Dolphinkick without fin- question

[Echidna]

hey all, I've been wondering about something for a while now.
Not sure if this has ever come up before!

So here goes:

traditional monofins displace water (like a manatee's fluke does), and hydrotour-fins,
like the Lunocet or Dol-Fin, function like a dolphin fluke insofar as they use a different mechanic and rather "fly" through the water (the mechanic that planes use in air).

Or, in science speak:
dolphins swim using oscillations of pointed, wing-like caudal flukes, which is much faster than swimming with dorso-ventral undulations of a broad, flattened tail like manatees do.

Now, my idea and question:

has anyone who regularly swims underwater dolphin without tail/fins ever tried turning their feet out like 1st position in ballet, and swim like that?
It would be super interesting to see if this would technically change the "manatee style" swim to hydrotouring.
I'd try it myself, but I can't turn my feet out far enough (I was born with a leg anomaly and never could do ballet professionally because of the lacking outturn)

You'd have to be able to turn your feet out to a flawless 1st position, or even more, for this to work.
Maybe there's some ballerina-mer about who would like to try?

[Kait]

I've never tried it with mermaid kicking but you turn your feet right out and then return to point while doing breastsroke (ie frog kicking) so it would be a combination of the 2 kicking styles. I'm intrigued, I'll have to try it next time I jump in the pool.

[Mermaid Arabella]

I swam underwater dolphin sans-monofin for a month (while "earning" my monofin) but I never thought about my foot turnout. It was probably somewhat significant, b/c I seem to have the opposite anatomy that you do - I can't get my feet to be parallel! I'll see what I can do next time I swim barefoot but I've been working consistently with my new monofin lately so I can "earn" my tail, so I don't know when that'll be :p

[MermaidCelesteFL]

My right ankle naturally turns out, putting my right foot at a 90 degree angle when I walk (It's why running is very difficult for me). However, when I am in the water, my technique corrects my ankle placement.

With water resistance, you would find that swimming with your feet at that angle wouldn't be feasible. Ankles are kinda necessary for the dolphin kick, so you would be losing a portion of your propulsion if you did that. And you would look ridiculous.

[Echidna]

With water resistance, you would find that swimming with your feet at that angle wouldn't be feasible. Ankles are kinda necessary for the dolphin kick, so you would be losing a portion of your propulsion if you did that. And you would look ridiculous.

yea, that part was worrying me a bit (the ankle placement, not looking ridiculous. I have experimented with many uncommon variations of kicking to get a more snakelike movement, and some of them surely looked hilarious.)

And strictly speaking, whales/dolphins don't have ankles but manage to swim just fine. xD
Maybe it's not possible to emulate, but some things simply have not been thought of (and not many people can turn their feet out that far).

[suzanne86]

You would probably be creating more drag, so whatever extra propulsion you would achieve would be offset by the greater forward resistance you would create with your ankles in that position. // On an unrelated topic but also of antiquarian interest, once upon a time the butterfly stroke was swam using the breaststroke kick (frog kick), and only later was it changed to the dolphin kick. In Masters swim competitions, some of the older swimmers still swim fly that way (with the breaststroke kick), because that's the way they learned how to do it back in the day.

[MermaidCelesteFL]

You would probably be creating more drag, so whatever extra propulsion you would achieve would be offset by the greater forward resistance you would create with your ankles in that position. // On an unrelated topic but also of antiquarian interest, once upon a time the butterfly stroke was swam using the breaststroke kick (frog kick), and only later was it changed to the dolphin kick. In Masters swim competitions, some of the older swimmers still swim fly that way (with the breaststroke kick), because that's the way they learned how to do it back in the day.

I actually swam this way when I was in water polo. We used it for warm ups.

[Echidna]

^that's interesting.
I imagine doing butterfly with a frog kick is more natural, dolphin combined with hectic arm flail always looked incongruous to me.
But then I've never been good at armflail of any kind :D