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View Full Version : Swimtails Violates Copyright Use + Other issues summary (includes screenshots)



AniaR
02-28-2019, 12:54 PM
Warning, this is a long post.

This went down on Facebook so I am sharing it here because with all the drama with this company people should be aware so they can make educated decisions when purchasing from tail makers.

Disclaimer: Several mers have been threatened with cease and desists for sharing these facts. If you have proof of similar dealings please share but with proof.


A few things to note:

In 2015 they were caught ripping off Finfolk by placing FFs photo of tails they've made over their fabric design. The community chalked this up to a misunderstanding, but it's documented here: https://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?10535-quot-swimtails-quot-anyone-heard-of-em&p=184764&viewfull=1#post184764

In 2018 there was a big social media storm when their instagram claimed that the husband cheated on the wife and the company was going under. Shortly after they back tracked that, but cancelled a bunch of people's orders. Many folks in 2019 are still waiting on orders: https://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?17284-Swimtails-Fraud-Paid-for-a-top-and-it-never-came/page2

As of the end of Feb 2019 their account is in delinquency status for failing to file their business paperwork:
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53413505_2302281866716850_7410182242011447296_n.jp g?_nc_cat=108&_nc_eui2=AeGRPUJv4SZ2AISllVP9wB4Us9EEPlkLG6TAx8jGH Cqy3zcMKL5Mz4ysmbg5XiwaNNSlLZkt9zyR-DYFpS2a_UZkltvXVnErpjvfO63bsv3hIg&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=113ba6bd3e6d07743b17b12bf2428565&oe=5D1E1AB1

The Issue: Violating the Copyright of another Artist.

Swimtails had this post up for several days of a new tail they had for sale.


https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52819601_2302265856718451_9122645171043827712_n.jp g?_nc_cat=103&_nc_eui2=AeFXEK3zXRReW_pmCQhKqItPmSvS6ITvKycbW9SZg mvMRZr1ynLE5w07eFTqEIFLmmgZeT3jGnaVGvAiTJ452lAMHN8 UBNe1xGmIav8NJsNJcw&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=28a7f8b3543a4446bba3c6ee67137bcc&oe=5D23E1C9

The problem with this post is that it contained an actual digital overlay file copyrighted by a well known fairy artist. So to be sure everyone understands, the issue at hand is not a tail that looks like someone else's work, but rather a tail physically made using a digital art file that was copyrighted and available for licensing.

The artist in question, contacted swimtails. I am posting their communication with permission as they are not on Mernetwork:

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52993317_10157248384368459_7879632561285103616_n.j pg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_eui2=AeG6uUt25pPihNGs84-xnezM5cNS5D84-lvo1kyT_x_31zdIR4Ez9FZxqnna_Wa-BBnVeT5ytp1_kOQzDqZzIYXw2VYh16lM0wbgw_EBRSJ1vg&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=227222140ec1411ba289403722423fc3&oe=5CE6EF92

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52800526_10157248385033459_244587826182619136_n.jp g?_nc_cat=106&_nc_eui2=AeGlRzqEQlhCSdZHWR0DAUZ4-nZAVg36p9xWsp_vJs9tgjanX5-UaP_cFecDrFyIWJMJxQanZcijzvmOwQF-LnOE8nygCoNQoq3P9SrNZzxYTA&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=8141831dbaaa2af6ec2a38cc203b2ea4&oe=5D1E137B

After a lack of response (2 days), the artist made a statement on their website about how to properly use these types of files, which was then shared around in groups:
http://www.fancyfairy.com/news/2019/2/27/copyright-psa?fbclid=IwAR3Sh_OYfqdjsLmcc9buzDs6h-yaShQwiDka7xqlzPZixHsQtg2Zo0-NrGA (http://www.fancyfairy.com/news/2019/2/27/copyright-psa?fbclid=IwAR3Sh_OYfqdjsLmcc9buzDs6h-yaShQwiDka7xqlzPZixHsQtg2Zo0-NrGA)

It was shared in one group, and the co-owner of swimtails decided to reply with threats of legal action for sharing the link:

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52961844_2302253563386347_5677084447548112896_n.jp g?_nc_cat=100&_nc_eui2=AeE6XJ2BGHAnZZLdFCH9vuTitVcDt4ggmdrOyoASV WV-Km2BodOwG9nkHJ-XZ8kWesre6-nz2FDJh5Pxau80ed3iDPSBb8fIWSunhPVs3dqy7A&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=01c8e2029eedae312827123e897d93ea&oe=5D210A3A

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52877969_2302254803386223_3849844689398136832_n.jp g?_nc_cat=106&_nc_eui2=AeHWhJyesK9NDD-_issUYDbPnYmgCnJcA0w4MxYAyufB9zhRrlh_07RNJkgyqxuCu mMtY-M0_a_K5Hruqt0LEUGaoTS-2A4Cz_4kF1iSmo3dYA&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=3332fa7b3aa3f2a31b2f50d134c522c6&oe=5CDE995E

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53136681_2302256186719418_3576497178085949440_n.jp g?_nc_cat=111&_nc_eui2=AeFyycsLGb3TEyYihYhJKwvsHU1-L09hI88DGV06LFYmxeUuudX36F4g45fs7tATkYrL3fzJn1JUtf r7U2tKtsJcgirbqwfw7uLFSEONShLbNQ&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=be87c2cab331a20cf0a67c4e42c5dbaa&oe=5D1F7EEB

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53067873_2302257203385983_669998341077073920_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=104&_nc_eui2=AeEju1uWy7ym6IcrmAfuAJb9WO_nRymXogn-8P2Qb_xMyeMluMGbW9Iv4cySqZWYleZBewpfuQNQBm96z73BkP lPxsICNuwY4GyQGPsEFpSwHw&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=17fdec998fe6b8f64181ead6a68bf037&oe=5D25FAB2

Swimtails then took to instagram to reply to the artist in question, after failing to do so via email:

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53165100_10157248386003459_4423029180518629376_n.j pg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_eui2=AeEDt39LRQkzOReIfODXPxCpcX_RQZipr6GfMFlbS 1eIV5UAZlrxMLHxNuWfFX6tfdbzEk2tdG_4sol-0zX1Twp0hcLit9BKgigMhwxRzZq6Pg&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=56a1b67d8cb8c00f56e8132188672a52&oe=5CE55808

Then they replied to the emails:

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52810357_10157248386913459_3021377985132363776_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_eui2=AeECRHR_61xmSaL00T4z9nDkUiejcjH2XHjxnGU_-At8EcHJqEEdNuz7H1Bp7Kbs3rpXxwWbm7jUbHYEvtcH6jXIL0Q rMk3bqlrjVOuImZw_-Q&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=1678a7bd8ba63e151a9b979854fca038&oe=5D1BA196

Then back to instagram:


https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53688842_10157248387428459_4255381900987727872_n.j pg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_eui2=AeGWGsIvwxlB5dfGztEyPhlaeMS6e87NidYDXqNGd tsrC0qG1pzNAgffiscgDnKDGR8cOoBXjaJ9YOT2P72TIosXCMG uyb20y23GpEhnBGO-Ug&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=348c5fe34118b3339377cd0fa4d68c05&oe=5D1B59E8

Then back to email:


https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53308962_10157248388493459_4809425840288825344_n.j pg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_eui2=AeGoI1v4YqL8ge7sXrPsji5CMHyJuXjOTABkxuPvf _tvppywR2cvumMHDeDKZPXJaby48rngRXVxOPtMJgjBlzMyhKk 3NOTR80lxvuy-OQ21Xg&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=517d07e3f4a1d5e01b96e8a7a9ee6d15&oe=5D1CBC7E

At this point swimtails decides they will not cooperate with the artist and would rather set their own terms AFTER STEALING HER WORK.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53729301_10157248388828459_8427737681802297344_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_eui2=AeEmju_RfkjT1dggWCxzZFzHauZlq_DWUPNT0tdnz 1PrDQvfCuQFsn1VVtnl0esSYjkFQSbTnp0leCOfJ-yAWQltlNgRAEYZjHlklTMgUkqjSg&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=430ae435e1d8e840858164783a4e26f5&oe=5D167047

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53345293_10157248389968459_3032391363611066368_n.j pg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_eui2=AeHEXfzbH-iY045qdC6eh-992Pta04yQTZhp5-FzZH8HNIaFsmj1p7I2x3obKvqEiYIz9c2QSSnZoL0Ur0dzRvtL m5Ly5jOtI9tsNCm6hq7QRg&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=4bf994499aa0995cc0003c8fbe4ddec9&oe=5D1C61D9

Then Ryan stepped in, all of a sudden this is a huge money making opportunity for the artist despite the fact that swimtails has no money to pay her fee or money to refund customers...

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53243764_10157248390443459_6908095127680450560_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_eui2=AeGTg5GjUtJ_jheXptRAbNAC1KI30nG7CR6Po3NPm 5JsCL8bVtYmF0g6t2bui_NMo4aGVv2hlPiU0Mi9LLxwaySwWs5 U0dhpdLDkj0PK9NkXZA&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=637f38e2d25ccb91cd9618ecf1a335ac&oe=5CE0EBED


So if all of this is a little over your head, here's a summary:



They violated her copyright by using the file without clearing the use or paying the appropriate fee
They refused to pay the fee
They tried to impose on HER for the use
They've threatened multiple mers with an attorney for mischaracterization (https://www.google.com/search?safe=strict&client=firefox-b-d&q=mischaracterization&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiGv4yu_97gAhVkkeAKHSc5C6oQkeECCCsoAA)

They've got a bad history in the industry at this point


Nerdmaid Faith did an excellent recap of issues prior to this if you want an easier way to view:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHeQf_nejF0


EDIT TO ADD MORE INSTAGRAM/SCREENSHOTS:

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53160284_10157248268838459_8808888112034873344_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&_nc_eui2=AeEw0uZIS7DpoEOT5LCmd1LEZ4sw9pml4nsOk0gde iqoBwVetJNbe4Fjo3Rh1XC6-jYZl6QhI9qMkUJLA6KDROHW0_HiSNyn97y40HahFg0i8g&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=437ce9bb2d26d7fbe308313307650c25&oe=5CE70E8A

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52938794_10157248268953459_2664707051715821568_n.j pg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_eui2=AeEeoziT34jx-leaCExPundXU3fJcEWrji6-3cXqLmAV9U0d0lNaEDnH8T8kw9kuwzBXxQpNiD3hLo1knc4Udc FxJTgsnSv-BumjjtJYmUtJpQ&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=039289dcc69b306e94365bc305727b9d&oe=5D18E462

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52800497_10157248268998459_3995511331330457600_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_eui2=AeGtSolcoN6E_SUwHxdyMvh0wjz4uH7dTOivGnmP0 25xWy91dTjLFza2aOipPAKJ9UI1xo6plZqdQshDpJALfNQhR_D DX2_AfSJxBxQBJolubA&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=a16b15e7accbdc53f7149ff5634bf96e&oe=5D1720D9

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53046723_10157248269033459_8769504262657933312_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_eui2=AeGGMo8txXeUmNxRgaZqxo8vfwlNHi1GqIvJVBq_J 4L7VsIUQ0e0Nh6keapTe7lqskF5ptGoyg2cn4U6lSYEgWreyc-m0c632ncf0axfFzl03A&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=369d0c59f947dfe5e0e153705e10ea52&oe=5D1A2E65

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52819960_10157248269138459_4417998090187833344_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_eui2=AeE-vG7dNjM1muXYFAZQCdK6yfoJt77Yb1cdXBglkqBWffKeYfk777 MNLhv2hw-pfdpsaMIoAvmMzkb0WhIaFaCQg7idI6K9Ae_ULzEBJyov8g&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=438e277846d3a327a008238a3bebe348&oe=5D23611E

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53167529_10157248269173459_7155220789908733952_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_eui2=AeFwzDaG_sGM_e7c0kFvw1rWDB4hfdSRfUVwaThJF y6FAh4Fqq6ZNk7AZhCfJ8nulxUlo09gG5e094GHa_SwXcQCnzn PZRqENrYB3Nu7VXcrFg&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=f576828faf687ed78737c24da9f47c1e&oe=5D157542

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/53194168_10157248268898459_9070469315626532864_n.j pg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_eui2=AeGuAUEIEoR7Wlu3DXlF65l-tHZ91kRj98e2Pac3xU_9tT-x2X2-28wn_NGt-kJmW1jA2l1imxdRoAiUmf_hoC6AkQFHpADt9nESpdg0a5S8gA&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=da650c743f5bda19d64925e838af76c0&oe=5CEBECD8

Trade Winds
02-28-2019, 02:02 PM
Not surprised at all

FancyFairyAngela
02-28-2019, 02:20 PM
Yep, I think that's everything.
(BTW I'm a forum member now, fixed the membership join issue so, HI!)

