Mertailor tails. Guys vs Girls

[merpirate]

Ok I want to state a few things here and now. everything I am writing is opinion based on things I have seen and noticed about. I do not want any flame wars over any of this.

I do want to hear others thoughts, about my opinion, but I don't want any insults about anyone. NO name calling no slander no bitching no biting no low blows

What I am saying is basically this I do not want any sort of drama coming from this. Wile I have my on views on Eric this opinion is not based on that at all. I am simply curious about something and wonder if any one else has ever noticed it
Admins please if drama starts on this thread I would like for you to please delete it ASAP. If it does I am truly sorry


I have noticed that a lot of the people who seem to get good tails (not all but a lot) seem to be males? where the girls seem to have more problems with the tails as well

I first noticed this with the drag show mermaid tails then spotted a few reviews around. where most of the girls I have noticed have had more issues with general fittings and comfort.

Do you think this could be because Eric is a guy and doesn't understand how to make a tail for the sexes differently? I am not sure if any other tail makers out there has looked into this but knowing a little about being a seamstress (My mother did that sort of thing as well ans several girlfriends I have had) I would have to say if is hasn't perhaps it should be. Any one who has ever worn a pair of guy pants and then girl pants would notice how the fit differently to the body. Shouldn't a tail be made for girls fit different than a tail made for guys? After all the hips alone on both sexes are built differently and would in my opinion change how a tail fits on each of them. Your thoughts.

P.S. Tailmakers if you read this please voice your views on it, and if anyone uses this idea a little credit would be nice, but only credit nothing else

[Merman Chris]

In all honesty, and for your data....I can only speak to our experience with Eric, but Shell's tail she ordered from him fit great and was delivered exactly five weeks from the order date. We had no complaints at all.

And oh yes, as a tailmaker herself she has mentioned and is aware that men's and women's bodies are very different to make tails for and must be considered when making the initial pattern.

[Mermaid Lorelei]

I know for one thing that the fit on the waist and bum would likely be different for women and men. Women generally hold their weight in that area, hence making it more difficult to close up that annoying gap that appears when swimming. This might be one area where comfort of fit is a problem. I have to say though, I've never really thought about this. It's interesting though. :> I could also possibly be speaking complete nonsense. XD It's early in the morning for me.

[AniaR]

It's funny you should mention that, when I first got my tail one of the big things I noticed about the waist area was how square it was. Obviously, we all know now it wasn't the right measurements, but it certainly seemed a little more masculine. I don't know if it's an issue of Eric making better tails for men, so much as higher known clients getting better quality tails than the average person. Generally a more famous client may be able to afford something more custom too. I honestly dont feel the tails we see in Chris Crumbly's photos are anything like what people get- even when they are silicone (plus I know how to spot photoshop and I have Chris as a friend on FB and have seen some before and after photos). I think Eric's biggest talent is paint jobs, and perhaps biggest weakness is sizing- though he seems to be improving as I havent heard many complaints about sizing. I will say Claudio's tail is one of the best I've seen on a man. Since we're on the topic of male vs female though, I will say in my own personal opinion I dont think his tops understand the female body. I've only got three tops, one by Raven, one by Lexi, and one by Cydney, neither are as intricate as a design as Eric's octopi tops... but as far as women go I dont think many of the designs would offer enough coverage or support. Women's boobs may be one of those areas that need a little more practicality ;) While certain things may look nice in a photo or can be positioned to look nice for a photo, practicality wise they're not great. In my opinion from what I have seen of process photos and photos of them on models.

[MermanMatty]

Raina

You don't have one of Eric's tops so you honestly don't know how his tops fit, besides they're also for B's and up anyway, and they do support the breasts because we have girls wear them all the time and they were sculpted off the mold of a womans breasts with High C's, Low D's.

P.s. Eric actually makes molds of womens breasts so that way it can be supportive and provide enough coverage. Some people you know that makes tops don't do that...

[MermaidRaegan]

^drama

Last I checked, my hips, waist, and bust measerment have been the same for five years. Valid arguement. Also, I am quite aware that my waist and my hips are different.

I've noticed that more men seem to like their tails, but I've also seen plenty of women who like their tails. I've wondered if this is simply a problem that he's learned to fix recently, or if this could be because his tails are off the rack and he makes several that he later alters and colors when someone orders them. I won't pretend to know everything about the subject since I myself don't own a mertailor tail, but from reading reviews on this site and others, I've noticed the pattern. Could be random though. Carp happens and all that jazz.

