(( The Drama Bubble Thread ))

[Winged Mermaid]

It has become apparent that sometimes people just need a place to vent drama. Sometimes you see or hear something from someone, on FB, another site, or another topic and you just HAVE to get it out. Know and keep in mind that the BEST thing you can do is to WALK AWAY for a while. Either forget about it, or think about it in depth but think about it from all angles and realize and consider all sides. BUT if you HAVE to post something to get your thoughts out and get the something off your chest, but it would be considered dramatic, necro posting, stirring the pot, ect post it here.

Remember that this is a BUBBLE and that what is posted here stays here. Do not take posts of this thread to other parts of the forum! If you want to talk about these things with others (reply to each others posts) that's fine. If you don't want to get involved then don't. BUT KEEP TO THE RULES. BE RESPECTFUL AND CIVIL. NO MALICIOUS AND NASTY REMARKS. NO NAME CALLING. Just because it's in this thread does not mean you can go outside the rules. This thread is not outside the eyes and punishments of the Admins.

[SireniaSolaris]

Thank you for creating this. I feel some individuals have lashed out on the community as a whole when they are truly only upset by a few. Hopefully the addition of this will allow for a place to vent (because everyone needs to at times), and then be able to enjoy the rest of the community for everything it offers. <3

[Mermaid Sirena]

I think this is an excellent idea and hope it serves its intended purpose well, while everyone who posts will always be respectful.

[Winged Mermaid]

You know, never thought I'd be doing this, going for the drama and all that, but I'm so fucking tired and very hurt. I just need to get it out. And honestly? I think I owe both sides an explanation, because everyone apparently just thinks that I suck at doing my job, when I really have my reasons.




The following message was sent to you via the MerNetwork Contact Us form by chris@mermaidshelly.com
--------------------------------

I would have sent this as a PM to Iona, but apparently that has been taken away from me.

So let me get this straight;

Raven can post a big long drama thread whining about "I don't know what to do" and that's not drama. People comment in that thread speculating on if my relationship with Shell is abusive, and that's not drama. I get called an idiot and an asshole, and that's not drama. Raina piles on as usual, telling lies and slandering me by name after I don't respond for two months, and that's not drama. Raina continues to talk shit about me in other threads by name, but by gosh that's not drama!!!

But, I post a reasonable defense of myself to these attacks, and THAT is drama, apparently. Iona, your bias towards those two is so blatant I wonder if you can even see it. It is why myself and many, many other mers derisively refer to this page as the "Raven and Raina Fan Club". You're supposed to be the neutral on here, and yet there you are gushing about their "amazing lives" like an obsessed schoolgirl. And you're supposed to be fair and neutral? HA. Not even close.

I know you will run off and share this with them and have a nice little festival of crying and wailing. I expect that. What I didn't expect was that someone I once did a great favor for would be so incredibly one-sided and biased. I cannot believe I was STUPID enough to think you deserved it. Thanks a lot, at least we are now clear on your true nature.



(My reply could not be sent, Google says his email - which I took out for privacy reasons- does not exist, so I believe he has blocked me)

"Really Chris? REALLY?
Look, I am dealing with a LOT of issues which are very stressful both on MerNetwork and in my personal life. Yesterday I was trying to help tone down a lot of the drama that's been going on by merging threads, taking threads and moving them, chopping varoius posts out of topics to move them in hopes that perhaps people will clam down and either keep it in the drama threads or take it to PM. I had forgotten about Raven's thread, and going and finding it now, that's because there have been no comments since the last one 25 days ago and it was on the next page of that forum section. It slipped through the cracks. And frankly? Before that I was not sure how to handle everything, and that is the reason I have not been active as a poster or as much as a Admin, stepping in only when posts were reported. I have enough going on in my personal life, even multiple emergency hospitalizations and deaths in the family on top of my husband being deployed and everything else, and that that had to come first, not dealing with everyone's drama all the time on the forum.

To say I'm that bias is not only unfair but straight up wrong. I have had reason to ban you UNCOUNTABLE times since you first joined on MerYuku. People were complaining constantly telling me to just ban you already, that you were bringing more drama to the group than you were worth, and that I was bias for not banning you. Same with Matty. In fact talked Malinghi out of banning you MULTIPLE times! We have had SO many conversations on that I can't even count. Do you want to know why? First of all, I believe in the good in people and thought that maybe you would tone down the nastiness and tactlessness of your posts. Secondly, every time drama pops up on the forum I always try my very best to look at it from all sides, and all perspectives. It can be extremely hard at times, but as I said I try my best. I knew that at times you brought a side to the discussion that no one else had, and it had some validity. Raina and Raven aren't right all the time, and you and Chris and the Mertailor aren't right all the time either, but there is validity in both sides. The ONLY reason why I kept fighting for you, and rethinking and putting up with so much drama DESPITE how much stress it was causing me personally, how much it was damaging the reputation of my site (which I have worked so hard to build and maintain, and quite a bit of money out of pocket), that people told me they felt you made it an unsafe place to post, and how much harder it made my job- DESPITE ALL of those things I let you stay because I did not think it was fair that I eliminate the voice of that other side.

Even YESTERDAY before you even posted your post Malinghi and I decided to ban you. I was about to be done with all of this, and all the grace and hard work I'd put into letting that other side be heard was being thrown in my face. But STILL I spent hours scouring the web and the went to the vBulletin support forum to try and find out if there is an option that will maybe (there isn't even a guarantee here) help all of you who obviously can't stand each other, get along so that way the site can still function without the wars but with both sides of the argument still intact. IF THAT IS NOT BEING A GOOD FAIR ADMIN THEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS.

Yes, I haven't been on the ball in the past few months. I've been under a lot of personal stress. Was almost hospitalized myself for it. No, I'm not perfect. But do I try my damndest to be fair, see both sides, and do what I can while still allowing as much free speech as possible? Yes. For you to say otherwise in such a hatefully worded email when I've done nothing but fight the best I can, with limited understanding, for you is very very very. hurtful.

So I guess this is what I get. For all of that THIS is what I get. Both sides hate me for "not doing enough". It's never enough. Will it ever be enough for you Chris? Do you see my "true" nature now? Thanks for shoving my faith in my face.

Sincerely,
Iona"

[Merman Chris]

Ok I definitely posted out of frustration. I admit, and I am sorry for that. But how was I supposed to take it? I stay away for two months, keeping my mouth shut and saying nothing to the people I have issues with. Not one damn word, anywhere, much less here. Tried to let this all die off. But Raina can't let it go. I finally have enough of Raina's lies and calling me out by name meant to provoke a response, others saying horrid things, speculating on my relationship based on no evidence at all?!? so I come on to defend myself and it gets labelled drama. Meanwhile, all of the nasty, hateful crap she and others has spewed remains.

I am sorry for the harsh rhetoric, but can you at least understand how that looks?

And to be clear one last time; don't like the drama I brought regarding Matty? Blame Raina. She brought it to me so I would react.

[MermaidRaven]

Ok...I don't post here often but Iona I want you to know that I understand how hard it must be to run a site like this. I have NEVER seen a single forum that didn't have drama. Every community has drama because people will always disagree and see different sides of every story. Its human nature to argue and get upset at others when everyone is so passionate about something. I have seen a lot of effort from the site trying to manage the drama and I think there have been several great steps with the reviews etc. and I think a lot of people would agree even with the recent drama bursts this forum is headed in the right direction.

I'm really sorry you are feeling the way you are but I just wanted you to know that I think you are doing a great job. I would NEVER want to do what you do especially for free, I think you have always been 10,000 times more fair than I would have been in every situation. I appreciate you and everything you do <3


There are other things I would like to say (good and bad) but I fear the repercussions, so I'll just leave it at that. I support you and I'm sorry for the stress my dear.

[Mermaid Star]

Chris you and I have never really had problems. I am torn by your actions however. You have been very harsh to people lately. (I mean when you post here, not within a certain time frame) I know we are all very passionate people. Raina is passionate and so are you. Raina is my friend. So you may see me as bias. I have met her and I haven't met you. All I have to go on is what I see on here or in social media. Truly, Raina comes from a loving place. She may post passionately and sometimes dramatically. But she really does it out of the love for others. (Either defending her beliefs or her friends). It may not be the best way by she tries and it truly saying things from her heart and her intentions are good. I know that when you posted back in the day, you would post calmly unless someone attacked Shell. She is your passion and I understand that. We all have things we fly off the handle about when attacked. But as of late, there really hasn't been anything positive that I have seen from you. (I used to and I wish I could see that again)But I think you have gone too far into the hate of others that you may not see what their intention is (and maybe it is just easier for an outsider to see rather than someone that is involved). I take it, from your post, that you may have seen that your message to Iona was a bit harsh and a bit hateful. You have directed your anger at an entire community (by making anti mernetwork speech) which hurts me and I am sure several others. People are dramatic by nature but we try to keep it in check. It just hurts that in your rhetoric (not necessarily here) has been against the network and all of the work we all have put in to making it a great informative place for mer enthusiasts to go. (Sorry I am not trying to attack you at all it just isn't coming out right when I am typing it)

I am sorry I really went off in another direction with my post than I was intending to go.

In regards to your " Blame Raina. She brought it to me so I would react."

Iona has helped me in the past rethink what I have done and has told me as she has on this forum thread to walk away if you can and come back hours or days later with a fresh perspective so I don't fly off the handle. I have been known to say to my boyfriend that he made me react in a way because of how he reacted to me. And it isn't fair to him that I say that or think it. I am responsible for my actions and reactions. I am my own person and he does not nor should he control me. So why should I put my actions on him? I shouldn't. I understand what you are saying with the comment as I have done it before. But that doesn't make it fair.

Sorry, I really don't have a great way to end this. It is just a bunch of ideas and word vomit at the moment. I am really tired (since i am working overnights at work and my schedule is all kinds of messed up) Sorry if I am ranting or going off on an unnecessary tangent. Again, not meant to inflame. I am just trying to get my feelings out on the matter and I am having a hard time in my sleepy state.

[Merman Chris]

Star, no worries I think you make some good points and yeah I know I can blow up in anger. It's a problem I work on. Thing is, and the timeline will show, that after I had my blowup with them over two months ago I didn't post, I didn't address them, even when people on here were saying some pretty messed up things. All was fine until out of the blue one day, Raina starts using my name. It's like she WANTED me to come out and fight with her to prove her meme. Still, I did nothing. Then this past weekend, I gave ONE comment on Erics page of support, and she comes here and say I am "posting nasty messages all over the internet". That was it, I had finally had it with her lies and baiting tactics. There really are two sides to every story you know? I can count at least FIVE people who have been harrassed, threatened, and attacked by another person on here, yet who acts the victim every time. Friends of mine who have been harrassed because they dared to try and make a tail or a necklace.

I have nothing personal against Iona at all. Hell, back at mercon I risked my neck to get her and her friends into a private party they weren't supposed to be at. That just added to the hurt I felt when she tosses my post into drama, and yet allowed her two friends to post away anything they desire. Really, really shitty things.

I am not all evil. And they are not all sweetness and light.

[Mermaid Star]

And Iona, You do SO much for this community. You put your self and your own money on the line for us to have a place to go and interact with eachother. Thank you from the bottom of my heart to you and Malinghi for doing all of this. You are a fabulous person and a wonderful admin! I know you have kept yourself as a poster out of the boards and have been beyond fair. I have told you in the past, and as Raven has said, that I would never have been able to be as fair as you have been. It is so hard to keep your own emotions out of things and I think you have done the best anyone could have in doing so. You are awesome Iona. Keep your head up and I hope you get to feeling better soon. Healing thoughts are being sent your way. <3

[Mermaid Star]

I think you two should have a real heart to heart. I mean really. Both of you should go into a convo with each other with an open mind knowing that you will be discussing each others actions and really work it out. I know you all were once friends. I would like to see that again. I know there are two sides and eventually 50 sides or more once others witness what ever is taking place.

(This message has been idle on my screen for a while so I hope it is still relevant)

[Merman Chris]

I don't know Star. It would have to be brokered for sure. This ALL started because I made an observation somewhere about the state of tail making and how I saw it developing, and one person took great personal offense to it for some reason even though it had NOTHING to do with them and blew it up into something way, way more than it was. I think they were looking to get into it with me. And everyone piled on, and I was seriously confused by the reaction. I tried to talk it out, but all I got was more bile. Hence why I vanished for two months. But of course, nobody cares about any of that, so I just don't know.

[Mermaid Sirena]

Though I'm not involved in any fashion so my words are pure fluff. I think you would be surprised how many people care about listening to all sides when presented respectfully, I also agree that perhaps having a heart to heart with Winged would be good.

[Merman Chris]

It doesnt matter if youre not involved; you're a smart girl who sees things rather well I have come to notice.

I do want to talk with Iona and work it out. I have nothing against her at all and I realize I was a douche, acting out emotionally.

The other two.....very different circumstances.

[Mermaid Star]

Everyone has reasons for their reactions. I will get into yelling matches with my boyfriend. And I mean yelling and stomping.. only to find out that we were saying the exact same thing, just saying it a different way that made it seem opposite. We realize this after we have cooled off and talk it out. I feel so silly for arguing with him over the same thing. You don't have to say yes to working things out right away (Well you don't have to say yes at all) but perhaps entertain the idea that in the future. That you guys try and work it out. I know you both come from a good place. I really appreciate the way you have come at this today. When you have time, I would like to hear your side, Chris.

[Merman Chris]

Probably not good to discuss in public. If you want my side, feel free to pm me. But I appreciate your openness to understanding. No offense, but normally I would have a very hard time trusting you since you are pals with them. However, you are also close to Linda, whom I adore. And you are cool to Shell. So I will give the benefit of the doubt.

[Mermaid Sirena]

Thank you for the compliment, it is greatly appreciated :) I hope with time all things work out one way or another that is best for all involved, maybe it's friend ship maybe it's being blocked. As long as everyone is happy with the results it doesn't matter, and with that I think this particular part of this thread might be done ^_^

[Sirenade]

Chris,

It is nice to see you making amends with other mers and trying to clarify your actions and intent now that some of the dust has cleared. You brought up some valid points and are doing a good job of not posting with your emotional reactions with this new wave of drama. It is important to understand how much of a struggle this can be for the moderators to be unbiased and on top of everything that is posted between both the network forums and facebook. Plus, all the hidden drama that builds in PMs just slams the rest of the community when it goes public.

It was because of your calling Eric a "completely awful piece of shit" and Matty an "asshole" and a "turd", saying things like "Step up to me and open your mouth, and you will find a fist in it" plus making bigoted comments against homosexuality, plus other nasty personal attacks and provoking ("woof woof"), that I was not surprised when additional drama happened on Raven's post and I quickly realized it was you.

Based on the nasty comments I had seen you post, personal attacks, blaming others, black and white thinking, bigotry, bullying, thinking something that had nothing to do with you was about you (i.e. Thom's post), ad hominem arguments, provoking further fights, framing yourself to be the victim, and degrading other people's work, I had made several assumptions about your character (namely the same personality disorder you accused Eric of having, you, yourself had) that led me to comment "I feel really sorry for his wife and wouldn't be surprised if they are in an emotionally abusive relationship either. It's a shame he is poisoning potential customers against them too."

I was genuinely posting from a feeling of concern for and empathy of Shelly based on my assumptions about your character from the posts I had seen from you and from my experience working with families who have gone through emotional abuse. Your posts were sending off red flag warnings in my head. "I wouldn't be surprised if..." is not the same as me saying you are in an abusive relationship. This was not an attack in any way, but merely a reflection of my observations about your behavior and concern for how it was negatively impacting your wife's business.

I truly hope that people are able to work out whatever miscommunications, defensiveness and offensiveness there is between them so we are able to build on our community rather than let it crumble.

As a side note- I am not on any "side" and have never messaged with Eric, Raina, Raven, MVD or Shelly for that matter. I do not want this post to stir further drama, but just serve as clarification for your concern about people seeing your relationship with Shell as abusive.

[Merman Chris]

Sirenade;

I understand your points, and they are valid. I admit; when provoked to fight, I get downright nasty. It's what I do. And I maintain this is why Raina would continuously bring me drama from here to me on FB, as I was not very active on here. She knew I can fight, and fight nasty. Having problems with Matty? Come tell me all the stuff he said and get me angry; I'll go out there. And I did, for which I now regret. If you don't want the place napalmed, don't get me involved. That does not excuse me, but it explains me.

However, this does not mean I particularly like to fight. Geez, I am old and getting tired! Making up with others I fought with under false pretenses has been of the best things ever. I love the scene, my wife and I have this as our shared passion for over 20 years. It is, effectively, the foundation of our relationship. And it is solid. Just look at the pics of us on the beach in our tails together for the first time; there's no faking that.

I find your explanation behind what you said acceptable and sound. No hard feelings.

[merpirate]

OK in the intrest of making people laugh in the face of drama (And just because sometimes it id good to laugh and honestly I have where else to post this with out it getting taken the wrong way) I present you all with what I have found to be the best insult ever recorded. I would love to memorize this and say it to a few people but for now here watch and laugh. WARNING!!! This is a swearing that last for about 47 seconds and is quite vulgar, rude, crass, off color, blue, lewd, filthy, dirty. So you have been warned
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWzD8vfG1oo

[Gem Stone]

This is the drama thread and it is pointless to write because I have had nothing wrong down to me, but I am upset. I don't know what at, but I am mad and I have no reason for it. I think not having a reason is making me even madder. Have you ever felt this way? I understand no one can change what I feel and considering nothing has been done or said to me, I have no reason to feel this way. But I do. Can anyone relate to me on this point? Does this sound familiar?

[ShyMer]

Is there someone or something in particular that just bothers you, or perhaps are you having mood swings? I have them all the time, and it gets me in a little trouble sometimes :/ Sometimes even small, silly things can set me off, like my husband leaving socks in the middle of the floor, and then I'm all grouchy for the rest of the day.

[Gem Stone]

I'm not sure. But today I feel better. It was probably just mood swings

[Kanti]

Sometimes I get really frustrated when I don't think I've gotten much done that day.
If I sit around when I know I have a lot to do then at the end of the day I'll feel annoyed
that I didn't get anything done.

That's just me, though xD

[Alveric]

This is my favorite insult/curse. It's supposedly of old Viking origin. (By the way, this is just for fun and not aimed at anyone.)

May your longship split beneath you and may your mother be unable to summon aid as she runs up and down the shore, barking.

Alveric

[Nemefish]

CAN WE ALL JUST GET ALONG !!! *TEARS* :(
everyone needs a hug <3

[Thalassa]

This is going to make me sound like a great big jerk, but it frustrates me when people SO MUCH WANT a meet up and then are so picky about it. I'm mentioning it here because it's a most likely passing frustration that simply needs to be let out and let go (because I know myself, I brood XP). IT IS NOT directed at any one mer or situation, more a conglomeration of what I've been seeing here and another place.

But it bothers me when people claim to want to get to know other mers, but won't go to a swimming meet, then won't go to anything aquarium involved because they personally believe the animals are being abused, then won't go to any restaurant serving seafood because their personal beliefs say it's wrong, then won't go to anything "too public" because they don't want their mer-ness known. They won't go to any movie with a romantic plot because it doesn't fit in with their sexual orientation. They won't be around anyone who wears a bikini. One by one they whittle the options down until people decide it's too much work to meet up, and then they whine about no one wanting to get together.

Now, I realize some people have legitimate reasons for these stipulations. But for heaven's sakes, meet them halfway! If you don't swim, please feel free to come and sit by the water and talk. Don't ban other people from sea food just because you don't like it. Personally, I have mild asthma aggravated by cigarette smoke and start feeling sick at the whiff of it. I also believe smoking is wrong and will kill you. However, because some people I like smoke, I don't impose my beliefs on them. If they choose to smoke all I do is make sure they are downwind of me. I make accommodations because I like the people. I have issues that make me nervous around people, but realize that any meet up will be fairly public (at least at first) and deal with that if I want to get together.

I guess the bottom line is: People will be accommodating, but you need to accommodate back. Don't put up a list of don'ts and then wonder why no one "wants" to get together.

*venting over*

[Winged Mermaid]

I feel you Thalassa. It seems super hard to be able to get any kind of meet up together. People are so wary and it's hard to get them motivated to do it. I speak from expierence, but I'll also say it's SO SO much fun if you just DO it! That's why for some meet ups you just need to make a date, place, and time and see who shows up. It's an ice breaker, and you can't make it a good time and day for everyone involved (at least no most of the time). Limiting things down from there makes is so hard becuase just getting people to travel the distance and attend on a set day and time is hard enough.

I agree, it's certainly not any one merperson or situation, but I've seen it over and over, over time. And over time it really wears on you. Compromise is certainly a big part of things. People need to realize that you have to have some give if you want anything to happen. I know people are use to things catering to them, since this is the age of convenience (and look where that's getting the human race and the planet by the way..)- but it comes down to how much do they really want to be involved. Sometimes if you can't compromise or work for it, then you can't be involved, and that's just life. I mean, I'm sure not everyone likes exactly how this website functions, but it's what we have and if you don't like it, don't use it. Same idea.

[Blondie]

This is going to make me sound like a great big jerk, but it frustrates me when people SO MUCH WANT a meet up and then are so picky about it. I'm mentioning it here because it's a most likely passing frustration that simply needs to be let out and let go (because I know myself, I brood XP). IT IS NOT directed at any one mer or situation, more a conglomeration of what I've been seeing here and another place.

