Infant Swim Self Rescue

[MermaidBrittany]

Hannah Mermaid posted this on FB and I thought it was really cool! Who wouldn't want their kid to learn this?
(Sorry if everyone completely knows about this and I am just really out of the loop :P)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nI_XzNfxjlY

[Gem Stone]

wow

[Kanti]

Man I may be harsh, but I find it pathetic that this has to be taught.
Babies should already know how to react to water, especially an infant which I assume is at LEAST a year old.

Baby possoms, lions, and even deers know how to instinctively posture themselves to float in water and deers have freakin hooves!
Human babies are so spoiled.
Again, harsh, but that's my opinion.

[FreshWaterMermaid]

This isn't taught. I'm pretty sure (correct if wrong) this is instinctual just like other animals.
I know that when infants are dunked the body has a mechanism which causes the baby to hold its breath.
Pretty awesome stuff.

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[Dacora]

This isn't taught. I'm pretty sure (correct if wrong) this is instinctual just like other animals.
I know that when infants are dunked the body has a mechanism which causes the baby to hold its breath.
Pretty awesome stuff.

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I always heard it was instinct too.

Am I the only one who couldn't watch the whole video? Hearing the baby cry like that was heart wrenching for me....
I know it was all staged for the video but still. :(

[AptaMer]

This isn't taught. I'm pretty sure (correct if wrong) this is instinctual just like other animals.
I know that when infants are dunked the body has a mechanism which causes the baby to hold its breath.
Pretty awesome stuff.


Human babies have 2 a very strong dive reflex, and they instantly swim with correct arm and leg movements, even when they can't walk. This is one reason people have suggested that humans have deep connections to the sea in their history. More info is in this article

http://www.babycenter.com/404_is-it-true-that-babies-are-born-with-the-ability-to-swim-and_10313062.bc

While babies can swim very effectively, and the dive reflex maximizes their abilties, what they have no reflex for is turning over on their backs to get air. They will thus keep swimming until they run out of oxygen if no one rescues them. That is what the Infant Self Rescue program that Hannah Mermaid is promoting is all about. Teaching that crucial skill to babies and toddlers.

[FreshWaterMermaid]

Thanks aptamer, good stuff

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[MermaidBrittany]

Yeah, Aptamer is right, the site the video is linked with is:
http://www.infantswim.com/

[Kanti]

Eh there was nothing bad happening to it, it was just sitting in water. It was only crying because it was uncomfortable. But it's good for a baby, dog, cat, horse, ANYTHING really to be exposed to things that make them uncomfortable to show them that if they're not getting hurt they shouldn't be worried about the thing causing discomfort.
I don't like where human evolution is going with our children, though. All the instinct seems to be evaporating and they're all relying on being taught everything. This sort of seems to set them up to fail if they're not taught something or taught the wrong thing.
So if you don't teach your baby how to flip itself over in the water it's completely helpless? Especially annoying since they're extremely curious and have no sense of fear or caution for anything, even potentially deadly things. So it's like the ideal combination for failure.

[Dacora]

Eh there was nothing bad happening to it, it was just sitting in water. It was only crying because it was uncomfortable. But it's good for a baby, dog, cat, horse, ANYTHING really to be exposed to things that make them uncomfortable to show them that if they're not getting hurt they shouldn't be worried about the thing causing discomfort.
I don't like where human evolution is going with our children, though. All the instinct seems to be evaporating and they're all relying on being taught everything. This sort of seems to set them up to fail if they're not taught something or taught the wrong thing.
So if you don't teach your baby how to flip itself over in the water it's completely helpless? Especially annoying since they're extremely curious and have no sense of fear or caution for anything, even potentially deadly things. So it's like the ideal combination for failure.


I know nothing bad was happening to it. It still sounded terrible though.

I do see your point though. I know this is going to sound terrible but its probably the best that some instincts are not passed down. That's natural selection working like its supposed to, to ensure the strong and best survive.

On the other hand, being taught something you dont know to do is not all that terrible. Instincts are behaviors that have been selected for survival. Therefore they are in the DNA because they have conferred a benefit and therefore reproduced. The parent passes that knowledge on to the child and the child passes it on to their children etc etc and it becomes helpful to life.

If a parent is too stupid to lock the door leading out to the pool,watch their infant around water, or put pool fences up, why not teach it how to flip on it back? If the parent wont take care of the kid at lest it knows how to float on its back until some one can get to it.

