Towards Community Standards For Sharing, Discussing, Protection, and Use Of Ideas

[OrcaMatt]

TL;DR: If we can't figure out a way to share and discuss ideas, establish how they can be used, and have a basis for determining if something is legitimately similar or a blatant copy, we're going to implode or become an irrelevant fandom community.

I think we need a community standard about doing projects that are similar to things that have already been done.

We can't really police people outside of the community, but we can have guidelines to at least minimize conflict for when somebody makes a blue tail that looks a bit too much like somebody else's blue tail, say, while at the same time making it easier for people to feel comfortable talking about things they want to do. I'll admit, I'm terrible about this. There are lots of things I want to do that I kind of don't want to talk about because I hate the idea of getting beaten to launch, but at the same time, I don't like that people feel like they can't discuss ideas. It's kind of funny but it makes me really twitchy when somebody starts a thread about something I've been thinking about because maybe it'll inspire somebody to actually go and do it, then if I do it, it'll just look like I was copying them (which would be bad, because I'm pretty against that sort of thing!)

I think this concern about posting ideas before they're implemented is a big factor in what I feel at least is a gradual move away from being the post-Yuku successor to "The Mermaids and Mermen Costuming Forum" and more towards being a mermaid fandom community with a bit more of a pragmatic bent than most. What I feel is needed is a clear policy regarding expectations people should have when sharing ideas, protections afforded to the ideas, a baseline for what should be considered a protected idea (or not), and guidelines for determining 'inspired by' vs. 'copied from'.

So what I think we should discuss is:
A baseline community standard for establishing reasonable expectations for people posting ideas (designs, processes, etc) on the site have in terms of what people might (not 'may') do with them, in the absence of explicitly-stated directives
The Raven's ALEX Tail Tutorial Law, as an example of what we're trying to avoid happening again
At what stage does enough people adding to the development of an idea cause that idea to become community public domain?
Establishment of default rights and expectations minimizes the potential disruption caused by retroactive claiming and enforcement of rights


What constitutes establishment and ownership of an idea or concept?
"I thought of it first"? Difficult to document
"I told somebody about this"?
"I posted the concept sketch first"?
"I implemented it first"?

What is considered novel or unique enough to be legitimately held proprietary?
My pathological example of this has always been the orca tail. "Your orca tail is copying my orca tail, because I made the orca tail first!" Well, no, because it's an orca tail...it's a thing that exists in nature, so they're all going to look pretty similar. The "Nobody Here Invented The Orca" Law
Koi tail? Lionfish tail? Clownfish tail?

"There are only so many ways to [make scales, shape fins]"
Tails of merfolk popular media: "Splash" tail, Ariel tail, Aquamarine tail, H2O tail, etc?

Where is the boundary between legitimate and illegitimate similarity between designs or implemented pieces?
The boundary between 'inspiration' and 'copying'?

What role does intent to produce play?
How long can an idea remain on paper until whatever special status 'intention to produce' gives expires?

What are the rules for commercial tail makers?
The vast majority of whom aren't actively here anyway, so probably a moot point

A way to informally 'license' things you want to use non-commercially?
Standard protocols for permission and disclosure?

[Princess Kae-Leah]