I am allowing my conversations with Swimtails to be posted online because:
1. I and others have been accused of misrepresenting or mischaracterizing, or spreading false information about the company and I want the facts presented clearly
2. I am passionate about educating the public about the myths and facts about IP law and don't want anyone else to get the idea my stock can be used in this way after seeing it used on the Swimtails
3. I feel it's in the public interest to share my own experience with Swimtails and their unlicensed use since the company has already seriously broken the trust of many of their customers by failing to fulfill orders or refunds and even removing Paypal to make it harder for them to file claims, and people should know about the potential to experience issues with them

Swimtails had issues about 'the whole story' not being communicated was stating things had been mischaracterized or what have you, so these are all the receipts of our entire communications about my IP claim AFAIK.
Screen shots don't lie. If I'm accused of spreading false information or misrepresenting something, well that should be cleared up now and everyone can make up their own mind about me or Swimtails based on seeing what actually happened.

I tend to get my hackles up when my reasonable, and fairly standard terms are met with resistance and refusal to pay the penalty for unlicensed use, especially when it's such a low amount compared to what statutory damages could get you - they start at around $700 and go up to $150,000, and statutory damages don't depend on sales at all. They can be awarded even if no profit was made, and the amount can be determined based on evidence of the infringement being willful.
I REALLY don't like it when someone tries to hard sell me on letting them continue to sell product with my art with an agreement that's on their terms and refusing my request for an initial fee to be paid.
Trust has already been broken with the initial negligence in complying with the terms, so allowing continued sales based on only a promise of future payments when a company already has so many complaints of unfulfilled product with no refunds to their customers for the last 4 months PLUS history of past infringement without even the excuse of purchasing a limited license stock, would be naive of me.

I've learned that the butterfly tails are also based off a stock image, and there's more I could say about that but due to a legal limitation in their email, that can't be shared as a screen shot.
Here's that butterfly: https://www.123rf.com/photo_16866872_butterfly-species-salamis-temora-.html?fromid=M3l1U3doWFJtd0YwdnRHV3NoMjJwUT09

At this point, it's hard not to question whether they purchased the clip art on their other tails via the proper channels and commercial licenses.

I'm happy to clarify anything or answer questions about this, I have nothing at all to hide or be ashamed of here and TBH I'd be insulted by their condescension towards me if it wasn't so comical by now.

I have been down this road long enough to recognize when there's something off, and too often there is a mysterious employee or designer to blame that is never identified.
The aggression in Ryan's response to this leaves the impression that he was personally responsible, and after all it's his name on the receipt.
Seriously, if you are running a business that profits in any way off of licensed art, you HAVE to make damn sure that not only you but the employees working for you understand the terms for every license they are working with. Most clip art, unless it's public domain, is in fact just a license to use the art, it does not grant all rights to all types of use, neither does it give you exclusivity without an agreement or without that being spelled out in the terms of the asset.

Although I didn't have a chance to grab a screen shot of the landing page for the tails with this description, the word 'exclusive' was used to describe the design. That, among other things, makes me wonder if whoever put that tail together knew that they certainly did not have exclusive rights to that design but assumed they could sell them without getting caught at least for a while after some cash was made. No I don't have proof of this, not saying it's fact, but that's the impression I had from the get-go. After all, they copied that Blue Tang Finfolk tail pretty accurately in the past and it's hard to believe that they had no inkling that was wrong to do.

I wasn't even going to offer them licensing at all in the first place, and only did so because I have friends in this community who are familiar with the company and I had been told that they were trying to recover from past troubles. I was trying to be kind by contacting them directly and sending an invoice for a fee under $500. No IP attorney is going to take on a case without us each getting at least a couple grand when hiring on a contingency, which is all most of us can afford to do, and the process is very time intensive.
They seem to want to convince me that deciding not to work with them is a huge loss for my company and that I would have made hundreds of thousands (LOL), however money is not always the most important thing to me and I find it hard to believe I'm missing out on hundreds of thousands when an initial fee of a few hundred won't be paid.
Not everyone works this way, but I won't work with companies that seem to lack integrity especially when it comes to using others' IP, and in my own opinion they seem to be building a pattern of it.

TLDR - Don't fuck with the fairies ;)

Saelyyia
02-28-2019, 04:06 PM
Hi Angela, Saelyyia here. I own a few sets of your wings and have had the pleasure of meeting you at LOJ a few years back. I am very sorry to hear that this has happened, but wanted to thank you for providing this evidence as well as your continued work to educate folks on how to properly respect artists rights and copyright/licensing agreements. You are always very reasonable, and professional in how you go about these things and I feel like that helps folks understand things better.

I do hope this issue gets resolved soon. If only we could see the doors close on this particular company soon. I am very tired of seeing them mistreating their costumers and artists time and time again over the years as I'm sure many in this community (and now the faerie community as well) can say.

Theta
02-28-2019, 04:39 PM
Yes, thank you to both Raina and Angela for coming out with this. IP law is so important in this industry, and we've had issues with it in the past - I'm sorry you had to deal with this, but at the same time I'm grateful to see how the gears go round, so to speak.

Also, welcome to the forums, glad to have you, and sorry it wasn't under better circumstances.

