Are we unfair to tail designers and each other?

[Mermaid Lily_Pad]

I have been a part of Many online communities and personally own a forum that has over 1700 members and I have never seen so much cattyness, and pettyness as I have seen in the mercommunity. It is especially bad when it comes to tail makers and it is sort of heartbreaking.

These are people folks, they are also artists and fans as well yet we have a tendency to tear them apart on a daily basis.

I recently saw a tail made after mine that had the exact same colors in nearly the exact same design and you know what I thought? "Cool! I have a MerSister and she has seriously good taste in colors!."

I didnt think:
How dare she copy me.
How could they do that!
I should go to MerNetwork and rip them to shreds, and accused them of copying.

Why? Because, we ALL share the same passion and who the hell am I to make someone change their dream because I don't want someone else who I may Never see to have the same as me?

There are SO many people getting tails now that eventually some tail colors are going to be the same, designs are going to be the same, the stripes, spots, blends, tips, etc etc etc are going to be the same!

The designers create the shells, the customer picks the colors, the patterns, the accents, etc. What is a designer supposed to do? "I know you paid me $3,000 that you have saved for years to buy your dream tail but um...sorry your paint choices and designs are way to close to so and so's."

You would think in a community with so few tail makers, aka dream makers, we would want to encourage all of them to do their best, make their best, fulfill people's dreams whatever they may be. Instead we have created a community where the tail designers can't even go to events because people are so nasty with them. Like seriously...it's almost like we have to tear the other tail makers apart to boost the Tailmaker who's tail we have. God forbid our beloved Tailmaker reads how we didn't scream that their design was copied and decide they are not going to make another tail for us!

My point is, many people may look at us in our mermaid tails and call us childish or immature, lets not prove them right with how we treat each other.

We should support, encourage, and lift each other up instead of constantly tearing each other down.

[AniaR]

Is there actually an issue right now of people freaking out about tail colours or something? I know Eden is making all these posts about it but I haven't seen anything on here. I feel like that is an attempt to make an issue where there isn't one. I think people rarely post on here about that stuff unless it's clearly exact knock offs.

All I've seen recently on Mernetwork is Lorelei asking about her creation that was admittedly stolen intentionally. Which I don't think is unfair. That was sort of a salt in old wounds things, and it was fair of her to ask if Matty was going to continue using something he knew was taken from her.

I think we're unfair to tail makers in terms of the expectations we put on them, and how often clients will treat them poorly as I have seen that first hand...

But this is the point of mernetwork. There's lots of forums out there sure. But they aren't the main forum for an entire INDUSTRY. Everyone is all peachy keen and head in the sand about issues, until it happens to them and they have real painful experience with it.

I would totally disagree that we "tear each other down" if anything I have seen far more good from the mermaid community than bad. I do often feel that people refuse to be accountable for their actions in the community though. Instead of owning up and dealing with it, that's when the huge fights start and the he said she said. Huge things escalated when a simple "oh, my bad" would of been appropriate.

I will never not call out injustice. That's me. Some people choose not to get involved. I am not one of them. Having been the victim of in the mer community so many times. And I have directly seen how my personal actions have benefited the mer community as a whole in terms of speaking out. I was called dramatic for standing up for people who were scammed by adam martyn, fishbutts, and Jesse. Am I actually dramatic for that? Or are people just uncomfortable with conflict and want us all to be happy go lucky all the time? We have far less drama than many many communities.

[Mermaid Momo]

The thing about tails is that no one calls the same color scheme copying, they call copying, as in taking everything that is exactly on the other tail down to the tiny details copying. The reason why that's such a big deal is because of lot of people create their own tail designs from scratch, they've done who knows how many tail designs to come up with one they loved and is unique to them, only to have it ripped off? AND to have the design credited to either the tail maker or the new customer when the design was done completely by you for your own unique tail.

I know if I saw someone with the exact same tail as I have I'd be pissed to high hell. I spent the time creating my tail and designing it, with the intention that it'll be unique from the way the colors are blended to the small details I put in the fluke and the shape of the extra fins and fluke.

I also agree with everything Raina said, I'd rather us call out someone who stole a design from someone in the community then sold that design for profit than sit and let them feel like they can steal anything willy nilly like they want. That's what makes the mer community different from any other community, we band together for those in the community and aren't afraid to speak up about it.

[Mermaid Russet]

I think especially with mermaid like Hannah Fraser who invest thousands of dollars and hours, and helps others by providing information on her tails, I can understand when she asks people who attempt sequin tails not to copy her exactly, because she made and designed them; they're unique to her.

With my sequin tail, it's in the pattern of an orca; I can't ask every other mermaid to not make an orca tail, because I'm not the One and Only Killer Whale Goddess of the Seven Seas. Any tails that are inspired by the same animal should be viewed as common passions rather than intentional "identity theft". If enough mermaids make them, I'd even love to get us all together and make a video of a pod of Orca Mermaids :)

[AniaR]

I mean this is an ART community, and copying is pretty frowned upon in Art communities. Professional collaboration??? Yes. Sure. Give and take. But too many take take take. Knocking off a tail design is one thing. Getting your hands on another tail makers tail and cutting it up to try and figure out how they make it ?? yeah not so cool. Working for a tail maker for a year and making tails behind their back pretending you're their friend? not so cool.

That being said, I don't care if people copy my tail in the slightest.

[MermanDan]

If people are worried about copy cats, you can register your tail design.

[Mermaid Momo]

If people are worried about copy cats, you can register your tail design.

Raina actually has talked about this a lot. You can't register the design of a tail, you can only register the exact tail, as in the one sculpture a work of art. That doesn't mean people can't make knockoffs though.

[AniaR]

I think what it really boils down to is there is always an expectation of one group to "take the high road" while the other party or group involved continuously don't. Certain people in the community are burned and burned time and time again, sometimes even victimized. But when they finally speak out they get chastised. As if THEY are the ones causing drama, when in reality they are responding to intentional provocation.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f1/df/a7/f1dfa765f57a9414f06de27062786a01.jpg


That quote applies to these situations, but also so many more I have experienced in the community. "They are shamed for rightfully losing patience..." yeah, rings a bell. "The target is expected to remain calm and peaceful no matter what while the serial provoker feels entitled to do whatever they please"

Lorelei's case is a great example. She has been taking the high road FOR YEARS despite the fact she's had to watch Mertailor sell her design. The ONE TIME she has brought it up in years, individuals KNOWN for being serial provokers escalate it to HUGE drama levels and we get all these FB posts and crap. Then a thread like this makes it seem like it's on her to be the better person when in reality, Matty and Mertailor need to step up and once again community members will explain it away or choose not to get involved. It's sad IMO. It's why I always speak loud and proud. I am not OK with enabling stuff like that


edit: FYI most reputable tail makers do steer people away from copying designs regardless of how much they've paid. That's part of why they're seen as the top tail makers. It's an artistic respect. A professional respect

[Little_Orca]

the One and Only Killer Whale Goddess of the Seven Seas


You rang? ;)

[MermanDan]

Yes you can register a tail design. It doesn't prevent copying, but at least it is proof that you are the original design. Some people feel that imitation is flattering and I agree. We all can recognize a "Splash" tail, Ariel's tail and other famous tails. Registering may not make ones tail famous, but it gives credit to the person who came up with the idea.