But it bothers me when people claim to want to get to know other mers, but won't go to a swimming meet, then won't go to anything aquarium involved because they personally believe the animals are being abused, then won't go to any restaurant serving seafood because their personal beliefs say it's wrong, then won't go to anything "too public" because they don't want their mer-ness known. They won't go to any movie with a romantic plot because it doesn't fit in with their sexual orientation. They won't be around anyone who wears a bikini. One by one they whittle the options down until people decide it's too much work to meet up, and then they whine about no one wanting to get together.

Now, I realize some people have legitimate reasons for these stipulations. But for heaven's sakes, meet them halfway! If you don't swim, please feel free to come and sit by the water and talk. Don't ban other people from sea food just because you don't like it. Personally, I have mild asthma aggravated by cigarette smoke and start feeling sick at the whiff of it. I also believe smoking is wrong and will kill you. However, because some people I like smoke, I don't impose my beliefs on them. If they choose to smoke all I do is make sure they are downwind of me. I make accommodations because I like the people. I have issues that make me nervous around people, but realize that any meet up will be fairly public (at least at first) and deal with that if I want to get together.

I guess the bottom line is: People will be accommodating, but you need to accommodate back. Don't put up a list of don'ts and then wonder why no one "wants" to get together.

*venting over*

PREACH SISTER PREACH

All though I'll be honest. I don't like my "mer-ness" to be public just because well, I don't have anyone who really gets it around here. Now, if I were at a meet up or with a group of mers, I'd probably go nuts with it! So I'm just shy to do it by myself I guess...

ANYWAYS, to everything else you said, I know exactly what you mean. It really makes me itch when people have a problem with everything in life. Like when people don't want to watch a movie because there's a sex scene in it. GUESS WHAT! Almost everyone in the world will have sex in their life, it's NATURAL.

And, no offense to vegetarians, I get really ticked when vegetarians get up your ass about eating meat. "It's cruel! What if someone ate you! We shouldn't kill!" People have been killing cows, pigs, and chickens since the dawn of time. It's HEALTHY to eat meat. All though there are some very rare cruel slaughter houses, many slaughter houses actually give animals a swift and painless death. Slaughter houses are clean and have high standards. If all slaughter houses were cruel and gross, no one would be eating meat right now.

Hypocrites suck too..

[Ayla of Duluth]

-sacrifices myself to jump in the middle of this drama mosh pit and make a complete fool out of myself-
WHY CAN'T WE BE FRIENDS? WHY CAN'T WE BE FRIENDS? ...I don't know the rest of the lyrics...

[Princess Kae-Leah]

Let me clarify, I have an autism spectrum disorder, and being around the scent of seafood and perfume makes me feel stressed and agitated. It is NOT to push my personal beliefs on others, but to feel comfortable.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

Being asexual, graphic sex scenes makes me feel physically ill. Just like my ASD, I was BORN THIS WAY, just as 99% ppl are born sexual.

[Winged Mermaid]

Kae-Leah no one was meaning to attack you personally. From reading this a lot of the stuff people are frustrated about aren't about you. Some of that could include you but people were just blowing off steam so it WOULDN'T end up with frustration and resentment that would get let out in another thread.

On the other hand I'm sure they didn't know it made you physically ill. No, of course it isn't your fault! But on the other hand you can't expect people to cater to you 100% of the time, especially since you're in the 1% of the population. Sometimes you just gotta compromise. People will work around your needs sometimes, but some times you have to work around them too! For instance you might watch a G or PG rated film sometimes, but sometimes not. If there are a few scenes in movies that would make you ill, then have someone warn you that the scene is coming up, excuse yourself, and leave the room for a few minutes until it's over. Make/have a snack, go to the bathroom, stretch a little, then come back. If it's extra long maybe you could get on the computer (if it's at anothers house you can always ask permission), or get some fresh air.


I nearly had a panic attack and nearly threw up a few times when encountering people eating seafood when I was in a sensitive state. First time lobster was ever put in front of me for example.. that was a BAD bad day. I excused myself for some fresh air and actually went to get fresh air, did some deep breathing, went to the bathroom, took some chamomile tincture or anxiety meds (depending on how bad it was), and went back. By then they were pretty finished with what set me off and I could handle it better. I've also put essential oil under my nose for smells that were freaking me out. Not saying that would solve things, but it may be something to try. Sometimes you run into things when you aren't expecting them (like if you're out shopping), and it's nice to have on hand then too (plus if you pick the right one it blocks the smell AND is calming and balancing/uplifting!) If you are made ill by the smell of seafood, and get upset around it because of your opinion, then perhaps if there is a meet up where people want to eat seafood you could compromise and get something like sushi. You could get a non seafood food of course. It's not aromatic in a seafood/fishy kind of way, not obviously seafood (like crab legs or oysters would be), and it's not like people will want to get sushi every time there's a meet up either.


I'm not saying that people have any right to be insensitive about your issues. But in life there's always give and take. If you just take all the time, rather than giving a little once in a while, then people aren't going to want to give any more. I'm not accusing you of that either, I'm just saying that the phrase "bend or break" applies, and that if you bend a little and they bend a little, then you won't break relationships. I'm not trying to criticize, I'm trying to be more helpful and give some perspective I hope I'm not offending you doing so.

[Morticia Mermaid]

Ok. This has been something that is REALLY starting to get on my nerves and if I don't get it out I am going to explode.

I have been busting my butt to get my tail making going, researching and studying. Looking for the bet materials and trying to figure out the best processes. When I got started getting it together, pretty much no one was excited... But here comes a new "silicone tail" maker who, from what I can tell, still doesn't quite understand what they are doing, and people are fricking ecstatic, can't wait for prices, etc... WHAT THE HELL?!?!

What the hell am I? Chopped fricking liver? I may not make silicone tail, but seriously? My tails will be just as good as any silicone tail. And it is really starting to piss me off. So much for equally showing support for ALL tail makers. All anyone fricking cares about are those who make silicone tails.

Really makes me wonder why I am even bothering, because all anyone wants anymore are CHEAP realistic tails. Well I'll tell you what. You WONT find a CHEAP silicone tail that isn't actually CHEAP. Cheap products are made with CHEAP materials.

I am all for new silicone tail makers, but really people? Everyone really needs to start showing equal support because its not just about having the most realistic tail possible. And people should REALLY get all the kinks worked out of the product they intend to provide before actually trying to sell them. Thats a great way to get reported to the BBB.

[seagirls626]

Really Lexia, you need to calm down. First of all, what kind of tails do you make? I know how upsetting it can be when no one buys anything from you immediately, but you need to be patient. Of course no one is going to buy anything from you immediately because your new and they probably just want some reassuring reviews to know that your product is safe to use. People are only excited for new silicone tail makers because a lot of people can't really afford silicone tails, so when a new tail maker comes along, they're excited to see if they're silicone tails are affordable. Not everyone wants a silicone tail you know. I have a silicone and a fabric tail and I love them both equally. You might want to consider taking your post down, because if a new buyer sees it, they might not want to buy from you anymore. I know I wouldn't after that.

[seagirls626]

Oh and another thing, after you take your post down (if you do), you could add yourself as a tail maker at mermaidtails.net because a lot of buyers look there for tail makers.

[Ashe]

Now, I don't want any drama when I say this!
Seagirls, not to be rude, but she was just getting something off her chest. Lexia has put so much time, effort and money into making her dream come true, and yet, she seems to be getting very little support. Her post makes me want to purchase a tail from her even more because now I know how much she wants this, and that she can be honest and talk freely. You are being very disrespectful to Lexia by telling her to take down her post and I kindly wish for you to stop. This is a thread where we are encouraged to talk freely about the issues we are having and not be judged. If you want a thread all about critisism feel free to make one, but i'm not sure how long that would last. Mernetwork is for us mers to come together and share ideas, tips, and inner feelings​ with eachother and not have to fear judgement. :)

[Mermaid Momo]

Lexia, I am actually very interested in your tails, but I prefer to make my own. That said,I think what you need to get mers really excited about your business is more photos of your tails. Show us what you can do, your best points, how well you can paint the tails even if they aren't realistic silicone. Basically, make a few tails with different paint jobs and whatever else you offer and flash them around a bit, show some w.i.p pictures of tails and painting swatches and let people know when you're trying something new (nothing renews interest like a bit of curiosity).
Also Lexia, swimming videos will probably open up your business and get lots of people interested in your tails because i know that i personally love watching swimming videos and seeing how tails look and move in the water.
@kalani, i think seagirl meant no harm. She probably doesn't want anyone to use what Lexia said against her in the future. but you are right, this thread is for venting, letting your feelings and thoughts out to people who can offer help and support, and Lexia was right to post here, it makes me see all the more how much of a dedicated tail maker she is and how much she really wants this.

[Mermaid Melusinah]

*comes out from the depths*
I really rarely post... but here i will. and all i will simply say is this. Kalani is right. I know Lexia better then anyone here.... I've known her for YEARS. Trust me when i say, she has literally put her heart and SOUL into this. and apart from the very few of us that do offer support and encouragement every way we can, she gets very little support. She has put SO MUCH of her own personal savings, her time and effort, etc into this. And while nothing happens instantly, it can be EXTREMELY hard to be beat down and hit road block after road block. It's a dream of hers, and she is frustrated and feels that every day that dream is slipping farther away. And while its just slow coming, it will happen. it just takes time. Its a HARD, competitive, and some times damn brutal thing to get into, tail making. But i'll be damned if i have ever seen a woman less passionate and with less drive for the things she wants then Lexia. But like all things, we all hit a point where we can only take so much of a beating before we have to just let it go and get mad for a bit. And that is what this thread is about. So yes, talking freely and openly here is perfectly acceptable.

Lexia is working pretty damn hard with the situation she has to work with. And I commend her for sticking with it as long as she has, and NOT giving up. She's going to be working with me on my tail and i am super excited about this.

Honestly, I am really ready to see success come her way, she's fighting for it hard enough thats for sure....

*swims back to her deep seas*

[Mermaid Melusinah]

Lexia, I am actually very interested in your tails, but I prefer to make my own. That said,I think what you need to get mers really excited about your business is more photos of your tails. Show us what you can do, your best points, how well you can paint the tails even if they aren't realistic silicone. Basically, make a few tails with different paint jobs and whatever else you offer and flash them around a bit, show some w.i.p pictures of tails and painting swatches and let people know when you're trying something new (nothing renews interest like a bit of curiosity).
Also Lexia, swimming videos will probably open up your business and get lots of people interested in your tails because i know that i personally love watching swimming videos and seeing how tails look and move in the water.

Its very hard to do when the funds are being taken directly from her savings. She is using her OWN presonal money to get things going. she has tried kickstarter and all the other things out there without success... yet she's still pushing.
She is literally going out at this COMPLETELY from scratch. so keep in mind that she has to be able to FUND things like "multiple examples" and that on a personal budget of a grown adult with other daily living bills is VERY hard to do. But she is doing what she can... Stay excited and keep your eyes for the horizons, good things are coming!

[roamingmer]

To be honest - there are too many 'young, ooh sparkly, new' posts on this forum - which is a pity because there used to be many decent interesting threads about how to improve as professional mer-person; how to improve free diving; how to build and make tails (if so inclined); who to purchase from and the pros and cons. Conservation and the world of the sea.

I really can understand Lexia; she worked her butt off to help Tony out after his previous tail was stolen and whilst the community rallied around at the beginning... it soon disappeared as the shoal attended to the latest sparkly underwater jewels or shells or Christmas Tree gifts. Oh well I will keep my respected distance; I always did (in real life as well) and give my support to those who need it and not those who demand with the loudest voice.

[Morticia Mermaid]

Seagirls. I've already tried contacting that site and got no response from anyone. I have been making tails since the beginning of september. And I have been studying clothing production and materials for just over 4 years. I took the time to actually get diver certified so I could test the tails further than what other tailmakers do. I've put over $3,000 into my work.

Thank you Kalani, daggersprez, and roaming. All I was truly doing is venting something that I have kept in since I started making tails. If I didn't let it out, I was going to explode and probably break something, which I'm not fond of doing ^^'

Melu~ I love you sis. You've given me the most support and have been by me since I started this. You are one of the few that I couldn't do this without. And you are right. My fiance lives in south Cali, and I live in northern Oregon. I'm supposed to be going home next summer, to be with him, but only if I've got the money saved up to be able to actually go (having enough money for several months rent and deposit until I can find work). So I have been using the money that I have been saving up to go home, on my work. I always tell people that they need to do research on a tailmaker before they buy from them. Any questions anyone asks me, I answer honestly. I have put a lot more into my tailmaking than people think.

[AniaR]

honestly, this is the thread for bitching :D bitch away everyone! <3

[seagirls626]

I wasn't trying to be rude or disrespectful at all! I was just simply giving advice and dishing out my opinion. Is their something wrong with that? I'm sorry if you took it too harshly. I didn't mean to be harsh. At the time, I was also upset at her for what she said to mermaid Celissa in the chat box. That might have also encouraged the harshness of it all.

[seagirls626]

And also, I started my own business a while ago and I didn't get any support for that either, so I know how Lexia feels in a way, but she also should understand that it takes a lot of time, money and patience to start your own business.

[Morticia Mermaid]

I understand that seagirl. Better than you think. 4 years studying materials, and other $3,000 into my business since september. So yeah, I know. I know what I am doing and what I am talking about. So please stop treating me like I am a fricking idiot.

[seagirls626]

I wasn't treating you like an idiot. I don't even know you! I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way.

[seagirls626]

And Lexia, I am very sorry that your business is not a success so far. I honestly really like your stuff! I would buy some of it if it wasn't for you being so rude to me right now.

[Morticia Mermaid]

but she also should understand that it takes a lot of time, money and patience to start your own business.

^That sounds to me like you are calling me an idiot. And you're right, you DON'T know me, so you DON'T know the daily shit I have to deal with. Again, as I have said many times before, I've put over $3,000 of my own personal savings (money that I have been saving for the last 2 years to be able to go home to my fiance) into this business. I have been entirely patient since September and kept quiet since I started making tails. It seriously pisses me off that people are accusing me of not knowing what I am doing.

[Mermaid Momo]

Its very hard to do when the funds are being taken directly from her savings. She is using her OWN presonal money to get things going. she has tried kickstarter and all the other things out there without success... yet she's still pushing.
She is literally going out at this COMPLETELY from scratch. so keep in mind that she has to be able to FUND things like "multiple examples" and that on a personal budget of a grown adult with other daily living bills is VERY hard to do. But she is doing what she can... Stay excited and keep your eyes for the horizons, good things are coming!
hmm, in that case, do you have any left over fabric scraps Lexia? if you have enough or should i say a big enough piece to cut out squares, you could make paint swatches to show around on your FB and what not of how your painted scales will look or how well you can blend colors.



To be honest - there are too many 'young, ooh sparkly, new' posts on this forum - which is a pity because there used to be many decent interesting threads about how to improve as professional mer-person; how to improve free diving; how to build and make tails (if so inclined); who to purchase from and the pros and cons. Conservation and the world of the sea.

I really can understand Lexia; she worked her butt off to help Tony out after his previous tail was stolen and whilst the community rallied around at the beginning... it soon disappeared as the shoal attended to the latest sparkly underwater jewels or shells or Christmas Tree gifts. Oh well I will keep my respected distance; I always did (in real life as well) and give my support to those who need it and not those who demand with the loudest voice.
That's how everything and almost everyone is sadly. New things always captivate people because they're well; new. But people also see new things as being able to help them as a professional mer ( if i get this new realistic tail, i'll get more customers).

[seagirls626]

When did I ever accuse you of being an idiot or not knowing what your doing?

[Morticia Mermaid]

but she also should understand that it takes a lot of time, money and patience to start your own business.

^Right there... Or did you miss the quote. Because those are your exact words.

[Morticia Mermaid]

hmm, in that case, do you have any left over fabric scraps Lexia? if you have enough or should i say a big enough piece to cut out squares, you could make paint swatches to show around on your FB and what not of how your painted scales will look or how well you can blend colors.

I've actually been working on that the last couple nights. Just have to borrow a camera to get some decent photos of them, my camera blurs the colors

[Morticia Mermaid]

And Lexia, I am very sorry that your business is not a success so far. I honestly really like your stuff! I would buy some of it if it wasn't for you being so rude to me right now.

How am I being rude? YOU'RE THE ONE WHO TOLD ME TO TAKE MY POST DOWN OFF OF A VENTING THREAD. You have accused me of not knowing how much time, money and patients it takes to start a business. But excuse me, I do. I VENTED on the VENTING thread. If that means you don't buy from me, that is fine by me. As far as I care right now, you can BACK OFF.

"lost a potential customer" Really? I am not that concerned about it right now because you have been exceptionally rude to me. Telling me to take down a venting post on a venting thread. Telling people what I really should and shouldn't do or know. I'm glad I wont have to make something for someone so rude.

[Mermaid Momo]

I've actually been working on that the last couple nights. Just have to borrow a camera to get some decent photos of them, my camera blurs the colors
hate it when my camera doesn't act right (mine is usually always too dark or too bright.) Also Lexia, check out your Shadow Fancy FB messages. I sent you a don't worry gift :)

[Morticia Mermaid]

hate it when my camera doesn't act right (mine is usually always too dark or too bright.) Also Lexia, check out your Shadow Fancy FB messages. I sent you a don't worry gift :)

Did you send me a picture? For some reason facebook isn't letting me receive pictures. If its the message you sent earlier, I responded :)

[Mermaid Momo]

okeedokes, i'll go check my FB :)

[seagirls626]

Ok, I do admit that it was wrong for me to ask you to take the post down, and I apologize for that. I wasn't trying to be rude in the first place, I was trying more to give you advice. I only called you rude because I was trying to apologize in a distinct way, but you didn't get the hint and kept on going. That's all right. I forgive you and I hope you can forgive me too.

[Ayla of Duluth]

-popcorn-

[Spindrift]

Lexia dear, the fact of the matter is that these ladies already have tails made to show to world, and that has been their fin in the door. When customers can see the product in action, it piques their interest. And personally, it's not the fact that it's silicone that interested me, but that they were a different design to what is normally seen around here.

Finfolk are not around to make you feel uncomfortable, nor is any other tailmaker. Don't take it to heart. Observe, learn, be open to criticism and be mature enough to grow from it so you can build a profitable business. I'm very certain your tails will be lovely as well!

I can agree with this.

[Morticia Mermaid]

You know what really is pissing me off? This site. Everyone claims equal support, not attacking each other. Well ya know what, I make a simple observation and nothing more, not accusing anyone of anything, and now I am an evil person and being called a hypocrite. People need to get their facts straight before jumping to conclusions and making assumptions. It's shocking how little research people do on this site. I find it sad that people aren't willing to ask the questions themselves.

[AniaR]

You know what really is pissing me off? This site. Everyone claims equal support, not attacking each other. Well ya know what, I make a simple observation and nothing more, not accusing anyone of anything, and now I am an evil person and being called a hypocrite. People need to get their facts straight before jumping to conclusions and making assumptions. It's shocking how little research people do on this site. I find it sad that people aren't willing to ask the questions themselves.

Is this directed at me? All I did was point out that your observation was wrong, in a kind way. :/ All Lanai did was confirm that what I thought, was indeed correct. There was no attacking, nothing rudely worded to you, nothing personal. I correct information on mernetwork all the time. And to be honest, it wasn't an observation that needed to be voiced. I feel like a lot of the threads you post in are now always turning into a way to look down on fishbutts. Stop concentrating so much on what other tail makers do and don't do. You're going to drive yourself insane, and set yourself up for a lot of pressure when people expect you to be better than everyone else. I know the other tail makers I am close with find a lot of pressure to not make the mistakes that other tail makers have made, and live up to expectation.

I appreciate that you have your criticisms of fishbutts, I think you're allowed to have them to a degree as an observer- but you haven't purchased from them. You criticized Stevi for a lot of things that it seems like you're doing now. I'm not accusing you of anything, I think everyone is just getting worn out with the feud. I think you do a good job of starting out trying to keep things facts only and avoiding drama, but then when people don't agree with you that's when it starts to melt into drama. Mernetwork isn't a bad place if people don't agree with you, it doesn't mean people don't support you and your company either. I know you and know you're a very passionate about what you do and your desire to make mermaid tails accessible to all sorts of people. You've got a lot of drive, and determination. I've agreed with some of the bigger points you've made before, even though I disagree with other ones. But I think because you've critiqued fishbutts so much recently, it's very hard for anyone to view your statements as neutral at this point. In the very same way it's hard for people to read my mertailor comments as neutral, because I have a history of being very critical of mertailor. I want people to take the comments I do make seriously, so I've gone to great lengths to either not comment, or be neutral, and to communicate with Eric so we can move past our issues. But I have to recognize, at this point, when people read my comments, especially if I bring mertailor up out of nowhere, it looks like I'm stuck on him and choosing to obsess over him.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Dramadramadrama here's a drama there's a drama and another little drama drama drama drama drama, DRAMA? F***.

[Usagi]

You forgot one "drama" in there... :P

[Ayla of Duluth]

Here's a drama, there's a drama, and another little drama, drama's drama tastes of drama, drama drama f**k
FTFY

[Spindrift]

@Lexia: I can find nowhere on the site where someone has called you evil or a hypocrite? Am I missing something? If people are saying something to you online or attacking you on this site, you should probably let an admin know, especially if someone is bothering you. The admins do a pretty good job at mediating virtual conflicts.

[Whisper]

After speaking with Lexia, privately, I believe she has relayed information to the admins. The correspondence she received, directly, from someone from this forum was very rude, belittling, derogatory, and bordered on abusive.

