*VIDEO* The mercommunity and it's approach to mers of color and cultures.

[Mermaid Momo]

There has been a lot going on recently in the mer world that has some kind of effect on the mers of color in it, and I just got fed up with it and made a video about the problems the community has when it comes to culture sensitivity and mers of color.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye9peX3lOfQ&feature=youtu.be

[SeaGlass Siren]

Bump up!

[Mermaid Aria]

Beautifully said Momo! :clap::clap:

[Acqua Luna]

Fantastically said Mermiad Momo!

[Mermaid Kassandra]

Point one I love your voice, your hair and your headdress 😍
Point two well said dear, I saw that in those days there have been some "strange facts" but actually I never realized it was going to this awful situation...
And what shocked me is that those famous mermaids are making it worse... I really wasn't expecting this from a mermaid that should care about that.

P.S. I find something magical in seeing mermaids of other cultures I don't understand why other people are always asking for the stereotype of the white blond mermaid.... -.-

[Mermaid Aria]

Point one I love your voice, your hair and your headdress 😍
Point two well said dear, I saw that in those days there have been some "strange facts" but actually I never realized it was going to this awful situation...
And what shocked me is that those famous mermaids are making it worse... I really wasn't expecting this from a mermaid that should care about that.

P.S. I find something magical in seeing mermaids of other cultures I don't understand why other people are always asking for the stereotype of the white blond mermaid.... -.-
I agree with this 100%

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[AniaR]

I am excited to watch this :D https://media2.giphy.com/media/l0K4m0mzkJDAIdhHW/200_s.gif

[AniaR]

Thoughts while watching:

the fans sounds like ocean water haha. Do I have you on fb? if not add me. Raina Mer.

I also agree that you have a LOVELY voice, and you look kick ass

Merman Juku also made a video about these casting calls. I wonder if that mermaid has seen these videos yet or understands how much they're upsetting people
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDI8IMmG8N8

I can't believe you were asked if you have a white mermaid omfg.

Amazing points about what is and what isnt a costume, and hitting the nail on the white girl trying to be "exotic"

I am planning a celtic shoot at some point, as it's a huge part of my heritage. But I have been researching through both my family and online about symbols and what they mean and what's appropriate for me to use and what's not. I want to do it as an example of how we can use our OWN cultures for inspiration.

Do you have a FB fanpage? I was trying to tag you in sharing the video.

drowna sailor- LOL made me giggle.

I love your tumblr.

Thank you so much for addressing all of this stuff. I dont remember if I saw the Japanese slur thing. I have called out the racism around the dolphin hunt to the point I got into an argument with Paul Watson of Sea Shepherd. I would like to think I would of said something but I do think I may have totally missed that discussion. The immigrant discussion I saw after the fact (long) but it made my blood boil as do 75% of the comments I see from that person.

I went ahead and posted your video on the mernetwork facebook. :) I am glad you're done "being nice and tiptoing" I feel the same way about the issues I see. I try to speak up for cultural appropriation as well but I feel like I can only speak for the responsibility of being white and not appropriating others. When I posted my blog, all I got was people making excuses to allow themselves to continue. And a lot of defensiveness.

Race DOES matter and only people who dont face injustice because of theirs think it doesnt.

The having this mermaid as YEMAYAH THE AFRICAN MERMAID GODDESS was also really upsetting to a lot of people as well.

I recently had a run in with this mermaid because another mer I had issues with tried to start drama between us with a few lies, so this mermaid reached out to me. We are in an OK place, but I had to really advocate for myself, and it was sad that in all my years personally supporting this person, they would believe someone they barely knew over someone they've known for like 10 years. It was also sad that they only seemed to make time for me because of drama. Normally I'd be right up on sending a person all this stuff and saying hey you need to look at this. I know some of my friends have tried speaking to her.

I know this mermaid was raised by a family that practices a lot of cultural stuff, and literally lived in some of the places for a long time where she draws her inspiration from. I don't believe she is trying to hurt or offend anyone, but I also think because of her upbringing she doesn't understand what is so hurtful about these things.

I think it would be really good if people actually messaged her and sent her the videos and left comments etc, I do think she comes from a place of love and has the capacity to change once educated... but for the time being she doesnt understand why her stuff is wrong. And kinda like you said 'I don't always want to be the one to do it'. I think it comes better from the people directly affected. That way for those of us watching (though it IS important for bystanders to speak up) it doesn't look like we're making things up or just trying to get in on drama if that makes any sense.

Anyway I am sharing the shit out of that video. I think it's awesome. I am also going to reference it in a mermaid Monday Video.

[SeaGlass Siren]

This... Was in the comments section of Eric's video....

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[AniaR]

OH MY GAWD SERIOUSLY.

I commented on that, I urge others to as well.

37915

[Mermaid Alea]

That really is horrible that someone asked if a white mermaid would wear your tail. You know, when you said that I thought about all the effort you put into creating that beautiful tail for yourself and then to be told they don't want you in that tail you worked so hard to create!? That is really unacceptable. You know, of the other mers on Mernetwork you have always stood out to me as being someone who seems to be really good at getting into character (from what I have gathered from your previous posts around the forum) so I believe they really missed out not hiring YOU.

[Mermaid Jaffa]

I haven't had a problem with racial slurs of any kind at my current pool. The lifeguards are really chill and always look out for me.

Whereas the pool where I used to live, I had one or two people outright claim there's no such thing as Chinese mermaid, which made me feel really bad, and even worse of a swimmer because at that time I was still learning the mermaid swim and hiding in a corner of the pool to practice cos I couldn't swim.

[Mermaid Kassandra]

That really is horrible that someone asked if a white mermaid would wear your tail. You know, when you said that I thought about all the effort you put into creating that beautiful tail for yourself and then to be told they don't want you in that tail you worked so hard to create!? That is really unacceptable. You know, of the other mers on Mernetwork you have always stood out to me as being someone who seems to be really good at getting into character (from what I have gathered from your previous posts around the forum) so I believe they really missed out not hiring YOU.




Definitely agree 210% whaaat!?!?! You are too kind Momo if someone would ask me something like this I think I would drown him/she!

[AniaR]

If it's OK I'm going to post the other two videos on this topic in this thread so when we tryna track it all down on mernetwork it's a bit easier to find them all in the same place:

Andrea's Video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_N0JuBuJPI&feature=youtu.be

Juku's video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDI8IMmG8N8

[Mermaid Ankhali]

Wow, Mermaid Momo. As another African-American mermaid, I really respect this video and what you have said. Fortunately, I was never made aware of racism or cultural appropriation such as this in the mercommuntity, but obviously I am plenty aware of it in general. I have noticed, though, that it seems very difficult to find mers of color in general, and I don't think that I have ever seen one of them in the spotlight like Hannah and Melissa are. At first I just thought that there weren't a lot of us, but this video is eye-opening. This community should be a place that welcomes people of all races, colors and cultures. The oceans do not belong to any one people. I applaud you for making this video. If minorities want to see a change, we have to be the ones to push for it. Good luck to you, Sister, and all of the other Mers of color out there. Come out of the shadows![emoji1490][emoji1491][emoji860]


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[Mermaid Ankhali]

You know, I really respected Hannah. And as a mer of color, this is really disappointing and disheartening to see. Smh so sad


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[Mermaid Caspiana]

I've always thought the most interesting mers were of multiple cultures. I feel like that's how natural mermaids would be, deriving from different underwater tribe type things and such, just like humans. I think th POTC movie did pretty well at this, in the mermaid scene, they included a lot of ethnicities and the main mermaid isn't the typical blonde.

[anami]

I loved what you said. Im glad every one is talking about this. Its the sitting by that allows a vocal group, who are likely now the minority, to perpetuate racism. I really believe its great that people are saying they wont put up with it and others then to say they wont either. I didnt see the posts that were derogatory and I mostly read on here and rarely post, but if I saw those posts, I would have called them out too. And that's the thing, its not all on one or some of our shoulders its on all of our shoulders and we all need to stop letting those statements and "jokes" go by...say something. I have gotten dozens of people who "meant no harm" to stop saying faggot and that's gay. Now I hear them calling other people out. And thats how it spreads. People are sheep lets move the herd in the right direction.

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[AniaR]

I think the tricky thing too is because she's a huge leader in the community people want to emulate her and think it's OK if she does something. Whether she likes it or not. I mean I get that issue too lol

[anami]

Being famous comes with responsibility...that's a fact. Your behavior becomes more important. This is a prime topic in the burlesque world too with Dita Von Tease closing her current show in yellow face sexualizing a painful part of history

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[merwandering]

Regardless of her skills, let's talk about the statement that she "most embodied the qualities of the role". of an African goddess.
an African goddess,
more than any woman of actual African descent.

and then based on looking for a makeup artist, she also most embodies the Asian role.
a message that, especially shared publicly, by someone with a high profile, through the lens of all that is going on in America, is so detrimental. There is an undercurrent of 'white is better' in America, and it is causing massive social problems

this project was a huge opportunity to promote diversity and respect world culture. This message does the opposite.

I edited my original statement, because while it did express what I meant, after thinking about it, it is not the most productive way to say it.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Agreed. Mer wandering hit all the additional points

[AniaR]

yup. you nailed it

[Mermaid Momo]

Sorry I've been so quiet, work is killing me haha. I'm so happy that the community is so welcoming to the video and are (so far from those who've spoken up) are so willing to listen to our voices and actually learn from it.

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[Mermaid Jaffa]

Until I came here, I didn't know yellow face was a thing. I always thought it was ignorant people doing stupid copying crap. Like how in the movies years ago, they'd get a white guy to play an Asian or African person.

[drucilla]

Yellow face/ black face is racist. Wearing someone's culture as a costume racist. But hairstyles I don't agree with, unless it is a costume and is specifically about/from one culture and meant to be a costume or derogatory towards that culture.
I have not seen the video or pictures of the specific mermaid people are talking about but I will review them for myself and then form my opinion. But like I said black face and yellow face I consider racist/ are racist.

[Merman Dan]

What if one imitates an accent? Cultural appropriation? You know after I watch Monty Pythons Flying Circus I always get stuck in an English accent. And using a thick southern drawl around here is just common courtesy.

[drucilla]

I actually have a condition called the chameleon effect and I unknowingly imitate the accent of whomever I am interacting with. It is extremely embarrassing because I will just keep talking in that accent the whole time without even thinking about it, my husband has to help me explain it to people because it can come off like I'm mimicking them on purpose. This is why I prefer typing than talking because this way I can talk to people without taking part of them in and mirroring it back basically.

[Mermaid Jaffa]

Yellow face/ black face is racist. Wearing someone's culture as a costume racist. But hairstyles I don't agree with, unless it is a costume and is specifically about/from one culture and meant to be a costume or derogatory towards that culture.
I have not seen the video or pictures of the specific mermaid people are talking about but I will review them for myself and then form my opinion. But like I said black face and yellow face I consider racist/ are racist.
Ah I see your point now. I knew they were being racist, in the old movies, but just didn't know there was a name for such things.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Drucill here's where I disagree with you in the hair thing.

ill give you an example I personally dealt with.

People from my race are racist against black people simply for being black and yet will take their boxed braids and corn row hairstyles and rap music because it's "cool". We never had those styles back then and the trend is fairly recent.

How is that ok?

[SeaGlass Siren]

Don't get me wrong I'm still keeping in mind the whole Viking hair discussion and remember that merwanderings hair naturally dreads on itself. You can't help that..
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about people who take this style and do this on purpose because it's cool all the while being racist to the people whose style belonged to in the first place.

[AniaR]

For anyone interested, Hannah gave me a reply. I honestly feel this is a generational gap thing. I am not trying to defend her, moreso come from a place of empathy on both sides. The comments she makes are what a lot of well meaning people would make without understanding of the gravity of the situation. I am hoping this is a step in the right direction - though she clearly doesn't totally get the points everyone is trying to make to her. I think she feels attacked which she shouldn't, because everyone is just trying to enlighten her. In the same way she tries to enlighten others about ocean activism.

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[SeaGlass Siren]

Hannah... No. Just no.
This was never about you. In fact most of us respected you for your work in ocean activism. This was never about your work in ocean activism.

No we don't hate you. But we are angry at you.
We hate that you're appropriating cultures. We hate that you're not acknowledging your privledge. We hate that you contribute to the racism mers of colour face everyday. We hate that while you are actively promoting anti racism and one love, you're not opening up your eyes and seeing you're doing the Complete opposite.
We don't hate you. We are not hating on you because of your positive work. We're hating on your actions that affect Mers of Colour. THAT is what causes the separation.



If you want us to focus on love and for us to truly be united, then act on that love and listen to us. Act on it and stop allowing the separation to happen. Only then can everyone be united.

[Mer-Crazy]

I just want to say something here quickly and then swim away, if I offend then I apologise sincerely it was not my intention but I want to say something regardless.

If not Hannah... then do we honestly think Cirq would have picked a black mermaid if she had turned it down? Or would they have picked another talented white mermaid? Perhaps accepting the position was not the best choice, and believing it should not offend people is wrong but how are we to know the organisers would have picked a black mermaid if Hannah had turned the role down?

[SeaGlass Siren]

I think Raina and Eric already covered that point. There's so many White Sea goddesses they could've used as a character for her. Instead they chose a black goddess and casted a white person.

[Sapphire Mermaid]

Cultural Appropriation is a huge issue, I completely agree. And I completely agree that they shouldn't have cast a white person to play a black goddess. It's Old Hollywood all over again.

What I am about to say is in no way lessening the fact that these decisions were wrong and should never have been made. I just feel there are some issues with calling certain situations out as cultural appropriation should be done so very carefully, which I know from personal experiences, so please, hear me out here:

Where the line falls fuzzy for me is when you actually, genuinely come from a cultural background that is anything but what you look. Personally, my great Grandmother was, what people here know as, a half cast. She was half Indigenous Australian, half European Australian. Personally, I am as white as they get. My skin is pale. I burn easy, I don't tan, my hair is naturally blonde, and I have blue eyes. I use the palest of any make up brand you can find, because that's the colour I am. So many times I have been called out for cultural appropriation of Indigenous Australians, but it is in my blood. Just because I am freaking pale (seriously, I almost glow in the dark), should I not respect my cultural heritage in case people think it is cultural appropriation? Indigenous Australian hair styles included dreadlocks, but if I do that, I am called appropriator. If I paint my face in traditional ways, I am called appropriator. If I use traditional smoke ceremonies, I am called appropriator. But I am of that culture.
My great grandfather was Irish, and my grandfather was too, but I don't have the accent because my mum didn't, so should I stop enjoying my family's history and showing my respect to them with Celtic knots and symbols, even though I was raised with a Grandfather that took pride in his family history and identity? Should I not have learned Irish Dancing, worn traditional dance dresses, and shared it with the world, simply because I am not labelled as Irish because of where I was born?

I was raised with pride in my heritage, and I was raised with acceptance of other cultures, purely because I am from so many. If I share something from any of my cultures with someone, and they go away with an understanding and can use it in their every day life to help them get through this world, I don't mind. Again, when things are done ignorantly like they were with Hannah in this case, I think it is all sorts of wrong. Use another name. Use a different mer icon. They all could have applied in this situation. Pick any of the hundreds of white mermaid legends to go with. Better yet, use a black mer to portray a black goddess! Give someone else a go at the spotlight for a damn minute.

All I want anyone who has read this to take from what I have written is that not everyone you think is culturally appropriating, actually is. You don't know their family history, you don't know their identity. Please just be kind and ask nicely before you scream appropriation at them. It has happened to me, and it is hurtful. I am an open book. If you want to ask, just ask. Most people would want the same before they are called ignorant.

[AniaR]

If not Hannah... then do we honestly think Cirq would have picked a black mermaid if she had turned it down? Or would they have picked another talented white mermaid? Perhaps accepting the position was not the best choice, and believing it should not offend people is wrong but how are we to know the organisers would have picked a black mermaid if Hannah had turned the role down?

I am actually shocked it even happened to begin with TBH. Circe in Canada seems to work really hard at staying true to the roots of stories. So I was surprised. I think it's equal responsibility. Both sides.


All I want anyone who has read this to take from what I have written is that not everyone you think is culturally appropriating, actually is.

Sure, but in this instance, it is. Hannah's family is famous (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Fraser). Her lineage is public knowledge. ;) This isn't a matter of nitpicking. it's fairly clear cut.

[AniaR]

I actually had a nice private conversation with Hannah and encouraged her to really listen to everyone and acknowledge that she is learning and try to do better. I hope it all works out.

I think regardless of what Hannah said, this is still a conversation that needed to happen in the community, and I applaud all the people speaking up and sharing their stories.

I honestly do believe as I said previously, it's a bit of a generational gap. I believe Hannah can do better with knowledge, information, and understanding, and I am happy to give her a chance to do so. But I am also so proud of everyone. Honestly, the mers of colour, gay mers, trans mers, non binary mers, you've all taught me so much! <3

[Sapphire Mermaid]

I completely agree, AniaR. I wrote that I agree at least twice in my piece. This is outright appropriation. Very clear cut.

And I am not nitpicking. I am stating that people need to be very careful when they say to someone they are appropriating. Just because someone doesn't look a certain way, doesn't mean they are what you assume. Stereotyping is another huge issue that goes hand in hand with appropriation and it is just as important to understand them both together as it is to understand them separately.

[AniaR]

And I am not nitpicking. I am stating that people need to be very careful when they say to someone they are appropriating. Just because someone doesn't look a certain way, doesn't mean they are what you assume. Stereotyping is another huge issue that goes hand in hand with appropriation and it is just as important to understand them both together as it is to understand them separately.

Your points are fair, but not relevant to this particular example. It's like saying "but remember, not ALL men." it's kinda undermining. I know you mean well by it, but I dont think people in this instance need to be reminded about it. We've had other threads you maybe haven't seen yet where we've discussed the things you mention at length :) in this instance, this is a specific example for which we know people aren't stereotyping.

[SeaGlass Siren]

For example her attempt at yellow face. ��☕️

[Sapphire Mermaid]

I was actually referring to a few of the comments from earlier in THIS thread about the use of cultural hair styles and costumes in relation to appropriation. That is called stereotyping and it is what people use to poorly portray another culture. Just like Japanese kimono are used to portray Japanese people. And the box braids are used to portray black people. The fact is, stereotypes were used to portray Hannah as a black goddess. That is what cultural appropriation is based around. It is entirely relevant. But thank you for your comment.

[AniaR]

Did you actually watch the 3 videos?? That is what these discussions are about. Mers of colour aren't running around stereotyping people in the community, this is pretty much the first time they've ever spoken up. That's why your comment is undermining.

Those comments you're referencing are specifically another thread. The posts can be found here: http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?1679-%28%28-The-Drama-Bubble-Thread-%29%29/page112

You can also find more in several other threads including one I started. Plenty of examples of how the mers here know not to stereotype.

[Raquel Skellington]

Momo you're such a beauty. As a Colored Mer (I'm native american) this was a very much needed video and thank you for putting yourself forward. Like the LARP community, the Mer community is alot of fun and amazing, but its multicultural person of color representation can be lacking. It's something to be worked on and speaking up is a great way to kickstart it. I'm proud to be a mer with you.

PS
Thank you for making my amazing top it looks FABULOUS in the video <3

[merwandering]

For the particular example that I was talking about, it just would have felt more respectful and aware, and acknowledging her realization of what was going on, from my perspective, if she had said "they wanted to use me, and I didn't even realize..." and then she stopped to listen, instead of that she "more embodied the qualities of the role" and DIDN"T stop to listen to why anyone was making a big deal about it.

(edited to take out the million words to say- I deeply understand the many aspects of, for example, locks. Taken out, 'cause- why mention it? BUT)

I don't know her story, and the locks didn't necessarily seem as offensive to me until I read her perspective, because I felt that it really was taking pretty pieces of whatever cultures, separate from their meaning.

[AniaR]

it just would have felt more respectful and aware, and acknowledging her realization of what was going on, from my perspective, if she had said "they wanted to use me, and I didn't even realize..." and then she stopped to listen, instead of that she "more embodied the qualities of the role" and DIDN"T stop to listen to why anyone was making a big deal about it.

exactly.

[Sapphire Mermaid]

At no point have I ever said a mer on here has been steroetyping? That isn't the point I am making at all. I am in full support of the fact that they are speaking up for themselves. I encourage all people to speak up when something isn't right. And I wasn't undermining anything Raina. I am stating that steroetyping and appropriating any culture is a bad thing. That shouldn't just apply to the situation of someome portraying a black character. The title of the thread even says colour AND culture. I would assume that the points Momo made stand true for any culture and the use of their items, costumes, rituals, and beliefs. My point was directed at the people who call out cultural appropriation where they actually don't know the person.

