"Grow" your own sneakers?

[Kanti]

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=gVk_Vw1C7cs

http://www.rayfish.com/

A company called Rayfish that apparently uses stingray skin for sneakers found a way to genetically
engineer stingrays to carry certain colors and patterns, this way, they simply engineer a stingray with
a certain pattern, allow it to grow, then harvest it for sneakers.
They have a contest out that allows you to design your own sneaker and if it wins they'll make you a pair
of sneakers from a genetically altered stingray.
Oh, also, the price to grow the stingray is $1,800.

Now, I know this is pretty annoying to think about. Is style REALLY that damn important that we need to
genetically alter a friggin stingray? Can't we just dye the shoes or something? Are people REALLY willing
to pay THAT much for a stupid pair of sneakers made from a stingray?

Well I sort of thought about it, but take into consideration all the other things we genetically modify and use
for our own purposes. The turkeys we eat for thanksgiving are so swollen and big they can't even mate normally
and have to be artificially inseminated, dogs are altered to make breeds that are more favorable, sometimes not
always for cute-n-cuddly reasons (rotweilers and pitbulls were genetically selected to be good at fighting off
threats or other dogs for entertainment), etc.

Any thoughts?

[Nyx]

I don't know if I agree with it.
I'm in the position where I don't consider using animals for clothing wrong so long as its humane, but i mean actually humane, where the animal gets to live and enjoy it's life fully.
However, genetically changing a sting ray for a pair of shoes doesn't sit well with me. That takes the charm out of a stingray's pattern. Not only that, but that price is ridiculous for a shoe. Something that probably wont last you too long.
If it were selective breeding to make patterns for the fish then it's more understandable. That's what they do for koi fish and other animals.
But still, that price for shoes is just ...

[Kanti]

Yea I sort of find it disrespectful to the animal.
I dunno how different it is from all the koi example, but like you said at least them it's a bit more
natural. I also don't know if the genetic engineering stays put to the skin or if it makes the stingray
meat unclean or something?
If you're using an animal for something, you may as well use the whole thing.

[Nyx]

Yeah I agree, it would be a waste not to use it all.
Genetic engineering is just changing the genes of the stingray before it is "made/conceived"
It should only affect the pattern of the skin and nothing else.
For example, lets say you want to make a lion with the coat pattern of a dalmatian (crazy examples for amusement)
you would take the gene of the dalmatian that says it will have spots and place it in the DNA of the lion (or something like that). It should not have any effect on the animal, unless for some reason skin pattern gene has an effect on the meat.
I hope that makes sense, We JUST finished learning this in bio.

[AniaR]

ugh that's sad :( I wouldnt wear shoes made out of stingrays. Im not vegetarian or anything, but I do try to avoid products like that

[Kanti]

Well I have no idea how far the gene for the skin goes, it may alter the flesh so I dunno xD
But yea, I just find it unneccessary. Don't we already have converse that you can have in a bunch
of colors? I thought half of the glamour of leather was that it looks natural. You don't see people
dying their leather belts bright purple, it's not classy.
So why would you do that to a stingray? It just seems so weird..

Either way I really don't support that. It's not the fact that they're using stingray that makes me
raise a brow, it's the fact that someone pays $1k to get a stingray genetically engineered just
because they can.

[Nyx]

Exactly, and in my opinion ....
They look hideous.
._.

[AniaR]

man if you were going to have one like that id be half tempted to want it as a pet

[Nyx]

man if you were going to have one like that id be half tempted to want it as a pet
Omy god XD
thats what I was thinking.

[Mermaid Saphira]

I would totally want a zebra stripped stingray as a pet!!!! <3

[Mermaid Lorelei]

There is the possibility of the stingray being 'tainted' by the genetic altering. I was a biology major for two years, so I know a bit about this stuff. Basically, unless you know EVERY detail about EVERY segment of the creature's DNA, there is no full-proof way to be sure that messing with one section won't negatively impact another. If the stingrays are being altered at conception, then all of their DNA will be copied with that same genetic code alteration, hence allowing strange mutations to arise. In other words, the meat could end up tasting like brocolli, or something else unexpected like that. There's really no way to be sure without understanding every detail about genetics (which we sure as heck don't).

Sorry. Randomness over. I'm a bit of a science nerd sometimes.

[Kanti]

Haha by all means, be a science nerd xD I think it's interesting to learn.
I'm a bio major too but I never really got into all that gene stuff, I really don't have any clue what
sort of stuff goes into it but what you said made sense to me. I assume it's pretty impossible to
know if NOTHING but the skin is affected. Especially since the appearance of skin usually isn't just
surface stuff. Who knows?
Maybe a pattern that has too much red will be harder than a pattern with lots of green? Maybe a yellow
pattern will cause the stingray to be more suseptible to sun damage since it's skin isn't normally that
color? Stuff like that I suppose I would imagine could happen.

[Mermaid Lorelei]

I remember doing laboratory tests on flies and we found some pretty strange results. Stuff like random extra appendages when we were trying to deal with a single protein in a completely unrelated gene. You just never know what might be affected.