MermaidAphrolila
02-28-2019, 05:27 PM
Wow, that is so sad to hear... I will never purchase anything from them. So sorry to the artist that you have to deal with this. Also, thank you Raina for bringing this to our attention.

AniaR
02-28-2019, 09:23 PM
For some reason Angela is having trouble posting here (she messaged an admin) just an FYI

Ransom
02-28-2019, 09:58 PM
Thanks for bringing this to light, Raina! I'd hoped Swimtails would be able to get things together, but I guess there were deeper issues than any of us thought.

FancyFairyAngela
03-01-2019, 02:05 AM
Testing, testing, will I be able to post my comment this time? LOL

FancyFairyAngela
03-01-2019, 02:34 AM
Okay this is working! I couldn't get comments to post earlier.

I just wanted to thank you all for the support, also that I'm not out to ruin their company or convince people not to buy from them but I do want people to be aware of my own experience with them in case there is reason to be wary.
I genuinely hope that this was a learning experience for everyone and that at least more awareness about IP law and artist rights has been gained.
And I hope that Swimtails does turn things around because I have been in a situation where a business grew too fast and before we knew all the ropes we got stuck having to fix a lot of mistakes.
But from what I can remember we had been pretty transparent about what the problems were and did our best to fix it.
We even had licenses we were really late with because of the 2008-09 market crash and recession affecting every aspect of our business, tanking it, and my father dying of lung cancer at the same time the marriage was coming apart.
It was a mess, we kept making changes to make sure we didn't disappoint customers in the future but finally had to dissolve the company.
We both had to file for bankruptcy after.

I've also been in situations where my business partner was spending company money on cam girls without my knowledge and hey I don't know if that's something that one half of that company and I could relate to but from what I heard of past drama, maybe our past shares similarities?

What isn't cool is the way this incident was handled and the bloated implication that I needed them, all the while straight up refusing my terms as if they weren't warranted and trying to make their offer of no payment up front sound like it was the better deal.
I think that last email from Ryan says it all.
It's late, I'm tired, and tonight is the first time I've seen a news graphic made by a stranger about one of my copyright posts on an Instagram story so it's a bit surreal!
I did not expect quite this much noise over it, often my copyright posts fly by without a lot of static.

I wish the best for Swimtails in the future, and I hope they understand finally why I don't feel comfortable licensing to them as well as why I can't really walk away happy with this.
However I am walking away. Possibly a brisk jog. I know they aren't going to pay the fee so I'm not holding my breath and I consider it done.
This issue sucked up enough of my time, and my time is money, so not having sold any tails with my art is a small comfort but it cost me, and it's clear I won't be reimbursed so some bitterness is to be expected.
Hoping along with the lessons learned they eventually make the majority of their customers happy and run over future designs and licenses with a fine toothed comb.
I think anything more I might be circling back and repeating, and I want to catch the Colbert Show, so, 'night mers! :)

AniaR
03-01-2019, 09:14 AM
TO CLARIFY SOMETHING because I see post on social media where people are misunderstanding...

No one is saying the swimtails pic is stealing from the one Angela posted on her website. No one seems to be reading... lol. The pic on angela's website is an EXAMPLE of how to use the stock lol. We aren't saying wow look at these two similar tails. Swimtails DOWNLOADED THE OVERLAY FILE and violated the copyright/terms of use by including it on their commercial design.

If you download the Nike symbol to use on your product you're selling, it's not a matter of copying. You are literally trying to use a trademarked/copyrighted item lol. Make sense now?

Echidna
03-01-2019, 10:04 AM
thanks for the summary.

I won't be ordering anything from this company, and I will advise all mers I know against it.
Swimtails is all over Germany atm, and I don't want anymer here to have to deal with such stuff and be disappointed or lose money.

AniaR
03-01-2019, 07:28 PM
So swimtails made a big public apology on instagram which is nice and all and I'll defer to Angela on that

The concern I have is that it didn't come until the community got upset, and no matter how much Angela tried to explain this to them they kept doubling down with Ryan making constant baseless threats to her, me, and anyone else who called it out.

Everyone can understand a mistake, when you admit to it, and then work to make it right. But doubling down, refusing to pay, hurling insults, making threats... like really? it also seems like once again the wife is stuck apologizing for the husband's shitty behaviour

That's my two cents, take what you will. But yes on their instagram now is a public apology.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52902821_10157251998993459_3554022941370875904_n.j pg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_eui2=AeFrg1sQ65V6CORWM7M_biqnpv0tdcAIuRIflB9Vs 1Oc-RmrIzyx9-ZE9pEdQHyUuZO_0kYJu9EatCti8WEcPJrC2BXz1qJpEL8chAPi RC-oQw&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=1bb74bb0a8d8cebc5180838fa0873980&oe=5D226A0A

Slim
03-01-2019, 10:46 PM
So swimtails made a big public apology on instagram which is nice and all and I'll defer to Angela on that

The concern I have is that it didn't come until the community got upset, and no matter how much Angela tried to explain this to them they kept doubling down with Ryan making constant baseless threats to her, me, and anyone else who called it out.

Everyone can understand a mistake, when you admit to it, and then work to make it right. But doubling down, refusing to pay, hurling insults, making threats... like really? it also seems like once again the wife is stuck apologizing for the husband's shitty behaviour

That's my two cents, take what you will. But yes on their instagram now is a public apology.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52902821_10157251998993459_3554022941370875904_n.j pg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_eui2=AeFrg1sQ65V6CORWM7M_biqnpv0tdcAIuRIflB9Vs 1Oc-RmrIzyx9-ZE9pEdQHyUuZO_0kYJu9EatCti8WEcPJrC2BXz1qJpEL8chAPi RC-oQw&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=1bb74bb0a8d8cebc5180838fa0873980&oe=5D226A0A

While it's nice there was some apologize, I wouldn't count it as a full apologize if I was in her shoes. I congrats Kristie for willing to stand up. But the fact remains that Kristie made the apology while Ryan that threaten and insulted Angela stay silence based on what I see in the screenshots. An apology from Ryan of him admitting his faults may help change of our mind on how we view Swimtails if they are truly looking for a good way to start repairing their image. Amazing talent Swimtail has but there is so much wasted potential currently.

