Strengths and Weaknesses of Mer Community

[AniaR]

So, now that we have this brand new forum and so many new people coming to it I feel like we've really been growing as a commuinity. With the new pods ideas and all the going-ons I thought it would be cool to start this topic so we can go into this fin first!!! I think with any community it's good to set goals, to recognize issues and call them out before they get too big, and to brainstorm fun things for the community and ways we can grow!

I know the one of the mods and I had talked about a feature or newsletter in the future as something as a fun possibility.

What other things should we do with this forum?

What things do you like about the mer community?

What questions do you have?

What things do you want to see changed?

What things are bad?

I feel by openly discussing these things we can strengthen our community and also prevent drama before it happens :)

This is a SAFE PLACE however, people are entitled to their opinions and you do not have to agree. If you disagree please do so respectfully and if you have a gripe or bad thing etc please keep it respectful too.

[OrcaMatt]

Great topic! Think this is a good time to address these sort of issues, and hopefully the thread will be productive.

I think as a community we're doing ok, as these things go. It's not perfect, but then what is? I think we're pretty supportive as a group, perhaps to a fault sometimes. I love the enthusiasm and the sense that so many people are up to really interesting stuff. There's a good (generally) positive energy that we're all here to have fun with something we all enjoy.

TL;DR: Don't be afraid to be constructively critical out of fear of being branded 'Unsupportive'. The forum is going to get really boring if nobody wants to talk about actual tail making and advancing the state of the art collaboratively out of some vague notion of being A Tail Maker(tm) at some point in the future. You've made one tail, maybe, you're not a business yet: Ask yourself "Would I buy from me?"

So what's wrong?
* Constructive criticism. I think the tendency or instinct to be supportive means that people are afraid to be appropriately, constructively critical. I think people are sometimes afraid to say what they want to say for fear of being branded 'unsupportive'. I remember there was a period of a couple days on Yuku where it seemed every other post began with 'I don't mean to be rude but...' or 'Don't take this the wrong way but...' or other sort of qualified statements, to make being forthright more palatable (In one case, to somebody who frankly could have used the reality check). On the other hand, just because you like to 'tell it like it is' saying "I don't mean to be rude" doesn't make a rude statement not rude, but effective communication is beyond the scope.

* Tailmaking discussion/design sharing. After the Intellectual Property Debacle nobody seemed to want to talk about technique or design anymore, and that's a shame since that was kind of the coolest thing we had going, at least to me. A prominent tail maker starts getting really vocal about 'copying' and swinging really misinformed interpretations of intellectual property concepts and all the sudden everybody goes underground, and the forum gets a lot less interesting. I'll admit I'm guilty of this, too. I've got a bunch of ideas (mostly technique rather than design) I'm a little hesitant to talk about before I get at least a proof-of-concept done, but I'm going to try and force myself to discuss some of them, and I hope other people do the same and we can make this an actual resource for tail making again! I feel like we lost a lot of the spirit of collaborative discovery and innovation when the big latex thread went, and the whole IP debacle was kind of the nail in the coffin. Let's bring some of that spirit back on the new forum!

* Everyone Is A [Future] Tail Maker(tm). I think part of the problem about 'nobody wants to talk about what they do' is I'm getting the sense that to a lot of people 'becoming a professional tail maker' is a very short jump from 'making a tail', so people are hesitant to give away what might well become Invaluable Business Assets and Intellectual Property(tm) at some point in the future. Again, I'm guilty of this too (but I'm going to work on it), since I wouldn't mind selling a few tails on the side once I've reached an appropriate level with a reasonable body of work to show. Take a step back and look at your operation and "Hi I'm a new tail maker!" post from a detached perspective and ask yourself "Would I buy from me?" Cottage industry is great, but don't rush into things, or in all likelihood it's just going to end badly and hurt your chances and credibility for the future. I'm putting the cart before the horse by looking up incorporation and taxation for my state in the library, for curiosity and forward planning (when I know perfectly well I should relax and MAKE SOMETHING already :D)...other people seem to put the cart before the horse by announcing a half off sale without having anything much they're willing to show anybody. Take it slow and do it right, and you'll be much more successful!

