"Stuffed" or Padded tail ideas?

[Mertara]

I am trying to brainstorm ways to fill out a tail out in order to hide the leg structure underneath. I don't like to see the concave gap between legs, or knees/ankles/monofin in mermaid tails. I like it when the tail looks round and solid all the way to the fluke. Has anyone tried different materials to pad the inside of the tail in order to hide your legs underneath? I know neoprene is a bit thicker than a spandex or a lycra for the tail skin, but I can still see the leg structure underneath most neoprene tails. Silicone is better, and hides the gap between the legs but you can usually still see the ankle and monofin protrusions, and sometimes the knees. Maybe if a thick enough neoprene AND silicone are used, and maybe some smaller fins to hide ankle protrusions..? I just don't know enough yet to wrap my head around some ideas, and I didn't see any other threads already touching on the subject ^_^. I have to research monofins more, as well, but are there some monofins that have a much smaller profile on the heel than others?

To that extent, I would also like to find ways to extend my actual legs before applying the fluke, and would therefor need a solid something to fill the space after my feet and before the fluke, that won't drag me down and drown me.

[MerEmma]

The Finis Competitor puts less heel-like structure to it but it's still not fantastic. I assume you've seen the H2O tails, right? That's really the best way, albeit expensive and not very practical either (you can't flip your fluke very well). As for wrapping the legs, H2O (mostly what I consider to be *some of* the most realistic tails out there) mostly used neoprene covered with the silicone, but it's thick neoprene I believe. They used a LOT of it (and somehow could sink!) and it did a really good job of it. Unfortunately I don't have much more to offer than that.

[Traveling Merman]

Check out mermaid lindens tail at least I think that's her name!

[Mertara]

I assume you've seen the H2O tails, right? That's really the best way, albeit expensive and not very practical either (you can't flip your fluke very well). As for wrapping the legs, H2O (mostly what I consider to be *some of* the most realistic tails out there) mostly used neoprene covered with the silicone, but it's thick neoprene I believe. They used a LOT of it (and somehow could sink!) and it did a really good job of it. Unfortunately I don't have much more to offer than that. Yeah they do have really realistic looking tails....I have no idea what they use for making them though besides just thick neoprene and silicone....

Mermaid Linden's tail looks good when she is just sitting but I can see her calves and ankles and monofin shape XD

[Traveling Merman]

I'm thinking of the wrong mermaid then

[Mertara]

I'm thinking of the wrong mermaid then well maybe not, here's the google image search https://www.google.com/search?q=mermaid+linden&aq=f&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=2VdLUev7FoTc0QGuyYD4Aw&biw=1280&bih=677&sei=3FdLUe_sAunI0gH4nYDIBw#imgrc=_
some of her shots it looks really awesome, so its hard to say, definitely looks more real than most.

[Traveling Merman]

Oh yeah! That's her, I can't see her heels like you said?

I think I remember an interview with her, saying that that was the thickest you can safely go (she's a strong strong strong swimmer) for weight and manoeuvrability?

[Traveling Merman]

Or am I wrong?

[Mertara]

Oh yeah! That's her, I can't see her heels like you said?

I think I remember an interview with her, saying that that was the thickest you can safely go (she's a strong strong strong swimmer) for weight and manoeuvrability?

well hers is really really good, the only thing you can see most the time is the lump on the back of her heel from her foot/monofin and sometimes her calf muscles, but even that is ttly ok, it's the leg gap and knees that bug me most! So she just used the thickest neoprene? not that I will be able to afford neoprene anytime soon hehe, esp nice stuff.

10240
10241

[Mertara]

I wonder if I could use headliner foam (100% poly) as an inner layer? I may test this.

[Traveling Merman]

She used sclicone I thought?

[Mermaid Mads]

http://www.themertailor.com/

10249 10250

That style is my favorite. The fluke shape is amazing. Check out his web page. The Mertailor is the best tail maker out there in my option.