[MermanMatty]

Then you are a rare woman, because I know a lot of women, I mean A LOT, and they are constantly changing. As a gay man, they complain to me!

And it may seem that more men like their tails more compared to women but the ratio of Women:Men is substantial, almost 30:1, so it may seem like the men like their tails more but there are more women who order so it poses my opportunity for complaints. Simple math of probability, as the numbers increase so do the chances of a bad roll.

And Eric does not have tails pre-made because I watch him cut the fabric for the tails, review measurements, Line the tails for measurements, Latex the tails, paint the tails, and sew the tails. So the whole "cookie cutter" thing is out the window :)

Sometimes there are mishaps with measurements, I'm dating him for god sakes and I messed up on my own measurements for my new tail! (I wanted a low rider tail but he won't let me lol) Eric had to go behind me and measure me again so he could get it right lol people make mistakes


Matty
Serpent of the Deep

[AniaR]

Matty, as I specifically said, my opinion was only based off of what I saw, obviously since I have not worn one. But to me, this design specifically, https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/380575_448783821805872_130816216935969_1953787_150 0206139_n.jpg both of them, would not provide enough coverage for *me* to be comfortable. And while it looks elaborate and nice, it's not the top I would go for. Same with this one https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/523026_439041062780148_130816216935969_1930207_186 4157285_n.jpg as it looks to me from all the photos it barley covers her breasts, and would be less practical because it's held on with the netting. In my EXPERIENCE which is limited, as I have already stated, it's much more difficult to swim in a top that relies on that type of setting. Practicality. My opinion, nothing you need to get all defensive about, this thread asked us our opinions I have stated mine and supported why I feel that way.


P.s. Eric actually makes molds of womens breasts so that way it can be supportive and provide enough coverage. Some people you know that makes tops don't do that... you mean Raven? Yeah, since I've actually seen her tops in person and talked to her about that, I know she actually does mould them from breasts- her cute ones! Hence why they're only available for the time being in a certain size. Im sure if Eric added octo tops to his store so that anyone could buy one the same they could a tail, he'd be stuck relying on the women around him and not able to mould one for every single customer that wants ones. I don't really see why you need to drag any other tail makers into this thread either, it's a simple question of people's opinions based on what they've seen on mertailor's work on males and females. And for me, like I stated, Im not sure if it's so much that he does better with men- I think you made a good point that because there are fewer men than women in tails so it may seem that way. I think higher known clients with bigger budgets get better tails. They can afford better tails, they generate publicity, so it's a good deal on both ends.

It's my understanding that if you're on the forum, it's not so you can defend every thing people write about mertailor that you disagree with. Nobody in this thread has accused Eric of being cookie cutter- but eric's tails come from Moulds so they're going to be "off the rack" unless he makes a new mould for every customer (which yes, other tail makers do, they'll even destroy your mould for an extra fee so no one else can use it), and many of our opinions are formed from things beyond what's posted on this site. It may come as a shock to you but since you're here, a few people don't want to post their complaints, but will do so on places like deviantART and facebook. Not everyone who has a complaint about a mertailor tail, is some hateful mernetwork forum person. Complaints and opinions are just that, complaints and opinions. This thread can continue to travel in thoughtful discussion about male and female shape and tail making, or can boil down to drama where posts get reported, people get huffy, there's stress for members and the admins, and no one looks good.

So let's continue with the thoughtful discussion shall we?

Merpirate, I think you bring up a good point. I've often pointed out to people that I think Jesse is very talented when he makes his tails for men. I can't really put my finger on it but out of all the tail makers out there Jesse just really understands male's bodies and I think it reflects in the tails he makes. That's not to say he can't make them for women too- I've see his other tails. But for whatever reasons, his male ones just seem to have that extra masculinity.

Same goes with Shell, for the longest time she'd only made feminine tails and I dont think anyone knew what to expect when she took up making one for Chris. But I think we can all agree she create a beast (in a good way) of a tail that was totally masculine. To me, Eric's tails don't read feminine or masculine. I can't really explain why. Just my personal aesthetic I guess. The tails he's made for Matty, Claudio, etc could easily be worn by women without them looking masculine, just as they're worn by the guys without looking feminine. I do think the ones for the calendars look way better, I think Claudio's is better too than most but remember Claudio had been an upset customer too who decided to give Eric a second chance, it would have been pretty bad to have a bad tail twice. It's hard to know for sure, especially with the ratio of women to men being so big.

Interesting topic!

