HELP w/ Piracy, copycats and Fake tails at the Brazilian Pod

[H-SAMA]

Hi guys. I usually don't post much here and sorry if it's on the wrong area but we don't know what to do anymore to combat piracy.
HELP US!!

Aliexpress is selling fake tails again and because of our economy the Brazilian mermaids all want to buy the fake tails.

We've been explaining and erasing the posts offering the fake tails but
honestly we cannot block every single person in Brazil and even if we do, they might buy themselves at aliexpress.

It's not a new problem here that the Chinese are copying the pictures of Finfolk, Finfun, Mertailor and others.

But I'd like to know how to deal with it. IDEAS?
How did you guys solve the problem before?
How to talk to the young ones that are attacked to cheap prices?
Can you help us report the fake products at aliexpress? (maybe if we cut the source..)


PLUS;
we also had a painter recreating in a very realistic way finfolk's tail of mermaid syrena. How to deal with realistic works of art that recreate tails? Art? Piracy? Idk really and our moderators have mixed feelings... HELP

EDIT : pictures

https://preview.ibb.co/nCKh7a/2017_05_22_13_13_08.png (https://ibb.co/eNdyfv)
https://preview.ibb.co/eA3W0v/2017_05_22_13_15_31.png (https://ibb.co/gqN27a)
https://preview.ibb.co/cswUna/2017_05_22_13_17_22.png (https://ibb.co/gN0B0v)
host gif online (https://imgbb.com/)

[Marinus Mortimer]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170522/1e58017658422730fb5b1deb0b336ffb.jpg


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[AniaR]

unfortunately all you can do is point out why it's better to go with the originals. :( it's becoming a bigger issue as mermaiding blows up. it sucks, I know.

[H-SAMA]

Hi, thank you for the reply Raina. Can you be more specific?
Should we keep erasing the posts? Just talk and try to explain why the originals are better?
Block Sellers? Don't block them? Report at ali? don't report...?

We're lost here merpeople, anything will help!
thank you very much!

[AniaR]

I mean none of that will stop it. Finfolk's designs will stop getting stolen once they take measures that other tail makers have taken to prevent them from being printed out, such as watermarks across the tail, not taking straight on photos etc

[Mermaid Clarity]

Since the onus is unfortunately only on Finfolk to copyright their designs and press charges, you're stuck fighting the very small ground battle. I'm sorry.

Merman Mortimer, I see you and your intense lack of empathy for people who are having their livelihoods stolen have resurfaced. Perhaps you can try being constructive instead of quoting movies next time someone needs help?


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[Marinus Mortimer]

Since the onus is unfortunately only on Finfolk to copyright their designs and press charges, you're stuck fighting the very small ground battle. I'm sorry.

Merman Mortimer, I see you and your intense lack of empathy for people who are having their livelihoods stolen have resurfaced. Perhaps you can try being constructive instead of quoting movies next time someone needs help?


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Selkish we went though this before and everyone already knows that nothing can be done unless like Raina said Finfolk takes proper measures to avoid this by water marking on top of their product and not taking straight on shots of the tails, Im sure The Sisters know this by know they're not amateurs so the fact that they still havent taken the proper measures to stop this they two are partly to blame, if a bank leaves the doors open and security off i would rob that bank, that's basically what Finfolk has done...




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[Mermaid Clarity]

Selkish we went though this before and everyone already knows that nothing can be done unless like Raina said Finfolk takes proper measures to avoid this by water marking on top of their product and not taking straight on shots of the tails, Im sure The Sisters know this by know they're not amateurs so the fact that they still havent taken the proper measures to stop this they two are partly to blame, if a bank leaves the doors open and security off i would rob that bank, that's basically what Finfolk has done...




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However you feel about robbing banks and taking property from other people, it doesn't make your responses constructive on any of the forums that have involved piracy beyond blaming the victims. Not to mention, it comes off kind of incredibly rude and smug. I've seen you do this twice now, hence calling you out.


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[Ashton]

Hey Marinus- I see that you are trying to help and possible explain things, but your execution on doing so coming off as rude. I think you are trying to play the devils advocate, and defend the people who are stealing images that are not theirs and printing them on fabric. The fact is that you are not Finfolk and are not aware of what they are doing on their side with this issue. So please REEL it in.

