Silicone & Fabric fins - Progress pictures

[Moonflower]

Hello everymer! So, I've been playing around with the use of silicone caulking and have figured out a way to make some embellishment fins (side and dorsal) that I'm quite happy with! Here's a few pictures of my progress so far, and I hope to have them ready by morning to add to my new tail.

I started with a clear sheet of plastic as my working base (as silicone will not stick to it) and measured and cut out patterns for the fins I was working on:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/flowerbite/IMG_6024.jpg

Then I stretched out the fabric I wanted to use over the plastic using straight quilting pins:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/flowerbite/IMG_6032.jpg

These are the zip ties I used as the tines:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/flowerbite/IMG_6030.jpg

And a shot of the dorsal fin still drying after I finished:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/flowerbite/IMG_6022.jpg


I did have to work FAST to get the top fabric to stick after I sandwiched them together, but I practiced a few times before I started these and I think I got them pretty well! Right now, I have three sheets of fabric drying outside - the thickness of the silicone around the zip ties makes it take a bit longer to dry, but even still, only about 6-7 hours in total from start to finish!

In case you were wondering, yes, I did have to use my hands to get the fabric to stick and somewhat sculpt the silicone into the correct shape, but it peeled off my hands pretty easily when I was done, and my exposure time was brief. Also, I wore a mask while working and had all the windows and doors open, and the fans blowing too.

The next step will be cutting out the fins, figuring out how to attach them to the neoprene, and testing to see if paint will stick to the fabric with silicone in it! ^_^

[Azurin Luna]

I've had about the same idea for a new tail that has been brewing, only not with zipties but with plastic strings or strips so that I can have light shine through it. Kinda like the floresent jellies look like. I only have to figure out to safely tuck the electronics away.

I hope it will work well for you :D

[SireniaSolaris]

Which kind of silicone are you using? I was on the phone with the manufacturers for a very long time because they apparently have, like, 30 different Silicone I and II products.

I'm running some tests right now with three of them.

[Moonflower]

Ummm... this one:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/flowerbite/IMG_6036.jpg

I don't really know, I grabbed the mid-range priced one that said "clear".

[OrcaMatt]

Zip ties! That's a great idea

[ShyMer]

I am rather interested in seeing how it turns out with the zip ties. I love the ridges they make.

[Moonflower]

Here's the sheets after they had cured:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/flowerbite/fabricfins.jpg

Cutting them out:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/flowerbite/IMG_6055.jpg

The dorsal fin(s):
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/flowerbite/IMG_6062.jpg

And a comparison shot between my original sketch design and the final fins:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/flowerbite/tails.jpg

[ShyMer]

That looks awesome! :O

[Mermaid Lorelei]

Nice! Glad to see I'm not the only one that tried zip ties!

[Aquatarian]

Wow! I can't wait to see that in water. I bet your gonna get a really nice and realistic transparent look.
Way to go!

[SireniaSolaris]

I was interested in begining work with this product since it is a thickened silicone - still 100% silicone, but not necessry to have to deal with molds and such. I learned a lot by talking to both, the people at GE who produce it, and handymen who work with it. Per the handymen, this stuff will bond to pretty much anything. So you shouldn't even need to thin a coat first to attach it to neoprene - it will attach. Now what the woman at GE had to offer was very insightful. There is a costumer in LA who uses this product in his costuming. So it HAS been used for this purpose.

However, all but two of their products are made with a mildicide agent - a chemical it gives off to prevent molding. This chemical will continue releasing for 5-7 years, according to the woman, and so if you have any intention at all on using this in a natural area, or an area that houses fish or other fragile life, make sure you only use one of the two types that do not have the mildicide agent! Also, I would assume if it would kill fish, it can't be that great for you, either :(

The two that she told me were safe were the Silicone I Window/Door/Attic/Basement
and Silicone II Supreme 2X Stretch Window/Door/Attic/Basement

I am still experimenting with both of these, along with the Silicone II Paintable Silicone - that one is not 100% silicone because there is an added product that is not silicone that allows it to be painted. I ideally want to work with the 100% silicone products since that will hold up more or less indefinitely. But, I have this product to test out as a plan B if I cannot find a way to mix in color/paint the 100% silicone.

So for your own health, and the health of any fishies or areas that might come in contact with anything made with this product, make sure you use one of the two that would not harm anything :)

[Moonflower]

Cool, well I just checked and the one I used was the "Silicone I Window/Door/Attic/Basement" one ^_^

[SireniaSolaris]

Perfect :)

Works nice, doesn't it? :D

[Kanti]

Holy canoli!
Those look amazing! :'D
I can't wait to see the whole thing <3 !

