Creepers, Mer-verts, collectors.....

[NerineArcticMermaid]

I think its about time we had a thread for this. Too many new mers are under age and unaware of these icky folks. So I think we need to compile a list on know offenders for the newbies to watch out for. These are the know offenders on my page.

G. S. (has multiple accounts under same name Inappropriate P.M. ban/blocked 6 accounts)
C. P. (Inappropiriate comments. Ban/blocked)

(Going with initials to avoid problems...)



Please add to the list so we can keep everyone safe. If you have screen shots of what they have done that will gain them a place on the "Be cautious of them" list plerase also post it.

I understand Ionas point of view. Its very valid. So please. Only list a name if you have a screen shot. I listed these two becasue I have already heard from a number of people about them.


In a ideal world yes... parents would monitor thier children on the internet. But its is not an ideal world and we need to help the younger mers identify possible problems and how to avoid them.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Oo good call. We do need a thread like this. And mark it as important.

Iona, can we, Pleaase?

[Mermaid Tula]

I agree! Please Iona <3

[Phoenix Mermaid]

Ok thank you for posting this! That gordon guy has like 7 accounts liking my fb page. And i was really beginning to wonder. I was getting close to posting something to ask about it.

[Koral]

And so I finally find out about this strange Gordon guy that's given me several likes... doesn't bother me though since he hasn't messaged me... o-o

[Merman Arion]

As a merman who is 24 years old, i don't feel much threatened about these freaks but i'm worried about the young mermaids of this community.
I don't have sisters but here, it's different. We are a mer family and we should stick together. It's our duty to protect them for the danger of the internet.

Iona, Nerine is right. We should have a permanent thread with a list. Could you allow this, please?

Alexis

[Winged Mermaid]

I dunno guys. I get wanting to protect others, and protect the younger mers in the community. But posting names branding people as Merverts/Creeps/ect I don't think is the way to go. I mean, have these men DONE anything to you? Gordon Shagene has multiple accounts, but I've never heard of him harassing anyone. Christopher Perry can come off as a real creeper no doubt, but honestly he's just lonely and maybe even has socialization issues (he tends to have issues with understanding context). If they haven't actually done anything, who are we to decide that they're basically "dirty" because they "seem creepy", and brand them as such to the community?

I don't think this is the way to go. That's like saying that certian mermaids "seem bitchy" so we make a thread to name all those mermaids so everyone can block and stay away from them, and publicly shame them. Does that sound like a good thing to you? What if you were listed as one of those mermaids on such a thread just because someone got a wrong perspective/tone of something you said? Do you see where I'm coming from?

I think a better idea is to educate mermaids, especially merlings, that there are people out there who act deplorably on the internet. After all, they're everywhere! Us mermaids just get a certian type. Teach them how to deal with people like this, because they're everywhere on the net. Don't give out personal information. If you don't want to talk to someone, don't. If you talk to them and decide you're not comfortable, leave/stop messaging them. If they say something offensive or aggressive, use the tools that websites give you- report them, block them, ect. If something happens here report it to an Admin. If someone is on the internet, they take that responsibility into their own hands. If they're under age, that responsibility falls on their parents to monitor what they're doing and educate them about online safety.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Yeah but that's also the equivalent of saying "let's not put up wanted posters of sexual predators around the city because we pity them" ( sorry , that sounded way too extreme)

Parental supervision is one thing but for little fishfrie, who really wants that? in an ideal world they would practice Internet safety, however it's still safer to know who to avoid in the first place. IMO. If I had a person who created multiple accounts to "like my page and post inappropriate comments" I'd want to know who they are.

[Lotus]

would it maybe be more appropriate to simply say "persons to be cautious of" ? In other words, not demonize anyone, but let others know about the ones that could POTENTIALLY become a problem.
I will say that, from personal experience, C.Perry is entirely inappropriate- He relentlessly messaged me making suggestive comments over and over... I gave him the benefit of the doubt at first and just said I was flattered but uninterested because A.) I'm married and B.) He's not, in any way, my type. He kept on, I blocked his ass.