[Traveling Merman]

All this talk about natural selection and survival of the fittest and Instinct is rubbish! Of course all these natural things are disappearing because humans aren't letting the weak, fat, old, and mentally unsound people die! And maybe because of that we now have to teach people things which should be instinctual.

Maybe it is a bad thing that we're letting everyone live! I sure as hell know me and my mum wouldn't be here if we'd been about 50 years earlier! Personally I think the human race is getting.......soft (mentally and physically)

[FreshWaterMermaid]

Here here.

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[Mermaid Kelda]

We are getting better with medicine and genetics and stuff though (like how we might be able to remove the gene that causes obesity). Perhaps keeping as many people alive as possible means that we have more of a chance of discovering more cures/preventions!

[Traveling Merman]

We are getting better with medicine and genetics and stuff though (like how we might be able to remove the gene that causes obesity). Perhaps keeping as many people alive as possible means that we have more of a chance of discovering more cures/preventions!

But it's when the human race depends on cures to live....... Do you really want that? For the human race to be dependant on drugs to survive?

Gene research is a complicated subject as there is no real gene for being obese just like there's no real gene for being gay it's a mixture of many genes almost like a coded padlock and also 70% of it is surrounding influences whilst growing up! So to remove the obesity/gay/family quirk genes would also possibly mean removing a couple of fingers, a lung or maybe part of the brain. It's a new subject and highly controversial as what it would mean for the human race, people selecting what they want out o a child? How's that different to hitler attempting to make the Arian race? Gene selection would remove all the quirks in humans that make us human, everybody would be equal in EVERYTHING science, the arts, literature, sports etc which would cause major problems with jobs and social standings for a start! Is that something you think would be beneficial for the world?

I know this mernetwork wouldn't exist if everyone was he same, for like it or not we are all here in this community; off kilter, quirky, a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic, etc

Sorry...... I'm really against gene removal and research on those grounds! Just my opinion but its something I feel strongly about :/

[Thalassa]

I know this mernetwork wouldn't exist if everyone was he same, for like it or not we are all here in this community; off kilter, quirky, a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic, etc

Sorry, this is a tangent, but it struck me how just about all of us would be seen by a lot of people to be just that way. "Weird, etc." It's that sort of person who has enough of an open mind towards mermaids to say, "Yeah, sure, I'll be a mermaid" and such. The amount of open-mindedness and which way the mind opens differ, but we're all open towards...I dunno, fantasy? To suspension of reality?

Personally, I think the infant survival stuff is a pretty good idea. If saving oneself from drowning were an instinct, children would never drown. As Aptamer said, not all of the skills taught by this are instinct, but it does take advantage of the instincts that are there. There are so many things that could happen, I'd rather try to minimize the risk.

[Mermaid Melusinah]

okie dokie. *wiggles her fingers and readies to type her two cents*

Let me start by saying, I am a mommy ^_^ No that doesnt make my opinions any more valid then all of yours. you all raise EXCELLENT points.
Now, that being said. I am a firm believer in giving children the skills and tools they need to thrive and survive. Infants are in fact BORN knowing how to swim. What do you think they've been doing for 9 months? certainly not being couch potatoes :p
Now, people have to ask, why then are there so many child drownings? Simple, they grow unaccustomed to it. MOST parents don't encourage or continue swimming till a child reaches a "safe age". so the child basically just grows away from that. hence why it can often be tough or difficult to reteach them. a lot of parents dont think its an important skill for a child to know till way later. Truth is, any age is safe. and they should learn/continue. Sooner the better even. If a child remains calm and desensitized around water and is encouraged what to do, and then taught good technique, even better. Am I a baby encouraging swimming mommy? of course. Daughter Beast LOVES the water. We didnt get a chance to hon skills much last summer due to being super busy, but this summer we are going to really work on it together. :)
I am a believer that knowing how to swim is one of the best skills a person can learn for survival, right along side building a proper fire. Simply because if you are ever in that situation, its best to know what to do then struggle.
I do believe in survival of the fittest. so many children these days are having their hands held and things done for them.... it cant always be like that. I at least feel better knowing that (gods forbid) if my kiddo were to stumble into water before I could reach her, she would know how to handle it and what to do.

[Mermaid Melusinah]

All this talk about natural selection and survival of the fittest and Instinct is rubbish! Of course all these natural things are disappearing because humans aren't letting the weak, fat, old, and mentally unsound people die! And maybe because of that we now have to teach people things which should be instinctual.