[Mertara]

gorgeous tail~! her heels are hidden VERY well! But you can see all the leg detailing on the front of her legs :| anyways I am not looking to commission one bc of $, I will be making my own, so I am just brainstorming ;)

[Mermaid Lorelei]

She did use silicone fully. She had it specifically poured to her body shape.

[MerEmma]

The foam would probably work, but it would also float quite a good deal.

[Mertara]

The foam would probably work, but it would also float quite a good deal. yes for sure, but headliner foam is very thin and quite porous, I have no idea how floatatious it is, I would have to test it, but it would not be anywhere near as strong as say a high density foam (green stuff).

[MermaidBrittany]

The Mertailor Photoshop's all of his photos, so that's really not what I would look like if you were to wear it.

Mermaid Linden on the other hand had a special affects artist create hers. Like Mermaid Lorelei said, it was full silicone and pored specifically for her. :)

As for the thickening, perhaps multiple layers of neoprene? I too think that the foam would float.


The extended tails have been tried a lot, but without much success. Many of them end up much too thick, but that is my opinion :P You are referring to the footplate correct?

[Mertara]

headliner foam is not like regular foam, its that really thin stuff the roof on the inside of your car is lined with. I think my body is much heavier than any floatation power it might have...but I will post progress if I go that route...as far as extensions, yes I imagine it would be hard to tackle....I was thinking to fill an empty cavity, tulle could be used bc it weighs nothing at all, does not soak up water, and you can pack a lot of it into a small space....but then I am left with the question of how can I swim without my feet being connected to my fluke? I'd maybe have to find a way to secure a rod of come sort, or some other apparatus...I haven't gotten that far yet lol

[Kanti]

Foam will make your tail more buoyant, more silicone will make it very heavy on land, not to mention that is a LOT of extra silicone you're going to need! No idea, really. I think Lorelei is right, you can hide the heels best if you have a mold of your legs, that way you know where to add extra.

@Mads - I'm pretty sure that mertailor picture is photoshopped xD

[NerineArcticMermaid]

Do NOT use headliner Foam. It will break down very fast when wetted over extended periods
If you go with foam. Get the outdoor patio furnature foam. It is made to be wet and outside. It will last much longer. You canget it at a decent price at JoAnn Fabrics. Plus it is dense enough to be "sculpted" to fill the leg gap.

As for hiding heels. Check out my Mermaid Creations tail. I think We effectively hid my heels while swimming with my heel fins. I also have a split dorsal to also detract from the calf hump and knee dip.

I do hope that helps.


**Those Mertailor pictures are most definetly photoshopped. As a digital artist I can spot digital manipulations and "cover ups" on images. All-be- it they did a pretty darn good job but you can still spot the clone tool usage if you know where to look.**

[Kanti]

Hmmm now that I think of it foam wouldn't be a good idea. It would just be a giant sponge and absorb water and be impossible to dry out. Not to mention it could possibly harbor a place for mold to grow, and that would not be good.

[Morticia Mermaid]

The Mertailor Photoshop's all of his photos, so that's really not what I would look like if you were to wear it.

I've actually seen a bunch of his photos that aren't photo shopped, so don't really think it's fair to say "all" of them are.

As for trying to mask leg detailing, what about custom pillows?

[MermaidBrittany]

I've actually seen a bunch of his photos that aren't photo shopped, so don't really think it's fair to say "all" of them are.



Ok, well most of them are :/ Its rather misleading

[Mermaid Jewel]

Most professional photos are photoshopped if you think about it. I correct all the colors and play with lighting in much of my photos (not a professional, but you know what I mean).

Anyways, a lot of hiding the heels is in the placement, if you noticed with Linden's tail.

[NerineArcticMermaid]

The outdoor foam I spoke of doesn't absorb water as much and is supposed to be antimicrobial.


As for photoshoping images fit lighting and color..yeah that's acceptable but doing it to hide imperfections of manufacturing is just plain wrong and deceitful.

