Project Delphine's Ponderings on a Silcione Tail

[Delphine]

Hey, all! I've read Kanti's & Dr. Seaweed’s guides on silicone tails, and both were very helpful. I've been having many talks and critiques with classmates, friends and family and they all agree, you lovely merfans are a valuable resource for my ever-expanding tail-making research. And so, I have some questions about silicone tails maybe any of you as tailmakers can answer? Or direct me to a special person who can?

For the tail itself, I plan on using Dragonskin 10 Slow? Med? Fast? silicone rubber from Smooth-On. The Smooth-On rep I talked to recommended Dragonskin, a "fabric...called Power Mesh, a stretchy polyester/nylon, that can be laid into the silicone while you’re brushing it on to reinforce it" and Cast Magic: Pearly to give the tail an opalescent quality. A sculpture artist I talked to suggested using cheesecloth or muslin to do reinforce the silicone, instead and someone who name escapes me on here--Firemaid had suggested lace. Any thoughts on these? Not sure if I need the Psycho Paint Silicone paint base, but I'll use Silc Pig silicone pigments to give the body of the tail (where legs go) a bit of white or peachy tint before adding the Pearly. I've decided on getting a monofin to go on the inside, and if my memory serves a Finis Wave will do nicely.

My thought is to create an additional fin, kind of like a dorsal fin that thins out and ends at before the knees, and use that to hide a zipper (so I can get in and out of the tail easier)? Does anyone have experience with this? Somewhere I read that they'd made 2 dorsal fins to cover a zipper.. Firemaid had recommended lace over the monofin to help adhere and spray painting the clay molds.

There was some type of sealant against water that I saw bounced around here, but have forgotten what it's called, & am unsure if it's compatible with silicone rubber. Is that even necessary for silicone?

Something I've not found too much info on is how easy is it to literally get in & out of a silicone tail without a zipper? Do I need talc powder to do this? I read somewhere that to get in the tail Thom Shouse made for Splash, it took Daryl Hannah 5 hours. Is that time frame typical?

<3Delphine

[Seamist]

*reinforcement should not be necessary if you pour it thick enough, use the Dragonskin 10 medium cure if you are worried about working time.
*lace or nylon will help you adhere the silicone to the fin, I would use something like a sil-poxy contact adhesive to join your pieces.
*some of the pigments thicken the silicone, pay attention to the mixing and working times.

As for getting in and out, it does stretch....you can use a water based lubricant to assist in getting in. Careful that what you use will not degrade the silicone. It sounds weird, but many sex toys are made from silicone so the lubricants for them work very well.

[Delphine]

Seamist, thanks for the response! So you recommend Dragonskin 10 med, I will remember that. Do you recommend pouring instead of brushing? I have some plastic that I'm using for the texture that is the correct size for my scales and I was thinking to brush it on in a few layers. Hm, I'm sure Smooth-on has some adhesive agents, and I need to talk to them about all of this, so I shall see what they have for possible sil-poxies (by this I'm assuming it's a special silicone epoxy glue, haha cute). The nylon might be serve me better as it's stretchy. Oh, haha, I suppose you are right--I'll have to look into lubes, then. I'm sure I can find a water-based one that silicone safe.

[Seamist]

I would pour it, go slowly in the lowest part of your mold or on your scale sheet and let it seek it's level. You can build it up in layers if you want...if it is not thick enough on the first pour or if you are changing colors etc, just pour again. The silicone sticks very well to itself, sil-poxy is the brand name I use for adhesive of non silicone items to the silicone pieces.

[Seamist]

Oh and just a thought.....looking at the colored dots on your tail :) You can put some tinted silicone in a syringe and as it is setting up, stick in the tip and squirt a measured amt. You should be able to get a nice round dot if it is semi-set up when you inject the color. Just be careful of big air bubbles.

[Mer_Adella]

if you use seamists technique for the colored dots and dont want air bubbles...do it the same way that doctors eject air bubbles. load the color into the syringe. flick the syringe tube with your finger and squirt a little out to avoid air bubbles.

[Delphine]

Thank you, seamist & Mer_Adella. I'm taking note of your suggestions, and can probably get an art syringe easily. I just thought of something else. I realized that this tail is going to be pretty large, my monofin came in the mail this past week and that alone will add another 12"+. What are the best ways to transport & store silicone tails? I'll be doing multiple performances in this tail, and want to keep it safe and sturdy as long as possible. Anyone with ideas, feel free to chuck them out here. XD I saw something about hanging on a string, but am not sure if that's just for temp storage.. maybe a large flat box is better?

[Spindrift]

I mean, there are several threads that deal with this topic, if you want to check them out.

Just type in "tail travel" in the search box. People keep on starting new threads on the same topics so the information is a little scattered.

Here are some:

http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?3693-Transporting-tails-to-events-and-to-your-house
http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?395-Tail-Travel
http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?983-Travel-Bags

[Seamist]

I can't wait to see what you do with this. I am making a new scale mold right now...going with a non-traditional scale shape (I think). I plan on starting the pour in Jan or Feb to give myself plenty of time for the molds. The fins are the most fun part!