Maybe it is a bad thing that we're letting everyone live! I sure as hell know me and my mum wouldn't be here if we'd been about 50 years earlier! Personally I think the human race is getting.......soft (mentally and physically)

I love it when i see my thoughts are the same as some one else... You could not have said it better.

[Thalassa]

While I do agree that infants have been in liquid for the last 9 months, I guess it depends on your definition of swimming. Do they know how to move in liquid? Yes. Do they know how to position themselves to take a breath of air? No. Because it doesn't have to. A child receives oxygen from its mother, and doesn't actually "breathe" until after it's delivered. They inhale and exhale amniotic fluid, but that's not the same as dealing with two such different mediums as water and air. Could they figure it out on their own? Maybe.

I guess I don't see why people are so weirded out that these infants are taking classes for this. When I have kids, I want them to learn to swim as soon as possible, and to float and be comfortable in water before that (if possible). However, I don't have the skills to get them that way, and I'd rather have someone who is trained in it help them. I don't know what a baby drowning looks like, don't know the levels to step them up to being comfortable, etc. So I'd rather leave it to someone who does know it. It doesn't look to me as if the teachers coddle the kids (some of those early sessions are downright PAINFUL to watch), just help them learn/remember and provide encouragement and support at the end of each task.

As for the natural selection thing, I'm meh about it. I see the point, but I'm also not an "Ends justify the means" type person. It's one of those ethical questions where you wonder if it's better to save a life now or possibly improve the lives of many others down the line. I lean more towards the save a life, but I don't have terribly strong opinions one way or the other.

[MermaidBrittany]

I agree with Thalassa about babies in fluid for the first 9 months, its not really like they are swimming anywhere, they are just "breathing" the amniotic fluid and just kinda floating there. Sure there is movement but not necessarily swimming.

And I too think that parents are waiting much to long to expose their children to water, if they would introduce them at a young age then there would not be as much of an issue. Granted, there are still accidents but there would be fewer.

Natural selection does not have much of an affect on the human race as it does other species. Since children are coddled so much and just generally sheltered, natural selection just isn't happening. Genetics is a subject area that is just to vast to understand at this point and time, but from what we do know, I believe that it is not taking place.

[Mermaid Kelda]

But it's when the human race depends on cures to live....... Do you really want that? For the human race to be dependant on drugs to survive?

Gene research is a complicated subject as there is no real gene for being obese just like there's no real gene for being gay it's a mixture of many genes almost like a coded padlock and also 70% of it is surrounding influences whilst growing up! So to remove the obesity/gay/family quirk genes would also possibly mean removing a couple of fingers, a lung or maybe part of the brain. It's a new subject and highly controversial as what it would mean for the human race, people selecting what they want out o a child? How's that different to hitler attempting to make the Arian race? Gene selection would remove all the quirks in humans that make us human, everybody would be equal in EVERYTHING science, the arts, literature, sports etc which would cause major problems with jobs and social standings for a start! Is that something you think would be beneficial for the world?

I know this mernetwork wouldn't exist if everyone was he same, for like it or not we are all here in this community; off kilter, quirky, a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic, etc

Sorry...... I'm really against gene removal and research on those grounds! Just my opinion but its something I feel strongly about :/

I'm not advocating parental "gene dabbling". I'm talking more about specifically curing diseases and deformities. Even if parents could "edit" their future child, so much of our skill in different areas is raised by our environment, our temperament/metal capacity, our friends and family, our schools, etc. I don't think we could create a world where everyone was the same.

But in any case, I too don't agree with commercial gene selection. But if it's the difference between a child with or without a painful disease, I think it's worth researching. And anyway, surely the ability to remove illnesses before birth is just as good as letting those children die/stopping the illness from reproducing through their children? In both cases, the illness is gone.