[Marinus Mortimer]

Im not defending no one i simply don't see anything wrong with the fact that they stole those pictures, plus its great promotion for them, i have peen told i sound rude its never my intention so yeah whatever piracy is always happening to everyone that makes anything im not saying its a good thing but i don't see it as a bad thing either. There are worse things happening everyday and no one bats an eye so don't preach online justice at me cause that wont make a difference and Finfolk products will continue to be taken untill they do something about it...


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[Marinus Mortimer]

Also lets not have the same argument all over again please.

[Mermaid Clarity]

Im not defending no one i simply don't see anything wrong with the fact that they stole those pictures, plus its great promotion for them, i have peen told i sound rude its never my intention so yeah whatever piracy is always happening to everyone that makes anything im not saying its a good thing but i don't see it as a bad thing either. There are worse things happening everyday and no one bats an eye so don't preach online justice at me cause that wont make a difference and Finfolk products will continue to be taken untill they do something about it...


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This is exactly what you said the last thread. We're telling you to learn from the last time you were called out on this and keep the "tough nuts" talk to yourself because it's rude and not constructive. And low key, you used a metaphor commonly used to shame rape victims in your attempt to tell us all how little you personally care about the problem at hand.

Take the note. Or we can keep explaining I to you.


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[Ashton]

On Mernetwork and most of the world it is seen as BAD to STEAL.
And when it comes to ART being taken from the original user/creator, it is considered STEALING when the person takes it and does not give credit to the original creator.

Breaking it down:

Stealing=Bad
Taking art with out crediting the original creator = stealing = bad

[Marinus Mortimer]

1. "Though nuts" i haven't disrespected you so please don't disrespect me. None of this is constructive talking about it wont change a thing.
2. I don't know what metaphor your referring to but Not that is your business i my self an a victim of child rape so i would never "low key" so don't infer anything without knowing anything about me first.
3. I don't care about the robbery of designs or art.
4. You shouldn't waste your time. You can teach a blind man how to see the light.


Again if you saw what my opinions were last time why argue about it again???
I shall quote another movie...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170523/bd2743c0566b7ab2f4af85b56cc91f4f.png
Take the note"

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[Mermaid Clarity]

3. I don't care about the robbery of designs or art.
4. You shouldn't waste your time. You can teach a blind man how to see the light.

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Cool, then you should have no business commenting on a forum about art theft.


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[Marinus Mortimer]

Cool, then you should have no business commenting on a forum about art theft.


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I can comment and say whatever i want, why do you continue to fight i have no intention to argue with you period.


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[Mermaid Clarity]

I can comment and say whatever i want, why do you continue to fight i have no intention to argue with you period.


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Because you might learn something and make the community a better and more constructive place to be. Yknow, one that supports other mermaids and their businesses and protects their own when people are rude, abusive, or just plain mean. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.


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[Aquata]

If money is tight, people gravitate towards cheaper options. The thing to do would be to just highlight the differences, why choose the original. Even if they buy fake, it's probably such bad quality that they'll soon buy the original though.

As for copying other designs, that's trickier. I mean, it requires talent too. Like forging painings. You can't put it in a museum, but you can hang it on your wall. I guess if just some random wants a tail that looks a certain way, it's okay, but definitely not a professional. If you're just a private person with too much money burning a hole in your pocket, nobody's going to even see it. A mermaid perfomer wearing another perfomers tail is kind of like stealing their image. So, in a way I think it as both, art as an homage to a beautiful piece, but also piracy in the professional circles. Also, like in paintngs, you can't claim it's an original, give credit where it's due and say that this was inspired by that.

[Marinus Mortimer]

Because you might learn something and make the community a better and more constructive place to be. Yknow, one that supports other mermaids and their businesses and protects their own when people are rude, abusive, or just plain mean. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.


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Ok you know what, your right selkish i just had a light bulb [emoji362] moment im a ne self thanks for the enlightenment...
Can we move on now?


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[Marinus Mortimer]

Even if they buy fake, it's probably such bad quality that they'll soon buy the original though.