[Kanti]

Hmmm... You know that's a pretty good question.
I think chicks are a bit harder to size in the longrun. Sometimes you get very curvy chicks and sometimes
you get very plain and simple girls. When I made my first neoprene tail, I measured it to be at my belly button,
then when I tried it on, my ass had taken half the material away and it came down to RIGHT above my hips lol

You also have to remember that a lot more women seem to order mermaid tails than men do. Perhaps men have
problems as well, but for every 1 bad measurement for a guy, there are 4 bad measurements for girls, so it may
just be that the problems with girl's tails are more common because there's simply more of them.

So you know what, that may be true. It may not be that Eric isn't skilled enough, it may just be that he fits
things wrong sometimes. Girls vary a lot more than men regardless of how much you prepare for it.


And Matty, please don't start accusing people of hating the Mertailor. A lot of people on this forum actually
like his tails, have purchased from him and have even left good reviews. So saying something like that is
completely false and blindsighted.
Can we please get an admin to move Matty's posts to the drama thread?

[Kanti]

Raina I thought you blocked Matty so you wouldn't have to deal with him?
Perhaps you should just continue to do so.

You have to understand that Matty is just as overprotective about the Mertailor as you are
about Raven, so you guys will probably not reach an aggreement anytime soon.

[babsannee]

I am also a "rare" woman apparently, because I'm also a constant. But first off, merpirate asked us specifically not to create drama, and I think that he has a valid and engaging idea going. So, lets return to that.

Merpirate,
if you find out anything else, let us know! Perhaps it has to do almost in where the hip bone curves? The female hips are made for giving birth, while males, I would think, were made to be some what stronger, in the respect of like bearing weight. Plus, we have different muscles that are stronger or weaker, because we were evolutionarily built for different tasks. I would love to know if you find out anything else out!!!!
:D

[AniaR]

Raina I thought you blocked Matty so you wouldn't have to deal with him?
Perhaps you should just continue to do so. It's not an actual full block it seems, just puts a person on your ignore list so they cant send you PMs etc. For whatever reason the posts were defaulted to show but I fixed that now :D all hidden.


I am also a "rare" woman apparently, because I'm also a constant.

It's funny, I'm not, while my weight itself doesn't change very much, thanks to various medications water retention does. So I do find my waist line changes occasionally. But, Im not getting any taller/shorter. I think you make a good point about female hips. My tail generally fits me perfect, but it seems like every 3 weeks in my cycle of meds I thin down again, so I just wear tights underneath it now and it makes up the difference. I think meds are one thing that DO change women's weight a lot, especially women who take anti-depressents, birth control pills, or in some cases even anti-biotics (if they have to take them frequently)

[babsannee]

That is a fair point. I lost weight after going on my medication (I have GAD) but it was a one time thing, so I didn't think of it. When I fluctuate, it's not really enough to change sizes, so I wouldn't feel it was fair to say that I did.

[Mermaid Star]

Matty, I really wish you would have come in here with the last statement you made rather than trying to inflame people by calling them hateful, spiteful, and nasty. That typically doesn't get a good response and only serves to get a rude response back. Please note that the thread was begun, in bold, that this was not meant to inflame. It is seriously a honest discussion. No need to come in guns a-blazing. Your points are valid and very much welcome. I just wish those points were highlighted rather than your first two posts here.

It is true that people have a hard time measuring themselves. Especially if they are trying to do it them selves. As a maker of costumes and garments, you can really screw up if you are trying to measure yourself since when you bend to look at the measurement, you make become smaller or larger in some areas and can give a false measure. I too know where my hips and waist are (from sewing) but usually a simple measuring guide will solve this. (I think Eric has one on his web site) but if anyone is looking for a how to measure you can find one online or in any pattern book for sewing in the back.

I found with making my own tail (The realistic latex) that measurements are very delicate and should be followed exactly. Not only are your measurements, but the thickness of the latex (if you are using it) is important as the thicker it gets, the less stretch you have and the tighter it fits. My tail was definitely an experiment and one full of lessons learned. You can make a tail that has the perfect measurements and still come out with a ill fitting tail if you are not careful. (Certain materials are stretchier than others)

I don't think that it has anything to do with male verses female when the item you are working on is based on measurements. Though the more measurements you give (or are required), the more exact you can get. Now Tops are different and I feel are better when attached to a bra to make varying sizes. Otherwise they only fit a certain size. Unless you have multiple molds of different sizes of breast in all of the sizes and half sizes. And even then you wont be able to cover all of the sizes out there just due to the constraints of the top to be molded (It is easier to explain in person).