I know that many here will have to agree to disagree regarding many subject matters here. But there was no call for some of the things that were said to her by this person privately. So some of her references may correlate to what was said in those messages.

Just my thought from a newbie...

[Mermaid Melusinah]

After speaking with Lexia, privately, I believe she has relayed information to the admins. The correspondence she received, directly, from someone from this forum was very rude, belittling, derogatory, and bordered on abusive.

I know that many here will have to agree to disagree regarding many subject matters here. But there was no call for some of the things that were said to her by this person privately. So some of her references may correlate to what was said in those messages.

Just my thought from a newbie...


I am Lexia's dear and close friend. we talk daily. I help manage the site too. this is basically in a nut shell what happened. I wont say who or what was said. I dont dig up old things. But yes, it was completely uncalled for. More then anything Lexia was trying to be helpful at first, which was taken the entirely wrong way and the person Jumped and escalated. More then anything, Lexia is always a kind person that just tries to help, even if others take it the wrong way....

That's all im going to say about it. *lets it settle back down*

[Winged Mermaid]

After speaking with Lexia, privately, I believe she has relayed information to the admins. The correspondence she received, directly, from someone from this forum was very rude, belittling, derogatory, and bordered on abusive.

I've gotten no messages concerning this. This is, of course, her choice if she chooses to disclose information and ask for help. But I would urge anyone who receives this kind of behavior from someone to notify an admin. You can even chose to notify Malinghi for some reason you do not feel comfortable doing so with me, or feel you need a different perspective. We can't help if we don't know what's going on!

[Ashe]

I just turned off PM's all together (except for admins). Weird people were just saying weird things and I really just don't want to deal with it. :/

[Morticia Mermaid]

I've gotten no messages concerning this. This is, of course, her choice if she chooses to disclose information and ask for help. But I would urge anyone who receives this kind of behavior from someone to notify an admin. You can even chose to notify Malinghi for some reason you do not feel comfortable doing so with me, or feel you need a different perspective. We can't help if we don't know what's going on!

Iona, I reported the message being mentioned yesterday. And I emailed you about it today, but have gotten no response. I know you saw the other message I sent just before it. I wont disclose names, but this is the message I received
9219

That message was completely and totally uncalled for, and I said and did nothing that deserved a message as such

[AniaR]

you realize, this all started... because someone bitched in the bitch section, appropriately without identifying anyone? Honestly, we have a bitch section, we have a drama section. It's what it's FOR. No rules were broken as far as the bitch post was concerned. I see a common thread here and in many recent issues. People taking offence when it's not given. Offence can't really be given, it can only be taken, as the famous quote goes. If someone experiences harassment, then yeah, contact the mods. But honestly, Lanai isn't the only one who wants to bitch about behaviour on the site, and she did it in an appropriate way as far as the POST is concerned. Disappointing it's gotten to the point that a whole family is now on the site, and a bunch of nasty PMs were exchanged. :(


O.O What the heck. That's just messed up, and completely uncalled for, Lex. I'm sorry sorry, but just know that is so not true and that person must have something seriously wrong with them to go saying that you talk down to people and you are smug, and then call you a bi**h behind everyone's back! Again, so sorry that you are getting bagged on by people like that.

Keep in mind you aren't getting the full context, and either way, mods will deal with that appropriately. It's funny, I thought the whole purpose of private messaging was to engage in private conversation with people. I guess all along I should have been posting my own private messages to back things up. :bulldozer:

[Morticia Mermaid]

you realize, this all started... because someone bitched in the bitch section, appropriately without identifying anyone? Honestly, we have a bitch section, we have a drama section. It's what it's FOR. No rules were broken. I see a common thread here and in many recent issues. People taking offence when it's not given. Offence can't really be given, it can only be taken, as the famous quote goes. If someone experiences harassment, then yeah, contact the mods. But honestly, Lanai isn't the only one who wants to bitch about behaviour on the site, and she did it in an appropriate way as far as the POST is concerned. Disappointing it's gotten to the point that a whole family is now on the site, and a bunch of nasty PMs were exchanged. :(



Keep in mind you aren't getting the full context, and either way, mods will deal with that appropriately. It's funny, I thought the whole purpose of private messaging was to engage in private conversation with people. I guess all along I should have been posting my own private messages to back things up.

So my mom isn't allowed to have an account even though I have been trying to get her into mermaiding since I started, because it will be good for her health? Melu is my adopted sister.

And as for posting the message I received. I posted it because I wasn't receiving ANY response from Iona at all, who as far as I knew was a moderator, yes? The message I recieved, I received yesterday, which is when I took the screen shot. There were also private messages between Lanai and myself where I was trying to explain that I offered, and was trying to help Stevi. But, I got nothing but rude, snippy comments back.

[AniaR]

So my mom isn't allowed to have an account even though I have been trying to get her into mermaiding since I started, because it will be good for her health? Melu is my adopted sister.

I didn't say that, did I? At the end of the day, when we disagree with you, we don't have our moms and sisters joining the site to back us up. I didn't suggest your mother couldn't also enjoy mermaiding and be interested in it.

[Mermaid Melusinah]

Melu is my adopted sister.



And not even legitimately. We are close friends for about 5 years. have always called each other sis.... :/ Sorry for that sort of confusion. We dont even live in the same state.... :/

[Morticia Mermaid]

I didn't say that, did I? At the end of the day, when we disagree with you, we don't have our moms and sisters joining the site to back us up. I didn't suggest your mother couldn't also enjoy mermaiding and be interested in it.

I didn't have them join to "back me up". I don't need anyone backing me up because I haven't done anything that deserves needing to be backed up. Mel joined of her own accord, and so did Whisper.

[Ayla of Duluth]

you realize, this all started... because someone bitched in the bitch section, appropriately without identifying anyone? Honestly, we have a bitch section, we have a drama section. It's what it's FOR. No rules were broken as far as the bitch post was concerned. I see a common thread here and in many recent issues. People taking offence when it's not given. Offence can't really be given, it can only be taken, as the famous quote goes. If someone experiences harassment, then yeah, contact the mods. But honestly, Lanai isn't the only one who wants to bitch about behaviour on the site, and she did it in an appropriate way as far as the POST is concerned. Disappointing it's gotten to the point that a whole family is now on the site, and a bunch of nasty PMs were exchanged. :(



Keep in mind you aren't getting the full context, and either way, mods will deal with that appropriately. It's funny, I thought the whole purpose of private messaging was to engage in private conversation with people. I guess all along I should have been posting my own private messages to back things up. :bulldozer:
Am I the only one who sees a random bulldozer next to this post? O,,o

[Ashe]

Keep in mind you aren't getting the full context, and either way, mods will deal with that appropriately. It's funny, I thought the whole purpose of private messaging was to engage in private conversation with people. I guess all along I should have been posting my own private messages to back things up. :bulldozer:
Hmm, yeah, I guess you're right, I don't know the background or anything really about the subject, and it was wrong of me to jump to a conclusion when I really don't have a thing to do with any of this drama. All I saw was someone getting bullied but that might not be entirely true. I just hope that things will work out in the community so we can all get back to blowing bubble rings and splashing around :)

[AniaR]

:bulldozer::bulldozer::bulldozer::bulldozer::bulld ozer: I dub this the drama bulldozer. It takes all the posts away.

[SeaGlass Siren]

I also see a bulldozer ayla.


Back on topic.

In Raina defense, she didn't attack anyone.
in lexia's defense, it's just a misunderstanding.

Can we all continue to be nicer to each other now?

[Morticia Mermaid]

I also see a bulldozer ayla.


Back on topic.

In Raina defense, she didn't attack anyone.
in lexia's defense, it's just a misunderstanding.

Can we all continue to be nicer to each other now?

I'm all for what Andrea said.

[Mermaid Cascada]

Can I just say this? I am not choosing sides or anything but come on! If anyone has a problem handle it like and adult and quit acting my age lol. No cussing, no rudeness just talk it out and if Lexia's Mom wants to join in on mermaiding more power to her oh and btw welcome to the site lol.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Great! Now let's sip some bubbly, eat caviar before they hatch, have crowds of shell fish cracked and peeled for us to dine, and break into a broadway musical number!

[Ashe]

YAY!!! HAPPINESS AND PONIES AND RAINBOWS AND FRIENDSHIP EXPLODING EVERYWHERE IN GIANT VOLCANOES OF LOVE!!!!

[Ayla of Duluth]

well this is the bitch it out thread... kind of the one place where mers are allowed to be snippity.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Yeah but there bitching, and then there's catfish fight.

[AniaR]

I'm all for what Andrea said.

Agreed. Lexi and I are both passionate people :D which makes for lots of good. But also makes for lots of passionate arguments :D

:bulldozer:don't you love my drama bulldozer?

[Odette]

look at how civil everyone is being! <3 no violent threats or anything. :group hug:

[SeaGlass Siren]

It's because mernetwork has a new drama bulldozer lol

[drucilla]

I've been reasearching and working on my tail for GOD knows how long, all based off of different fish mind you, then I go to read a forum and find someone else also wants a tail based on that fish... Grr... I'm not angry at any person I'm angry cause I feel like I wasted all of my time on something that I guess isn't as original as I thought. I'm mad at myself because I guess all the ideas I have are common? Is that the word I should use? I mean I don't care that someone else has the one of same fish to inspire a tail, because everyone has a right to their own opinions and it's not like it can be copyrighted, so please don't feel that I'm venting about someone else, just the anger I have for myself is all. I had hoped I came up with something original, now I'm scared that if I continue persue this tail people will say I stole the idea... The only reason I posted it here is beacuse I have no other way of getting it out so please forgive me if I offended anyone, it is not my intention. Thank you.

[Usagi]

Nothing wrong with having the same tail as someone...you guys can just be twinsies! Haha

[Dacora]

I've been reasearching and working on my tail for GOD knows how long, all based off of different fish mind you, then I go to read a forum and find someone else also wants a tail based on that fish... Grr... I'm not angry at any person I'm angry cause I feel like I wasted all of my time on something that I guess isn't as original as I thought. I'm mad at myself because I guess all the ideas I have are common? Is that the word I should use? I mean I don't care that someone else has the one of same fish to inspire a tail, because everyone has a right to their own opinions and it's not like it can be copyrighted, so please don't feel that I'm venting about someone else, just the anger I have for myself is all. I had hoped I came up with something original, now I'm scared that if I continue persue this tail people will say I stole the idea... The only reason I posted it here is beacuse I have no other way of getting it out so please forgive me if I offended anyone, it is not my intention. Thank you.


Look at all the Orca mers or mers who plan to have an Orca tail. Or the Koi/Goldfish mermaid tails or even the orange splash tails. Im almost done with my Goldfish tail and im happy to see others do Koi/Goldfish themes too. It gives the mer community a more realistic feel in my opinion. There is not only one koi in the world, there are millions. So its only right that more than one mer gets to have a tail like one.

Real fish can not be copyrighted. If its something you have worked on for awhile then go for it.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[drucilla]

Look at all the Orca mers or mers who plan to have an Orca tail. Or the Koi/Goldfish mermaid tails or even the orange splash tails. Im almost done with my Goldfish tail and im happy to see others do Koi/Goldfish themes too. It gives the mer community a more realistic feel in my opinion. There is not only one koi in the world, there are millions. So its only right that more than one mer gets to have a tail like one.

Real fish can not be copyrighted. If its something you have worked on for awhile then go for it.

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Lol I said it couldn't be copyrighted. :P :) I was not mad that other people had similar ideas, I was mad cause I couldn't come up with something unique but I'm sure it's not possible if you're going off of real fish, that have been seen before. lol One day something original will come from my mind but then I'll forget to write it down lol. I'm not upset about it anymore I just needed a space to put my feelings out there so it could be released from my body. That's all it was, thank you for your help though. :)

[SeaGlass Siren]

drucilla, what about a jellyfish mermaid tail ;)

[drucilla]

Lol that'd be a shocking experience

[Ariel-Starfish]

U know what makes me really mad? (I'm sorry to put it up again *DRAMAAAAHH* But i can't stand it anymore:mad:

The fact Mertailor is copying Merbellas (Raven) AGAIN! Not only her tails, tops and jewelery...even her photo shoots! Arggh, it's p*ssing me off!

Original :https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=477999268922825&set=a.186311664758255.47942.178589958863759&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=477999268922825&set=a.186311664758255.47942.178589958863759&type=1&theater

and copy:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=592017964149123&set=a.132774660073458.23984.130816216935969&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=592017964149123&set=a.132774660073458.23984.130816216935969&type=1&theater

[ShyMer]

actually I feel like I've seen the mertailor picture before. Sometimes he'll repost older images. I could be remembering incorrectly of course.

[Usagi]

The caption said it's from summer 2012. I don't get why there has to be this giant war, though. Why can't they just be supportive of each other. /:

[Ariel-Starfish]

Well, yess! But I think he's so fake :(

[Ayla of Duluth]

I feel like the Mertailor does copy a lot of Raven's designs, but I don't think there's a whole lot that can be done about it. Copiers gonna copy. The only thing that can be done is for people to decide who sells better quality tails.

[seagirls626]

I would have to say that I've seen more happy Merbella customers than Mertailors. Not that I'm taking sides or anything. It just seems like Raven sells what she promises, while the Mertailor doesn't always sell what was advertised.

[Mermaid Pickles]

I then I just realized my avvie is a good example of what I sit and do when I feel like this and don't talk to anyone. O.o Odd.

[AniaR]

it's the never ending war called "business" LOL. I know people get fired up and feel defensive for Raven, but she's usually too damn busy to pay attention. I mean to be honest, it would make sense that tail makers would get photos of them with a bunch of their tails :p

[Winged Mermaid]

Right? What tailmaker doesn't want a picture in a pile of amazing tails???
I think we all are extremely familiar with the "who did it first" game, and I find it hard to care anymore, honestly. There are some tailmakers who will copy anything another tailmaker does, and in a lot of cases with that, every time it's a lower quality than the first. But for me when that happens I just laugh because it's so obvious, and looks worse than the original. This is not just talking those specific makers, but between a lot of different tail makers.

[Usagi]

I would be a terrible business person..I'd always be like, Hey! Your stuff looks really good! Congratulations! You're so awesome! Blah blah blah Haha on the topic of copying...RAINA, do you mind if I model my shell top after yours? I haven't the slightest clue where to begin..Haha it's perfectly fine to say no, I'll figure it out myself lol also, I've fallen in love with Raven's new fluke..do you think she would mind if I tried to make one like it? (once I get around to making my latex tail. I know hers aren't latex, but blah lol) again, no is perfectly acceptable. I'm just one big copycat :P meow!

[Usagi]

Oh I guess I should say her new fluke design..the one that looks like a dragon wing Haha

[AniaR]

It doens't bother me, but I didn't make my tops, one of them was made by Cydney and the other by Raven! So maybe ask them? I think so long as you do your own spin it shouldn't be a big deal. There is only so many ways to make a mer-top

[Usagi]

Gotcha. Thanks, m'lady!

[Winged Mermaid]

It's always good to ask :) I loved Ravens tops back when she used the sticky bra bases, and I decided I wanted one. I asked her ahead of time if she would be alright with me making one like it, and she said that she didn't mind as long as I made my own spin on it and didn't make mine a exact copy of hers. Most people are alright if you ask and make it more your take on a certian thing than trying to copy it exactly.
That's another reason why I don't go all drama llama (anymore anway :P) over the "who did it first" game as well. We all draw on each other for inspiration, but as long as we try and make it different (and with our own unique styles) with the same general concept I think that's acceptable. It helps to ask, but just becuase someone made something with a certian material or general shape does not mean that person "owns" it. It the line between ripping someone's design off and making it your own inspired by theirs.

[Usagi]

Is email the best way to get in touch with Raven? I know she gets swamped with emails..and where can I get in touch with Cydney? I don't know who she is! lol

[Mermaid Lorelei]

Mermaid Cydney - https://www.facebook.com/MermaidCydney?ref=ts&fref=ts

[Ariel-Starfish]

Right? What tailmaker doesn't want a picture in a pile of amazing tails???
I think we all are extremely familiar with the "who did it first" game, and I find it hard to care anymore, honestly. There are some tailmakers who will copy anything another tailmaker does, and in a lot of cases with that, every time it's a lower quality than the first. But for me when that happens I just laugh because it's so obvious, and looks worse than the original. This is not just talking those specific makers, but between a lot of different tail makers.


Well said :) Achtually I should do it more: just laugh about it ;)

[Odette]

trying to put together a super awesome event this year and I'm told by one of the people in programming that we may not have the equipment available for that day. :headwall:
at least its not as bad as Mesa was. but its so important that they will be able to see me and hear me.I can't easily rent that stuff (or maybe i can?). i could borrow from another entertainment group but they are having a show the same month. I also want to make sure i can make this one prop that will make this the best time for the audience,but it gets expensive and i don't get paid for this event.Its all for the fans. If not for the fans of Mermaid Odette™, then for the fans of mermaids and mermaiding.

never "vented" before. not sure if i should. trying new things!
the gigs are slowing down. hope February becomes my vacation month. sort of.

[AniaR]

check out musical instrument stores, they often rent PA systems for dirt cheap. I rent wireless mics sometimes that way :)

[Odette]

check out musical instrument stores, they often rent PA systems for dirt cheap. I rent wireless mics sometimes that way :)
why thank you, Raina!:hug: I have checked those stores, but i wanted to rent more than a speaker and mic.when i put all the things together, it was too much.I guess for now, ill have to just do those two. back on track!

[Blondie]

RAAAAAAAAAGE. Okay, I'm going to type this as best as I can with two wrist braces on...

I for one, am tired of threads being locked because of drama.

I hate it when people try to create a drama free environment It's just like creating a politically free environment It. Does. Not. Work. Why? Because people have opinions. People like to express where they come from with their opinions. And my really beef is with the current Fish Butt refund thread that was recently locked. I get that singling people out is wrong. I do. But to lock a thread up over a heated argument over an opinion is not cool to me. Maybe it's because I'm American and I TRULY value freedom of speech. But think it is wrong to lock threads that become heated. Let people talk things out. Let them argue. Because that is how things become SOLVED. Sending people to their separate corners over something does nothing but build a bigger barrier between them. That's how sides are formed and thus more drama over the same shit.

tl;dr: Prevent locking threads, unless the victims are CLEARLY being harassed. Do not lock threads because someone has a counter opinion.

/End Rage.

[MermaidBrittany]

RAAAAAAAAAGE. Okay, I'm going to type this as best as I can with two wrist braces on...

I for one, am tired of threads being locked because of drama.

I hate it when people try to create a drama free environment It's just like creating a politically free environment It. Does. Not. Work. Why? Because people have opinions. People like to express where they come from with their opinions. And my really beef is with the current Fish Butt refund thread that was recently locked. I get that singling people out is wrong. I do. But to lock a thread up over a heated argument over an opinion is not cool to me. Maybe it's because I'm American and I TRULY value freedom of speech. But think it is wrong to lock threads that become heated. Let people talk things out. Let them argue. Because that is how things become SOLVED. Sending people to their separate corners over something does nothing but build a bigger barrier between them. That's how sides are formed and thus more drama over the same shit.

tl;dr: Prevent locking threads, unless the victims are CLEARLY being harassed. Do not lock threads because someone has a counter opinion.

/End Rage.

THANK YOU!!! People have the "ohhh everyone lets be friends! No fighting Yayy! Rainbows and butterflies!" And then at one point everything finally comes back around and blows up in everyone's face. People need to discuss things or else they never will reach a conclusion!! Drives me nuts! Especially on this site.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Holy, they locked it up?? Did it get THAT heated?

[Blondie]

The real world isn't all happiness and rainbows. But yes, I think people need to sort these problems up instead of locking them up.

In my personal opinion, no. But that's just me.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Well there's bitching at people and then there's civilly talking about the problem. But that's my opinion

[MermaidBrittany]

Exactly, no good comes from ignoring issues.

[Winged Mermaid]

This is the last I'll be on for tonight, but actually the reason I locked it up was because several people were basically saying I NEEDED to remove drama from the threads and were raising heck about it here and on FB. I said that past experience tells me to let everyone work it out and when everyone cools down I then move certian posts to the drama thread or just label the whole thread as drama. But they were not happy with that and said if I wanted to be fair I would move it. I have stuff to do, so I locked it until later. But apparently that was the wrong choice? Argh, I can not win. I think I'll go with my original instinct and unlock them. Let the wave ride itself out and deal with later.

[Blondie]

I'm not mad Iona! I'm just saying saying my opinion. Of course you can't make everyone happy xD It's life.

I just think that people should be able to go on about their subjects and debate. If it gets to a harassment or threatening point then by all means lock them. But just people having a heated conversation isn't "lock worthy" material. I think once people get it all out of their system, they'll come to better terms with being peaceful.

[Spindrift]

^^ If this is the argument the forum is going to go with, then should it also not be allowed for people to make "let's not fight posts"/light-hearted interjections/trying to change the subject -in the middle- of arguments specifically in the drama-designated threads? Doing so sounds counter-intuitive to the above post.

(not something I'm actually endorsing, just something to think about)
(also this isn't directed at anyone, just something I've noticed over time)

[Kanti]

Actually, you guys should be allowed to continue the discussion on here.
You're not being censored or told to shut up, you're just being asked to take dramatic things/arguments to this thread so you're
not disrupting the people in the regular forum who actually WANT to discuss the business at hand.
No one should have to shut up if they think they have a score to settle or some points to make. Why is everyone saying you can't
argue? That's exactly what this forum is for.