[Mermaid Mads]

http://youtu.be/g43b2P_Pjtc (Silicone Tail)

[MermaidBrittany]

As for photoshoping images fit lighting and color..yeah that's acceptable but doing it to hide imperfections of manufacturing is just plain wrong and deceitful.

Exactly.

[Kanti]

Meh, outdoor foam isn't meant to be submerged and surrounded by rubber/fabric that keeps it from drying properly. Outdoor foam is probably water resistant to an extent, like in a case of rain or something, but that doesn't mean it can withstand being swam in and then taken out of the water and being somehow expected to dry off inbetween layers of silicone that don't allow water to evaporate.

If it's foam it can probably absorb water, if it absorbs water it needs to dry fully or else you're just creating a damp cool environment for fungus and bacteria to grow. Not to mention if it soaks up too much water it will definitely strain the movement and possibly even tear under it's own weight.

[NerineArcticMermaid]

the kind i am talking about does not absorb water.

[Mertara]

Is there a name to this outdoor foam? in any case whatever foam or liner I used would be removable, like a leg case and tail would go over it, I would not sew it into the actual tail, making dry time a non-issue, and also easier on any repairs.

Nerine - how do you know headliner would degrade quickly? Have you swam in it before? Or submerged it for long periods of time?

[Kanti]

Can you provide a name for the foam then?
If there's a foam that doesn't absorb water that is literally mind-boggling to me.

[Mermaid Lorelei]

I know that with the H2O tails, they made a mold of each of the girl's legs, then they sculpted on top of the molds to make the tail. All of the extra space created from the sculpting was filled in with hand made bodysuits of neoprene that the girls were zipped into before being glued into their silicone tails. There is a video on youtube of the process, but I'm having trouble finding it.

[Mermaid Lorelei]

http://youtu.be/2wg2xMJNNSE

[Mertara]

thanks for the video - yeah I will mostly likely be making a cast of my legs (with hubby's help) anyways, bc I want to play around with doing individual silicone scales and for that I will need the tail skin to be stretched. It looks like they only use neoprene before the silicone (looked like 2 layers of thick stuff) and he said they do a rod down by the feet similar to what I was envisioning making....wish they woulds give us more of their secrets!

[Mertara]

Can you provide a name for the foam then?
If there's a foam that doesn't absorb water that is literally mind-boggling to me.


You seem to be getting a little passive aggressive at this topic :( There are lots of different foams out there, and depending on the density per square inch, and the type of fibers used to make the foam determines how floatatious it is. I certainly do not know every foam that exists, and I am sure that none of us do. I have seen much crazier happenings than foam being submerged in water. If you used a high density foam, which is made to be strong and spring back, and it were very thick, yes, it would probably make you float, but if you are using a very loose foam, with many air pass-throughs in the weave, which is also made from 100% synthetic materials such as nylon or polyester (which are plastic fibers and do not soak up any water into the fibers) your bodyweight alone would be more than enough to pull the foam under water. I think the subject needs more research and testing before we go writing it off ;) I will be making a trip to joanns soon and I will get a sample of headliner and test it, bc I am quite certain it will not hinder my underwater abilities. That would not be neccessary if I had the $$ to shell out for lots of neoprene, but atm I can probably only afford a siliconized lycra tail, so I need to fill it out with something! I'm still thinking of other materials to use as well, that are thick but won't take on water.