MermaidBrandie
03-02-2019, 11:12 AM
I'm glad you and Angela posted all this. I own a Swimtails Betta tail and have had nothing but good experiences with them personally but those screenshots make me very hesitant to recommend them...

Sent from my H8266 using Tapatalk

Nightingale
03-02-2019, 07:52 PM
Just throwing in my two cents on Swimtails here but, my money has still not been refunded from my order back in September of 2018.
My order of a Siren tail and Mahina never shipped and now I'm still fighting to get my money back.
This copyrighted art mess just further solidifies that I won't be ordering from this company again.

AniaR
03-02-2019, 08:15 PM
They deleted their post and STILL continue to make condescending "apologies" to Angela. Blaming her for the screen shots going public- which was only done after Ryan continuously accused of lying publicly and threatening people. So they were posted to prove.

SirenGita
03-03-2019, 12:22 PM
Not surprised they have been insanely unprofessional and rather Ponzi if they are claiming to make new sales for old refunds.

Hence why i filed and posted the AG colorado info :(

Anyone expecting this company to change is definitely mistaken at this point. People like this send off red flags to those of us in the know FOR A REASON.

Any person going off on rants like these as a business EVER for ANY reason is a serious dumpster fire

Aquatarian
03-03-2019, 03:20 PM
The level of unprofessionalism is abysmal. I'm all for businesses making a comeback, especially if its from being overwhelmed by popularity in the product but this? Just disgraceful.

Not only do I feel extremely uncomfortable giving money to a business with people that conduct themselves like this but I don't want my purchase to be a gamble. I should be able to pay for a product and receive one. Period. The fact that it's a gamble on whether I'm going to get a product is ridiculous.

It's a real shame, I was rooting for these guys. I really wish they conducted themselves better and just owned up to their mistakes and paid the penalty. They made the mistake and it's the least they can do. But I guess they can't even do that. That's not even to get into the public level of unprofessionalism.

Unfortunately looks like I won't be swimming in a swimtails product unless I purchase one secondhand. Not going to entertain the idea that this kind of behavior is acceptable.

SirenGita
03-03-2019, 08:04 PM
If anyone is curious as to why some people recognize these red flags, lots of communities have extensive bois. I'm familiar with the one reptile breeders have on a fantastic forum that has a well known "boi" aka board of inquiry section.

Every person that is blacklisted acts JUST like this. I could swap out 100s of names and have the crazy be IDENTICAL.

Check it out on fauna classifieds if you ever want to see some serious crazy.

Everything from the cajoling to the accusations when other people find out, the paranoid responses to shared info that has been violated when they have not been named (boy guilty conscious much???), to the promises and "opportunities" and switching between cajoling and extreme aggression and juvenile calling. I've also seen many create fake accounts to promote themselves and talk crap about their victims.

They seriously WORK HARDER fighting to do things wrong and lie than it would be to just be professional! Plus they lose an f ton of money!!! Smh

Sheesh.

Eta: these are also dating red flags for abusive partners. Its no coincidence these folks usually have accusations of infidelity in their personal life.

FancyFairyAngela
03-04-2019, 02:20 AM
I did get another private apology from Kristie in an email, telling me they are sending a check.
Not sure why an invoice that is meant to be paid via card needs to be paid by check but if it actually gets sent and clears that would be nice.
I do appreciate both apologies, though I still wish there weren't a shift of blame that somehow puts this all on me for how much people were talking about it.
I need to iron some details out first but it at least appears that an attempt is being made to resolve things more fully.

AniaR
03-04-2019, 10:49 AM
The apologies Angela got still try to shift the blame on her. To make her responsible for the theft and the fallout. Blows my mind. And yes I 100% think Ryan has some issues.

SirenGita
03-04-2019, 12:29 PM
A check??? Yikes i hope it clears! Sheesh!

Mermaid Avalynn
03-04-2019, 12:39 PM
Honestly I didn't think Ryan's messages were bad or anything but honestly I think solving somethings like this using messages and not talking face to face or at least using a shell phone, can make the imagination run a little wild with how things are said in messages. I don't think Raina should have posted and got involved and done what she did because 1 She is not the one dealing with this and 2 she really wasn't being the bigger person from what I see in her messages (kinda seemed like she was begging them to fight her) . I honestly love Swimtail tails and yes they have hit quite a few bumps and need to mend and fix a few things, but I honestly don't think they thought they were doing wrong in the beginning of this mess up and I think a lot of mers are blowing this way outta the water. This is just my opinion and I know a whole lot of you all aren't gonna agree. I'm just getting tired of the waves this drama is causing.

Saelyyia
03-04-2019, 01:25 PM
They violated a legal licensing agreement. These things can be very harmful to independent artists and do effect their lively hood. Its past your average "drama" waves, this was a legal issue and when they began slandering the artist who they had miss stepped with they were indignant, demanding, and went as far as to discredit her publicly. The artist asked to have her situation shared because she could not post at the time. This was a clarification more so than an attempt to make unnecessary waves or cause an attach. But many of us here on the forum are independent artist, crafters, etc and these things are very serious to us.

Slim
03-04-2019, 01:38 PM
From what I saw on Facebook, Raina shared the link because one of her friend work was being used with no authorization. Ryan came onto HER page threatening her with legal action. He dragged her into this and she responded with what she knew. That just my opinion. Everyone with orders caught in the middle just waiting may not know how to handle what to do but I'll give credit to Raina that she trying to stop people from scamming in the community.


Honestly I didn't think Ryan's messages were bad or anything but honestly I think solving somethings like this using messages and not talking face to face or at least using a shell phone, can make the imagination run a little wild with how things are said in messages. I don't think Raina should have posted and got involved and done what she did because 1 She is not the one dealing with this and 2 she really wasn't being the bigger person from what I see in her messages (kinda seemed like she was begging them to fight her) . I honestly love Swimtail tails and yes they have hit quite a few bumps and need to mend and fix a few things, but I honestly don't think they thought they were doing wrong in the beginning of this mess up and I think a lot of mers are blowing this way outta the water. This is just my opinion and I know a whole lot of you all aren't gonna agree. I'm just getting tired of the waves this drama is causing.

