Sad, sad day today

[Morticia Mermaid]

Today is an extremely sad day. I found out today that a rare marine creature was killed last night/yesterday. For those who visit Edmunds Water Park in Washington, I am sorry to say there is one Giant Pacific Octopus you will no longer be seeing there. Those who have been to Edmunds know that it is essentially an underwater petting zoo. The animals there have gotten used to human activity due to scuba divers. The saddest part, the octopus was a female, and she was sitting on a clutch of eggs. Those who understand octopi behavior, know that she would not have left no matter the danger. She was essentially a sitting duck. And now that the mother is not there to protect the eggs, the eggs are basically free game to any scavengers that come along.

I can understand killing for survival eating, but the person who killed her did it for sport. This poor creature is not the first to be killed by him. He has a photo of a snake with a firework jammed down its throat on his Facebook. And also makes comment about how he had killed several rabbits for no greater purpose than to test the new scope on his gun. People like this make me disappointed in humanity.
7389
This is the person responsible, and you can see the poor creature in the bed of his truck.
7390
This guys name is Dylan Mayer, he lives in Maple Valley, Washington. I ask that anyone along the west coast spreads his name and photo around so that any dive shop who sees it can ban him from their shop. There are already several groups on Facebook committed to this purpose, but I felt that the Mer community needed to know that a marine friend had been killed.

Perhaps we can all band together and try to end the killing of Giant Pacific Octopi all together, they are becoming more and more rare to see. We need to fight this tragedy.

[MerAnthony]

OMG!!! :jawdrop:WOW!!! That is so needless and mean and cruel.I wonder if he would like it if the shoe was on the other foot. I think not.

[Mermaid Melusinah]

Authorities should absolutely be contacted. A water park is protected grounds and that species is protected as well i believe. The park itself needs to be contacted. the visual evidence needs to fall into the proper hands.

[Morticia Mermaid]

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[Elle]

:'( it's terrible what some people are capable of, it's this sort of behaviour that the world need without. did they take the eggs into captivity so that they hatch or have they been left alone?

[Morticia Mermaid]

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[Elle]

:(

[Morticia Mermaid]

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[Elle]

so potentially 100,000 octopi have died :( that's soooo sad :(

[babsannee]

Close to tears here on the east coast. :(

[MerAnthony]

Even though we call ourselves human, how can a person be called human when they do things so cruel an inhumain? To kill life needlessly without remorse. For people to be like this it saddens me to call myself human. I myself don't understand why this came to pass, but it sickens me to the core. I do not understand and most likely never will.

[AniaR]

Why are people even allowed to hunt in that area?

Did you find this on Fb? It be great if there were links to report animal cruelty images. They usually are good about taking that stuff down.

[Kanti]

Wow that's really lame.
And yea that's weird, if it was a park then why is anyone allowed to fish there? Maybe since it's not
a conservation area they can't do anything? Well it's their property so they can, I'm sure.

I hope he gets fined nasty or something. That thing isn't a fish, octopi are pretty sensitive and a mother
is pretty damn valuable too.

What a damn shame too. I'd kill to get to dive with an octopus! This guy obviously doesn't get it.

[Linedog]

Hello all, I just stumbled on to this great forum while I was doing a Google search for Dylan Mayer. I am a diver in the Seattle area, I have dove where the GPO (giant pacific octopus) was killed. KOMO news is doing a short story about this Jacknob at 11 tonight. I feel the need to set a few things straight, the GPO was killed at a dive site called Cove 2, on Alki beach across from the Space needle. The area is a public access area, unfortunately fishing is allowed there, there are also about 75 to 150 divers there each weekend. It is a very popular dive site, very much like a underwater petting zoo. The GPO that Dylan killed was a male, not a female, so no eggs were lost thankfully. Every dive shop and dive boat in Washington state has banned this Asshat and his buddie diver. I was able to read his FB page before he ran scared and locked it down, he also removed all of his posts on a local dive shops page. Sorry for the odd introduction, but I though you all might like to know.
Thanks
Linedog.

[Elle]

No it was a female, http://www.raptureofthedeep.net/alkigpo
Here you can see all the eggs and what these men did. It was cruel and heartless. I'd like to see how they'd feel if they were treated like this

From this page;
"Several local divers including Bob B. and Mark S. confronted the captors and and began asking questions. The individuals clearly did not care that they had just taken a beautiful octopus from one of the most popular dive sites in the state of Washington, and even more disturbingly they admitted that this particular specimen was currently protecting her eggs. GPOs deposit approximately 50,000-100,000 eggs on the ceiling of their den and protect them without leaving for the 6 month gestation period. If a mother is taken, the eggs will not survive to hatch and an entire potential generation of future octopus are lost."