I actually WANT the posts to be moved here because I honestly think Raina's post was dramatic and that if she really wants to talk
about how someone is making false things on Stevi's page THATS FINE. DO IT IN HERE.
My drama/complaining only starts when I'm trying to talk about something and some unrelated BS starts up in a topic where NO ONE
WANTS TO TALK ABOUT DRAMA.

I also think it's unfair of you to summarize it that way Iona. That is a gross oversimplification.
We were not "raising heck" on facebook, we were TALKING ON OUR OWN PAGES and saying how we were TIRED of drama in our threads.
How in the WORLD is that "raising heck"? We wanted them MOVED TO THE DRAMA THREAD! That's it.
Not to mention I messaged you TWICE about the dramatic post requesting VERY politely that it either be removed or the poster be warned
so that drama could either redirect into the drama thread OR that it can be stopped right there.
Not only did you ignore me, but then you act like I DEMANDED something? I even asked you to please explain to me if I was the one being
overdramatic for wanting it removed and you ignored that one too.
Sorry if it hurts people's feelings, but I don't like drama. BUT I will say this, I don't want to censor it. I just want it moved here where it can
be continued and everyone can find it EXACTLY WHERE IT BELONGS.


What makes more sense?
To simply move posts that are unrelated and tell people if they want to respond simply move to the drama thread?
Or let them fester in the regular form, have drama take it over, and then people who wanted to talk about WHAT THE TOPIC WAS can't
even do that?

[MermaidBrittany]

If people can't deal with drama/conflict/arguments, the internet really isn't the place they should be. At ALL. Its just going to happen.

[Kanti]

Honestly, am I crazy or something?
Does anyone think that? This is the drama thread, you can call me crazy if you want, no one will
get mad. Not even me. But I will expect at LEAST an explanation.

I don't know why people are so scared of this forum. You can discuss things in here if you want, it's a
FORUM. Look I'm posting! It's working! Just like a normal forum.

We could be having the discussion that hi-jacked the "Stevi" forums IN HERE!
*Gasp* it's true!

WHAT IS POSSIBLY WRONG WITH THAT IDEA? PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME!

[Kanti]

If people can't deal with drama/conflict/arguments, the internet really isn't the place they should be. At ALL. Its just going to happen.

We CAN deal with it, some people would LIKE TO but NOT in a forum where there are people dealing
with other topics and something dramatic and unrelated happens and trails off the conversation.
Is ANYONE in the Fishbutts forum still talking about Fishbutts? No they're all in a damn enigma from
watching people fight and now THEY aren't even talking anymore.

[lasserine]

There has to be, at least somewhere to get it out.

Arguments on the internet happen all the time.

[Blondie]

I agree with Brittney and Lasserine. Arguments will ALWAYS happen on the internet. Trying to dodge it is like trying to not get wet in a rainstorm.

It happens. EVERYTHING is drama. There is no way to get rid of it. It is a basic of life. People will always have conflicting opinions. If you want to label things "Drama Worthy" I just think that's a waste of time... If you read drama and you don't like it. Stop. Close the page. Move on. No one is making anyone read it. You have the power to ignore it. And that's simpler.

[Kanti]

Can someone please, like, tell me whether or not they like the idea of using this thread or not?
We get the point, drama is going to happen. Some people like it some don't.

So what is the solution.

[MermaidBrittany]

Ignore it.

[Kanti]

So you're moderately okay with threads having drama in them?
You don't mind when a thread breaks out into a fight in the middle of the topic?

Not saying those in any condescending or mean matter, just asking.

[MermaidBrittany]

No, thats ok to ask. I think its important to remember that we (as a community) only know each other over the internet and therfore only have what we read to go off of. And if one of their opinions don't match up with ours, then they autoatically dislike them.
About the conflicts, I kind of have just accepted the fact thats its going to be there. If I really wanna stay on topic then I will just post it. I think that people are ridiculous and spout whatever they want without really thinking it through. They should seriously consider using their time differently, it not worth all of the effort and its frankly really annoying that people find that they can hide behind their computer screens
but I seriously doubt anything is really going to change.
But bottom line, is its going to be there so really I just ignore it. I wouldn't say im ok with it though.

[Kanti]

Alright that makes sense.

But wouldn't it be nicer if when a fight/argument/disagreement broke out the posts were moved to this
thread and an admin provided a link so that if you cared/wanted to respond to the argument you could
move to this thread and if you wanted to continue on-topic you could stay in the other thread?

Wouldn't that make everything easier? Then you wouldn't even have to ignore it. It would be moved
so you wouldn't have to deal with it and the people who want to continue the argument could do so.

[MermaidBrittany]

I guess sort of :/ But i still think people should work it out. I know you said that its irritating when the thread is no longer on topic, however when people say the word drama its almost a taboo. I feel if we give it that sort of attention it will escalate into larger proportions, there is a lot of grey area, and not one right answer. I feel if everyone could solve arguments in private messages that would be best, the publicity fires people up even more.

I suppose I still don't have positive or negative position on this "drama thread" however I am opposed to locking them.

[Kanti]

I guess sort of :/ But i still think people should work it out. I know you said that its irritating when the thread is no longer on topic, however when people say the word drama its almost a taboo. I feel if we give it that sort of attention it will escalate into larger proportions, there is a lot of grey area, and not one right answer. I feel if everyone could solve arguments in private messages that would be best, the publicity fires people up even more.

I suppose I still don't have positive or negative position on this "drama thread" however I am opposed to locking them.

That's exactly why I said what I said above.
I asked Iona to move things in here, this thread is not locked, therefor people can come here to talk about dramatic things or
simply to argue/get something off their chest.
Rather than doing that, the thread was locked so that people can not only not continue what they wanted to say (well I just found out
it's not locked anymore), but now everyone in that original thread who still wants/cares to talk about fishbutts is now detered from
talking about it since it's already turned into an argument.

I'm still waiting on the stuff from there to be moved to here. I would continue talking about it if it was, I feel bad that there are
people in that forum who still want to talk about Fishbutts and their orders and now they have to sort through the other crap.


Also the reason "drama" is taboo and people don't want to talk about it is because they don't want to come to terms with the fact that
it is indeed drama. It's sort of embarassing to have your posts moved here, but also whenever they finally do get moved over, the
conversation is usually over because there are people in the old thread who are fed up with the drama and make comments like
"okay can we stop fighting?" etc.

[Kanti]

Also, we never requested the threads be locked. Iona did that on her own.
We asked that they be moved so people can continue the conversation in this thread.

So I'm not sure why she's even blaming the "locking" on us. Well, me, I'm the only one
who wanted to take action. So me. I dunno why she's blaming that on me.

[Spindrift]

Here's the TLDR:

If threads on the forum turn into fights that are not on topic, the irrelevant posts can be moved here and the irrelevant discussion/fight will be continued in the drama thread so that the original threads can stay helpful and on-topic for everyone; yes or no? In the drama/fight designated threads "fighting" is allowed as long as it does not escalate into harassment or anything similar. Posts that ask for everyone to get along in this set-aside thread will be ignored as that is the purpose of the thread.

Now, question: For a post that instigates "drama" but also has relevant info to the original topic - can that be split up?

[Spindrift]

Also since the majority of the users seem to oppose drama, is there a master setting that can unsubscribe people to the drama threads as the default? Then those who want to be involved or keep updated can do that (post/re-subscribe) without bothering the rest of the MN community.

[Kanti]

Thanks, Spin. I guess I type too much and people just skip over my posts or don't understand them.

Also I'm not sure. Probably not, but then for posting something dramatic, they should have to deal with
the fact that the entire comment will be moved to the drama thread.
They can have the option to copy/paste the relevant parts back into the thread but the drama is what has
to be moved, because if we let it slide, people would just keep posting relevant things to stay in the thread.

Again, no one likes being moved into the drama thread because no one likes to admit that their posts are
being dramatic or off-topic.

[Kanti]

Yea, I don't see why not.
Or they can just avoid it. Not that hard either I guess? It'll all be in one spot so all they have to do
is avoid one thread.

[lasserine]

I would post a picture, about fighting over the internet, but it will offend people.

[Spindrift]

The other issue that was brought up was the problem with /when/ a drama-worthy post should be moved. Admins aren't on the site 24/7 so it's unreasonable to hold them to that. Also there is the line of how drama-inducing a post has to be before it is moved -as jumping the gun (locking the thread prematurely in the recent example) is probably not the most ideal way to approach things either, and it is entirely possible that a thread can turn into drama despite still staying relevant and on-topic.

[Spindrift]

@Kanti: I think users who use the "New Activity" and "New Posts" function on the forum find themselves caught up in the drama before even realizing that it is drama - which is why I wondered if they can be unsubscribed to it by default. It would be for people who didn't want to be part of drama/are very bothered by it but read a instigating post before realizing what it was, that kind of thing.

[Kanti]

I actually offered Iona via facebook to be an admin. I understand they're not always on and such, but
as I mentioned, when I usually see dramatic posts I try to report them and request they be moved.
I never ask for thread-locking, that seems inappropriate on any level.
I feel like I am unbiased enough and good enough at telling whether or not a dramatic post is forming.
And I wouldn't discourage it, either, I'd just ask that people who wish to talk about it go to this forum
and people who want to stay here go to this forum.

Maybe we could not even move the post, we could just be like:




OMG that guy is SO ANNOYING I seriously hate everything he says!
If you'd like to respond to this topic, please follow it in this forum
[link to drama forum]



But anyway, yea I like that sort of jewelery! We should totally blablablabla (helpful advice)
if you'd like to respond to this topic, remain in the thread


Then we could even just remove the entire post and the admin's response could be what shows from the
original post. That way it can be easily broken up and seen by everyone.

[Kanti]

I would post a picture, about fighting over the internet, but it will offend people.

You should post it anyway
This is the thread for drama and stuff, as long as it's not something bullying or whatever I don't see the harm
I can take a joke

[lasserine]

You should post it anyway
This is the thread for drama and stuff, as long as it's not something bullying or whatever I don't see the harm
I can take a joke

It is best, if I dont. "Some" might.

[-Annwyn-]

Iona, I find it rich that you're considering that we are starting a riot simply because you barged in onto my facebook and saw us having a conversation about this. I suspect you had the intention of shit-stirring otherwise you would not have been looking so hard off-forum for anything you can use against me/us for your own benefit. Why else would you be there? And don't for one minute think that because your presence was noted on my Facebook thread, that we are going to censor ourselves out of fear you might do/say something we might find threatening. That's called intimidation and I'm not going to stand for it.


You have the right as moderator to shift whatever posts you want into whatever thread. But don't lock the users out because it just doesn't suit you.




Raina, what the actual frag!? I didn't make any fake accounts to start dramas. At all. Period. If I wanted to say something abrasive I would just say it, I do not need to hide behind sockpuppets like 'MerVee', or 'Mike Antonio'. There you go again accusing people of things they didn't do. You even accused me of privately harrassing Kae Leah, so what on earth would make you think that I would trust you? Also, Lexi and her mother work together in the same building, yet you insisted to everyone that Lexi was making fake profiles, even when both parties came forth and told you the truth. Regardless, I am not going to divert my attention from you showing double standards.

[Kanti]

It is best, if I dont. "Some" might.
If you insist I'll trust you on that xD

[Kanti]

Iona, I find it rich that you're considering that we are starting a riot simply because you barged in onto my facebook and saw us having a conversation about this. I suspect you had the intention of shit-stirring otherwise you would not have been looking so hard off-forum for anything you can use against me/use for your own benefit. Why else would you be there? And don't for one minute think that because your presence was noted on my Facebook thread, that we are going to censor ourselves out of fear you might do/say something we might find threatening. That's called intimidation and I'm not going to stand for it.

I honestly don't even care if she quotes what we wrote on there. It was all pretty tame and related to the topic at hand.
We weren't going on publicly and telling people how terrible anything was, we were on a post with a very limited number
of people and we were just talking and voicing disapproval.
Not to mention half the people who participated were banned from/don't use MN threads.

[Winged Mermaid]

Iona, I find it rich that you're considering that we are starting a riot simply because you barged in onto my facebook and saw us having a conversation about this. I suspect you had the intention of shit-stirring otherwise you would not have been looking so hard off-forum for anything you can use against me/us for your own benefit. Why else would you be there? And don't for one minute think that because your presence was noted on my Facebook thread, that we are going to censor ourselves out of fear you might do/say something we might find threatening. That's called intimidation and I'm not going to stand for it.


You have the right as moderator to shift whatever posts you want into whatever thread. But don't lock the users out because it just doesn't suit you.




Raina, what the actual frag!? I didn't make any fake accounts to start dramas. At all. Period. If I wanted to say something abrasive I would just say it, I do not need to hide behind sockpuppets like 'MerVee', or 'Mike Antonio'. There you go again accusing people of things they didn't do. You even accused me of privately harrassing Kae Leah, so what on earth would make you think that I would trust you? Also, Lexi and her mother work together in the same building, yet you insisted to everyone that Lexi was making fake profiles, even when both parties came forth and told you the truth. Regardless, I am not going to divert my attention from you showing double standards.

I admit my wording was a bit unfair and I apologize for that, I was just VERY frustrated. I did try to explain the method to my madness. I let the wave of drama come and go in and clean up any threads that need it once it's over. It has worked better than all others that I have tried. If the wave of drama is still peaking, if I move the posts it will just add to the flame and not only that but people will get confused with missing posts that have ben moved and there will be drama from misunderstandings. I've seen it happen before. I'm fine with input and constructive criticism. Hey, we have a whole subforum for feedback! But keep in mind I have had years of experience with this- yes I'm still working on it, ever growing and learning- but I do have some idea what I'm doing. I'm sorry you disagree with my methods, but please let me do my job the best way I know how. I appropriate feedback and constructive criticism, but as I said I have done what you are asking before and it actually made it worse. Yes, I agree, if people want to "go there" this thread is the place. But again as I posted in the thread different kinds of drama are difficult to identify. Relevant drama vs needless drama and out of place drama. I do what I can with what I've got and the knowledge that experience has given me.

I typed this a few hours ago and wanted to walk away before posting, but it appears things have gone on since then. Alea I have no idea where you got intimidation from? You guys were asking questions and saying some you were unhappy with my actions so I stepped in to answer your questions and explain my actions. I was notified of the post by another user via PM because they were very distressed at what was being said. I also I saw it on Anna/Lexi/Morticia's wall as she was tagged in it. And how would I use it for my own benefit? You're very much looking for ill intention where there is none.

[Kanti]

That's fine, but as demonstrated earlier, I don't think it works very well.
The thread was sort of just dominated by the arguments and now it's dead. Not blaming you or saying
you're at fault, we just need a new method. And honestly, a more unbiased approach. You need to be
a lot more strict with the drama stuff. If something hints at drama (as a lot of it seems to be passive
aggressive rather than full-on) you need to either warn that if they continue down that path their post
will be moved, or simply move it without warning.
It's not like you delete the post, you just move it in here and they can continue in here.
That way, we get to filter drama, people get to continue their original posts, and the people who don't
want to participate in drama aren't forced to sift through the argument posts just to find relevant ones.

[Kanti]

@Kanti: I think users who use the "New Activity" and "New Posts" function on the forum find themselves caught up in the drama before even realizing that it is drama - which is why I wondered if they can be unsubscribed to it by default. It would be for people who didn't want to be part of drama/are very bothered by it but read a instigating post before realizing what it was, that kind of thing.

Oops I skipped this one.
And yea, that is very true.
The posts might get a bit hefty and people may end up seeing them on the main page
a lot more often than they'd like.
Maybe there is a way to unsubscribe. I'm not sure. Usually there is, I guess I'll investigate.

[Winged Mermaid]

Oops I skipped this one.
And yea, that is very true.
The posts might get a bit hefty and people may end up seeing them on the main page
a lot more often than they'd like.
Maybe there is a way to unsubscribe. I'm not sure. Usually there is, I guess I'll investigate.

I'm also looking for a way to do this.

[ShyMer]

I thought you could set threads so that they don't show up for you, not that I've tried it myself.

[Mer_Adella]

This is what I think:

1) this is the internet...we know each other through this...very rarely or not often enough, we don't get to meet in person. So we have to do our best to read what is being said. Just like texting, words don't get the right "tone" for what is being said. Someone could say "Hey B*!ch"....now friends I haven't seen in a while will say this to me on the phone, and its somewhat of an endearment (although not a nice one,but w/e). But seeing this in a text would have 2 meanings if someone didn't know how the "tone" was meant. We need to remember this while typing posts. Yes, people get passionate about what they type. Yes, you can put "ex-claimers" in your text to let everyone know what you mean as far as your "tone". Will everyone do this? Probably not because we don't think about it when replying to something and are in a passionate mood.
2) There are few admins on this forum. Are they here to supervise us all the time? No! They have their own lives to live as well as all of us. Could drama go undetected for a little bit? Yes of course! Once they get on and see what is happening, should they take whatever action was needed? Yes, but the reason they are admins is so THEY can make the judgement call.
3) Drama is everywhere! The first time we all see it is in middle school. Then it moves onto high school. Most hope to not see it in college. About the time that people get into their mid-late twenties they usually don't see drama anymore. (note: I said "usually"...there are always going to be exceptions) I for one can look at drama (in person or on the internet) and make the choice of whether or not to be a part of it. That's just me. Do we all do that? No.

As far as drama in threads...here's my opinion:

When I see something, for instance; badmouthing mertailor, or snarking against fish-butts, or even just picking on someone; I just skip over it. I might be reading a thread about something I thought was of interest to me and all of a sudden there is drama (related to the topic, but drama none-the-less) I just kinda read through it, but mostly just skipping until its all over and getting back onto the real subject of what I wanted to read about. That's it! IF something really bothers me about what is being said (against a friend of mine or something I believe in) I try to read it several different ways (remembering that this is the internet and things don't have a "tone" to them). If it still sounds "wrong" to me, I click out of the thread.

Now this isn't the right way for everyone but this is just what I do. Yes people need to talk things out. Should people get into a cat-fish fight over things? No. Should we remember that WE are not the owners of these businesses and have no input thus far? Yes. Can we have opinions? OF course! But, it does make me wonder for the fact that some people are just naggin on the fact that fish-butts, mertailor, merbellas, shadowfancy, or any other tailmaker does something different that people don't like. I understand, I do, that sometimes it makes people upset about something they did, said, are doing, or anything else. But complaining and ranting about it doesn't help the situation. If one of those tailmakers comes along and says "my bad, I am sorry, here's what I am going to do for you my customers..." we need to just sit back and go "ok..they admitted that they made a mistake and "this" is what they are doing to correct it.." and then applaud them for admitting their bad and correcting it.

that's it...choose to read what you will of this...but i have made my opinion know. And honestly, it doesn't matter to me who decides to pick apart my opinion. You can't silence me, and you can't pin me down for my opinion. I have had too many abusive relationships and know that I can just walk away and ignore.

[Kanti]

@Adella - that would be fine and all, if everyone was treated equally, but we've had members BANNED
who didn't even instigate problems NEARLY as much or nearly as often as some other members we have.
We've had posts that were decidedly drama and others that were let go without any mention.
There is a bias, it was just demonstrated, and that's not good.
If EVERYONE'S drama was excused equally, whatever, but it's not. As I said, some people are allowed to
make threads about how the mertailor is supposedly a terrible person and if that ever happened to Stevi
I can almost bet it'd be removed immediately and bans would be threatened for slander.
Hell, if you were here last time Aela posted, almost EVERYONE in that thread called her a bitch and told
her to f*ck off and NO ONE was warned or flagged for being inappropriate. But can you imagine if the
mertailor came in here and called someone a bitch? INSTA-BAN.
Last time Chris was here, he made a response to defend himself because he was being attacked and
named on this thread and his message was automatically filtered as "drama" whereas we have entire
threads dedicated to freaking SCREENSHOTS of "mertailor said this, mertailor said that".
The ONLY people who have ever been banned from this thread are the Mertailor, Matthew and Chris and
the only one of them I saw post was Chris and he was MORE than respectful.
Apparently the Mertailor and Matthew were banned for reasons that weren't gone into, but apparently for
being harrassing and dramatic? Well if that's the case, Raina and KaeLeah are way overdue for a ban because
they have QUITE the knack for bringing up gossip and trying to start stuff.
As someone said "Instigators should be punished more than those who fall for the ploy, you don't punish
a child for being bullied." We have plenty of instigators and I have never once seen them being asked to
cut it out.

So again, if this was fair and balanced, this wouldn't be a problem. But it's not.
One side of the fence gets the blind eye from the admins quite a bit while the other is harshly reprimanded
and even BANNED for speaking their mind.

[Mer_Adella]

ok. I understand where you are coming from Kanti..I do and I love that you said it respectfully.

Here's my problem.

I have seen a lot of people complain that Mertailor had very little or poor customer service as far as replying to emails and such. And some rushed to the rescue of him. And now Fish-butts is having that problem but eventually giving updates on things such as refunds for unhappy customers and at least trying to make good. I just don't like seeing people giving a harmful two cents about things like mertailor or fish-butts or any other tailmaker for the fact that we are seeing it from our perspective (the customer side) we have NO IDEA what is going on through the business eyes. does that make sense?
You are going to have loyal customers to one side or another. You are going to get the people that are in the middle that don't know who to go with as far as a tailmaker and make a choice and might possibly regret it. but that is at the customers disgression. I understand that the tailmaker has a certain responsibility to follow. As does any other business. But lets please understand that they are the only ones that know what is going on through through the business and lets be respectful towards them although we might be upset and angry

[Kanti]

I completely agree.
I didn't think Stevi was being that bad for delaying the tails. I understand she's the only person working
at Fishbutts so I wanted to give her a chance. Sometimes you just get a lot of work.
The mertailor may have also had the same problem, which is why I get sort of annoyed. People would
always comment on mertailor threads that said "Oh no my tail isn't here after 5 months!" with things
like "Well yea, it's the mertailor what did you expect! Typical Eric" it's a double standard.

