Lotion for Silicone Tail Lubricant

[Mermaid Kalliope]

Okay... I recently purchased a full silicone performance tail from Merbella Studios Inc. (No, I will not be posting my design. You all are just gonna hafta wait. :-P ) and I've been doing vigorous research to the best of my ability for care and whatnot.

Now, I have concluded that the following are good for lubrication when getting into the tail:

Baby Oil

Non-fragrant lotion

(Top 2)

I have a lotion that is called Vanicream that is free of a bunch of stuff, but the ingredients leave me a bit perplexed.

I know that Petroleoum is bad for latex. But is it also bad for silicone?

Well, the ingredients are listed below:

purified water, white petrolatum, sorbitol solution, cetearyl alcohol, propylene glycol, ceteareth-20, simethicone, glyceryl monostearate, polyethylene glycol monostearate, sorbic acid and BHT

If any of that makes sense to anyone, please help. >< I'm going to try to google some of them, but honestly a lot of it just ends up confusing me.

Thanks in advanced! <3

[Arella]

I'm pretty sure anything with petroleum in it, I just looked at lotion labels until I found a petroleum free lotion.

[Winged Mermaid]

I did some extensive research myself (http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?3783-Merbellas-Thread&p=68890&viewfull=1#post68890), turning the safe search off and reaching to the depths of the internet.. cause really, you can't find answers on this any other way. What my research turned up was that petroleum is fine on silicone, but mineral oil isn't. Baby oil is just mineral oil and fragrance. I won't be using it on my tail. I would say go with water based lube, but also from reserach it's way to expensive to use all the time unfortunately :/ Though I did find people trolling the crap out of a 55 gallon drum of water based lube for over $1000 on amazon. That was funny XP What I would do: research what other names mineral oil can be called on an ingredient list and make sure any lotion you use doesn't have that. Honestly I could be wrong but I spent hours scouring the net and that's what I came up with. There just isn't enough information for people who use dragonskin silicone as frequently as we do, and with how hard they get beaten in being used, and the sheer amount of silicone being used, ect. Just going on what I can find.

[Winged Mermaid]

I kind of wonder if using vegetable oil would be okay. I mean, it's not mineral oil, not petroleum based. I've been told not to use any kind of oil with latex and latex based (neoprene) as it will damage it, but haven't seen anything about silicone. I dunno, maybe I just need to call smooth on and bombard them with questions XP

[Aziara]

Hmm...I don't know about silicone, but I know castor oil is ok on latex... people use it as a 'base layer' when painting elf ears with normal makeup so the makeup doesn't hurt the latex. *shrugs*

[Mer_Adella]

I always assumed that when you wanted the tail on just wiggle in, if you needed to get in use fragerence free lotion, and if swimming get the tail wet as well as legs....?

[Mermaid Dottie]

I know that when Lei Loni puts her tail on, she uses just a spray bottle of water.
What about a mild soap? would that be a bad idea?

[AptaMer]

I know that when Lei Loni puts her tail on, she uses just a spray bottle of water.
What about a mild soap? would that be a bad idea?

Freedivers who wear the neoprene suits with smooth rubber on the inside have the same issue of sticking and needing a lubricant. Some get in the water to put the suit on, it slides right on when both you and the suit are wet. That doesn't work so nicely when the water is really cold, though :)

Also, freedivers make soap solutions or dilute down some kinds of hair conditioner to help get their suits on. I've tried this, works pretty well, but you have to use a lot of conditioner and it ends up being kind of pricey. I found soap tended to make my skin dry. I'm not sure if using soap regularly is a good idea?

Also, there's a special solution called SuitSlip sold by a store that specializes in spearfishing gear. http://speargearshop.com/item-suitslip.html

I got a bottle of this stuff and it is amazing. The best stuff for getting into rubber of anything I've tried, although I haven't tried it with silicone. A bottle lasts for a long time too.

[Arella]

I've wondered about tea tree oil as an anti-bacterial on silicone? I use it on my yoga mat but I'm much more protective of my tail...

[Mermaid Kalliope]

Haha Iona, I love you. I have read that post and I did read some of the comments out loud! My roommate and I were laughing so much.

Well, I have this fantastic aloe cream that is 100% natural and doesn't seem to have oils, but it's expensive. x.x

We do have the Orange County Fair coming up, and I can talk to different companies about their products and maybe even promote if it ends up working! :-P

[Winged Mermaid]

Hmm...I don't know about silicone, but I know castor oil is ok on latex... people use it as a 'base layer' when painting elf ears with normal makeup so the makeup doesn't hurt the latex. *shrugs*

Interesting! However I wouldn't assume that means it's okay on silicone. Things that are okay on latex tend to be not okay on silicone and vice versa.



