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AniaR
07-29-2011, 09:43 AM
I wanted to take a moment and talk about us posting photos that aren't ours on here. I know it's pretty common for people to do this on the internet especially on forums and places like FB. I wanted to share with you a note I wrote a few months ago over some drama on my FB page from the perspective of someone who has had someone take their photos, but also as someone who has worked as a prof. model and photographer. I'm going to quote it and I'll add some more info at the end. A few parts if this quote have been omitted as they are no longer applicable, just for understanding sake...



Okay my fans I'm a bit upset today and I need to talk about something important. It's got nothing to do with the ocean, with reading, or any of the usual things I talk about but instead is about internet safety, rights, and privacy. I would appreciate it if you shared it around and considered it yourself.

This morning I had a frustrating experience with a person who felt entitled. This happens a lot on the internet. People don't understand or appreciate the consequences of their actions and believe no one can do anything about it. In short, I had a run in with an individual admin who ran a fan page (the page has several other admins who were not responsible for the actions of one) and felt entitled to re-post my images and when I said no decided to start drama and problems for me.

You may think that pretty innocent and I suppose that's part of the problem. Some people don't care if their images get reposted online so the people doing it assume no one cares. However in my case there are 3 major problems with reposting my work without my permission that I'd like to enlighten you to:

1) Copyright. Many of my images were made by myself, a photographer, a makeup artist, and sometimes an assistant. The photographers give me explicit permission where I can display the images they have created. Many donate the images to me hence why I do not sell them as prints. When images start getting reposted they are generally never credited to start and it increases the chances for art theft. It is not completely avoidable with it being the internet and all so you'll see watermarks on the images- but you can see why when people ask me about reposting I tell them no. It's not my permission to give.

Facebook recognizes this and in the TOS makes it very clear that this is a bannable offense. I can report any image of mine being used without my permission to have it removed and ban the person if they continue to do it. If they claim my work is actually theirs (do not credit etc) that is called art theft and is illegal and punishable by law as well as breaking Facebook TOS.

2) Children. My images feature children and ANYTIME you put images of children on the internet it's important to ALWAYS HAVE the direct permission of parents unless your images feature children in a way that they are unrecognizable. You never know the story a child has if they are adopted and can't be seen online, if parents are worried (with due cause) about child predators etc. So I do not take it lightly when a parent gives me permission to put an image of myself with their child online and I always give them the right to have it removed whenever they feel it should be. Those are their children, their prerogative. When a parent carefully gives me permission to post a photo of their child they know I am diligent in keeping their image within context and safe. When other groups start posting my images with children (this has not happened yet to my knowledge) they are VIOLATING THAT CHILD'S RIGHTS and the rights of their parents as well as exploiting them. Facebook and not surprisingly the law take this sort of thing very seriously.

3) Finally, context. I want my work to stay in its context of education. There are many different groups out there with an interest in what I do that is not on par with what I am actually doing. By keeping a tight rein on my images and materials I know my work is being kept in context and not being misused or misrepresented.
Now that I've made my 3 main points I want you to keep them in mind when I tell you how the rest of this played out. I contacted the person and told them it was nothing personal but here are all the reasons why I do not allow my work to be re-posted. They felt entitled to re-post because they thought they were doing me a favour in regards to promotion. Well, you can see how lifting my work and not crediting me or getting permission isn't exactly doing me any favours. If you want to promote me I sincerely appreciate it but the best way you can do that is grab a business card, post my link, or share my page.

Next I received what I felt was a threatening comment from the individual who then violated my privacy by posting a link to my not public profile page that I use for friends and families. You may not think it's a big deal but I have kept my two profiles separate on purpose and for my own prerogative. I rarely add people from the mer community on there because I'm quite capable of communicating with people through my Raina account and as a teacher it's even more important for me to be super aware of what I have online and who has access to it. Yes I have a FB personal page and it's locked up tighter than anything. This person still decided to go ahead and post it (I have deleted the comments) with their comments. Seconds later coincidentally my private page was reported for hosting inappropriate images and I was locked out of my profile. The thing with FB is they ask questions later they remove everything on default and only if you open up a help ticket can you get the matter resolved if you've been wrongfully targeted and that's what I did.

I am incredibly disappointed in the behaviour of this individual and they have since been banned from my page. I want to assure everyone they can no longer see anything and I will always be patrolling to be sure no one is reposting my work and I know all of you will help with that too. I did remove some images today at the request of a family and after seeing these actions I believe the family did the right thing in asking me to remove. It's sad, I love sharing what I do and showing what children experience with me but certainly not at the cost to their privacy. They may not have taken any of my images with children but if they're going to kick up such a fuss and cause so many problems over an old image I ask them not to use then it's clear they aren't to be trusted.

I urge you to consider my points and experience when you ask me about reposting my work or anyone else for that matter. Yes, you will run into my work in other places on the internet but it's all been posted with permission of all parties involved. I hope you will understand that my actions toward this person and in dealing with this situation are driven by the different people I have worked with, their families, and my respect for them- not that I'm some snobby mermaid who doesn't think she needs "promotion". I hope you'll share this note in the mer-communtiy so other people will read it and think twice. Thank you.



I wanted to add that on most websites whether you realize it or not it's Illegal to post images you didn't take. it may not seem like a big deal because everyone is doing it, but the fact you check yes on a TOS is enough to cause you legal troubles. A lot of people think you cant actually have anything legal happen to you on the internet but images are one of those niches like music where you actually can and even on my 8 years on deviantART I have seen HUGE things go down.
Some of the main reasons this is a bad thing outside of the ones I listed in my quote...
1. Some people WILL take credit for a work they didnt create, and while you may not, you're making the image more available for people to do so.
2. Some people will try to make money off the images, there has been huge cases of art theft being used as advertising on FB ad getting people into big time trouble, but people will go as far as trying to use the image to sell prints or put it on products.`Even if you arent doing this by spreading it around the internet you're helping people do it.

The best ways to get around this are...

1. Simply don't post anything that isn't yours
2. if you are posting something that isn't yours, either have permission , or be sure to link back to the original artist's website or link of the photo so people who wan to contact the artist or buy the image can.

Images have a watermark on them for a reason, please dont crop it out. if you ever did get charged and you try to use "I was just sharing it for interest sake" as an excuse, they'll point out right away you cut off the watermark. it's the same as cutting off an artist's signature.

Now some artists and models/photographers have no problem if you repost their work everywhere. But keep in mind, just because a specific model or mermaid loves having their images shared everywhere doesn't mean their photographer does. I've become acquaintances of one of Hannah Mermaid's photographers on DA. he's great and his body of work is amazing, and we ALWAYS report when people re-post/reupload his work of Hannah. People are constantly trying to sell it or re work it ever so slightly (there was a girl on MM who edited out Hanna's face and put her own in!) to try and pass it off as something original and make a buck.

Please keep this in mind when you post someone else's photos ANYWHERE on the web. It seems like such an innocent act but it can cause problems for so many people

OrcaMatt
07-29-2011, 10:42 AM
1. Simply don't post anything that isn't yoursYeah, I don't get why people feel the need to post stuff [here] that isn't theirs. We have a pretty well-defined scope of activity so just by definition of what's on-topic, there's not much that's going to be legit to post that the poster didn't take themselves. Other sites like this I've been on are sometimes pretty strict about what they'll let you upload to your album, on 'storage space' grounds as much as legal. I think cosplay.com only lets you upload photos of finished costumes, and then has some quota of 'non cosplay' photos you can have (I think 3), but it's been a while since I've been active there.

Show and tell is fun and all, but if I wanted to look at arbitrary pictures of mermaids and things, I'll just go to DA (and I do!).

Spindrift
07-29-2011, 11:29 AM
Yeah, another reason why there are no pictures of me in a tail around. I get paranoid. There was some article a few years back about some escort company using a Disney starlet's head shot photo in an advertisement. It was in the newspaper, published without getting her permission (not like she'd give it), or anyone recognizing who she was. Luckily someone reported it and she sued, but I don't feel that it is that uncommon of an occurrence.

AniaR
07-29-2011, 01:25 PM
it's not, I have seen crazy stuff just being on DA and have had to track down my own stuff being stolen and Ive had friends have their stuff used on FB add service illegally. I've seen big time corporations contact DA to have stuff removed etc. And all my stuff is copyrighted either through DA or my own copyright. I am trying to get in the habit of watermarking everything at least and that helps

LindseyLu
07-29-2011, 01:32 PM
Hmmm...ok, so I have an album in my profile called "my favorite mermaid pictures", but I didn't attempt to take credit for anything or do anything shady. Many of them have the persons website, logo, or name on the image... I just thought it would be nice to share them with other mermaid enthusiasts (yeah, like show and tell)... My day's gettin better every minute.

(I can't get on deviant art, my android kicks me off everytime I try and it's blocked on my work computer)

New York Mermaid
07-29-2011, 02:50 PM
I use Picasa to watermark my photos, I dont trust too many people on Facebook or Flickr, Especially Flickr- thats like stolen photo heaven. So i keep my profile private and unless your a FB or Flickr friend/contact your not going to be able to see my photos. I had that issue with one of the orca photos i took, somoene tried to pass it off as their own meanwhile my watermark was still on the animal and under the animal and of course the darker Watermark was cut off. thanks to friends, photo was taken off and I now know keep most of my photos private.

People should understand they shouldn't take whats theirs even if they mean well by promoting or other, permission should be asked and respect the owners wishes if they say no.

Winged Mermaid
07-29-2011, 02:52 PM
For legal reasons, rules of the site are that you either have permission to use those photos, you link directly from the source, or you list the source (by way of URL or hyperlink).

You can always go back and give credit and list the source to images you've already posted!

LindseyLu
07-29-2011, 02:57 PM
Album deleted, no longer my issue :)

AniaR
07-29-2011, 03:04 PM
sorry Lindsey I wasnt even thinking of you, I didnt mean for that to come off directed at you. <3 This was something I posted about on mer yuku too and I have a chip in my shoulder after someone stole my stuff ;)

They did bring up in the tester thread it's better for site storage too to have less images uploaded.

Princess Kae-Leah
07-29-2011, 04:59 PM
I would never post a picture of someone else without their permission! I think that that counts as an invasion of privacy.

Spindrift
07-29-2011, 09:52 PM
@LindseyLu: Awh, I liked that album. I think leaving it would have been fine, you could just add links where you got the pictures from in the comments!

@Everyone Else: Watermarking an image is only a preliminary (possibly pseudo) caution to take. I know that I for one, am pretty skilled at removing (most) watermarks. No doubt other people can too. Also, watermarking looks horrible on images used on a website. I've been looking into encrypting credit into the image file itself, but at that point you can only tell its yours if you see it in another location. Sites also do that "ban the right click" option, which is really annoying because sometimes I want to right-click for reasons other than stealing their images, like taking a look at why their code isn't displaying properly on my monitor.

OrcaMatt
07-29-2011, 09:59 PM
Sites also do that "ban the right click" option, which is really annoying because sometimes I want to right-click for reasons other than stealing their images, like taking a look at why their code isn't displaying properly on my monitor.Just disable Javascript and you'll have right-click back

AniaR
07-29-2011, 10:50 PM
watermarks dont have to ruin a photo I think it's important to have them and I wouldn't call it a psuedio precuation I'd call it neccesary if you are someone who sells prints or models, a watermark doesnt just mean putting your website link on the page. and they also dont have to shoot right across the image.

Spindrift
07-29-2011, 11:48 PM
@Orcamatt: I think flickr still has it disabled somehow (I have used that trick on a few sites though, but it's a hassle since I always have so many tabs open on several browsers and then have to reload) - I'll have to check it on my own laptop later, since I'm travelling at the moment and the computer I'm using isn't in English... It hasn't been that big of a deal though, so I'm not too worried about it.

@Raina: Very true - you have a very good point. It's just that most of the time when I do see it online, people do a pretty crappy job about it. These same people are also not that great at being website designers though, so idk. I do have a question: when you sell prints, does it still have a watermark on it? Is it the same copy you'll see online, or is it just like a stamp thing, in the corner? What's to stop people from just printing the exact photo from online if there is no difference?

merboy78xy
07-30-2011, 12:33 AM
Hey Guys... just read this thread after I put up a couple albums of pics that I enjoy... but agreed: they aren't my originals, nor do I remember where I picked them up on the way. I try not to post pics of random "civilians" that they've taken and repost them, I only use movie stills, etc. But if people feel strongly, I'll happily delete them right now. I only put them on here just because I like to share what I find beautiful...
SOooo... delete? or don't sweat it?

Spindrift
07-30-2011, 01:20 AM
@merboy78xy: You could probably just write where you got the image from. For example: "Credit: Still from the movie Splash (1984)". But I guess it would be a little awkward if everyone started posting their own Splash stills in their inspiration albums. So I guess I'll sit this one out. Maybe there can be a group photo thing, or something, although that'd probably be very messy.

Spindrift
07-30-2011, 01:23 AM
I would like to point out that I thought that this was a forum about mermaid/man costumes, and not just mer appreciation in general so I don't know where the admins will draw the line, or if they will.

AniaR
07-30-2011, 08:26 AM
@spin no watermark on prints ever :) stuff online is usually not only watermarked but screen resolution so if people try to print it comes out all pixelated. It should deter people from stealing but they figure they can make a bit of money before people notice.

Merboy I think the decision was made no because of storage limits

OrcaMatt
07-30-2011, 12:59 PM
I would like to point out that I thought that this was a forum about mermaid/man costumes, and not just mer appreciation in general so I don't know where the admins will draw the line, or if they will.Yeah, that's kind of what I was driving at too. There are enough places to look at arbitrary photos of mermaids and things, and there are enough places to post photos you like (Then you can link to in your signature or profile!) that aren't running up our storage quota.

merboy78xy
07-30-2011, 01:29 PM
very well... albums have been deleted

Mermaid Jewel
07-30-2011, 04:59 PM
For those on dA, just get into the habit of checking the "watermark" feature and unchecking the download feature. For others in general, it is easy to remove watermarks but I know it's harder to remove certain ones than others. Writing your name with © is really easy to remove, the beveled ones are harder. Just a tip, when I add watermarks I always put it over a vital part of the picture (so it can't be cropped off) and over something with a complicated pattern or place. That makes using the clone tool difficult and many people will be deterred from doing so, even though it's possible.

AniaR
07-30-2011, 06:41 PM
People who are going to steal are always going to steal but it doesn`t mean we give up trying to prevent :)

Odette
08-10-2011, 01:06 AM
i know some pictures have a feature where you try to copy it and it wont let you. now to figure out how they do that.....

AniaR
08-10-2011, 09:40 AM
yes that's usually and embedded code right on the website to disable right click. (doesnt stop people from screencapping) if you go to my website www.rainamermaid.com you'll see right click doesnt work