I will say it again, this situation with Hannah portraying a character who should never be anything but black, is wrong. I am not disputing that.

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[SeaGlass Siren]

The last point you made about people calling out cultural appropriation when you don't know the person was discussed in a other thread. Most of us know not to judge (we're a bunch of adults in tails who are we to judge lol)

[SeaGlass Siren]

Assuming by now everyone knows Hannah. She also attempted to portray an Asian person by asking if anyone knew how to do yellow face. She is not even remotely Asian �� for some reason I feel that everyone is forgetting that point? She isn't just trying to be black here. She's appropriating natives and Asians.

[merwandering]

(we're a bunch of adults in tails who are we to judge lol)
LOL!

[AniaR]

At no point have I ever said a mer on here has been steroetyping? That isn't the point I am making at all. I am in full support of the fact that they are speaking up for themselves. I encourage all people to speak up when something isn't right. And I wasn't undermining anything Raina. I am stating that steroetyping and appropriating any culture is a bad thing. That shouldn't just apply to the situation of someome portraying a black character. The title of the thread even says colour AND culture. I would assume that the points Momo made stand true for any culture and the use of their items, costumes, rituals, and beliefs. My point was directed at the people who call out cultural appropriation where they actually don't know the person.

I will say it again, this situation with Hannah portraying a character who should never be anything but black, is wrong. I am not disputing that.

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I think you're being overly defensive of my comments honestly. My replies are to your comment in which you said

All I want anyone who has read this to take from what I have written is that not everyone you think is culturally appropriating, actually is. You don't know their family history, you don't know their identity. Please just be kind and ask nicely before you scream appropriation at them.

I reminded you that it didn't apply in this specific situation, and didnt warrant the warning since we've already discussed it an length and could be undermining to the current discussion.


My point was directed at the people who call out cultural appropriation where they actually don't know the person.

^ which isn't, this discussion. And has been discussed elsewhere. It's like coming into a thread about violence against women and reminding people that not all men do that. Sure. but right now we're talking about those who do. Like how in this conversation, we're not talking about people wrongfully stereotyping out of ignorance and assuming someone is appropriating. We are talking about someone who did and the community's response to that.

If you don't understand my point by now, I dont think I can make it any clearer. So I guess I'm done.

[merwandering]

Will add my two cents, and point out that my (too long rambling) point bringing up dreads was to point out- I didn't immediately think 'cultural appropriation' on face value, when I saw the thing about her hair, until I looked at the whole thing- YES. YES cultural appropriation, from my perspective. She is specifically, and randomly, grabbing a bunch of different cultural attributes to LOOK MORE ETHNIC. Not just because it 'feels like her, and she grew up with it', though I was pointing out that I fully understand that perspective to some degree. It was just- random, ethnic, whatever she thought was pretty, but not because she thought it was pretty, becuase she thought it made her look ethnic. To me that IS cultural appropriation EVEN IF you grew up with it.

lol I suck at technology and quoted the wrong post

[merwandering]

At no point have I ever said a mer on here has been steroetyping? That isn't the point I am making at all. I am in full support of the fact that they are speaking up for themselves. I encourage all people to speak up when something isn't right. And I wasn't undermining anything Raina. I am stating that steroetyping and appropriating any culture is a bad thing. That shouldn't just apply to the situation of someome portraying a black character. The title of the thread even says colour AND culture. I would assume that the points Momo made stand true for any culture and the use of their items, costumes, rituals, and beliefs. My point was directed at the people who call out cultural appropriation where they actually don't know the person.

I will say it again, this situation with Hannah portraying a character who should never be anything but black, is wrong. I am not disputing that.

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But is there ever a time that yellowface WOULDN'T be appropriation? Do you really have to know anything more about the situation to call that one?

[SeaGlass Siren]

^ that!

[Sapphire Mermaid]

No, there is never a time when yellow face is acceptable. If you read my earlier comment, that was a reference to my personal experiences within my cultures growing up.

This is exactly my point. It doesn't just apply to the black mer community, and these points should be applied everywhere. No culture should be appropriated.

Raina, in every single thing I have posted I have agreed that this situation is blatant appropriation and I don't agree with any of the decisions that allowed this to happen. I am also allowed to add to that by saying that we, as humans, have to be careful about when and where we point the finger, though. I am not undermining anything in this thread by saying that. I am allowed to have a conversation by saying that it happens in all cultures, but don't assume when you see it. That is the entire point of having open and honest discussions about issues like this. In this case, Yes, it is most definitely out of line and is definitely appropriation, but that won't always be the case, even if it is seen as that way. If I want to remind people to not take everything on face value for every case of appropriation we see, I am allowed to do that, even if you think it isn't relevant or necessary. It is part of the conversation about appropriation and everything that goes with it. If you have talked about it on another thread as well, that's great. It is important to discuss every aspect of these issues when you can because everyone needs constant reminders that this happens. Just because it happens in one case, doesn't mean you stop talking about the ones where it doesn't happen. Just like with police. Yes, not all of them are good. But if we only talk about how bad they are when bad things happen, it creates negativity for all of them. Again, YES. THIS IS A BAD SITUATION AND I DO NOT SUPPORT ANY OF THE ACTIONS TAKEN BY THE PEOPLE INVOLVED IN THE DECISION MAKING FOR THIS. In saying that, I am also allowed to point out that it doesn't always happen that way. Open discussions always lead to better resolutions that closed ones.

It is also great that you have had a conversation with Hannah about this. Hopefully she starts to understand that this is a huge issue and people are upset about it.

[merwandering]

Editing bc OMG not thinking about the can of worms I DONT want to open.
But I think that was kind of her point, as far as the context, sometimes interjecting with a qualifying statement can do so much to damage focus on the magnitude of the issue at hand. It takes away from the salience of the specific conversation, to point out exceptions not relevant to the situation.

[Mermaid Whisper]

Merwandering, I'm simply amazed by all of your posts. While you're fairly new to MerNetwork, you've been doing nothing but giving us all your incredible insight and knowledge, whether it's in tailmaking or purchasing, or other matters, like this topic of cultural appropriation. Thank you for all that you do here on MN. :)

I follow Hannah on Instagram, and she does have a lot of posts using bits and pieces from other cultures, whether it's in what she's wearing or the way she has her makeup. As a makeup artist, I look at anyone like a canvas to be decorated, no matter their skin color. As a side note, I have always had a ton of admiration for Indian outfits and makeup, and even studied Hinduism in ninth grade. My project got a seal of approval from an Indian student :)

I just don't see how someone could, in a figurative sense, take a cultural piece out of context; just pluck a pretty piece from somewhere in the world without knowing anything about where it came from. I'm a big history nerd, so if I want to wear something from a different culture, I make dang sure I know all about it! It's really hard to watch people be so blind when it comes to something that is sacred to someone else. To me, it feels like when my sister, who always talks about Satan, demons, etc., wears a necklace with pentacles all over it, and then tells me to stop looking at religious symbols (from my religion) in a religious sense :headdesk:

[Sapphire Mermaid]

Editing bc OMG not thinking about the can of worms I DONT want to open.
But I think that was kind of her point, as far as the context, sometimes interjecting with a qualifying statement can do so much to damage focus on the magnitude of the issue at hand. It takes away from the salience of the specific conversation, to point out exceptions not relevant to the situation.

I am not trying to take anything away from the conversation. Momo literally says in her video she wants to hear ALL of the comments.
I know it happens, I know it is shit, and I know it needs to stop. I was raised with the spiritual belief that if you continue to look at only negative, then you become the negative. That is how racism, discrimination, and ignorance are bred on all levels. When you are dealing with a situation like this, you need to be aware of every aspect of the whole conversation. You don't get anywhere by just seeing only the negative and refusing to think of the positive. When you look at any turning point in history, the whole story is balanced. There are negatives, but for every one of those, there is a positive. Germans helping allied soldiers in WW2. White people helping black people in the 60's. Christians and Catholics speaking out against homophobia. It is f*****g horrible that Hannah has chosen to portray a black goddess and made a very uninformed decision (not the first from what I gather) about another culture. It would be devastating to so many if this issue were to become completely negative as it is such a positive movement. Yes, we have to take the bad shit that goes with it, but take the good as well. Don't say it isn't relevant, because every aspect of this movement is relevant.

[merwandering]

I do think you are coming from a place of love, which is why I just want to point out this aspect, using Raina's example
if I said "A man attacked me and now I hate men!" it would be relevant to say- "you know, I hate that you had a bad experience with men, but men in general are not bad"
If I said "A man attacked me and I am angry at *him*", I honestly think it would be very hurtful for you to say "men, in general, are not bad", because you are kind of glazing over what I'm saying. And what I'm saying is that I am hurt. And it is important. And that's what I'm trying to talk about for a minute.
She's saying, this specific thread was created because people were hurt.

edit: I guess more accurate to say, in this instance, "a man attacked me, and I am angry about this specific act"

[merwandering]

Merwandering, I'm simply amazed by all of your posts. While you're fairly new to MerNetwork, you've been doing nothing but giving us all your incredible insight and knowledge, whether it's in tailmaking or purchasing, or other matters, like this topic of cultural appropriation. Thank you for all that you do here on MN. :)

I follow Hannah on Instagram, and she does have a lot of posts using bits and pieces from other cultures, whether it's in what she's wearing or the way she has her makeup. As a makeup artist, I look at anyone like a canvas to be decorated, no matter their skin color. As a side note, I have always had a ton of admiration for Indian outfits and makeup, and even studied Hinduism in ninth grade. My project got a seal of approval from an Indian student :)

I just don't see how someone could, in a figurative sense, take a cultural piece out of context; just pluck a pretty piece from somewhere in the world without knowing anything about where it came from. I'm a big history nerd, so if I want to wear something from a different culture, I make dang sure I know all about it! It's really hard to watch people be so blind when it comes to something that is sacred to someone else. To me, it feels like when my sister, who always talks about Satan, demons, etc., wears a necklace with pentacles all over it, and then tells me to stop looking at religious symbols (from my religion) in a religious sense :headdesk:
Mermaid Whisper thank you so much! It sounds like you care a lot<3
I probably need to talk less, lol, because I get a little all over the place when I'm multitasking
which is always:(
but I do care:)

[Sapphire Mermaid]

I haven't glazed over anything that has been said here. I know people are hurting. I know people are pissed off. And I am saying they have every right to be. I haven't said that no one can feel hurt by this. I would be worried if people said they weren't offended by it. I am offended by what has happened. A large part of my extended family is African. No one should take their culture and change it for the wider market. I am fuming that she would accept something so significant without researching it and understanding it.
I also don't want to see people starting to generalise to every time and situation when they see of someone representing another culture.
What I am saying here, in short and to use your wording, I hate that this is happening and I wish the world would come to a greater understanding of all cultures. But please don't think that this is what happens every time in every situation, because it isn't. The world is changing and growing faster than ever before and people are becoming more and more educated on these issues. If we want people to continue to learn, we need to talk about all of it, negative AND positive.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

[merwandering]

I will just say this, and then call it agree to disagree:
I have soooo much the same tendency. I go into the mode of really trying to help examine all aspects of an issue for that exact purpose. But sometimes I catch myself or end up deleting a post because sometimes after I say it, I realize that while it was 100% true, the exact specifics of the context made it not the right place in the conversation to say it.
I was on the receiving end of that this week- I posted something (unrelated to this subject, and not on this forum) and someone replied to my post speaking their truth, something that was important to them, and well meaning, but it hit so hard that it made me cry.
I mean, it made me question whether they at all got where I was coming from
It felt disrespectful to what I was saying.
And I have to constantly watch that, while I hope people know that I am coming from a place of being constructive, that I am listening more than I am talking, and I am attentive enough to the exact context to know, in this exact moment of this exact conversation- is this statement helping in the big picture? And then I try to really think about where someone else is coming from if they say that, from their perspective, it isn't.

[Lucinda]

Mermaid Momo, you're raising some very valid concerns.

I was quite active in the thread revolving around the dolphin drive hunts. I remember that I was away from the forum for a while only to come back and discover that someone had went completely off the rails in that thread and said a lot of horrible things. "What the hell happened here?" I thought to myself as I was sifting through the post trying to figure out what was going on. The offensive post itself had already been censured by a moderator, but I managed to find a quote of it in another mer's post. I was completely dumbstruck by what I read and at the same time I wondered if this person could possibly have taken out of context some of the things I had written in the thread? Had I made too many sweaping generalisations about the Japanese? Did this person think that I was promoting hate and acted on that? Was this in any way my fault? Either way, the post had already been moderated so I suppose I figured that if anyone represents the official policy of the forum, it's the moderators and the admins.
By the time I had decyphered what exactly had been said, it all seemed like a done deal. The original post containing the slurs had been hacked to bits and the poster had been given an official warning. It seemed to me that the mer in question had already gotten a proper scolding from the moderator and was now left to ponder their mistake. Or maybe I didn't respond the slurs because the issue was just making me uncomfortable and I was trying not to think about it?
I suppose all these years of hanging out on the web have desensitized me to this kind of behaviour. Seeing, on a daily basis, the stuff that comes out of trolls has that effect. That sounds like a pretty lame excuse, though. I know. You easily start to think that since these kinds of things happen all the time, hence there's no point in making a bigger deal of it that it already is. But as I've come to realise, the elephant in the room won't go away on its own. It's always different if you're on the receiving end of something like this. I remember that sense of betrayal from my school years...when you have all these bystanders just standing around like sheep doing nothing while others are saying and doing horrid things.

I have a saying "Don't act like own the place. Act like you ARE the place". In other words, if I want Mernetwork to be a warm and welcoming place then I need to ask myself: What can I do to make it more warm and welcoming? If not being a sheep... if calling people out on their shit is what's needed, then so be it. We're a community. We're a family. It's time we started acting like one.

If I've failed anyone through my inability to act, I'm truly sorry.

[SeaGlass Siren]

She has responded to larondas video and my video with nearly the exact same response.

[Becoming_A_Mermaid]

I agree with so much of this but I don't understand the hairstyle issues? Maybe someone could explain? Growing up I've always wanted micro braids, and I am very obviously white. My mom told me that she had friends growing up that had micro braids and all of my african american friends have said that anyone can rock a hairstyle, because so many hairstyles are interwoven through so many different cultures. And in the same light I had a friend growing up who had dreads along with one of my moms best friends who has dreads, both are white, and no one ever seems to have an issue because dreads are in so many different cultures.
So im just trying to understand is it bad to like a hairstyle because you aren't directly from the culture where it is worn most?
Because to me it isn't about choosing a hairstyle to be more edgy, it's about choosing a hairstyle that makes me feel confident.

[Sea_Angel_Rusalka]

I'm actually curious....what did happen with the Asian Makeup Mermaid? What was the result of it? Does anyone know? I really would like some more information!

Now that the question is out of the way:
Momo, this is a fantastic video. Your concerns are very valid. Your trials and fight to be accepted as a mermaid are well worth it and you are such a respected member in this community.
There are a couple points I'd like to agree with in particular: The use of dreads to look more "Down to earth" and "angry" are completely terrible. Dreads are a thing rooted in many cultures across the globe and rarely ever meant dirty or aggressive. Dreads have been associated with power in the bible (Sampson and have roots in many cultures as symbols of religion or status. (Egypt, Greece, Africa, Buddhism, Christianity, Viking just as a start.) They should never be seen as dirty or unclean or "Aggressive." )
Tribal: It's a phrase that makes me want to cringe. It happened back that a certain fandom created "Tribalstuck." the outcry was great. It falls into the warpaint, head dress, marking type of things. If people are invited into it and to take a part of it, then there's a difference, but using "Tribal" as some weird marked aesthetic to just look "cool." It has a cultural meaning that very few are invited into. Some cultures are more open to letting foreigners in, and that is for them to decide. Maori now use it as a way of respecting others, but that is there choice!

Links on the history of dreads in cultures:
https://www.knottyboy.com/learn/dreadlock-history/
http://ragingrootsstudio.com/the-history-of-dreadlocks/

[SeaGlass Siren]

hang on sending you screencaps

[merwandering]

Would it be helpful if we started a dreads thread? (though actually a locks thread, lol)
because I do think it is a worthwhile exchange, and while it was specifically mentioned in the video, I also see the point of not focusing on that piece of the video in that way on this thread....

[Sea_Angel_Rusalka]

I was merely stating my agreement with her on these points in particular, that's all. (And thought I'd provide some links in case anyone was curious)

[merwandering]

I was asking because I did the same thing, not criticizing, and not speaking of you specifically, I promise:)
More because I think it really is its own whole discussion, and deserves to be, and what I did realize is that when that totally worthy discussion unfolds, the other issues are no longer being addressed and the rest of the conversation is being lost in the shuffle (based in part on my own comments!)

[Sea_Angel_Rusalka]

Thank you, I understand now. Honestly, there needs to be an entire discussion of appropriation, appreciation, the thin line, and respecting people of color and other cultures.

[AniaR]

But I think that was kind of her point, as far as the context, sometimes interjecting with a qualifying statement can do so much to damage focus on the magnitude of the issue at hand. It takes away from the salience of the specific conversation, to point out exceptions not relevant to the situation.

Exactly. I dont know why that is so hard to grasp other than innate defensiveness that everyone carries around when dealing with touchy subjects.


I haven't glazed over anything that has been said here.

She didnt say you did, she was giving an example. You keep taking examples personally.



Literally, this IS one of the biggest issues when talking about appropriation because it silences those being appropriated. Good intentions or not! It's why we need to say, that discussion is not relevant to this specific one. It undermines it.

[AniaR]

The issue of hair has already been discussed at length with many relevant examples in the Drama thread for anyone who missed it.

[SeaGlass Siren]

AH... the dreaded thread. (punintended)

[merwandering]

Only thinking that because it keeps coming up
plus after a while there will be piles of other stuff there and it will be hard to see what was said- it might be a good space to perspective share/perseverate
lol

[SeaGlass Siren]

I THINK ((oops caps)) it would be pretty cool if we had a separate section for the coloured mers on here. you know like a sort of online "little italy" "little chinatown" "little korea town "little portugal" you know? we did have a threat earlier on discussing our roots and where we came from.

[Sea_Angel_Rusalka]

I came into this conversation and stated that Dreads have cultural significance to people of color from many cultures and its facing erasure to hippies, smoking weed, aggression and specifically tied to one group of color. I can't speak about her struggle as a person of color because it is different from mine where I fight to claim my stake as a Native American where people only see me as White because of my german last name, assuming that when I wear blue contacts and blonde wigs that that is how I am naturally. That I was told I was too white to be Native. This is my contribution. This is what I thought is what she asked for. Who are we to police her thread about cultural diversity and representing POC when POC is everywhere and varying. That tribal paint worn as a type of costume is wrong. That dreads and locks and braids as aggressive or dirty is wrong. I am trying to contribute as someone who is Native American and never recognized. I grew up in a state where diversity was every day and we were inducted into the culture and we were put into kimono and taught respect for everyone and we were brought to temples and shown and taught the ways to praise the gods and be just and be respectful of the land where people were proud of their heritage and taught others and brought us into the symbols and the meanings and shared their religion and their culture. I was taught to respect and not to classify.

I'm sorry that I was seen as "off topic" but now I am "off topic" but when you are perceived "white" but you are raised in the states in a Japanese/Hawaiian/Samoan community what are you to do? You're on the outside and you can't touch the cultures you are tied the most too. I am trying to respect Momo, contribute, provide thought provoking commentary without drawing a battle line in the sand of "look but dont touch." We have to open ourselves to experiences and try to understand. I didn't think that commentating on things that she brought up in the video was wrong or off topic. Yes, I brought up things because "You go Momo, you stand up for yourself" only goes so far. It takes discussion to create changes in communities. So I'm more back on topic I'll leave this thread and not post again and leave it with this.

Yes, it was wrong of a company to ask a white mermaid to play an African Goddess.
Yes, it is wrong to parade around and claim something as your own with no meaning or significance to yourself.
Don't ask to look more Chinese or Asian or paint yourself a different skin tone because Race is not something you get to change yourself into to look "exotic" or "cool"

[AniaR]

I'm sorry that I was seen as "off topic" but now I am "off topic"

Nobody has, or is saying that to you. Just redirecting to where there is already a discussion on the hair issue specifically. Because we've already posted many historial links etc. So people might want to read that stuff first before we sidebar this thread into a repeat of the same stuff.

Pointing out when something undermines a point /=/ "policing" a thread. Redirecting to other relevant links /=/ policing a thread.