[Elle]

Ok, well most of them are :/ Its rather misleading

Most of them is pretty much all of them. I photoshop for extra cash and unless the models he gets in have no ankles the only (tail) image not photoshopped is this one.
10257
Color correction and fixing up the lighting is kind of a stock standard thing. But the photos on his website gallery have been played with as far as ankles and calves go.
And yes it's misleading, but it's marketing. When making a dream a reality, sometimes the rules get bent a little.
Also the girls he uses have very slim legs and feet to begin with (making the job easier)
If you aren't built like one of Eric's girls, hiding them heels without padding or photoshop is a very hard thing to do. That's why heel fins and dorsals are so fabulous, they trick the eye :)

[Mertara]

I'm familiar with costume photography so I know the rules ;) Photoshopped or not his tails are gorgeous, but I am making my own tail! I will most likely pad it, which is the whole point of this thread XD Just brainstorming...I think what I see more than the heel is the actual monofin. I do not like when you can see the curve of the hell and it goes straight like a plank into the fluke, I think if the heel were built into the fluke more with curve it wouldn't be so bad.

[Mermaid Stark]

Hmmm... If someone can give me the name of the foam, I would like to try this too. I don't like how my knees give away the whole affect of the tail.

[Mertara]

I'm also goin to look into foam filter sheets, like for aquariums those are definitely water safe, do not corrode, and would not keep me afloat....question is how big can I find sheets...

just found this site, it has larger sheets of open cell foam http://foammart.com/products/s_1354745446.3223_IMG_1437.JPG (http://foammart.com/index.php?pg=home&pcat=foam-flexible-open-cell#foam-flexible-open-cell)

something like this 10258

[Mermaid Dottie]

You said you wanted your tail to be longer. This girl is AWESOME.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjFrxbR-ACE&list=PL386AE75CB074DC65
We're going to do something like this for me.

[Kanti]

You seem to be getting a little passive aggressive at this topic :( There are lots of different foams out there, and depending on the density per square inch, and the type of fibers used to make the foam determines how floatatious it is. I certainly do not know every foam that exists, and I am sure that none of us do. I have seen much crazier happenings than foam being submerged in water. If you used a high density foam, which is made to be strong and spring back, and it were very thick, yes, it would probably make you float, but if you are using a very loose foam, with many air pass-throughs in the weave, which is also made from 100% synthetic materials such as nylon or polyester (which are plastic fibers and do not soak up any water into the fibers) your bodyweight alone would be more than enough to pull the foam under water. I think the subject needs more research and testing before we go writing it off ;) I will be making a trip to joanns soon and I will get a sample of headliner and test it, bc I am quite certain it will not hinder my underwater abilities. That would not be neccessary if I had the $$ to shell out for lots of neoprene, but atm I can probably only afford a siliconized lycra tail, so I need to fill it out with something! I'm still thinking of other materials to use as well, that are thick but won't take on water.

Oh geeze sorry!
I didn't mean it in that way at all! I was just seriously curious. The only foams I know that "lock" water out are usually insulating foams and they're not flexible at all so I actually did want to hear about it.
Sorry, though, I guess sometimes I get too into it xD

But I'm not even really sure what headliner foam is either? Is it the 'high density' foam that they sell in giant chuncks where you decide how much you want? I've gotten that stuff before but I've never underwater tested it

[Mertara]

oh maaahh GERRRDDD!!! That's genius with the door hinge! So doing that! It shouldn't rust if she is using a gate hinge for outdoors, they don't rust, I'm pretty sure I have all those materials laying around in my garage! Oh man I need to hurry and finish the project I'm in the middle of so I can make one! I will make a bunch of changes that I see her doing that she doesn't need to do but that's bc I am le craft queen :D Thanks for that video!

[Mertara]

Oh geeze sorry!
I didn't mean it in that way at all! I was just seriously curious. The only foams I know that "lock" water out are usually insulating foams and they're not flexible at all so I actually did want to hear about it.
Sorry, though, I guess sometimes I get too into it xD

But I'm not even really sure what headliner foam is either? Is it the 'high density' foam that they sell in giant chuncks where you decide how much you want? I've gotten that stuff before but I've never underwater tested it


XD

Headliner foam is that really thin layer of foam that lines the inside of the roof of your car, its like 1/8" thick. High density foam, the green stuff at joanns would definitely float I think, though I use it for a lot of other costume stuff it probably would not do well for a tail...but I haven't tested it!