[Mermaid Coralia]

I totally agree with Raina here. I see way more support here than us tearing each other down. I honestly don't think this is a problem at all. Getting inspiration from someones tail, and copying it out right are two totally different things. Tails like raina's, hers is Splash inspired, so of course there are going to be tails that look like her's, and that's fine. But when someone creates an actual original design, people don't like when you go and copy it entirely. And they shouldn't be made to feel bad for that. And yes, good tail makers will try to at least put SOME of their own vision or difference into a tail when a customer comes asking for an exact replica.

[Mermaid Lily_Pad]

I think everyone missunderstood me. Im not speaking about fluke designs. Besides the obvious basic fluke shape, I think each designer should be unique. I'm not speaking of construction, honestly there are only so many ways to put a tail together and even I know how that's done and I have never made a tail. As for sequined tails, I figure eventually there is going to be similar because let's face it...there are only so many colored sequins in the world. Patterns, in using them? That can become tricky. Like I said, only so many ways to create something.

I'm talking more along the lines of, hey that tail is the same color as mine! Or That tail has stripes like mine! Then the onslaught of copier, and yes, I have seen it here and in other places for the mercommunity, and after talking to designers, friends, and individuals, I have realized just how much we segregate designers. Especially when it comes to real life events that they feel they can't take part in. It's sad.

I believe what I am trying to say is, the designers are simply trying to help fulfill a dream. The customer is paying a heck of a lot of money and in my opinion, as long as they are not asking for an exact duplicate, as in shape And color, they should be able to get everything they wish. They shouldn't have to gnaw of their nails waiting to be cooked alive on here because they are making a koi tail and other designers have done a koi, or clownfish, or lion fish, or a turquoise tail with purple accents. (Disclaimer: they are just examples of what could happen).

There are also three sides to every story, yours, theirs, and what actually happened. To jump on the bandwagon of "they did that!!! They are awful!" Without knowing the full story is irresponsible.

This post is not an attack on any one person but a general statement of things I have read, heard, and witnessed and a plea to be more kind, and perhaps more objective before posting anything that may tear another down without knowing the full story. If you think this post is a direct attack on you, then maybe you need to ask yourself why. Maybe your subconscious is feeling guilty about something.

P.S. I think a pod of orcas would be awesome.

[Winged Mermaid]

Except every single time someone has said "Oh this person made a -insert fish/marine creature here- tail, and then this other person made a tail based off the same -insert fish/marine creature here-, so that's copying!" people on the forum have shut that line of thinking down every time. Same goes for general color schemes and things like stripes or markings. Because we all know it's absolutely ridiculous to hold people to that, and just because someone made (for example) a lionfish tail first, doesn't mean they have any kind of claim over lionfish tails.
It's only when someone directly rips of an exact design that people think it's sketchy or get upset. Like that Russian tail maker who rips of Raven's exact tail designs, down the the fluke, fins, tops, and exact color scheme (she's done it with Finfolk too for that matter) to as close to the original as she can possibly get it.

And Raina made another great point that I've brought up before- with a lot of tail makers, if a person says that send a picture of another tail that was made for someone else, and say they want that exact design (color wise or otherwise), the tail maker will say I can make you something based on your design but make it unique but I won't recreate that exact one. I know Merbella Studios does this, and several others. It's not super hard to keep a general design of a tail but make it unique for that person. It requires some creativity yes, but creativity and artistry is a key part of the job for tailmakers.

[Mermaid Lily_Pad]

As I said, exact designs = bad. I was speaking more toward the community as a whole and not just here. I probably should have elaborated a bit. Recent events combined with some posts I have seen here and there plus talking to people in real life have left me feeling like we are to quick to ostracize. Perhaps it's just me, maybe I am simply to empathic. I just hate nit picking.

[AniaR]

I'm talking more along the lines of, hey that tail is the same color as mine! Or That tail has stripes like mine! Then the onslaught of copier, and yes, I have seen it here and in other places for the mercommunity, and after talking to designers, friends, and individuals, I have realized just how much we segregate designers. Especially when it comes to real life events that they feel they can't take part in. It's sad.

Do you have any specific examples on here you can point to? Maybe I've missed it but even after being here so long I can't remember anyone ever complaining about that stuff. It's usually complaints about very specific copying. otherwise it's more observations such as "oh, this reminds me of ____"


There are also three sides to every story, yours, theirs, and what actually happened. To jump on the bandwagon of "they did that!!! They are awful!" Without knowing the full story is irresponsible.

Again, I find that actually happens very rarely. it's more the people doing the wrong, that accuse people of doing this in my observation. For instance, in the Lorelei situations she didn't jump to conclusions, she was pretty clear about what she was observing on the page and *asked a question* for which people validated was a fair question to ask. The people in the wrong were the ones who spun it around defensively into what you're describing.

If anything I find more often than not when someone does complain on mernetwork or point out an observation, members ask for proof, or suggest the person contact the people involved. People will make observations, but I find people don't "pick a side" often and if they do it's usually because things are fairly obvious. I feel like I could go through the history of the forum and pull up dozens of examples of this.


and perhaps more objective before posting anything that may tear another down without knowing the full story

Can you give an *example* specifically of a recent thread on here you feel is tearing another down??? I am trying to wrap my head around your perspective.


If you think this post is a direct attack on you, then maybe you need to ask yourself why.

I find this kind of ironic, lol. If people feel this defensive, I have to wonder why. ;)



Recent events combined with some posts I have seen here and there plus talking to people in real life have left me feeling like we are to quick to ostracize. Perhaps it's just me, maybe I am simply to empathic. I just hate nit picking.

In our community especially, I think you have to be careful with things you have not seen or dealt with directly. When someone else is feeding you second hand information, ask yourself, what could be their motives behind this and what do they have to gain? Because some people in our community exploit things all the time in order to manipulate mernetwork or the general mer public in their favour.