So in that sense I completely agree with you. I just think it's dumb how people are backing Stevi when
they'd talk crap about the Mertailor for literally the exact same situation.

[Mer_Adella]

I completely agree.
I didn't think Stevi was being that bad for delaying the tails. I understand she's the only person working
at Fishbutts so I wanted to give her a chance. Sometimes you just get a lot of work.
The mertailor may have also had the same problem, which is why I get sort of annoyed. People would
always comment on mertailor threads that said "Oh no my tail isn't here after 5 months!" with things
like "Well yea, it's the mertailor what did you expect! Typical Eric" it's a double standard.

So in that sense I completely agree with you. I just think it's dumb how people are backing Stevi when
they'd talk crap about the Mertailor for literally the exact same situation.


again that has to do with loyalty. Maybe someone got burned by Mertailor and instead of seeing all the good that he has changed into, they just focus on the bad. Just like someone who is all for mertailor picks on stevi too.

[Firemaid]

Why is fighting on the internet like the special olympics?

[Usagi]

So many women..so much estrogen..Haha

[SeaGlass Siren]

So many women..so much estrogen..Haha
So much bulldozing.

[Kanti]

So much bulldozing.

NO!
This is the drama thread so drama is allowed!
No bulldozing!!

[Elle]

NO!
This is the drama thread so drama is allowed!
No bulldozing!!


lol

[Winged Mermaid]

@Adella - that would be fine and all, if everyone was treated equally, but we've had members BANNED
who didn't even instigate problems NEARLY as much or nearly as often as some other members we have.
We've had posts that were decidedly drama and others that were let go without any mention.
There is a bias, it was just demonstrated, and that's not good.
If EVERYONE'S drama was excused equally, whatever, but it's not. As I said, some people are allowed to
make threads about how the mertailor is supposedly a terrible person and if that ever happened to Stevi
I can almost bet it'd be removed immediately and bans would be threatened for slander.
Hell, if you were here last time Aela posted, almost EVERYONE in that thread called her a bitch and told
her to f*ck off and NO ONE was warned or flagged for being inappropriate. But can you imagine if the
mertailor came in here and called someone a bitch? INSTA-BAN.
Last time Chris was here, he made a response to defend himself because he was being attacked and
named on this thread and his message was automatically filtered as "drama" whereas we have entire
threads dedicated to freaking SCREENSHOTS of "mertailor said this, mertailor said that".
The ONLY people who have ever been banned from this thread are the Mertailor, Matthew and Chris and
the only one of them I saw post was Chris and he was MORE than respectful.
Apparently the Mertailor and Matthew were banned for reasons that weren't gone into, but apparently for
being harrassing and dramatic? Well if that's the case, Raina and KaeLeah are way overdue for a ban because
theyhave QUITE the knack for bringing up gossip and trying to start stuff.
As someone said "Instigators should be punished more than those who fall for the ploy, you don't punish
a child for being bullied." We have plenty of instigators and I have never once seen them being asked to
cut it out.

So again, if this was fair and balanced, this wouldn't be a problem. But it's not.
One side of the fence gets the blind eye from the admins quite a bit while the other is harshly reprimanded
and even BANNED for speaking their mind.


I have explained multiple times why Eric and Matty and Chris were banned. I have also explained I have tried to work with ALL of them with various comprises to return or preserver their membership. Every time they threw it in my face or rejected the compromise. Chris and Matty broke the rules several times, in the end flat out disrespect in the way of nasty name calling and such. They were WAY over 3 strikes. I stuck my neck out for them and it got to the point I was being unfair to everyone else who was following the rules by turning trying to over look it and work with them, even if it meant more work and stress for myself when I didn't have to. Just becuase I was trying to preserve the other side of the argument for fairness. I said this exact thing when I banned them if you go through the forums and look. I've also explained that I HAVE suspended Raina on several occasions becuase I told her to dial it down and she didn't. Though there was one time when I was about to suspend her and she took a self imposed break. She never broke any rules, but I felt she needed to cool off and couldn't on her own at the time. Just because I don't call everyone out publicly doesn't mean I'm not doing my job. There have been reprimands and punishments privately to many users for many different offenses. In the end it's not your or anyone elses business and I don't have to let you know about it just because you are convinced I'm bias. There is a lot that goes on off the public forum that comes into play that you don't know about, and I do not need to broadcast it. Also do not pretend to know what I would do if anyone came in here and did anything. You are not me, you do not know. I do not have to explain myself to you- words are cheap, my actions speak volumes about my fairness and capability with such tricky and complicated situations. I take into consideration feed back (again, whole subforum on feedback on the forum) and suggestions, but in the end I will do my job as I see fit. Malinghi and I pay for this site and we put out our blood sweat and tears into this for free for the community. At the end of the day this is not a democracy, and we use our judgement to decide what's best. If you don't like that, you can leave at any time.

[Kanti]

No offense, but it's hard for me to believe you after you blew what me and Aela were talking about
completely out of proportion. Also ignoring me after I did absolutely nothing wrong besides ask you to
remove drama is pretty uncalled for as well.
Any possible rule that Chris could have broken to get him banned, I've seen Raina break it tenfold.

I also have a feeling that I'm pushing my freedom of speech and that I'll be banned as well if I continue
down the path that I am going. As I see you've told me "if you don't like it, you can leave" twice now.
Maybe I'm just paranoid, but that seems like a very aggressive thing to say.
I'd think you'd have some consideration towards me and my feelings. I am a very active member who
has never said anything rude to anyone.

I haven't been on here long, but I've been active enough to see that people get banned for breaking rules
that I supposedly never got to see and that Raina gets to bait posts and purposely get rises out of people
and no one does so much as batt an eyelid. I'm not a child, I know there's bias. I've seen it. And just the
other day I experienced it first hand.

[Winged Mermaid]

Really? You've seen Raina cuss people out and call them nasty names? Please show me.

I did apologize for how I worded my sentence. As I said I was very frustrated. I was trying to please everyone and I felt from the posts on FB I was being attacked when I was trying very hard to be fair to everyone. I feel like you are being pushy in telling me how to do my job when I stress myself (and my health) and dedicate hours of my time almost every day to this place for the benefit of others. I am trying to explain and work with you but you seem to not be pleased no matter how I explain, no matter how much I tell you. I feel you are being very aggressive toward me and I don't appreciate it. I mean that you can leave because you telling me how to do my job will not change it and you seem to think that it will. That aside, even though I've had multiple people who run professional forums (as in get paid to run it) that they would ban you and several others, I stand by my morals of fairness and free speech. This is not a "I don't like what you have to say or your tone so you're banned" kind of forum, which is the majority of those on the net it seems. Even though your posts scream that we are anything but fair. Like I said before In the end it's not your or anyone elses business what happens in private and how I deal with those issues, and I don't have to let you know about it just because you are convinced I'm bias. I don't know why you're trying to make me out to be the bad guy, but I don't appreciate it.

I don't think anything productive is coming out of this. I'm going to step out of this conversation now.

[Kanti]

-Ignoring me is not wortking with me, it's telling me you DON'T want to work with me
-I said I could offer to be an admin to help you out to relieve stress
-Baiting posts is worse than name calling. It is manipulative and passive-aggressive psychological bullying
-I'm not aggressive at all, I was the one being aggressed, I was nothing but polite, now I'm just being honest and blunt
which may seem rude, but you have to remember it's on the computer and you can't hear my tone of voice
-I'm not giving an unfair judgment or claiming anyone is anymore biased than what I have seen
-No one ever said you were a badguy. I'm not being emotional at all and I still think you're nice, I just think
you're trying to defend your friends is all and you have to realize that causes favoritism and bias.

Progress doesn't come from 3 minutes of conversation. You have to be willing to work a bit longer for it to come around.

[lasserine]

Im sorry, but Raina does bait people.

[Blondie]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/2e149d09a388e6e132d3caf8aa2bfe1a/tumblr_misprpsZJz1rmam31o1_r1_250.gif

Some of the things that have been said, I totally agree to.

I highly agree that some people have been banned for things others have done multiple times. BUT, that being said, I wish that NONE of them were banned. I don't think we should "tighten up" and crack down on people for drama. I think we should encourage the debates and be less ban/suspension happy unless, again, someone is clearly being threatened and harassed AND it's been addressed by them to the admin.

[Mermaid Melusinah]

I have to agree with Kanti on this one... I sit back and watch the forums pretty much throughout the day. RARELY do I post so as to avoid drama. I mean its true. The only time I got dragged into drama was when Lexi (Morticia now) was being WRONGLY accused and attacked for the multiple accounts... I know this was the case because its simply NOT who she is. trust me, she doesnt care THAT much. i can say this because I know her literally better then anyone. we have been friends like 5+ years and talk daily. but thats irrelevant.

What I am getting at is that there are probably a lot of people that want to post and be more in the community but are nervous or afraid to. Controversy, debate and drama is a part of life. It will happen. It's the ability to discuss and handle it maturely that matters.

And the only other thing that I have to say that upsets me is the vibe of elite-ism that can some times float around. Some are more guilty then others, and im not here to call out and point names. NOT what im after. but it has to stop.... we are a community. YES there are those here that know more then others, thats just the way of things. HOWEVER, that doesnt make what they say/do law. I have FULL RIGHT to raise a countering statement if i see fit. And Any one should feel like they are able to offer an alternative view or opinion without fear of intense crucification. We are all mers of different nature, but we should be able to help each other balance and discuss things when they come up in the best possible way. *shrugs* just getting tired of sitting here and watching it happen almost daily... What is the point to learn and grow, if everyone tries to act like they know everything but refuse to teach nothing unless that person holds the same views and opinions they do? Thats not what being a mermaid and ROLE MODEL is about....

Just my feelings on the matter at hand....

[Spindrift]

@Kanti:

It's possible that not answering a message does not mean someone is ignoring you on purpose though. I'm not speaking for this particular event because I don't know what happened, but maybe this can occur when the person just doesn't know how to word a decent reply, or is getting ready to make a public announcement that does respond to it, or is putting it off for some reason (cooling off, not sure how to approach it, got busy etc.) I do that a lot. :\

And I'm pretty sure a lot of people have offered themselves as admins. I am completely positive that at some point they have discussed the possibility of promoting members to admins and have since for some reason or another, decided against it for now. To my knowledge, I am the only MerNetwork member that was ever promoted to become an admin, and that was back on Mer.Yuku. If I remember correctly (it was 2 years ago), it was so that I could check out the code of the site.

[Spindrift]

@Melu: Lexi has a very good heart and is very well-meaning. When I PM'd her she seemed very intelligent. I think that a lot of why there were misunderstandings with her on the forum is because to members of the community, all her posts seemed to follow the same vein of topic and message, if you get what I mean. Someone's thought process/personality/being can be completely different than what is perceived, but if all people on the internet see is a window of that person (via online posts - which can only offer a glimpse of what a person is like) the wrong message can get across very easily.

[SeaGlass Siren]

NO!
This is the drama thread so drama is allowed!
No bulldozing!!
Oh I meant just from other threads I don't mean bulldozing the drama threads. Sorry bout that!

[Kanti]

@Andrea - ohh haha I misunderstood then xD

@Spin - yea it's possible, but I don't think it was the case in this particular scenario, especially since
I was not said that I was going to be replied to, I was just told that I was not agreed with. I also sent a
second message asking to let me know whether or not I was being reasonable in order to take the pressure
off for a response.
I just find it rude when I send someone a message requesting an admin action and then I see that the person
was posting normally on threads. So it sort of feels like 'okay I guess you had time to talk to those people
and not me'.
And that's fine I understand, I'm just saying I'm a person who's willing to do the job. If the admins are running
low and need help I'm willing and able to do so. I was just being curteous and offering a solution, I didn't expect
that I should become one just after responding, I'm just saying, if you're suggesting you need more admins, I'm
able.

[Thalassa]

Just saying, TBH when I'm in charge of something if someone comes in and says, "I don't like the way you're doing things, we don't see eye to eye and by the way put me in charge too because I want to help you..." I'd say, "Er, thanks, but no." Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, and they probably actually want to help but they and I obviously don't agree on the way things should go. So why the heck would I trust them with a more admin-like position? That's like having an argument with your boss about how he should be running the company and then suggesting that he promote you to a managerial position.

Sorry, but it always bugs me when people come in on those who have more experience and try to tell them (not suggest, but TELL them) how it should be done. It bugs me with meetups, bugs me in my career, bugs me with admin stuff, bugs me with tailmakers. Fine, suggest to them how you think it should be done, but if they don't take your advice they have that right, too. If you're not okay with that, it would really be better if you went somewhere else. Not because anyone doesn't want you here, but because you're most likely never going to be happy with the way things are run.

And in before all the, "WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT SHOW ME WHERE I DID THAT I NEVER SAID THAT, YOU'RE TOTALLY ATTACKING ME, etc." This is how I see some posts. Doesn't mean I hate you, doesn't mean I think you're bad, doesn't mean I think that's all there is, I fully admit that I could be wrong and I probably will change my opinion at some point in the future. I also tried to make my point without mentioning specific names or instances in case it could be construed as name-calling or calling someone out. Okay? Okay.

(I try to stay out of drama because people always tend to PM me angrily after I post...for some reason my posts always come off as attacking.)

I sort of felt I needed to add more...I personally don't feel like I can post a lot of things. I've been told my religious beliefs are ridiculous, called names because of my views on seafood and sexual orientation. I've been called "Raina's puppy." I've been told I'm driving people away from the community, had to explain and re-explain several of my posts. I honestly feel like there's this big division with some established mers on one side and others on the other side...and I'm TRYING to straddle the middle but being shoved into one side. Anyone who knows me knows I'm...well, I'm sort of a marshmallow. I believe in being kind to everyone so I try to phrase things extremely nicely, even when I'm peeved. I'm one of the first people who would jump in and help and welcome you and make you feel included. So all of the animosity...I just don't get it, and I don't understand why it's directed at me. So I definitely understand how some people would be hesitant to post on here, and why some people just are tired of the infighting. Sometimes we just want to say, "We get it, you feel wronged, they've stated their side, you've stated your side, can we get over it now?"

[Kanti]

@Thalassa: Well you should never feel like you can't speak your opinion, that's not right. If people are PMing
you about it simply block them. That's nonsense that people tease you for speaking your mind.

And as for the admin position, sorry if it seemed like it, but I was in no was demanding it. I was sort of
just offering my help since Iona said being an admin was extremely stressful. My terms of giving her suggestions
as to what to do were also not demands either. I simply stated why the old way of censoring drama wasn't working
and, clearly, it wasn't since many people were voicing disapproval at the locked threads and even more so in the
original threads where people were trying to stay on topic.
I never MADE Iona do anything, I suggested what was the most logical. Never once did I tell her she HAD to do
anything or DEMANDED she do anything. I just voiced my disapproval and explained what I thought was a more
logical way to do things.

And, not to sound mean, but how do you know who is more experienced? Rather, how do you even know who is more
or less fit to make a judgement or decision? That is actually a logical fallacy, and it's actually one of my favorites.
It's called the argument from authority. It's basically when you assume that just because one person has more
experience or is in a higher position than someone else, they therefore must be automatically more intelligent than
anyone else who is in a lower position. It's basically like saying "Oh well he MUST be right, he is a SCIENCE teacher
after all and you're just a student". It's a fallacy that people often use to demean other's opinions or thoughts simply
based on the idea that one person comes from authority.
In other words, my and anyone else's ideas have the potential to be better than Iona's, even if she is an admin. That
means nothing, it is just a title. Reasoning and logic are what you use to determine what works, not some title you have.

Of course, I assume that post was directed towards me, if it wasn't, sorry for seeming so confrontational, but my points
are still valid.

[Thalassa]

I'm confused: from the way your post read, it sounds like you think experience counts for absolutely nothing? Sorry, but I don't believe that. I count experience as having done something fairly successfully for a period of time (usually more than 6 months to a year, depending on the thing). Someone who has experience has tried different things, has a better feel for what works. Yes, there's ideas. But there's also practical knowledge. For example, a lot of the parents of kids I teach have "great ideas" that have some merit. But they're just not practicable. I know this because I'm a teacher. Is it because of my title that I know this? No, it's because they honestly have no idea of the time, curriculum, and management limits there are. They don't know that this exact thing has been tried. They really wouldn't know how to do what I do, because as much as they think they know, they haven't done it. So I consider their opinion, change stuff I can, and then discard anything not practicable or that I think is flawed. Because for every person that doesn't agree with me there is someone who will, and eventually everyone has to accept that there's someone who knows more than they do and either learn from it or sulk.

And nope this post was directed at a few different people that have done similar things. I can think of at least three instances offhand where people got hurt because their opinions were being "ignored" or not implemented, in one instance when they were even told it would be taken under consideration. I feel like those who stepped up, took charge and have done so successfully have earned the right to say, "Look, it's been thought about, and no." If they have to explain every decision, then re-explain why they didn't do it your way, then re-explain why it is that they don't have to take your advice...do you see how that can get extremely annoying and how a person might want to say, "Look, if you think you know so much more, go do it yourself somewhere else and leave me alone."

[Thalassa]

Other parents of mine have "great ideas" that they KNOW are totally "Logical" and get upset at me for not taking their advice. You know, logical ideas like helping their kids do the questions on a test that's designed to gauge what their students can do on their own...that sort of thing. Everyone's opinions seem logical to them, so the logical opinion you have doesn't match up with the logical opinion the other person has...so yeah, in that case I'd either go with the opinion I think is more logical or if I don't know I would go to the person who I feel has more experience.

[Elle]

You gotta hate the internet sometimes. Tones and attitudes get put to words, which may not have been the intention in the first place. Automatically people are marked as rude and mean and horrible in general.
While it's obvious there is tension between some people, I don't think we should be using it was fuel for the fire.

[Mer_Adella]

You gotta hate the internet sometimes. Tones and attitudes get put to words, which may not have been the intention in the first place. Automatically people are marked as rude and mean and horrible in general.
While it's obvious there is tension between some people, I don't think we should be using it was fuel for the fire.

You are soo correct in that statement Elle. Tones and attitudes do get put into words...sometimes just not as they should be. As I said before. Reading words and hearing words are two different things. They can have two seperate meanings. And I believe that is why there is much misconception on the internet. Taking a breath, ripping a piece of paper and even walking away for a few minutes and then coming back to something can give you a whole different meaning to what you read before. I dont know, maybe thats just me, but I know that a lot of people have done it too.

As far as being an admin, yes I am sure that it is stressful, but remember that Iona is only one admin, there is another but he is busy with his life. So she can't (or shouldn't) just appoint someone without consulting all other persons first. And then it has to be unanimous decision.

[Kanti]

I'm confused: from the way your post read, it sounds like you think experience counts for absolutely nothing? Sorry, but I don't believe that. I count experience as having done something fairly successfully for a period of time (usually more than 6 months to a year, depending on the thing). Someone who has experience has tried different things, has a better feel for what works. Yes, there's ideas. But there's also practical knowledge. For example, a lot of the parents of kids I teach have "great ideas" that have some merit. But they're just not practicable. I know this because I'm a teacher. Is it because of my title that I know this? No, it's because they honestly have no idea of the time, curriculum, and management limits there are. They don't know that this exact thing has been tried. They really wouldn't know how to do what I do, because as much as they think they know, they haven't done it. So I consider their opinion, change stuff I can, and then discard anything not practicable or that I think is flawed. Because for every person that doesn't agree with me there is someone who will, and eventually everyone has to accept that there's someone who knows more than they do and either learn from it or sulk.

No not at all. I never even suggested that experience doesn't count for anything. Where did you read that?
I sort of feel like I'm being oversimplified or maybe my entire thoughts aren't being read. I simply said to assume
that just because one is considered to have more experience does NOT automatically make them right.
Experience is great and highly recommended, but people without experience are perfectly capable of making
good suggestions. You seemed to imply that someone without experience should have no place suggesting
anything to someone with experience, hence your "argument from authority" fallacy.
Another thing, as I said, how do you know I have no experience? Did you even ask me what my experience
in leadership, forums, or behavioral issues even was? So on top of that you're even assuming you know who
I am, which is never a good thing.


And nope this post was directed at a few different people that have done similar things. I can think of at least three instances offhand where people got hurt because their opinions were being "ignored" or not implemented, in one instance when they were even told it would be taken under consideration. I feel like those who stepped up, took charge and have done so successfully have earned the right to say, "Look, it's been thought about, and no." If they have to explain every decision, then re-explain why they didn't do it your way, then re-explain why it is that they don't have to take your advice...do you see how that can get extremely annoying and how a person might want to say, "Look, if you think you know so much more, go do it yourself somewhere else and leave me alone."