I THINK ((oops caps)) it would be pretty cool if we had a separate section for the coloured mers on here

Maybe a thread on multiculturalism, or cultural issues, or diversity? We have the gender and sexuality one, along with a thread for mermen and a thread for religion/athiests

[SeaGlass Siren]

Yes! Exactly what I meant :)

[merwandering]

The reason I backtracked about the locks issue in this thread, is that while it was brought up, looking at the original post, this is to initiate conversation about how, as a mermaid community, we can come together to address issues deeply affecting some members (and really, affecting everyone who would like to live in a world that really IS one world, one love). A conversation about how, as a community, we can change how much diversity is respected and embraced in a way that makes the diverse members of the community FEEL respected and embraced.
So in that context, I didn't feel like the answer was "hi, I'm white, can we talk about why maybe it's cool if I go ahead and have dreads?"
(because in my head, my answer to THAT question would have been, "actually, for five seconds can we not??")

[AniaR]

see I just love everything you say

[Mermaid Whisper]

see I just love everything you say

I told her the exact same thing :D

[SeaGlass Siren]

:slow clap:

[merwandering]

You have no idea how much respect I have for some of you guys initiating and leading these conversations, and you aren't just doing it here. Because someone agrees with you or not, discussing it is so important and seriously what needs to happen everywhere to create change and make the world a better place. You are so fully fighting the good fight, and standing up in a way that makes you have to deal with a lot of extra crap, but it is also the way that makes a difference, so you are doing it anyway. I have the deepest gratitude, because you do it on all of our behalf. You are respectful but quick to call out incongruencies. You open dialogue, inform, and call to action. You are absolutely beautiful.
So, thank you.
so much.
I'm now convinced that when the Dalai Lama said that the world will be saved by the Western woman, I'm pretty sure he was talking about some badass mermaids.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Your words are so kind... i don't know how to deal.

http://mernetwork.com/index/attachment.php?attachmentid=37991&d=1468265036

[PearlieMae]

...

I'm now convinced that when the Dalai Lama said that the world will be saved by the Western woman, I'm pretty sure he was talking about some badass mermaids.

He was if he knows what's good for him. ;)

[Mermaid Momo]

And I am back! I had a ton of stuff to do since my last post in this thread (including my nephew getting a fever of 109 and all of us panicking because he was having seizures and trying to find a job for when I go back to school) and it seems a lot has happened in this thread since then too!

I tried to catch up as best as I can but reading through 3 pages, a few things may have gotten garbled or mixed up and I'm sorry for that. In this post I'm going to comment on what posts stood out the most to me (basically what I could remember the most from the 3 pages binge)

1) Don't be so quick to call cultural appropriation because I look white but I am 'x' ethnicity or have this ethnicity in my ancestors somewhere:

Firstly, you have to realize that you look white and as such you have white privilege and still don't face the same problems that people of that ethnicity who are clearly not white face. A white passing black person with an afro is still cooler than a dark skinned black person with an afro and the same goes for all other races. (here's an article about how a black man who became with from vitiligo lived a much different life than when he was clearly black (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1201841/I-turned-black-white-How-skin-disordered-changed-mans-identity-place-world.html)). Someone who is clearly that ethnicity are still judged and ridiculed for wearing what is a part of their culture while someone who is white passing is praised with the same thing ( ex: bindis, braids, native headdresses, etc)
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1480790/images/o-KATY-PERRY-facebook.jpg

https://criticalbeautyanalysis.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/christina-aguiera_herinterest-com_.png?w=352&h=460&crop=1https://criticalbeautyanalysis.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/wenn5947749.jpg?w=307&h=460&crop=1

2) Hair.

A lot of people can't seem to grasp the concept of why hair is so important. So here are some videos and articles
https://criticalbeautyanalysis.wordpress.com/2016/04/12/cultural-appropriation-of-beauty/
http://www.refinery29.com/2015/02/82786/zendaya-giuliana-rancic-dreadlock-comment
http://blavity.com/why-its-not-just-about-kylies-hair/
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-31438273

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=41&amp;v=U48565qmqUk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1KJRRSB_XA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuO8Z12Ri1U

I probably missed some of the stuff being talked about in the thread, if I did just let me know

[drucilla]

1) Don't be so quick to call cultural appropriation because I look white but I am 'x' ethnicity or have this ethnicity in my ancestors somewhere:

Firstly, you have to realize that you look white and as such you have white privilege and still don't face the same problems that people of that ethnicity who are clearly not white face.

I find this statement extremely racist and completely undermining the person you are posting this about. Instead of trying to uplift the community statements like this bring it down, that post could seriously hurt that girl how dare you diminish what other people go through. Yes it's different from what you experience but it is still part of the same kind of hate. And you are just promoting it, I have read your post a few times, I even took some time to cool off after I read it (hence why this is so late) I showed both your post and the one you are talking about to other people and they all feel the same as I do.
For someone who is trying to call out and put a stop to racism in the community this post is very discouraging, and seems to be doing exactly what you are intending to stop.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Drucilla she literally gave an explanation below after that statement.

[drucilla]

Seaglass siren I agree with you on that point, it doesn't make sense why someone would be racist to one culture and still try to take aspects from it. I honestly think that is :headwall::headwall::headwall::headwall::headwall: :headwall::headwall::headwall::headwall::headwall: :headwall:I can't even understand the meaning behind why they would do that. It just makes no sense to take something from a culture you hate. Unless there is malicious intent behind those actions, which to be honest would not surprise me now a days.

[drucilla]

The explanation doesn't make sense to me and that statement she made is offensive, not just to me.
And I was commenting on that specific statement.

[SeaGlass Siren]

I don't think they HATE the culture but I think it's that everyone is so desensitized to taking certain aspects of that culture that they like without researching. (I was guilty of this before for example when anime first got super popular. Despite not being japanese i would buy and wear everything "Japanese styled") it's normally not something the average person would think about. But that's why we have people like Eric and Momo talking about it.

[SeaGlass Siren]

It makes perfect sense to me :/ definitely have a read through the threads. A lot of the points and some of your main concerns were addressed already. Momos statement wasn't racist.

[Echidna]

ok, I didn't want to say a word in here (because posting in threads where I have the threadstarter on ignore is a bad habit I'm trying to get away from), but:


Momos statement wasn't racist.

you might not think it racist, but many will disagree.

Constantly telling people they can't do something or wear something because they are not the right colour to do so, or in this case, going a step farther saying even if you are (partly) of that ethnicity you still cannot because you don't look like the right colour to do it, is racist, and nothing else.

It's the very same sentiment the "anti-racists" claim to fight against, but they just reverse it and it's the same in the end.
This isn't even about appropriation or somesuch anymore.

One might think there are worse problems nowadays than this superficial bitching (like, people dying left and right everywhere), than sowing discord because of friggin' skin colour.

[Mermaid Kelda]

Ok no

People are literally dying left right and centre
because of skin colour

So maybe we white people can deal with not wearing a fucking hair style without whining about it while black people are slaughtered in the streets

[AniaR]

Ok no

People are literally dying left right and centre
because of skin colour

So maybe we white people can deal with not wearing a fucking hair style without whining about it while black people are slaughtered in the streets


http://i.imgur.com/dhMeAzK.gif?noredirect

[Mermaid Momo]

Exactly kelda! And like i said i give absolutely no fucks in the workd anymore about white tears so once i get my laptop again (probably tonight) i will be tearing into BOTH of those responses. Right now i will let you know where you both went wrong
1)tone policing. Aka trying to tell a person of color what they should and shouldn't be angry about

2) crying white tears because i told you you couldn't wear cornrows and cultural artifacts from cultures you don't belong to (and i swear to god if i get "I'm 1/20th " x "ethnicity I WILL raise some hell)

We're out here dying because of our skin color,because we choose to wear what are a part of our culture and that gets us labeled as thugs or ghetto and you're over here mad you can't wear a bindi or dreads from a group of people you probably know nothing about,don't belong to and probably get shit for wearing what is THEIR culture.

Trust me i will be back.

sent from my shellphone using tapatalk

[AniaR]

http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/132327/4793103-ronswansongiddy.gif

[AniaR]

p.s. Momo, great Logo!

[Mermaid Momo]

Okay now I'm back
https://media.giphy.com/media/ED9Q2SCsowywU/giphy.gif

Get ready for this wall - o - text.


p.s. Momo, great Logo!
Thank you Raina! I hope to get it on some shirts for Paul to wear at gigs once I pass my drivers test and can do some gigs and maybe for a tail bag if I ever get around to buying or making one (I have my eyes on the one that was just released, I can't remember the company but it's a floral pattern one and can fit the largest Merbella flukes so hopefully it'll fit my current tail and any future ones)

And on topic:

I find this statement extremely racist and completely undermining the person you are posting this about
First off, telling someone they have privilege IS NOT racist and the fact that you think that someone realizing the privilege they hold is racist shows how little you actually understand about racism and privilege. Would you like to know what racism is? Racism is the when the system and the society is set up so you are on the bottom based solely on your race. Racism is when because of your race you loose out on opportunities other races have or are given freely. Racism is being victimized no matter where you go because people will ALWAYS view you a certain way because of your race, and usually not a good way. Racism is having to fight your whole life and be 3x better than the white people to get HALF of what they do solely because your skin color holds you back. THAT is racism. Racism is NOT: getting your feelings hurt, facing prejudice, or being told you have privilege whether it is white, white passing or light skin privilege.

Because I understand racism and race relations, I have the gall to actually realize that yes, I do have some kind of light skinned privilege because I am lighter skinned, and that I will be treated better than someone darker, I will be thought of as more human, that I am not as "ghetto" or "bad" as someone darker than me, and instead of me trying to make it about me and how little ol light skin me has problems too, instead I listen because that is how you should react when you have privilege against a group, my case being I have more privilege than a dark skin black person, we may be the same race but I have A LOT more privilege when it comes to how I am perceived because of my light skin.


Instead of trying to uplift the community statements like this bring it down
Actually I wasn't uplifting the community, I was calling it out, it's very different. I was however giving a voice to the mers of color and some of them have said that the video was very uplifting to them.


that post could seriously hurt that girl how dare you diminish what otherpeople go through. Yes it's different from what you experience but it is still part of the same kind of hate.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kVNACPg_pAs/UOSbFVTZ05I/AAAAAAAAEKk/M-sd6fx9r0Y/s1600/prince.jpg
Again, telling someone they have privilege is not hate.


And you are just promoting it, I have read your post a few times, I even took some time to cool off after I read it (hence why this is so late) I showed both your post and the one you are talking about to other people and they all feel the same as I do.
For someone who is trying to call out and put a stop to racism in the community this post is very discouraging, and seems to be doing exactly what you are intending to stop.

So is it discouraging because I called out the bullshit and these people were butthurt, or maybe the hit dog was hollering?
https://media.giphy.com/media/3o8doOD7gsXvDAmQpO/giphy.gif

And because I'm nice I'll even post links to articles explaining white passing and light skin privilege
Here is an example of how you should use light skinned privilege, this is Zendaya, half black half white actress, admitting that she has light skin privilege (http://mtonews.com/biracial-actress-zendaya-claims-lite-skinned-privilege-real-says-benefits-daily/)

Here is an article from a white passing person of color, who talks about how frustrating it was at first for people to dismiss her heritage but realized later on that she still benefits from privilege and has it better than those who present as her ethnicity/race. (http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/05/non-white-passing-well/)

Here's a quote from the article

Many of my peers were exhausted. It was clear that this was a battle, in defense of their humanity and worth, that they had been waging their whole lives. Of course, they were fearless and strong nonetheless, but I could see that theirs was an experience I simply could not know.

I pass for white, easily.


And regardless of how I was raised or how I see myself, that has made a difference. When I went to get enrolled in my new elementary school, I was told by the older woman leaning over her desk to make eye-contact with me that I was going to be put on A-track “with all the other smart kids.”


She didn’t know me. My mom didn’t speak English, and I certainly didn’t say a word to her. There were few white kids at my school, and they were all on A-track.


White privilege encompasses many things that I do not and cannot benefit from, but I do benefit from a lot and it’s very important that I recognize it.


To name just a few of those benefits: the quality of my English is never going to be commented on in a first encounter, I see people who at least look kind of like me represented in the media all the time, and I will probably never have to worry about being followed for “suspicious behavior” in a convenience store.


I can’t claim to know what it’s like to be immediately cast as the other, as threatening and undeserving.


Beyond where the color of my skin places me within US racist/colorist society, I also need to be cognizant of what of my Mexican herencia I present, both as a white presenting person in the United States and a light-skinned person in Mexico.


The Spanish word herencia means both heritage in the sense of where we come from and inheritance in the sense of what is passed down. So while it is true that my Mamá Nina was a mujer indígena, it is also true that she was kidnapped by my mestizo great-uncles to marry my Papá Nel.


Her cultural experience has been erased in my family’s history such so that no one knows anything about the life she led before she was taken. There is an inherent whitening that comes with mestizaje, and with whitening, erasure.

And here's an article on colorism, this article focuses on colorism (http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/02/light-skinned-privilege/)

And yeah, my most is harsh, it's blunt, and it's pure rage but that seems to be all you understand because I've spelled this out before in this thread AND other threads.

Now for the second post that isn't even low key disrespectful.
you might not think it racist, but many will disagree.


Constantly telling people they can't do something or wear something because they are not the right colour to do so, or in this case, going a step farther saying even if you are (partly) of that ethnicity you still cannot because you don't look like the right colour to do it, is racist, and nothing else.[/QUOTEe]
Nope, try again, checking you is not racism, it's telling someone to get their grubby hands out of the cookie jar that doesn't belong to them.

[Quote]It's the very same sentiment the "anti-racists" claim to fight against, but they just reverse it and it's the same in the end.
This isn't even about appropriation or somesuch anymore.
You're right, it isn't about appropriation, if you watched the video it was also about racism in the community. Also reverse racism Isn't a thing. (http://www.dailydot.com/via/reverse-racism-doesnt-exist/)
but if you cared you would have researched this yourself and found that out.
http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/783/443/d1b.gif


One might think there are worse problems nowadays than this superficial bitching (like, people dying left and right everywhere), than sowing discord because of friggin' skin colour
Superficial? Really? So people of color and our culture is superficial? I know a certain mer who seems to think that asian culture isn't superficial since she tends to correct asians on their own color. #butthatsnoneofmybusiness
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/say_wha.gif

And you must live under a rock, because if you haven't realized people are dying all over because of "friggin skin color"
Black and brown blood is flowing down the streets like fucking bountiful rivers and you have the audacity to say that color is superficial bitching? That mers of color calling you on your shit is superficial? That the fact the our cultures are being turned into costumes and cheap imitations while we're out here trying to make it with just the color on our backs but we can't because of prejudices against us and our culture on us is superficial?
https://media.giphy.com/media/uA7iGzhqHGVtS/giphy.gifhttp://www.thejanedough.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/tumblr_m0sloie0EQ1qlvwnco1_400.gif

Here's a tip: Don't you EVER come at me again with that. don't you EVER tell me that my people and my culture are superficial. EVER.


And even though I just posted all the information you needed AND there are literally Tons of information online I already expect this reaction
http://www.oxygen.com/sites/nbcuoxygen/files/styles/gallery-overview/public/field_media_items/2015/07/2_0.gif?itok=Fvbjz92q

https://m.popkey.co/ef4d84/b0b4q_s-200x150.gif

Also, shout out to the mers out there who are actually listening and doing their own research, and thanks to the mers who were already doing this and making it a point to include mers of color in your spaces. You all are the true MVP and I really appreciate what you all do to make the community welcoming to all , including us mers of color.
http://66.media.tumblr.com/8af2faec34e234ed2c552c68f3cbaede/tumblr_mwngw3vIrO1sljg1oo1_r2_400.gif

[drucilla]

I don't believe telling someone they have privilege is racist. And yes I do realize that some people have privilege. People in the United States and other First and Second world countries have privilege. For instance whining about if this person should participate in THEIR own culture because they are "white skinned" while people in Third world countries worry about whether they will be able to feed their children that night, is privilege.
"Would you like to know what racism is? Racism is the when the system and the society is set up so you are on the bottom based solely on your race. Racism is when because of your race you loose out on opportunities other races have or are given freely. Racism is being victimized no matter where you go because people will ALWAYS view you a certain way because of your race, and usually not a good way. Racism is having to fight your whole life and be 3x better than the white people to get HALF of what they do solely because your skin color holds you back. THAT is racism. Racism is NOT: getting your feelings hurt, facing prejudice, or being told you have privilege whether it is white, white passing or light skin privilege."
How would you like to know what racism really is? Racism is 1. abeliefordoctrinethatinherentdifferencesamongtheva rioushumanracialgroupsdetermineculturalorindividua lachievement,usuallyinvolvingtheideathatone'sownra ceissuperiorandhastherighttodominateothersorthatap articularracialgroupisinferiortotheothers.
2. apolicy,systemofgovernment,etc.,baseduponorfosteri ngsuchadoctrine;discrimination.
3. hatredorintoleranceofanotherraceorotherraces. (Which is what your post shows by the way)
Or do you want a personal definition?
Okay, racism is when you get bullied everyday because of your race or because you don't look 100% your race. It's when you can't fit in anywhere on the spectrum because people of both races tell you, you're nothing because you don't look 100% like either. It's when groups of people attack you every day after school with weapons because your name doesn't match your skin color. It's being afraid your children will have to go through the same things you did or worse because their skin color doesn't match their ethnicity.
Its being dehumanized and told you don't matter because of your race or skin color. It's being told you have to eat outside with the dog and not at the "family table" because of your skin color, it's being told you can't sit on the furniture because of your skin color. It's being forced to clean the whole house on your hands and knees while the children of a different race get to gout outside and play everyday. It's being locked in your room with bars on the Windows because the "family" doesn't want to see your "white" face. It's being told you are ugly because of your race and you will amount to nothing.
Its being dragged into a church full of one race and being glared at because you don't belong and having people talk about you because you don't belong their. It's being told that everything that happened means nothing and doesn't count because of your race. All the name calling all the abuse all of the beatings it doesn't matter because you look white so it's your fault for looking that way.
THAT IS RACISM. That is only some of my experience with racism. So don't you tell me that I know nothing of racism.

[Mermaid Momo]

Basically what you said:
http://www.oxygen.com/sites/nbcuoxygen/files/styles/gallery-overview/public/field_media_items/2015/07/2_0.gif?itok=Fvbjz92q

[Mermaid Momo]

And you still didn't learn the difference between racism and prejudice. STILL.

[drucilla]

Yea just what I thought you would say. *eyeroll*
It doesn't matter because it wasn't you or someone you knew. Just showing off your intolerance for other races and people's experiences.

[drucilla]

Prejudice against someone for their race is racism! How do you not understand that?

[Starfrit]

Going to be civil and avoid responding to the blatant ignorant trolls in here (why do we still humor Echidna in these discussions, again...?), but I just wanted to come in here after reading Momo's amazing post and say:

https://media.giphy.com/media/MUeQeEQaDCjE4/giphy.gif

[Madison MerFaerie]

Prejudice against someone for their race is racism! How do you not understand that?

I haven't posted on MerNetwork in forever. Came back from the dead literally to just say NOPE to this specific post right here.

NOPE.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Sigh..... Why do I even bother.

[Mermaid Momo]

The biggest thing I honestly can't understand is how someone ALWAYS has to come onto a post specifically talking about race and somehow make it about them, like they get uncomfortable because the topic isn't focusing on them and the "racism" they faced (btw, just clicking on ONE of the links above would explain to you the difference between racism and prejudice, but because you won't click on it here's the break down, which I also stated above but fell on deaf ears: racism is systematic and INGRAINED IN SOCIETY. Prejudice is someone being mean to you. )

Literally the only thing you did Drucilla was attempt to turn a subject about mers of color and the theft of cultures into a subject about you and why you have it worst than mers of color. basically you did this:
http://i.imgur.com/4sryFf5.png

Like, okay, people were mean to you because you were white in a community that wasn't, but that is not racism and you won't ever grasp racism until you accept that. You can go ANYWHERE else and not experience ANYTHING close to racism. If you read the first sentence in the quote from the article up above you would have noticed this line:

but I could see that theirs was an experience I simply could not know.

I pass for white, easily. Which you seem to also chosen to ignore because you wanted to start a "I'm more oppressed than you" war (Which by the way, I'm not even going to humor because it is very clear that you have no desire to even learn because you have avoided every single piece of literature I have posted to try and help you)

[SeaGlass Siren]

Fuck this shit. I'll read this whole thread after my 2 year anniversary trip is over.

[Mermaid Momo]

Fuck this shit. I'll read this whole thread after my 2 year anniversary trip is over.
Don't stress yourself out, It honestly isn't even worth it, I'm not even sure why I keep trying tbh. Enjoy your trip away from all the mer-drama!