[Ayla of Duluth]

I dunno guys. I get wanting to protect others, and protect the younger mers in the community. But posting names branding people as Merverts/Creeps/ect I don't think is the way to go. I mean, have these men DONE anything to you? Gordon Shagene has multiple accounts, but I've never heard of him harassing anyone.
Wasn't he the one sending inappropriate messages in tinychat whenever someone posted the link to the room on their fanpage? That's harassment right there.

[Arella]

I think the page is a good idea maybe don't label it "merverts" but something more like what Lotus said. It may be insensitive to have a list of people who come across as (or are) creepy or intrusive but as a community I think it is important to protect each other and prevent unwanted undesirable types of attention.

[AniaR]

Yeah but that's also the equivalent of saying "let's not put up wanted posters of sexual predators around the city because we pity them" ( sorry , that sounded way too extreme)

But these guys aren't sexual predators that we know of? Just generally creepy guys.... Legally Iona has to be careful because of slander/libel laws.

I see everyone's point, I just don't have a solution. My best friend emailed me once upset because a man who liked and commented on a lot of my mermaid stuff, went and liked her husband's photography page and commented some weird comments on the photos of the kids :( I moderate mermaid Ama's FB page and I delete so much sexual harassment it isn't even funny. She's underaged!

I think it needs to be talked about and handled, but legally, you can't just say "this person's a pervert" because if they wanted they could press charges for libel. It's a little different if you can post screen shots of the behaviour etc- because then it's not hear-say it's actually discussion about inappropriate behaviour. Get my drift?

[SeaGlass Siren]

No I was applying Iona's logic to the outside world, if we were to come across an individual who imposes themselves on young women, obviously their name would be put out there for the general public. But yeah, legal issues with the whole name calling...I see what you're saying.

No matter how many times you report, they keep coming back like leeches... So I really feel that heir names should be put out there.

[Arella]

I get the legal issues but what if there was just a list with people who have been known to sexually or otherwise harass mermaids with proof along with the names? It would be unnecessary to post names of people who are just generally creepy but overall harmless.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Yeah like in the news ^

[AniaR]

No, it's not like in the news or in real life is my point. In real life, a person's name doesn't go on a list and get released to the public unless they've been charged and found guilty of something in a court of law. So, it's not the same thing. What one person interprets as inappropriate online, another person might laugh at and see as no big deal. For instance, Matthew Morse is a big long time member of the community, who has been supporting mers from the very explosion of mermaids on fb. What happens when he likes someone's page, they see he's liked so many another, and come to this thread and label him a collector? Or one of my fans, Joseph- who has aspergers. He's been a big supporter of me for a long time by the odd comment he's made has made fans uncomfortable because they simply don't understand that he struggles with social appropriateness at times- and he is in no way trying to be a pervert, harass, or a collector. So what happens when someone comes on here and calls him a creeper? Or how about some of the guys on the forum who are comfortable talking about the sexual side of mermaid appreciation when a lot of us aren't? They aren't inappropriate... but it only takes one person taking it the wrong way. Do you see my point?

Having a list on here is NOT the same as the police releasing a list of known sex offenders or paedophiles to the public. Do you see the difference? Do you see how it can cause potential legal problems for the forum and Iona? And honestly... a lot of drama?

I think it's one thing if you can actually prove that someone has said something- then yeah, post away- but choose your words wisely (I have a post on here somewhere about how to avoid the legal implications that can come from slander/libel). But anyone can say someone else said something- and there's been MORE than enough of that, and exploiting of that, going on in the mercommunity right now. Iona is speaking from years of forum work here, all the way back to mer yuku. And there's a few things she's experienced and some of us older members have that have shown that prevention is always the best approach to avoiding big problems. It's not that we're taking your concerns lightly- trust me, I have been the victim of these people for way too long. It's just not as easy a solution as posting a big list of names. That opens up another pandora's box of all sorts of new issues.

[Ayla of Duluth]

I think having a list of people to watch out for is good, but I think we shouldn't post anything besides their names, so we can avoid the slander. Just say something like "I think we should watch out for so and so." not give a reason, just give a name. That way we aren't accusing them of anything specific, which means we aren't slandering their name. Just alerting people to pay more attention to that person.

[SeaGlass Siren]

..I suppose when you put it that way, then yes, that makes a little more sense.

[Arella]

It does but also I don't see why if there is proof they harass people, he forum would be liable for a sort of list or compilation of names/personas.