I used to be pretty bad at getting pulled into every drama on FB or mernetwork involving mermaids. I listened to my peers and saw the disconnect and problems that came with that. I will post my personal opinions and observations if I feel it's a hot topic, but I work hard now to only publicly address issues I am directly involved in/ have proof of. And I'm pretty clear about my reasons why and what I have to personally gain or lose from the issue at hand. (see: the recent see through sea drama. Had they not directly contacted me in an attempt to curb how things appeared to mernetwork, I would of only posted my observations. But because they sent me a big message with their side of their story, I can at least confirm what they've said and point out what I see that everyone else can see publicly as well)

I will give another experience I had that was quite a learning experience for me.

There's a mer in the community I don't get along with. I don't hate them, but I avoid them. They admitted to lying to me a few times and unless someone has some really good reason, I am just not cool with lying. So, you know, no big deal. I blocked them and moved on. Well, I started suddenly having issues with this person again out of the blue and couldn't understand why. Then I had another person sending me "screen shots" of this person supposedly slandering me. At first i was enraged. I felt like I was trying to be the bigger person so why were they pulling this on me? I just kept trying to figure out their motives and it made no sense. Then I took a step back and thought to myself, wait a minute... the person who brought all this to me under the guise of being a friend... what could their motives be? Did they have something to gain from getting involved? When I really looked at it I got a sick feeling because puzzle pieces started to fit together and I realized, wait. This person has a LOT to gain from pinning this other mermaid and I against each other. They also seem to really enjoy any kind of drama in the community. And now that I look at it.. the screen shots don't seem real.

Sure enough about a month later everything came crashing down and we found out the person who was being the "go between" was actually super manipulative, lying to many, faking screen shots, and trying to benefit from pinning people against each other.

It was a sucky situation for me, but it really taught me a lesson about stepping back and evaluating why a person is doing something. Anyone who wants to cause problems or exploit someone is *always* going to try and act like they're the noble one. But often it's to deflect away from their own behaviour. So if you have people coming to you with so and so says this does this. I always ask for actual proof (something in my example of See through Sea, they claimed to have but would never provide it when I asked and continuously skirted the issue, while the people they were causing problems for had mountains of proof for their side)



You can interpret whatever you like about me writing so much about this. I tend to write a lot in general on mernetwork. but for this particular issue I am just getting tired of us all pretending like it's a case of people being jerks and bullies, and others being victims, when in reality it's a huge amount of manipulation going on. My resolution for turning 30 was to start calling these things out, and honestly since I've started doing it I have grown a lot closer with great members of the community. people who have been made small by these types for too long. These types that hide behind having the best interest at heart, but really the ones causing the strife. the ones with the crocodile tears. They TARGET you because of your empathy. I also don't really mind if you agree with me or not or even see my point, I write it because I *know* I am speaking for people who feel like they can't speak for themselves. And in writing what I am, they feel validated.

[AniaR]

This kinda got me thinking about the empaths in the mer community so I wanted to post something related but still slightly off topic from the OP:

Something anyone who identifies as an empath (as I do myself, I feel strong empathy which can sometimes get me in trouble!) is that there have been several recent studies published on how sociopaths, emotional manipulators, and narcissists will intentionally seek out empaths because they are so easy to manipulate. As empaths we see the best in everyone and will make excuses for poor behaviour "oh they're having a bad day" "oh they feel wronged, I would too." we often believe lies about victimhood very easy because we put ourselves in their shoes and would hate to feel what we *believe* they are feeling.

After this many years in the mer world and meeting so many people, I believe our community attracts many many many empaths. People/mers who want to help others, care about kids, care about the environment and feel things very deeply. it's easy to see! but we also attracts the people are are narcissistic or manipulators because our community even without meaning to, enables these types (in very much the same way that the acting, or music communities do as well)

Here's a few links on the topic:

http://www.elephantjournal.com/2015/06/the-toxic-attraction-between-an-empath-a-narcissist/

http://zen-ful.net/2013/12/18/the-dance-sociopath-and-the-empath/

http://www.sott.net/article/268449-Empathic-people-are-natural-targets-for-sociopaths-protect-yourself

I personally feel, that many of the not so great people in the community, target empaths and either make victims of them, or try to exploit them against others in the community. I think this is why certain trouble makers will constantly come to me because they see I have a voice in the community and know I will be reasonable even if they're someone I can't stand, if they come to me with something fair. The result is that people will try to use me to manipulate how they are seen on mernetwork, rather than speak on their own behalf. When I don't allow it or agree to help them and encourage them to speak on their own, they lose their mind. One person got so mad I wouldn't clean up their mess here on mernetwork (that I wasn't involved in in the slightest) they actually went to my partner and told him to "control his woman".

I feel a LOT of the drama if not MOST of it, comes from these same instigators over and over. And they reach out to people by phone or in person (so you have no record of what was said, but also to appeal to personal connection for empaths) and are never accountable. They just spin stories of the mermaid stories. Meanwhile any decent person who HAS been in drama will tell you things like "yeah I handled that in a poor way, I should of done this better" or admit when they are wrong.

It all just kind of comes back down to, you can't just trust the usual "well this person is nice to me so i will believe them, or I will stay neutral" line of thinking. You really gotta wonder, what are someone motives in trying to rally you up against anyone else in the community, or the forum as a whole???

[Coradion]

As I said, exact designs = bad. I was speaking more toward the community as a whole and not just here. I probably should have elaborated a bit. Recent events combined with some posts I have seen here and there plus talking to people in real life have left me feeling like we are to quick to ostracize. Perhaps it's just me, maybe I am simply to empathic. I just hate nit picking.

I completely agree with you. I am on a lot of forum communities and this is by far the most drama filled one. Some individuals are definitely quick to publicly attack and campaign against individuals they don't like and for some of the most bizarre and trivial reasons. I have stopped posting progress pictures and any of my new tail work because of the often negative a lot of projects seem to receive. You're not alone in feeling this way.

[SeaGlass Siren]

While i agree that we do get a lot of drama, i don't agree with the reason why we have so much drama.
For example, if we clearly see someone slandering the mer community publicly on facebook, or if they steal photos and claim them as their own, or if they take said photos and use them to show they can make those exact tails, or if they're spreading lies, we SHOULD be quick to jump on it and tell them why it's unacceptable. Most of the time they just don't accept it and are quick to lash back and cry "BULLIES! YOU GUYS JUST FEED OFF DRAMA".. thats when it starts.
I'm not gonna name names, but y'all know who you are.


With that said, i'm sorry you feel that you can't post new pictures of your work. i personally love them.