[AniaR]

Momo

http://ct.weirdnutdaily.com/ol/wn/sw/i56/5/9/17/wnd_1e51c64eedcce4829d304e55bfdab09b.jpg


Pretty much impossible to teach people who are unwilling to learn

[Mermaid Whisper]

Delusions are not equal to being an ass.

Just so you know.

[Merman Arion]

http://ct.weirdnutdaily.com/ol/wn/sw/i56/5/9/17/wnd_1e51c64eedcce4829d304e55bfdab09b.jpg


Pretty much impossible to teach people who are unwilling to learn

http://i.giphy.com/13c2YVh83qgJRS.gifhttp://www.reactiongifs.com/r/crwdc.gif


Yea just what I thought you would say. *eyeroll*
It doesn't matter because it wasn't you or someone you knew. Just showing off your intolerance for other races and people's experiences.


Prejudice against someone for their race is racism! How do you not understand that?

http://cdn29.elitedaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/emma-stone-gifs-judging-summerfantasies3-2.gif

http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/3838/4529/original.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/12d4iFZ4DaIvQc/giphy.gif

[Spindrift]

Cultural Appropriation is a huge issue, I completely agree. And I completely agree that they shouldn't have cast a white person to play a black goddess. It's Old Hollywood all over again.

What I am about to say is in no way lessening the fact that these decisions were wrong and should never have been made. I just feel there are some issues with calling certain situations out as cultural appropriation should be done so very carefully, which I know from personal experiences, so please, hear me out here:

Where the line falls fuzzy for me is when you actually, genuinely come from a cultural background that is anything but what you look. Personally, my great Grandmother was, what people here know as, a half cast. She was half Indigenous Australian, half European Australian. Personally, I am as white as they get. My skin is pale. I burn easy, I don't tan, my hair is naturally blonde, and I have blue eyes. I use the palest of any make up brand you can find, because that's the colour I am. So many times I have been called out for cultural appropriation of Indigenous Australians, but it is in my blood. Just because I am freaking pale (seriously, I almost glow in the dark), should I not respect my cultural heritage in case people think it is cultural appropriation? Indigenous Australian hair styles included dreadlocks, but if I do that, I am called appropriator. If I paint my face in traditional ways, I am called appropriator. If I use traditional smoke ceremonies, I am called appropriator. But I am of that culture.
My great grandfather was Irish, and my grandfather was too, but I don't have the accent because my mum didn't, so should I stop enjoying my family's history and showing my respect to them with Celtic knots and symbols, even though I was raised with a Grandfather that took pride in his family history and identity? Should I not have learned Irish Dancing, worn traditional dance dresses, and shared it with the world, simply because I am not labelled as Irish because of where I was born?

I was raised with pride in my heritage, and I was raised with acceptance of other cultures, purely because I am from so many. If I share something from any of my cultures with someone, and they go away with an understanding and can use it in their every day life to help them get through this world, I don't mind. Again, when things are done ignorantly like they were with Hannah in this case, I think it is all sorts of wrong. Use another name. Use a different mer icon. They all could have applied in this situation. Pick any of the hundreds of white mermaid legends to go with. Better yet, use a black mer to portray a black goddess! Give someone else a go at the spotlight for a damn minute.

All I want anyone who has read this to take from what I have written is that not everyone you think is culturally appropriating, actually is. You don't know their family history, you don't know their identity. Please just be kind and ask nicely before you scream appropriation at them. It has happened to me, and it is hurtful. I am an open book. If you want to ask, just ask. Most people would want the same before they are called ignorant.


This is the only relevant response I have to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf9QBnPK6Yg

If you look white, you still have the privileges of being/looking white, whether you are of another culture or not. Just like white people who claim they are a minority because they are 16% Cherokee.

[SeaGlass Siren]

You try because you give a shit about inclusion. And you damn well give so many shits about it because black people have been fighting for rights for the longest time and will always fight for people who deserve rights too.


Echidna i see your response. When I get back from vacation I swear I'm going to respond to that insensitive comment as calmly as I fucking cannnnnnn

[MermaidCelesteFL]

Oh Hashem, I came into this convo so late.

So, my two cents: Because I am physically white, I don't know anything about the struggles of being any other race. I want to know all I can about how to be respectful towards others, but I will never truly understand their struggle.

In saying that: Rusalka said that tribal tattoos are considered cultural appropriation.


Tribal: It's a phrase that makes me want to cringe. It happened back that a certain fandom created "Tribalstuck." the outcry was great. It falls into the warpaint, head dress, marking type of things. If people are invited into it and to take a part of it, then there's a difference, but using "Tribal" as some weird marked aesthetic to just look "cool." It has a cultural meaning that very few are invited into.


I think that in many cases, this is true. I might even be guilty of this. The tribal tattoo on my tail has no actual cultural significance to me, because I HONESTLY DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT MY ANCESTRAL BACKGROUND. But for posterity's sake, I might as well put yellow Jewish stars on my tail, because that's how my family was identified from other "races". Or should I be tattooing numbers on my tail instead?

Next tail design- I'm going to have tattoos of white bread all over my tail. At least that's not offensive.


<insert shade here>

[AniaR]

Sometimes we just learn we made a mistake after the fact, and try to learn from it and not do it again. Like when I wore Bindis

[merwandering]

It's sad to see this conversation digress this way:( I know how deeply personal this is, and how horrific the consequences of the misunderstandings in society, that lead to fear, that lead to anger, that lead to hate, that lead to deaths.
Or what is most often the case, simply devalued.
The only thing is that when the discussion gets so charged, people stop listening. Learning stops. Change stops. And while I generally tend to recoil from conversations that get this way, not this kind. This is probably one of the most important conversations on this forum or in this nation right now.
Really- half of this argument is about semantics.
Drucilla- are you hearing the difference in what you are talking about and the definition of racism? I want to step in and help, because the back and forth is so unnecessary. It's a definition thing. What they are talking about in terms of racism can't be confined to what's going on in a household, or in a specific school, etc. It's a massive, systematic, institutionalized system that holds a race in power generally speaking. What you suffered is horrible and traumatic and ugly and tragic abuse, and I am so, so sorry that happened to you. I can completely see why that would leave you very emotionally raw in this kind of conversation. I hope that as human beings we can look at each others suffering and unite against the hate that causes that kind of pain, instead of people who are hurting turning against each other.
The reason they are saying that isn't racism is that while it is racially driven maltreatment, racism is what grooms an entire nation of people, like a whole constant brainwashing, a media promoting a Eurocentric beauty standard, an entire political system, people hiring and firing and arresting people, to believe is a hierarchy of worth. And even though abuse destroys a part of you at your core, the thing they are talking about here is that, if you walk down the street, while you carry that pain, the rest of the world sees you a certain way, and treats you accordingly.
So the conversation at hand has GOT to focus on the things contributing to that piece. What is happening in this world and in the mermaid community that are perpetuating that system, and how we can actively dismantle it
So- I am about to do what everyone is going to want to punch me in the face for, and...start a dreads thread.
But it is because I think locks are their own conversation, and also because I think this thread needs to be relieved of that focus.
Please send my hate mail to my personal messages, and refrain from it in comments lol

[MermaidCelesteFL]

With all due respect, that is a $3,400 *mistake* that nobody told me I was making.

Secondly, there is decent difference between Native American Tribal and Celtic Tribal. Hell if I know if I'm either or nothing. My grandparents on both sides have been dead for a while, and the Nazis did a good job destroying all family records (at least on my mom's side). My dad's family disowned my family when I was little, so all I know is where my parents were born, where my mom's parents were born, and where I was born. That's it.

Oppression comes in many different forms, and happens to TONS of different people of all shapes, sizes, colors, ethnicities, and yes, even religions. One person's pain can't really be compared to another's. It's not fair. None of this is.

What we can agree on is this: Mers of color, mermen of all shapes and size, mers of varying cultures and religions, and mers of varying body types need to be represented in a respectful, tasteful manner.

There is something special in everyone that deserves to be seen. No two mers are exactly the same, and from the public's standpoint, there seems to be an overwhelming amount of popularity amongst skinny, white, blonde merfolk- and nothing else. The world needs to know that there is so much diversity out there that needs to be seen, not just what the media thinks the general public wants.

[Theta]

Hey. Hi.

For any other white people in the room who are just kind of following along and watching (and hopefully learning) from all this, a good documentary that was very interesting and eye opening I found is Dark Girls.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Girls

It was on Netflix for a while (might still be) and is very good. It unpacks a lot of the issues black women face today and historically.

[Spindrift]

It's sad to see this conversation digress this way:( I know how deeply personal this is, and how horrific the consequences of the misunderstandings in society, that lead to fear, that lead to anger, that lead to hate, that lead to deaths.
Or what is most often the case, simply devalued.
The only thing is that when the discussion gets so charged, people stop listening. Learning stops. Change stops. And while I generally tend to recoil from conversations that get this way, not this kind. This is probably one of the most important conversations on this forum or in this nation right now.
Really- half of this argument is about semantics.
Drucilla- are you hearing the difference in what you are talking about and the definition of racism? I want to step in and help, because the back and forth is so unnecessary. It's a definition thing. What they are talking about in terms of racism can't be confined to what's going on in a household, or in a specific school, etc. It's a massive, systematic, institutionalized system that holds a race in power generally speaking. What you suffered is horrible and traumatic and ugly and tragic abuse, and I am so, so sorry that happened to you. I can completely see why that would leave you very emotionally raw in this kind of conversation. I hope that as human beings we can look at each others suffering and unite against the hate that causes that kind of pain, instead of people who are hurting turning against each other.
The reason they are saying that isn't racism is that while it is racially driven maltreatment, racism is what grooms an entire nation of people, like a whole constant brainwashing, a media promoting a Eurocentric beauty standard, an entire political system, people hiring and firing and arresting people, to believe is a hierarchy of worth. And even though abuse destroys a part of you at your core, the thing they are talking about here is that, if you walk down the street, while you carry that pain, the rest of the world sees you a certain way, and treats you accordingly.
So the conversation at hand has GOT to focus on the things contributing to that piece. What is happening in this world and in the mermaid community that are perpetuating that system, and how we can actively dismantle it
So- I am about to do what everyone is going to want to punch me in the face for, and...start a dreads thread.
But it is because I think locks are their own conversation, and also because I think this thread needs to be relieved of that focus.
Please send my hate mail to my personal messages, and refrain from it in comments lol

This this this

[Spindrift]

With all due respect, that is a $3,400 *mistake* that nobody told me I was making.

Secondly, there is decent difference between Native American Tribal and Celtic Tribal. Hell if I know if I'm either or nothing. My grandparents on both sides have been dead for a while, and the Nazis did a good job destroying all family records (at least on my mom's side). My dad's family disowned my family when I was little, so all I know is where my parents were born, where my mom's parents were born, and where I was born. That's it.

Oppression comes in many different forms, and happens to TONS of different people of all shapes, sizes, colors, ethnicities, and yes, even religions. One person's pain can't really be compared to another's. It's not fair. None of this is.

What we can agree on is this: Mers of color, mermen of all shapes and size, mers of varying cultures and religions, and mers of varying body types need to be represented in a respectful, tasteful manner.

There is something special in everyone that deserves to be seen. No two mers are exactly the same, and from the public's standpoint, there seems to be an overwhelming amount of popularity amongst skinny, white, blonde merfolk- and nothing else. The world needs to know that there is so much diversity out there that needs to be seen, not just what the media thinks the general public wants.

I come from Hawaii where a lot of people (white) get Polynesian/tribal tattoos without understanding that there are stories ingrained in real tattoos and designs. I am also Asian. I see people with Chinese symbols as tattoos all the time. They have always been on white people. I saw someone with a tattoo who told me it meant "harmony" and it was literally the grammatical word for "and". I felt embarrassed for her. Honestly, if I had known about your design before it was made and it was up for discussion, I would have said something. But I don't know why you wanted it - maybe the symbols had some personal meaning to you. Maybe a partner had that as their tattoo. And that's okay, to me. And if that was the case I'd probably be aware that I'd have to talk about it with everyone that asks. I mean, if I were going to drop that much money on a tail I would really think hard about the design and why every bit of it was special to me (but that's just me). I think it's important to be aware of where you come from, but if you don't, that's also okay. Your lineage doesn't need to be present for you to function everyday in society. But it's good to be aware that it does for a lot of other people. You could look into your family history if you wanted. You could get tested and connected with family all over the world, if it's that important to you.

In any case, this topic itself was about Hannah accepting a role in which she plays a race that is not her own. To her, this comes across as another ladder rung for her career - she'll accept any role that is big enough/pays well enough/makes her look impressive - and so would anyone else. She doesn't understand how a young Asian girl might watch her work and wonder why a white blonde lady is pretending she belongs in her heritage and that could be damaging. When I was in preschool we would have story time and I remember when the teacher read a book about mothers - every single mother in that book was white and was stay at home and I was so confused. My mother is not white. She is also not a stay at home mother. I remember questioning myself at 3 if the lady I would see later in the day was actually a real mom. That's messed up, don't you think?

Self vs Society
Gain vs Perception

I'm worried this post will come across as a ramble. I have a lot of thoughts and it's not fully sorted through yet.

[SeaGlass Siren]

^ you're good. I understood everything.

[MermaidCelesteFL]

There was a reason for me putting the tribal symbol on my tail, other than it looking cool: in my religion/culture, I can't get tattoos. I wanted a symbol to embody strength and a warrior spirit, more than just my original blue tang tail design. I wanted to show little girls that they don't have to adhere to "magical princess" stereotypes, and some mermaids could be amazingly bada$$ too. As I mentioned earlier, I know next to nothing about my lineage, so I borrowed a Celtic tribal design to represent my strength. I'm sure there are other ways to do this as well, but I felt that it was something that didn't need much explanation to kids for them to get the point.

Under the same vein as the tribal tattoo and tattoos in other languages, I used to see a lot of Hebrew tattoos on people when I was a lifeguard. Most (if not all) of the people I talked to did not know the language. When I asked them what they thought their tattoo said, some were relatively close to the actual meaning of the word or phrases, but some were really, really far off.

"Oh, a tattoo in Hebrew! What does yours say?"
"G-d lives within me."
(It actually says "Jacob")

[AniaR]

In any case, this topic itself was about Hannah accepting a role in which she plays a race that is not her own. To her, this comes across as another ladder rung for her career - she'll accept any role that is big enough/pays well enough/makes her look impressive - and so would anyone else. She doesn't understand how a young Asian girl might watch her work and wonder why a white blonde lady is pretending she belongs in her heritage and that could be damaging. When I was in preschool we would have story time and I remember when the teacher read a book about mothers - every single mother in that book was white and was stay at home and I was so confused. My mother is not white. She is also not a stay at home mother. I remember questioning myself at 3 if the lady I would see later in the day was actually a real mom. That's messed up, don't you think?

well said! also, sad :(


I have an embaressing story to share when I was a kid. My mom never took me out of the house when I was young (I was super sick) I did not see a non-white person until I was 4. My first visit to the grocery store was a man who recently imigrated from Morocco and he was black as night and I'd NEVER seen anything like that in real life. I started crying and asking my mom what was wrong with the man and I am sure my mother was MORTIFIED at the time. God love this man, he took it all in stride, and came over and introduced himself and actually became a life long family friend because I was an ignorant 4 year old.

How does a kid get to 4 without understanding black people are real? Pretty much no representation in the TV/books I was consuming as a toddler.

Working as an ECE I am so glad to see how much that has changed. Daycares here strive to have dolls in many colours, books and videos representing all people, and I'd say that whites in many of the centres where I worked were either 50/50 or 25% so they were around a lot of non white friends. I see these kids have no idea what racism is because it's just their normal friend. Where I live racism awareness programs are huge in schools to so when they get to school they're taught how to stand up for each other rights. Especially the last school where I worked.

I am glad so many things have improved since I was a kid but we sure as hell have a long way to go.

[Spindrift]

There was a reason for me putting the tribal symbol on my tail, other than it looking cool: in my religion/culture, I can't get tattoos. I wanted a symbol to embody strength and a warrior spirit, more than just my original blue tang tail design. I wanted to show little girls that they don't have to adhere to "magical princess" stereotypes, and some mermaids could be amazingly bada$$ too. As I mentioned earlier, I know next to nothing about my lineage, so I borrowed a Celtic tribal design to represent my strength. I'm sure there are other ways to do this as well, but I felt that it was something that didn't need much explanation to kids for them to get the point.

Under the same vein as the tribal tattoo and tattoos in other languages, I used to see a lot of Hebrew tattoos on people when I was a lifeguard. Most (if not all) of the people I talked to did not know the language. When I asked them what they thought their tattoo said, some were relatively close to the actual meaning of the word or phrases, but some were really, really far off.

"Oh, a tattoo in Hebrew! What does yours say?"
"G-d lives within me."
(It actually says "Jacob")

Hahaha that's cringeworthy! Yeah, but see you used a symbol that had a strong personal meaning to you. In my book, that's okay. I just think that to go down that path you'll have to, from time to time, deal with questions about it. Hannah doesn't have that connection. This isn't a personal journey to her. It's just a gig. It's meaningless except for the context of resume building. Does that make sense?

[Spindrift]

well said! also, sad :(


I have an embaressing story to share when I was a kid. My mom never took me out of the house when I was young (I was super sick) I did not see a non-white person until I was 4. My first visit to the grocery store was a man who recently imigrated from Morocco and he was black as night and I'd NEVER seen anything like that in real life. I started crying and asking my mom what was wrong with the man and I am sure my mother was MORTIFIED at the time. God love this man, he took it all in stride, and came over and introduced himself and actually became a life long family friend because I was an ignorant 4 year old.

How does a kid get to 4 without understanding black people are real? Pretty much no representation in the TV/books I was consuming as a toddler.

Working as an ECE I am so glad to see how much that has changed. Daycares here strive to have dolls in many colours, books and videos representing all people, and I'd say that whites in many of the centres where I worked were either 50/50 or 25% so they were around a lot of non white friends. I see these kids have no idea what racism is because it's just their normal friend. Where I live racism awareness programs are huge in schools to so when they get to school they're taught how to stand up for each other rights. Especially the last school where I worked.

I am glad so many things have improved since I was a kid but we sure as hell have a long way to go. [/COLOR]

OMG I'm not sure whether I should laugh or cry at that story lol. But yeah, I feel really thankful that I get to work on a mermaid team that does have diversity (I mean, there's only two of us that aren't blondes, but still). I get the least amount of gig requests in my opinion, although I DO NOT have the actual numbers to back that up so don't take that as fact. In my perception the requests are either for Hawaiian mermaid because we are in Hawaii, or blonde because that is what most people think of when they think mermaids (besides Ariel).

[merwandering]

yup, I told my preschool teacher that my mother didn't like brown people and that when my brown friend came to our house to play my mom always left.
(my babysitter was black.)
preschool social skills ftw.

[MermaidBonnie]

Very interesting topic. Before I was a mermaid I was an opera singer. Puccini's Turandot has been played by non Chinese women for about a century now. Right now in Chicago Theyre performing this opera. It's set in China. This was one of my first paying opera gigs when I was a teen and I was dressed Chinese (and sang in Italian). They didn't hire us based on race, they hired the singers based on talent and skill. My point is that this happens in performance not just in mermaid situations. My sister in law is a ballerina and it happens there also (ie The Nutcracker). I admire Hannah's skill and talent. The only mermaid I think that is at that level is Melissa when it comes to breath hold and Grace underwater. Hannah was approached by her employers who wanted to hire a mermaid with this talent and skill yet I see nothing racist about it. She has to make a living right? I get hired mostly as a blonde and I'm a quarter Cherokee. I have dark features and high cheekbones yet no one has called me racist for being blonde, something that is not in my family? I see women of different races dressing up as Ariel or Belle and I think it's fine. I'm just adding food for thought and not trying to be offensive at all.

[MermaidBonnie]

Here's an idea! If you are deeply troubled by Hannah being hired this way and you are black or African American (depending on which label you want to use as I have friends who use one or the other) then send in your audition video to the employer. Maybe they initially looked for someone who physically matched the description who also had the talent but could not find someone who could match Hannah in skill and talent? Maybe you are the one who can. It can't hurt, right?

[Thalassa]

I'm probably going to get a lot of hate here, but I've been so "educated" about this stuff that...honestly, it comes off to me now as "everything white people do is wrong, you're a bad person because you're privileged and white and you couldn't possibly try to understand because you're white so don't ever try to break out of the white stereotypes." And I'm sick and tired of being afraid to do anything.

I gather this is about Hannah playing a role that is a cultural icon not of her own race.