I gotta say, Matt, I REALLY appreciate this post. I personally have a hard time considering a tail modeled after a real fish or marine mammal or a popular mermaid character copying in an unethical sense. Heck, there are cosplayers that obsess about getting every last detail right on their costumes yet, in comparison, actually most Splash-inspired tails I've seen are not even so much exact copies as taking inspiration from the Splash color scheme/design, and just about any green tail can work very well with an Ariel costume, so that really isn't a big deal to me. It's a really murky and gray area to figure out where the line is crossed, and I'm not sure I can say for sure, but perhaps it has something to do with a design being completely conceived in the artist's imagination, with little or no inspiration from outside sources(other mers' tails, mermaid characters in popular culture, etc.). A shell top, for example, is such a common mermaid costume piece that was popularized by Ariel and other popular culture depictions of mermaids that I don't think it can be said who did it first so the basic idea is public domain, but Raven's octo-top, on the other fin, is truly a unique and original creation that while it could perhaps be argued that it is inspired by an animal that exists in nature, I don't off the top of my head know of any popular mermaid characters who wear such a top.
There's also the question of the intent of an alleged copier, and if they give credit to where credit is due. Most owners and makers of mertails inspired by popular mer-characters and real fish/marine mammals have no qualms about admitting where they get their inspiration from, and sometimes if someone is polite and asks another mer "I really like your color scheme/shape of your fluke/scale pattern/etc., do you mind if I copy it for my own tail?" and the other mer lets them, there is no harm done really, but if someone works hard on making a very unique and original design and someone copies it and claims it as their own idea, that's not ethical in my eyes, especially if they intend to mass-produce it and profit off of it.
There are times though when a strong similarity is completely coincidental. I'm a writer of a series of online novellas about a half-mermaid teenage heroine named Nerissa Sanderson, and I was dismayed when "Forgive My Fins" came out and it's protagonist was also a half-mermaid with the last name Sanderson, but I assure you I am no plagiarist as the book wasn't even out yet when I first created the series. Likewise, there's a Filipino TV show with two mer-characters named Nerissa and Zale, my characters' names, and I once found a POTC fanfic where Syrena had a sister named Nerissa and there was also a merman character named Zale.

[Kanti]

It's difficult to answer these questions without a scenario, sometimes.
I love the whole example of the orca tail, because it's entirely true. How can you think someone is copying you
if they're trying to make a tail based off an animal? I do think that's different from making a tail INSPIRED from
an animal, though. Lorelei's tail, for example, was inspired by a beta fish. However, it looked NOTHING like an actual
beta tail. The fluke looked like some sort of parrot fish tail, the coloration seemed very tropical, and the actual
inspiration from the beta was actually more the viened area and initial colors. Either way, this was more of a mix of
many things that caused a more unique tail. If someone were to just make a straight up orca tail, I don't think it's
fair to try and claim credit. Even if you thought of it first, I'd think of that as pioneering the idea, not really "inventing"
it. I mean, it's not something THAT crazy and original. I'm sure more than one person had that idea in their head.
When it comes to Raven's octo-top, I guess it's difficult to say. I, personally, would have never thought of something
like that and it is certainly something I have never seen elsewhere. Not only this, but the immitation created was in the
exact fashion, pose, and everything so it's difficult to say it wasn't copied.

In the end, I think we have to remember we are all getting inspiration from nature. Sometimes it's alright if things
get similar, especially if there's communication or understanding. Sometimes the situations suggest differently.

[Artisankatie]

I've thought about this a bit recently, trying to work out how I'd react if someone else made a lionfish tail. I know I'm not the first person to think of it, but I think at the moment I'm the only one (I google image searched a lot in the months before making my tail to see if anyone else had done it, but the results might not have illustrated real life very well), and it's my only tail, so it's my whole character. I think that's where my only problem would be, that it's my character. Mermaid Shelley was planning a lionfish tail for someone else at one point, and I admit I was a bit squeamish, but I offered to help brainstorm ideas, as much to help as to ensure it didn't accidentally turn out exactly like mine.

So if someone else out there is planning a lionfish tail, don't worry! I won't come after you :P but I'd love to share my experience and help you!

However, I'm going to have another fish inspired tail soon, so I think I'd be less antsy if someone else were inspired by either fish, cos I could always swap to the other one.

[Kanti]

I guess fear of people copying you can stem from a lot of things. It certainly is a bit selfish to
care if someone copies you. It's sort of like wanting credit for stuff. Whether it may be right or
wrong. Maybe it's not even about wanting credit, but rather, to be original.
In the topic of mermaiding, I find this to be especially true, especially since it costs so much
time, effort, and money to make or buy a tail. When you design it, you want it to be something
awesome, original, and something that screams YOU. When someone sees your tail, you essentailly
want it to be like your signature, something that someone can look at and be like "Oh that's Kanti's
tail". At least, that's what I imagine, that's what I would like.

When someone copies your work, it steals part of you. It's definitely a hard blow, espeically for putting
so much consideration into making something so personal.