Ah well since I was doing it at the time I felt the need to explain myself. Again, I am not coming off as rude
or condescending, I just want to explain. And yes, it's annoying when people EXPECT to have their ideas
implemented, but don't you think when an idea is given that COULD work and someone just blows it off for
another idea that has already been tried and people are complaining about don't you think maybe a new idea
is worth a shot at least? It doesn't even have to be mine, let's take a vote and make a forum asking people
what their ideas would be and then vote on it.
"It's been thought about" is also not fair to say when you have a method that isn't working and making people
upset on both ends and then you don't even bother to try a new idea.
Saying "if you think you know so much more go yourself and leave me alone" is also incredibly rude. Honeslty
just because someone wants to suggest an idea so bad, why not try it? Then if it's really set up to fail so badly
and fails instantly then you can just say "Oh we tried your idea, it didn't work". To tell someone to buzz off just
because they think their idea should be implemented is lame is what some sort of emperor would do. DON'T
LIKE HOW I DO THINGS? YOU CAN LEAVE. Rather than "don't like how I do things? explain why, if they're
good I'll try them, if they're bad I'll tell you why we can't do them".
On that point, NO ONE explained why my idea was bad nor said why theirs was superior. So that again is a
reason why just blowing someone off is a bad idea. If you take the time to EXPLAIN why your idea is superior
over a new one and it makes sense, then sure, I'll stop asking right there.



Other parents of mine have "great ideas" that they KNOW are totally "Logical" and get upset at me for not taking their advice. You know, logical ideas like helping their kids do the questions on a test that's designed to gauge what their students can do on their own...that sort of thing. Everyone's opinions seem logical to them, so the logical opinion you have doesn't match up with the logical opinion the other person has...so yeah, in that case I'd either go with the opinion I think is more logical or if I don't know I would go to the person who I feel has more experience.

Well that's dumb then. If someone gives you an idea and it is logical and you can't argue why it shouldn't be
done then you're a fool for just throwing it out the window. And yea, that's why you talk about it. Also logic is
pretty universal and a LOT of the time things can be solved by talking about it an explaining your motives.
And there you go again with the argument from authority. Automatically going with someone who has more
experience doesn't mean they're right.
That'd be like someone asking a cowboy to check his boots before he puts them on everyday and he thinks that's
silly so doesn't do it because it's a waste of time. Well if they talked about it, maybe the person would suggest
"hey well, you know snakes and scorpions get into boots sometimes, and if one were to sting you it'd be a huge
waste of money having to go to the hospital for it when you can just take a minute to check". You're side of the
argument is literally like the cowboy saying: "Ahh yea, but I've been putting my boots on everyday for the past
16 years and that ain't never happened before so I don't think I'll do it".
Is the cowboy right? Maybe he is. Maybe in that case they'd have to see how many scorpions/snakes live in the
area and how many times that happens in the area. But even THAT would be applying LOGIC and reasoning.
To do what the cowboy does and to just continue what you do because nothing bad has happened yet is taking
a risk. "Well it's happened all the times before so what could go wrong!" That's basically a generalization of
experience.

[Kanti]

You gotta hate the internet sometimes. Tones and attitudes get put to words, which may not have been the intention in the first place. Automatically people are marked as rude and mean and horrible in general.
While it's obvious there is tension between some people, I don't think we should be using it was fuel for the fire.

Yea it's a slippery slope. A normal sentence is usually thought to be mean if it doesn't have a silly word in it or a smiley face or something of that nature. And I honestly find that unless you tell people that you're not trying to be rude or anything they sometimes get more hostile (or at least it seems so). But I always try to ask what people are feeling so I can gauge how their responses are put or I'll just evaluate them publicly so they can say whether they disagree with it or not.
It's always a good idea to ask "I'm sorry, are you angry at me?" or something of that nature just to see how the person is feeling.

[Kanti]

As far as being an admin, yes I am sure that it is stressful, but remember that Iona is only one admin, there is another but he is busy with his life. So she can't (or shouldn't) just appoint someone without consulting all other persons first. And then it has to be unanimous decision.

Yea I agree. I think if they're really considering another admin we should have a little forum where people can nominate others, nominate themselves, and then once we get an organization of people who we'd like to run and it's all finalized, we can make a forum where they each can say why they'd like to be an admin, why they think they're good for the job, etc. And then the people voting can ask them questions or raise points as to why they think that person would or wouldn't be a good admin.
I think the first test anyone should pass is being alright with being called out for something. If you call a person who wishes to be admin out for having temper problems where he or she generally seems to be quick with people and the pre-admin gets upset or defends themselves in an inappropriate way that's bad.
They need to be able to address the situation in a calm and emotion-free manner. They need to be able to say "Why do you think that? Do you have any instances?" rather than "I don't lie! Whoever said that is slandering me or you're just misinterpreting what I said. I never lie!"

[Usagi]

It bugs me with meetups, bugs me in my career, bugs me with admin stuff, bugs me with tailmakers.
Aren't meetups supposed to be a group thing? Like everyone can suggest ideas for what they think they should do? I've yet to go to one, so I don't know....but now I'm confused. Are meetups totally ruled by one person?

[Kanti]

Yea meetups are pretty much organized by anyone who wants to take it on themselves to do. Usually people just make a forum for it and everyone decides what day they'd like it.

[Ayla of Duluth]

Yea I agree. I think if they're really considering another admin we should have a little forum where people can nominate others, nominate themselves, and then once we get an organization of people who we'd like to run and it's all finalized, we can make a forum where they each can say why they'd like to be an admin, why they think they're good for the job, etc. And then the people voting can ask them questions or raise points as to why they think that person would or wouldn't be a good admin.
I nominate myself.

[Kanti]

Well I'm not in charge, if anything you should ask Iona to make the forums that apply to this since it will be her
and Malinghi who will decide ultimately who they choose and whether or not they want to choose a new admin.

[-Annwyn-]

Raina, what the actual frag!? I didn't make any fake accounts to start dramas. At all. Period. If I wanted to say something abrasive I would just say it, I do not need to hide behind sockpuppets like 'MerVee', or 'Mike Antonio'. There you go again accusing people of things they didn't do. You even accused me of privately harrassing Kae Leah, so what on earth would make you think that I would trust you? Also, Lexi and her mother work together in the same building, yet you insisted to everyone that Lexi was making fake profiles, even when both parties came forth and told you the truth. Regardless, I am not going to divert my attention from you showing double standards.


I love how these little factoids were so conveniently glossed over.

Shall I add also the times Chris was baited back to the Mernetwork by Raina to fight Eric's boyfriend and the time she attacked Bonnie for being a puppet of Chris' and threatened to get her banned based on no evidence at all.

[Elle]

I love how these little factoids were so conveniently glossed over.

Shall I add also the times Chris was baited back to the Mernetwork by Raina to fight Eric's boyfriend and the time she attacked Bonnie for being a puppet of Chris' and threatened to get her banned based on no evidence at all.

Then shall we all bring up the big spat you and chris had with Stevi? on her facebook wall, calling her slut and everything else???
What's the point? Honestly? Does it make you feel better about yourself?

[-Annwyn-]

Then shall we all bring up the big spat you and chris had with Stevi? on her facebook wall, calling her slut and everything else???
What's the point? Honestly? Does it make you feel better about yourself?


I didn't have a spat with Stevi. I praised Shelly's tail on my own facebook page and Stevi decided to invite herself to the thread and cause trouble because she assumed it was her we were talking about when she wasn't even named. I didn't call her a slut. And I had every right to be pissed at her for ripping off Shelly's techniques.

Stevi blocked me anyways from accessing her page anyways so calling her 'a slut' on her own facebook page would not have been even remotely possible.

Get your facts straight Elle.

[Thalassa]

Kanti, that's sort of what I'm talking about. You and I don't agree. I think your opinion is illogical and it's dumb to try the same thing over and over and to waste time just because someone who has no idea what they're talking about had an idea that they won't let go of. You, on the other hand, think it's dumb to discount someone's idea just because it's been tried or you think it won't work. So we have differing opinions. Now, if I were an admin (not saying I ever should be) I would be quite hesitant to promote you because I'd feel you'd be on my back about things and unable to see my side. You, as well, would likely be as hesitant to put mien charge of anything valuable to you because you'd feel I'd unnecessarily discount others and not listen. I am not saying you demanded to be an admin or that people implement your ideas. You were, however, seeming extremely upset that in your opinion people weren't taking you seriously. I stepped in to try to state my opinion in response to the opinions you were posting, and to explain another side you possibly weren't seeing. I do that a lot, and it always seems to be taken badly. So here I am explaining my explanation again. I will not argue to the death with you because it's not my style. It always goes the same: person of opinion A posts, person of opinion B posts back, person of opinion A states opinion again and perhaps a supporting argument, person B state opinion again and an argument, eventually there's always an accusation of not reading a post or oversimplifying, some "I never said that," and it keeps going with both sides getting more frustrated (and the onlookers getting more tired of it) until someone decides to step away and accept that there is a difference of opinion.

I personally get tired of one-sided whinefests and tend to step in to explain the other side in hopes that they'll see that everyone's human, we all make mistakes and all have different opinions and that that's okay...which is kind of like stepping into the lion's den during feeding time and trying to explain the human point of view, I realize. But I know how I'd feel if I were the target of these things and was just trying to do my best, and I don't want anyone to feel that way.

As for the meet ups question: in trying to avoid any sort of specifics, I used the wrong word. Now, as I've seen with Iona, having been tired or upset or simply mistyping doesn't matter to people who are upset, but there it is. What I meant to be talking about was an event that was out on by the mer-community that someone (or a couple of people) decided should be run differently. Although the event was already underway, they kept posting and being upset because the event coordinators didn't drop everything for their idea and revamp the whole thing. Now, I saw their point. I also thought it wasn't that big of a deal. I also didn't start to get annoyed until they wouldn't shut up and pulled the old, "Fine, well nobody's going to listen to me, I'll just leave" which really gets my goat. I wasn't quite sure what to call that event, I guess a mer-activity or event? Meet ups, in my experience they're often not planned by everybody but by one person who steps up and take charge, and everybody else shows up. When that person ceases to take charge, the meet ups cease to happen. It's not good, and maybe I've just had bad experiences with meet ups? Are they supposed to be planned by committee or something? I honestly have no idea.

I also agree that the Internet is a great and horrible thing. Great because it brings all sorts of people together, horrible because it often creates misunderstanding. Not only through not conveying tone and such, but also through the anonymity factor. I mean, if you were to say some things about someone with them standing there, tears welling up or a heartbroken expression, unless you're heartless you'd think twice about saying those things about them. You'd understand the human part. If you were arguing with someone and you saw the conviction and caring about others in their eyes you'd likely be more understanding of their opinion than when it's represented by a wall of text and a frozen picture. I know many times I've felt like if people could just hear what I'm saying my explanations would be cut in half.

Also, sorry for the wall o' text. I feel like I've explained my side of things pretty thoroughly and I'm stepping away now. If anyone has a new question I'll answer it, but the experience thing and admin thing...they can read my previous posts.

[Elle]

I didn't have a spat with Stevi. I praised Shelly's tail on my own facebook page and Stevi decided to invite herself to the thread and cause trouble because she assumed it was her we were talking about when she wasn't even named. I didn't call her a slut. And I had every right to be pissed at her for ripping off Shelly's techniques.

Stevi blocked me anyways from accessing her page anyways so calling her 'a slut' on her own facebook page would not have been even remotely possible.

Get your facts straight Elle.


I literally groan every time I see your name pop up, cos I know everything you post is full of hate.
I'm sorry that your life is so full of hate that you have to take it out on everyone. We were discussing the pros and cons of mernetwork as a site, and how hard it must be and you bring up old crap that is being resolved.
Maybe you need to get your facts straight to.

Sorry you have so much hate in your heart that you can't let anything go

[Kanti]

I literally groan every time I see your name pop up, cos I know everything you post is full of hate.
I'm sorry that your life is so full of hate that you have to take it out on everyone. We were discussing the pros and cons of mernetwork as a site, and how hard it must be and you bring up old crap that is being resolved.
Maybe you need to get your facts straight to.

Sorry you have so much hate in your heart that you can't let anything go

Not to seem to confrontational, but telling someone you're sorry they have so much hatred isn't really addressing the situation. I don't really see Aela hating on anyone, she's just clearly pissed off at a lot of unfair things. And as of this point I actually agree with her as Raina has gone on for long periods of time doing dramatic things and she never gets talked to whereas Chris says something or Aela and everyone is free to call her a bitch for it and not so much as get a warning.

She was telling you what happened, whether it be true or not you can't be sure I guess unless you saw the conversation yourself or she still had it. But I think she has a right to be mad since you said something about her and she responded by saying it's not true and explained.

I didn't see Aela taking hate out on anyone, she was just explaining the situation. She's clearly mad about it, but that's what this thread is for.

[Kanti]

Kanti, that's sort of what I'm talking about. You and I don't agree. I think your opinion is illogical and it's dumb to try the same thing over and over and to waste time just because someone who has no idea what they're talking about had an idea that they won't let go of. You, on the other hand, think it's dumb to discount someone's idea just because it's been tried or you think it won't work. So we have differing opinions. Now, if I were an admin (not saying I ever should be) I would be quite hesitant to promote you because I'd feel you'd be on my back about things and unable to see my side. You, as well, would likely be as hesitant to put mien charge of anything valuable to you because you'd feel I'd unnecessarily discount others and not listen. I am not saying you demanded to be an admin or that people implement your ideas. You were, however, seeming extremely upset that in your opinion people weren't taking you seriously. I stepped in to try to state my opinion in response to the opinions you were posting, and to explain another side you possibly weren't seeing. I do that a lot, and it always seems to be taken badly. So here I am explaining my explanation again. I will not argue to the death with you because it's not my style. It always goes the same: person of opinion A posts, person of opinion B posts back, person of opinion A states opinion again and perhaps a supporting argument, person B state opinion again and an argument, eventually there's always an accusation of not reading a post or oversimplifying, some "I never said that," and it keeps going with both sides getting more frustrated (and the onlookers getting more tired of it) until someone decides to step away and accept that there is a difference of opinion.

I'm sorry? This doesn't make quite sense. And you're wrong. We don't agree for now, but at least I am doing my best to explain my point of view so as we can come to an agreement. You, as far as the conversation has come, are making generalizations about me and what I want done. You seemed to insinuate that I was DEMANGING something be tried when I wasn't at all? I said "Look, your methods aren't working, so why not try this? [insert explanation of my method here]." Am I not allowed to repeat it when it is IGNORED and a reason is not given as to WHY we shouldn't go with that?
Iona never addressed me or why my way would not work. She just IGNORED ME. Even when I suggested something was dramatic, she did not say "Hey Kanti, that's fine but I don't think this is dramatic and here's why" she literally did not answer me. I even tried to make the situation a bit easier for her, as I know disagreeing with someone is hard, and sent her another message telling her it's okay if she doesn't agree with me and if she thought I was out of line, to tell me.
And I was repeating things not because I was upset people weren't agreeing, I was upset when people don't tell me whether it's a bad idea or not. And actually I was simply doing something that would benefit both sides, the people being dramatic and the people who don't want drama. Iona's way was only benefitting the people who caused drama, because, Raina tends to cause drama, but Iona likes Raina and didn't want to pull her post into the drama thread. She let her keep going and then everything got dramatic, just like I suggested it would, and the thread ended up dying, and a lot of people got annoyed with it.
I am not BIASED and if I was an admin I would not do things or tell people I don't like their ideas just because it's that person, as you suggested when saying you were an admin and I was an admin, I only do things that are LOGICAL. And as I said, logic is universal. You can think someone is illogical but you find that it was actually you all along because illogical people can't back their motives. They run into errors and holes in their thinking because they are, indeed, illogical.



I personally get tired of one-sided whinefests and tend to step in to explain the other side in hopes that they'll see that everyone's human, we all make mistakes and all have different opinions and that that's okay...which is kind of like stepping into the lion's den during feeding time and trying to explain the human point of view, I realize. But I know how I'd feel if I were the target of these things and was just trying to do my best, and I don't want anyone to feel that way.

Well that's not a very good move. So you just choose the opposite side and defend? So if someone was bullying someone else and it was a "one-sided whinefest" where everyone was complaining that the bully was a bad person, you'd step on the opposite side and be like "hey guys! he's just human!". Well that's bad and has nothing to do with making mistakes. People can be AGAINST something and not ANGRY at it. Like I'm against your opinion and think it's poorly thought out, but I don't dislike you as a person. The problem seems to be you attach too much emotion to arguments.
If someone is being WRONG you tell them, "you're wrong" it doesn't mean you can't say "you maybe made a mistake" or "you're just human" but you never just side with someone because the majority or minority is on your side.
The RIGHT thing to do in that situation is to side with the people who say bullying is wrong, but to explain to the people who MAY be overreacting to not be SO HARD on the person because it may just be a mistake.
Also that's very rude saying that there are "one-sided whinefests". So are all arguments whinefests? No.. And even if some of them resort to that, who cares? Why involve yourself in that and pick sides if you think it's nothing but a "whinefest"? That literally makes zero sense.


As for the meet ups question: in trying to avoid any sort of specifics, I used the wrong word. Now, as I've seen with Iona, having been tired or upset or simply mistyping doesn't matter to people who are upset, but there it is. What I meant to be talking about was an event that was out on by the mer-community that someone (or a couple of people) decided should be run differently. Although the event was already underway, they kept posting and being upset because the event coordinators didn't drop everything for their idea and revamp the whole thing. Now, I saw their point. I also thought it wasn't that big of a deal. I also didn't start to get annoyed until they wouldn't shut up and pulled the old, "Fine, well nobody's going to listen to me, I'll just leave" which really gets my goat. I wasn't quite sure what to call that event, I guess a mer-activity or event? Meet ups, in my experience they're often not planned by everybody but by one person who steps up and take charge, and everybody else shows up. When that person ceases to take charge, the meet ups cease to happen. It's not good, and maybe I've just had bad experiences with meet ups? Are they supposed to be planned by committee or something? I honestly have no idea.

Yes I realized you mistyped with the meetup because there is no admin activity in those.
And again, those people probably were ignored and that's why they were upset. If someone suggests something, you can tell them WHY you don't go with their plan. If someone suggested "hey lets put a mer-tank at the event!" they might think that's a great idea and when no one responds they can't imagine why and get upset.
You know what would shut that person up? If you put some LOGIC and explained to them why it's not a good idea. You could say "it would be cool, but a mer-tank costs a LOT of money, we don't have that, and it costs a ton of money to move, fill, warm, etc. It won't fit our budget". Then the person would either give up or give another way they think they could support that, then you just talk them through it.
And for an event, a LOT of the deciding goes up to whoever is planning the event or paying for it, so of course they get the main say. If someone is taking the time to COORDINATE the event, pay for it, rent the hotel, fill out the MOUNTAINS AND MOUNTAINS of paperwork, then they can tell THAT to whoever is upset that people aren't taking their ideas. That's what they could say.


I also agree that the Internet is a great and horrible thing. Great because it brings all sorts of people together, horrible because it often creates misunderstanding. Not only through not conveying tone and such, but also through the anonymity factor. I mean, if you were to say some things about someone with them standing there, tears welling up or a heartbroken expression, unless you're heartless you'd think twice about saying those things about them. You'd understand the human part. If you were arguing with someone and you saw the conviction and caring about others in their eyes you'd likely be more understanding of their opinion than when it's represented by a wall of text and a frozen picture. I know many times I've felt like if people could just hear what I'm saying my explanations would be cut in half.

Also, sorry for the wall o' text. I feel like I've explained my side of things pretty thoroughly and I'm stepping away now. If anyone has a new question I'll answer it, but the experience thing and admin thing...they can read my previous posts.

The key to not offending or making people upset through disagreements is to not attach emotion to it.
People disagree all the time, about favorite colors, favorite bands, how you think something should be done, and that's fine. It's normal. What's problematic is when people get all offended when you disagree with them. If someone tells you your idea is bad, you should not get offended, you should ask why it's bad. If they can provide you logic, you should accept that. If they can't, maybe then you have a right to be mad, as that person had no reason to tell you it was a bad idea and that maybe they are the ones who don't know what they're talking about.

And it's fine that you typed alot, I type a lot as well.

[-Annwyn-]

I literally groan every time I see your name pop up, cos I know everything you post is full of hate.
I'm sorry that your life is so full of hate that you have to take it out on everyone. We were discussing the pros and cons of mernetwork as a site, and how hard it must be and you bring up old crap that is being resolved.
Maybe you need to get your facts straight to.

Sorry you have so much hate in your heart that you can't let anything go


Everything? Taking it out on everyone? Wow, that's a sweeping generalisation and here I was being specific. I'm guessing, you simply don't like me expressing my opinion and reminding everyone of the fact Raina uses and hurts people. You might not like it, but accept it because it's true.

Kanti is correct, you are not addressing the situation by telling me how 'hateful' I am being, when at the same time you are telling lies as it suits you.

[Blondie]

I literally groan every time I see your name pop up, cos I know everything you post is full of hate.
I'm sorry that your life is so full of hate that you have to take it out on everyone. We were discussing the pros and cons of mernetwork as a site, and how hard it must be and you bring up old crap that is being resolved.
Maybe you need to get your facts straight to.

Sorry you have so much hate in your heart that you can't let anything go

I'm going to side with Aela and Kanti on this one, you can't back up what you said. I never heard anything about Aela calling Stevi a slut. The only person who ever got in a name calling fight with Stevi that was highly published was Eric.

EDIT: I don't think it was Eric, I think it was a friend of Eric actually....

