LED or UV paint?

[melbel1023]

Ok, I have this awesome tail idea, but I need help figuring out some things.
I'm a big fan of skeletons - especially Mexico's day of the dead style. Here's my sketches:

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I want to use Neoprene only, with a white fabric for the bones.
Now, here is where I am stuck:<br>Should I use UV paint or LED lights?
I'm crazy partial to the LED lights, but the options for submersible LED lights are limited to candle tealights and fishing lights...And those are either not-long-lasting, they flash (I want on-steady lights), or they aren't the color i want (fishing lights tend to be bright green/blue/red). Real LEDs are either battery operated or need to be plugged in, both can result in a mess of safety issues when introduced to water...
Someone on my FB suggested embedding the LED lights in latex/silicone and making a waterproof case for the battery pack. I LOVE that idea, but I have no idea how to do either of those! Any suggestions?

The other option is choosing UV paint and swimming under a black light. Its inexpensive, but its not exactly what I want.

I want the option to turn on my lights whenever, and not to be inconvenienced by too much light or not enough black light. I NEED HELP!

[Spindrift]

Ah. I believe that LEDs are totally up in my alley. I know how to wire them up and encasing them to be waterproof (did so for an engineering project where some friends and I made a bicycle-powered battery the size of a small waterbottle) wouldn't recommend using them for your idea though, because your design features clean long lines. Since LEDs are only in dots, it wouldn't be smooth.

Your other option is EL lights but I would only recommend using that if you are going to have the pattern on only one side because EL cannot take pressure well and will break if you ever sit on them. One of my tails has glow in the dark paint on it. So that would probably be your best bet, along with UV paint. Make sure you have a sealant over it though, so it doesn't leach out into the water or fade. I highly doubt lighting would ever be much of a problem. You could always use white paint to lay out the design first, before applying the paint so that it shines brighter.

[AniaR]

<a href="http://www.ledroadwaylighting.com/test-videos.html" target="_blank">http://www.ledroadwaylighting.com/test-videos.html</a><br>
<br>
I was trying to link you this about their lights <br>
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I dont know how safe you could be putting them in something meant for water since the type of light you're looking for is higher quality (so they arent blue) and more expensive. But it doesnt take much battery power to run them for a VERY long time.<br><br>p.s. that first video is my BF hurling that thing off the roof. lol

[melbel1023]

I'm thinking I might put the lights on only one side, and have my monofin removable so I can flip the skeleton part on the opposite side if i felt like it.
i know El Wires are the look I really want - but they also have a battery pack. Could I make a waterproof casing for that, though?

[Spindrift]

The way I would personally approach it would be to not use the given battery pack at all, but to re-wire it into a casing that I do find suitable. But if you don't know how to code an Arduino or solder them that may be difficult. I guess what you could try is that you could cover it in silicone, but you wouldn't be able to change the batteries then. My other idea is to get one of those underwater camera casings and cut a hole into it to feed the wire through... then seal up that hole. However your design would need a separate battery pack for each time the lines branch off (like on the fin), otherwise there would be double lines, and those battery packs aren't that small. You'd also have to fit them somewhere where it wouldn't cause awkward bulky bulges.

[melbel1023]

Hm, very true....*sigh*

[melbel1023]

I think if I do UV paint, I might not paint the white first - this way its kinda a surprise/shock to see them glow.

[Spindrift]

Do some test swatches first :) We'll definitely figure out a way.

[melbel1023]

What about these? These lights are used for putting them in water-filled floral vases.

http://www.koyalwholesale.com/pages-productinfo-product-2246/submersible_floralytes_decorative_accent_lighting_ 10_colors.html?zenid=293fa64f9b758ea19c7e257b7f2df 1ce

http://www.koyalwholesale.com/pages-productinfo-category-285_1105-product-6395/floralytes_and_lightsfloralytes_and_submersible_li ghtsfloralytes_ii_reusable_decorative_accent_light ing_10_colors_best_seller.html?zenid=46e3018fe3954 803362f119875077db6

I know I would nee a lot of them... but what do you all think?

[Spindrift]

Floralytes are the same kind of LEDs you mentioned in the first post. If they run out of battery, they're done for, which mean they are only one time use. If you are okay with replacing them every time you use them, and can figure out a way to sew them in such a way to make them easy to switch out, they'll be fine. And from memory, so this may be wrong, I believe they only turn on when they touch water.

[melbel1023]

the Floralyte II has a replaceable battery and has an on/off switch. I also found something called VineLyte, which I might order once I get some cash flow.

[AniaR]

battery does last super long though for good LEDs. because the LEDs use so much less battery power. Im going to ask my BF if I can take a photo of one of his smaller test units. I dont know what I can legally post online and it may be a bit (we're in the middle of moving) but I'll see what I can do.