Exactly my point. Great product promotions.


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[Mermaid Clarity]

Exactly my point. Great product promotions.


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A product promotion would imply they're giving credit to Finfolk which they are not.


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[malinghi]

I'd like to remind everyone of the forum rules:

"Don’t provoke.
This includes any statement that while not a lie, insult, or threat, serves no function but to exacerbate conflict. Examples include making dares, extremely disrespectful language, criticizing others while omitting names, baiting or obviously mocking users, and statements that transparently invite a negative response."

This is an official warning to everyone, but Mortimer you're especially on thin ice.

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[Marinus Mortimer]

A product promotion would imply they're giving credit to Finfolk which they are not.


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But the buyer knows that they are buying cheap copies unless u think they dont know about finfolk imean what Mer doesn't know or have seen their tails.


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[Mermaid Clarity]

But the buyer knows that they are buying cheap copies unless u think they dont know about finfolk imean what Mer doesn't know or have seen their tails.


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that is a very closed way of thinking about the situation. "What mer doesn't know a Finfolk tail?" I'd refer to the other thread discussing these ripoff fabric tails in which a mermaid was given a fabric ripoff as a gift by her unsuspecting family. the world is bigger than Mernetwork.


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[Marinus Mortimer]

that is a very closed way of thinking about the situation. "What mer doesn't know a Finfolk tail?" I'd refer to the other thread discussing these ripoff fabric tails in which a mermaid was given a fabric ripoff as a gift by her unsuspecting family. the world is bigger than Mernetwork.


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Yo are you even reading what you right you said it "unsuspecting family " the girl was a mermaid her family members are not. And are you saying Mernetwork is the only base in which Finfolk functions? No right they have thousands of followers on every form of media they use so yes every mermaid knows finfolk some people get on mermaiding after seeing someone in a gorgeous silicone tail be it from any of the tailors.


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[Mermaid Clarity]

Yo are you even reading what you right you said it "unsuspecting family " the girl was a mermaid her family members are not. And are you saying Mernetwork is the only base in which Finfolk functions? No right they have thousands of followers on every form of media they use so yes every mermaid knows finfolk some people get on mermaiding after seeing someone in a gorgeous silicone tail be it from any of the tailors.


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Yes. The unsuspecting family paid for the tail as a gift and that happens all the time without the mermaid community as a whole hearing about it. You can't say "everyone knows Finfolk" anymore than you can say "everyone knows Zara" it's a brand. Not an institution. People who are buying tails do not necessarily have any contact with the community in general and therefore don't know a Finfolk from a Fishbutt. These are the people who buy knockoffs without knowing and therefore keep thieves in business.


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[AniaR]

I honestly do not see a point to this thread. I appreciate the OP is looking for ideas to stop piracy but there aren't any options available. Tails are not copyrightable. The only way is to prevent by making sure the images can't be used and I love finfolk but they havent done that yet. All we're doing is debating once again if there's any pros to bootlegging and that's all subjective and drags out people's emotions.

So to the OP, case closed, Im sorry there isnt anything anyone can do. it sounds like you're trying to be proactive about educating others, and that's really all that can be done. best of luck

[Marinus Mortimer]

I honestly do not see a point to this thread. I appreciate the OP is looking for ideas to stop piracy but there aren't any options available. Tails are not copyrightable. The only way is to prevent by making sure the images can't be used and I love finfolk but they havent done that yet. All we're doing is debating once again if there's any pros to bootlegging and that's all subjective and drags out people's emotions.

So to the OP, case closed, Im sorry there isnt anything anyone can do. it sounds like you're trying to be proactive about educating others, and that's really all that can be done. best of luck

Well said Raina.


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[Marinus Mortimer]

Yes. The unsuspecting family paid for the tail as a gift and that happens all the time without the mermaid community as a whole hearing about it. You can't say "everyone knows Finfolk" anymore than you can say "everyone knows Zara" it's a brand. Not an institution. People who are buying tails do not necessarily have any contact with the community in general and therefore don't know a Finfolk from a Fishbutt. These are the people who buy knockoffs without knowing and therefore keep thieves in business.