[Mermaid Star]

Sorry that I reitterated a lot of things others have already been said I was working on this and a crap ton of people posted before I could hit "post", LOL. Sorry again if I was a little redundant.

[New York Mermaid]

LOL Im the constantly changing type, ever since my thyroids began acting up ive been playing the weight yo-yo game, Right now however im at a constant weight, which is why i decided to get the tail made. Being hispanic, we got quite some junk in our truck, i also have wide hips (which is always fun because i can never find pants which fit my hips and thighs right). However it is true, not everyone is well learned on the "measuring yourself" aspect.. I measured myself 4 times and my hubby 1 time to make sure i got the measurments correct (im alittle OCD, that and i couldnt believe my butt/ hips were that big lol).

[Winged Mermaid]

Can we please get an admin to move Matty's posts to the drama thread?

Done. Offensive post (1) was moved.

[merpirate]

Thank you Winged for removing the comment.

As to the people who have asked. I know a few tail makers(Yes Eric too) ask for only few main measurements. Where others ask for detailed measurements. the second way is closer to a costume maker/seamstress which is how I think it should be. I wear pants that on average are 32/30 but if I don't check each time I buy pants some of them don't fit, this is because not everybody measures the same. When making a body tight costume a costume maker does all the measurements to make sure that they fit just right. a tail it seems should be done about the same way, with as many measurements (beyond the main of length and waist) as possible to make sure of the fit. I also think that ALL tail makers should say where a measurement should start. Most people don't wear things where they are measured for. Simple proof, the wait measurement is often done wrong here a couple of links to a proper way to measure your waist

http://www.ehow.com/how_2307504_measure-waist.html

http://www.webmd.com/diet/waist-measurement


Now most of us current wear our pants lower then that somewhere around the hips, and think of it as our waist, which begins a mistake in measurements (and no I am not talking about the people who wear pants some where around the pelvic bone, that is a rant in of it self)


Now it you have a proper waist measurement and then say a thigh measurement and length that is the same on a guy and girl the same tail wouldn't fit both of them the same way, simply because of the hips on guys and girls and not built the same (thank you all who said as much already) more so women do tend to have rounder behinds than men. This would also cause a issue with how a tail fits. Perhaps tail makers would do them selves a service to inquire to a seamstress about how to make form fitting items and even take a class or two in costume making. Opinions for all please (Again no drama, this goes to everybody. I am trying to help everyone get better tails from ANYONE!, not put down any one tail maker)

[merpirate]

As for tops, I know for a fact that a women can have several sizes of bras fit her all depending on several things. a top by far would then in my opinion be created easier if you could measure the client yourself, or have them send you a bra that fits them right and aply what ever your top is to it somehow (of course depending on the top being made this cold also cause problems)

[Winged Mermaid]

I can't speak for the constantly changing body types- I still wear some clothes from 7th grade! My body does change but very slowly.. actually, about 4lbs a year slowly, haha. I can understand the worry with those who have big fluctuations though. For them I think the best option would be a snug fitting silicone tail, since can have a lot of stretch (depending on how it's made) for when your weight goes up but still fit when it goes back down.


You know, I think Sasha (FireGypsy) had it right in her How to Make a Mermaid Tail video. Measure every 2 inches all the way down - making sure you hit the main points of course, such as stomach, waist, hips, knees, ankles, ect. Heck, you could even use her method of using masking tape with the 2 inches marked all the way down, then stick that to a thin (width wise), long piece of paper, roll it up, and send it to the tail maker with the sheet of measurements included. I think there are too many variables in the human body- male or female- to try and get a great fitting tail every time based off of only a hand full of measurements. Knowing how to measure right also helps. I had several different people (who I explained how to measure correctly and showed them on someone else before they did me) measure me to make sure everything was correct. If I ever got a really high end tail though? I'd go to a seamstress. It's worth it to get those measurements right!

[AniaR]

Im convinced the next time I can afford another Raven tail I will fly to Florida, as a vacation anyway, and have her measure me in person XD lol

[Sephina]

I can actually say from experience that it seems like Eric doesn't leave enough bum room in the tails. That's the issue I"m having with mine, it hardly covers everything. Mostly because from my belly button to the floor is 39 inches. Which is fine, but when you measure from where my pants sit in the back to the floor it's 43 inches to give more bum room. Which I don't think a lot of guys really have that issue so you might be right.