What I was saying (or trying to) on the chat is be careful with approaching companies regardless of your story they will believe you to be a rival company scoping them out

[Spindrift]

@Raina: I wasn't there for the chat so I'm not sure if my comment is relevant or not, but Floralytes are hardly a trade secret. :| But yeah, generally you are correct. And yes, LEDs are awesome. :)

@melbel: Yes, I believe the girl I'm doing mermaiding with has 4 Floralyte IIs on her tail. I have no idea how they are working out for her though - but I guess I can shoot her an email to ask even though she's on travel.
You'll have to get a lot of them to complete your design, and figure out a way to turn them all on before you swim and turn them all off again, if you're using the switch. You're lines will also be slightly broken, in that it'll be a bunch of speckled light dots. If you are fine with the hassle though, I would say go for it.

[Spindrift]

I've never considered VineLyte before, but after Googling it, you might be better off just using LED ribbon rope, or something, if you're going to go through the trouble of using VineLyte.

[melbel1023]

Why do you say that? Doesn't a ribbon rope light need to be plugged in? The VineLyte is 100% submersible, even the battery pack.

[Toxotes]

What i made good experiences with, is LEDs flat at the border of a shee of acrylic glass, glued into drilled holes.
Maybe you could use small LEDs (3 millimeters diameter) and lay them into a layer of clear silicone which forms your "skeleton", all ontop of your Neoprene Tail.
This would be almost invisible and you could switch it on and off as you wish.
Of course, the LEDs, the wiring and of course the battery pack has to be made waterproof.
Just an idea...

[Spindrift]

I'm pretty sure I've seen the rope used underwater. I have no experience with VineLyte, so I guess I shouldn't really open my big mouth about it. But then in that case does this mean you would be okay with having dotted lines? Either way, I would love to hear how your results turn out.

[Mermaid Photine]

I've done a bit of research on glow in the dark things that are submergible in water (I watched Atlantis: the lost Empire when I was little- it was my favourite video, and a couple years ago I wanted to make their glowing crystal necklaces. I never did, though.)

I've found this forum on making things glow: http://www.glowforum.com/
and this site that sells glow powder and paints: http://glowinc.com/glowinc.com/

I'd love to put this information to use myself one day. I hope you find a solution. Your idea sounds awesome!

[Capt Nemo]

LED's are super easy to seal! Once the wires are soldered, use heat shrink tubing that has the hot melt adhesive in it. It will both seal the wire and LED at the same time.

Look for blacklight/UV LED's. Most go into white or other colors to fire the phosphor creating the color. If you did a really thick ALEX tail you could embed the wires/LED's into the clear material, and then do the scales over the top, and paint over that with glow or UV paint/ALEX mix.

[melbel1023]

SO EXCITED! I just bought my neoprene (at Joann's for 50% off - so $10 per yard!), now I just have to wait for my financial aid so I can order my lights! I decided I'm going to order 1 vinelyte, 1 aqualyte, and 1 tea light and play with those. I will updates on my tail-making journey here =D

[Merman Chatfish]

The way I would personally approach it would be to not use the given battery pack at all, but to re-wire it into a casing that I do find suitable. But if you don't know how to code an Arduino or solder them that may be difficult. I guess what you could try is that you could cover it in silicone, but you wouldn't be able to change the batteries then. My other idea is to get one of those underwater camera casings and cut a hole into it to feed the wire through... then seal up that hole. However your design would need a separate battery pack for each time the lines branch off (like on the fin), otherwise there would be double lines, and those battery packs aren't that small. You'd also have to fit them somewhere where it wouldn't cause awkward bulky bulges.

Spindrift you seem like an electronics nerd so let me bounce this idea off you. Something I would like to do for the tips of my tail is have two small LED lights, each running off a button battery (3V) and a 100Ω resistor.

Now as for melbel1023's tail, what if for the tail she made with something like http://www.amazon.com/Triangle-Bulbs-3528-IP65-White-60L-Waterproof-Flexible/dp/B005EHHLD8. One meter is 4.8 watts or 2500 mA. A 3 volt CR2032 button battery has a capacity of 420 mAh. To get to the 12 V needed for these strips, you would need 4 of these button batteries in series. This would give you about 1.5 hours of run time and be solid. If you wire multiple series in parallel you can increase run time. As for where the batteries go and still be flexable, here is my thought. Take a ziplock bag and on the sealed end you put two small holes to run wires thru, and use hot glue to seal them. Inside the bag take some paper and tinfoil and make it like this:
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excuse the bad drawing but the red and black things are the battery cells, red being the positive side. The dark blue are tinfoil strips glued on the paper to make a series. The orange is the paper, and the cyan is glue going from paper to tinfoil. The transparent cyan is just showing you would then glue the edges, though on one side you would leave a hole for the batteries to go in and out. This would be thin and flexible. If at each end you folded the tinfoil to the other side of the paper, you could wire each strip in parallel for longer run time. Because of the thinness and flexibility, you could put it in the little hole against the tail between your legs, or if you can get down to it on the mono fin. Then you can run the wires to each LED strip. For ease you could get a very small connector.

What do you think? Am I crazy or just nuts?

PS. I know this thread is 3 years old. Have you tried something and how did it turn out?