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Im done with you your just as hard headed in your values as I about not giving a ****. Thanks for the pointless debate that shouldn't have happened if you think i should have kept my feelings to my self it would also have been productive not taking my feelings about it to heart.


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[malinghi]

Mortimer, if you "don't give a ****" then it should be easy for you to stop replying to this thread. I strongly suggest you do that.

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[Marinus Mortimer]

Mortimer, if you "don't give a ****" then it should be easy for you to stop replying to this thread. I strongly suggest you do that.

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Roger that.


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[Mermaid Momo]

There aren't any ways to stop piracy, if people see a way to make money they will do it and some people have low moral compasses or just see a quick buck to make. The only way you could possibly persuade people form buying the knock offs is to make a master post about them in what I'm assuming is your group for Brazil. First make the post informative, explain that the tails are very bad in quality and aren't worth the money, there is a thread here with photos of the quality, and from my understanding of another mer who bought an earlier knock off the fabric is not lycra or suitable for swimming and peels instantly. You could also make a new rule: no knock off tails allowed in the group. Discussion posts will maybe be allowed if it isn't beating a dead horse or asking where to buy one or inquiring about buying one.

In this case the only way to stop the tails from circulating is to stop people from buying sadly.

[Mermaid Momo]

Also direct them to fabric tail makers that print on designs, I'm not sure if they are an affordable option in Brazil but they may beat silicone tail prices and still look good.

[Mermaid Clarity]

There aren't any ways to stop piracy, if people see a way to make money they will do it and some people have low moral compasses or just see a quick buck to make. The only way you could possibly persuade people form buying the knock offs is to make a master post about them in what I'm assuming is your group for Brazil. First make the post informative, explain that the tails are very bad in quality and aren't worth the money, there is a thread here with photos of the quality, and from my understanding of another mer who bought an earlier knock off the fabric is not lycra or suitable for swimming and peels instantly. You could also make a new rule: no knock off tails allowed in the group. Discussion posts will maybe be allowed if it isn't beating a dead horse or asking where to buy one or inquiring about buying one.

In this case the only way to stop the tails from circulating is to stop people from buying sadly.

Well said, info is definitely key! That said, I'd be careful about banning people who have knockoff tails, but making it known that knockoffs exist and aren't cool is a start. We shouldn't be shaming people who are just excited to participate in our hobby.


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[LouLouBelle]

Reading through this thread is actually heartbreaking...

It's such a shame there isn't an easy way to catch and charge people for art theft and piracy.

I would agree that an informative, pinned post on the group page would be a good idea. Making sure everyone in the group knows what the general stance on knockoffs is.

Banning people with a knockoff would be fine if, and only if, they knew exactly what they were doing when they purchased it.

How about banning photos and videos with knockoff tails in them instead? That would seem a lot more reasonable to me, and it should help encourage anyone with a knockoff to do the right thing and get themselves a proper tail.


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[Mermaid Ankhali]

I'd like to remind everyone of the forum rules:

"Don’t provoke.
This includes any statement that while not a lie, insult, or threat, serves no function but to exacerbate conflict. Examples include making dares, extremely disrespectful language, criticizing others while omitting names, baiting or obviously mocking users, and statements that transparently invite a negative response."

This is an official warning to everyone, but Mortimer you're especially on thin ice.

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Any comment can "invite a negative response" if it differs from someone else's. Whether or not I or anyone else agrees with Merman Mortimer's opinion, he has a right to it.


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[Mermaid Clarity]

Reading through this thread is actually heartbreaking...

It's such a shame there isn't an easy way to catch and charge people for art theft and piracy.

I would agree that an informative, pinned post on the group page would be a good idea. Making sure everyone in the group knows what the general stance on knockoffs is.

Banning people with a knockoff would be fine if, and only if, they knew exactly what they were doing when they purchased it.

How about banning photos and videos with knockoff tails in them instead? That would seem a lot more reasonable to me, and it should help encourage anyone with a knockoff to do the right thing and get themselves a proper tail.


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I like the idea of banning photos in private forum spaces but I'd worry that again, it would feel like shaming a mermaid who was responsible for buying the knockoff. The pinned post, though, that's a good way to let people know it's at least a possibility. I have no doubt the presence of a knockoff tail wouldn't go unnoticed no matter what.