Why is this okay when it's a person of color (is that the politically correct term now)? Auditions are "colorblind" all the time! I've seen Celtic gods played by colored people, traditionally colored characters played by people who are Hispanic or Asian...and yet when it's a "white" girl playing the role it's suddenly horrible.

Take the Disney Frozen show. They cast, as hugely popular SISTERS from a European culture who have been previously established in their race, a woman of color and a white woman. Anyone who raised negative opinions was immediately met with hate and, "The auditions were colorblind. It's standard in the industry, and you're just racist saying that Elsa shouldn't be black." A popular character from a popular company. Yet it was not only okay, but applauded.

I have seen my religion, the most important thing to me IN MY LIFE turned into not only a character but a lewd, disgusting show that not only doesn't understand it but mocks it. But if anyone says that they are supposedly taking it too seriously, they don't understand, they should be flattered that it generates more interest in their culture.

I'm tired of the double standard. I'm sorry I'm white and can't possibly understand. I'm sorry I'm Polish American, but I won't stick to wearing just traditional Polish dress and eating bigos, I'm sorry I instead strive to understand and live in a GLOBAL culture instead of focusing on differences no one can change and drawing a line to divide us all. I'm sorry I have band aids that are "my skin color" (They're not, btw), sorry I "don't get followed through Walmart" (I do, btw, because I'm a wanderer with "shifty eyes" even though I've never stolen anything in my life). I'm sorry I might want to play an amazing role, take an amazing gig, or cosplay someone not of my race. I'M SORRY, okay? And because tone is hard to read over the Internet, this is not some sarcastic sorry, but a heartfelt apology because I've learned my whole life that this IS all my fault. This is what my multicultural classes have instilled in me. Nothing but anxiety and self-hate.

I won't be coming back to this thread, because I'm very aware that this will make me unpopular. This is not a popular opinion to hold. And I'm sorry for that, too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[merwandering]

I know this is becoming a large conversation in general, I have seen more so in film than theatre or live performance- I don't know anything about Hannah or the role, and usually wouldn't ever chime in- however, I think it is important that in these conversations we are listening, and her response made me wonder. The piece that concerned me, and that I commented on, was the response not that she was the one with the skill most necessary for the job, nor that it was a project that they wanted her specifically for, but that she most embodied the role (of an African goddess). I definitely think it is an important conversation, and interesting, and there are many aspects, and I do think growing up in different cultures is a valid reason for those cultures, which are a part of you, to be reflected in your life. But while I have never seen any of her work, and I don't know her background, it would take a lot to convince me that she embodies the role of an African goddess more than any woman of African descent. I just see that that thinking as being destructive to the conversation and the patterns. The reality is that while opera and mermaiding are extremely specific, when there are general jobs and the talent is even, jobs are more likely to go to white women than women of color. So if you have a platform, and an important conversations comes up, your response is a piece of something bigger, and makes an impact on the reality system behind it.
However, so crazy- a very interesting point about specific talent, and yes- a time when yellowface is widely used and accepted.

[merwandering]

Thalassa, I think we were typing at the same time, but one point I wanted to bring up in the dreads thread, but is relavent here, is how many people I am friends with or who are in my family WANT to share their culture. My stepmother, who is Indian, bought me saris and stuck bindis on my forehead from a young age, and was always thrilled about sharing dress and customs with myself, my friends, and now my kids. I have very mixed feelings about locks, because for example, my 10 year old white daughter has grown up with her older sister, her one on one aide from school, and a little girl she shared a hospital room with for a few weeks, who are black, braiding all of her hair, telling her she should wear it like that more often, and that she looks beautiful. But then if she walks down the street that way in a few years, people will think she's a jerk. The biggest thing glaring at me about locks though is how much it was not cool for my black daughter to wear braids growing up, but she'd get made fun of after her hair broke off for it being so short, and she'd get made fun of for wearing a weave or clip ins because her hair was fake.....do you know how much easier her childhood would have been if locks were cool???
it infuriates me to see double standards all.the.time. But bindis, for example, have become somewhat separated from their meaning starting in their culture of origin, widely shared, and engrained in fashion, and- that could be a good thing
Random but It actually sooo irritates my older daughter to see things like a Black Elsa because while some people might applaud it- ELSA ISNT BLACK and I'd love to see more black princesses (and more mixed race sisters to be honest) but is it not kind of creepy for Elsa's race to be interchangeable?

[merwandering]

And just realized- again, my disclaimer is that I am just hopping over briefly from the tail making thread, but would want to say that if this thread is unwelcoming to people with different ideas, there is no dialogue, and then what on earth is the point? If intelligent people who care about making the world a better place can't have a productive and respectful conversation about it, then there needs to be a real look at how things are being discussed. The most powerful forces in changing the trajectory of things are understanding and caring. this thread started as how change can be made in the mermaid community. I'd say- act like a community. Treat each other as if you are working out an issue with a friend. Treat each other as though you initially assume that someone who is sharing their perspective is doing so out of wanting to gain and share perspective.

[AniaR]

Here's an idea! If you are deeply troubled by Hannah being hired this way and you are black or African American (depending on which label you want to use as I have friends who use one or the other) then send in your audition video to the employer. Maybe they initially looked for someone who physically matched the description who also had the talent but could not find someone who could match Hannah in skill and talent? Maybe you are the one who can. It can't hurt, right?


They didn't. I employ an award winning internationally known circus performer who has direct access to their casting notices across North America. My Free diving instructor also has access (and he just auditioned for a free diving role actually, fins crossed)

I know mers reached out to Circ as well to express their concerns and none heard back.

I think what she's done is done and can't be undone, I think it's more the excuses and replies she's giving to mers expressing their concern and trying to educate her, that has become the problem and spurned on these videos.

[merwandering]

I have really thought about it and I feel like this conversation is one that I need to step out of.
It makes me sad because I think it is important, but I also think that depending on the tone, and respect for each other, and the realization that no one can speak for a whole community, or their whole race, and that experiences and situations are very different in different places- that can do more harm than good.
It isn't something I want to be a part of, and I hope that it can evolve, or just end, because when we stop valuing the honest point of view of another person, when we shut people down because they have a different perspective or say they don't agree or don't understand, we are no longer the good guys, even if we have good intentions.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Bonnie have you even seen the videos? Or read the comments under the videos? I'm sure you follow Hannah's page so you'll also see that there were a lot of recommendations for mers who were qualified. Older works like operas you can't do anything to change it. Current works however there should be no excuse.

thalassa... I'm just gonna tell you to read over the thread once more.


seriously bye guys. I'm done with this community. Obviously white mers cryin white tears over what they want is so much more important than the feelings of the oppressed group of people right? :/

[Mermaid Whisper]

Bonnie have you even seen the videos? Or read the comments under the videos? I'm sure you follow Hannah's page so you'll also see that there were a lot of recommendations for mers who were qualified. Older works like operas you can't do anything to change it. Current works however there should be no excuse.

thalassa... I'm just gonna tell you to read over the thread once more.


seriously bye guys. I'm done with this community. Obviously white mers cryin white tears over what they want is so much more important than the feelings of the oppressed group of people right? :/

Please don't leave. I really love having you here. You're inspirational, funny, and intelligent, and you're a dang good mermaid. I would seriously miss you.

Everyone needs to step back for a moment and look at the bigger picture. To my fellow white mers, we've had everything go our way for hundreds of years in the US. It's time to let minorities say what they've got to say and teach us all a little something. Don't you think they deserve to be heard and respected after centuries of being silenced? You can't see the forest between the trees. Let's listen to our mers of color and work together instead of dividing ourselves.

I love all you guys. It doesn't matter where you come from or what you look like. You're all important to me and I want to hear what you need to say.

Lay it on me.

[Mermaid Aria]

Please don't leave. I really love having you here. You're inspirational, funny, and intelligent, and you're a dang good mermaid. I would seriously miss you.

Everyone needs to step back for a moment and look at the bigger picture. To my fellow white mers, we've had everything go our way for hundreds of years in the US. It's time to let minorities say what they've got to say and teach us all a little something. Don't you think they deserve to be heard and respected after centuries of being silenced? You can't see the forest between the trees. Let's listen to our mers of color and work together instead of dividing ourselves.

I love all you guys. It doesn't matter where you come from or what you look like. You're all important to me and I want to hear what you need to say.

Lay it on me.
I second this! Very well said! :)

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

[Mermaid Momo]

Tbh I'm secodimg seaglass on this. It's tiresome saying the same things over and over and over again only to be met with people who don't want to listen because their feelings got hurt. There are tons of reference both here in this thread AND online (literally, google is free and available).

And instead of people taking advantage of all these resources they instead choose to whine about their feelings being hurt over some truth tea being spilled but can't spare a few moments to even read over what was written and i am not going to lie;it shows that the community is not open to critiques that would make it a better place for thise who want to enjoy it.

Yes i said i wanted to hear all thoughts in the video but I figured that most of those thoughts would be more than "I'm tired of people blaming white people" (also just fyi you might want to research WHY white people are the focus of nearly everything race related. Hint: it may have something to do with racial genocide and colonization and forced assimilation of everyone not white)

I think i'll stick to the mers of color specific groups from now on. (i'll still lurk here tho in case anyone needs a new butthole)

sent from my shellphone using tapatalk

[Mermaid Momo]

And one more reply: for whoever said that in theatre including ballet they pick the most talented over ballet; i suggest you watch the misty copeland documentary, and read some of the books mentioned in it about ballet and race and follow the page "brown girls do ballet". I'm sure that theatre has something akin to this but me being an ex dancer, ballet is all i really pay attention to

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[merwandering]

Seaglass, when I said- wow, interesting, they are using yellowface there in performance art regularly, it is to answer the question that I literally kept asking- is there anywhere that would make someone think that's ok?? And to say- well, someone in performing arts might have that idea because that's how performing arts works, values, for example, in opera, voice over any other aspect-
does that mean that the final answer is, welp, yellowface is ok after all? No, it means, that's part of the conversation. But I'm sorry if it came across in a way that was offensive.
And to just everyone in general, well, in a community, people do regard one another's feelings. And if you are trying to build community, it is something that matters.
And besides that, I think most of the people on this forum are genuinely good people, and it makes sense to find common ground because this is a fabric of people who are trying to exist together, and perhaps even be a network of allies.
I wear my bleeding heart on my sleeve, and it is broken in a million pieces for my daughter, and for every young woman in her position, and every man and every child because from where I am sitting I can see SO CLEARLY ALL THE TIME what is wrong. And it is horrible.
I have not gone back and forth about locks here, though it is what my hair naturally does AND it would be easier AND it is encouraged by the people in my life who matter to me who are black, because- this conversation, in America, is NOT. ABOUT. ME.
If it is going to make a difference, it can't be.
At the same time- if I were, it would be to say- my experience is different, and I don't want you to be offended when you see me, because I am not trying to take what is yours.
But since it DOES feel like that right now *where I live* (which is really different than other areas, so - seriously that makes a difference- we don't condemn hand gestures or nudity or so many other things in their cultural context by justifying judgement by American standards, and that perspective is just as narrow from a global perspective)
but because there is so. very. much. that HAS been taken, I am respecting that. There are a people who, in the south, in America, have been constantly pillaged and then left disregarded. So, in that vein, I am not going to say, 'wait, can I just have this one more thing?"
But I hope that overall feeling changes, because that's not what it should feel like, because there are a lot of reasons why, using locks as an example, it isn't true.
I see it. I experience it. I cry way too often tears for the lack of basic human value that, in America, no one seems to notice is diminished or altogether withheld all too often for people of color.
But- I also see this.
My family, meaning- grandparents, aunts uncles cousins parents are:
hispanic, Cherokee, black, caucasian (several different European origins) and Indian.
The cultural experiences I have been raised to have as a part of my core and my soul and who I am are diverse, and no I am not going to allow someone else's prejudices or assumptions take away from what is a valid part of who I am just because I am white.But I will try to be sensitive with the way that I embrace them.
And so I hope that especially with the fact that, Hallelujah, cultures are being shared and races are coming together, we can move to a perspective where we don't automatically look at someone with a symbol or hairstyle or dress that doesn't match their skin color and assume they are an ass.
And I recognize that for that to happen, there need to be a hundred other aspects of society in which people ARENT being an ass.
BUT I also believe that- in America (which btw is a tiny corner of the world, and this is an international forum, and it seems like at least some of the issue is coming from that) there is a HUGE problem, and there is a white power and entitlement and privilege that is so engrained everywhere that no, it is also not ok to just let things happen, because there are a million examples of what ARE gross misrepresentations and it is really offensive and not helping us move in a different direction.
So where does that leave us??
I have to advocate for change. I have to. I cannot sit down when it is time to stand for what is right.
Of course, where I direct that energy should be where I think it is effective, and where feels right.
But I also have to point out that it is possible to educate and come together, and also have different ideas.
It is complicated.
Sharing a different perspective is not part of the problem. Disagreeing is not part of the problem.
I'm so sad because IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO ME TO SUPPORT THE VOICES OF PEOPLE WHO, IN AMERICA, ARE BEING SILENCED.
I just don't understand why things need to get personally insulting, and harsh, and make people stop listening. I can name a lot of the most influential people in human rights movements in history that DID regard people's feelings. And they DID want active participation in conversations. Because their goal was to unite.
By all means, everyone deserves to have their voice. But why initiate a conversation if you don't care if anyone listens?
And from your perspective, if someone is part of what you see as the problem, isn't it their hearts you most want to speak to?
It just starts to feel like more darkness in a time desperately in need of light.
And Momo, I messaged you because I wanted to start a dialogue about dreads, and am just realizing I don't have the time to devote to doing that in a way that is productive, and I'm not sure that it CAN be done productively in this climate. Sometime I would love to tell you about some of the work I am doing in my everyday life, because it seems like it is actually working.
And I work my tail off. Because half of my family is black, but also because even if they were white I don't want to live in a world where people are STILL judged by the color of their skin.
This is emotional and personal and hard. But important, and I hate for it to end this way. Because I believe that we can come together and make a difference.
And I don't know a lot about the mermaid community.
But I know that for the sake of life in general, we have to.

[SeaGlass Siren]

I dropped you a PM

but in short it wasn't directed at you. You've been nothing but kind and thoughtful during the discussion.

[Mermaid Danielle]

Don't stress yourself out, It honestly isn't even worth it, I'm not even sure why I keep trying tbh. Enjoy your trip away from all the mer-drama!


Please keep trying, Mermaid Momo: Some of us are learning and really appreciate the links and discussions going on here.

Thank you to everyone participating in this. Personally, I am learning a lot, and the topics discussed and information here is helping direct me towards my own research on the subject.

Best wishes!

[AniaR]

merwandering you've honestly been fine through this whole thing. I have learned lots from you!

Momo, thank you so much for everything. I LISTEN. Your tumblr is literally where I learned a lot of this stuff. I seriously listen and consider this stuff.

I look at my own mermaid bubble here in canada and I ask myself all the time, how can we be more inclusive? I have an all white team. I didn't plan it that way. I did employ someone who was non-white but due to some serious issues they had to be dismissed. However, she did experience racism from a MULTICULTRUAL FESTIVAL (all run by white people) none-the-less when she worked for us. It was one of the most livid moments in my entire career. I actually had Sean send them an email telling them off because I was so angry I was shaking.

I try to look a how mermaiding can empower all people, and that means marginalized groups. I think I do a good job representing those with chronic illness/disability in myself, but I recently read an article and it has me wondering how I can empower others with physical disabilities in my mermaid school.

With mers of colour I haven't been able to employ anyone yet. I've put out casting calls a number of times after consulting with some of my pro friends in the community who are non white helping me. Naja raised a good point that in her experience as a mer of colour trying to get other mers of color itnto mermaiding, hair can sometimes be an issue. For now, we just tour to a lot of cultural areas and try to show support with our mermaid team. it really sucks though when I get asked "do you have a black mermaid? My little girl wants to see a mermaid like her" and I have to say no.

I was so close to hiring an awesome black lifeguard but she didn't fit in any of my tails, and I didnt have the $$ for a custom one (nor did she) She's still on my backup list though for the second I can make anything happen.

The main way I try to address it right now is through my multicultural workshop that we do for dry events. it focuses on mermaid myths across the world and shows art depictions of the mermaids. We tell stories and the kids help act them out and get involved, and at least in the stories and artwork they see themselves represented.


Not everyone is willing to speak up on touchy subjects on mernetwork. I can tell you from personal experience you can often feel very alone. but in reality a lot of people are relying on you to speak up for them. Either because they're scared, or don't know how. You are empowering people, regardless of how many white folks don't get it.

My dad used to be really racist toward aboriginals in Canada. it had everything to do with their rights for hunting and fishing, he didn't think it was fair. Then by a stroke of pure fate we were invited to a powwow and included in a drumming circle, and encouraged to participate. it totally changed my father. it stripped away all his hate and ignorance. they gave him a tshirt with their tribe band on it. And he wore it so much people asked me if he was native (my dad works outside so his skin is often way darker). Now he is a huge advocate. And it took him til his 40s to "get" it.

You words do change people. I promise. Sometimes it just feels like you're repating it over and over again. but you rock.

I actually had a great video from Feburary with me as a mermaid participating in a drum circle, but I didn't realize when it was being filmed that the child on my lap kept poking my boobs. LOL. So i didn't put it online, but I had a few snapshots.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10268717_1106796682685120_7227997018016158945_n.jp g?oh=1590d730780d5ef068cbb9ed5f26e6ea&oe=57E86DE1

I learn a lot from my friend Naja too who runs najestic entertainment. To me, she is a true embodiment of Yameyah. I call her that. LOL she is hopefully coming to mermania.

For anyone who doesn't know, we will also be having a panel presented by mers of colour about these issues at mermania!

[Mermaid Momo]

Merwandering you are perfectly fine and such an amazing person to have in this thread :) my post was more in regards to those who refuse to even think about how they may be hurting mers pf color and instead want to make the focus about how hurt they are that white people were called out specifically.

sent from my shellphone using tapatalk

[MermaidBonnie]

Finally saw this. Sea glass Im talking about performances happening right now. Aida, a North African Queen being played by white women. Turandot a Chinese princess being played by a white woman. Madame Butterfly being played by...you guessed it, white women. There are other examples but this is the performance world. Denyce Graves made a perfect Tosca (she's African American but the character is supposed to be white Italian) and Grace Bumbry who is one of my faves played Carmen. When auditioning for a role the company chooses who they want. I just assume this is what happens in all performance categories.

[AniaR]

the whole point of this thread, is challenging that status quo, and empowering mers of colour. It doesn't mean they're being passed over for lack of ability. This is the same in the film industry, and the same controversy came up at the oscars. It's a well researched issue. You can't just tell an entire race they aren't being chosen because they aren't the best qualified, or lecture them on going for auditions. People ARE turned down for their race, and this specific instance, Circ didn't bother trying black performers who could also fit the role. And while it's not Hannah's fault, maybe now that she's been educated on the matter she can make wiser decisions.

[AniaR]

This entire thread is literally about how white washing isn't OK and we all have a role to play in stopping in. Just because it did happen/does happen doesn't make it OK

[MermaidBonnie]

Is there an audition video that shows a mermaid of color that can out perform Hannah Fraser? I haven't seen any mermaid out perform her yet. Id be impressed with anyone regardless of race who could.

[Mermaid Whisper]

*sigh* there are many, MANY mers of color that could outdo her, but us white people are too busy pretending like they don't exist [emoji849] Hannah's not top notch OR a goddess, she's just famous. There are so many people out there that do incredible things and never get noticed for it because of the color of their skin. It's time to stop that, don't you think?

I'd rather see one mer role model for every type of person than a hundred for one type, you know? Diversity is what makes the world more interesting and beautiful.

Not trying to come off as rude, but your notion that Hannah is the one and only is wrong.


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[MermaidBonnie]

Hey Whisper, it's just my opinion that Hannah is the top mermaid performer. Id love to see others who could take a mermaid performance to a world of amazing above her. I love watching mermaids do fantastic stunts! It helps me push my own boundaries. I have been a performer since I was 6 as a pianist. If I got a dollar for everytime I heard a performer say "I didn't get the gig bc of this" whether it's race, looks, weight, etc I would be rich. Does racism happen? Of course. Am I totally uneducated on it? No. I went to Tennessee State University which is a historically black college for my Masters and took graduate courses in Multicultural studies. I got a real taste of being the minority there as I was not even welcome to join a sorority bc of my race. I had issues with one professor who never gave me grades and tried to fail me bc I was a white (blonde at the time) girl. I had so much documentation but got no help. So I got a good taste of racism and it helped open my eyes. when I lived in Austria I was refused service bc I looked too dark at a restaurant. I was sent away from an audition before I even sang bc the director wanted a singer who looked like Claudia Schiffer. Anyways I want people to be successful. I even give away black mermaid dolls at my events to encourage more little girls to become mermaids. If there were women of color who could outperform Hannah then yes that was probably a racist move on the company's part.