Also, Moon, a trick to handling the caulk without it sticking to your hands is to keep a cup of very soapy warm water with you~
Just dip your hands in the water and let the excess drip off and the caulk won't stick to you :')
I do it all the time when it comes to smoothing out the top layers xD

[lasserine]

Wow, nice idea!

[lynsea]

If you wouldn't mind, could you post a bit more about how exactly you did this. I am a little confused how you did the silicone and fabric combo. (Basically is it just silicone squished between two pieces of fabric that you then molded? Either way, these look excellent and it is a really good idea.

Idea: Leave a bit of extra fabric on the bottom of the fin so you can sew it into the body of your tail.

[Mermaid Sirena]

Those are sexy, and this is perfect! Way better then what I was going to try and experiment with when I tried to make my own tail / fins. If you would be willing to post a clear step my step instruction of to that would be amazing and I would love you forever :D

[Mermaasai]

http://www.mixol.de/front_content.ph (http://www.mixol.de/front_content.php)from what I have read by a few home owners, this is an excellent silicone tint you can mix with that kind of silicone..
I havent tried it but its an idea ^.^

also Ive read that you can use acrylic paint.. some guy I was reading about did it with red acrylic to make some inner ear plugs.
He said it got gummy REALLY fast though..

**edit
I just read that the silicone drys faster when you add acrylic paint to it... fascinating.. so a little acrylic is good if you are doing thick layers to ensure that it dries through instead of leaving the middle mushy or the bottom squishy..


also you might be able to use the acrylic paint idea with small amounts of silicone and rub it into the already cured silicone (small amounts so it doesnt get all dried out and wasted)... as long as the cured silicone is grease and moisture free it will stick from what I understand..

[Mermaasai]

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hypertufa/msg1217385422593.html

another interesting and helpful source of info..

[Moonflower]

http://youtu.be/U287WeenwWo

Video of me swimming with the fins ^_^

[Mermaasai]

"This video contains content from WMG, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds."

???!?!?!?!??!?!???!?!?!?? wtf you tube?!

can you upload on some other host site? I'm eager to have a looksie

[Spindrift]

Yeah I'm in Florida right now and it's blocked for me as well.

[Taniwha]

Working fine here in NZ (and it looks amazing! Lovely how the fins move) which is weird as I'm fairly used to getting the "move somewhere else to see this!!" messages.

[ShyMer]

Not letting me see it either... ? :(

[Alveric]

Same here. I guess all North America is blocked?

Alveric

[digitalSELKIE]

It seems to work fine from Canada!

It looks amazing Moonflower! That's a really ingenious way to make fins, and it's quite simple as well. The movement is quite flowing as well when you move underwater, and the clear effect is something you can't really do if you cast the entire thing, I'm guessing.

[Moonflower]

The link is fixed. I know now to never use clips from obscure Madonna songs... Like she doesn't have enough cash already, she can't afford letting an intro to one of her songs up on YouTube...

[Nim]

wow….It looks a.m.a.z.i.n.g.

[Kanti]

Wow that looks pretty awesome :'D
They stand up really nice~
Are they cumbersome at all or are they pretty flexible? They're keeping the shape of the fin very well!

[Moonflower]

They're very flexible, and not cumbersome at all. I barely noticed they were there, especially the main dorsal. The front fins would even stick up out of the water a bit when I'd swim on my back, if I wasn't too close to the surface (they'd lay to the sides if I was floating).

[Kanti]

What about when you're outside the water? Can you sit on them and they'll be okay?
It seems like when you get out you'll be like whoooops xD

I had a dorsal fin with wires in it and it wasn't too bad but it was still worrysome whenever I'd have to sit on it.
Can the plastic bend and bounce right back?

[Moonflower]

Yes, I can sit on it and not break it. inside each of the spines are zip ties, which are very bendy. The dorsal can easily be pushed to one side and sat on.

[Kanti]

That's really handy~
Very cool idea!

[Azurin Luna]

Looks very nice!
I'm going to try and make some for myself too

[Prince Calypso]

how did you get the two sheets of fabric to stick together and did you put the sheer fabric on top or underneath between the two pieces of fabric.
honestly this an ingenues idea and quite beautiful in the water
i wonder if the same process could be used to make a fluke?

[ShyMer]

I was wondering for a fluke as well- I guess I wonder how much the fabric and the silicone block colors from coming through. What kind of fabric is it, anyway? It looks like the zip ties flow, but they like to hold their shape for the most part. It might be interesting to try it out :)

[Moonflower]

This is the fabric I used:
http://www.joann.com/pearlized-sheers-many-colors/xprd728512/

The fabric is on the outside of both sides, so the silicone doesn't "block" any colors coming through. I think, as so many are interested in the technique, that I'll post a tutorial soon ^_^

[Prince Calypso]

great!!!!

[Mermaid Sirena]

THOSE ARE AWESOME! -drool- Tutorial please this has just made the hopes and dreams of an important part of my dream tail become reality and I can't wait to see how you do this in detail.