[Joy&RaptorsUnrestrained!]

Guys, come off it. I'm with Iona and I agree with Raina's arguments, but I have to put my foot down on what a lot of the rest of you are saying. Calling people out on the internet and warning people to "beware of them" in a list, then marking it as important and all that is wrong... a violation of privacy and a prejudice against people for things that might've been taken out of context or the result of poor socialization skills. In fact, it's practically cyber-bullying, in that you're trying to name names and put people in the spotlight, determine how they're viewed (negatively) by others, and deciding their image for them.

Yes, there's a lot of young mermaids here... and according to internet freedom, they are taking the risk of seeing something offensive and getting offensive messages. They have been warned, repeatedly, of the dangers, icky-ness, and threats of the internet, and they will encounter it if they don't exercise caution and self-control, or if they lack parental guidance. That's just the way the internet is... and there are good things about that, since it facilitates the sharing of information freely. On the other hand, stupidity, social awkwardness, and creepiness is magnified by the internet, including the sensation that one is safe and protected and "cloaked" since one is on the other side of a screen, and can therefore act with impunity (this sensation of being untraceable and free is often false, of course, but it is common to all of us). This feeling of secret identity is, for instance, what allows those of us to use screen names and mersonas and icons instead of real names, pictures and web-cams, and I've noticed most of the people on the thread so far do not use pictures of themselves as their icons (including me), and most of those that do are not looking straight at the camera.

If you make a witchhunt list of people to shun, block, etc, and post it online, you're not really solving the problem... obviously, if this Gordon character has at least six profiles under the same name, there's nothing stopping him or people like him (or worse) from making profiles under different names.

[NerineArcticMermaid]

Perhaps just intials of the bothersome people. And if someone isnt sure maybe they can mssage privatly.. "Like was it so and so you were talking about casue i got the smae person... ect.."

[NerineArcticMermaid]

@Joy... he has 6 profiles with same name... and you clearly can tell its him because he uses his own photo. But yes I get your point. I just thought if people were aware of repeat offenders maybe all of sending in reports to FB and other admin on various social groups might eventually get these guys off the pages.

[Joy&RaptorsUnrestrained!]

Nerine, it is a noble idea, however, it's still flawed. Why not just have some thread where you posted "I've had a bad experience with someone whom I think people should look out for, contact me privately if you want the details"? Private, one-on-one conversations allow you to have your say, reach people who are definitely at risk and who seek you out deliberately, and you're not posting anything on the internet for the world to see about a growing list of people who are repeat offenders and so forth?

[AniaR]

Yeah Nerine I know you have good intentions and just watching out for everyone. I don't blame you at all! I just see having a list posted on the forum as something that will cause a lot of problems :( Joy hits the nail on the head.

In my book I actually have a whole chapter dedicated to "the darkside of the mer-world" where I talk about precautions people can take etc. There's no easy fix. I think it's good we talk among ourselves etc, and keep pushing for more respect for our community... I just don't think a list will fix it. I'm not sure what the answer is :( it's certainly annoying as all hell. You should see some of the emails I got this weekend.... lol

[Mermaid Stark]

I agree with Raina, a list isn't going to fix it. Maybe if we just say some ways to just tell them to back off? I mean, we don't have to yell out and tell them that they're pervs or anything, but we can just tell them that we don't know them and they're making us a bit uncomfortable. Like this one time on one of my breath holding videos, this person I don't know who posts videos on "hot babe doing 2:30 breath hold underwater" videos told me that I was a "good girl" to do this and I should keep making more. They also asked me to video chat with them some time. Mind you, I was 12 in the video and am currently 13, so this definitely creeped me out. I just told them that I didn't know them and this was making me feel uncomfortable, and they got very defensive for some reason. They said something along the lines of, "I just want to chat with you!" and I told them the same thing again. Then they started to private message me and I told them just to back off and not message me again. Since then, they haven't bothered me.
Wow, I posted more than I intended to. Sorry guys!

