Silicone tail individual scales question, and lots of other questions about adhering

[jamminhippie06]

I am thinking that I want to go ahead and attempt a silicone tail on my own, but I am not sure which route to take!

I love how neoprene tails swim but I like the look of silicone. I am in love with the Malia scales (large, individual scales) that Kariel makes, but want those silicone scales on a neoprene body. Would I be able to make the scales individually out of silicone and then glue them to the neoprene with silicone, or would that cause the neoprene to not stretch as much anymore?

Would a better option be to lay down my sheets of neoprene first and then pour a layer of silicone on top of the neoprene to have silicone to adhere to?

Also, if I made this type of tail fully out of silicone, would I just pour silicone sheets then cut the shapes out of that and then glue the two sheets together with silicone and then add the scales individually and use silicone to glue them on?

And one more question about neoprene itself, what is the difference between the dive fabric that returns to its original size? I am having trouble with finding them separately on the Internet and distinguishing the two.


Any help would be greatly appreciated!



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[jamminhippie06]

Oh and if anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about here's a pic of my dream tail http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160911/a821fa8a90ed65f91d2f106c9750a603.jpg


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[merwandering]

I saw a tail like the one you are describing recently, though it was latex, not silicone, and the owner said she was having problems with the latex, so- I have no idea on what silicone does to neoprene, or if it effects curing, etc- but WOW it was a great tail!!!! The scales were perfect and it was soooooo much more lightweight than a full silicone. I wish I could help, but encourage you to try it!!!!!! I also wanted to (but got realistic about the multiple other large projects I'm already working on, and the fact that I should, ya know....FINISH them, lol)
good luck!!!! Can't wait to see it!!!!

[Dancing Fish]

You'll probably lose a lot of stretch putting silicone on neoprene, but it can be done. When you layer silicone scales over super-stretchy powermesh, you lose most of the stretch. Silicone sticks to neoprene somewhat; enough that it won't come off unless you try to peel it off. I'm pretty sure that's what "partial silicone" tails are, thin silicone sheets covering neoprene.

Also, WOW Kariel does some gorgeous work!!

To answer your other question, you should jsut make your neoprene body, stuff it, and glue the silicone scales directly to it with more silicone. Adding a prep layer of silicone won't do anything for you except make your tail heavier.

[Mermaid_Izzy]

It might actually help to start with a powermesh base (or sew it to a neoprene base) to adhere your silicone scales to. To do that you just paint a little silicone to the back the scale and the place it on the power mesh. The small holes on the power mesh will allow the silicone to go through and bond to itself. A lot of tail makers use it to make the bonding between silicone layers stronger...

I read an instructable by Rouge Siren and she makes her individual scaled tails with a powermesh base, but I plan on pouring a layer of silicone and making it to my body shape, then laying powermesh over it (to help it bond) and then putting my individual scales on there.

I am making my scales from molds, but you have to make sure you make multiply scale molds so it doesn't take forever for the silicone to dry for just one scale...

I hope this helps. This is just an idea I came up with as I was reading your post...


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[jamminhippie06]

Thank you so much for your help! I am so excited to tackle this project. I hope you post photos of your progress!


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[jamminhippie06]

Oh my you sound like me! Starting thousands of projects that are going to take weeks and weeks, thinking I can finish them in a couple hours!

Thank you for your help!


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[jamminhippie06]

It might actually help to start with a powermesh base (or sew it to a neoprene base) to adhere your silicone scales to. To do that you just paint a little silicone to the back the scale and the place it on the power mesh. The small holes on the power mesh will allow the silicone to go through and bond to itself. A lot of tail makers use it to make the bonding between silicone layers stronger...

I read an instructable by Rouge Siren and she makes her individual scaled tails with a powermesh base, but I plan on pouring a layer of silicone and making it to my body shape, then laying powermesh over it (to help it bond) and then putting my individual scales on there.

I am making my scales from molds, but you have to make sure you make multiply scale molds so it doesn't take forever for the silicone to dry for just one scale...

I hope this helps. This is just an idea I came up with as I was reading your post...


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So you are going to pour silicone sheets and then just cut it like fabric, and do you glue it together? Or sew it? Full silicone tails seem scary to build, but you made it sound more approachable!


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[Mermaid_Izzy]

So you are going to pour silicone sheets and then just cut it like fabric, and do you glue it together? Or sew it? Full silicone tails seem scary to build, but you made it sound more approachable!


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I am going to make molds for individual scales...(like 50 or so for one size, 40 for the other and so on there are many examples of this on the form of you look through the tail making adventures)

Most people that I see take there scales after they have molded each one and apply silicone to the back of them and them place them directly on the power mesh that they have sewn to fit there body mesurments like a glove.