[AniaR]

I have stopped posting progress pictures and any of my new tail work because of the often negative a lot of projects seem to receive.

I find that curious because look at the threads on here for things you've made:

http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?10068-Silicone-Seashells!

and

http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?1936-Custom-Monofin-and-Performance-Tail

I don't see any negative comments. Not a single one. Not even one that could be considered back handed.

Just a lot of "so beautiful" "great colors" questions about your process... "I am dying over the design" "I love your scale patterns" "dude you are truly talented" "one of the coolest things I've ever seen"



I'd love some examples where mernetwork members are being negative toward's other members creations. Again, these sorts of claims are best backed up with showing posts and threads. (I think criticism of tail makers who sell commercially is a bit different because people want to know exactly what they're buying, and critiquing a product is a cultural norm)

[Dancing Fish]

I know at least one example where a member (not even a professional tailmaker, but a relative newcomer) posted her tail design and was told it was too close to someone else's and they should consider changing it. (I'm at work and I don't have time to dig up the thread). While kindly meant, I'm sure, that kind of thing really puts a damper on creativity! I'd love to make the kind of silicone tops that people want, but every time I think "ooh, maybe I could add gills" I immediately think "Oh but someone did that already so I'll be accused of copying her...so forget it." I'm not entirely certain if that's what the OP was referring to, but I definitely feel this way and documented the source of every darned thing on my tail, including the fish picture I used for inspiration, because there IS a definite hyper-protectiveness toward artists here.

Serious question: how much does one have to change an established technique/image/inspiration/color scheme before it's *not* copying any longer?

[Coradion]

While i agree that we do get a lot of drama, i don't agree with the reason why we have so much drama.
For example, if we clearly see someone slandering the mer community publicly on facebook, or if they steal photos and claim them as their own, or if they take said photos and use them to show they can make those exact tails, or if they're spreading lies, we SHOULD be quick to jump on it and tell them why it's unacceptable. Most of the time they just don't accept it and are quick to lash back and cry "BULLIES! YOU GUYS JUST FEED OFF DRAMA".. thats when it starts.
I'm not gonna name names, but y'all know who you are.


With that said, i'm sorry you feel that you can't post new pictures of your work. i personally love them.

I'm glad you like my work :) I just don't want anything to be posted before it's a finished piece because my designs are inspired by some of my favorite professional pieces. I know my end product will look vastly different than what I'm drawing from but I don't want unfinished work to be compared to the inspiration because at this point the framework is a mimicry of pre-existing pieces.

My overall impression of this thread is that we should identify ways we criticize tail makers and discuss what different types of critique look like.

If tail makers tend to stay off the forum that they built their businesses on why is that? Why are we not the number one place to go for merfolk inspiration for both professional tailmakers, budding ones, and hobbyists?

[AniaR]

Serious question: how much does one have to change an established technique/image/inspiration/color scheme before it's *not* copying any longer?

I think that's a good question because the average users discretion will vary.

I have asked the tail makers I talk to about this specifically, for the 3 I've spoken to (2 of whom are well established, 1 who is upcoming) it's not so much the copying the same techniques/ideas, but often the insistence on new makers that they have totally created it/come up with the idea on their own. Most don't mind if you use their new innovative thing if you say "inspired by _____" which is actually really common in other creative industries in the world. So for instance, finfolk were the first to do the scale tipping commercially. While other tail makers may try it and experiment with it, it's kind of lame of any of them to try to claim they invented it. That's the stuff that seems to get under people's skin. Similarly Mertailor claiming to have invented the detachable fin, when we all know Mahina had the first tails to do that for years before he tried it. Yeah, he made his different, but why the need to claim innovation so religiously when you know you were heavily influenced by someone else? the lack of professional respect is what causes animosity.

I see lots of people giving shoutouts to pearlie mae for instance. She really went above and beyond to create a unique individual scale technique and even shared some of that info with people. So when people try to make their own, they say, inspired by pearlie mae. Or you see there's been other threads on here "so and so's technique for fabric tails!"

It just comes down to artistic and professional integrity and give and take. It's the appropriate thing to do. In music if you sample someone else's song, you credit them even though you've now made it your own and very different from the original. Artists who try to do it without crediting, even claiming they came up with the original- ALWAYS come under fire.


I know at least one example where a member (not even a professional tailmaker, but a relative newcomer) posted her tail design and was told it was too close to someone else's and they should consider changing it. (I'm at work and I don't have time to dig up the thread). While kindly meant, I'm sure, that kind of thing really puts a damper on creativity!

I think there's a big difference between professionally and respectfully letting someone know their design is bordering very close on anothers, and outright being 'negative' and rude. I don't think the answer is for anyone to never bring these things up. Again, all comes down to professional respect as an artist. As my example has been used before, I could care less when people copy my design. I have tried to make SPLASH unique to me, and I still get devoted fans who PM me "so and so copied your tail!" to which I let them know I don't mind.

Now just as much as you all keep defending the person who has put so much money, time, and dreaming into their tail only to be told their design is too similar to someone else, please consider that the other person also put time, thought, money, and dreaming into their unique tail. It is just as undermining. It swings *both ways*

There were always be the people on both ends who take it to extremes. But I think if the community as a whole looked to other artistic communities for inspiration, people wouldn't feel so defensive and guarded, but rather have a freer exchange of these things. It all just comes down to respect.

[AniaR]

If tail makers tend to stay off the forum that they built their businesses on why is that?

several tail makers were banned for harassing, bullying, and trying to hack the site... and many other tail makers will simply tell you outright (such as Finfolk and Merbellas) that they don't use the forum because they are too busy and find it overwhelming to keep up. I think it's in poor taste to suggest the 'criticism' is why they don't come on here. Especially when you can specifically ask them why they don't come on here. it's kinda like asking why don't celebrities visit the forums dedicated to them?

[Dancing Fish]

Well, I couldn't find the other thread after a cursory search, but I submit this thread instead: http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?12877

Many fish have scales in a particular shape. Many fish have tipped scales. I tipped my scales. Other silicone tail makers have tipped their scales. But Mermaid Shimmer is wary of being accused of copying Finfolk by this community (even though she's working in an entirely different medium!). Nobody wants to be accused of copying and I'm simply making the point that an atmosphere of hypervigilance may be also dampening creativity here.

I'm not even making the point all that strongly. :) And it never hurts to ask. Nobody even seems to have an issue when it comes to personal tails. But for up-and-coming tailmakers who WANT to sell their tails...how much does someone have to change an existing technique before it's no longer copying or infringing? If (hypothetically) I wanted to sell individual scale tails too, how much do I have to change my technique so I'm not copying Pearlie?