[Nate Walis]

I have to wade in on this one on the side of the argument that Raina has been making, there is a very big difference between it being known casually amongst the mer-community that certain individuals are best not to be trusted and kept at arms length and the act of actually making up a list of people that are then effectively black-balled by potentially dozens of users with an online presence. Innocence may seem out of the question based upon what some of these people have done in the past, but beyond arming fellow members of the community with knowledge of those incidents, each person has to judge their own encounters with those people anew and use their own common sense to keep things from getting out of hand. Beyond the comments that these people have made on FB and other internet forums, we have no real knowledge of their personality or the way they behave in the real world, and there is the danger that starting what amounts to a pogrom against a vile, but in reality mentally vulnerable person could result in something awful happening to them or because of the accusation.

[Nate Walis]

On a side note, I have just unfriended the erstwhile Mr Shegane after realising that I had accepted no less than four different accounts onto my friends list under his name. But then I suppose that as a man who doesn't partake of the costumed aspect of the whole thing, I have less to worry about from the guy than most of the people sharing their opinions around here.

[Lotus]

All good points.... Foina actually started in on what I think may be the solution- perhaps we could compile some warning signs; or "behaviors to be aware of". It would be useful for younger mers who are maybe a little naive to recognize behavior in people that could become problematic later. Also, without the use of names, share experiences and how you dealt with them. Raise situational awareness. yes? no?

[Mermaid Stark]

Lotus: Yeah, that's what I was going for. Maybe if someone is in one of those situations, we can all just give some advice on what to do. We don't have to give names, usernames, etc, but we can give the circumstances of the situation. We can give ideas on what to tell them so that we don't offend them, but at the same time, we just tell them to keep their distance and thoughts to themselves.

[Alveric]

It's good to remember that when it comes to law suits, even a victory can leave you financially ruined.

Keep it general, don't name names unless you have evidence to back it up. And if you do have clear evidence, don't go to Iona, go to the authorities.

[Arella]

Lotus may be on to something, guidelines are better then a black list. Kind of a stranger danger for mermaids?

[Stede Bonnet]

.... For instance, Matthew Morse is a big long time member of the community, who has been supporting mers from the very explosion of mermaids on fb. What happens when he likes someone's page, they see he's liked so many another, and come to this thread and label him a collector? ....

Thank you, Raina. I was starting to creep myself out a little bit! Actually, that is no laughing matter, because when one questions his role in a community, that can be quite disenfranchising.

That said, I looked up the two gentlemen whose behavior spurred this conversation, as well as a man from England with three profiles, and two "women" who use stock images to represent themselves. In each case, I have numerous mutual friends.

Pardon me for doing this, but I have been around long enough to know Nerine's human alter-ego's name, and I cross-checked to see if she and GS (on what appears to be his first account) had any mutual friends: there are thirteen.

"Friendship" suggests validation, and as long as these individuals have, or perceive that they have, friends within the mer-community, they will never go away. Even if they do, there will be numerous others to take their place.

[AniaR]

I think Fiona has a great idea, and I want you all to know (and I hope I'm not being annoying and pushy here) that I've written a whole chapter in my book with ideas fre dealing with that sort of behaviour too, and how to recognize it, and how to get the law involved etc.

Matthew I hope I didn't make you uncomfortable using you as an example, I've just known you for so long and knew you know so many mers that I could easily see someone not investing much time and making an assumption.

Fiona- I'm really sorry that guy kept bugging you block him right away.

Matthew brings up an excellent point, one of the BIG signs of an iffy account is them using stock photos. That's a red flag right there.

So how about we compile a list of the "warning signs/red flags" and then a list of the "how to handle it" and possibly a legal reference list? (e.g. how to get help)

[telzey.amberdon]

Some people do find mermaids attractive, at what level do they become verts?

[Mermaid Varshana]

Think of it this way: picture someone you're not into approaching you in public. At what point would that be inappropriate to you...or your underage child or sibling?

[Nate Walis]

Some people do find mermaids attractive, at what level do they become verts?

There's a very easily defined boundary in this case, it's when they start allowing the desires that exist in their minds to become manifest in the real world and begin to press them onto others who are clearly not inviting such attentions...it's really not hard to understand.

[Alveric]

Some people do find women attractive, at what level do they become verts?

The answer to Telzey's question is the same as the answer to this one. When the attention is uninvited and unwelcome and they won't accept 'leave me alone!' as a response.