The filter foam is also called "open cell" foam, and it looks like this 10262
and comes in different "pores per inch".

It's not about locking the water out, its about the actual fibers taking on water....which is hard to explain XD Cotton and natural fibers get wet, and take on water, like how a cotton washcloth will actually soak up and hold onto water. Synthetic fibers such as polyester or nylon, have no such capability. Now some foams if they have a dense enough pore per square inch ratio, could trap water within the tiny holes in the foam, but they don't actually soak it up. Using a low density foam with fewer pores per inch should let water just pass right through and not bog down, and also not be a pain to dry.

I'm going to test headliner foam first bc it comes in a much bigger size than filter foam, but I don't know the pores per inch of the headliner foam, so I have to test it, and it also has a smoother outer feel, so I won't have to worry about texture showing through under my lycra, whereas if I end up having to use the filter foam, I may have to then do multiple layers of lycra or silicone or something to hide the weird texture of it....but that might not be a bad thing. I don't know, I am still just brain storming it all XD I'm the weird person who plans and plans and plans and does a thousand sketches for 3 months before I even purchase materials, bc I've already worked everything out in my head and know exactly what I am doing at that point...which is mostly bc I'm cheap and don't wanna waste materials on tests, haha.

[Fishboiii]

My tail has 1 inch thick foam in it with a thin silicone layer over the top. The foam is from hobby lobby and it gets really heavy in the water which I like but it's a bit more difficult to swim in which I'm fine with

[Mermaid Arianna]

you could use regular foam and spray it with that flex seal stuff? I spend too much time at the crazy stores. >_< It could work though....

[inactive account]

You could use sponge and then soak it in latex mixed with sand so its more heavy and keeps its buoyancy?

[Mertara]

My tail has 1 inch thick foam in it with a thin silicone layer over the top. The foam is from hobby lobby and it gets really heavy in the water which I like but it's a bit more difficult to swim in which I'm fine with

any idea the name of that foam?

[Jinx]

thanks that is my video! :-D as for the foam. I used an old bed eggcrate piede I had in my attic that was never going to be used. I out lined the curve of my calve on it. floded it to be the size I needed. sealed it in a zip top bag squeezed as much air as I needed to get the shape I needed sealed it covered it in duct tape to be sure it wasn't going to get air inside of it then hand sewed it into the lining of my neoprene wetsuit. if you want more details watch my www.youtube.com/kimberlygbianco. and see my tail journal at http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?2353-Making-my-first-swimable-tail&highlight=jinx

also I used the oldest thickest wetsuit I could find to make the extension because it has body on its own. I got the suit for only 5 cents on ebay as noone seems to want them its easy to find it cheap and get a bargain.



You said you wanted your tail to be longer. This girl is AWESOME.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjFrxbR-ACE&amp;list=PL386AE75CB074DC65
We're going to do something like this for me.

[Jinx]

all the changes are for specific reasons. to keep the alex plus from splitting or ripping. to grt the fin to move freely without weakening the structure and cracking the lexan (which can break no matter how much people say otherwise I know from experience). many other things as well. if you wanf to know why feel free to ask I don't mind. but trust me every decision I made in that is important to fhe life quality and safety of the tail. I am actually adding a few things now and in the process of getting 6 other tails made for a photo shoot for the official opening of my own mermaid tail business I am opening soon.

oh maaahh GERRRDDD!!! That's genius with the door hinge! So doing that! It shouldn't rust if she is using a gate hinge for outdoors, they don't rust, I'm pretty sure I have all those materials laying around in my garage! Oh man I need to hurry and finish the project I'm in the middle of so I can make one! I will make a bunch of changes that I see her doing that she doesn't need to do but that's bc I am le craft queen :D Thanks for that video!

[Sammi Ray]

Surely just add some extra little fins to hide it? Kinda like madisons tail?