I see the other point you're making, though. If I made such tails, I would NEVER claim to have invented the method myself. That's just rude. :)

[Coradion]

I know at least one example where a member (not even a professional tailmaker, but a relative newcomer) posted her tail design and was told it was too close to someone else's and they should consider changing it. (I'm at work and I don't have time to dig up the thread). While kindly meant, I'm sure, that kind of thing really puts a damper on creativity! I'd love to make the kind of silicone tops that people want, but every time I think "ooh, maybe I could add gills" I immediately think "Oh but someone did that already so I'll be accused of copying her...so forget it." I'm not entirely certain if that's what the OP was referring to, but I definitely feel this way and documented the source of every darned thing on my tail, including the fish picture I used for inspiration, because there IS a definite hyper-protectiveness toward artists here.

Serious question: how much does one have to change an established technique/image/inspiration/color scheme before it's *not* copying any longer?

I have wondered this a lot myself. Some people seem to feel even a matching color scheme is copying. My personal feeling is that as long as you didn't take the original design and match every product and every technique you're fine. Scale sizes differ, materials and process change, and even the same tail worn by different people yields different overall impacts with how your body type affects the lines of the silhouette and tail to skin tones complement each other. I think if you have a convergent idea and you came up with it on your own it's totally fine even if the pieces look the same because it's not the same. I also feel if someone makes their own tail based off of a tail someone else purchased it's okay.

I know some people may disagree with that sentiment but not all of us can afford a $2k+ tail, but the products to make a tail don't cost that. If you base your idea on a tail you love because that's the only way you can have something similar and you make your dream I think it's totally fine cause it will not look exactly the same when you make it. Making my tails taught me a ton and I think it's really unfair to tell people they shouldn't try and create their dream design because it looks like someone else's. If we have the same dream we should support each other.

[SeaGlass Siren]

I'm glad you like my work :) I just don't want anything to be posted before it's a finished piece because my designs are inspired by some of my favorite professional pieces. I know my end product will look vastly different than what I'm drawing from but I don't want unfinished work to be compared to the inspiration because at this point the framework is a mimicry of pre-existing pieces.

My overall impression of this thread is that we should identify ways we criticize tail makers and discuss what different types of critique look like.

If tail makers tend to stay off the forum that they built their businesses on why is that? Why are we not the number one place to go for merfolk inspiration for both professional tailmakers, budding ones, and hobbyists?
because facebook is a one-stop-shop for everything and everyone uses it :P an average person wouldnt actively seek out a merforum. they'd see the images on facebook and go "ooooh! -clicks tailmaker page-" and i think when a tailmaker sells they want to expand their "customer pool" a bit. (but this is just my speculation.)


Also like raina said (i recalled you said you can't see her posts yeah?), some tailmakers were banned for harassing, bullying, and trying to hack the site. i think you missed that ddos incident, happened just a few days ago.

[AniaR]

Many fish have scales in a particular shape. Many fish have tipped scales. I tipped my scales. Other silicone tail makers have tipped their scales. But Mermaid Shimmer is wary of being accused of copying Finfolk by this community (even though she's working in an entirely different medium!). Nobody wants to be accused of copying and I'm simply making the point that an atmosphere of hypervigilance may be also dampening creativity here.

See though for me, Shimmer did the appropriate thing and asked her peers their opinions to get a grasp on how people might respond to it. I see that more as her trying to be respectful while finding a compromise, rather than her being hypvervigilant. (plus, she's working with a totally different medium) And I don't see her thread and view it as the community being negative, rather everyone making an effort to respect the trail blazer while still empowering a new artist. ... But like I said, specifically the issue was that people were claiming to have invented the technique (on silicone tails). And we agree on that being lame.


I'm not even making the point all that strongly

I getchya. Me either honestly. I talk about all this but for me personally I am not too worried about copying. it's more to me I feel some people simple use this argument (on both ends) to rile the community up. I mean there are famous brands of clothes, and there are knock offs. lol you get what you pay for really.

[SeaGlass Siren]

I HOPE EVERYONE HERE KNOWS WE'RE ALL AGREEING TO THE SAME THING. Compromise. Ask questions. Inspiration and crediting is ok. Straight up copying and lying not ok.

Kumbaya mofos, kumbaya :P

[Coradion]

because facebook is a one-stop-shop for everything and everyone uses it :P an average person wouldnt actively seek out a merforum. they'd see the images on facebook and go "ooooh! -clicks tailmaker page-" and i think when a tailmaker sells they want to expand their "customer pool" a bit. (but this is just my speculation.)


Also like raina said (i recalled you said you can't see her posts yeah?), some tailmakers were banned for harassing, bullying, and trying to hack the site. i think you missed that ddos incident, happened just a few days ago.

Finfolk and Raven don't post though which makes me sad, I'd love to hear them just talk about artsy things and where they start and how it develops.

And yes, I still have her on my ignore list. I do appreciate you sharing pertinent points though :)

It's unfortunate they felt so negatively towards the site that they'd expend the effort to do that. That energy would be so better spent on making beautiful things

[Coradion]

I HOPE EVERYONE HERE KNOWS WE'RE ALL AGREEING TO THE SAME THING. Compromise. Ask questions. Inspiration and crediting is ok. Straight up copying and lying not ok.

Kumbaya mofos, kumbaya :P

I love you.

[SeaGlass Siren]

I love you.
https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/GjohsBxc5evvwhDpKGsZnw--/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2g9MzgzO3E9OTU7dz01MDA-/http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkp2iaDi091qfoed6o1_500.jpg

[Mermaid Coralia]

Finfolk and Raven don't post though which makes me sad, I'd love to hear them just talk about artsy things and where they start and how it develops.

And yes, I still have her on my ignore list. I do appreciate you sharing pertinent points though :)

It's unfortunate they felt so negatively towards the site that they'd expend the effort to do that. That energy would be so better spent on making beautiful things
I wish they would post more often too, but with them being so so busy making gorgeous tails, I know they struggle to find time for themselves even. So I think it's a bit unrealistic for them to post here regularly. But we can dream, right? Haha

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

[AniaR]

As I already said,

Finfolk and Raven (having already spoken to them and asking them) simply stay off the forum because they don't have time and find it overwhelming. Both used to use the forum before their company's got big. it has nothing to do with anything else, really.

