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lasserine
02-29-2012, 06:48 PM
Can you scuba dive wearing a silicone tail, like 60ft or so down? I'm sure the silicone will stretch enough for the wetsuit.

Just unsure how it would do at those depths. I only saw them on the surface.

Mermaid Saphira
02-29-2012, 06:51 PM
Hannah Fraser and Linden W. Use their tails to free dive, I am not sure how deep they are eligable to go but they do use them. Otterbay swimsuits sells tails that you can scauba dive in

Aradia
02-29-2012, 07:35 PM
Freediving and Scuba diving are two very different things, I would say silicone tails for freediving would be fine but I wouldn't take a tail scuba diving. I'm assuming you meant freediving?

lasserine
02-29-2012, 08:21 PM
Scuba diving. With a tank underwater for a length of time.

Mermaid Saphira
02-29-2012, 08:24 PM
Uh...I dont believe that you can do that with a tail. I suggest using an otterbay mermaid suit, they are for scuba diving

lasserine
02-29-2012, 08:42 PM
Uh...I dont believe that you can do that with a tail. I suggest using an otterbay mermaid suit, they are for scuba diving

I am crazy enough to try it. :D

Odette
03-01-2012, 03:31 AM
my scuba instructor had no problem with the idea, but go ask a scuba store next time you pass. thats a good question. the tank gets in the way of the dolphin kick, ill tell ya that.

Aradia
03-01-2012, 04:02 AM
Alright time for my little rant,

Scuba diving is a fairly dangerous hobby - in the last six months two divers have died in the same state that I live in and I saw a man die when I actually was on my Open Water certification, so please do try and take the safety aspect seriously.

I have scuba dived (in about 2m of water) with a monofin on and I would not try it again. You can't really dolphin kick properly with the tank on and also using your monofin to propel you is clumsy and doesn't maintain good buoyancy. This is just with the monofin, not the full tail. With the full tail if you have ANY problem at depth you need to be able to get yourself or your buddy to the surface which using a tail could prohibit. This is super important when dealing with the safety of a buddy because in a tail your ability to turn (with a tank on) is completely encumbered. I have once dived with a tail on which was in 1m of water with a whooole bunch of people and easy out of water access, this was just with a fabric tail which is much easier to take on and off than a silicone one. It very difficult once a BCD is inflated to turn onto your back to surface swim which is important if you're out in the ocean and boats can't get to you.

Also should you get in some kind of problem where you need to ditch the tail it would take time and effort to get the tail off completly and get down to the monofin to release your feet. Since time can be a factor, I wouldn't advise it. But essentially with diving you need to be able to get out of your gear quickly and the tail doesn't really allow it.

I think scuba diving with a tail would be very risky and I think its a really, really bad idea.

Aradia
03-01-2012, 04:22 AM
So I quickly looked up the Otter Bay mermaid suits,

http://www.otterbaysuits.com/Videos/OtterbayMermaid.mpg

Safety Concern 1:
Note how she kneels on the sand to take a look at something under a ledge, that is improper buoyancy and a really dumb way to dive. If you don't have proper buoyancy and you're on a reef than the likelihood is that you'll be destroying coral and critters. I say its a safety concern because a friend of mine kneeled down once and manage to go straight on a numbray so he got an electric shock. That was rather amusing but it would've been a lot less amusing if it had been on a hidden blue ringed octopus.

Safety Concern 2:
From that video the diver is missing a key piece of equipment which is a BCD, i'm not sure how she will manage to float on the surface without one. Also on the surface without a BCD she'd have to support herself + her tank + the weights just by repeatedly dolphin kicking. If the boat isn't there, if the current carried you off, if you got disoriented this would be a big problem.

Safety Concern 3:
With the lack of BCD the diver also has stored her Occy (secondary regulator) and Console behind her back. Your occy should be within a triangle on the front of your body, the triangle being from the reg in your mouth to either side of your chest. If your buddy has an issue with their regulator and panicks then it is likely they'll reach for ANY air source which could be the one you're breathing. So you NEED the secondary one to be on hand.