[Mermaid Saphira]

:(

[Sherl]

I don't understand how on earth a guy like him was able to walk in like that and make off with the GPO - what about security?? Investigations are still going on, I hope? I want to see that murderer brought to justice!!!! :mad:

[michellerobison]

I don't understand why he would do that? I wish the other two would have struggled to get it away from him and back in the water..... I don't understand how someone can sit there and watch any creature writhe and die out of it's environment. I say that everytime I see people fishing and throwing fish along the shore to slowly die or even worse, descale and filet them( clean them) while they're still alive...
Are they doing somethig about it?
Even if he took the FB page down, it can be brought back ,FB can retrieve it and should!

[michellerobison]

Found his FB page, he took all the piccies down But the timeline piccie still shows him loading the GPO (poor octopus) in the back of his pick up.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Northwest-Diving-Institute/179211822166510#!/dylan.mayer.37

[Capt Nemo]

Only one thing, that octopus was dead anyway! She'd die after the eggs hatch.

The question is how long ago did she lay them? If she just laid them then the eggs are toast, but if there was maybe a month left before hatching, they might survive. This should be what divers should focus on, protecting those eggs! True, they can't stand guard 24 hours like mom could, but they can take steps to prevent predators from gaining access to the nest. It's a good chance to learn something here!

What he did was stupid, but not something that warrants the abuse that everyone wants to hurl at him.

[Kanti]

That's just how the world is. Not everyone really cares or knows about certain things. It sucks that
it happened but at least maybe if this story blows up enough it can be an example to other

I sent this story idea to CNN, Fox News, and BBC news. I hope one of them will cover it.

[Kanti]

@Capt Nemo - that is true. I wonder if there are any efforts being made to actually protect the eggs?
I don't think the focus should really be to blame the Dylan guy for anything, he may have not even known
what it is that he was doing, I think it's just important to get the message around so people actually realize
that octopi are more delicate and if you come across a female you certainly shouldn't kill it.
I don't think there will be much left if there wasn't already something put in place to protect the eggs. I'm sure
there are a lot of fish around that area and eggs probably look good to them.

[Elle]

@Kanti, unfortunately Dylan and his mate where aware that it was female and that she was protecting her eggs.

[Triton-Mahtlinnie]

Welp, the story's hit the Seattle Times :

http://seattletimes.com/html/fieldnotes/2019591887_octopus_kill_at_alki_sparks_outrage_not _illegalbut_should_it_be.html

[Linedog]

If you have a spare 2 hours you can read the thread from our local dive community, http://www.nwdiveclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19454
I am Linedog on that forum also, thank you for spreading the word. Our final goal is to establish no underwater take zones, the surface fishermen can carry on, but as far as divers are concerned, no hunting in established recreational dive sites. Once again, thank you for your time.
Linedog

[lasserine]

Looks like msnbc also carried it. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/49663940

[Capt Nemo]

Reading on the linked forum, it appears he bent his butt and had to spend 8 hours in deco! At a nice $5-10K per ride! Awwwww!

And he had nothing left to kill the octo with as both he and his buddy lost their knives in the fight.

:lol:

[Ashe]

There are just no words to describe my anger and frustration right now. Shoving fireworks into a snake's throat?! Shooting many rabbits to test a gun?! Destroying one of the most beautiful creatures of the deep?!?! Hunting and killing in that diving area shouldn't be allowed whatsoever. In fact, screw all those designated hunting ranges and shooting circuses! How can we call ourselves humans- plus bestowing many other "glorious" names- when some of us can do things that are so cruel and inhuman? He has no respect or a touch of sympathy for any living creature except for his rotten self. Sorry for my rant, but things like this can take such a hard toll on a person like me. I'm out. :mad:

[Linedog]

Just an update, this whole event now has lawyers involved, so we all know what that means. People are clamming up, lawyers are looking to see who they can squeeze the most money out of and the thread has been locked. For your own safety and the safety of the pod, I would suggest that this thread be locked or at least let it die away.
Thanks,
Linedog.

[Rain]

o.o Is this the same guy? http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/blog/40201/divers+capture+of+a+beloved+giant+pacific+octopus+ sparks+outrage/ The name is a little different though, but that may be from misinformation.