I know that when Lei Loni puts her tail on, she uses just a spray bottle of water.

That's pretty smart! When you don't have water to get it on in, bring water with you! I'll have to see if this would work for my tail or not!



Freedivers who wear the neoprene suits with smooth rubber on the inside have the same issue of sticking and needing a lubricant. Some get in the water to put the suit on, it slides right on when both you and the suit are wet. That doesn't work so nicely when the water is really cold, though :)

Also, freedivers make soap solutions or dilute down some kinds of hair conditioner to help get their suits on. I've tried this, works pretty well, but you have to use a lot of conditioner and it ends up being kind of pricey. I found soap tended to make my skin dry. I'm not sure if using soap regularly is a good idea?

Also, there's a special solution called SuitSlip sold by a store that specializes in spearfishing gear. http://speargearshop.com/item-suitslip.html

I got a bottle of this stuff and it is amazing. The best stuff for getting into rubber of anything I've tried, although I haven't tried it with silicone. A bottle lasts for a long time too.

I know Mertailor tells his customers to use cheap V05 conditioner to get into his tails, but I agree with what the Suit Slip people have to say about that. Also he was the one using and telling other to use vaseline to lubricate needles when sewing neoprene and latex tails (a HUGE no no for both those materials!), so I'm really iffy on that.

I like the sound of that stuff! I think I'll shoot them an email and see what they say about using it on dragonskin.



I've wondered about tea tree oil as an anti-bacterial on silicone? I use it on my yoga mat but I'm much more protective of my tail...

Tea tree oil is an essential oil, and in herb studies and dealing with essential oil companies both, we're taught that they eat away at and damage plastic. It also clings to plastic like no one's business, so that makes it doubly worse. I've seen evidence of this when I put lemon essential oil in my waterbottle- it was a nice camelbak one, and I ended up having to recycle it and get a new one :/ For that reason I wouldn't personally use it on a tail.



Haha Iona, I love you. I have read that post and I did read some of the comments out loud! My roommate and I were laughing so much.


Right?? When I found that hubby and I could NOT stop laughing :rotfl:

[Mermaid Kalliope]

I know that getting the tail on IN the water is the best, but at a beach... I'm worried about sand getting in. I mean... with a board I can swim WAY out past the churned sand, wiggle in, then swim back as a mermaid! (Ha ha! Could you imagine the kids' faces) But, I don't know how practical that would be. :-/ Merph.

I did finally try the in water method with my long wetsuit (Which is a TINY bit too small, but doesn't squeeze the life out of me, either) and it was AMAZING. I have never put my wetsuit on so quickly! It is my go to method for putting it on from now on, but I did get sand in it a bit, but having openings, it got washed out. Mermaid tails.... not so many openings for sand to "wash out". Also, can those granules wear away or embed themselves in the silicone?

[Winged Mermaid]

I have yet to see anyone mention problems with sand imbedding in silicone, so I don't think so. I think it's just a pain to get off cause silicone is so sticky. Raina I think still uses the soft body brush to aid with that. I'll be getting me one of those for sure :)

Water is the best way to go from what I've heard from everyone. Sometimes that's just not an option though. I shot the Suit Slip people an email about if it's save to use on silicone or not (and specified it was very important they be sure as they're $3k+ suits)- I'll let you guys know if/when I hear back :)

[Mermaid Kalliope]

Yay! Well, for a mer who's broke... I think I'll lean towards a spray bottle with water until something definitve. Haha ♥♥

[Mermaid Isabela]

Ahahaha... Not getting sand in your tail.... *Dies*

I hate sand. HATE HATE. I don't like the feel of it and it sticks to EVERYTHING. So when we went to do the beach photoshoot I brought a big blanket and laid it on the sand while I put my tail. Success! No sand. That was until I got into the water. There were piles of sand EVERYWHERE when I took my tail off. Lol! But the actual silicone was as good as new. *I carefully inspected EVERY inch of my tail afterwards since I got so banged up against rocks and stuff. That thing's DURABLE!!*

Anyway, I hear that a little bit of waterbased lubricants are the way to go!

[Mermaid Kalliope]

Well, other than parties and events, this tail will be mostly ocean use and most of the beaches I go to have showers near by or fairly calm surf. One beach even has a concrete area! I can just lay down a yoga mat and bam!

When money isn't an issue I'll go with water based lubes. Haha it's just a clear gel, right? Nothing weird about it at all. Haha

[Winged Mermaid]

Here's what I got in reply from them:

"Hello and thanks for your inquiry.
Yes, SuitSlip is compatible with silicone and silicone blend materials. As it is not petroleum based there is no material degragation from its use. The trademarked formulation is free of all solids that would abrade a material such as neoprene, latex and silicon and uses water as the carrier for the ingredients that are also safe for prolonged skin contact.