Mermaid Lorelei
03-01-2012, 01:05 PM
Personally, I think it is a horrible idea to scuba dive with a tail, even a monofin.

lasserine
03-01-2012, 01:36 PM
With the safety concerns listed, I won't even try to swim with one.

taom
03-01-2012, 02:28 PM
@lasserine Silicone tails are safe to swim in. You just need to be a strong swimmer and not use it for deep diving or scuba.

lasserine
03-01-2012, 03:12 PM
hehe sorry, meant scuba diving with one.

Mermaid Marla
03-01-2012, 05:22 PM
Aradia... I couldn't have said it better! I have played around just trying to do the dolphin kick with my tank (with regular fins) and it is nearly impossible and very clumsy. I would be scared to death if I had my tail on and something went wrong. Although the idea seems like it would be cool to do, safety wise it would be a nightmare. I had entertained the thought of maybe buddy-breathing along side my hubby but then thought, if my tail isn't weighted I could pop up during the ascent and then I would be in big trouble! Unfortunately the two just don't lend themselves to being done together.... unless you have a crew of scuba divers around you like Hannah does when she does her deeper free-dives and buddy breaths occasionally to stay down for her photos and videos. But that is really dangerous also and I'm sure she uses all precautions necessary to do so...

Mermaid Lorelei
03-01-2012, 06:29 PM
She's also a trained professional. O.O

Aradia
03-03-2012, 01:35 AM
Yeah, but they freedive instead of scuba. With scuba the golden rule is: keep breathing at a normal, consistant rate and thats pretty much the opposite with freediving.
I mean, when you breathe air at depth you have a whole bunch of different problems than you do breathing on the surface such as nitrogen building up in your bloodstream and compression at depth. If you were trying to swim and somehow broke the surface from the deep (which I have seen done) you could run the risk of the bends and in one case I heard of a collapsed lung.

Maple
03-03-2012, 03:03 AM
This is a great thread! There is so much great information here.

Done safely, scuba is amazing. I adore it to pieces. But I do shallow dives with dive masters nearby. Monofins just would not work - they were designed specifically for freediving.

I think snuba would work better with a monofin/tail.

lasserine
03-03-2012, 03:00 PM
I am sure going from the monofin to normal fins will take a little bit to readjust.

green52
03-04-2012, 04:40 PM
Diving with a tail sounds like it has its risks, but the same can be said for night diving, cold water diving, cave diving, deep water diving, NITROX...

It would be foolish to attempt it without proper consideration of the risks, however if you have enough experience, I think its possible. Start with planning, then practice in a pool with a capable buddy. I'd make a tail with a zipper up the side, and a long pull tab. Practice unzipping it with a mask on, simulate cutting it up the middle with a dive knife, and learn how it affects your mobility. Ask instructors at your local dive shop for advice, and proceed very slowly before even considering open water.

green52
03-04-2012, 04:41 PM
That was supposed to say, "then with your mask off,"...

Coradion
03-16-2012, 01:28 AM
I wouldn't do it. All the reasons Aradia gave are sound. It's just not a good plan.

Gem Stone
03-16-2012, 01:57 PM
I am also a scuba diver and I don't think diving in a tail is worth the risk. It might work, but the risks are too high in my opinion. If something went wrong, you might have to cut off your tail or leave it down in the water. Is it worth possibly loosing your tail forever? I can see possibly taking a breath off someone else, but only if it's one and you aren't too deep. Any more of depth or breathing and the nitrogen could become an issue. I have buddy breathed in a tail before in an eight foot pool, and I can say from expirence that it's weird and almost uncomfortable to breath off of someone else and after a while you have to come up for fresh air anyway. It can, however, be beneficial to help stay down longer, but I'd rather just learn how to hold my breath longer. The otter bay suits look cool, but the boyuncy is definately an issue. If you touch something under water, chances are it will hurt you. So having to put your knees down to look at something is not a good habit to have. But if anyone really wants to try scuba diving in a tail IN SHALLOW WATERS (I cannot stress that enough) there is a type of bc that is like a circle around your head and straps in the back. The tank is in front of you making dolphin kicking easier but they are hard to come by the last time I checked. The tank is, however, smaller than a normal one and can only hold so much air. The bc is clumsy on the surface but once you're under it's fine. Again, I strongly suggest not doing it.

green52
03-21-2012, 03:17 AM
I still think that this is doable. I think the general concern is very well placed: anything outside of standard equipment and training should be approached with extreme caution. However, most of the concerns are inspecific.