[melbel1023]

Wow, I'm so glad someone else had a chance to experiment with zip ties for fins! I had been wanting to for awhile, but never had the time.
I use zip-ties for my bodices and corset making (its cheaper and MUCH more comfortable than steel boning), and had an idea for a tail with thick "veins" in them.
It looks so good!

[Winged Mermaid]

Those look AMAZING! WOW. My first tail was made with a pectoral and dorsal fins that were made from zip ties and the same fabric (see here (http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/67413_101002733303802_100001822264620_4357_6321868 _n.jpg)) and I always loved the look of them. This takes it to a whole new level! How ingenious!

I'm a little unclear also on how you made them. I can understand if you don't want to spell it out step by step to keep us all from doing the same thing, but if you're willing to share/clarify that would be so great!

Keep us updated on how wear and tear goes over time? I would be worried about degrading, but then again we don't really know how the silicone caulking degrades as compare to the latex.

By the way, just a tip. If you would like to cove the zipper better by keeping the dorsals together, you can add small pieces of white industrial velcro on the insides. Hannah uses that to keep her dorsals together. She uses rounded pieces so it's not as obvious, and it blends very well. Can't wait to see more of that beautiful tail!! Well done, well done!!

[Moonflower]

I actually did put velcro, but it didn't hold very well LOL. I'm going to put more soon, and I'm still working on a tutorial (been busy with lots of other projects lately).

[Winged Mermaid]

Yeah, I can see how weight would be a problem. Maybe small white eye and hook closures? Could be a pain though. Just brainstorming! Eeeee can't wait for the tutorial! <-- totally geeking out

[Nemefish]

those fins are amazing, i would love a tail with a dorsal fin like that ^_^ great job!

[Nyx]

These are amazing!
wonderful work.
and thank you for posting the process of it.
I had no idea how to do the fins for my tail, but now I have an idea or two.
Thank you so much :)

[MermaidRaegan]

Amazing. OAO ..... I must experiment! To the lab!

[Mahi Mermaid]

This is awesome, I've used that same fabric for the end of my fluke but never thought of using zip ties! This is awesome! I hope you don't mind people using this idea--looks like a TON of us are interested!!!

[Mahi Mermaid]

Here's the sheets after they had cured:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/flowerbite/fabricfins.jpg

Cutting them out:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/flowerbite/IMG_6055.jpg

The dorsal fin(s):
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/flowerbite/IMG_6062.jpg

And a comparison shot between my original sketch design and the final fins:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t59/flowerbite/tails.jpg


seriously genius!

[MerAnthony]

I know this is an old thred but how did you get them to stay on the tail?

[Winged Mermaid]

You attach them like any other additional fins- Cut a slit where the fin will go, insert fin and situate it like you want it, pin on the inside to keep in place, and on the inside sew both parts of the tail body fabric and the fin (you sandwich the fin fabric between the two body fabric pieces) all together making sure to back stitch at beginning and end to lock the thread.

[Marilla]

What kind of fabric did you use? It's lovely!
And did you use the plastic to keep it firm? I couldn't tell if you used it for pattern only.
Lastly, could I have permission to use this technique, though I would not use your pattern, colors, etc?

xoxo ~ Mermaid Marilla

[Moonflower]

Yes, anyone is welcome to try it. I'm hopefully going to be working on this technique again soon, and I'll post a video when I do.

This is the material I used:
http://www.joann.com/pearlized-sheers/xprd728512/

It comes in a couple of different colors, like purple and pink.

And there's this one as well, which has a slight texture to it:
http://www.joann.com/crinkle-pearlized-sheers/xprd728565/

I used the blue version of the above for my practice test.

The "spines" are zip ties I picked up from Home Depot. I did have to slice a few of them in half as they were too wide, and trim several of them down to the right length before I began.



I will say, after about a year, they have held up surprisingly well. There's a little bit of fraying along the edges, but because the material is so sheer, it's hard to see, especially in the water. I ended up taking out the zipper and just using the "pull on slowly" method, as the zipper kept breaking. The dorsal has remained nearly perfect despite this, but some of the smaller fins have begun to rip at the base where I stitched them to the neoprene. My plan is to remove them completely, snip off the ripped edge, then re-attach them. Only, this time, I'll be using a bit of caulking around the bases after I attach them. Sort of give them a solid "base", if you will. Hopefully, it will keep them from ripping again, or at least, ripping so quickly. I will also be attempting to cover the side seams with caulking and see if that helps hide them, as they are quite obvious to me and anyone else (I'm sure) who has functioning eyes LOL

[Moonflower]

Oh, and the plastic on the back was only there while it dried. It removes easily from the plastic once its dried, like a window cling.