And for the record, he can see my posts if he wants to. Put someone on your ignore list and see how it works. ;)

[SeaGlass Siren]

i did actually back in 2013 when i blocked echidna (i have unblocked since we've made up) :P there's a little option to the left to see if you want to read it or not. i dont think he's clicking on it lol

[Coradion]

i did actually back in 2013 when i blocked echidna (i have unblocked since we've made up) :P there's a little option to the left to see if you want to read it or not. i dont think he's clicking on it lol

:p I don't click the "view post" button for a reason. Seems counter intuitive.

[MermanDan]

As a hairdresser, I am influenced by my contemporaries. I had been on a national color team and we had to present new ideas all the time (publish or parish). It was common for an artist to present an idea and suddenly all of us would have a variation on that theme. Creativity is always going to be influenced by surroundings. Having said that, we all gave credit to the person who came up with the original idea and talked about why we would change something. It could be because somebody is really into plum reds as opposed to copper reds.
What I am trying to say is that giving credit to the artist that inspired what you do is professional courtesy. I watched a stylist do a highlight technique once that she said that she invented, when it was done 10 years before by someone else and she learned from one of his students. Taking credit for something that you didn't do must be one of the most hollowest forms of self gratification. Giving credit where credit is due, cultivates respect from your peers.
I love to talk about the process of how I created something. My latest projects were to make "Splash" necklaces, but to create something around the color scheme and personality of the individual mermaid/merman. I even created a more masculine"Splash" piece. I have no problems being very open about where I got my idea from. I have also seen "Splash" necklaces that are more authentic in their appearance and the artist who makes them is very up front about what they are.
If you are going to make a tail that closely resembles another persons design, for goodness sakes have the moral fiber to acknowledge the origins.

[MermanDan]

By the Way, I heard rumors that Raina owns Mernetwork. I thought she just invented the world wide web. And kittens.

[PearlieMae]

By the Way, I heard rumors that Raina owns Mernetwork. I thought she just invented the world wide web. And kittens.

http://replygif.net/i/241.gif

[Mermaid Russet]

I just actually died of laughter :lol:
You rang? ;)

[SeaGlass Siren]

LOL!

[Coradion]

http://replygif.net/i/241.gif

I love you too :D when are you coming to Hawaii?

[AniaR]

As a hairdresser, I am influenced by my contemporaries. I had been on a national color team and we had to present new ideas all the time (publish or parish). It was common for an artist to present an idea and suddenly all of us would have a variation on that theme. Creativity is always going to be influenced by surroundings. Having said that, we all gave credit to the person who came up with the original idea and talked about why we would change something. It could be because somebody is really into plum reds as opposed to copper reds.
What I am trying to say is that giving credit to the artist that inspired what you do is professional courtesy. I watched a stylist do a highlight technique once that she said that she invented, when it was done 10 years before by someone else and she learned from one of his students. Taking credit for something that you didn't do must be one of the most hollowest forms of self gratification. Giving credit where credit is due, cultivates respect from your peers.
I love to talk about the process of how I created something. My latest projects were to make "Splash" necklaces, but to create something around the color scheme and personality of the individual mermaid/merman. I even created a more masculine"Splash" piece. I have no problems being very open about where I got my idea from. I have also seen "Splash" necklaces that are more authentic in their appearance and the artist who makes them is very up front about what they are.
If you are going to make a tail that closely resembles another persons design, for goodness sakes have the moral fiber to acknowledge the origins.
Well said.

And yes my owning mernetwork was news to me!!!! Lol bout to be some changes round here!! Lol

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[Starfrit]

HAIL, RAINA, SECRET QUEEN OF MERNETWORK

[SeaGlass Siren]

LOL

[Coradion]

HAIL, RAINA, SECRET QUEEN OF MERNETWORK

Game of thrones mermaid edition incoming.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Sweet mother of seadragons XD id pay to see mer game of thrones

[AniaR]

https://media.giphy.com/media/13zZ0FyrgNWwLu/giphy.gif

^How I'd spend my nights on mernetwork.



When people ask me for info that's already on the forum:

https://45.media.tumblr.com/0b3d2a2e5e64eae7720dc3d30cd4140e/tumblr_n034dptqiH1se9fcoo1_500.gif

The look on people's faces who REALLY thought I owned mernetwork:

https://media.giphy.com/media/wmsjvA5UH8Xqo/giphy.gif

more like SWING THE BAN HAMMER

http://mtv.mtvnimages.com/uri/mgid:file:http:shared:mtv.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/eddard-stark-1430138247.gif

[SeaGlass Siren]

Coradion if you haven't seen Raina's recent post, view it. It's internet gold.

[Coradion]

Coradion if you haven't seen Raina's recent post, view it. It's internet gold.

I'll take your word for it. I think my emblem would be my favorite seahorse.

Back to tail makers what does community support look like? Should we have a tail design guide like different color palette selection tools, etc. Like what are ways we can increase creativity and inspire uniquely beautiful art?

[SeaGlass Siren]

I think I recall there being a contest to see who's tail was the most creative..

what about a sort of "mer project runway" ? There would be different challenges like sea dragon inspired tail, or raving mer tail, or 1930's mer tail style or random things like "design a tail using geometric shapes" or even "design a tail that uses everyday unconventional objects".
"design a tail using only polkadots" "design a tail based on your cultural/ ethnic background"

[SeaGlass Siren]

There would have to be a disclaimer though "these tails cannot be reproduced, and the designs are owned by their respective designers"

[Coradion]

I love this idea! I'd actually be fine with people manking designs I came up with since I can't create every idea. What about if we switched it where every design entered is considered free to use and if you submit it know that it might be interpreted differently if it is created.

[SeaGlass Siren]

I'm down with that. Any design entered can be recreated as long as the individual credits the original designer.

almost like Guess by Marciano, except it'll probably be like "Seaglass by so and so". It'll be so hip :P

[PearlieMae]

I love the good intentions. It warms my fishy heart to see everyone yearn for this utopian existence.

But there will always be corruption, someone will always spoil the fun, break the rules, take advantage. A talented tailmaker will refine a process, make it their signature style, bleed, sweat, and cry, and work their tail to the bone, and everyone will know it...then someone else will come along and take advantage. They'll copy your style, or your dream tail exactly. They'll sell copies, bad ones, cheap ones. They'll send out press releases and do interviews that should be yours. They'll buy a tail from you and take it apart and duplicate all your hard work and research and development. They'll order from you then cancel and then go into direct competition with you, undercutting your price, bad mouth you in public. They'll not use an ounce of creativity and steal the design you worked so hard on, the design that you brought into being like a child, and they will claim credit for your dreams.

There's nothing you can do about it.

Lawyers will cost you, and in the end, you'll get nothing but debt.