I brought this up recently over dinner with some other divers, and they were rather blase about it. Without any leading on my part, their first responses were that so long as it was carried out by an experienced diver with caution, it shouldn't really be more dangerous than diving with a monofin. I pointed out that a monofin would be easier to get off, and they responded that a properly designed tail could be easily removed, and then added that they had trouble envisioning a situation in which immediate removal would pose a dire safety issue.

Again, I would approach it with more trepidation than they would, however that might be because I don't have as many dives as them. Anyway, I think its doable.

Capt Nemo
03-31-2012, 12:30 AM
Comments in quote.


So I quickly looked up the Otter Bay mermaid suits,

http://www.otterbaysuits.com/Videos/OtterbayMermaid.mpg

Safety Concern 1:
Note how she kneels on the sand to take a look at something under a ledge, that is improper buoyancy and a really dumb way to dive. If you don't have proper buoyancy and you're on a reef than the likelihood is that you'll be destroying coral and critters. I say its a safety concern because a friend of mine kneeled down once and manage to go straight on a numbray so he got an electric shock. That was rather amusing but it would've been a lot less amusing if it had been on a hidden blue ringed octopus.

Being on the sand bottom is not considered improper buoyancy! She only needs enough weight to counteract the wetsuit at depth, and if she decended on a line, she probably dropped a belt there to be picked up for ascent. Remember, as she decends, her suit will be less buoyant and will need less weight to stay neutral.

Safety Concern 2:
From that video the diver is missing a key piece of equipment which is a BCD, i'm not sure how she will manage to float on the surface without one. Also on the surface without a BCD she'd have to support herself + her tank + the weights just by repeatedly dolphin kicking. If the boat isn't there, if the current carried you off, if you got disoriented this would be a big problem.

Not absolutely needed! If there's any surface floatation problem, the weightbelt is to be immediatly dropped!!! If you're certified, you should know that! If after that, the tank gets ditched. With a full 3mm suit, you should have plenty of flotation with ditched gear. BC's started comming out in the late 60's, but before that, none were worn.

Safety Concern 3:
With the lack of BCD the diver also has stored her Occy (secondary regulator) and Console behind her back. Your occy should be within a triangle on the front of your body, the triangle being from the reg in your mouth to either side of your chest. If your buddy has an issue with their regulator and panicks then it is likely they'll reach for ANY air source which could be the one you're breathing. So you NEED the secondary one to be on hand.

Keeping the octo behind you keeps you streamlined and prevents snags. As long as the octo can be easily brought to service, it doesn't really matter where it's stored. With the octo on a contrasting hose and behind you, the chance of loosing your primary diminishes greatly! Most OOA's come from behind! Keeping the octo on the opposite side of your primary helps too! On Hogarthian rigs, the console/pressure gauge is routinely clipped to the backplate to keep it from dangling.

Aradia
04-01-2012, 12:39 PM
All valid points Capt Nemo but I still think the relative risks outweigh the pro's.
I mean, with dropping the weight belt at the line you're assuming you can find your way back to the line. Of course this assumes that your underwater navigation + visibility etc is all fantastic. It also kind of assumes you're happy to lie floating on your back until a boat comes to pick you up which i'd really rather not do if weather turns bad.

I disagree with your opinion on whether having to sit on the sand bottom anytime you want to look at something nor being improper buoyancy, I am a firm believer in hovering. I mean, if you're going to be constantly sitting on the bottom everytime you get tired then you're going to have a heck of a time getting back to the line that contains your weight belt with the bottom stirred up. And sure, you don't NEED a BCD and diving did happen before it started getting used but by that logic you don't NEED dive computers. Nor any advancements but my primary concern is safety so I use all the gear that will make me as safe as possible. I could dive without a working secondary, it has been done before but I am not the safest I can possibly be.

Could a super pro scuba diver complete a dive in a silicone mermaid tail = probably but I don't think its worth the risks :/

green52
07-13-2012, 02:50 PM
I'm still curious about this. I'm tempted to try it myself at some point just so we can get some answers.