[Prince Calypso]

wow i don't really like the idea of wearing one of my fave seas creature on my feet. nor do i like the idea of harvesting just for that purpose.
i could see if they were maybe doing medical work and trying to finds cures for something but for fashion?
and this coming from the mermaid who is fashion crazy and believes anything for beauty.

[Nemefish]

awwww poor stingrays :( GOD DAM HUMANS! >X(

[Kanti]

Well, Calypso, you can eat stingray meat, we just aren't sure if altering the genetic code affects the meat so
if it does maybe it wouldn't be that great anymore.

I just don't find the appeal of tacky colors in leather products. If I get leather I want it to look classy.

[Mermaid Rillia]

As far as I'm concerned, what I heard was that most of the things that we harvest for fashion dont get used completely. I dont agree with this stingray shoe one bit and find it completely rediculous. However if you're going to harvest something for it's skin, you might as well use the meat too. It just goes to show how humans will always feel the need to show that we see ourselves as better than nature. -_- I personally would never buy these or pay 1k dollars for any type of shoe. Just my thoughts though.

However a zebra stingray would be cool in my aquarium. :)

[Bellasea]

I colored stingray would be cool in an aquarium, I don't want a shoe from it. Like Calypso, I'm all for medical advances using animals. I want to go into marine biotechnology, so this is really cool that they can change a gene to make they stingray have cool patterns, but really? they could be trying to find a way to do something else. Not make shoes.

[Kanti]

Yea, it really seems like such a cool advance in science to be used on such a petty idea.
Anyone who's willing to pay $1k and wait a year or two or however long it takes to grow the
stingray needs a lesson on how to spend their money and perhaps get an ego check.

[malinghi]

http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/picture/LociceroA/poster83828725.jpg

[Jeblily]

They do use the meat, "Rayfish Footwear opposes the harvesting of rays from the wild and is dedicated to ocean preservation. The stingrays’ meat does not go to waste, but is donated to our employees and local charities. Some have commented on the high price of our sneakers – part of the reason for this price is so that we can ensure that our rays live in comfortable conditions. Our stingrays lead objectively better lives than any food animal raised in a “factory farm”. In fact, anyone who is concerned about animal welfare should consider Rayfish Footwear sneakers as a humane alternative to industrially-produced cow leather..."

Not sure if is entirely true though.:confused:

[Kanti]

Wow if what they say is true then that's very noble of them.
But again, yea, you never know. People can write anything in their statements, doesn't make it true at all xD
I'd like to visit one of their farms and see what it is they do.

But I don't know why they'd lie about the meat? But it does seem off they donate it to their "employees and
charities". To me that sounds like "Hey you guys want any of this meat? No? Ok give it to the "feed the
homeless" charity then". Maybe it's not good enough meat to be given/sold to restaurants?
Either way, at least it's being used, that's nice.

And they could be right about the "the rays are a more humane alternative to cow leather". Cows are basically
treated like complete shit their entire lives and no one really cares. So even though this stingray thing seems
strange, it's not really much different. Maybe we should show concern for our cows too :/

[Bellasea]

Maybe we should show concern for our cows too :/


Yes we should!!

[Kanti]

Yea, I don't think people realize how bad animals have it in general, so when people get offended
about something like a stingray it sort of raises the question about all the other animals we take
advantage of everyday.

Chickens, cows, pigs, sheep, turkeys, foxes.. They all have just as or even worse lives than these
stingrays do.

[Bellasea]

Yeah, there is a thing you can do with cows. You can buy a cow. I know some families that do this. You buy the calf, and then you have full control (well to some extent) over how it is raised. Then once it is full grown, it is killed and butchered and you get all the meat. So your cow could live i very happy, albeit short, life. You can also, get chickens from local farms, instead of going to the grocery store buying a tub of chicken breasts.

[Kanti]

Yea, we don't have very many local farms where I live but we do have "organic" and "whole foods" stores
that you can possibly do some background checks on.
Only problem is your steak becomes a bit more expensive xD But I'd rather pay extra for a cow I can know
had an actual life.

I'm jealous of my cousin, he lives in South Carolina and they have a TON of farmer's markets all over the place.
You can visit the farms and see exactly what they do and how they do it. It's something I wish I had more of.
Raising my own animals would be nice, but it'd take a lot more space than I could ever afford x_x

[Mermaid Lorelei]

My family buys a cow each year. We have half a cow in the freezer right now. :P

[Bellasea]

Yeah, that is the down side. Where I live it is mostly farms. So, I get to go the farmer's market twice a week. I would always rather pay extra for an animal that was raised better.

[Kanti]

Yea, in a way that's why I sort of support hunting, in moderation, I think.
That way you can usually tell the age of what you're killing, you usually only kill what you're going
to use, and you're target grew up in the wild, where it should be
Not to mention, killing it with a gun is usually a lot more humane/easier than what slaughterhouses
do to kill animals -__-
Bow on the other hand, is probably not as nice for the animal, depending on where you hit it.