Then, if you aren't completely disheartened, if you're an artisnal tailmaker, you'll keep pushing forward, keep trying to innovate, keep trying to best your last tail. You'll cut your chest open so you can pour your heart into everything you do. Or, if sales are your thing, you'll find ways to crank out the most product for the best return and least cost.

If you're not a tailmaker and your tail has been ripped off, you'll feel saddened. Angry. Betrayed. You'll swim and forget for a while, but at some point you'll look at your dream tail and know that some unscrupulous jerk has made and sold one just like it and someone else is swimming dressed in your dream. YOUR vision.

And there's not a fucking thing you can do about it.

Is it any wonder that tail artists don't want to be involved in a forum and watch as someone else takes advantage? Or someone who's done their own homework and experimenting and research don't want to post their work until it's finished? Is this a surprise to anyone?

Some of us want to make our livelihood making art tails. Some of us want to make our own tail and be proud of our handiwork. Some want to hire someone who can make their dream a reality...

And some will come along and take advantage.

Every. Bloody. Time.

[AniaR]

http://vomzi.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/cool-preach-gif-566.gif

[AniaR]

So to answer the question, are we unfair to tail makers? Yes! But is it because we disapprove of copying? no. it's because we empower the ones who will always steal IMO

[MermanDan]

I don't think that Thom Shouse loses any sleep when someone makes a "Splash" tail because everyone knows that he was the one that created it. I don't think anybody is getting served because they have a tail and red hair like Ariel. There are some wonderful copys of famous tails and everyone knows who made them first. I started a registry on the Mernetwork specifically so people could document their original work. Sure, someone could copy it, and if they have moral scruples should give credit to the original design. Even if they don't there is documentation of the original design.
If you put your designs out on the web, they really are fair game. Look at all,the knock offs of designer purses, watches and clothes that you can get in New York. It isn't right, bit people do it.
I personally don't care if anyone tries to replicate my tail as people who know me would recognize it. I do know that the next tail I have made will have been influenced by other merfolk and designs I see.

[Coradion]

I don't think that Thom Shouse loses any sleep when someone makes a "Splash" tail because everyone knows that he was the one that created it. I don't think anybody is getting served because they have a tail and red hair like Ariel. There are some wonderful copys of famous tails and everyone knows who made them first. I started a registry on the Mernetwork specifically so people could document their original work. Sure, someone could copy it, and if they have moral scruples should give credit to the original design. Even if they don't there is documentation of the original design.
If you put your designs out on the web, they really are fair game. Look at all,the knock offs of designer purses, watches and clothes that you can get in New York. It isn't right, bit people do it.
I personally don't care if anyone tries to replicate my tail as people who know me would recognize it. I do know that the next tail I have made will have been influenced by other merfolk and designs I see.

Seriously, there definitely seems to be an over sensitivity to "copying" and I do thank that translates to harsher reactions against tail makers. I think people also need to realize the big difference between "I have an idea or design" vs. "I made a finished piece". I think this distinction is huge cause you can come up with designs all day but until it is a finished product it's just an insubstantial idea. I have yet to see people on Mernetwork use their original designs with a mathematical design or modeling program that includes measurements. What I've seen on MN is a lot more like fashion sketches than patterns and prints. If someone stole your files or portfolio templates with your exact dimensions and patterns, then yeah I'd be pissed. I do image modeling for organisms at work and that shit is tedious and hard and if you've actually taken things to that stage chances are you're actually making something real.

[Mermaid Coralia]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160317/36c5ff9c9e879ec63f2a2e37e199f9a5.jpg

Jeez pearlie. I know it sucks I just thought these meme was appropriate

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

[SeaGlass Siren]

I'd let you recreate my tail designs pearlie :T <3

[Aziara]

I have seen a few times (particularly on the tailmaker threads), that someone will say a color scheme is too similar to another person's tail, it must be a copy! Wasn't there also some drama when Finfolk came up with the Calypso fluke, because Raven had just named a fluke Calypso? And I recall that it was also said that their 'leafy' looking fluke was a knockoff of the merbella's She-creature fluke.

Here's where I am on this... Keep in mind that many of us are 'copying' nature, mermaids from fiction, and sailors tales from long ago. There are only so many shapes and colors out there, some tails are going to look similar. Maybe I'm just not possessive of my designs, but if someone were to come up with something exactly like mine, I wouldn't be upset. They're going to be spending the $100s (perhaps $1000s) to make that design a reality. They must love it as much as I do. And I get a tailsister that I'll probably never meet. :)

I really don't understand the drama about the crappy looking knockoffs of merbellas and finfolk that Russian lady made. If someone is dumb enough to buy a cheap-looking knockoff rather than the real deal, that's their problem. Everything good is going to have knockoffs made. And they are called that for a reason; they are of lesser quality.

Now, if someone is good enough to create an exact copy (precise shape, color, and every little detail down to the microscopic level) with regards to quality, WHY THE HECK ARE YOU NOT COMING UP WITH YOUR OWN DESIGN?? Obviously they could really make something of themselves, if they came up with their own designs. Maybe even become a major tailmaker. And they would have the respect of the community to boot.

I do find that this community can be a bit harsh if you are on the opposite side of popular opinion. I've had to take breaks from the site because of this. I just didn't want to explode, so I stopped coming around for a while to cool down.

[Sherielle]

Tattoo artists have been fighting this battle for years. You will always have a person bringing in a picture of another artists work and want the same.

[SeaGlass Siren]

:P as a general rule I don't buy knock offs. It's an insult to the original creators. Example: knock off Chanel, knock off Anglic pretty... If people were ballsy enough to stand up to the knock off creator there wouldn't be knock offs in the first place. Someone's heart and soul went into that piece and to mimic it and sell it for cheaper (undercutting other tail makers) is just really disrespectful. (Which is kinda why I like MN for calling people out on it)

and the bs thing with the Russian copier is she IS good at her craft so, like you said, why isn't she designing her own tails?

i respect your opinion az.

[SeaGlass Siren]

With that said, I don't mind having a tail sister just so long as they gave me a heads up. "Oh my god I love your tail I really hope you don't mind if I make a copy of it".

[AniaR]

I have seen a few times (particularly on the tailmaker threads), that someone will say a color scheme is too similar to another person's tail, it must be a copy! Wasn't there also some drama when Finfolk came up with the Calypso fluke, because Raven had just named a fluke Calypso? And I recall that it was also said that their 'leafy' looking fluke was a knockoff of the merbella's She-creature fluke.