[Winged Mermaid]

In my annoyance, I'm just going to leave these here. I'm not necessarily irritated because someone is copying someone else. Raven has become like Hannah in that as soon as she does something or creates something new everyone turns right around and copies her. She's an innovator for a lot of things, and the person who created the mermaid accessory style (with seaweed and netting and all that) as we know them today. She sets the trends, and she keeps evolving and coming up with original ideas. There are people like that, and copying happens. However when someone is supposed to be a professional tailmaker this it rubs me the wrong way. That on it's own I could let go, keep scrolling, and obviously wouldn't be posting.

It's the fact that he's proven to me and everyone else that he is BETTER THAN THIS. It took Eric quit a few years to get on his feet- and there were obviously some serious rough patches along the way- but I really think this past year he's done it. He's set high bars, he's exploded into the world and he's come up with some wonderful original works of art. Copying something like this was something I'd expect from the old Mertailor, in his early years, trying to compete and establish himself in the market by whatever means necessary. But now he doesn't need that- it's below him and THAT'S why it makes me so upset. I this behavior as him backsliding from how far he's come. And honestly even though he probably hates me and the forum, I am damn proud of how far he's come and how he's evolved. (I am proud of everyone in the community for their success regardless if I agree or disagree with them.) Eric can fly high on his own without copying others. I wish he's stop doubting himself. Every time this happens it makes him look bad and discredits his originality when I know he has it in him to make beautiful completely original works. I'm probably over reacting. But I just wanted to vent. (And just FYI I will not argue back if anyone has something to say to the contrary, as I'm not looking to start a fight.)


10456
Source (https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/603398_406863342703085_849656610_n.jpg)

10458

10457
Source (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=626392504045002&set=a.132774660073458.23984.130816216935969&type=1&relevant_count=1)

[Ayla of Duluth]

This is the only thing stopping me from siding with the Mertailor. Honestly? I agree with you, Iona. Eric has come a long way, he's made lots of mistakes, but I have noticed him turn a lot of that around. But in the mermaid community, there is nothing that makes me more angry (and I do NOT use that term loosely, I mean red in the face, going to rip someone's organs out infuriated) than his blatant copying of everything Raven does. Her color schemes, her raised scales, her fluke shapes, he's even copied other member's ideas for tail shapes from here before. That's one of the lowest, most childish...I can't even think of a word strong enough to describe it. Its just deplorable.
I think it only makes me this angry because he has a hoard of blind fans and followers who, if you call him out for doing anything wrong, will jump down your throat and not even try to seek the truth. Raven deserves the credit for everything she comes up with, but only the people in this close community can see what Mertailor still does. Seeing someone else's creation and building off of that or using it for inspiration is one thing. I did that with the stripes on my tail after I saw the ones on Raven's orange tail, but my tail is also a 100% original design. Eric didn't even try to change up this color scheme. Its like he just traced it...I'm gonna stop there before I start the name calling and unnecessary attacks.

I just wish there was some way of letting his blind followers know that this design was originally someone else's, and he did nothing short of copy it down to the last shade of turquoise, and I feel like he really should be called out for all the tails and color schemes he's blatantly stolen from other people. I just pray that he doesn't end up copying my design. Like I said, it's 100% unique and I'd feel devastated and crushed if he made a tail like mine.

[Blondie]

I highly agree. I saw this and I sort of frowned. He has the ability to be great. But... I don't understand why he takes some of Raven's color schemes. I don't get all up in arms when people do, let's say a clownfish. Or even a trout. Or a common fish, because well... of course they'll look the same because that's what the fish looks like. But when people take the same exact color schemes from custom colored tails, it makes me a little sad....

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/376614_415539855168767_855955031_n.jpg

http://www.themertailor.com/images/mertailor/gallery/21_Green_1.jpg

[Kanti]

Well I guess here I go, but I'm going to jump on the controversial train again.

Anyway, I'll start this massive rant with probably THE weirdest thing about everything you just said, Iona, and that is the fact that you compared Raven to Hannah as being "innovative", "setting the trends" and for "inventing" and quite frankly, I actually had to sit down for a couple minutes before typing this to compare Hannah to Raven and actually find something in common. Unfortunately, while I do agree to a certain extent that Raven possesses these qualities, the only real resemblance I could find between her and Hannah is that they both happen to like mermaids and wear mermaid tails. I find that the Mertailor is about 12 times a more closer resemblance to Hannah than Raven has ever been.
Hannah gets herself out there. She does documentaries, films, commercials, is interviewed by news teams, attends support groups, goes for activism, and just generally gets shit done by mermaid standards. I find Eric to be almost a complete carbon copy of Hannah except the fact that he sells tails and goes for a more poppy-culture type of feel rather than Hannah's core environmentalism feel.
Eric does commercials, news interviews, films, attends support groups, does gigs for celebrities and most importantly, he shows that to be a mermaid isn't just to sit around and do kid-related activities all day. Eric and Hannah are both amazing because they break the typical mermaid definition as something that's immature, childish and something as Nate would say, "something only prepubescent girls can get excited about". I find that while Raven is very good at working with children, she has a VERY hard time breaking free of this comfort zone. She just sort of reinforces the mermaid stereotype rather than breaking it. Being innovative isn't doing something cool, it's breaking society's expectations and coming out with something COMPLETELY new and different. It's like saying comedians like Tosh.0 are innovative, when in reality, all they do is just shock value that's completely uncontroversial and already done by 90% of all other comedians out there. Daniel Tosh is still a REALLY funny comedian with lots to offer but he is NOT innovative. An example of an innovative comedian would be Lenny Bruce, someone who completely destroyed what used to be considered comedy by actually using cuss words *gasp!*. Thanks to Bruce we have comedy where people CUSS because if it weren't for him we'd still be using words like "fiddlesticks" and "blimey" in our comedy. Raven is GOOD at what she does but she is NOT an innovator. Everything she's doing right now Weekie Wachee mermaids have been doing for decades.
On the other hand, Hannah and Eric both stray as far away from that as possible, making mermaids more about the MERMAID rather than it just being some kiddy experience. I'd actually be daring enough to say that perhaps in a different light, Eric is even MORE innovative than Hannah in the sense that he is a MAN and men are generally not allowed to be mermaids without getting scoffed at. Whereas Hannah gets her job handed to her for being a beautiful, attractive female who basically looks like everyone's expectations of the ideal mermaid, Eric is a man who still gets himself out there and bes himself, and I literally CAN'T even begin to imagine the hundreds of crossed looks he's gotten on his way to where he is now.
While I agree Raven is artistic quite good at what she does, I can't really say that she's really given us much that we already didn't have. I'm even a bit iffy to give her the shell tops since those have been around for forever, but even if that was given to us by Raven that's about as innovative as the person who invented skinny jeans. Sure, they're jeans, but look, they're different? Like many other people, I agree she has great sculpting abilities, has very nice attention to detail, and her paintjobs on tails are probably the most spectacular I've seen thus far. But again, that's not being innovative, it's just being good at those things.
On another level, she FINALLY came out with another fluke design whereas Eric has around 6-8 as of now? But I don't really want that to come off as complaining, but rather, I believe the reason for this is that Raven is never pushed to do anything. Everyone is already so entranced with her work, she doesn't have to try to impress anyone anymore. When you take a look at the Mertailor reviews you see things put in a negative light like "tail took 4-5 months to get here" "didn't receive emails" and when you look in the Raven forum you see people who have been waiting that long with no emails and have big smiles across their faces, not wanting to "bother" Raven with emails when you paid $1k for something. I can't really blame Raven for being slow on her tail designs because why would anyone try very hard to get dressed fancy when everyday they get a round of applause for getting their underwear on right?
For the actual color copying thing, I'll consider taking you seriously when you go and find the picture of Raina's tail and compare it to the Splash tail and then re-write this entire paragraph at Raven for not being innovative enough to come out with her own colorscheme and instead to have degraded herself in such a way to have to copy a movie.
That's another thing I don't get, why is it completely okay to go around copying movies but when another mer copies a design from someone else it's a huge steal? You know someone WAS behind the Splash tail design and you ARE copying them. Not to mention, I also disagree when you'd have to go off on a tangent and make a whole new colorscheme just because you don't want to "copy" someone. Not only are there probably a couple fish already in existance with the same/similar colorschemes than Raven herself probably copied, but what if the customer liked those colors from the Merbella tail but prefered the Mertailor fluke? Or what if it was just in their best interest, what if they just wanted to go with Mertailor? They have to instead CHOOSE between things? That's ridiculous. I guess I'm about to be guilty of the same thing as one of the people who bought a tail from me liked a Mertailor colorscheme. Guess I better tell that person that I can't do that and they better be more creative or else I can't make their tail.
On a final note I think if someone concerns themselves that much with people who copy them, that is a weakness in themself. Well, more if you're a tailmaker than a regular joe, because then you're just announcing to everyone that you're not good enough at coming up with new ideas and that you need to concern yourself with shouting "COPYCAT" and trying to get your design off another tailmaker's shelves who may just be sculpting the design better than you. Who cares about copying? Not only are half the designs based off real fish anyway, but if the person took the time to recreate their own version of what you made, let them. They already did all the work. The BAD THING would be if the Mertailor was buying off Merbella's flukes and making molds off the design exactly as they are, and I don't see that happening. What I see instead is for every 1 thing the Mertailor has copied, he has created 200 original works. It'd be a different story if ALL HE DID was copy but that's not how it is. He has his own stuff.

[Ayla of Duluth]

I see where your coming from Kanti, but something just occurred to me. Most of the time, when someone has a splash, 13th year, or whatever style tail, they mention it. Raina has mentioned many times that her tail is splash inspired, and a lot of other people mention that their tail is modeled after such and such a tail. Mertailor doesn't do that. I think it would upset a lot less people if he had said "design was inspired/design was my rendition of Raven's tail" or something to that effect. But he doesn't, he just posts it and lets some people believe he came up with it all on his own. If he copied my tail design, I would be very mad, but I feel like if he said "this tail is my rendition of Mermaid Ayla's tail" I wouldn't be mad at all. I may even feel flattered that he made my pattern. Its just a matter of giving credit where credit is due. Idk, I was just thinking that. Its a stretch, but its a counterargument nonetheless. :)

Edit: if he gives credit where credit is due already, then props to him. I can't get to personal with these arguments because I really haven't heard anything on the Mertailor after that whole drama thing with his customer service or whatever that was.

[AnnaAbyss]

This is the only thing stopping me from siding with the Mertailor. Honestly? I agree with you, Iona. Eric has come a long way, he's made lots of mistakes, but I have noticed him turn a lot of that around. But in the mermaid community, there is nothing that makes me more angry (and I do NOT use that term loosely, I mean red in the face, going to rip someone's organs out infuriated) than his blatant copying of everything Raven does. Her color schemes, her raised scales, her fluke shapes, he's even copied other member's ideas for tail shapes from here before. That's one of the lowest, most childish...I can't even think of a word strong enough to describe it. Its just deplorable.
I think it only makes me this angry because he has a hoard of blind fans and followers who, if you call him out for doing anything wrong, will jump down your throat and not even try to seek the truth. Raven deserves the credit for everything she comes up with, but only the people in this close community can see what Mertailor still does. Seeing someone else's creation and building off of that or using it for inspiration is one thing. I did that with the stripes on my tail after I saw the ones on Raven's orange tail, but my tail is also a 100% original design. Eric didn't even try to change up this color scheme. Its like he just traced it...I'm gonna stop there before I start the name calling and unnecessary attacks.

I just wish there was some way of letting his blind followers know that this design was originally someone else's, and he did nothing short of copy it down to the last shade of turquoise, and I feel like he really should be called out for all the tails and color schemes he's blatantly stolen from other people. I just pray that he doesn't end up copying my design. Like I said, it's 100% unique and I'd feel devastated and crushed if he made a tail like mine.



@Ayla Of Duluth: I know I'm not in this conversation/argument, but I agree with everything you've said here. THANKYOU! .3.

[Kanti]

I find that to be relevant, but a bit selfish.
While it is curteous to tell someone that you borrowed their design and give them credit, if you get upset at someone for them NOT mentioning it, perhaps you're too concerned with getting credit for things.
I find it to be like wandering Deviantart and finding that someone has completely copied a design for a creature I made. Sure I'm cross that they didn't credit me, but would I even have noticed OR cared if I had never seen it? Having someone have the same tail as you might be a bit saddening because, sure, you want to be original, but expecting or demanding that someone credit you because they borrowed your ideas is possessive.
It's like the guy who invented the Trollface. When he first made it, it completely blew up and people posted it around like crazy without crediting him and he got upset, but he realized that demanding credit for it every chance he got was needy and possessive. I think he said something along the lines of "instead of chasing people around and telling them it was my design, I figured I could instead do something productive and create something else just as great"

What's more important, being a mermaid or making sure everyone is crediting the design you made 5 years ago? >_>

[Mermaid Kelda]

I might just add that the fourth comment on that photo says: "The purple tail was based off of my "Medusa's Revenge" color scheme with their own tweak of color!!"
So, it's possible that the client was the one who copied Raven, not Eric. It's possible he didn't realise it was exactly the same as Raven's.

[Ayla of Duluth]

Yeah. I guess I just like to think that people are kind and considerate and know to to the right thing by giving credit where its due. But people aren't perfect and its unreasonable to ask for everyone to mention the original artist all the time, because its never gonna happen. Sad world we live in. :/

[Kanti]

If that's REALLY what you think Ayla, I hope that when you design your mermaid tails, you make a note on your drawings and credit the man/woman who designed mermaids in the first place. I guess you're guilty of your own crime in that sense?

To care about someone copying you is to be even more petty and sad than to not credit someone for their design.

[Kanti]

I might just add that the fourth comment on that photo says: "The purple tail was based off of my "Medusa's Revenge" color scheme with their own tweak of color!!"
So, it's possible that the client was the one who copied Raven, not Eric. It's possible he didn't realise it was exactly the same as Raven's.

That's possible as well. I'm pretty sure those tails are for clients, anyway, they probably are the ones who suggested the colorscheme.

[Ayla of Duluth]

all the tails I've ever designed, I drew myself. I would sit in the computer lab at school and draw koi fish tails and all that. The only tails I have ever "copied" are merbellas tails, and I do my best to make a note somewhere that it is a merbellas tail design. So I really don't see where that's coming from. But it's been a while, maybe I have a drawing somewhere that slipped through my radar.

also, ouch.

[Kanti]

Wasn't trying to be rude, just using your own logic to show you that you don't do or even expect anyone else to do those things if they don't fall into a certain category. It'd be like a boot designer being expected to credit the guy who invented boots every single time he made a new design. It's unrealistic, no one expects you to do it, and it's completely arbitrary and pointless aside from to give someone a "credit boner" when you advertise for them essentially. But there's a reason why no one does that. It's because we've already moved on past the shoe, to the boot, and now people need to be designing NEW things instead of complaining about "who designed which form of boot first" and "we need to credit them or else we're being inconsiderate for some reason". Caring so excessively about credit and making SUCH a big whoopin deal about "who did what" for such silly things like colorschemes and fluke designs is just holding people at the "shoe" stage when we could've moved onto the "boot" stage by now.

I'd also like to add a big "ouch" to the fact that you think anyone who doesn't credit someone is automatically someone who is lacking of kindness and consideration.

[Ayla of Duluth]

Wasn't trying to be rude, just using your own logic to show you that you don't do or even expect anyone else to do those things if they don't fall into a certain category. It'd be like a boot designer being expected to credit the guy who invented boots every single time he made a new design. Wouldn't we be crediting whoever invented mermaid tails as a costume instead of whoever designed the specific aspect you used?

Also, I didn't mean to say that people who don't give credit lack kindness or consideration. Its 2:30 in the morning, my thoughts are getting kind of jumbled. I guess I was just trying to say that personally, someone who gives credit in my eyes is more considerate and is doing the right thing more so than someone who doesn't. That doesn't mean to say that the person isn't considerate at all, it just means that when it comes to crediting whoever inspired you, the person giving credit in my eyes is more considerate than the person not mentioning them at all. To me it just seems like the right thing to do, and a simple thing at that. So I'm sorry if that hurt your feelings, I didn't mean for it to. Was just saying someone who gives credit makes me :) whereas someone who doesn't makes me :/

[Kanti]

It's alright! I don't take offense unless someone is blatantly calling me names or something xD
I know you're just trying to get your point across, no need to apologize! And understand that I am also not trying to be rude, just getting my point across as well.

And no, you'd be crediting the DESIGN, so therefore, you'd have to credit the person who designed mermaids, just as for the shoe, you have to credit the person who first designed the shoe.
The guy who invented mermaid tails as a costume should have (in theory) credited the guy who invented mermaids because that's where he got his design from.

I, personally, thing the right thing to do is to take a minute and think about it. Why do you care so much if someone has the same tail design as you? The only reason I can think of is for selfish reasons of you wanting to be original. Possessive reasons for believing that design is only worthy of being worn by you and that if someone so dares as to copy it you deserve credit. Selfish because you want everyone to know that YOU are the creator rather than just being pleased that you already have a tail with your design on it and that you're happy with it. The feeling stems from selfish reasons.
If there's another way to look at it, by all means, I'd love to hear it. But I don't see the point in expecting someone to credit your design other than reasons that have a self-centered base.

[Mermaidmechanic]

I don't really see much of a resemblance in the color pattern other than the fact that they are both based off a trout. One has extra fins, one does not. One has spots, one does not. The orange is at the end of one while the top of the fluke on the other. It looks like maybe he hadnt seen this tail before painting his and if he did, took great pains not to make it too similar. Also, I dont think merbellas trout tail has a dorsal fin. Im not defending anyone here, just pointing out my observations.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/376614_415539855168767_855955031_n.jpg

http://www.themertailor.com/images/mertailor/gallery/21_Green_1.jpg

[Kanti]

Haha I actually thought it did look a but like a trout too.
But it's more apparent in the Mertailor's tail rather than the Merbella tail, imo.

Actually, now that I think about it, didn't Mike Van Daal basically COMPLETELY steal the fluke design from the 12th year tail?? He does OWN it doesn't he? And he literally just ploped some resin on top of it and copied it completely?? THAT is actually copying something, it's a shameless ripoff where Mike did zero work in even reproducing it. So wait.. Why in the world does everyone overlook that so freaking easily!? : /

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/775711_480416071995188_381340491_o.jpg

[MerMarla]

Wouldn't we be crediting whoever invented mermaid tails as a costume instead of whoever designed the specific aspect you used?

Here ya go... credit Newt Perry, developer of Weeki Wachee Springs (WWS) in 1947. He taught all the young women, to do acrobatic swimming, invented the air hose we use, and designed their costumes. I believe, unless someone can correct me, Newt designed and had made the first mermaid tails used underwater. This picture was taken to promote the 1948 release of the movie "Mr. Peabody and the Mermaids". The following photo from the WWS archives, has Ann Tribble in a tail, used in the movie (she was Ann Blythe's stunt double).

So now... all mermaids, tail makers, costume designers working to promote tails MUST credit Newt Perry. OK? Hahaha, although this is true, there may have been underwater tails used elsewhere, even static (on land worn tails), but I don't know where such documentation exists. I personally know Newt's daughter, she still teaches swimming in FL. I'd have to ask her if she knows more of the history of Newt's tails!

Respectfully submitted,
Mermaid Marla,
WWS
10460

Oh and as far as "copying" other colors and flukes, fins and shell/bra tops, full bathing suit, and stretch fabric, sequin tails.... there are so many combinations, and eventually they will overlap. Nature provides lots of color schemes, fin shapes... I would take it as a compliment that a color scheme worked well, or a fluke worked well. It's not a ripoff. Unless you want to pay royalties to Newt Perry's estate. He had all of these in his first designs, including embellishments.

Food for thought!

[Elle]

Haha I actually thought it did look a but like a trout too.
But it's more apparent in the Mertailor's tail rather than the Merbella tail, imo.

Actually, now that I think about it, didn't Mike Van Daal basically COMPLETELY steal the fluke design from the 12th year tail?? He does OWN it doesn't he? And he literally just ploped some resin on top of it and copied it completely?? THAT is actually copying something, it's a shameless ripoff where Mike did zero work in even reproducing it. So wait.. Why in the world does everyone overlook that so freaking easily!? : /


Indeed it is a copy, he's been doing them for a little while now.....I think he bought the original tail worn by the mermaid mum/mom in that movie.... I don't know if he bought the rights to it or not, but I'm fairly sure he bought that particular tail.

as for the whole Raven/Eric Colour Scheme, it's a bit of a back and forth kinda of thing. it's like recently Raven produced a tail that is in that gold/aqua scheme that Eric uses as his "signature" colours....
You're gonna get customers who request a colour scheme of another tail maker all the time, cross overs are gonna happen.
Even if they are pinching each others ideas, I think they're both adult enough to work it out between themselves

[Kanti]

Indeed it is a copy, he's been doing them for a little while now.....I think he bought the original tail worn by the mermaid mum/mom in that movie.... I don't know if he bought the rights to it or not, but I'm fairly sure he bought that particular tail.

as for the whole Raven/Eric Colour Scheme, it's a bit of a back and forth kinda of thing. it's like recently Raven produced a tail that is in that gold/aqua scheme that Eric uses as his "signature" colours....
You're gonna get customers who request a colour scheme of another tail maker all the time, cross overs are gonna happen.
Even if they are pinching each others ideas, I think they're both adult enough to work it out between themselves

I could honestly care less about the colorscheme or fluke copying as long as you freaking do the work yourself, which he does. Also colorschemes just seem so very unpersonal compared to something like fluke shape, so when people even mention that two tails are colored the same I almost don't even notice half the time. And yea, people should be allowed to mix colors up from a different tailmaker without being told "whooops sorry original colorschemes only".