[MermaidBonnie]

Also just to make it clear, I'm not a huge Hannah fan. I respect her work and have to admit she's really good at what she does and is a pioneer for all of us.

[MermaidBonnie]

Whisper, please share videos of these mers you speak of. Sorry I keep posting responses teying to care for baby

[AniaR]

why does anyone have to prove to you that a black person is qualified to play a BLACK GODDESS??? You act like they must of brushed over black people because they didnt fit the role, when literally black people werent even considered for the role of a BLACK goddess. You are being the sterotype. The white woman coming into the narrative from coloured people, trying to suggest what is and isn't racism. You didn't experience racism being white. You may have experienced some sort of prejudice. You are aprt of the problem. Go ahead, make passive aggressive comments like I'm a bully for telling you. All the black and asian mers are telling you, but you aren't listening. For someone so anti drama your sure stir it up! Maybe you should ACTUALLY WATCH THE VIDEOS put in this thread and start listening to your mer brothers and sisters trying to get you to understand.

http://www.dailydot.com/via/reverse-racism-doesnt-exist/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/reverse-racism-isnt-a-thing_us_55d60a91e4b07addcb45da97

https://www.theodysseyonline.com/white-people-experience-racism

http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/07/8-things-white-people-race/

http://www.evangelicalsforsocialaction.org/race-justice/racism-why-whites-have-trouble-getting-it/

http://matadornetwork.com/pulse/18-things-white-people-need-know-discussing-racism/

I know you'll disregard all of this, for the plain fact that I'm the one posting it, but maybe others will find this helpful.

http://ripetech1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Neil_deGrasse_Tyson_drops_the-6b234a52dcaa365da9c2fb61ad90a26a.gif

[Mermaid Wesley]

the whole point of this thread, is challenging that status quo, and empowering mers of colour. It doesn't mean they're being passed over for lack of ability. This is the same in the film industry, and the same controversy came up at the oscars. It's a well researched issue. You can't just tell an entire race they aren't being chosen because they aren't the best qualified, or lecture them on going for auditions. People ARE turned down for their race, and this specific instance, Circ didn't bother trying black performers who could also fit the role. And while it's not Hannah's fault, maybe now that she's been educated on the matter she can make wiser decisions.
Very well spoken.

[Mermaid Whisper]

Raina, thank you for being a good role model for white mers. We need to accept our privilege as light-skinned folk and use it to help those who don't get all the chances we do.

The fact of the matter is that ONLY black people should have been considered for the role, just as we do for specific characters on television. Hannah should have never even come up in the discussion, because she is British, blonde, and, ah--WHITE.

I urge you to listen to all of the voices that have come up in this topic instead of just picking out the ones that strike your fancy.

I'll say it again. Hannah is not the end all, be all of the mermaid world. Spindrift, Coradion, the Singapore Mermaid, and so many more have what it takes to be the best at what they do, but we're not letting them. Take your hands off their wings and let them be free.


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[malinghi]

Just a reminder for everyone to be cool. No rule violations here, I just wanted to chime in cause it looks like the discussion's getting heated.

If anyone here finds themselves getting too upset, I recommend taking a break and getting some tea. And if you think anyone crosses a line feel free to let me or the Mods know, although please remember that "disagreeing with you" isn't a rule violation.

[Mermaid Whisper]

Thank you for that, Malinghi! Though I must say, I'm more of a coffee girl [emoji6]

I do love all you guys and I respect your opinions. I've just seen so much injustice in my time on Earth and my heart aches every day for each person I cannot save. I'm a sap and a bleeding heart, and I just want everyone to be happy.


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[AniaR]

Imma leave these here:

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13754088_10210262453500342_2025140498843672912_n.j pg?oh=937b1c6a38b8684252e10ac2f415d5a8&oe=5835DA63

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13502035_795637560536946_2311060410702131485_n.jpg ?oh=ce4839d30b9ca4281d3810bfc63d3a9f&oe=581D77E5

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13346873_10154845394119041_6523812979892512921_n.j pg?oh=a65459b3b0feb28e8ebc9967b2f2a3eb&oe=58147384

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13569044_10210039713451980_2274285958615774831_o.j pg

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13494791_10209970808409397_8038240833489007991_n.j pg?oh=1cdbd46e6c7f8ca8f8b725eebbdf9f93&oe=5830CDF2

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13310368_10209782412619620_3438555909543732383_n.j pg?oh=e4a3d7fd00cbf4b5ba0af3fbbeab2a90&oe=58157847



Got mad love for Hannah but THIS woman is *my* Yemeyah. Not only is she an amazing black mer, underwater performer/model, and business woman, she is also living with cancer and lupus and manages to kick ass.

[Mermaid Whisper]

Imma leave these here:

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13754088_10210262453500342_2025140498843672912_n.j pg?oh=937b1c6a38b8684252e10ac2f415d5a8&oe=5835DA63

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13502035_795637560536946_2311060410702131485_n.jpg ?oh=ce4839d30b9ca4281d3810bfc63d3a9f&oe=581D77E5

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13346873_10154845394119041_6523812979892512921_n.j pg?oh=a65459b3b0feb28e8ebc9967b2f2a3eb&oe=58147384

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13569044_10210039713451980_2274285958615774831_o.j pg

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13494791_10209970808409397_8038240833489007991_n.j pg?oh=1cdbd46e6c7f8ca8f8b725eebbdf9f93&oe=5830CDF2

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13310368_10209782412619620_3438555909543732383_n.j pg?oh=e4a3d7fd00cbf4b5ba0af3fbbeab2a90&oe=58157847



Got mad love for Hannah but THIS woman is *my* Yemeyah. Not only is she an amazing black mer, underwater performer/model, and business woman, she is also living with cancer and lupus and manages to kick ass.

My goodness, she is STUNNING! She sounds like an incredible woman, too, and I'm so happy that there are mers like her out there somewhere!

A little off-topic, but do you have any videos of her performances? I would LOVE to see them!


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[AniaR]

she posts teasers on her najestic instagram :D

for reference, this is Yemyah:

https://67.media.tumblr.com/0a0155eb17b197614a7ed4bd720468d9/tumblr_nhtlksuOcz1s2hryzo1_500.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ab/2e/71/ab2e71ba2c6c2c329f3004cbe23f63fc.jpg

http://themotherhouseofthegoddess.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/yemaya-2.jpg

https://thepaganandthepen.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/yemaya.jpg

http://globalfusionproductions.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/ag-yemaya1.jpg


In Yoruba mythology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoruba_Mythology), Yemo̩ja is a mother spirit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_goddess); patron spirit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patron_deity) of women, especially pregnant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_pregnancy) women; patron deity of the Ògùn river (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%C3%92g%C3%B9n_river&action=edit&redlink=1) but she is also worshipped at streams, creeks, springs in addition to wells and run-offs...anywhere there is water flowing. Her name is a contraction of the Yoruba (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoruba_language) words "Iye omo eja" which means "Mother whose children are like fish." This represents the vastness of her motherhood, her fecundity, and her reign over all living things. In West Africa, Yemoja is worshipped as a high-ranking river deity, but in Brazil and Cuba she is worshipped mainly as a sea/ocean goddess. River deities in Yorubaland include Yemo̩ja, Ò̩s̩un (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osun) (Oshun), Erinlè̩ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erinle), O̩bà (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oba_%28Orisha%29), Yewa, etc. It is Olókun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olokun) that fills the role of sea deity in Yorubaland, while Yemoja is a leader of the other river deities. Since the river deity Yemoja is also a mermaid, she can visit all other bodies of water, including the sea, but her home and the realm she owns is the river, especially the Ogun River in Nigeria.



Yemeyah is literally a goddess of the African diaspora. We literally took a goddess who represents the suffering of her people for their skin. HOW CAN PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT

Yemaya is the Yorùbá Orisha or Goddess of the living Ocean, considered the mother of all. She is the source of all the waters, including the rivers of western Africa, especially the River Ogun. Her name is a contraction of Yey Omo Eja, which means "Mother Whose Children are the Fish." As all life is thought to have begun in the sea, all life is held to have begun with Yemaya. She is motherly and strongly protective, and cares deeply for all Her children, comforting them and cleansing them of sorrow. She is said to be able to cure infertility in women, and cowrie shells represent Her wealth. She does not easily lose Her temper, but when angered She can be quite destructive and violent, as the sea in a storm.
Yemaya was brought to the New World with the African diaspora and She is now worshipped in many cultures besides Her original Africa. In Brazilian Candomblé, where She is known as Yemanja or Imanje, She is the Sea Mother who brings fish to the fishermen, and the crescent moon is Her sign. As Yemanja Afodo, also of Brazil, She protects boats travelling on the sea and grants safe passage.

In Haitian Vodou She is worshipped as a moon Goddess, and is believed to protect mothers and their children. She is associated with the mermaid-spirits of Lasirenn (Herself a form of Erzulie (http://www.thaliatook.com/AMGG/erzulie.php)) Who brings seduction and wealth, and Labalenn, Her sister the whale.


Yemaya rules over the surface of the ocean, where life is concentrated. She is associated with the Orisha Olokin (Who is variously described as female, male, or hermaphrodite) Who represents the depths of the Ocean and the unconscious, and together They form a balance. She is the sister and wife of Aganju, the God of the soil, and the mother of Oya, (http://www.thaliatook.com/AMGG/oya.php) Goddess of the winds.
Our Lady of Regla in Brazil may be linked to Her, and She is equated elsewhere in the Americas with the Virgin Mary as the Great Mother. In parts of Brazil She is honored as the ocean Goddess at the summer solstice, while in the north east of the country Her festival is held on February 2nd (a day that is also associated with Her daughter Oya, as well as being the feast day of the Celtic Bride (http://www.thaliatook.com/AMGG/bride.php)), with offerings of blue and white flowers cast into the Sea.
Yemaya's colors are blue and white, and She is said to wear a dress with seven skirts that represent the seven seas. Sacred to Her are peacocks, with their beautiful blue-green iridescence, and ducks. The number seven is Hers, also for the seven seas.
Alternate spellings: Yemanja, Yemojá, Yemonja, Yemalla, Yemana, Ymoja, Iamanje, Iemonja, Imanje
Epithets: Achabba, in Her strict aspect; Oqqutte in Her violent aspect: Atarmagwa, the wealthy queen of the sea; Olokun or Olokum as Goddess of dreams
Also called: Mama Watta, "Mother of the Waters"

[Mermaid Momo]

Whisper, please share videos of these mers you speak of. Sorry I keep posting responses teying to care for baby

http://static2.fjcdn.com/comments/5356968+_60e4c0707f526505af5d2d82caf3d776.jpg

Bonnie, You clearly haven't done much research, nor even skimmed over the material supplied here in this thread. it is an ongoing and known problem with casting people of color as entertainers. as actors, dancers, singers, etc. Heck, even though Othello is a moor, aka, black, he was NEVER played by a black man until VERY recently where only 1 black man has so far played him (Usually actors are painted black, or greenish grey)

And I will say it again, Watch the Misty Copeland documentary, which actually goes over how she wasn't wanted as a dancer because of being black.
<span style="color: rgb(84, 84, 84); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: small; line-height: 18.2px;">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y2h6fz2XzQ

A quick google search of the color problem within entertainment would have given you a very quick answer. You can start with #oscarssowhite
But since I have a feeling you won't, here's a condensed video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ospx7tXWYbI

Also I found the best meme that relates sorta to this thread
https://media0.giphy.com/media/IoSE0hXjv5voc/200_s.gif

And you also missed the entire point of the video : Stop stealing our shit.
http://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/2015/09/03/635768936109460661-705064033_article.jpeg
https://pulsefeedz.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/56053-a.jpg
Beyonce tries Kylie Jenner lips? Seriously? THIS is what happens when people appropriate cultures, the original people are cut out of it and the white person is given all claims to it.

"Dear white people, You want our culture but you don't want us" (This quote right here, goes very well with Hannah deciding to play and African goddess)

[Mermaid Whisper]

Merwandering, just go to sleeeeeep. We can talk about all the bad stuff in the morning.

A quick tip: if you're concerned about your posts being out of order, you can edit them with copy-pastes of the other posts to put them right.

I've got to go to bed. All my (mer)friendly love.


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[merwandering]

Merwandering, just go to sleeeeeep. We can talk about all the bad stuff in the morning.

A quick tip: if you're concerned about your posts being out of order, you can edit them with copy-pastes of the other posts to put them right.

I've got to go to bed. All my (mer)friendly love.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
lol you have nooooooo idea:/ seriously.
When I am flooded with a million thoughts but can't finish a.single.one.SOMEONE needs to tell me to be quiet! Glad it's you because I know you will tell me so very sweetly;)
goodnight mermaids!

[Venessa Louisiana Mermaid]

Guess I am late to the party here since I have not one but *gasp* TWO kids to care for. I am really glad this discussion has begun in our community and I hope it continues. I am excited to see it in real time at MerMania this January. It is a particularly poignant time for me personally as I am living in Baton Rouge which is Ground Zero at the moment for what happens when minorities are disenfranchised for decades. My city is torn apart my hatred and violence. This is a city that had the longest running desegregation case in America. The bus boycotts began here...public pools were filled so blacks could not swim in them. EVERY hospital in the minority neighborhoods have been closed. Tell me this isn't a direct way to "thin" the black population here. Black communities are over policed and the police have blood on their hands. I digress.

The point of this is to say that this is the product of racism. You may think this is an extreme example but it doesn't happen all at once. It happens in little chips here and there over the years. People turned down for jobs, denied basic rights like education and healthcare. As a blonde, pumpkin spice loving white girl, I honestly cant even begin to understand what people of color deal with on a daily basis. And when the protests began here, and people pushed back, they were labeled as "thugs" and "troublemakers." People don't want their authority or the status quo challenged. People like Hannah and even people on this thread want to pretend like they can empathize or that really it is about talent. Can we talk about Hannah right quick by the way? Major respect for Hannah and her "skill level." But Hannah is the very product of white privilege. Born into a family with money, she has had access to the best photographers, the means to travel, etc. People like Hannah and those who voice support of her have never checked their privilege. Because they have not had to up to this point. They believe in their blessed hearts that they are the best because they have been told that they are and the people they surround themselves with maintain that illusion. And when questioned, they deflect with "One Love" and "Let's All Have Unity" and that kind of dismissive condescending bullshit is at the heart of the frustration of why people of color feel they are not heard. When they dare rock the boat they are painted negatively for rocking the boat that cradles the illusions of benevolent whites since Constantine.

So keep pushing. Make people uncomfortable. Be seen. Be heard. Some of us are listening....and we support you.

[merwandering]

gasp nothin', girl. I win.
Four kids, two with special needs. lol
but, yes, was at the moment putting down the littlesthttp://mernetwork.com/index/019d46d7-57a8-4084-9c47-440b67312fb1


and now he's back awake. And it's 2am. And I'm definitely not more rested, but also still have this on my mind
as always

Whitewashing isn't a minor issue. Whitewashing is part of the cornerstone of the racism that is leading to multiple deaths and massive inhumanity

So when we participate in the whitewashing
we are contributing to that cornerstone.
And I'm tired of the dying.

So- not only is this issue a result of existing racism, but also continuing to perpetuate racism, and that is why it makes sense to be very proactive in taking steps to change it.

White being overrepresented in media and the performance arts creates a self-perpetuating cycle, where that is the standard, the expectation, and therefore what sells, and therefore what is being promoted.

It has to be recognized that there is a correlation between the promotion of white people in the media and the underlying messages that contribute to a continued construct of racism.
For that reason we have to actively commit to changing it.

On one hand, it is true that many performers of color are being passed over, for a ton of reasons.
White stories are the ones most often being told, the roles most often being written. And the phenomenon of whitewashing puts an implicit bias in the mind of casting directors, when they envision the perfect person for the role, a person of color is much less likely to come to mind.

Then there are the much more complex issues. While it is true that there are so many extremely talented performers being passed over, at the same time- there still aren't enough. This is not about talent in the sense of some inborn aptitude- it is about a cultivated skill set. We have to be honest in this conversation about the reality that while Juilliard is pumping out some incredible talent of color all the time- the cards are systemically stacked against a lot of people of color in general. Unfortunately in a lot of communities, racial lines that divide communities are often also socioeconomic lines. And we have to recognize that racism still contributes to those socioeconomic lines. Schools with less high quality arts programs, potentially amazing performers who spend their summer taking care of younger siblings while their single mom works two jobs and their white peer attends performing arts camp. And the lack of representation of performing artists of color more often causing little girls who are white to identify with the girl on the stage or screen or front of a magazine, and think- 'that's going to be me!'.

That is NOT to label and stereotype people of color. This is to point out that there is a huge discrepancy in "talent" to begin with because of the privilege it takes to cultivate it in the first place.

case in point.

Hannah saying she "most embodied the role" of an African goddess just took that goddess, and said that the best current representation of her is Hannah Fraser.

So we just annihilated the cultural core of that goddess, in a production about culture.

And they said that the best representation of that African goddess is white. So beyond hiring a white woman to fill the role, they said- white is better. Even at being an African goddess.

They aren't just continuing to underrepresent black performers, or black roles, or black role models.
They have taken the role of a black goddess, and taken away black.
They took an African goddess, and made her white.

Just let that sink in.

In America right now, we are emotionally raw, we are weary. Because this issue is contributing to a much, much larger picture.

For example, my cousin is an attorney and has a new client this week. Her name is Breaion King, and in my city a few days ago, footage was discovered of her arrest last year. She is 26, and a schoolteacher, and got pulled over for speeding. She was doing as she was asked. She ended up being violently thrown on the ground, and after an arrest that was hard to watch, there is footage of a conversation between her and the arresting officer. He asks if she knows why people are racist, and she says no. He tells her people are racist because black people have violent tendencies.

So first there is the issue of this man wielding extreme power and weapons in the situation. But the police chief never found out about it, because it wasn't seen as a big deal at the time. And she didn't feel like she had the power to file a complaint.

The problem isn't just a rogue officer. It is an entire construct. It is part of a pervasive, institutionalized, systematic racism. It exists. And this officer, and all of the people above him who made these decisions are still doing their job, as usual.

Meanwhile, my black daughter is learning to drive this summer. She is about to drive down those same streets, patrolled by that same officer.

In addressing this problem, it is important to look at the whole system, not just the officer. What message did it send? what are all of the sources and all of the implications of this? and so when anyone pipes up saying- "it's getting better", "most officers aren't like that"... then before you know it, the conversation has shifted from "how do we unite and make a difference" to eventually just- everyone thinking things are pretty much ok and the salience of the initial conversation has been lost altogether.
and then going about their business

And this thread, that began as a conversation about how to support people of color in this community
kept shifting into a conversation about white girls hair

Whitewashing.

[merwandering]

p.s... I'm so tired of the dying, and the weight of the reality of this issue, that that's exactly why I would love to see this conversation continue in a way that is less divisive. I promise that when tensions run high, the people who bear the brunt of it the most are the ones who least deserve it.

[Venessa Louisiana Mermaid]

Unfortunately in a lot of communities, racial lines that divide communities are often also socioeconomic lines. And we have to recognize that racism still contributes to those socioeconomic lines. Schools with less high quality arts programs, potentially amazing performers who spend their summer taking care of younger siblings while their single mom works two jobs and their white peer attends performing arts camp. And the lack of representation of performing artists of color more often causing little girls who are white to identify with the girl on the stage or screen or front of a magazine, and think- 'that's going to be me!'.

That is NOT to label and stereotype people of color. This is to point out that there is a huge discrepancy in "talent" to begin with because of the privilege it takes to cultivate it in the first place.



YES, YES, YES......that says it all. That your skill set is MANY time truly a result of your privilege and economic class. And that some people are born on third base and think they are entitled to a trophy because they made a home run. Meanwhile, others don't even get a chance to bat.

And 4 KIDS?!!! LOL....yes, you definitely have me beat. :D

[SeaMansa]

*sigh* As both a black person and an aspiring screenwriter, there is so much I want to add to this conversation about racism, whitewashing, media representation, and the entire justification of the erasure of non-white people and non-European culture going on, but its too late and I just discovered this thread exists and haven't even read through it all yet. Anyway, I see we are talking about the Orishas??!?!?! I have been researching all the Orishas for like the past year, including Olokun and Yemoja (for obvious reasons!) because I was implementing west African culture and mythos into my stories.