I feel like every one of those instances, it was OBSERVATIONS people made, and then they were addressed. For instance, the Calypso fluke was more a "Raven was using this name too, but hadn't published it" and everyone was like "cool, two flukes named calypso". (In fact i can tell you from personal discussion, Raven didn't want finfolk to think she was copying them in any way because she respects them as artists)

Or a "hey finfolk did a mantis shrimp colour scheme too!" and everyone talks about how they're different and the same.

I still say rarely do we actually have drama or negativity. PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO COMPARE SIMILAR PRODUCTS FROM SIMILAR COMPANIES. it's not a NEW idea and not unique to the mer world. it's normal.


I do find that this community can be a bit harsh if you are on the opposite side of popular opinion.

I see your point but after 8 years here I gotta say, I think this particular issue is not as nit picky and crazy as some people here would say it is. Many people take a single snapshot of the community and decide it applies to the whole thing when in reality it's a rare occurrence. it is usually the people in the wrong who would have you believe it's the whole community with a "popular opinion'.

-----

I just don't get how so many people can not see what's happening here beyond the fact many people just haven't been around long enough to see the evolution, or arent active enough and only see things when they come to a head. Like we keep saying what tail makers must think, when the tail makers are literally here (thanks pearlie mae) telling you no, this is what we think! Are we just gonna allow these mental gymnastics to defend what is quite literally, theft and undermining of other artists?


Do people really not grasp the concept of respect for fellow artists?? Do we have to keep defending it with "waah people are nit picky?" or can we put on our big girl pants and accept the fact that a lot of this is incredibly hurtful to tail makers- the very people we trust to make our dreams come true?

I mean people can push the agenda all they want. At some point these tail makers are going to say "F" it to the BS and move on, and then we have one less.

I also feel that way too often people SIMPLY TALK ABOUT SOMETHING and others jump to conclusions and get defensive.

[Aziara]

I see your point but after 8 years here I gotta say, I think this particular issue is not as nit picky and crazy as some people here would say it is. Many people take a single snapshot of the community and decide it applies to the whole thing when in reality it's a rare occurrence. it is usually the people in the wrong who would have you believe it's the whole community with a "popular opinion'.



Wow.... I'm a little speechless to be honest. So you're saying that if someone expresses a divergent opinion, and then everyone else proceeds to jump down their throat about it, it's their own fault for being wrong?

Way to blame the victim. Bravo.

I think it's time I get out of here again before I say things I regret.

[AniaR]

I'm a little speechless to be honest. So you're saying that if someone expresses a divergent opinion, and then everyone else proceeds to jump down their throat about it, it's their own fault for being wrong?

Lol wow that's totally what I said? Not even close to it. Not even close. That's like a major twisting around of my words, and to be honest kind of a perfect example of what the issue is here. Let's take a look again and this time I'll use an example;


I see your point but after 8 years here I gotta say, I think this particular issue is not as nit picky and crazy as some people here would say it is. Many people take a single snapshot of the community and decide it applies to the whole thing when in reality it's a rare occurrence. it is usually the people in the wrong who would have you believe it's the whole community with a "popular opinion'.

Example of this behaviour:

Mernetwork had never ever been referred to as having "bullies" until people began to post negative reviews about mertailor. Never. I think we had 3 reviews that could be seen as "negative" and when you read them, people were really careful with their words. Then, we have mertailor make post after post about mernetwork on his personal FB page calling everyone bullies. To his hoards and hoards of fans. HE was in the wrong for treating his clients poorly, but spun it differently to his fans and began to push this agenda in his attempt to discredit anyone who looks at mernetwork. His hope that potential clients will believe it's just "haters" and not legit reviews.

You can see this exact mentality play out in the merrowfins thread. Someone else jumped in to a situation they weren't involved with, got things wrong, was politely corrected, and decided we are bullies which prompted multiple FB postings from other people not involved.

You get all these fans and followers of these people who aren't in the forums, or only come in and see a 'snapshot' and decide the entire forum is that one thing they're looking at. Ergo, we're all bullies. Ergo, Mernetwork is a bad place you can't learn anything from.

Plenty of people will tell you "I stay off mernetwork because so and so told me it's full of bullies" and usually so and so is someone who was actually reprimanded for breaking rules, and was the one causing the problems to begin with.

The popular opinion that was created by people committed to causing harm to mernetwork, and exploiting mermaids, is that mernetwork is just a place full of bullies and you shouldn't trust them for information or honest reviews or anything (you know, despite the huge efforts made to make sure reviews are legit as possible- which is even more hilarious because mertailor tried to exploit it by making fake accounts and making fake positive reviews lol) and that constant insistence of bullying makes people see bullying where it actually isn't. Or makes people already come into the forum feeling defensive (as others have given examples)


Now to address your intentional epic manipulation of my words....

No where did I say any of that, nor do I ever promote anything like that. I do think I can sit here and link you actual example after example of these cases in which to provide you with the proof that "it's not as bad as you think it is". I don't know how you get "if someone expresses a divergent opinion, and then everyone else proceeds to jump down their throat about it, it's their own fault for being wrong"

That would make no sense for me to say at all considering that would then apply to me and be me validating yeah it's OK people treat me like shit if they think I'm wrong (which happens a lot since I am very vocal). It would also make no sense considering I helped get mernetwork off the ground so people had a place to begin with to actually debate and discuss.

I am talking about these specific dramas mernetwork is known for (such as copying) and how people in the wrong will often manipulate and exploit it. Honestly, I think i've given more than enough examples of it in all the posts on here.

(side note: I have no idea why the italics wont go away in this post)

[PearlieMae]

Well, I couldn't find the other thread after a cursory search, but I submit this thread instead: http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?12877


...how much does someone have to change an existing technique before it's no longer copying or infringing? If (hypothetically) I wanted to sell individual scale tails too, how much do I have to change my technique so I'm not copying Pearlie?

I see the other point you're making, though. If I made such tails, I would NEVER claim to have invented the method myself. That's just rude. :)

Thing is, if you are making individual scale method tails - aka the Pearlie Method - unless you are making one with glow in the dark moons in the fluke and white spots up the blue sides, etc...you are not copying my work, you are using a technique that I am known for. Mermaid Odette would argue that she's the first to do individually scaled tails, but she did not share her technique. I didn't even know she'd done such a thing until my tail was nearly done! "The Pearlie Method" became the popular vernacular for the unwieldy 'Individual Scale Method'... and the moniker was bestowed - I didn't make it up!

[AniaR]

I just feel where you did put out a tutorial, it makes me happy to see so many people referring to you as the pearlie mae method. it happens in other communities :)

[PearlieMae]

I can't deny that my overblown ego loves when I see it mentioned!