Edit: This study here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2288991/Switching-obesity-gene-prevent-weight-gain-EVEN-eating-high-fat-diet.html) is what I was referencing when I mentioned the "obesity gene"

[Tasha Mermaid]

for people wondering this IS taught to infants 5 months and older........i actually think its a great thing for them to know......YES floating is instinctual BUT as infants are barely in water after birth they forget it and must relearn, i actually want to get a job teaching this :) ......oh and the site that video is from says they teach the babies to cry after getting themselves on their back so as to draw attention to themselves......
Personally when i have a baby it will be back in water asap for swimming (and adorable photos) :)

[FreshWaterMermaid]

Isn't the cause of obesity overeating/poor diet/ thyroid problem??? Why waste time on 'gene manipulation to cure obesity' when there are bigger things to worry about ie, cancer, hiv, etc.
Can't humans control themselves and cure obesity with self control and moderation?
*hops off soap box*

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[Mermaid Kelda]

Actually, though many people become obese through lifestyle, I believe it can also be a genetic thing, just like you also get people who are ridiculously skinny and can't put on any weight.
And I was only using obesity as an example, because I had the study on hand. Obviously the more serious diseases/illnesses should be given more attention.
Speaking of which, did anyone hear about the baby that has been (so far) cured of HIV? (link here (http://www.depauliaonline.com/nation-world/baby-in-mississippi-has-been-hiv-free-for-a-year-1.3007677#.UT1-p9Zgc54)) We're on the road to progress!

[Tasha Mermaid]

Isn't the cause of obesity overeating/poor diet/ thyroid problem??? Why waste time on 'gene manipulation to cure obesity' when there are bigger things to worry about ie, cancer, hiv, etc.
Can't humans control themselves and cure obesity with self control and moderation?
*hops off soap box*

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This is the BIGGEST misconception and the reason why us big girls are looked down upon, i am big.......i eat a ALL healthy no crap vegetarian diet and i eat VERY little amounts (because i am barely ever hungry), i exercise enough and am adding more into my routine and i cannot for the life of me budge this weight...... i am hour glass shaped naturally so tend to hold alot more weight then others and although you can see and feel alot of my bones i also have very flabby sections of fat (tummy, arms) i work hard and get no where, i have no thyroid problems but i do have polycystic ovarian syndrome..... i gained alot of weight after my open heart surgery that i had at age 7 (i was born with a heart condition) .........it really upsets me that people think that all fat people sit around eating huge amounts of greasy crap food and that we "do it to ourselves so its our own fault" it simply is not true for ALOT of fat people........Yes of cause there are the ones who do and that i think is shocking but please don't say that trying to help those who try so hard is "a waste of time", that is simply not fair.

[Kanti]

Nah babies have unlearned the need to be able to posture themselves in water because there isn't anything selecting for it anymore. Human offspring don't need to be able to swim because we have mothers who have the luxury of owning a house and using tools like doors, gates, and other things to keep their children out of water unlike most wild animals. These things have also selected against having more cautious babies. Well, yea, we don't exactly have predators and babies are so sheltered that they are basically kept away from anything that can hurt them anyways.
And yea, the child is crying because it's uncomfortable. A child's cry is supposed to call parents over to show something is wrong, so saying theyre drawing attention to themselves is sort of repetative because it wouldn't be calling attention to itself if there was nothing wrong.
And yea, society is moving towards a less 'instinctive' approach and that's fine, but the moment society fails/falls and we no longer have access to electricity we are completely f*cked. We have zero instincts, zero tolerance towards anything, zero natural abilities in general. Our babies can't even swim so mothers will have to devote 100% of their lives to caring for a child that can't function maturely until it's about 7.

As for the obesity thing, there actually is a gene related to it. Well several, but the biggest contributor they say is a gene that makes people crave sugars more than regular people. This usually makes it difficult for the person to control, but really it's not even that large of a contributing factor. Of course there's more than one genetic factor, there's your metabolism, how your body handles carbs, whether you have extra areas to grow in order to distribute your weight out, and many other things, but I think the one that studies most relate to people being obese is the "crave" gene.
Being obese isn't necessarily something that's fixed into your genes, you can completely work against it, the human body is not designed to be obese, it would never have an "obese gene". The problem is that since there are lots of genes contributing to it, many diets that work for one person don't work for someone else, so you often get people who have tried to work with it but find no diets fit their lifestyle and they're not losing much weight. It's not that the person has the obese gene, it's that they haven't found the right diet that takes advantage of their body's mechanics.

[FreshWaterMermaid]

I can agree with you both to an extent cause I've known girls that were born obese. Their father was obese and so was his daughter. But she has since lost a ton of weight and look amazing! Her sister on the other hand has taken all that weight. Which sucks. But I could see that as a result of coping with her father's recent death :/
I didn't mean to offend anyone I just had no idea they were working on obesity on a genetic level yet.
It seems weird that america has the highest concentration of obesity (correct if wrong), that is what should lead people to believe something is wrong with our environment and what we do with our diet/life... *shrugs*

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