If anyone cares, there is an online mini-series about to come out that was produced in Africa about the orishas, were the orishas are essentially superheros. The next one is about Yemoja. I watched the first short today about Oya (orisha/goddess of change, and storms and rebirth). It was pretty good for what it was, considering the budget and all. Can't wait to see the one about Yemoja. But if I am understanding correctly, Hannah whats-her-face is playing Yemoja in a film?
38379

[Merman Dan]

Not that we are competing or anything but seven kids here, ages 12-22. Three by birth and four by adoption. Two with cerebral palsy and two with spina bifida. We're heading back to China in the fall for our new daughter, a 12 year old girl with cp. The thing about being a parent of only one child - when something breaks, you always know who did it. ;)

[AniaR]

Seamansa I saw the promo stuff for that it looks amazing!


I spent 8 years working for an art gallery that focused on the artwork of minorities. It was my first real exposure to the power of racism because I was always in my bubble. Some highlights include:

There was one piece that was a dream board. It was interactive, beautiful stones that you moved and when you moved them in different combinations it triggered a video of different black mythology and I loved it.

A piece about racism featured a man who was black and his white wife. Their kids were black as night and when she took her kids out, she was treated like a saint for adopting these poor Africans (seriously) meanwhile when he took the kids out he was followed around. He took a photo of himself, made a poster that looked like a wanted posted but left the top blank syaing "I am a ____" or "the ____" or "a ____" he posted these all around canada during black history month, in known places associated with the underground railroad. Then, he documented the defacing people did of the posters. it was chilling. He made a whole website about the experiences, I'm actually going to message the curator and ask her if she still has the link, it was quite powerful.

It featured a lot of work on te opression of women, the African Diaspora, and aboriginal

Check out one of the projects, Miss Canadiana: http://camilleturner.com/project/miss-canadiana/ I met her and she was amazing!

I think the fact I got to have these experiences and go to a famously feminist university really impacted me. I wish all white folks could have experiences like this.

I took a course on the women's right to vote and there wa sa whole sub section on black women and how much harder it was for them. One black woman was quoted as saying something along the lines of that all women had to climb, but black women also had to lift while they climb.



and ps yeah everyone has things that make their life busy and important. If your baby needs your attention just get off mernetwork LOL the conversation isn't going anywhere if we can help it. <3

[merwandering]

Merman Dan of course I was kidding and we are not all competing...but you win so hard I always bow deeply when you enter the room. ( though I'm a little surprised that you didn't say that the best thing about having one kid is that when your kid is taking a nap all of your kids are asleep!) we always joke that for us, having one is so different than having two, and having to is so different than having three, and having four is sort of like having 17

And that makes me think so much about parenting, and gives me one other explanation from my perspective. Just totally my personal response, to people who for valid reasons don't understand where I'm coming from, but are trying to.

if I knew nothing of this community, and had never heard of Hannah, my only context would be that I have a daughter who loves mermaids, and she's black. If I heard about a production about a mermaid African goddess I would think- omg!!!! finally!!! thank you !!!!.And I would be so excited.
I can't even tell you how it would crush me to find out that that African goddess was a white woman. So if it was a DVD and I had, in my excitement, ordered it online, and I opened it in the mail I would scramble to throw it away before my daughter even sees it. Because for her it would do more harm than good. And I would probably cry, and I would probably be angry. Because she is COVERED in messages that white is better, and I can't hand her a video as her heart searches for confirmation that she is beautiful, that in this film about a black woman, black women didn't quite measure up.

Even if you grew up all of the world, and I have to say I completely understand that connotations and feelings and customs are different and these are specific to America. But you have to live under a rock to not know what's happening here, and America is a huge market for that type of media, so if you hear someone say wait that's a problem- I just can't understand not listening.

[merwandering]

For the Record I realize it would take a lot more time, and it would cost a lot more money but I would love to see them decide to refilm those sections with different mermaids because if they are truly going to honor different cultures then incorporating those cultures would be a massive step in the right direction. being strong enough to say- you know what we've decided that we can do better
Think about what a huge message that would send
It would be so worth it

[merwandering]

and ps yeah everyone has things that make their life busy and important. If your baby needs your attention just get off mernetwork LOL the conversation isn't going anywhere if we can help it. <3

not like that, lol- like...my kid woke up and he's now half asleep and if I fall asleep and stop patting his back, he will be SUPER AWAKE
mernetwork to the rescue
(but at the same time know my brain is scrambled to the point that my thoughts aren't straight and sometime when I type a word I look at them and suddenly question if it's really a word)

[MermaidBonnie]

Im not stirring up anything. I'm politely asking to see the videos of the other mers who had the talent and skill to outperform Hannah for the role. That is all. Could you share those please? Thanks!

[merwandering]

I'm just not sure that comes into play. Assuming it's about the level of swimming, why not incorporate the goddess in another way?

[MermaidBonnie]

Thanks also to those who have kept their tone respectful and not condescending. There's no reason to be condescending when I'm asking questions and sharing my perspective as I am open to learning and sharing. It's nice to hear others have kids too. I don't know how performers have multiple kids and work. My daughter woke up and needed me hence my misspellings and having to go and coming back this morning.

[MermaidBonnie]

Well I'm personally happy to help promote performers who aren't white, but I need videos. The little girls I've been working with are desperate to see mermaids perform who look like them. I've only been able to name Farasha and Pearl. These girls want to see videos, and clients want to see them too. Id be happy to send their videos to clients to help them get work.

[Merman Dan]

I don't know how performers have multiple kids and work.

For me, it's a delicate balance of substituting coffee for sleep. ;) When my oldest son was growing up, he would need to be turned 2-3 times during the night. That was my job. So for 20 years I literally slept in 2-3 hour shifts.

[merwandering]

Imagine for a moment you are Hannah. You walk up to- Africa, and say- I made this project. It's about you, to honor you. But after thinking about it, I was the best at it, so it's starring me.
In the bigger picture, can it possibly be true? Does it honor a culture?
Is the film really about honoring culture? Not at all about-
the bottom line?
so if it is about making money, and it is at the expense of culture, veiled as honoring culture- that feels wrong.

[merwandering]

Well I'm personally happy to help promote performers who aren't white, but I need videos. The little girls I've been working with are desperate to see mermaids perform who look like them. I've only been able to name Farasha and Pearl. These girls want to see videos, and clients want to see them too. Id be happy to send their videos to clients to help them get work.
That's where I feel like I want to make sure is the difference- show me videos of awesome mermaids is different than show me someone more skilled than Hannah. I feel like in that context, they don't at all need to be more skilled than Hannah to be a little girls dream come true, and I think the extra work it might take to compensate for the gap in training (not knowing, again, anything specific about this production) would be well worth it to use a person of color. It takes effort. I feel like the effort isn't just worth it, but crucial. In the name of honoring culture, and in the name of making progress, and in the name of being the solution, not the problem

[SeaGlass Siren]

hi Bonnie what's good. Just resurfacing because people have been talking me what's going on.
As mer whisper said, if you want videos you can search easily search Enakai/spindrift, mermaid malia, coradion (you might have heard of them as all three work or are friends with Mermaid Kariel in Hawaii) and sirena, Singapore's first mermaid, and countless others. You seem like a smart enough mer to use a simple google search engine, or YouTube, or Instagram to find the videos.

But for your convenience because you seem to have a bit of trouble searching for equally qualified mers who are up to par with Hannah, here are videos of Sirena of Singapore. https://m.facebook.com/thesingaporemermaid/videos/?mt_nav=1 she has also been features in many videos such as Clicknetwork.coms video with Xiaxue.

Malia and Enakai have Facebook pages as well which you should find easily and there will be videos there.
Good luck in your search efforts for more videos!

[merwandering]

I think the information is there, as to why this doesn't promote, include, or respect mers of color in this community.
I think the other half of the conversation needs to be- so doing it right, what does that look like?
What do we need to champion as the way things SHOULD be happening?
I feel like the first piece is- if you were to make a film about culture, because you had the platform and money to do so, shouldn't the first step be to have people of that culture tell their OWN story? write their OWN script? because then you aren't having to research how to make it 'not offensive'- you are giving a voice to the authentic story in the first place.

[Starfrit]

Well I'm personally happy to help promote performers who aren't white, but I need videos.

Hi Bonnie! I realize I'm super late to the conversation here, but I figured I'd help you out by pointing out that there are LOADS of the kinds of videos you're looking for here (http://www.youtube.com) and here (http://www.google.com).

:)

[merwandering]

For me here's a big issue- assuming that Hannah is by far the most skilled swimmer- why is it worth it to write the role of that goddess in a way that relies on THAT EXACT level of swimming, and sacrifice such an important part of who she is? Why would that be okay? Is it really necessary, in order to portray how magical and amazing she is, for it to use some swimming technique that only Hannah possesses? (assuming that's the case- I have no clue)
Is that exact specific swimming technique REALLY what most embodies the spirit of that goddess?
It isn't, it doesn't, it's not. no.
so the conversation being about- is or isn't Hannah the best by far swimmer- isn't the point. I don't know.
I do know that if she were literally half dolphin and raised underwater and could hold her breath effortlessly for 20 minutes, I still wouldn't think she was the best fit for the role of an African mermaid goddess

[merwandering]

Over the last couple years I have found a ton of videos just browsing google and youtube. They are there.
My point was that I don't know how they compare to Hannah- but it's because I have never seen one of Hannah's videos, lol

[AniaR]

Merman Dan of course I was kidding

none of it directed at you. I think we're all tired of certain people bringing up their kids as deflection is all as if they're the only one with a kid, when lots of members have them!

[MermaidBonnie]

Dan you are my hero!!!!! I wrote you awhile back about adopting children with special needs as my hubby is a special educator. Id love to hear more of your family's story. It is so beautiful what you and your wife do! ❤️

[AniaR]

Im not stirring up anything. I'm politely asking to see the videos of the other mers who had the talent and skill to outperform Hannah for the role. That is all. Could you share those please? Thanks!

or you could use the internet yourself. Look at the water phenoix for starters. She does all the same stuff. No one owes you any proof. you still wont aknowledge your own tone policing.

[MermaidBonnie]

Merwandering you have been nothing but insightful, genuine, and full of grace, and I'm so delighted to have met you on here. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and for being so kind

[MermaidBonnie]

Starfrit I can't wait to watch these videos when I get home. Thank you for sharing them

[merwandering]

I'm not a connoisseur at all and am the first to admit I have no idea what I'm looking at or talking about when it comes to this,
but I just pulled up a couple videos, and- I guess I should have before, because- in my mind I was taking into account what she said- that she had a bunch of groundbreaking footage and out of this world skill...
I don't see a ton of difference?
I PROMISE i am not being a jerk, I am seriously asking- what's the big deal?
the videos don't look THAT different at first glance?
feel free to school me, but...

[AniaR]

Black merfolk since Bonnie clearly seems unable to search herself or is out of touch with who is who: (please don't try to hid ebehind I want to show kids like you couldnt possibly find anyone to show kids... *rolls eyes*)

Eric Juku
Fernando
Mali lee
Momo
The water Phoenix (the real mer from the film)
Pheonix mer
Reiku
naja from Najestic who I already posted
mermaid cydnea
Madison Juliet
Whitney
Suki

AND THESE ARE JUST MY FRIENDS not even all the black mers in our community, or the black free divers, or the black underwater stunt folks,


You really can't wrap your head around how inappropriate your comments are. "I need proof" and people keep giving it to you..

[AniaR]

Starfrit I can't wait to watch these videos when I get home. Thank you for sharing them


lol

:lol:

think she missed that one starfit

[merwandering]

Actually please don't anyone school me here, this thread not about Hannah's swimming, but now I'm intrigued, lol

[MermaidBonnie]

Thanks SeaGlass, yes I do know some of these women personally. I thank you for taking the time to share a link. I'm not as tech savvy as some of you ladies. Yes I can google things but you never know what pops up (mermaid porn for example, gross!!!) and I wanted to have specific links to these videos of these girls who would play the African goddess better. Again I wasn't using my daughter as a deflection just I had to go and had some typos. of course I'm not surprised as I do have people on here blocked for that reason-turning things into negative ones. I will take the information shared with me and take a good look at it and learn and grow. Thank you again to those who were kind. I will remember that ❤️

[AniaR]

can't wait for this film


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVdZE8AY24Y

[MermaidBonnie]

Merwandering, I think you would enjoy Hannah's videos. The one with all the Sharks is my fave! you are correct the thread is not about that. Thanks again ladies and gentlemen.

[MermaidBonnie]

Starfrit your videos may not be working? I was hoping to see videos that were submitted to Cirque that showed the skill set they wanted for their show by a mermaid performer of African decent. I thought that's what happened, that mermaids did send in their videos and still Cirque didn't take that into consideration which would really be unfair.

[Mermaid Whisper]

From what I understand, other mers were not even on the table. They just wanted Hannah.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[merwandering]

Well here's where I stand, again, from the perspective of building a community
I am so much more scared than angry. I am terrified.
In the bigger picture, in the real world, all of this tears away at people of color who I love,
but beyond that- they do not even feel physically safe.
And so it isn't just an issue of people of color saying - 'don't take this from me'-
it is the larger issue of why we should stand against a world who thinks it is okay to take in the way that they are in the first place
It so much makes me think of Sherman Alexie's work
like 'Evolution'
it is to take a holy shroud and turn it into the robe of the queen under whom a people are suffering
and I understand being angry. And also I never will.
But, what I would say is- if you are here, because you want to understand, and you are asking questions
don't go.
do some research, If it moves to private messaging me, so be it.
But pull up a chair, and lets have our three cups of tea. Because we desperately need your help.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Starfrit your videos may not be working? I was hoping to see videos that were submitted to Cirque that showed the skill set they wanted for their show by a mermaid performer of African decent. I thought that's what happened, that mermaids did send in their videos and still Cirque didn't take that into consideration which would really be unfair.

This was mentioned before: no efforts were taken by cirque to reach out to black mers specifically for the role. Audition tapes do not exist because we were not made aware of it until the video was released.

im also assuming no you blocked Raina but she did list quite a few black mers, who are qualified specifically for that role, that I thought would be worth sharing with you.
The water Phoenix (the real mer from the film)
naja from Najestic Aka Natasha James

Natasha I believe has two Instagram account and her video is on her Instagram. She also has a Facebook account as well where she shares many of her videos.
Raina has also shared the water Phoenix video clip a few posts ago as well but again I'm assuming you blocked her?
simply type The water Phoenix into the search engine.

[Mermaid Whisper]

Well here's where I stand, again, from the perspective of building a community
I am so much more scared than angry. I am terrified.
In the bigger picture, in the real world, all of this tears away at people of color who I love,
but beyond that- they do not even feel physically safe.
And so it isn't just an issue of people of color saying - 'don't take this from me'-
it is the larger issue of why we should stand against a world who thinks it is okay to take in the way that they are in the first place
It so much makes me think of Sherman Alexie's work
like 'Evolution'
it is to take a holy shroud and turn it into the robe of the queen under whom a people are suffering
and I understand being angry. And also I never will.
But, what I would say is- if you are here, because you want to understand, and you are asking questions
don't go.
do some research, If it moves to private messaging me, so be it.
But pull up a chair, and lets have our three cups of tea. Because we desperately need your help.

You should write poetry. You'd be darling at it.

Psssh, why drink tea when you can have coffee? [emoji12]

I still love all you guys, and this discussion is really helping me see the world and learn a bit more about it. Thanks for all your input, everyone! I think we're really getting somewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jukumerboii]

Alright,,im here. Now for those who dont know me, im usually VERY PRO curse words about things im passionate about. But im going to NOT show that side of me today because i just had some seaweed and im feeling real natant right now.

Here we go!

The main reason Momo posted this thread was for pple to see how we, as black mers FEEL about certain things that WE hold close to our hearts. When it comes to Hannah, and i've said it once (in my video posted) and i'll say it again, at the end of the day, Circq could have picked an african american performer to EMBODY Yemaya! She's an ocean goddess, mother of all things. The performer DID NOT have to be in a tail to represent her. She could have been in a dress and had pple praise dancing around her. Even if they wanted her to be a mermaid they could have gotten a BLACK PERSON who could swim, put on a fabric tail and swim they ass back and fourth in that POOL. Hannah was only chosen because of her FAME! Nothing else. No shade.

Im seeing the question "where the ethnic mers that can out-perform her and why they didnt send audition videos." First off, Hannah was swimming in a FREAKIN POOL ON STAGE! There was no need to out swim or out perform her for the role of a BLACK GODDESS!!! Second, had me and every other BLACK mermaid HEARD about an audition for this, best BELIEVE we ALL would have sent in footage, CUZ ITS ON THE INTERNET!!! Hannah was chosen because of her FAME! Hell im sure there wasn't even an audition to begin with.

All and all YEMAYA is Black, Hannah isnt. It should have been a black person point blank period.

For those of you who want to see me and my other melanin merfam SWIM in videos just type in our names on Google. It's that easy! Merman Blix, Merman Amour, Mermaid Madison, Najestic ENT, its ALL THERE on the internet. We are here and we are COMING and we coming HARD! We at Najestic ENT have an LGBT series coming out next year called ATLANTASEA. Itll be about Yemaya and other african Orishas. Along with black mermaids, witches,vamps,and other creatures who are COC (creatures of color). There's that Orisha series that was mentioned earlier in the thread AND The Water Phoenix.

[AniaR]

. I thought that's what happened, that mermaids did send in their videos and still Cirque didn't take that into consideration which would really be unfair.

You've literally been explained this by everyone in the thread. it's IN HERE SO MANY TIMES. please read before you white splain. Pretend you dont read my comments and have me "blocked" (there is no blocking on mernetwork) but throw passive agressive shade at me LOL.

You didnt bother to actually ready anything, OR watch the vlogs, or look at any of the proof you've been going on and on about. Try doing those things before you decide to tell black people what is and what isn't racist lol

[Merman Andrew]

OK I dont claim to know the full story about why Cirque hired Hannah and then got her to play the part of an African Goddess (and I agree with everyone here that it was pretty shitty of them to do that), but I want to suggest that it might have just been Cirque were not aware of other excellent black mers being out there, and chose Hannah simply because she is well known as a mer. Now that doesn't forgive them for their lack of research if that's what it is but I just wanted to point out that most people really don't know much about the Mer world and the great diversity it encompasses, I know that before I discovered MerNetwork late last year the only Mermaid that I really knew about was Hannah, because I'd seen her in clips on YouTube etc. We in the Mer community often forget that people in the general population don't know all the stuff we know about the community.

So perhaps what we need to focus on is promoting the diversity of the Mer world to the wider population, and make mers of colour just as famous as Hanah is. I aknowledge there is obviously predujice against Mers of colour, as pointed out by Mermaid Momo's excellent video. I think though we have to a knowledge the historical aspects of Mermaids and Mermaid culture before we go and assume someone is being racist by wanting a white Mermaid over a Mermaid of colour. And that is the simple fact that Mermaid myths were largely popularised by white people fantasizing about beautiful white women. Therefore, Mermaids are most often thought about as beautiful white women, and when someone orders a Mermaid for a party or other gig etc, that is likely to be the stereotype they are expecting. I don't think it's necessarily racist of them not to be thinking about black mermaids, if what they want is a white Mermaid. Now I don't know if that's what happened here with the Cirque hiring, i.e. they thought "we need a Mermaid" hired a white one, and later thought it would be cool to add a cultural element of an African Goddess later.

But I do know one thing about Cirque, they hire for the skills they want first, suitability for characters is second. They will often hire gymnasts and circus artists with specific skill sets before they have even invented a character for them or even a show for them to slot into.

Lastly, while I am not advocating the selection of a white person over a black person for a black role I just wanted to ask why is it necessarily being racist for a white person to play a black character, especially if the cultural behaviours are well researched and acted out respectfully? I mean I don't see circus performers any differently to other performing arts performers like dancers or actors or singers. Theatre actors play the role of all kinds of different people and cultures, no one ever says that it is off limits for them to play different characters. Same with dancers.

I've been a dancer for the last 10 years and dancers learn and perform all kinds of different styles and cultures of dance, and I think it's great that we can draw on so many different cultures and styles to do so. I don't think anyone is about to tell someone they can't perform a particular ballet because they don't have the particualr cultural roots of that ballet. And so the same with circus. I just see that it borrows from many different cultures in all the aspects it represents, from the many and diverse types of acts and apparatus there are from all different cultures around the world. Cirque's many and varied characters are also the same. They are not afraid to borrow from other cultures to tell a story. That should not have to mean that that person must be from that background to play thst character.