AniaR
03-04-2019, 02:21 PM
Honestly I didn't think Ryan's messages were bad or anything but honestly I think solving somethings like this using messages and not talking face to face or at least using a shell phone, can make the imagination run a little wild with how things are said in messages. I don't think Raina should have posted and got involved and done what she did because 1 She is not the one dealing with this and 2 she really wasn't being the bigger person from what I see in her messages (kinda seemed like she was begging them to fight her) . I honestly love Swimtail tails and yes they have hit quite a few bumps and need to mend and fix a few things, but I honestly don't think they thought they were doing wrong in the beginning of this mess up and I think a lot of mers are blowing this way outta the water. This is just my opinion and I know a whole lot of you all aren't gonna agree. I'm just getting tired of the waves this drama is causing.

I didn't post anything. I shared my friend's link that she posted, in hopes to educate people about what happened. Ryan chose to react the way he did, making threats and calling names. After calling Angela a liar, she released the screen shots. I shared them because she hadn't had her join request approved yet and it was the quickest way to shut down his lying. You think I was begging to fight him? Dude made a series of posts threatening me for sharing the link. I don't take kindly to false legal threats. I don't have to.

The only reason it causes drama is because they continue to mishandle it and not be appropriate. The community gave them a chance in the very thread I linked where they took finfolk's designs in the same manner. I was in that very thread wishing them luck and educating them. This is the third time they've done this. Is it really an accident at this point?

AniaR
03-04-2019, 02:22 PM
Sometimes it's not drama folks. sometimes it's standing up for what's right. They just want you to call it drama to try and invalidate the seriousness of the issue.

FancyFairyAngela
03-04-2019, 02:34 PM
My thoughts too Gita, let's hope it does arrive soon and is authentic.

MerWrangler Sean
03-04-2019, 02:50 PM
People need to stop using the word Drama every time they can't get all the facts and try to paint a happy picture. Sometimes the facts are the facts and we need to stop pretending there isn't an issue to seem like an arbitrator when someone has a legitimate concern. Drama is a word for people who can't understand the real issue and aren't willing to try. Taking an artists work or threatening someone is never acceptable behavior and we shouldn't dismiss it as Drama, it isn't helpful.

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Saelyyia
03-04-2019, 03:15 PM
People need to stop using the word Drama every time they can't get all the facts and try to paint a happy picture. Sometimes the facts are the facts and we need to stop pretending there isn't an issue to seem like an arbitrator when someone has a legitimate concern. Drama is a word for people who can't understand the real issue and aren't willing to try. Taking an artists work or threatening someone is never acceptable behavior and we shouldn't dismiss it as Drama, it isn't helpful.

Well said Sean, Thank you.

SirenGita
03-04-2019, 04:04 PM
Sweety, if you don't like reading about people trying to protect themselves and uphold the law, stop reading these threads.

You have no direct knowledge of this so your opinion isn't going to be based off of facts you don't have.

Drama is not advocating for yourself. I can't stand people who claim otherwise. That's just dishonest.

SirenGita
03-04-2019, 04:05 PM
Ps. Usually the people acting like this will NEVER do the right thing unless it goes public.

I'm glad you've never had to deal with this behavior but I'm sorry, it does exist.

Also, many people got ripped off. Hence the dozens off pissed off mers.

You don't get this reaction when you do nothing wrong without 99% of other people DEFENDING you that know you and can prove a history of good interactions.

eta: you never, ever EVER do anything involving legal matters without a paper trail. Cell phone calls are serious no nos because you can't show what happened. Usually it turns into the fraudster making threats and then sharing their victims personal info on places like craigslist dating sites with nasty messages so that the person either retracts their statements or gives up from the harassment. Yes. I've seen this happen to a LOT of people.

AniaR
03-04-2019, 05:11 PM
She did try to handle it private. This is how these companies exploit people. I have been in the industry going on 11 years and I ALWAYS speak up. I did when fishbutts scammed people and now they're under. I did it when mermaids r us did too and they're gone as well. Same with mermaid creations. If we do not speak up, it keeps happening. And swimtails already has many strikes against them. They're a public company. It's not a personal issue it's a business one. You wouldn't expect any other business to behave this way and then shame people into dealing with it privately.

Angela went public after DAYS without any reply. Stop shaming the victim. Stop shaming the people who are standing up. If it's not how you would go about it that's fine. But I feel your tune would change if YOU were the victim of their behaviour or a scam

Also, I only posted angela's content and my own as I felt that was all I had any right to post. But there are many many complaints and during this little tantrum Ryan (who I didnt even know existed until he went after people) went after quite a few others who have been sharing their stuff. many unhappy people who have never been refunded months later. That. Is. Theft

MerWrangler Sean
03-04-2019, 05:24 PM
It is not anyone's fault but Swimtails here. #1 They used art without respecting the artist, There was no agreement to use the art and therefore all claims of 30 days are invalid. #2 They refused to settle the dispute on terms that were more than reasonable from the artist and cost significantly less than the negative press this Public Relations nightmare turned into. The artist had legal grounds to seek penalties, and was fair in contacting them and requesting some sort of agreement. #3 They threatened the artist. If someone threatens you, you don't stay silent, you go public. She went public, don't shame her for defending herself, I'm tired of people victim shaming in this community. Why is anyone coming it to the defense of a company that operates like this is beyond me...

Sent from my [device_name] using MerNetwork mobile app

Slim
03-04-2019, 06:58 PM
He right. Staying silence even on the good side gets no where and can actually get the good person in trouble. Believe, I know first hand. I also know this isn't my battle. History only repeats itself when people refuse to make changes. At this time point, I still seen no one offer their time to help Swimtail make tails and get paid after so it's not like there are options. People are protective of their time and some don't want to take the chance. My friend has a betta tail and it's amazing so I want them to recover. However people shouldn't stop giving their opinions either because issues can't be fixed if people aren't given the chance to view things from both sides. All we can do is hope this has a happy ending.