[Mermaid Varshana]

It's slightly worrisome to me that someone wouldn't understand when their advances are unwanted or inappropriate... maybe this is how catcalling from cars is still a thing.

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[SeaGlass Siren]

It's slightly worrisome to me that someone wouldn't understand when their advances are unwanted or inappropriate... maybe this is how catcalling from cars is still a thing.

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^ this.

[MerEmma]

Off topic, but Kakarotte, I love the gif in your signature. :P

[Mermaid Varshana]

I KNOW. Isn't it stinkin' ADORBZ? I saw it and I almost went into diabetic shock from how sweet it is ^^;

[Mermaid Dottie]

Oh, gosh! I love Louis and Cleo♥.

[NerineArcticMermaid]

This is great.. my idea may have been the pits but it spurred us into some good directions..

I like the "Warning Signs" list. That is fantasitc idea...

@matthew... Im rather creeped out that G.S. and I have mutual friends. I will remedy that forthwith. Cant imagine who we would have in mutual friendship.. but 13 of them??? Are these mutuals on my personal page?

[Stede Bonnet]

Matthew I hope I didn't make you uncomfortable using you as an example, I've just known you for so long and knew you know so many mers that I could easily see someone not investing much time and making an assumption.

Matthew brings up an excellent point, one of the BIG signs of an iffy account is them using stock photos. That's a red flag right there.

No worries, Raina! It’s all good. Actually, I really appreciate your using me as a point of reference. :)


@matthew... Im rather creeped out that G.S. and I have mutual friends. I will remedy that forthwith. Cant imagine who we would have in mutual friendship.. but 13 of them??? Are these mutuals on my personal page?

I’ll send you a private message with the details. Heck, I have 17 mutual friends with that profile, and 18, 15, 12, and 4 with four of his other profiles. I can’t seem to find the sixth profile, and I have no idea how much overlap there is among those 17, 18, 15, 12, and 4 – because that would mean making five lists and cross-referencing them, and that seems kind of unhealthy on MY part. lol

[NerineArcticMermaid]

well I have them all blocked and cannot see them now. I did miss 2 of his accounts. He has been reported for multiple accounts by the way.. I did managed ti widdle down to only 6 mutuals. Im afraid theres a few mers that I had to remove.. Ill just have t stick with anone wanting to keep in touch will just have to do so through my nerine page. Cant have a potential problem like him create issues with me so close to becoming a teacher... (7 classes left!)

But thanks for the heads up!



********

As for the "warnings list" yes lets do that! Warning signs for potential problems would make much more sense and be less of a liable issue.

[Lotus]

I'll kick this off by saying first and foremost to NOT BLINDLY ACCEPT FRIEND REQUESTS. Cross reference if you gotta, but at least take a minute to check out their page for obvious warning signs like stock photos.

[Mermaid Tula]

Lotus, I agree with you. I have had several people try to friend request me who I have no idea of who they are. I tend to check their profile, check to see if we have any common friends, and stuff like that.

There is an issue when you have a facebook page. People can like your page with out needing permission. I have a small amount of people who like my page, so I'm still at the point where I get excited when I get a new notification that something's happened to my page. (Likes, comments, new people who like the page, etc.)

So one thing I recommend to all mers who have a facebook page, check who likes your pages at least once or twice a week.

[NerineArcticMermaid]

I check out all my new likes.. Everytime I get a new one... Im making sure theres no iffy stuff.
Also Im admin of a FB group Merpalooza... I double check each and everyone of thepeople who request being added. Dont need spammers or oddballs gumming up the group feed and going free for all on the members list.

[AniaR]

you can change your FB settings so that friends of friends can't see your stuff or your posts. That's how I've got mine set, only people who also have me friended can see when someone comments etc. You also can set it so when you tag someone they get an alert but it doesn't show up on their profile etc. There's great ways around it.

The only bummer thing is that FB now lets total strangers message you, it goes to the "other" folder, whereas before you could set it so only friends could message you. I remember a time when you could turn friend requests off!

Marking the "don't know outside of FB" field when a creeper sends you a request will also put a flag on their account.

Here are some of the settings I use that helps me avoid these issues:

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Also, when you make a post, you can uncheck the box that says friends of friends can see stuff that's tagged etc.

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[Lotus]

Thanks for doing a visual of that Raina, it really helps!