* Tails are a luxury, not a necessity: Can we please limit the charity appeals to Facebook? It's a recent trend probably best left behind on Yuku or at least on people's own personal spaces.


What do we need?
* FAQ: I think we should maintain a stickied Frequently Asked Questions for tail making, tail buying, etc forum boards, that we can point people to when they have basic, oft-repeated questions (then delete the question thread to reduce clutter). I wouldn't mind helping with this.

*"Making Tails" / "Buying Tails"...boards? articles? Boards that contain articles? Not sure what the functional designation are, but I'd like to see these get a lot of use

* How about a wiki? Might displace "Making Tails" / "Buying Tails" though.

* Parallel tail maker list broken down by price range: Should help cut down on "I want a tail, this is my budget, where do I go?" questions

[Spindrift]

Hmm... your "what do we need" points can easily be added to the Tail Making Static Page: http://mernetwork.com/index/content.php?119-making-tails

(http://mernetwork.com/index/content.php?119-making-tails)I like a lot of your points, OrcaMatt. I would like to add another factor: I think a lot of the Intellectual Property Debate also has to do with not wanting to have the same tail as someone else though, like how Hannah had quite a few people "ripping off/copying/being heavily inspired by" her blue tail. And there is another recent argument on another thread regarding people who aren't active on the forum, but take ideas from it.

I do support the constructive criticism points a lot though, it's definitely a good thing to encourage.

Edit: I guess my post didn't really contribute much... I'll try and come up with something more substantial later.

[OrcaMatt]

Yeah, I think the static page has the potential to be a great resource, as long as we actively develop it. The FAQs though are going to address questions that are going to come up over and over again in the forum. Some of the answers can point to the static page, if that's where the answer is, but the index itself should probably stay in the forum so people can have a chance to see it before asking their question.

The Hannah tail is almost a special case in that it's distinctive enough that it's pretty clear when somebody is actively ripping it off. Not that many designs are THAT distinctive where claims can be as easily made. I think people just get precious about their designs on territorial grounds, and 'reserving' it by being the first there. I'd still like to see a general community standard where designs that pull directly from nature have no particular ownership. The first person to an orca tail (too late, it's out there) , for example, has no claim over the design just because they got it done first.

[AniaR]

Orca Matt I love EVERYTHING Youre saying, it's very well balanced and smart and I think you point out some of the key issues. I like your ideas and suggestions a lot, i want to build off them, just forgive me any typos today my laptop is fried and Im borrowing a very tiny with a very tiny keyboard notebook....

criticism- I really agree on this part. I find we dont do very well with a good middle. Everything either comes off as total butt kissing or total hate. I think I need to revise my "how to write a tail review" and if we had a FAQ I'd love for it to be included in it. People NEED to be able to say what they really think that is the whole point of a free open space like this. We also need to work harder on our own not to take things personally that obviously arent, and to try and keep our own personal grudges in perspective and critical (I know I need to work on that!)

tail making- I know a big issue with the latex tail is that a few established tail makers decided to make tails based on it and sell them right away and gave no credit to the tutorial author. Now, this goes both ways. the copying thing and attitude has to stop for me, there are only so many ways you can make a mermaid tail right now and only so many colours. I keep joking with Jesse all the time about how Im copying him because we both like the splash colours. it's not about the tail it's about who is wearing it. but I do think it's awfully unfair of people who are making a profit off raven or melbels tutorials that they aren't at LEAST giving them credit. When i see these tails they look exactly like the tutorial nothing different and when you ask these people "okay then, what did you do differently if you truly made it your own?" they dont have an answer for you. that makes me mad because it makes it IMPOSSIBLE for us to be a community. It just seems dishonest to me. Someone working their butt of to figure out through community help and their own ideas how to make a realistic tail and have it look similar to mertailor and then have him chew them out makes me mad too.
it's hard for me to really comment on the tail making because I dont make tails but perhaps in future if people put up tutorials they can add a disclaimer "please let me know if you use my tutorial or credit me". I provide free stock photos and while they are free they are still mine and my hard work so I always ask artists that use them to let me know and credit me :)
I would like to see tail making threads come back however :)

I agree with the everyone is a future tail maker paragraph you wrote. Not everyone needs to be a tail maker and not everyone needs to be a professional mermaid. there isn't that much money in it- Eric gives the illusion that he does really well but his family is well off and were able to invest in him. believe me, he doesn't have these humble beginnings where he was magically able to turn a profit. and dont forget all the people over the years who have helped him for free. as far as being a professional mermaid I AM POOR from trying to do it. Yes I make money, but even Hannah Fraser doesnt just do mermaiding alone as mentioned on mer yuku in another (deleted)thread. If you have these grand illusions of being able to support yourself as a mermaid it is VERY rare.

I think i started the fundraising fad because I unexpectedly was able to fund-raise so much money for my tail THROUGH A TOTALLY DIFFERENT COMMUNITY from people I have known for 8 years.

We really do need a FAQ it can link to all the things you say here, all the important posts by mods, and have slots for other things too. orcamatt would you be interested in drafting something up like that with me? it would be great to get started and even if we dont have something totally completed FAQs are always being added to and its just great to have for someone new to the forum. I think it would add a lot to the community. It could also include a link to the tail maker website that does have them broken down by price :) I think i may start a thread where we can keep track of all the professional mermaids, semi professional, and recreational ones who just have FB it would be cool to have a list included in the faq.

seasparkles, I never know when it's you lol because I keep looking for your old avatar! bahaha

[Winged Mermaid]

Just dropping in to say I love the way this conversation is going! Very constructive! I'll chime in with a bit more later on, but for now I just wanted to say I'd love to be able to add some more informational pages to the site. It's just a matter of working on them and getting all the information together. If anyone wants to help with that, I'd be very grateful! I actually have my hands full with a lot of this stuff for the site, most of it small things or behind the scenes.

I'm hoping to get up- lists of performing/for hire mermaids, a comprehensive "how to make a mermaid tail" page covering all the kinds of tails with as much information as we have available, a more comprehensive FAQ than what we have now, and more links on the links pages including recreational mermaid links.

Also I need to either make sticky topics with links to those articles or some kind of connect to the forum pages so they're more obvious.

[AniaR]

I'm hoping to get up- lists of performing/for hire mermaids
lol I all ready started in another thread ;)

[OrcaMatt]

Orca Matt I love EVERYTHING Youre saying, it's very well balanced and smart and I think you point out some of the key issues. I like your ideas and suggestions a lot, i want to build off them, just forgive me any typos today my laptop is fried and Im borrowing a very tiny with a very tiny keyboard notebook....Hi, thanks! Glad it at least made sense and I wasn't totally off-base. Sure, we can get together on the FAQ! I was going to start combing through Yuku and compiling an initial pool of questions, which seems like a good a place to start as any.



a comprehensive "how to make a mermaid tail" page covering all the kinds of tails with as much information as we have availableSince it's kind of sort of related, it would be great if we had something other than ALEX tail to put forth as the sort of 'default' realistic tail and sort of phase ALEX out. What would be amazing is if we could kick off another thread like the old "How to make a latex tail" and kind of get that community-driven thing going again developing an alternative technique. So, if anybody has anything.....!



Re: Tail maker list: Requirements/informal community standards for inclusion on the list?

[malinghi]

Hey, just wanted to let you guys know that while I haven't gotten around to reading this, I promise I will. Keep it up with the feedback.

[Princess Kae-Leah]

Speaking for myself personally, I LOVE how supportive and accepting the mer-community in general is! I know in other fandoms, old-timers tend to be snobbish and condescending toward newbies, yet here, I, a total newbie, have been treated no differently than folks live Raven and Raina who've been doing this a lot longer than I have. Older-timers like them have been so gracious in accepting my friend requests and responding to my questions when they have time, even when I'm acting like a total butt-kissing fangirl! I hope this fandom and community to continue to be one where all feel welcome and comfortable, whether you're an A-mer-lister or a nobody on the bottom of the mer-food chain.

[mikamer]

Obviously I have issues with certain people and their lack of understand about freedom of speech but I plan to do something about that.