It is not anyone's fault but Swimtails here. #1 They used art without respecting the artist, There was no agreement to use the art and therefore all claims of 30 days are invalid. #2 They refused to settle the dispute on terms that were more than reasonable from the artist and cost significantly less than the negative press this Public Relations nightmare turned into. The artist had legal grounds to seek penalties, and was fair in contacting them and requesting some sort of agreement. #3 They threatened the artist. If someone threatens you, you don't stay silent, you go public. She went public, don't shame her for defending herself, I'm tired of people victim shaming in this community. Why is anyone coming it to the defense of a company that operates like this is beyond me...

Sent from my [device_name] using MerNetwork mobile app (http://MerNetwork mobile app)

AniaR
03-04-2019, 07:47 PM
Sharing opinions is only dangerous when people think it entitles them to ignore facts and shame others. That isn't an opinion. It's inappropriate. *shrug* not really sure what you expect when your opinion tries to put blame on me of course I'm going to defend my actions lol.

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BlueCorvidae
03-04-2019, 09:35 PM
I feel pretty bad for Kristie. Seems like Swimtails was her idea and she just wants to run a company with her designs. Every time Swimtails screws up, Ryan tends to be the one behind it. I wish she would just divorce the clown already and hire a real business manager.

AniaR
03-04-2019, 09:48 PM
I feel pretty bad for Kristie. Seems like Swimtails was her idea and she just wants to run a company with her designs. Every time Swimtails screws up, Ryan tends to be the one behind it. I wish she would just divorce the clown already and hire a real business manager.

Right? I have sympathy but it only goes so far. He seems to be at the center of every scandal

FancyFairyAngela
03-04-2019, 11:12 PM
Honestly, if Swimtails had in fact been handling things correctly, they wouldn't care about those screen shots being released. In fact, they might have been relieved at the truth finally coming out.
They are upset about it because it shows the world their true colors as well as their dishonesty.
I would not GAF if they had done the same, and shared every single screen shot of the entire conversation.
You know why?
Because I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG.
THEY DID.
So they mad, LOL.
Mad because now everyone knows just how wrong they've been.
They can stay mad for all I care.
They did not in fact try to work things out privately all along, they straight up refused to pay the fee, and coming back with their own offer almost an hour after where they wouldn't have to pay me anything until much later after sales had been made - and probably never even would, is not 'working things out'.

No screen shots of any of the private convos were shared until after Ryan of Swimtails commented publicly on Raina's share of my blog post with accusations of lying, and after their lengthy back and forth messages accusing me privately of spreading false information & not telling 'the whole story' and were STILL trying to tell me that they were being generous by slightly changing the royalty percentage, still WITHOUT any up front payment.
It was also after Ryan's laughable email attempting to convince me I was missing out on $100,000 of royalties in just one year, even though they wouldn't pay me $419 for their mistake.
I had also caught sight of another public post that Ryan commented on, again stating that the true story wasn't being told and how he'd be happy to explain, then that post disappeared.

The best disinfectant is the truth, and those screen shots are truth.

Not to mention, I don't think it was really that much of a mistake, when the description of the tails said specifically "Exclusive designs are transferred onto a super-thick flexible & supportive, quick drying material"
"Exclusive" when the majority of the design of those tails were someone else's art? That was misleading to the public and simply not true.
As of this afternoon the product pages were still on their site with the images removed and 'sold out' status - https://www.swimtails.com/product/dark-fairy-mermaid-tail/

Do any of you really think Ryan was being honest in that email? That they really typically would make a million dollars on just one or two tail designs from their collection?
This is a multi-million dollar company?
Because if so, those ripped off customers should feel more pissed that they have to wait for refunds or product.
If not, then it's a lie or at best some incredibly wishful thinking bordering on delusion.

I'm being told that I'm getting a check in the mail, with a heaping serving of blame for how badly everything has gone and a strange denial that Raina said they gave permission for the screen shots to be released, which never even happened. Not sure where that's coming from at all, but I guess getting the facts wrong is their MO.

I will have at least a little bit of respect restored if a real check arrives by the deadline (this Saturday) and it actually clears.
However it's obvious it's only being done begrudgingly and to save face, so I still can't sing them any glowing praises.

FancyFairyAngela
03-04-2019, 11:23 PM
Also, let's keep in mind that it is Kristie who is admitting to being the one to 'design' the fairy mer tails, and is also the one doing most of the messaging and emailing, even now with blame put onto me every time.
I initially thought maybe she was sort of trapped under Ryan's thumb, but I'm not sure how innocent she is in this anymore.

BlueCorvidae
03-05-2019, 12:52 AM
Also, let's keep in mind that it is Kristie who is admitting to being the one to 'design' the fairy mer tails, and is also the one doing most of the messaging and emailing, even now with blame put onto me every time.
I initially thought maybe she was sort of trapped under Ryan's thumb, but I'm not sure how innocent she is in this anymore.

If she's telling the truth about buying stock images around the net in bulk, then using an image while forgetting the terms of use is a mistake I would probably make, especially if it was years down the road. (Though this is why I make a point to stick with stock that are free for personal and commercial use.) I really don't think it was something she did with malice, but rather just a case of being scatterbrained. The difference between me and Kristie is that if I was in her shoes, my husband wouldn't be responding to any emails and you'd have had your money and apology the moment I got your invoice.

That being said, it WAS a professional screw-up, and I agree that Swimtails should pay you the fee for misusing the stock. But I stand by my opinion, this really seems like a case of an artist wanting to start a business and her shithead husband screwing things up. I've seen it happen before in other industries. =/

Edit: Y'know what? I'm gonna just go ahead and clarify one more thing; I'm not trying to excuse what happened. I'm mostly frustrated because Swimtails has put out some pretty decent product last year, and seemed like they were well on their way for creating more. I really would have loved to see them do well, it's just... God dammit, Ryan.

inanna
03-05-2019, 03:57 AM
God dammit, Ryan.

echoing this. i have a tail from swimtails, but i bought it in 2015. while it hurts me a bit to say this, when i first saw this thread posted i decided i'm not going to buy anymore tails of theirs. i cannot support a company that does this.

just... god dammit, ryan.