Another product that may make your life easier is epoxy sculpt. You can get it from Smooth-on, it works like clay but sets up hard. If you want to keep your fin plugs that you mold from it is an ideal material.

[Seamist]

And skip spending extra on an art syringe....get a meat basting one at the dollar store. Works just as well, and you can get multiples for extra colors....then toss them when you are through.

[Delphine]

Thank you Spindrift. I'll probably have to make to buy something for travel. Maybe a giant foam core box.. I learned how to make those from scratch in book-making--I could make one in megasize.. XD

Seamist, I met with smooth-on distributor & got the stuff on my list. We'll see if I need multiple colours for Delphine's tail.

Also, I've not seen or heard anyone mention what's to be worn beneath the tail? Particularly with silicone or even latex. Bathing suit bottoms? Panties? I know it's kinda silly, but I'm not sure so thought I'd ask. I mean, I don't want weird-looking bulges and bumps from my string-tie bathing suit bottoms. ^__^"

[Mermaid Lorelei]

One of the best things to wear under a tail is a pair of tights. They are thin, hug the body, won't cause funny bulges, come in skin tone, and will help your tail from sliding around your legs. :3

[Delphine]

Mermaid Lorelei, thanks for the tip. I think thin, skintone panties and tights might work well. Also, the other day I did a test scale sheet in a mold I'd created. The test sheet ended up about a quarter of an inch thick and was way too heavy for its size. You guys think half that thickness is thick enough to use for a DragonSkin silicone mertail? The only thing I'm worried about is tearing even though DragonSkin is pretty tough and durable.

[Mermaid Lorelei]

A lot of tail makers add a thin sheet of stretch mesh fabric to their scale sheets so that even when they cast the sheets thin, the scales have the extra fabric giving them added strength.

[Delphine]

Hm, good to know.. I may try this. Thank for tip, Mermaid Lorelei.

[Delphine]

I've been trying to find out on the forums what it's like actually wearing one of these silicone tails. Most of the posts are about taking them on & off, which I also was wondering about. It seems they are on the harder side to remove, medium-hard to get in. But what about when you are actually wearing the tail? I've done a few monofin swim tests now, and so I have only a vague idea of what it's like to swim with one's lower limbs as one (sans a tail). It is physically tiring, though you really can power through the water in a different way. My 2nd attempt was much more graceful and easier on my muscles. Phew! I believe I read on this thread (http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?1994-Getting-in-and-out-of-tails&highlight=wearing+silicone+tail) that you have to roll them on, & make sure you don't get air pockets. I remember somewhere was that they can keep you warm in cooler bodies of water. Can anyone share more about that? Too Warm? Are the silicone tails always tight feeling? Comfortable?

[Delphine]

Hey, mers! For those creating tails, how have you tackled the seam? This is the long back or side seam where your legs go. I've done a couple tests & they involve weights & more silicone to "glue" the sides into a single seam (I created on BIG scale sheet).

[Aino Revontuletar]

I've been wondering about how to do the seam as well, even though I'm nowhere near that stage yet.

[ShyMer]

If you know the measurements exactly before you cast, you could cast the silicone sheets exactly to those measurements and make the edges thin. that way you overlap the edges without the seams being so chunky. I didn't think to do this with mine, unfortunately, so i don't know what problems you'd run into.

[Mermaid Lorelei]

This is honestly the hardest part (in my opinion). Your best bet is to have some sort of clamp, band, or tie to keep the scales in place while the 'glue' of silicone is curing. Heating the silicone will also help it to cure faster, so that you don't have to spend as much time holding the scales together. A hair dryer or heat gun work well for this. Also, working in smaller sections will help you minimize scale slippage and errors.

[Delphine]

Well, thank you all for your thoughts. Hm, that probably would work ShyMer, however I didn't think of that either. My scale sheet is pretty thick, the whole way through. Punzie, I've barely found any info about seams on here, from anyone. It's all vague theory, but I'll do my best.

This DOES seem to be the hardest part (pun intended XD), Mermaid Lorelei!

Yep, I bought clamps, so we're gunna try using my mannequin & the clamp system, tomorrow. My small test worked well with the technique I tried out. Gunna kick some seam-butt. Wish me luck! =P

[Kanti]

Hey, all! I've read Kanti's & Dr. Seaweed’s guides on silicone tails, and both were very helpful. I've been having many talks and critiques with classmates, friends and family and they all agree, you lovely merfans are a valuable resource for my ever-expanding tail-making research. And so, I have some questions about silicone tails maybe any of you as tailmakers can answer? Or direct me to a special person who can?

For the tail itself, I plan on using Dragonskin 10 Slow? Med? Fast? silicone rubber from Smooth-On. The Smooth-On rep I talked to recommended Dragonskin, a "fabric...called Power Mesh, a stretchy polyester/nylon, that can be laid into the silicone while you’re brushing it on to reinforce it" and Cast Magic: Pearly to give the tail an opalescent quality. A sculpture artist I talked to suggested using cheesecloth or muslin to do reinforce the silicone, instead and someone who name escapes me on here--Firemaid had suggested lace. Any thoughts on these? Not sure if I need the Psycho Paint Silicone paint base, but I'll use Silc Pig silicone pigments to give the body of the tail (where legs go) a bit of white or peachy tint before adding the Pearly. I've decided on getting a monofin to go on the inside, and if my memory serves a Finis Wave will do nicely.