[Elle]

Yeah it's the same guy, his mum has the right last name. I'm familiar with the photos

[Rain]

:< Ohh I see. That's unfortunate. I was actually on yahoo a few minutes ago and happened to see it, then I remembered there was a thread talking about something like this here.

[Mermaid Margarete]

As a Washingtonian - I'm really sad!

[spottedcatfish]

This is terrible. He should get a hefty fine. Isn't hunting illegal in Marine protected areas?

Edit: I see that this is not an MPA... Well I hope it becomes one, before any other marine life is killed and extracted from the sea for an "art project".

[MerAnthony]

I was reading just the other day that he and his family and getting threats on there lives and he has been banned from dive shops all over the place for what he has done.

[Mermaid Allie]

Some people should have never been born.

[Odette]

Thats messed up.this happens way too often everywhere. Im glad it has been reported.

[The Young Mermaid]

I think he his just an unresponsible teenager. How many teen guys do you know that care about protected animals? Not very many. What he did was wrong because it was a protected spieces. But I don't think he should go to prison. He should be slapped with a fine. I don't have anything against people hunting.... as long as the animals are not dieing out.

[Morticia Mermaid]

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[Ashe]

Is he really a teenager? I thought he was an adult, dang... :(

[Morticia Mermaid]

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[SeaGlass Siren]

i dont want to live on this planet anymore.

[Coradion]

It's an octopus, people kill them. I train them at the Waikiki Aquarium, and I also hunt them. People eat marine organisms, it's a huge industry. Hunting octopus as a sport is pretty common, just like all sport fishing. They are rather delicious, I go out and spearfish or hunt tako (octopus) whenever I get a chance. Going into a marine protected area of prohibited fishing zone is a different story, if you're going to be mad, be mad about that.

If you follow fishing rules and guidelines there shouldn't be a problem. A well managed fishery is one where you take below the anticipated maximum sustainable yield, report your catch accurately, and follow the rules and regulations. Octopi die in the ocean while guarding their eggs all the time and will often die before they even get a chance to hatch. It's happened to my octos at the aquarium before. If you think that one clutch of eggs will actually produce 100,000 adult animals one day, you should take a biology course. Unless you're captive breeding with high success rates the majority of those animals will die before reaching sexual maturity.

Some people are assholes, but if you want to direct any kind of energy into this specific incident you should research the fishing laws of the area. Do you know all of the local regulations? Get informed and educate others as a preventative measure for future incidences. Volunteer at an aquarium or in an outreach program. Start working on a project and breeding GPO's as a mariculture experiment. Raging at the internet about a guy who killed one octopus isn't going to help the ocean.

[Morticia Mermaid]

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[Coradion]

Well, it only takes one person to kill a GPO to make it a platform for why it should be a MPA. If he hunted it in an approved zone, during season, used the right gear and it was the right size then what he did was legal. If people think it shouldn't be a legal action in the future then they should inform their legislators. I'm not defending the guy, but in this one case of him killing this specific GPO he may have the law on his side. He might be persecuted for other actions if there's proof.

Until you know what he did with the octopus you can't say he did or did not hunt it for meat. Drying octopus or putting it in a cement mixer is a common prep method. When I dry octopus it's put on a clothing hanger on a tree. I doubt he ate it, but I don't think this is a case where it's good to focus on what ifs.

Maybe someone from Mernetwork should right a letter to local legislators about why they think this action was wrong and how it would be beneficial to the species or tourism, etc to make part of the sound a MPA. If you can find scientific data that supports your claims maybe on Google Scholar or something it might have some weight. You can talk all day about how he's a scumbag or you can direct all that energy to making a difference :). I hear politicians really like money, and if this hurts possible tourism to the area then maybe there would be some action. How many local dive shops rent gear or take people out to the sound? Maybe they have some financial resources they can throw behind an effort to make it a protected zone.

[Morticia Mermaid]

. (http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/11/18/2371899/fish-and-wildlife-commission-considers.html)

[Merrow Fair Isle]

people like this make me physically ill.

[Coradion]

I'd again like to make it clear, he didn't actually do anything wrong. To some people they found a moral issue with it, but the law is on his side. He shot an octopus in an approved fishing ground using legal equipment.

[Morticia Mermaid]

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[The Young Mermaid]

Coradion:
I couldn't agree more with what you said.

Mermaid Lexia:
It is very different to shoot something in the wild than in a zoo. A zoo is owned by someone. This animal was not owned by anyone.