I think fishing is a whole nother story though. Spear fishing is probably the only equal to actual
gun/bow hunting, since you can choose your target, but regular fishing or net fishing is a lot harder
since you can't really controll what you get.

[Bellasea]

I agree with the hunting stance, kinda. Bow hunting can be quicker than with a rifle, all depends on shot placement. If your a bad shot and hit the deer's spine instead of vitals, or even you are too far back and hit in the gut, either way no matter the weapon, the deer won't drop dead. If you are a good shot and hit in the lungs and heart, then no matter the weapon, the deer will either drop right there or take only a few steps.

Only some states really control the deer population. In Michigan, where I live, the state wants controls quanity not quality. So buck and doe permits are handed out by number willy-nilly. In other states, you need to shoot a doe to earn a buck, or a buck can only be shot if it has three or more spikes on one side. This regulates quality. That way, the buck's shot are usually older.

When I fish, I usually get what I am going for. So I don't entirely agree with you on fishing. But I do agree with you on net fishing, you can't really control what you get. And on the big comerical fishing boats there is by-catch. Which is the extra's they don't want, and the fish usually are dead by the time they are thrown back in. I don't know about spearfishing, but I do know about bowfishing. And the fish you bowfish for are carp. You can't eat carp, so it is really just killing fish. But they are nuisances, and there is no limit. So, if spear fishing is any thing like bow, then I don't find it any better.

[Kanti]

Spearfishing is usually done in saltwater, it's where you have a loaded speargun which fires a spear that's connected to
the gun with a rope of some sort. So basically, you shoot the fish you want, it gets stuck on the spear, you reel it in and take
it to your boat. You can see exactly what you're getting and you get to choose the fish based of size and such.

I say you can't control what you catch for fishing because you really can't. You can bait the hook with a certain thing, put it
in front of or near a certain fish, but in the end, anything can bite your line, whether it's something completely different like a
snake, bird, duck, or even a different species of fish you didn't mean to catch, or you can actually GET what you were looking
for, but you can't control how large it is. Therefore, you might catch a baby bass rather than an adult bass.

[Mermaid Rillia]

Yeah. I know what your saying kanti. My cousin goes hunting for wild boar and Alligators for the most part. I've never gone with him but I imagine that it could be fun if I got into it.

[Bellasea]

Ok I get what you are saying kanti. Although, I have never gor a duck...

[Kanti]

I got a duck hooked a few times xD Luckily I've never had them swallow it or anything so
it's an easy situation in the end.
Mostly those annoying mascovy ducks that hang around residential areas. They always hang around
when people are around cause they assume they're getting fed. Then when you cast your line, they
always think it's bread or something for them.

[Mermaid Rillia]

I've never hooked a duck fishing. However a pelican that was flying in the area completely railed my line and got all tangled up in it. It almost ripped the pole out of my hand. He got free eventually, before i could reel my line back to untangle him.

[Bellasea]

This video is some what related, with the whole "growing" clothes. Grow Your Own Clothes (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/living/2011/05/28/ted.suzanne.lee.TED)

[Mermaid Cascada]

That's messed up!! -.- Those poor stingrays :(

[Fortuna]

Why wear anything made from animals? Just because sting rays might have it better than cows doesn't make it okay. There are lots of materials that you can use that aren't made from animals..:)

[Kanti]

Well, it would be nice if things were that way but unfortunately that's very far from the truth.
Almost EVERYTHING in your house is made from an animal at some point.

Here's a very interesting picture I came across to help better explain

3484

As for clothes, yea, I don't really like fur suits and stuff like that. A lot of animals that are killed
for their fur aren't really great for eating, so their meat gets thrown aside.

[New York Mermaid]

their saying its fake:
http://www.livescience.com/20705-transgenic-stingray-shoes-fake.html

[spottedcatfish]

http://mernetwork.com/index/attachment.php?attachmentid=3484&d=1340386295

At least we are using most of the cow. I had no idea there were so many uses for production from cows!

[Kanti]

I wouldn't doubt it is fake. You'd think they wouldn't make such a big deal about it if it was, though?
If they did somehow manage to do what they claim, then they really need to share their methods
because that's some crazy advancement to be wasting on some weird shoes.

[Merman Dan]

http://mernetwork.com/index/attachment.php?attachmentid=3484&d=1340386295

At least we are using most of the cow. I had no idea there were so many uses for production from cows!

like jell-o? ;)

[riverunner]

I have heard of weird genetically altered stuff before like glow in the dark animals and such. but what worries me if this is real, is what would happen if this kind of animal got loose or was placed in the wild . One can only know how much damage something like that could cause if it started mating since who knows what kinds of traits get passed along to the next generation . could become a new invasive species . I hear this is a general fear for a lot of genetically altered animals.

[Arella]

I read about this in a magazine! I think their neat but the price is ridiculous! I don't think it's all that unethical. It's similar to leather and as for the genetic modification at least the colors and patterns are natural. It's better then them injecting the dye into the poor things.