Silicon tail making: Pro tips.

[Firemaid]

So here are some tips to save you so much money...

Fiberglass and bondo resin mix for molds. It is way cheaper that any mold making stuff you can buy. It's strong, It will last you years. They sell it everywhere so you don't have to order it online and wait if you mess it up. It's light so it's easy to move. It's super easy to work with.

Silicon does not stick to anything! It won't "set up if it is touching rubber. You can't just sandwich a rubber monfin it between two pieces of silicon.
you have to do something to make it stick. I have one magic word for you. lace.

Vaseline is amazing and cheap. Fiberglass will not stick to it. No need for releasing agents.

Coat your clay sculpture in a thin layer of spray paint before you pour your mold.

:)

[Mer_Adella]

plaster of paris works well for molds too and its at every hardware store too :)

so do you glue lace onto the monofin and then pour the silicone over the monfin to adhere it to the lace?

thanks for all the tips :D

[Kanti]

Thanks for the extra info Firemaid!
I actually never thought of using lace before, I'll have to try that out xD

[Delphine]

Hello! I'm working a tail, and am checking out some of the tips & how-tos. Firemaid, you're suggesting putting in lace or some kind of thing fabric embedded in between the silicone & rubber monofin? And the spray paint for clay molds, a primer or just regular spray paint? What is the advantage of coating the clay in spray paint?

[Kanti]

Hey Delphine! I assume you're new, welcome!
I think Firemaid basically meant that if you want the silicone to really adhere well to your monofin you can
make a sleeve for it out of lace or another thin fabric. This way, the silicone will soak into the lace and hold
on much better.
For the spray paint/clay mold, it's probably a good idea to add any sort of spraypaint (probably a primer would
be fine) to your clay piece to help prevent the clay from sticking to your mold when you pull it. I assume it's
just another layer to help separate the two pieces.

I hope this helps, but we'll have to wait till Firemaid responds to see if that's really what she meant xD

[Firemaid]

The paint helps the clay mold hold its shape/details under the weight of the fiberlass or whatever you are using. Clay doesn't stick to fiberglass at all with or with out paint. You lay the lace into wet silicon and allow it to dry. Lace will adhere to rubber. Silicon will not.

[hay_31]

Hi All,
Thanks for the info there Firemaid. I am new to the forum and my background is in makeup including SPFX molding/casting/latex/silicon. Below are my plans for a full tail (as in the past I have made wrap around latex tails for posing only)

The Fin: cast a resin basic fin. This will be attached to a plate that go under the souls of my feet when at the toe end it extends out into a shorter basic fin shape. I will probably make it out of epoxy resin, resonably thick.

Sculpt: the shape of the tail out of clay and do a 2 piece mold of this using forton and fibreglass. Close this, possibly bolt it so its tight. insert the resin piece so the basic tail shape is inside the mold and the foot plate above. pour silicon (translucent with some colour) into the mold and set it. Open the mold and paint.

Sculpt: small areas in medium sized slightly spaced scales, mold them in forton and pour latex. These will be latex scale pieces that I will later attach with latex to the neoprene skin.

Measure: myself from just under my belly button to toe tips, make the pattern, cut neoprene and stitch. had stitch in the zip down the middle of the back.

Attach silicon tail to neoprene body, drill holes just above the fin on the resin plate then stitch neoprene and plate together, attaching the fin to the end. Then attach latex scales section by section, will also make silicon fins to run up each side of the zip to hide the zipper. then paint the bulk of the tail in silver and indigo. May also make a latex flap around the waist in skin tone so it blends and can be glued if need be.

[hay_31]

For molding so clay doesnt stick to plaster (or in my case forton) I use varnish spray its colourless so it wont effect anything colour-wise at any point in the furture. You can also use plaster when molding, 'Ultracal' plaster is the best, it is a stone based plaster and will record the detail of your work better then plaster of paris, it is also stronger. You should also do three layers of plastering when molding, Ist layer plaster is the impression layer should be a slightly runny mix to get the best detail does take longer to set though, 2nd layer plaster and hession (this helps to prevent cracking) 3rd layer plaster - sealing layer. Instead of doing large molds for scales I am doing smaller sections letting them set so I will continuously cast and attach from waist to fin.

[Firemaid]

Instead of doing large molds for scales I am doing smaller sections letting them set so I will continuously cast and attach from waist to fin.

So, that was my original thought and I totally regret it. I am going to make a large mold for scales next time.

[Delphine]

Wow, thanks for the replies & clarification, Kanti, Firemaid, & Hay! Yes Kanti, I'm new here & thanks for the welcome. I'm trying to soak all this info in, haha.. some more things to add to my Get list, & some for the Already Haves (phew!). Guess I'll be continually researching..

[Firemaid]

7848

So this is a cute shot of my work station!
I should have 3 finished tails by february.
Please ask me anything about tail making.

[Spindrift]

@Firemaid: That looks really cool! I wish I could watch you work. :)

[Taz]

Completely agree and embrace sharing ideas.
Thank you for your tips, greatly appreciated.

I'm curious about resin and fiberglass for making a mold. Do you mean to use the fiberglass cloth layered into the resin? I'm curious how well that picks up detail from a sculpt (clay? foam? I thought resin had an appetite for eating foam), as the cloth isn't exactly the most glamorous or precise material, especially if you've spent countless hours perfecting a scale or fluke sculpt.

In that little photo you posted, the scales look translucent! Am I seeing things? Thats gorgeous!

[Firemaid]

It's 50/50 fiberglass resin and bondo, you can tap the cloth in for strength. I did, but it's not necessary. It picks up detail wonderfully from a clay sculpt. It will melt foam. The scales are translucent.
<3

[Taz]

How did you get them translucent? The only way I can figure to do it with latex is to splurge on the clear casting latex, but that stuff is pricey!! Eeep! And the regular stuff cures so cloudy.

[Firemaid]

It's Dragon Skin 10

[Taz]

Oh la la. Thank you!

[LaNyah]

I see this is an older thread, but the idea of using more common products when possible, appeals to me. I found this taxidermy site talking about using resin and bondo for mold-making. They had some great ideas and pointers about this.

http://www.taxidermy.net/forums/MoldingArticles/06/0628D8434B.html

[SomethingFishy]

Wait... so the 50/50 bondo+fiberglass thing can be used without the fiberglas cloth stuff?

[Mizuko]

I think just using fibreglass would work ok, thats what I'm doing for my molds :) it will require more layers, but still captures the details of the mold really well. I was recommended using a thin fibreglass suitable for surfboards for the first three/four layers to capture the details, and then cheeper/thicker sheets just to build up the strength of the mold.

[Mermaid Star]

I was actually told to use fiberglass and bondo mix for my mold by a SFX artist that I work with. He says it will be the best, strongest and lightest mold you will ever make. I trust him. I would do it, but I had already bought my ultracal 30 for my remaining molds

[Mizuko]

Silicon does not stick to anything! It won't "set up if it is touching rubber. You can't just sandwich a rubber monfin it between two pieces of silicon.
you have to do something to make it stick. I have one magic word for you. lace.

I have a question regarding sticking lace/mesh to the monofin to help it stick. I have a competitor monofin, which is fibreglass, and I'm assuming it will be no difference with the silicone not sticking to it. But what glue would you recommend using to stick the lace to the monofin? Would there be any issues with the type of glue which would stop the silicone from curing around the monofin?
I'm getting scared of making my fluke and failing at it because I've missed an important detail or material! XD

[Mermaid Adriel]

Thank you very much for the info :)