[Morticia Mermaid]

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[Coradion]

Well, this is another big issue. Without human interaction the animals in the cove would have run. Without human intervention the octopus probably would've run or hid as well. Humans taming wild animals has directly and indirectly lead to their deaths in these cases. If you really are for ocean conservation you would probably lobby that it should be a Marine Protected Area where a strict distance between humans and animals was maintained. It only takes one person to exploit a trained animal as was proven by the death of this GPO. There will always be one person who will do this, if the animals behave naturally their chances of surviving a human encounter are much greater. A lot of the time the best policy is hands off, observe and enjoy them from a respectful difference. Personally I think watching a wild animal is a lot more fun than a tame one. Encountering wild orcas as opposed to a Seaworld orca is a completely different experience. People playing with these octopi is eliminating the fear they SHOULD have at seeing us. What matters more, that you be able to play with a tame octopus or that the animal has the best chance possible at surviving and completing its life cycle?

[Morticia Mermaid]

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[Coradion]

I'm not twisting what you're saying... At no point have I quoted you. I'm just pointing out that there's a lot to consider and if you're going to take this incident to heart there are a lot more angles.

[Ayla of Duluth]

lemme just jump in and say something.
I don't think what he did was the equivalent of going to a petting zoo and killing one of the animals. It has been stated in many articles that what he did was technically legal, but shooting an animal at the petting zoo is not legal at all.
I agree with Coradion in this argument.

[Coradion]

I want to make it clear I don't want this to be an argument, I just want to bring up that there are a lot of ways to look at this incident and before you take a stance or take it to heart think about all of them.

[Morticia Mermaid]

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[Ashe]

I hope you do stay Lexia! I would hate to see another mer leave because of some miscommunications and opinions. :( And you're not a liar! I have read over this thread multiple times and I too, take a neutral standing at this point. Both of you are right in a sense! There are ethics to this, things that are technically legal, and things that just aren't right. I don't really want to get into this, but maybe letting the thread die down a bit could help? And I mean the thread, not the issue here. I see reason with both of what you and Coradion say, but I think you should totally go for doing all you can to help the Giant Octopuses! I may be young, but I'm right up there with you :)
~Kalani >O"

[Coradion]

I don't know which people you're talking about. I have made no accusations and that you can find an accusation in what I've written may be why you feel attacked. I have not called you a liar, I am not mad or angry about anything. What I've been trying to do is offer different viewpoints based on my personal experiences in the field. I work at an Aquarium which focuses on marine life conservation.

If you feel as though you're being treated like you don't know what you're talking about you might be reading into it too much. You said earlier that you felt your words were being twisted, I'm not doing that. If you add a :) to the end of my sentences that I've written it'd be more indicative of my actual tone. Discussion is about a topic, arguments are what get personal. I said I am not having an argument. I have no personal problem with anyone on this site, if you decide leaving is what's best for you then do what will ultimately make you happy. Please do go back and reread what I've written and just add a :) to the end of everything.

If this topic continues to stray from pertaining to the original post however I will remove myself from this thread as I don't wish to involve myself in interpersonal disagreements.

[Merrow Fair Isle]

7983

Let's just hug it out.

[SeaGlass Siren]

...ALEX? MARTY? IS THAT YOU?

[Mermaid Celissa]

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/7500000/hugs-anyone-penguins-7507650-1024-768.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hug

[Merman Dan]

On a happier note...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2tZMhoq0nI

And there's one giant pacific octopus they'll never get, as I wear it proudly on my arm:
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6097/6363607585_ee412ce758.jpg

In memory of Aurora (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7502647/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/aging-octopus-finally-mom/) .

[Capt Nemo]

Just heard that the local DNR is proposing a measure to prohibit taking any game at that site and a few others!

[Morticia Mermaid]

.

[Coradion]

Yeah... I'm gonna give up on this one. Going from 0 to freaked out, and why are you accusing me and twisting my words, to maybe I should just leave this site just doesn't make sense. If you want a viewpoint to have some kind of validity, avoid letting it get personal. If you did that at a meeting with a policy making group or even with a couple researchers they would take you up on your offer to give up on the subject and leave. I am not a fan of being told I'm accusing people and twisting their words, it's a board. Anyone can see what was and was not said. This topic was derailed as soon as it was taken personally and I don't want to be villainized.

[Morticia Mermaid]

-.- ok, seriously. I'm done.