Sent from my SM-G360G using Tapatalk

[Starfrit]

Starfrit your videos may not be working? I was hoping to see videos that were submitted to Cirque that showed the skill set they wanted for their show by a mermaid performer of African decent. I thought that's what happened, that mermaids did send in their videos and still Cirque didn't take that into consideration which would really be unfair.

Why are you even still in this thread if you can't be bothered to fucking read, jesus christ

[merwandering]

To me the fact that those videos don't exist is more unfair.

[Starfrit]

And so the same with circus. I just see that it borrows from many different cultures in all the aspects it represents, from the many and diverse types of acts and apparatus there are from all different cultures around the world. Cirque's many and varied characters are also the same. They are not afraid to borrow from other cultures to tell a story. That should not have to mean that that person must be from that background to play thst character.

.............. literally the whole reason this discussion came up is because a group of white people chose to cast a white person to play the part of an actual African deity. It's not just a "character," they whitewashed a black religious entity and didn't even give people of color a chance to audition. And I don't care how cute you think it is that "we can all just borrow from other cultures to tell stories and that's magical!!!!" What happened here-- and what continues to happen across all forms of the entertainment industry-- is racist and is NOT OKAY. Plain and simple.

How is this so difficult for people to get?

[AniaR]

but I want to suggest that it might have just been Cirque were not aware of other excellent black mers being out there, and chose Hannah simply because she is well known as a mer.

That's their JOB though. they clearly put a lot of thought into it, they hired other black actresses and performers, did a lot of African inspired stuff, and Circ is sort of known (especially here in Canada) for being multicultural. it's not Hannah's fault that it all happened. She was ignorant, what's done is done. But circ knows better lol. Don't excuse it for them, trust me.

And really these issue at this point and in this entire thread isnt about arguing over the details about circ and hannah though so many keep deflecting it. It was the response Hannah gave when Black mers addressed it with her, that prompted MANY merfolk of colour to finally take a stand an address some of the racial issues in this whole community.


So perhaps what we need to focus on is promoting the diversity of the Mer world to the wider population, and make mers of colour just as famous as Hanah is. I aknowledge there is obviously predujice against Mers of colour, as pointed out by Mermaid Momo's excellent video. I think though we have to a knowledge the historical aspects of Mermaids and Mermaid culture before we go and assume someone is being racist by wanting a white Mermaid over a Mermaid of colour.

The fact is, as this thead demonstrates, is people have BUILT IN biases. They clearly don't understand they are being racist or exclusinoary. This is a phenomnen specifically in the peformer world that has been studied. the excuse of "well no one of colour fit the role" it literally the blanket excuse for all white washing. So we have to stop giving people the benefit of the doubt because that in this case, has NEVER worked. We had black folks boycotting the oscars this year. It's time to start calling it what it is and not dance around it anymore. I appreciate your attempt at a doplomatic and fair approach but the situation isn't fair at all. So we need an approach weighted toward helping the victims.


Lastly, while I am not advocating the selection of a white person over a black person for a black role I just wanted to ask why is it necessarily being racist for a white person to play a black character, especially if the cultural behaviours are well researched and acted out respectfully?

Honestly, everything. There are so few minority characters and roles as is, there's simply no need for a white person to take them.

Here's a few helpful articles

Common defenses of whitewashing, and why they are BS
http://www.pajiba.com/think_pieces/common-defenses-of-whitewashing-and-why-they-are-bullshit.php


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XebG4TO_xss

http://www.livemaguk.com/why-is-whitewashing-bad/

http://www.upworthy.com/this-comic-breaks-down-the-problem-with-whitewashing-race

http://i.upworthy.com/nugget/5786807914b467002b000098/attachments/jpg-1a004743d9c8c4b89f6911f6d1f0850d.jpg

http://i.upworthy.com/nugget/578680852c49c0002e0000b3/attachments/jpg-e1bc84e8ebf280dc118930e0aaf37a6b.jpg

http://i.upworthy.com/nugget/5786808d2c49c000310000a0/attachments/jpg-fe2c0506e74ae66ce463f2e309f14ede.jpg

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/29/movies/asian-american-actors-are-fighting-for-visibility-they-will-not-be-ignored.html?_r=0

http://screenrant.com/worst-examples-whitewashing-movies/?view=all


http://sites.psu.edu/christiercl/2014/03/20/the-problem-with-whitewashing/

http://www.geekquality.com/hollywood-whitewashing/


Lastly,


They are not afraid to borrow from other cultures to tell a story. That should not have to mean that that person must be from that background to play thst character.

there is a huge difference between cultural exchange, and flat out stealing from a culture. Yemayah represented African diaspora. It's like taking Gandi and making him white. Taking Martin LK Jr and making him White. You are taking someone who is a HUGE symbol for their race, and making them white. It's not even a matter of a generic character or something. She is literally a goddess and represents the black struggle. IT'S INSULTING and hurtful!

I'm not trying to argue you with you, I can see you're genuinely trying to understand, but you like many of us white folks just have these inherent biases of "what's the big deal" when blacks are dying in the streets telling us over and over again, this is a BIG deal

i feel like we're going in circles/

[AniaR]

Starting off with a biggie—the Hollywood equivalent of “I don’t see color.” Which is great for you, really. How nice to live in that world where a person’s race is unimportant. The rest of us do not live in that world. The rest of us live in a world where the movie industry has been run since its inception by a bunch of white guys—white guys who valued whiteness—a result of which is that the diversity of the real world is not represented in film. (http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/aug/05/hollywood-fails-to-represent-ethnic-diversity-study-usc) The fact that you don’t see race as having an effect on how people are treated in the industry doesn’t mean the effect is not there.But hey, I get it. Headshots cross your desk, you audition some people, you cast the best ones. But to assume that the reason the majority of actors up for any given role are white is just a coincidence—that it has nothing to do with a fundamental equality problem in Hollywood—is disingenuous and complicit with the larger problem. What you’re essentially saying when you just accept that “well, most of the good actors are white” is that white people are better actors than people of other races. And it sounds stupid when you put it like that, huh? There are good actors of color out there, doing good work and making a living, and there would be more if studios would put a smidge more effort into finding talented actors of color who are being passed over in favor white actors with a little bit of name recognition. Hollywood, you have a diversity problem, and nobody’s going to fix it but you.

^ this

[MermaidNerenia]

This was an exceptionally tacky choice from Cirque and it's unfortunate. Hannah should have never been cast in this, this was not a role she should have ever been portraying. It's insulting and completely unbelievable that they didn't see all the things wrong with it when they cast her.

It's a big deal the reasons why they did this, it's also a big deal that they don't see anything wrong with what they did which underscores an even more massive issue.

The video of this shows that there were many many many other parts of this performance that a lot of thought, care and respect was put into, this wasn't one of them.

It's sad but this changes the way I see Cirque, I don't think that's a company I want to give my money to see shows from, that either is blatantly ignorant about parts of their own shows, or refuses to acknowledge whitewashing at it worst.

[MermaidBonnie]

Now I see! Cirque didn't even accept audition videos from others. That's what I didn't understand. Maybe they will from now on. As for Mermania, I'm considering coming and bringing with me my UW photographer Ziggy who is African American and is a certified diver that I have been exclusively working with since last spring. He is a part of my Music City Mermaid company and my avatar alone shows yall his talent. He has all the right equipment, is a hard worker, fun to be around, and just radiates talent! Since you are doing a panel there about mermaids of color, maybe he could be a part of that as a photographer that lives in the Deep South? He and I had an amazing convo about his experiences while in Key Largo during our shoot. He could also do uw portraits for a commission of course. Would my company need to rent a spot for him? Let me know the prices. If the schedule works out, this could be a great opportunity for him and for yall to work with him. If this inquiry is on the wrong thread please let me know.

[AniaR]

We already have photographers who have exclusivity with the event for underwater portraits and sessions.

if your friend would like to speak on the "mers of colour" panel, they'll need to send a proposal to the panel organizer (Daphne Clem) like everyone else. Though the focus is on the mermaid community.

You can contact the NC Mermania page for further discussion and submitting proposals

[Hydro Aqualarin]

You are so right Mermaid Momo. That sucks that we live in a world that has race problems. Humans are the only ones that do that. We dont see dogs like a yellow lab and a black lab hate or see them selves and different from each other for the color of there fur. There are many kinds of dogs, cats and other animals of the same kind of size and color but no hate there. I am a Hispanic, Latino, native american and white person but to me I am just a merman my race is merfolk not Hispanic, Latino native american and white. To me I think merfolks are just merfolks one race only. So we as merfolks need to stick together for are community because if we keep on bickering with each other of are human side of are race we lose the honor and beauty of what it means to be a merfolk. Dont disgrace are merfolk community by human hate and negativity of human people. Merfolks rule.

[merwandering]

That inspires me to begin, when filling out paperwork any time it asks my race, writing in "mermaid"....

[AniaR]

relevant:

https://mic.com/articles/150173/constance-wu-just-shut-down-any-arguments-for-casting-matt-damon-in-the-great-wall?utm_source=policymicFB&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=Butterfly#.6dhMN3h3M

Matt Damon cast in film about the great wall of China. -_- there's more asians in the world than whites. Tell me again how they couldnt find a chinese actor...

[merwandering]

Makes me cringe how true this is-but true nonetheless. How can we do better? Here's a start. YOU be the one to speak up. If you don't realize you have privilege, do some research. Once you know, you be the voice, every chance you get.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wf9QBnPK6Yg

[Lucinda]

relevant:

https://mic.com/articles/150173/constance-wu-just-shut-down-any-arguments-for-casting-matt-damon-in-the-great-wall?utm_source=policymicFB&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=Butterfly#.6dhMN3h3M

Matt Damon cast in film about the great wall of China. -_- there's more asians in the world than whites. Tell me again how they couldnt find a chinese actor...

I have similar qualms about a film I saw a few years back called "The Forbidden Kingdom". At first I thought it sounded cool: Jackie Chan and Jet Li in a movie set mostly in in a fantasy version of ancient China. How awesome! Then to my disappointment I realised, while actually watching it, that it was about this white dude in modern-day America who gets whisked away to said fantasy ancient China and has to rescue it (with Chan portraying his mentor and Li as the main antagonist). I could have sworn I read somewhere that the film was originally supposed to be about a Chinese-American kid who learns more about his heritage and gets to save that fantasy land. If that's true, why didn't they stick to that? Seeing the Mighty Whitey cliché in action again really ruined an otherwise very enjoyable film for me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Forbidden_Kingdom

[Mermaid Lilium]

Let's not forget the travesty of the casting for the Ghost In The Shell live action movie

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

[MermaidBonnie]

Thanks for letting me know about the MerMania protocol. Also I like that idea, to write in mermaid as a race lol.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

I'm paler than the average member of the Cullen family, but I do think the mer-community has some diversity issues to work on. I remember mentioning to a friend a few years ago how the three most famous professional mers(Hannah, Melissa, and Linden) were all conventionally attractive, thin, white blondes, and how I'd like to see more diversity. This is something I have personally always kept in mind when writing my fiction and when I do stuff like the Birthstone Mermaids I made with a dollmaker. There's simply no good reason why merfolk, or any other fantasy creature like fairies, centaurs, whatever, have to all be caucasian. In my FictionPress series, both the heroine's love interest is Latino, her best mermaid friends are Latino and part-Japanese, and her best human friend is black, plus I fairly recently did a new revised edition where I "retconned" the aforementioned part-Japanese mermaid to also be transgendered(she was born biologically male, but was transformed to the female she felt she was inside upon request by the goddess of the sea) and a couple other character's sexual orientations are kind of ambiguous too and I also changed some of the wording to be more inclusive of different body types too, and when I made my Birthstone Mermaids virtual dolls, I tried to make about half of them mermaids of color, I would've included more body diversity too, but the dollmaker only had one body type unfortunately. Looking back, I know I could've made even more diversity in my series, such as more dark-skinned mers and maybe more LGBT and disabled inclusion too, but at least I tried. I encourage anyone here who's a writer, or an artist, or whatever, to try your best to include diversity in your work. Like, if you're writing about or drawing a trio of mermaids, try not to make them all white. It's such a simple thing to do but it could have a positive impact on the self-esteem of people reading your story or looking at your art to see magical creatures who look like themselves depicted.

Someone up-thread mentioned the Frozen show at Disney California Adventure's color-blind casting, which I personally was all for. I don't care what color Elsa's skin is as long as she can knock "Let It Go" out of the park ;)!

[Princess Kae-Leah]

I LOVE Hannah, but I can totally understand how casting her as an African goddess is super-problematic. What's done is done now, but I hope and the circ learn from the criticism they got. There are so many different mer-goddesses in mythology all over the world that would've been a much better "match" for her to play, and considering what that goddess represents, I can see how it could be hurtful.

[Mermaid Momo]

Hello hello, I am back again to ruffle more jimmies! I'm bringing this thread back from the dead for multiple reasons, the main one being that since I was quiet on the forum multiple instances of natural hair being banned has occured (that one is for all you "It's just hair " people). Secondly because a community member has showed her transphobic behind because she was so angry that people were speaking out on appropriation (I have been asked to post the interaction between the mer and question and the merman she interacted with.)

I would preface this with: It's okay to realize that in the past you may have done something racist, transphobic, homophobic, or appropriative. What isn't okay is refusing to learn and listen to the groups telling you how you can stop being those things and instead take it upon yourself to tell THEM aka the opressed group, how they should feel about being opressed. It's like telling the caged bird how to feel about being in the cage.

Since I've been in my cave:

Courts ruled it legal to discriminate against dreads in the workplace: Link (http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2016/09/dreadlock-ban-isnt-discrimination-court-rejects-govt-claim-racial-distinctions-natural-texture-black-non-black-hair/) Link (http://www.essence.com/2016/09/20/judge-ban-dreadlocks-workplace-discrimination)
Kentucky school bans black hairstyles. Link (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-school-natural-hairstyle-ban-condemns-black-culture-article-1.2730091) (after protests from parents and students the ban was lifted in August of this year)
South African school bans afros because they are "untidy": Link (http://qz.com/768877/a-south-african-high-school-has-banned-girls-from-afros-and-natural-hairstyles-because-they-are-untidy/)

Happened before I went into my cave, but I'm trying to add something that is about other cultures too and being native this is one I remember the most from when it was first published: Boy sent home from school for traditional hairstyle: link (http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/native-american-child-sent-home-by-utah-school-for-wearing-traditional-mohawk-hairstyle/)

Now I'm sure more has happened since I've been in my cave, but I also was very inactive on the internet period because was busy with my mid life crisis. But anyways onto the other section of this post:

Now I and the other mers knew we would rustle jimmies with our videos, but we still chose to speak out because even if you don't see it these things negatively affect us. Most of the community took in the videos with open arms, others attempted to argue with us. This is an example of the latter. I was also contacted by this mermaid via instagram but I'm posting on my laptop and the screenshots of the convo are on my phone.(I'll post screenshots of it if you want to see them, my convo with her wasn't as rude as this one below.)

1) The transaction started with a post she made to her personal account where 2 mers of color commented. One native, the other African American/black. (names blocked out except mer I have permission from)
39316

The problem with this post: Mocking of people protecting their cultures, insensitive.

2) JV blocked the mermaid after he commented and she then PM'd him. While this could have been a perfect time for the mer to learn more and apologize for being insensitive instead she didn't.
39317

What's wrong with the message: Instead of saying sorry for offending she sent a message that basically read as " I'm not sorry for what I said, I'm sorry YOU took offense to what I said and I have the right to say what is and isn't appropriation."

3) After blocking her, JV got a message on they're instagram. Some background here: JV is bigender, he goes mostly by male pronouns but not always and loves makeup (and is bomb at it too).
39318

What's wrong with this: Transphobic! Wearing makeup is appropriating women??? What? since when? Not only that but sending him this link reeks of "you aren't a REAL woman" to me. Who's to say the person wearing the makeup doesn't identify as a woman? Or just likes makeup?

JV made a video discussing this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_fROex-5LM

Why did this need to be put out there? It is NEVER okay to confront someone with transphobic and homophobic things just because you're wearing the shoe that multiple videos by mers of color laced up! If you find yourself doing any of the things that were mentioned in one of the many videos when is it okay to throw a hissy fit at the mer who's trying to make sure a community they love is welcoming to them and others like them?

I shared this and was asked to share because it illustrates part of the problem with the community, people have come forth trying to make the community welcoming but instead we get things like this, belittled and attacked because we tell someone that they stepped on our feet and need to say sorry and not step on our feet again.

This is unacceptable, I wanted nothing but a community that mers of color weren't afraid to come into because of microagressions they seen against their race on the forum. If you want to help make the community more inclusive, try to talk to other mers who're making it a hostile environment for those who are already afraid of being chastised by non mers and larger society. I have been using the tag #inclusiveforeverymer to make posts on various social media showing inclusive merfolk, You are more than welcome to join me!

[Dancing Fish]

I'm glad you included the links. I think a lot of the resistance comes from folks seeing and genuinely appreciating aspects of other cultures, without realizing that the folks from those cultures are still being punished for expressing their own culture. Not just ridiculed (which is bad enough), but threatened with job loss and potentially denied an education.It's all right there in the links. Yes, we can and should appreciate other cultures. So wouldn't it be more productive to show our appreciation by encouraging acceptance of those cultures by building up and standing up for their members, rather than jumping in and taking the sparkly bits for ourselves? (Or posting passive aggressive hyperbole.)

Yes there's room for discussion, but perhaps one shouldn't jump into that discussion until they at least acknowledge the problem first.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

Whoa...I'm very disappointed in this mer :( She's someone I've always respected, but wow...that's some ignorance there

[AniaR]

that is really confusing. Didnt she tell you that you were appropriating because of a princess jasmine costume? So why is she complaining about the appropriation police if she's been acting like it.

Gender is fluid, a spectrum. Therefor it can't be appropriated.

I'll try to put aside my personal experiences/ opinions

[Princess Kae-Leah]

Yeah I'll try to put aside my personal experiences too, because I've personally had good experiences with this mer in the past tbh...but that doesn't justify her hurtful ignorance here.

[Mermaid Momo]

Forgot to reply to this ^ Yeah it was hard for me too, some of these mers that I have talked about in this thread I looked up to quite a lot and it really felt like a knife in the heart when basically they said they don't really care about hurting people like me.

At some point we all had to learn something, even I would say homophobic , fatphobic, and ableist things but I learned and I wanted to better myself and I wanted to make sure that I never contributed personally to bringing someone else down for whatever reason, and other people can unlearn these behaviors too but only if they want to.

Me calling you out (for the mers I've called out if they are still reading or any mers I may call out in the future) isn't me condemning you to hell, it's not me saying I hate you with a passion and you're scum of the earth, it's me plain and simple calling out your problematic behavior in the hopes that you'll change. Much in the same way I can say and apple pie has too much salt but that doesn't mean I hate apple pie forever, it just means take out some of the salt and maybe it'll taste better.

[AniaR]

Haha our mer community doesnt work that way, TRUST ME MOMO I KNOW lol you simply can't point out something that's incorrect without people believing you are now trying to ruin their life lol

[shimmygoddess]

Haha our mer community doesnt work that way, TRUST ME MOMO I KNOW lol you simply can't point out something that's incorrect without people believing you are now trying to ruin their life lol

ain't that the damn truth..LOL :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Mermaid Momo]

Coming back to this thread years later and i am amazed and proud of how the community has changed since then. People are speaking up about things now when they see it and most mers have no tolerance for others who do or say problematic things.

The community still has some tough spots to smoothen over but I'm excited to see where it'll go from here. Thank you everyone ego listened to those of us who are minorities and standing with us.

Sent from my [device_name] using MerNetwork mobile app

[xaccer2]

Лебе (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/1865)

[xaccer2]

1037 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/653)

[xaccer2]

поло (http://eyesvision.ru/physics/21)

[xaccer2]

Bett (http://eyesvisions.com/better-eyesight-magazine-better-eyesight-1930-02)

[xaccer2]

Kath (http://factoringfee.ru/t/664553)

[xaccer2]

Sund (http://filmzones.ru/t/167575)

[xaccer2]

Коки (http://gadwall.ru/t/279948)

[xaccer2]

Micr (http://gaffertape.ru/t/391506)

[xaccer2]

Сара (http://gageboard.ru/t/478823)

[xaccer2]

Стат (http://gagrule.ru/t/266552)

[xaccer2]

Икба (http://gallduct.ru/t/673324)

[xaccer2]

PJ85 (http://galvanometric.ru/t/350339)

[xaccer2]

�рти (http://gangforeman.ru/t/144174)

[xaccer2]

Prin (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/179843)

[xaccer2]

Jack (http://garbagechute.ru/t/851116)

[xaccer2]

ручк (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/143364)