[AniaR]

Moonflower you're so awesome I still wish I got to go for that swim and see it in action!

[Mizuko]

This is incredible! :D I love what you've done! :D

[Moonflower]

Moonflower you're so awesome I still wish I got to go for that swim and see it in action!

Aww, thank you! I'm sure you'll come back for a visit some day, and we can go for that swim ^_^

[Winged Mermaid]

I was trying this technique for a dorsal and pectoral fins. The problem I'm running into is air bubbles. Air bubbles EVERYWHERE. if they're held up to the light they look really messy :( I did a test fin then I did a few others and I still had this issue even when I took steps to prevent it. Yours look so smooth! Here are some thumbnails of some I haven't cut out yet.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc227/winged_mermaid/th_IMG_3541.jpg (http://s219.photobucket.com/user/winged_mermaid/media/IMG_3541.jpg.html) http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc227/winged_mermaid/th_IMG_3543.jpg (http://s219.photobucket.com/user/winged_mermaid/media/IMG_3543.jpg.html)

I guess it's not as bad when you lay it flat but I'm worried about how it's going to look in the water with light shining through it :/ Any pointers?

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc227/winged_mermaid/th_59500_432759413462279_315825528_n.jpg (http://s219.photobucket.com/user/winged_mermaid/media/59500_432759413462279_315825528_n.jpg.html)

[Moonflower]

I was trying this technique for a dorsal and pectoral fins. The problem I'm running into is air bubbles. Air bubbles EVERYWHERE. if they're held up to the light they look really messy :( I did a test fin then I did a few others and I still had this issue even when I took steps to prevent it. Yours look so smooth! Here are some thumbnails of some I haven't cut out yet.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc227/winged_mermaid/th_IMG_3541.jpg (http://s219.photobucket.com/user/winged_mermaid/media/IMG_3541.jpg.html) http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc227/winged_mermaid/th_IMG_3543.jpg (http://s219.photobucket.com/user/winged_mermaid/media/IMG_3543.jpg.html)

I guess it's not as bad when you lay it flat but I'm worried about how it's going to look in the water with light shining through it :/ Any pointers?

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc227/winged_mermaid/th_59500_432759413462279_315825528_n.jpg (http://s219.photobucket.com/user/winged_mermaid/media/59500_432759413462279_315825528_n.jpg.html)

My test fin had this problem, because I didn't know how much time I had before the silicone would dry before it became unworkable. My biggest tip is to go as FAST as you can (10-15 minutes tops) and make your silicone thicker (mines about the thickness of a quarter in the thinnest spots, except for the fins that cover my heels. I made those a little thinner so they'd "flop over" a little better).
Cut a large hole in the silicone tip so it comes out faster and thicker, use a wide plastic "joint knife" (had to look that one up to get the name. It's the plastic scraper thingy usually used to apply putty to nail holes in drywall) to really get the silicone into the bottom layer of fabric , and use your hands to pat and smooth out the top layer to try to remove the extra bubbles. I still have a few bubbles in my fins, but they sort of disappear underwater (they're mostly next to the zip ties, even though I "built up" the silicone around them before putting the top fabric on).
I washed my hands afterwards and sort of removed the silicone there the same way you'd remove dried school glue when you were little. It comes off very easily.
I let the fins dry outside to minimize the fumes, and they were ready to remove from the plastic backing a few hours later.

I hope this helps! You've done a great job so far!!

[Moonflower]

Oh, and I just realized I don't think I ever mentioned this:

Step 1 - stretch out the bottom fabric over the plastic using several pins to secure it in place
Step 2 - Squeeze on the silicone caulk.
Step 3 - Use the tool to spread it out evenly.
Step 4 - Lay the zip ties down.
Step 5 - Add more caulk over the zip ties.
Step 6 - Add the second layer of fabric and, using your fingertips, pat and spread it down into place over everything, including smoothing the zip tied area so the caulking is raised around it and even.

As soon as you put down the caulking, you have about 10 minutes to do all this, so prepare to work quickly, especially if it's a large area.

[Mermaid Adrienne]

These are so amazing! I love how the fins are a little stiff so they actually look more realistic. :)

[Merman Lir]

I think I might give this a try for version two of my fin-hawk headpiece. Thanks for reviving with the how-to!

[The Harlem Mermaid]

Moonflower (http://mernetwork.com/index/member.php?134-Moonflower) what an amazing job you did! my hubby is starting to make dorsal fins for fabrics tail, can you suggest any links on how to shape the chiffon fabric into a dorsal shape? would appreciate any advise you give us. and what is the sheet you used called please? great idea thank you

[Astrid_Delphine86]

Umm... Photobucket changed their website so you now have to pay for a premium account in order to post pictures to a third party website.... but I really need this tutorial for a project I want to work on really soon. Any way you could update it, pretty please?? :sad eyes: