the colors and the fins look so great!

[MermaidDalni]

Thank you everyone! Its getting there! Im seaming the tail (fingers crossed!) I will definitely not be doing a single seam again haha the curves make it difficult

[MermaidDalni]

It turned out alright, when I tried it on though the very bottom dorsal came undone, reinforcing everything and reconnecting now

[MermaidDalni]

Anyone have tips for attaching dorsal fins?

[Mermaid Wesley]

Let the silicone cure for a few days before putting it on. Think of it like nail polish. It's dry in 20 minutes but isn't REALLY dry for like 10 hours. You can still dent it the whole rest of the day. It takes a little while for the silicone to cure completely. Other than that I don't know.


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[Hydra1337]

Thank you everyone! Its getting there! Im seaming the tail (fingers crossed!) I will definitely not be doing a single seam again haha the curves make it difficult

Even in fabric sewing it's a pain in the butt. I can barely imagine it with silicone.

[Mermaid Alea]

Think of it like nail polish. It's dry in 20 minutes but isn't REALLY dry for like 10 hours. You can still dent it the whole rest of the day.

I love this comparison.

[MermaidDalni]

Working with silicone is A LOT like trying not to mess up your freshly done manicure hahaha that's a really great comparison

[MermaidDalni]

Nearly done! I just need to glue everything together :)

[MermanOliver]

Nice work! :) Looks very good. Congrats! :clap:
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[Stefani]

Wow! good work, beautiful

[MermaidDalni]

Thanks everyone! Can't wait to try her out :) I know she's not the best tail out there, but shes my first tail and I actually finished it! I've learned so much and I can't wait to get the supplies to start another practice tail. I'll post pictures when I get to test her out

[Adalira]

Beautiful work! Wow! It looks so good! Can't wait to see pictures of you and your tail in action :-)

[Luna Dreamtide]

Thanks everyone! Can't wait to try her out :) I know she's not the best tail out there, but shes my first tail and I actually finished it! I've learned so much and I can't wait to get the supplies to start another practice tail. I'll post pictures when I get to test her out
It's a lovely first tail. Even though some amazing people can do it - we certainly can't all make it perfect on our first try :D
Did you handpaint the colour?

[MermaidDalni]

It's a lovely first tail. Even though some amazing people can do it - we certainly can't all make it perfect on our first try :D
Did you handpaint the colour?

Thanks! I'm going to keep practicing at it :) I did handpaint it haha I bought an airbrush to color it but when I tried it I realized an air brush only covers a half an inch area haha what I needed was a spray gun. I like the handpainted look of the fluke, but I've ordered a spray gun and I'll repaint the body when it arrives, and use it to paint the next tail too!

[Luna Dreamtide]

Good to know about the airbrush - though I have seen people using larger airbrushes like .5mm with silicone and it working alright.

[MermaidDalni]

Good for detail, but would be a pain in the butt to do the whole tail with! Haha

[Luna Dreamtide]

What type of thing are you looking at getting instead?

[Theobromine]

I have to say, I am a huge fan of hand-painting. With enough practice, I think it can look just as good as airbrushing, without the cost (says the fish who refuses to spend that much money on an airbrush). The trick to handpainting with silicone is to thin it down enough. I've tried painting with unthinned dragonskin and it's no fun at all. You'll have to experiment a bit; smaller projects are great for that, but once you figure out what works, it's great! As much as I love power tools, I really prefer the control that I get from just using a brush.

[Luna Dreamtide]

I have to say, I am a huge fan of hand-painting. With enough practice, I think it can look just as good as airbrushing, without the cost (says the fish who refuses to spend that much money on an airbrush). The trick to handpainting with silicone is to thin it down enough. I've tried painting with unthinned dragonskin and it's no fun at all. You'll have to experiment a bit; smaller projects are great for that, but once you figure out what works, it's great! As much as I love power tools, I really prefer the control that I get from just using a brush.
So are you hand-painting Theo? I didn't realise.

[MermaidDalni]

What type of thing are you looking at getting instead?
This is the spray gun I'm getting 2.5 mm tip it has a 5-7 inch spray pattern, not such a bad price since my dad already has 2 aircompressor tanks

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001NOU92G/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1451226652&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=Spray+Gun+2.5&dpPl=1&dpID=31KHR4Q1a1L&ref=plSrch

My airbrush is just a little master 5mm it was like 20 bucks. I tried thinning regular dragonskin with the airbrush but I had to use so much solvent the test I did took weeks, I got psycho paint and novocs which worked like a dream but I realized that to paint a whole tail it wouldn't be great haha @theobromine you're a magical tail making goddess I firmly believe that no matter what you do your tail will look magnificent! :)

[MermaidDalni]

If you watch jazz's videos on painting silicone you can see her using the spray gun and not an airbrush, I always wondered why I couldn't find a air brush that looked like that haha

[Theobromine]

So are you hand-painting Theo? I didn't realise.

Yup. I guess maybe I haven't discussed that as much as I'd thought....I'm happy to answer questions about it if you're interested, maybe over in my own thread so as not to clog up Mermaid Dalni's thread here.

That spray gun is quite reasonably priced considering you already have access to compressors, Dalni. I would have had to buy everything from scratch. But also, and correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think the airbrush is better for doing fine detail work...? So you might still be needing to use that as well.

[MermaidDalni]

Yes definitely a good thing to have an airbrush too! This specific tail doesn't really have fine detail but if I was doing some it'd be really useful!

[MermaidDalni]

My tail!

[Mermaid Wesley]

Hooray!!


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[Theobromine]

Nice!!

[Hydra1337]

Awesome! How does it swim?

[MermaidDalni]

I ended up just using the zoomers instead of a monofin, so it takes a little extra effort to move the fluke but it's really pretty and flowy. It take more work to swim in than my cloth tail but I think that's partially because I didn't put a full monofin in and partially because I made my fluke pours really thick and heavy. My next tail will have all new molds