*it's a really good idea though to make a duck tape dummy or mold of your body first so you can have something to put you power "skeleton" on.*


The silicone will act as a glue itself, but like most glues you need to use a pin to secure it into place while it dries

If you need help understanding my terminology look at the other tailmakinf threads and watch some YouTube videos and it will start making sense of you can just ask me...

I have planned on pouring out a thin layer of silicone (less than 1/4 an inch) and then fitting it to my mesurments over the ducktape dummy. Once I do that I will lay a layer of of powermesh down and then put my scales on....

So the layers would be:

Scales
Powermesh
Thin Silicone layer



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[PearlieMae]

That thin layer of silicone is unnecessary and is just going to add weight to your tail. Make a packing tape dummy (duct tape adhesive can inhibit silicone curing sometimes), cover it with powermesh and adhere your scales to that with more silicone. Once you're done with that, turn the tail body inside out and coat it with silicone to seal the whole thing, 1. To secure everything, and 2. To seal all the spaces where mold could grow.

Kariel and Rogue Siren both use the "Pearlie Method".

Good luck!

[Mermaid_Izzy]

That thin layer of silicone is unnecessary and is just going to add weight to your tail. Make a packing tape dummy (duct tape adhesive can inhibit silicone curing sometimes), cover it with powermesh and adhere your scales to that with more silicone. Once you're done with that, turn the tail body inside out and coat it with silicone to seal the whole thing, 1. To secure everything, and 2. To seal all the spaces where mold could grow.

Kariel and Rogue Siren both use the "Pearlie Method".

Good luck!

I wanted to make my tail thicker to help hide my knees (like Mermaid Linden)and I had planned on attaching the fluke first and then scaling it. I just don't see how to scale over the fluke and put them under the other scales at the same time then turn It inside out...

Thanks for your advice though PealieMae


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[Mermaid Fenicia]

I used Pearlie's method too and made the body first and attached my fluke later ;) http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?13748-working-with-(for-me)-me-materials-(pic-heavy) ;)

[PearlieMae]

I'm not sure about the attaching the fluke first idea...it's not making any sense to me. Too many tweaks happen to the tail body before you get to that point, but hey I could be wrong. This will be an interesting build to follow.

[Mermaid_Izzy]

I'm not sure about the attaching the fluke first idea...it's not making any sense to me. Too many tweaks happen to the tail body before you get to that point, but hey I could be wrong. This will be an interesting build to follow.

I might just attach it last then, lol...but my thread is different from this one...


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[Mermaid_Izzy]

Hey PearlieMae, do you mind if I ask you a question? I planned on pigmaneting my scales and then airbrushing the tail with pigmented thinned silicone and I see people talking about having to seal it afterwards…would my method work or how work you seal it? I was going off of what Jaz said to use to paint it (thinning it with Napatha or Toulene)...and I haven't seen any place mention a sealer...

(sorry if I am taking over the thread)

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[Mermaid Fenicia]

you don't need to seal dragonskin as there isn't anything to seal it but clear (+ glittered) dragonskin ;)

[Mermaid_Izzy]

you don't need to seal dragonskin as there isn't anything to seal it but clear (+ glittered) dragonskin ;)

Thanks...I thought so but they kept confusing me...lol


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[PearlieMae]

I don't airbrush my tails at all, but I do seal my tails with a topcoat of silicone, just to make sure all the little gaps are closed so no mold can get a toehold inside the tail.

[jamminhippie06]

That thin layer of silicone is unnecessary and is just going to add weight to your tail. Make a packing tape dummy (duct tape adhesive can inhibit silicone curing sometimes), cover it with powermesh and adhere your scales to that with more silicone. Once you're done with that, turn the tail body inside out and coat it with silicone to seal the whole thing, 1. To secure everything, and 2. To seal all the spaces where mold could grow.

Kariel and Rogue Siren both use the "Pearlie Method".

Good luck!

PearlieMae, so I don't need the neoprene at all it sounds like, when you coat the inside of the tail body with the silicone, it does not make the scales stick down and not liftable? And when you put the silicone on the inside of the body, are you brushing it on or pouring?


Also, you mentioned not airbrushing your tails, are you only using pigmented silicone then?

Thank you for all your help!



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[PearlieMae]

Nope, you don't need neoprene, powermesh is enough to use as a base.

I seal all my scales down so they are not liftable. Less places for dirt and mold to hide, and I brush on the silicone - both inside and topcoat.

And yes, I only use pigmented silicone. :mermaid kiss: