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Winged Mermaid
08-07-2012, 10:54 PM
I am rather curious WHY is no one posting or talking about this? I have only seen ONE person on all of FB talk about it, and that was my sister. Such a tragedy, and a hate crime.

Wisconsin Temple Shooting
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/06/us/wisconsin-temple-shooting/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/06/us/wisconsin-temple-shooting/index.html)


Oak Creek, Wisconsin (CNN) -- An Army veteran who neighbors say played in a far-right punk band was the lone shooter in the rampage at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin that killed six people and wounded four, according to information Monday from law enforcement authorities.

Wade Michael Page, 40, was shot to death by police responding to the Sunday morning attack in the Milwaukee suburb of Oak Creek, the community's chief of police told reporters.


Sunday's attack occurred 16 days after a gunman killed 12 people and wounded scores in a Colorado movie theater, reigniting the gun-control debate in the United States.
"These kinds of terrible and tragic events are happening with too much regularity for us not do some soul-searching and examine additional ways that we can prevent" such violence, President Barack Obama told reporters when asked about the Wisconsin shooting at a White House bill-signing ceremony.
However, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg criticized Obama and certain Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney for not advocating tougher laws to prevent dangerous people from obtaining guns.

"The fact that criminals, terrorists and other mentally ill people have access to guns is a national crisis," Bloomberg said during a visit to a Sikh community center in Queens.
Bernard Zapor -- the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives special agent in the investigation -- said Monday that the 9mm semiautomatic handgun with multiple ammunition magazines used by the attacker had been legally purchased.
Page bought the gun on July 28 at the Shooters Shop in West Allis, Wisconsin, and picked it up two days later, according to a law enforcement official. The suspect bought ammunition there and used the shop's range at some point, said the official.
The gunman shot people inside and outside the Sikh house of worship, including a police officer, Oak Creek Police Chief John Edwards said. Another police officer with a rifle then shot the gunman, who died at the scene.


While authorities said Page was the only gunman, they also had been looking for another man spotted at the crime scene Sunday who left before anyone could identify him. On Monday, the FBI's Paul Bresson said the man being sought had been "located, interviewed and cleared." Edwards said authorities were still in contact with that person.
According to Edwards and the FBI, authorities have received tips that Page might have links to the white supremacist movement, but nothing had been confirmed. "I don't want to use that term (white supremacist) until we want to put it out there for sure," Edwards said Monday night. "That's not something I can take back."
Authorities are following up on numerous leads and are still reviewing exterior videos of the temple, Edwards told CNN's "AC360." Investigators haven't identified a known motive, he said.
Two neighbors of Page identified him in photos that showed him playing in the far-right punk band "End Apathy," and the nephew of the slain president of the Sikh temple said the attacker had a 9/11 tattoo on his arm.
Teresa Carlson, the FBI special agent in charge of the investigation of Sunday's shooting, said no motive for the attack has been established. The FBI was looking into whether it was domestic terrorism, which is the use of violence for political or social gain, Carlson said.
"We are looking at ties to white supremacist groups," Carlson told a news conference, adding there was no active investigation of Page prior to Sunday's attack.
According to a man who described himself as an old Army buddy of Page's, the attacker talked about "racial holy war" when they served together in the 1990s. Christopher Robillard of Oregon, who said he lost contact with Page more than a decade ago, added that when Page would rant, "it would be about mostly any non-white person."
"He didn't seem like the type of person to go out and hurt people," Robillard said. "He would talk about it all the time, but it was more like he was waiting for the ... revolution to start."
Page, born on Veterans Day in 1971, joined the Army in 1992 and left the service in 1998, according to Army spokesman George Wright. His service was marked by "patterns of misconduct," though he received an honorable discharge, according to a Pentagon official.
The suspect did have a criminal record, Edwards said. A background check showed Page had separate convictions for DUI in Colorado in 1999 and for criminal mischief in Texas in 1994.




A federal law enforcement official told CNN that investigators interviewed a former girlfriend of Page. The woman said the pair had recently broken up, and she told investigators she had no indication Page planned such an attack. She provided the names of friends and associates of Page, the official said.
Page's family said it was "devastated by the horrific events," according to the Journal Sentinel newspaper.
"While there can be no words of comfort that will make sense of what happened that day, please be aware that our thoughts and prayers go out to all the victims and their families," the family said in a text message, according to the newspaper.
"We share in their grief for all who lost their lives that day and for those survivors, we hope for a speedy recovery. We have been cooperating and will continue to cooperate with the investigation in any way we can. Please respect our privacy as we try to deal with the tragic loss of life and family."
Obama noted Monday that the motive for attack had yet to be determined, but if it turns out to be based on the ethnicity of the worshipers, "I think the American people immediately recoil from those kinds of attitudes."
Because of their customary beards and turbans, Sikh men are often confused with Muslims, and they have been the targets of hate crimes since the 9/11 terrorist attacks on New York and Washington.
The six victims of Sunday's attack were identified by police as five men -- Sita Singh, 41; Ranjit Singh, 49; Satwant Singh Kaleka, 65; Prakash Singh, 39, and Suveg Singh, 84 -- and one woman, 41-year-old Paramjit Kaur.


Two other Sikh victims remained hospitalized in critical condition, while a third was treated and released, Edwards said.
Prayer vigils were held Monday night in the Milwaukee metropolitan area, with another scheduled for Tuesday evening.
The wounded police officer, identified as 51-year-old Lt. Brian Murphy, also was in critical condition, the police chief said. Edwards told CNN's "Erin Burnett OutFront" that Murphy had a "promising," but long, recovery ahead. The officer suffered nine gunshot wounds.

One of the dead, Prakash Singh, was a priest who recently immigrated to the United States with his wife and two young children, said Justice Singh Khalsa, a temple member since the 1990s.
Relatives of Kaleka, the president of the temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin, said that he was killed fighting the attacker.
"From what we understand, he basically fought to the very end and suffered gunshot wounds while trying to take down the gunman," said Kanwardeep Singh Kaleka, his nephew.
Kaleka said those inside the gurdwara, or Sikh house of worship, described the attacker as a bald white man, dressed in a white T-shirt and black pants and with the 9/11 tattoo on one arm, which "implies to me that there's some level of hate crime there."
Belief Blog: Who are Sikhs? (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/05/sikhs-tout-equality-service-to-others/)
While officials try to piece together what prompted the man to go on his shooting spree, America's Sikh community struggled to come to grips with the brutal attack.
A Sikh human rights group said it would give a $10,000 reward to Murphy, the police officer wounded in the attack.
"Our government must take urgent steps to educate the country about the Sikh population and help put an end to these horrific and deadly acts of violence," said a statement by the group, Sikhs for Justice.
Kaleka was horrified to have such violence occur at his place of worship, especially so soon after the 12 killings at a screening of the Batman movie "The Dark Knight Rises" in Aurora, Colorado.
"You're talking about Aurora one minute, and the next minute it's you and your family," Kaleka said.
Meanwhile in India, the birthplace of Sikhism, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said he was "shocked and saddened" by the shooting.
"That this senseless act of violence should be targeted at a place of religious worship is particularly painful," Singh, himself a Sikh, said.
The country's main Sikh political party, the Shiromani Akali Dal, held a demonstration in New Delhi's embassy district Monday to protest.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton spoke by phone with India's foreign minister, and U.S. Ambassador Nancy Powell met with Sikh community leaders in New Delhi and visited the largest Sikh temple in the city, said State Department spokesman Patrick Ventrell.
Sunday's attack occurred about 10:30 a.m., when temple members were reading scriptures and cooking food in preparation for the main Sunday service and community lunch. The temple has more than 350 members.
According to witnesses (http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/05/us/wisconsin-temple-shooting-scene/index.html), the gunman started shooting in the parking lot, killing at least one person. He then entered the temple and continued firing, they said. Police spent Sunday night searching the shooter's home in nearby Cudahy, a short distance from the temple.
Political leaders at the national, state and local level offered condolences for the killings and declared solidarity with the Sikh community.
Obama ordered U.S flags flown at half-staff through Friday "as a mark of respect for the victims of the senseless acts of violence."
In a statement Sunday, Obama said the United States had been "enriched" by Sikhs, and that his administration "will provide whatever support is necessary to the officials who are responding to this tragic shooting and moving forward with an investigation."
Romney, meanwhile, called the slayings "a senseless act of violence and a tragedy that should never befall any house of worship."


The United States is home to about 700,000 Sikhs, nearly all of Indian origin, according to the Sikh American Legal Defense and Education Fund. The men are easily identifiable by their beards and turbans, a tradition that's lasted for 500 years.

Dacora
08-07-2012, 11:39 PM
I heard something about that. Its sad when you cant worship your God/Goddess/Deity freely without someone hating you for what you believe.
I think if someone is going to own a gun they need to pass a test each year showing they are of sound mind. It would take quite a bit of resources but it would help things like this to stop happening..

Kanti
08-07-2012, 11:52 PM
Probably because it was a minority religion that no one's really heard about before.
That's a shame, too. I didn't even HEAR about this. News or facebook posts. That's pretty tragic.
Funny how the news is filled with chick-fil-a for 10 days straight at every hour on the hour and
something like this isn't being covered more thoroughly. Not to mention the colorado shooting is
being covered a whole lot as well and this incident only seems a couple steps away from being just
as bad.
When I google it all I see are news articles saying that the shooter was some sort of white supremacist.
If that's really true, that just goes to show how BAD our education system is when it comes to teaching
about other religions and ethnicities. We really need more widespread teachings about these sort of things
to get kids to accept and tolerate at an early age. Did anyone even know what a Skih was before this?
Probably not. Apparently they're one of the most peaceful religions as well, so what the hell would anyone
have against them? This just proves the lack of education is only causing an ignorance level that is actually
FATAL!

It also amuses me the people who automatically jump on the bandwagon to argue about the guns. You've
got people who are like "WE NEED TO OUTLAW GUNS! IF THERE WERE NO GUNS STUFF LIKE THIS
WOULDN'T HAPPEN!" well, yea, it would. You can't really regulate who gets a gun or not. You can try to
do a background check and make it harder to own one, but the only people you'll be stopping from getting
one are the regular people who don't really care. If someone wants a gun and is planning to murder someone,
chances are they're willing to get it offline, or under the table via "black market" causes. Not to mention
there's always a first for everyone. How's issuing a background check going to stop the guy who's going to
be doing his first murder? His record will probably be clean. The colorado shooter had a perfect record and
look what ended up happening.

On the other side you have the people who are saying "EVERYONE SHOULD OWN GUNS, THAT WAY PEOPLE
COULD'VE FOUGHT BACK" and, well, they're wrong too. People CAN own guns and carry them with the proper
lisencing and even then no one was there to stop that guy. Just because people can own guns doesn't mean
they're going to. Even moreso it doesn't mean they're going to carry it around with them and look to stop crime.
Maybe we should leave the guns out of this and go after the actual PROBLEMS that are making people even
WANT to do things like this.

Dacora
08-08-2012, 01:05 AM
It also amuses me the people who automatically jump on the bandwagon to argue about the guns. You've
got people who are like "WE NEED TO OUTLAW GUNS! IF THERE WERE NO GUNS STUFF LIKE THIS
WOULDN'T HAPPEN!" well, yea, it would. You can't really regulate who gets a gun or not. You can try to
do a background check and make it harder to own one, but the only people you'll be stopping from getting
one are the regular people who don't really care. If someone wants a gun and is planning to murder someone,
chances are they're willing to get it offline, or under the table via "black market" causes. Not to mention
there's always a first for everyone. How's issuing a background check going to stop the guy who's going to
be doing his first murder? His record will probably be clean. The colorado shooter had a perfect record and
look what ended up happening.

On the other side you have the people who are saying "EVERYONE SHOULD OWN GUNS, THAT WAY PEOPLE
COULD'VE FOUGHT BACK" and, well, they're wrong too. People CAN own guns and carry them with the proper
lisencing and even then no one was there to stop that guy. Just because people can own guns doesn't mean
they're going to. Even moreso it doesn't mean they're going to carry it around with them and look to stop crime.
Maybe we should leave the guns out of this and go after the actual PROBLEMS that are making people even
WANT to do things like this.


You know I like your answer to this better than mine. Education is a much better answer to all of it instead of more laws that more than likely will be broken.

Blondie
08-08-2012, 01:11 AM
I agree, it was on yahoo's front page for like three hours and it was gone...

Spindrift
08-08-2012, 01:23 AM
I saw this on the news while eating breakfast at a motel at 5:30 am. I'm not traveling with a computer on this leg of my trip so I haven't had a chance to make very big posts.

While I never knew anyone personally who followed that faith, I knew of them from when I lived overseas in Singapore. A lot of people that I knew from there commented on fb, so fear not! There are some circles this story is being circulated in.

While I strongly believe that to stamp out ignorance and attitudes like this the US needs to invest in a stronger and more cohesive educational program nationwide, I don't think it is something that will be implemented for quite a long while. Besides, there are some advantages that come with controlling the media and the educational system. And social movements can easily be induced to distract populations from other issues and actions the governement makes.

I am also not sure if just setting higher educational standards is really going to do much since there is no culture to attain it. The standards will just end up getting lower again because otherwise people will continue to fail and then there will be outrage on that. American culture is based on having good, hard workers, not smart thinkers. I don't think I've been in a country where that compliment has held more weight than in America. Other countries use "clever" or "ambitious", as their most esteemed compliment and stuff like that.

There is absolutely a lot of hate in America though. I'm not sure how that compares to the amount in other countries. When I was in DC just 2 months ago, some cyclist came at me on the Georgetown bridge and spat at my mother and then screamed "get out of the way, you fucking chink" to her. And we were clearly not in his path or he wouldn't have been able to cycle through. Just a few days ago I was in Chicago's airport and I sat my bag down on the bathroom counter. Some lady just walked right up to me, looked me in the eye, and knocked my bag over. She then shrugged, gave me a, "what are you going to do about it?" look, and walked away. She was like in her 40s. There was also another time in a different airport where someone proclaimed they didn't want to stand in line with a Chinese lady (who had 2 kids with her) for the bathroom and when it was the Chinese lady's turn, she pushed her and went into the stall herself. I was so pissed. I have a lot more stories like that - exchange students from China getting bullied at my college for their poor English and their looks... a lady of African American descent refused to allow my cousin and I to sit at the food court table we got to first (and were already sitting down at!), but called my two white friends "absolute angels" and invited them to sit down... in Boston... ugh. It is also not just Asians. I've seen and protested against this kind of treatment for Egyptians, Pacific Islanders, etc. And it wasn't like these incidents happened in small towns no one has heard of. No, America is not a friendly place.

So those are my not completely on topic thoughts.

Spindrift
08-08-2012, 01:30 AM
Also, some people on my fb are under the impression that it has been confirmed the shooter was involved with a white supremacist group. Is that true? I would have guessed that he acted alone.

Kanti
08-08-2012, 02:44 AM
Wow Spindrift that's fucking ridiculous. It's a shame we have such trash in our nation. I can get
a feel for people being iffy with each other's religions, morals, and cultures I guess, but your damn
ethnicity is something you don't have control over. No one chose to be black or asian so why the
hell do you have any reason to judge them for it? Not saying that judging over religion and other
said things is right either, but at least you have control over those things!
In Florida it's a lot different than in other states, since we have so many different races around here
I guess people are used to it. Or at least down here near Miami and Hialeah where a lot of Cubans
ended up landing. I never hear anyone getting into fights about race.
My cousin moved to North Carolina a couple years ago and he basically tells me about how different
it is up there. He says being black isn't so great but he says ANY form of Latin is basically grouped
into one group and they're call just called Mexicans. My cousin is part cuban as am I, so we speak
spanish but we pretty much look white.
Once he said he was speaking spanish on the phone and a little girl came up to him and was yelling
at him to shut up. He was speechless, which is probably a good thing, because I probably would have
smacked that brat upside the head and started a riot.

And yes, apparently the shooter was on a WATCH LIST for being a white supremacist. They said he
was notified as being dangerous because he was part of a couple neo-nazi/skinhead groups that were
known to be violent and he even had a band where the songs focused on hating other races.
But best of all, even though he was on the WATCH LIST he was able to buy a gun without anyone
even noticing. Wtf is the watch list for, then????
Serious facepalm.

ShyMer
08-08-2012, 09:35 AM
So after reading this thread I had some questions and wanted to research how the process works to get a handgun in Wisconsin.

The information I got this from (http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lrb/pubs/wb/00wb11.pdf) hasn't been updated since 2000, so I can't be sure it's entirely correct. Most of it seems to be the same from state to state, with the exceptions being time periods and whether or not they have to issue. There is a waiting period and a background check to obtain a handgun. There are four categories of persons ineligible to purchase a handgun- felons, minors, mentally ill, and persons under abuse or harassment injunctions. You can read for yourself on the pdf about what each of these things mean if you like.

There is nothing to keep someone from owning a firearm if they're on a watch list. To keep someone from owning firearms because they're suspected of belonging to a hate group or any other group would be going against their rights. It's terrible that this guy went out and shot people. He abused his rights to do something that resulted in innocent people's deaths. Under the section Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear Arms in the link I left at the top, it says "The people have the right to keep and bears arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose." It says where it comes from and whatever, you can follow up on that yourself.
So I guess unless they knew he was going to be shooting people, they can't keep him from purchasing a firearm. For all they knew, he wanted a gun for home defense. Wisconsin is a shall issue state for concealed carry permits by the way, which means if you qualify, you will get one.

As a side note, MD doesn't have to issue handguns if you pass your background check. They might just not to give you one if they feel like it. My husband worried about it a ton when he applied for his first handgun. He has Tourette Syndrome, so he worried that even though he isn't under that mentally ill category, they might see that he had Tourettes and choose not to issue him one. It's a pain, especially if you are one of those people they decide to deny for no reason, which they will.
Maybe if the Wisconsin temple shooter had lived in Maryland, his behavior might have caused him to be denied a firearm, but they still could have given him one. Also he could have just borrowed from someone if legally purchasing one didn't work out.

I don't want to seem like I don't care that he abused his rights to kill people, but at the same time I don't want my rights taken away because someone else made bad choices.


Also I feel like we could educate all we like in schools about this stuff, but people are going to choose for themselves to be jerks whether we like it or not. I've been teaching long enough to know that :/

Alveric
08-08-2012, 01:31 PM
Lack of education isn't to blame. It's lack of compassion and empathy.

America isn't the only place where this happens. In Nigeria gunmen broke in on a prayer meeting and killed nineteen Christians.

Kanti
08-08-2012, 02:36 PM
Well usually if you're introduced to things at a younger age you're a lot more accepting. Education
may not be the strongest point but it's realistically the best method, since we can't personally go barge
into people's houses and make sure the parents are telling their kids not to use racist terms or look
down on other ethnicities. Not to mention the classes about other religions, cultures, etc. are often
interesting to take as well, or at least they WILL be for children since they'll be surprised to see that
other people are different than them yet they won't be so set in their ways, so they won't flat out
reject it like older people. Children are very impressionable and it's a LOT easier to gauge their interest
when they're kids instead of waiting till they're teens.

Today, most of our world religion classes don't start until highschool, when kids already have set views
of the world, so instead of being interested in a different culture, most kids will think that they're "freaks"
or "weird" for being different. I had to deal with a bunch of bullshit when I took it in COLLEGE. Not to mention
the classes themselves are pathetic. We went over 20 different religions/cultures so quickly and briefly that
at the end of the day you don't even remember or CARE about them.

How can someone feel compassion and empathy if they don't know ANYTHING about the people?
This kid obviously didn't even know what a Sikh was because when he was attacking them he thought they were
a form of Muslim. If only he was educated on the matter that they're NOT. Well, furthermore, if only he was educated
on the subject that NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE BAD!

It reminds me of the people who hate snakes and whenever you see a snake they're like OMG KILL IT I HATE THOSE
GUYS! Most of the time, those people are ignorant as crap! They think every snake is venomous and they don't even
realize that snakes eat RATS and that if the snakes weren't around they'd be infested with rodents.

Education IS the best solution, because then you're giving the kids all the facts for THEM to make their own educated
choices. Maybe even then they'll realize their parents are racist for no reason!

Kanti
08-08-2012, 02:47 PM
And most of the time, you can go to a gunshow and WALK OUT the door with a new gun. Vendors are
SUPPOSED to issue background checks but they rarely do. They're more interested in making a sale
so most of the time they just let you walk out the door.
It's like when you buy contacts online. It is the LAW that the contact vendor has to receive a perscription
from the buyer's doctor as well as to speak with him to make sure the contacts won't destroy your eyes.
Contacts have to be regulated strictly since they come into direct contact with an ORGAN, your eyes. But
you can buy contacts from EBAY without anyone even knowing or caring.
Same with guns. You'd think there'd be more protection, but there's really not. Only major chains that sell
guns probably do background checks because they can afford to do so, but online places don't care,
ESPECIALLY if they're overseas.
My boyfriend just recently got an AK47 and there was no background check or anything. All they did was make
sure he was above 18 when they delivered it to him. So there's the security. A delivery man checking your ID
to make sure youre 18 before you're allowed to sign for it xD

I think the only regulations for guns are that you're NOT allowed to have a fully automatic gun and that in order
to carry a concealed gun you need to have a lisence. You're allowed to "open carry" or have a firearm in plain
sight, but it depends the state itself. Some states allow you to and some don't.

And I agree, ShyMer. I don't think it's fair when others have to suffer with the irresponsibility of one. I think the
gun laws are fine as they are. LOTS of people carry guns everyday normally. Hell, lots of people who own guns
are NORMAL people who only want a gun for defense. So why are you going to make laws that are only going to
hurt them? Someone who's planning on killing someone isn't going to care what laws he's breaking to get the
gun.

Alveric
08-08-2012, 03:36 PM
You don't need to know what someone believes to recognize them as a fellow human being who mustn't be abused. Institutions alone, even religious institutions (though they may try) cannot give one empathy and compassion. Also, it isn't just learned at home. Society at large, including friends, neighbors, community authority figures are also responsible.

Germany had one of the best education systems in the world in the early 20th Century, yet it failed miserably on this count. Goebbels had a PhD.

Kanti
08-08-2012, 04:48 PM
Whats the best way to recognize someone as a fellow human being? To be shown
that they are no different than you. To be shown that they have beliefs just like you
and regardless of how different they are still humans who have lives.

Hate stems from ignorance. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge.

Knowing what someone believes lets you BOTH communicate openly instead of just
shrugging them off and thinking they're alien. It also helps people DEFEND others
against their "friends, neighbors, and authority figures" that don't know any better.
If someone says "Muslims believe everyone who doesn't follow the Muslim religion should
die" to their friends and none of them know any better then they're PROBABLY going to
believe the person who said it, even though he's damn wrong.
If people actually knew about Muslims they'd know that was far from the truth and then
his friends would be able to tell him that he's wrong and that sort of thinking is ignorant.

I don't see how you can apply empathy without knowledge. Besides things like black history month
and such but those are pretty poor attempts at anything. Instead of grouping together
everyone and showing how they're equals you have a month dedicated to pointing out
how someone is different.

SilverSiren
08-08-2012, 06:21 PM
Hate stems from ignorance. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge.

100% Agree. The more you know, the better you can make a more informed decision and come to a logical opinion about a subject, religion, race, etc. Though I also have to agree with Alveric a little too, people need to be more compassionate, though that just brings me back to agreeing with you, that you can't really know compassion if you have never learned what it is to be compassionate... vicious circle. If your parents did nothing but swear, yell, hit, then did you learn compassion? Probably not. Though you do get the rare few who do come out fine despite that and of course the other way around, compassionate parents but the kid is mental anyway. Nature vs Nurture.

Mermaid Cascada
08-08-2012, 06:43 PM
I don't understand :( Why can't everyone get along? Seriously I think it is easier to love than to hate.

Alveric
08-08-2012, 09:47 PM
One can trust those doing the education too much. In Saudi Arabia children are taught terrible things about Jews. In Germany in the thirties the education system was corrupted to be the same way. Teachers are authority figures. They are also people and can be misled to mislead.

People are not the same. We need to respect despite the differences not pretend they don't exist.

Kanti
08-09-2012, 01:40 AM
Yep, compassion stems from knowledge. If you know more about something you're
probably going to develop more feelings for it than you would if you didn't know anything
about it.

Well then that's a bad education system xD You obviously need teachers who aren't
going to be bad when it comes to that sort of thing.
Problem is, our education is already sort of out the window so we need to improve on
that one anyway.

I'm just saying, if the teachers aren't the ones doing it, no one can really do it. We can't
rely on parents to suddenly outgrow old habits and you certainly can't convince your friends
if you don't know anything on the matter, nor will you even try to stand up for anyone else.
Media is balanced as well so you can't depend on them. Newschannels and popular shows are
at the mercy of their directors and CEOs. You have to grab the issue by the roots and get rid
of it before it can even mature.

There exist bad teachers, but it's better to have teachers and risk getting a few bad ones than
it is to just try and convince anyone to be compassionate.

And I think it's better to recognize historical events, not make some month dedicated to a certain
race. If you have black history month, where's white history month? Where's asian history month?
It should REALLY just be HISTORY month.
The only way to eliminate racism is to look past it. You're not pretending it doesn't exist, you know
they're "different" by just looking at them. The point is to not even care that they're a different color.

Alveric
08-09-2012, 11:32 AM
I'm not saying that education is useless, just that it's not enough and if that basic grounding in humanity isn't there, formal education won't help. This cannot be taught institutionally, though it can't hurt to try. Parents and communities may not always be reliable, but they're the best we have. Educational systems are too vulnerable to political interference. Teachers, like parents, are fallable human beings.

Empathy and compassion allows people to respect one another as humans first, even where there is disagreement or misunderstanding. That basic foundation is something upon which knowledge can build.

Alveric
08-09-2012, 11:34 AM
By the way, this is a good example of a civil debate. You've forced me to think, something for which I'm always grateful.

Mermaid Crystal
08-17-2012, 01:16 PM
I hate how people are still treating others bad! I mean we are people too!