Any comment can "invite a negative response" if it differs from someone else's. Whether or not I or anyone else agrees with Merman Mortimer's opinion, he has a right to it.


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That's true, but there's a difference between a dissenting opinion and a rude or inciting comment. A right to an opinion is not freedom from consequences of that opinion including discourse. The key is not be rude and personally attack or get defensive when your worldview is challenged.


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[AniaR]

it was a pirates of the Caribbean meme. I think we all need to chill TBH. If it happened on FB no one would bat an eye. let's pick and choose our battles. and move on.

[H-SAMA]

you see, so good points have been said here:
1. "everyone knows by know"...
well obviously NOT EVERYONE since I am seeking for help and I didn't know.

2. "I simply don't see anything wrong with the fact that they stole those pictures, plus its great promotion for them,"
Wrong again since they are copping not only Finfolk but also Mertailor's, Finfun's and others AND PEOPLE HAVE NO CLUE about the name of the brands in BRazil. They just know they're cheap tails.

And I worry because obviously we don't want to support piracy
but also what the quality of those tails is going to be? will they even be delivered?


3. "If you're just a private person with too much money burning a hole in your pocket, nobody's going to even see it. A mermaid perfomer wearing another perfomers tail is kind of like stealing their image"

That is ANOTHER problem we "try to fix" because one of our most famous mermaid copied Hannah's tail and did perform with it and got famous because of it and now a soap opera here has a almost exact design of a finfolk tail. So it is hard for me to say "hey you shouldn't copy" and yet the main media is like "be famous like these mermaids" and they copy.

and by the way his art IS in a museum.

I think I may have not expressed myself right because everyone is just focusing on the finfolk brand.
but what about Copying Mertailor ecotail?

[malinghi]

Any comment can "invite a negative response" if it differs from someone else's. Whether or not I or anyone else agrees with Merman Mortimer's opinion, he has a right to it.


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The difference between having a differing opinion and"transparently inviting a negative response" is intent. Genuine discussion is fine. When people argue for the sake of arguing and continue going back and forth when it's clear no one is going to change the other person's mind and they're acting based on emotion, we try to discourage that. I admit it's highly subjective.

If you'd like to discuss the rules that's fine but please do that in the rules section of the forum.

[Marinus Mortimer]

That's true, but there's a difference between a dissenting opinion and a rude or inciting comment. A right to an opinion is not freedom from consequences of that opinion including discourse. The key is not be rude and personally attack or get defensive when your worldview is challenged.


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Nahh Selkish i asked you to please stop the pintless argument several times yet you continued i said "lets not have the same argument again" and you kept on trying to educate me , you were also rude several times im not the type of person to take rudeness without a response...


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[Marinus Mortimer]

The difference between having a differing opinion and"transparently inviting a negative response" is intent. Genuine discussion is fine. When people argue for the sake of arguing and continue going back and forth when it's clear no one is going to change the other person's mind and they're acting based on emotion, we try to discourage that. I admit it's highly subjective.

If you'd like to discuss the rules that's fine but please do that in the rules section of the forum.

I wasnt i asked several times that the argument should be dropped to no avail im not the onlyone at fault, people came at me for posting a meme!


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[Marinus Mortimer]

Any comment can "invite a negative response" if it differs from someone else's. Whether or not I or anyone else agrees with Merman Mortimer's opinion, he has a right to it.


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Thank you, i always get bombarded for this stuff, and im always seen as transparently inviting negative responses which is never the case people need to see the two sides of the Ying Yang theres a light side just as a dark side an nither can live without the other...


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[AniaR]

:bulldozer:

[Syreni]

I am going to chime in on this one. First thing is china has no copyright laws so any factory making your product can sell copies and its up to the importing country to block it. Even if you just have the fabric made there and finish the tail in Brazil, china can and probably will sell it to anyone who wants the fabric. I started selling costumes on ebay 15 years ago and now I cant even sell one because of 1000's of re sellers from china have flooded the online markets. Its really the importing country and person to make the right choice on to were to buy your stuff.