[Winged Mermaid]

I can actually say from experience that it seems like Eric doesn't leave enough bum room in the tails. That's the issue I"m having with mine, it hardly covers everything. Mostly because from my belly button to the floor is 39 inches. Which is fine, but when you measure from where my pants sit in the back to the floor it's 43 inches to give more bum room. Which I don't think a lot of guys really have that issue so you might be right.

You're right. I think the measurements need to include a belly button to the floor on the front AND back. I see some tail makers where the back is longer than the front when it lays flat (and has a scoop down to the front lower part) and those are the ones that look the best fit wise. If you make it longer to account for the butt but still "equal" measurements (they match up length wise when i lays flat) then it comes up to one's ribs, and that isn't very flattering when you're sitting on dry land :/

[AniaR]

I can actually say from experience that it seems like Eric doesn't leave enough bum room in the tails. That's the issue I"m having with mine, it hardly covers everything. Mostly because from my belly button to the floor is 39 inches. Which is fine, but when you measure from where my pants sit in the back to the floor it's 43 inches to give more bum room. Which I don't think a lot of guys really have that issue so you might be right.

totally agree. My tail comes up really high, my current one, because we measured for my bum and figured I could cut it down if I felt it was too high. But now that I have it, I've left it high because I can cover my belly rolls I get sometimes XD with my illness my abdomen swells occasionally and it's NOT pretty so being able to hike the tail up is nice. I could still cut it down if I want, but I kinda like it the way it is

[MermaidRaegan]

I can attest to the bum thing. I have a couple pairs of jeans that I love, but I can barely sit in them because I'm so scared of showing more than people want to see or I want to share. Also, I know Shelly talked about measuring to the floor instead of her ankles to make up for how tails shift when you point your toes, which my experience with costumes can back (nothing more awkward than trying to keep together a costume that's malfunctioning on stage during a performance).

[Prince Calypso]

didn't Eric star by making tells for himself?
i could understand how he could understand a man's body more so than a woman's if so

i also think more men are satisfied with there tails mainly because they are men.
you don't see guy complaining when you buy then a shirt that like two sizes too big.
they were that sucker and make it fit lol

personally ive never ordered a tail from Eric simply because i don't have money like that
so i can't say. but if i dead i would give him measurements from the point of a woman cause that how i measure myself so
i would have to wonder would he get it right lol
and i'm not attacking the Mertailor or anything
the guy makes epic tails... at least visually

but honestly if he is messing ups girl's sizes or the tails are made with a man's figure in mind thats why is't good to know how to sew and tailor stuff
and have a boyfriend who knows about silicone and stuff like that lol

[Mermaid Bella]

this is quite an interesting thread, i have a close friend who is a cross player, for those who dont know, crossplaying is not the same as cross dressing,she does not wear mens clothing on day to day basis, she only dresses as male characters, and in one instance a cross dressing female one, but thats more confusing than i care to go into.

anyway, she is also a seamstress and the process of altering womans clothing into mens and the reverse is very time consuming, even if you dont see the differance in the final product, it is very important. while a man can have the same size and dementions as a woman (poor soul) his clothes will be completely differant. even the block is more square.

also i have many years of low knees, sore hips, baggy crotches and massive pant legs from wearing boys school pants. yay for having a fat a... butt.

[merboy78xy]

I think that more important than the size of butt is the shape difference between men and women-- women have pear-shaped butts (generally) due to the structure of their hips, as well as the placement of their "fat-storing" cells, and men tend to have a square-ish or 'bubble" shapped butt (again, generally). I love the curve of women's illium (hip bone crests) and would love to see tails that accentuate these. For men, I love the sweeping line of in-shape obliques, so likewise, I would love to see a tail that showcases that (not that I have the best obliques hehehehe). I'm also jealous of the fact that women tend to have hyperextended knees which gives a beautiful, graceful curve to their legs when they lock their knees (if sitting on the floor and they do this, their feet often come off the ground), whereas men's legs generally don't and you just have bland straight locked legs. Obviously, the curve of a woman's hips is beautiful and should be accounted for, and men sometimes look like they're missing something around that area when they wear a tail (look at Michael Phelps in a Shouse tail... he's in impeccable shape, but it's like... hmmm... what's missing around his waistline?)...
these are some of my thoughts about accentuating the differences between the sexes as far as tails are concerned

[Spindrift]

Interesting observations!

**makes note to work on abs more** Haha.

[Merman Craig (Delphinar)]

Same here. I think those are some pretty good observations. And I think they show the difference.