My thought is to create an additional fin, kind of like a dorsal fin that thins out and ends at before the knees, and use that to hide a zipper (so I can get in and out of the tail easier)? Does anyone have experience with this? Somewhere I read that they'd made 2 dorsal fins to cover a zipper.. Firemaid had recommended lace over the monofin to help adhere and spray painting the clay molds.

There was some type of sealant against water that I saw bounced around here, but have forgotten what it's called, & am unsure if it's compatible with silicone rubber. Is that even necessary for silicone?

Something I've not found too much info on is how easy is it to literally get in & out of a silicone tail without a zipper? Do I need talc powder to do this? I read somewhere that to get in the tail Thom Shouse made for Splash, it took Daryl Hannah 5 hours. Is that time frame typical?

<3Delphine

Alright I'll try to answer whatever I can, forgive me if I forget something and lemme know if you have more questions, I haven't read the entire topic/responses yet xD

1. Dragonskin10 is actually the hardest I would go. Dragonskin 10 is WAY awesome in the sense that its very hard and very stretchy. For the SLOW MED and FAST, you can honestly go fine with FAST. Remember, your mold should be the only real work you're doing, so once the mold is done all you really need time for the silicone is to be able to pour it all at once, which honestly, even if you needed a LOT of time, 8 minutes is way more than enough to mix and pour.

2. The whole "Power Mesh" is literally 4-way stretch spandex, nothing more. Using cheesecloth is probably a bad idea because cheesecloth isn't stretchy at all. Mermaid tails are usually so thick that you can literally bypass this altogether. A "light" mermaid tail will probably be no less than .5cm which even then is REALLY big by silicone-prosthetic appliances. Not to mention Dragonskin10 has a stretch of 1000% which means it can stretch 10xs it's original length before breaking (wouldn't recommend actually trying that unless you have the money to spare lmao).

3. Avoid zippers, it's not only weird but somewhat impossible to do on a full silicone tail. The silicone has enough stretch that you won't need it.

4. You don't need to water-seal it, silicone doesn't absorb water at all, easy drying!

5. It shouldn't take more than 10 minutes to get in and out of a tail if you get help. The Mertailor has said before that he uses lotion or conditioner on the person's legs to get them to slip in easier. HOWEVER if you're getting it on by yourself make sure you have a towel or something near you while you're lotining up your legs or else it'll be impossible for you to even hold onto the tail afterwards xD

Hope that helped!

[Delphine]

Alright I'll try to answer whatever I can, forgive me if I forget something and lemme know if you have more questions, I haven't read the entire topic/responses yet xD

1. Dragonskin10 is actually the hardest I would go. Dragonskin 10 is WAY awesome in the sense that its very hard and very stretchy. For the SLOW MED and FAST, you can honestly go fine with FAST. Remember, your mold should be the only real work you're doing, so once the mold is done all you really need time for the silicone is to be able to pour it all at once, which honestly, even if you needed a LOT of time, 8 minutes is way more than enough to mix and pour.

2. The whole "Power Mesh" is literally 4-way stretch spandex, nothing more. Using cheesecloth is probably a bad idea because cheesecloth isn't stretchy at all. Mermaid tails are usually so thick that you can literally bypass this altogether. A "light" mermaid tail will probably be no less than .5cm which even then is REALLY big by silicone-prosthetic appliances. Not to mention Dragonskin10 has a stretch of 1000% which means it can stretch 10xs it's original length before breaking (wouldn't recommend actually trying that unless you have the money to spare lmao).

3. Avoid zippers, it's not only weird but somewhat impossible to do on a full silicone tail. The silicone has enough stretch that you won't need it.

4. You don't need to water-seal it, silicone doesn't absorb water at all, easy drying!

5. It shouldn't take more than 10 minutes to get in and out of a tail if you get help. The Mertailor has said before that he uses lotion or conditioner on the person's legs to get them to slip in easier. HOWEVER if you're getting it on by yourself make sure you have a towel or something near you while you're lotining up your legs or else it'll be impossible for you to even hold onto the tail afterwards xD

Hope that helped!


Hi Kanti! Yes, the Dragonskin 10 has been fine. One of the professors I'm working with did manage to rip one of my tests, but it was super thin. My scale sheet is probably 1/4" thick, so I highly doubt it'll rip, lol. I've had to wash my tests & the big sheet, they dried off fine. The dragon skin attracts a while manner of dust & dirt from my studio, it was gross! Then again, I chose to do a white tail. XD Good to know this is a 10min in/out ordeal. Yeah, I'm thinking to lube up my legs like most are suggesting, as it'll be easier to get into the tail.

Also, I've been struggling with this seam. My tech-friend & I decided to put the seam down the back, but couldn't do it all in one go. I'm doing it in parts, with white lycra acting as a seam "band-aid". I'm doing that & putting the cast fluke 1/2's together this weekend! It's gunna be nuts.