[AniaR]

I don't understand @_@ missing posts?

I think it would be nice if humans could stay out of the ocean entirely for a few years to let it bounce back >.> I recently got to preview a documentary coming out on Earth Day called "Revolution". In the documentary they cited a study done at one of my local universities well known for it's marine science department. Quoted from the book I am currently reading by the director/producer of the film Save the Humans [...]"a UN report based on a study from Dalhousie University in Halifax [that] predicted the collapse of every fishery on the planet by 2048 [if we continue business as usual]"... Essentially, without drastic drastic change we are heading for total collapse. One of the points the author/director made when we finished the screening of his documentary that produced some staggering statistics and information was that every fight is now important. Little things that we wouldn't normally think would make a difference, are infact creating huge domino effects. He urged us to fight for every form of conservation as much as we could. Realistically we can't stop/save it all, but we can save some and it's worth trying for especially with 2048 hanging over our head. There's another great part in his book where he explains if people were devastating the forests to the point we are the oceans, because everyone could actually see what was happening, we'd stop it right away. And I agree with that.

Coradion, I see your points, and I think they're valid. My Dad's a hunter and people in this community are constantly pressuring me to be a vegetarian and that's just not something I can do for health reasons, but I also don't think a person has to be a good person by being a vegetarian either. My dad taught me to respect nature and what it gives us, to not be wasteful, and to take only what you need. I think the very reason I am an activist at all has a lot to do with him. So yeah, if the guy was legally hunting an octopus in a legal area, on paper, I'm cool with that. However, personally, after being so awakened to the status of our oceans, I'm starting to lean more toward we need to get out of the way all together. An octopus is a top predator in it's food chain, a clear marker of biodiversity, and a good indicator of ocean acidification levels as well. So on paper, I see your point, the guy didn't do anything wrong. In reality though, I think hunting for sport of any creature just needs to be done away with. We're shooting ourselves in the foot. Now, even if he hunted it to eat it, I'm fairly certain there's lots of other things he could eat with a hell of a lot less effort and impact...
edit: it's also a waste I think if she was killed before her eggs hatched, because then it's not just killing the one octopus, you're preventing the others from being born too. Even though she'd die after anyway

[Coradion]

Any scientist who has done actual research will tell you a film where a director/producer is doing the talking is usually one we avoid. Like even videos our University has produced that we've watched in classes we found a lot of problems with. A lot of fisheries are really well regulated like the Hawai'i pelagic/deep sea fleet. Most fisheries won't collapse, if you check out Hawai'i Seafood they all say pretty much the same thing. Capture fisheries over the last decade have remained at something like 95 million tons a year while aquaculture has been skyrocketing to match those values. Until there's an actual study done we can't assume anything about the state of GPOs. Even if you have a lot of observation based evidence until it's published it's hard to convince anyone something is happening. Even with hard evidence it can be next to impossible to sway legislators. It sucks, but that's the nature of the game :( if you hunt or fish responsibly at what is believed to be the L50 marks and follow the rules and regulations a lot of the time the work has already been done in determining just how much is an acceptable amount to take and at what sizes. The issue is rarely subsistence fisheries, individuals and communities don't usually have much of an impact that natural balances can't correct, trouble happens when commercial industries come in.

[AniaR]

Most fisheries won't collapse, if you check out Hawai'i Seafood they all say pretty much the same thing

You have nothing to support that, you should actually look up the study from Dalhousie I mentioned. I think the biggest lie we tell ourselves is that nature can correct the mess we've made. :/ I just linked a Ted Talk on this actually in another thread.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS-sfUHJaXI

I see your points about the octopus, but years of studying these topics and actual experience have me disagreeing with you on that latest post. Keep in mind the study I linked was not done for the sake of a documentary or book, they simply referenced it.

[Coradion]

I have worked for Hawai'i Seafood, NOAA, and JIMAR, I have plenty to support my statement. If I posted a graph though showing things like L50 Repro rates, MSY, CPU Effort or Efficiency, or some kind of pertinent life history data I don't think anyone here would be able to interpret the information, not that I doubt anyone's intelligence, you just have to be trained to do it. Same way I can't curl hair or do anything with mechanics. I worked in Alan Friedlander's fisheries Lab. If you have experience in the fisheries field you'll know the name without needing to search it since he's one of the top experts in the world. Clearly though, you have much more experience in the marine science field than I do. It's not like I've helped produce the primary literature that you and many others around the world are so happy to cite and reference.