AniaR
03-05-2019, 08:45 AM
If she's telling the truth about buying stock images around the net in bulk, then using an image while forgetting the terms of use is a mistake I would probably make, especially if it was years down the road. (Though this is why I make a point to stick with stock that are free for personal and commercial use.) I really don't think it was something she did with malice, but rather just a case of being scatterbrained

I agree, but am only willing to give so much wiggle room. If you make a habit of buying stock for commercial purposes then it's part of the job to make sure you keep track. For instance, I buy music to use in my Youtube videos. I have them saved in different folders for their terms of use. I've been buying music for years and it's my job to organize it and use it responsibly. Could one slip through the cracks? Absolutely. But then it's on me to handle that properly. It's not like Angela didn't bother to notify them and just jumped to screaming online you know? She was very patient and kind through the whole thing and they kept taking advantage of it.

Also, this isn't the only time they've done that. It's #3 now, so I am starting to think it's willful ignorance on their part. Let's hope we don't get caught mentality.


The difference between me and Kristie is that if I was in her shoes, my husband wouldn't be responding to any emails and you'd have had your money and apology the moment I got your invoice. And THIS exactly.

If they actually had ANY intention of making things right with Angela, Ryan - instead of commenting threats and arguing- could have come on to that thread and said "Hey, I know this is upsetting it was a mistake on our part and we are currently trying to work this out with Angela." but instead he made it seem like he had tried so many things and Angela was being difficult (when in reality they had not replied to her last email in 2 days) and hey I am gonna sue anyone who shares this link.

When things are a genuine mistake they're admitted upfront with a "what can I do to make this better?" and following through on it.

When that publisher used my image without my permission on the cover of a NYT Best selling book, it took one email and they instantly apologized and agreed to pay the fee. There was no blame on me. It was their job to properly vet the work because THEY are a business ya know?

I know I am preaching to the choir with you Blue lol, just making my points for others reading.

SirenGita
03-05-2019, 12:55 PM
Last thoughts on this from me agree with the last 2 posts. When i brought in a partner, i didn't realize she couldn't say the word NO to people and ended up in a lot of trouble as a result. I had no idea until a bunch of people came to me as she stopped responding and started screaming at me about missing money and orders and all kinds of things.

My reaction? Omg of course I'll fix this for you! Even though i hadn't done a dang thing involved in this!

Sadly i got kicked out of the system so i was not actually able to refind the people that got screwed so i got a bad rep for her mistakes. (She controllrd the social media)

To this day though, if somebody found me from that mess and still wanted recompense id give it in a heartbeat. It was partially my business, and i was the one dumb enough to bring in a young inexperienced partner.

If you put your name on things and accept payments from the profits you are accepting a role in that company and that comes with responsibilities.

Nobody deserves to be screwed over! Its NOT hard to do the right thing.

FancyFairyAngela
03-06-2019, 08:52 PM
I'm done with Swimtails. DONE.
I don't even want their money anymore, it's probably tainted.
I updated the blog post, I've already spent too much time responding to their bullshit, it was all just to waste my time while the public can think they actually ever intended to pay.
Scroll down to the 'but wait there's more': http://www.fancyfairy.com/news/2019/2/27/copyright-psa

FancyFairyAngela
03-07-2019, 07:31 PM
Don't know if I'm doing this right? But, this is the email that confirms that Swimtails did not purchase the extended license for commercial use. I updated my original News blog post with it too.
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/577090f2579fb3131649c2eb/t/5c819c6df9619a981a4ea6a7/1551998072953/Screen+Shot+2019-03-07+at+2.17.23+PM.png?format=750w

FancyFairyAngela
03-07-2019, 10:05 PM
Ryan continues to lie about the situation and twist the story as much as he can, and just opened up the comments on their fake apology post on Instagram. Anyone they've ripped off should report them to the FTC! They won't investigate a few individual consumer complaints, but they will investigate if there are lots of them :) That link is here: https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/GettingStarted?NextQID=203&Url=%23%26panel1-6#crnt

I also thought you'd be interested to know that they have an 'F' rating from the Better Business Bureau!
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/577090f2579fb3131649c2eb/t/5c81daa97817f71a490a95ce/1552014002976/Screen+Shot+2019-03-07+at+6.51.25+PM.png?format=1500w

SirenGita
03-08-2019, 04:15 PM
Yep they lost that bbb in december, I've also posted the info to the colarado ag and submitted a formal complaint, as i suggest you do too :(

Asterism
03-08-2019, 08:33 PM
So idk if this is worth mentioning but it appears Swimtails has removed their apology post entirely.

FancyFairyAngela
03-09-2019, 02:09 AM
So idk if this is worth mentioning but it appears Swimtails has removed their apology post entirely.

I noticed that too. I got a message from another wing maker who said that Ryan was sending her private messages after she asked what was up with the apology post. She said once he figured out she was not a customer he blocked her. She said "Deleted my question, accused me of not making sense and now blocked me 🤣😂🤣"

Maybe there was a shit storm I missed while I was away from Instagram? LOL

Slim
03-09-2019, 02:46 AM
The fact he is sending private messages of your to people he doesn't know worries me. That usually a sign that none of our private information is safe in that company. Makes me glad I never bought nothing otherwise I'd be changing my credit card number.

FancyFairyAngela
03-09-2019, 10:52 AM
The fact he is sending private messages of your to people he doesn't know worries me. That usually a sign that none of our private information is safe in that company. Makes me glad I never bought nothing otherwise I'd be changing my credit card number.

Woah, what exactly is he sending people? Did he send you something that supposedly is from me?
If he is doctoring screen shots I will be livid! I would not put it past him though.

FancyFairyAngela
03-09-2019, 11:54 AM
Oh, wait, nvm you meant the messages he was sending to my wing maker friend. Sorry I had just woken up ;P