I will say that the time the Mertailor took Lorelei's design I was upset, but I guess I felt that way more because Lorelei isn't a tailmaker who's designing a bunch of fins all day, she created that for her own personal tail. But even then I still think differently now in that, who cares? The Mertailor sculpted it himself at least.. Mike just sort of completely ripped it off with doing zero work whatsoever..
So yea, how about that in the spotlight and give Mike some criticism? I doubt it, no one would dare speak anything bad about tailmakers they actually like, no matter what sort of scummy activity they take part in -___-

[Odette]

I fear the day when i show more mermaids my tail designs. lol

[NerineArcticMermaid]

Mike did sculpt the 13th year tail fluke. Yes its a copy. He even says it is. (Its the tail the boy wore not the mom)

This art theft..not copying.. is a very sore and touchy subject to me. I am a professional Artist. I take it very seriously when someone copies my work or other artist work. Copying is stealing no matter the intention. I spend roughly 40+ hrs to create a 16x20 arcylic painting. If someone copied my work.. something That came out of my brain.. its theft. Intellectual theft is just as serious as stealing hundreds of dollars.

I work hard to create my originals. Its more than just painting. Its concept.. thumbnails... design. sketching.. resketching... then you get to actually paint it.

I have a self portrait that was inspired by my fav artist. I contacted her personally. ASked if I could use her image for my work. The differance is that my peice is NOT for sale and never will be and The original artist gave permission and has seen the piece and approved the posting of it publicly.

Even when I use a photograph as insipration... I get permission. From the photographer and model BOTH! I always send the finished product image to them so they have it on file and are aware of it.

COPYING is THEFT!

Get permission or just dont do it!


*Granted on mermaid tails its a fine line but when you can blatently see it was a copy.. thats just wrong. Yes color schemes can be repeated.. only so many combos availible. But fluke designs... I dont think so. Were I a tail maker... and I came up with a fluke and then realized opps.. this looks like so-and-so's.. I would contact them before I had it availible publically. Then theres no ill intentions or confusion. Drama over this is getting ridiculous. *


I usually stay out of drama but art theft is a major issue to me.

....end rant/vent/input.

[Kanti]

The only person who ever really TRUELY copied was Mike. He took the original and make a copy of it. He definitely did NOT resculpt it himself unless he's some sort of human copy machine lmao.
The Mertailor copied the design but he made the fluke himself, so he actually did some work to reproduce it rather than just running it through a scanner like Mike did.

And it actually is the one the MOTHER wore not the boy xD
He says so himself
<strong>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XELnGJy0zFU

[Blondie]

And I think it needs to be said that, I find it less irritating when someone "copies" or "inspires" a tail for their own uses. That they only wear. It's not right but, at least they aren't selling it and making money off of it. You know?

[NerineArcticMermaid]

This is why I do not get involved.

Kanti.. I like you but.. if im going to continue to like you as a person.. I am going to bow out. Your rants... they rub me wrong and Im just not willing to let myself be sucked into an argument that.. One.. I know Ill win. and Two is not worth getting pissed off further about.

Im going to just say. I disagree.

[Kanti]

@Blondie - I guess but honestly at least Eric is capable of producing the work himself. Mike just carbon copied it. So in that sense everyone should technically be more upset at Mike? Especially since he charged much more than Eric for something he didn't even produce himself.


@Nerine - Hmm that's sort of immature, imo but okay...?
If you can't talk to someone or explain your point of view then maybe you're the one who's wrong? To say that you're going to win is a bit narcissistic as well.. Since when was this about winning or losing? You did nothing but state an opinion, frankly. You dislike copying and consider it art theft. This isn't some highschool ball game to earn bragging rights, it's a discussion, if you're coming in thinking you're going to win or lose/ be right or wrong then you shouldn't be here.

If they rub you the wrong way because I think differently, then I guess that's fine because I will always think my way regardless of who it conforms to, but at least I give you the decency to explain myself and am open to all sorts of interpretations. If I rub you the wrong way because you think I'm wrong, well I welcome you to challenge that and explain why you think so, but honestly you didn't do much besides say you think it's wrong. You didn't exactly argue a point.

But if you want to leave that's fine, it seems you are taking this a bit personally and that's always a bad thing when it comes to discussions.

[Ayla of Duluth]

I think people don't freak out about mike because his tails sell for like 5k, and only really well known "famous" mers get his tails. So he may be copying a design, but it's not like anyone can buy the tails he makes, and you know that the more famous mers are gonna get whatever tail they want.

[Ayla of Duluth]

Also I don't think he's as big a part of the community as the mertailor. I don't think I remember him ever coming in here or having any of his friends come in here. He seems like the kind of guy who just keeps to himself and sells his tails to a select few people.

[Kanti]

That;s true, Ayla.
But he actually did come on here once just to be a big fat mean and complain about my tutorial >8( lol
But I mean, the Mertailor isn't really part of this community anymore. I guess he used to be when he'd read things we said more often but now he seems a lot more distant.

But in the end, Im actually glad Mike copied the 13th year though. It's nice that other people can have that design since the guy who made the original is probably never making tails again xD

[NerineArcticMermaid]

Actually. The fact I choose not to argue or explain shows maturity. Because if I did.. I would sink to a level I do not wish to sink to.

In point of fact. Copying someone else's intellectual property is in fact THEFT. In case you hadnt seen the recent legistation regarding that. Might want to check your facts next time. As a member of the Artist Coalition, I am well aware of art theft and help to report it.

As for your rants rubbing me wrong.. Well. Its the sheer arrogance you seem to ooze when you have your little rants. Perhaps its jsut the internet and context and meaning are garbled. But you come off as arrogant and rude much of the time. Hence why I chose to leave it alone. But you insisted I explain myself.

Ive been a member here since it was mer.yuku. Yet I rarely post. You know why? Becasue it is not worth my time or the stress to reply to every single post that may irk me. I choose to be the mature one and leave it alone.

But I am sick to death of seeing text walls from you ranting about things that really should just be left alone. I see more instances of you personally attacking other members that the members you accuse doing the attacking. Frankly I think you are very hipocritical.

You complain about the drama. But yet all I see is you instigateing it majority of the time.


As I said before. You asked for it. This is precisly why I usually leave this alone. Yes I read the drama thread and this one. How many times have I ever created Drama.. NONE. Maturity is more than age. Its knowing when and where to step in and when to leave it the hell alone.

Best rule of thumb. If your not personally involved... Dont butt in.

[lasserine]

I hardly ever post, since there isnt a point.

Cant we all just get along?

[Kanti]

I thought you just said you didn't want to get involved and that you were leaving?
Now you're here to continue and even moreso to completely switch the spotlight and call me arrogant? That doesn't sound like even discussing the topic at hand, it sounds like ad hominem.. Also this is the drama forum *takes shot* where we are free to discuss dramatic things, so it wouldn't be surprising if I am being dramatic in this forum.

As for the intellectual property, it depends where you're viewing that. In America people may agree with you, but in other places like the UK, things are different. Plus, just because legislation says something doesn't mean it's right. Legislation currently isn't allowing gays to marry. Does that make them right? Not in the least.

But now I'm actually interested o_o
When have I ever instigated drama? You seem to claim I do it "the majority of the time" so I mean, if that's true please provide some evidence? I've posted over 1,000 things which actually consist of a lot of things other than dramatic things, but I do know that I like to argue every now and then, but I hardly find that dramatic unless you take an argument personally.

I'm sorry that you find me so unpleasant and arrogant, but you have to understand that this is the internet and that sometimes written words can give off a feeling that may not even be there. I really am not trying to be arrogant at all and if you thought that way maybe you should have asked me what I mean or what my tone was and I could've clarified it. To assume I'm being arrogant isn't exactly fair. But I do find it very strange that you say all this so suddenly when literally about 15 minutes ago said that you liked me.

And again, this is the drama forum and we are discussing a controversial topic, you basically came in with the giant WARNING DRAMA and expected to not see drama? And even so honestly I don't even think it's drama, it's just my opinion? I'm not picking on anyone.
But if you are sick of seeing text walls then you are completely free to block me.

This is all very sudden, not sure where exactly all this is coming from, but if you had a long-term problem with me you should have brought it to my attention earlier so maybe we could have worked on it?
I'm always down to PM if you'd like to discuss other things in private, but I guess this is the drama thread after all so you're free to say what you want. But if not you should just block me if I really irritate you that much *shrug*

[Kanti]

I hardly ever post, since there isnt a point.

Cant we all just get along?

*takes a shot*

This is the drama thread, let her say what she wants that's what it's for!

[NerineArcticMermaid]

Actually this is NOT the drama thread. This is the Soapbubble Opera. There is no "warning drama ahead" label

I never said i was leaving. you said that. I simple said... I was chosing to not get involved. But You asked for me to explain myself. So I did.

Honestly did you even rad my post completly? or just skim?

I did in fact state that perhaps it was text losing context and meaning because its the internet. WHich means for you that maybe you should think about how exactly you come off in text. Perhaps maybe you should reword the way you type something to make sure that it doesnt read wrong. But no I guess you didnt read that. You only seem to read what you want to read.

As far as Intellecual property. We ARE discussing people who live in the USA. THerefore the legislation that ARTISTS have fought for is valid. if you think its unfair.. maybe you should have some of your hard work stolen and reused as someone elses. All that time and effort gone so someone else can be given ownership of YOUR idea.

Theres nothing to discuss. Just becasue you post alot. Doesnt actually mena you say anything worth me reading. What i have seen is constant walls of text latly.. bashing other mers.. getting involved in things that are not for you to personally even be involved in.

This is why I was attempting to leave it alone. Just remember... You asked for an explanation.

[Ayla of Duluth]

Hi Nerine :) I missed you :3

[MermaidBrittany]

Gahh! The thread is labeled for a reason! If anyone wished to avoid drama PLEASE AVOID THIS THREAD.
And maturity isn't necessarily burying something, its expressing what you're feeling so it doesn't build up and eventually blow up. Expressing anyone's opinion is fine! That the whole point of the forum! Working issues out is definitely the mature thing to do. :)

[Ayla of Duluth]

Also kanti, yeah you're in the wrong thread.

[NerineArcticMermaid]

miss you too ayla!

Wherethaheck ya been?

[Ayla of Duluth]

I've been lurking the forums a lot lately. I haven't been posting a lot because honestly most of the stuff on the forums now is just shallow chit chat instead of idea sparking discussions. No ones been posting on the tinychat tread so I figured that died. :/

[NerineArcticMermaid]

no tiny chat is still alive...

adella and i are on it alot.. we jsut text each other when we get online. PM me. Ill give ya my cell and you can text me when you hop online too.. Illbe on tomorrow after iget home from class. and most likly friday. Gonna do a live "building my mer top" session on tinychat.

[Kanti]

xD
The title of this thread has the word Drama in it clearly, no? I'm pretty sure it applies as a drama thread. Sorry, NOT BEING ARROGANT just sort of find that funny that you're actually trying to say this thread isn't for drama, come on that's just nitpicking.
It is the Soapbubble Opera / DRAMA BUBBLE and in the opening it clearly opens with: It has become apparent that sometimes people just need a place to vent drama"
So I'm sorry please don't nitpick to such a degree just to be right! This is exactly what I am talking about. It seems to be about being right rather than just talking/discussing.

And yes I did read your post! I thought I responded quite accordingly? But to avoid confusion I can quote you if you'd like



I never said i was leaving. you said that. I simple said... I was chosing to not get involved. But You asked for me to explain myself. So I did.
Actually I didn't ask if you read my post I said you probably should leave because it seems you were getting emotional!
I said it was a but immature to not explain your reasoning and to just assume you'd "win" never did I say anything along the lines of "you should explain yourself to me" I honestly didn't want to force you into anything, so that is a false statement. Please don't put words in my mouth, it's not nice.


I did in fact state that perhaps it was text losing context and meaning because its the internet. WHich means for you that maybe you should think about how exactly you come off in text. Perhaps maybe you should reword the way you type something to make sure that it doesnt read wrong. But no I guess you didnt read that. You only seem to read what you want to read.
I did read it! I simply expanded on it a bit, sorry if you felt I didn't read your post, I understand it did seem that way so that was my fault and I apologize, but yes I agree, a lot is lost through text, but that still doesn't dismiss the other stuff I said such as that if you THINK I am being arrogant or rude you should ask me to clarify. To simply assume I am being arrogant is not good, especially since I was never trying to be!


As far as Intellecual property. We ARE discussing people who live in the USA. THerefore the legislation that ARTISTS have fought for is valid. if you think its unfair.. maybe you should have some of your hard work stolen and reused as someone elses. All that time and effort gone so someone else can be given ownership of YOUR idea.
Well that was never clarified, but even if we were talking about in the US then my point still stands! Do you agree with everything US legislation says? You didn't exactly respond to what I said about that, conveniently. So I assume that because the US says gays shouldn't marry you agree that that is correct? The US legislation is run by people who have opinions just like you and me, they don't always do what is right.
As for me having my property stolen it has happened! I don't care in the least really. I actually made a dragon cosplay once and someone copied my idea and made one themselves. You know what I did? I was happy for them! Because I think it's cool that I inspired someone to do something and I know people are going to copy no matter what. I just don't really care much to get worked up about it. I explained that in my "giant wall of text".
But anyway, I'm interested in your opinion on gay marriage now, please address that.


Theres nothing to discuss. Just becasue you post alot. Doesnt actually mena you say anything worth me reading. What i have seen is constant walls of text latly.. bashing other mers.. getting involved in things that are not for you to personally even be involved in.
If I instigate all the time it should be super easy for you to find an instance! Wait now I am BASHING OTHER MERS? What in the world?
To make such accusations you need to provide proof or else I'm allowed to make accusations like "you eat babies! I don't need to tell you or show you you just do it! There's nothing to discuss"
I'm giving you a chance to prove me wrong, by all means go for it. If I did I'd be very happy to apologize for it, but the way you're responding I'm now allowed to assume that you're making that up.

[Mer_Adella]

Doesn't anyone remember their mother's saying this:

"If you don't have anything nice to say, its better to say nothing at all". Yes this is true, BUT that IS taking the mature road home. Just because you are expressing yourself and letting everyone know your opinion and not keeping it bottled up...doesn't meant that your being mature about it. I don't post a lot anymore because ...its not worth it. Just like Nerine said. Its not worth the headache, the constant screaming at your computer because you think the other people can hear you. But I will say this. Being mature doesn't mean that you have to express yourself to every tom, dick and harry that will listen to you prove your point. It means that you can clearly decide whether it it smart to say something or smarter to just go "nah, not worth it" and walk away.

this is a horrible example ( and i know that I am going to get someone that will harp on it but that is no mind to me as I won't be replying to the comments)

a 3-4 year old child is the best example. Most are greedy, whiny, stubborn little chits ever. ( I worked in a daycare for 4 yrs). When they believe that they are in the right they will fight with you tooth and nail to prove you wrong and them right. Sometimes they will speak calmly and clearly but they won't listen to your reasoning and will just keep pushing their side of things. THIS IS NOT MATURITY.
Fast forward 15-20 yrs. Same person is still doing this but in their mind, they are mature because they can have sex, have a period if they are female, etc etc. Their body is mature so their mind would be too as well...right? HA! I still see women who are 35-40+ that still act like they have the maturity of a teen in high school ( and this is outside of my mermaid world, so not calling people out on here). Maturity is something that you have to learn, realize, grow, etc. Walking away is almost always the mature thing to do. Not to have someone explain things to you. When someone states that they spoke their piece and that they are walking away. Don't call them out onto the carpet and make statements about how they need to explain themselves.

"This is why I do not get involved.

Kanti.. I like you but.. if im going to continue to like you as a person.. I am going to bow out. Your rants... they rub me wrong and Im just not willing to let myself be sucked into an argument that.. One.. I know Ill win. and Two is not worth getting pissed off further about.

Im going to just say. I disagree."

She explains that she likes you, and that she is going to "bow out" meaning leave it alone for now because she wants to continue liking you. But then you have to call that immature? Really? I'm sorry, I am not offending you, or defending Nerine...but THAT is what I call immaturity. She plainly states that she likes you and that she doesn't want to stop liking you so she is just going to walk away. but then your standing there going "really, why?" and calling her back. I could say more if you want I can give an explaination to you. I have the perfect analogy in my head. I just would rather walk away right now than offend someone and get banned. Thats the mature thing. So here I go walking away for now..and I will return tomorrow to see what everyone has come up with for accessories and other things. Good night

[Mer_Adella]

I've been lurking the forums a lot lately. I haven't been posting a lot because honestly most of the stuff on the forums now is just shallow chit chat instead of idea sparking discussions. No ones been posting on the tinychat tread so I figured that died. :/

on it right now

[Kanti]

She explains that she likes you, and that she is going to "bow out" meaning leave it alone for now because she wants to continue liking you. But then you have to call that immature? Really? I'm sorry, I am not offending you, or defending Nerine...but THAT is what I call immaturity. She plainly states that she likes you and that she doesn't want to stop liking you so she is just going to walk away. but then your standing there going "really, why?" and calling her back. I could say more if you want I can give an explaination to you. I have the perfect analogy in my head. I just would rather walk away right now than offend someone and get banned. Thats the mature thing. So here I go walking away for now..and I will return tomorrow to see what everyone has come up with for accessories and other things. Good night

That's understandable, I can see as that would make someone upset, but I wasn't instigating, but rather, telling her what I thought about it.
I am a bit blunt, and some people don't like blunt-ness or respond well to it, so I suppose I was a bit harsh to have said that, but I don;t think it makes the statement any less mature.
I didn't really call her back, or at least I don't think, but again, it's understandable to read over text and see it that way.
I simply told her what I thought of the behavior in the same way I would tell my friend if I thought they were being immature, rude, or anything of that nature. I wasn't making faces at her or being immature, I simply evaluated the decision she made and found it was immature, just as when someone tells me I am being dramatic, I don't take offense, I say "really? how so?"
If they provide an answer that makes sense, I'll either agree or disagree.

I guess I can admit I was a bit surprised at how someone was being so immature as to do those things so perhaps I came on too strong in my response, but I still don't think what I actually said was false at all.
Considering an argument a "win or lose" situation is very childish.

Hey also I noticed you said I called her immature for "bowing out" and that's another false statement.. I called her immature for saying something so arrogant as to say "she doesn't have to argue because she'd win". I honestly couldn't care less what she had to say about the matter any further after that point because I predicted that she wouldn't have much logic going after saying something that and I guess at this point I was right.. That comment showed me that she was completely focused on only winning and not learning so that's why I criticized her as to say "wow to think of that as a win/lose situation is immature" then I told her that maybe if she can't talk to people about her beliefs without "blowing up" then she is probably too emotional to argue properly. I literally dismissed her to leave at the final comment, which you and Ayla conveniently ignored, and you are re-wording what I said to try and twist things when I didn't say that. Maybe you just misread it, so read it again.

[NerineArcticMermaid]

LET ME MAKE THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR. I AM FOR EQUAL RIGHT. sCREW YOU FOR EVEN BRINGING UP MY BELEIF WHEN THAT HAD NOTHIGN TO DO WITH THE ART THEFT CONVERSATION. THAT IS UNCALLED FOR AND PRETTY DAMN RIGHT CRAP OF YOU.

[NerineArcticMermaid]

The art theft legistation was created BY artists! So yes I think it is right.

[Kanti]

: /
Please don't get emotional Nerine, you're not being on topic and now you're just being rude.
I asked you a very logical question and you didn't even answer it..

[Kanti]

It was voted on by LEGISLATION that means US government officials to make it a law.
The SAME WAY they vote on whether or not homosexuals are allowed to marry.

[NerineArcticMermaid]

No you were being out right rude and other words i could use for calling my beliefs into question. Damn right im gonna get emotional. DONT YOU EVER QUESTION MY BELIEFS.

[Ayla of Duluth]

on it right now
OHMYGOD IM COMINGGGGG WAIT FOR MEEEE

[Kanti]

And you have been questioning mine this entire time, yet I get no right to have beliefs?
If you don't want people questioning your beliefs, then exactly what I said before still stands, you need to be able to explain yourself or else why do you even believe those things?

Not to mention YOU are being rude you literally just "yelled" I assume with the caps, said "screw you" and then said it was "crap of me" to basically give you a counter argument.. Did I call you a name Nerine? Immature, right? Because you weren't being immature at all? Look at you now, calling me names because I basically made a point you don't know how to respond to without yelling at me...

I guess it's okay when you do it, but when I do it it's horrible and you're allowed to call me blatant names for no other purpose than to attempt to offend me.

[Mer_Adella]

@Nerine - Hmm that's sort of immature, imo but okay...?
If you can't talk to someone or explain your point of view then maybe you're the one who's wrong? To say that you're going to win is a bit narcissistic as well.. Since when was this about winning or losing? You did nothing but state an opinion, frankly. You dislike copying and consider it art theft. This isn't some highschool ball game to earn bragging rights, it's a discussion, if you're coming in thinking you're going to win or lose/ be right or wrong then you shouldn't be here.

You say that this isn't calling someone back to the carpet?
Telling someone that if they can't talk to someone or explain yourself isn't calling them back? To me that is a basic way of saying "you need to explain yourself" and hence calling them back. This is a perfect example of that. Your bluntness isn't even the question here. I can be blunt too. But I choose when to be and when not to be, and therefore there is never a mention of me being rude, immature, or anything else. (as far as I know).