SuitSlip is currently used by several performers wearing costumes such as you describe and they've been very happy with the performance and longevity of their costumes as a result.


Please let me know if I can help you further.



Sven Anderson

speargearshop"

I didn't mention they were costumes either, I just mentioned they were essentially suits made out of 100% medical grade platinum (dragonskin) silicone. Leads me to think perhaps other mermaids are indeed using this stuff.

I think I'll try the spray water bottle method too before investing in anything else! This stuff would be way more cost efficient than water based lube that that turns out not to work so well though.

[AptaMer]

Silicone based lubricants are supposed to be safe for all silicone rubbers, in fact for all the other ones like latex and neoprene too. They tend to be very pricey when you buy them retail though.

I'm looking into a place where you can buy it much cheaper.

[Ayla of Duluth]

I use lubriderm.

[spottedcatfish]

So it looks like this SuitSlip stuff, which can be bought here: http://www.makospearguns.com/product-p/msuitslip.htm Is a good choice for both silicone and neoprene tails?

[AptaMer]

Hi SpottedCatfish, well I've used it for neoprene and it works great for that. I haven't tried it for silicone, but Mr. Anderson seems to be saying it's also good for silicone, and that other people have been using it with silicone.

[Winged Mermaid]

Silicone based lubricants are supposed to be safe for all silicone rubbers, in fact for all the other ones like latex and neoprene too.

You have to be VERY careful using silicone based lubes on silicone. The general rule is to NEVER do it becuase it can not only degrade it and make holes in it, but MELT the silicone, turning it gummy and ruining it permanently! From what I understand the reaction can be immediate depending on the materials in both- so once it gets on there, there's no going back.

From my understanding you can only use specific grade silicone lubes on specific grades of silicone or run that risk. Most people don't know the difference between the grades of silicone in the lube and the grades of actual silicone it's being used on. All it would take would be misunderstanding, or a dishonest lube seller or manufacturer, or even tailmaker, and you can end up with a ruined tail. Plus the good silicone lube that would be compatible is expensive. I would be extremely wary of anyone offering to sell it cheaper. That's the reason most all people, articles/educational materials, and manufacturers will tell people the same thing- stay away from silicone lubes on silicone. People are determined to find compatibility do spot tests (with said expensive specialized lubes) on areas that aren't really used, but sometimes these will fail leading to a spot of silicone that is ruined. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to risk a weak or ruined spot on my $3500 tail for that. I'd advise to just stay away from silicone on silicone all together.

[Mermaid Kalliope]

SuitSlip seems like a great option! ^_^ I definitely would love to look into it in the future! :-D Thanks so much Iona! And thanks Aptamer for letting us know about it!

[AptaMer]

You have to be VERY careful using silicone based lubes on silicone. The general rule is to NEVER do it becuase it can not only degrade it and make holes in it, but MELT the silicone, turning it gummy and ruining it permanently! From what I understand the reaction can be immediate depending on the materials in both- so once it gets on there, there's no going back.


Ooops! Scratch that idea :thinks:

Thanks for the heads-up, Winged Mermaid!

[spottedcatfish]

Hi SpottedCatfish, well I've used it for neoprene and it works great for that. I haven't tried it for silicone, but Mr. Anderson seems to be saying it's also good for silicone, and that other people have been using it with silicone.

Thanks AptaMer. I'll have to look into it. I'm making a neoprene tail so I'm sure this will help out!

[AptaMer]

Hi Spotted Catfish, Just thought I'd mention that with neoprene, its behavior is kind of different depending on whether you have nylon lining or unlined smoothskin rubber on the inside.

IME, if you have smoothskin rubber on the inside, it's better to be wet, both on your skin and the suit, and if you're dry you have to use a lubricant like SuitSlip to get in. I find that lubricants are a big help even if you're wet.

OTOH, when you have nylon lining on the inside, I find that if both your skin and the suit are dry, you can slide in without any lubricant. I've also found that nylon-lycra/spandex lining slides on easier than regular nylon lining.

If you or your suit (or tail) gets wet, though, I find the lining sticks to your skin, and you have to use lubricant to get into it. So their behaviors are kind of opposite to each other.

The other thing I've found is that while nylon lining protects the foam neoprene and helps it last much longer. it reduces the softness and srtetchiness of neoprene material substantially, so while you probably want nylon lining on the outside of your suit or tail for durability, and for ease of colouring and decorating, using neoprene with lining on just one side and having smoothskin on the inside will result in a more comfortable costume, with less water circulation.