Camera Questions- Shooting Underwater!

[Greg]

Hello
My name is Greg Amptman I wanted to start a thread for those of you who have already done some underwater shoots but may have have questions about what type of cameras to use, lighting, exposures and PhotoShop techniques, etc, etc.
I have been a SCUBA diver and underwater photographer for 13 years and have had my work featured on Discovery Channel, PBS, Shark Diver Magazine, Tail Flip and Mutiny Magazine.
Please feel free to ask any questions you may have and I will do my best to answer them.
I am looking forward to getting to know you all.
Greg

[AniaR]

GREG IT'S SO AWESOME YOU'RE HERE, YAY.

So, my partner and I for the longest time have been using a dinky point and shoot. We actually get great results from it, even in low light. We decided to upgrade and buy a bag based housing system (after lots of research we opted for Opteka since they're so high on the rating scale) for our canon t3i and test it out- the intent being that when we use it it wouldn't be in open water, just pools etc. (I wouldn't trust it snorkelling etc, even though it has a high rating)

The bag itself is meant to fit all size DSLRs which meant ours was fairly small and gave us extra room in the bag. We put a weighted bean bag in it (it also didn't sink without weight haha) but our main problem is that the lens part of the bag is like an according and extends. We couldn't get it to stay back for our 50mm or our 35mm which let in more light than our sport lens. So more often than not, the camera would focus on the lens from the bag, instead of what was outside it.

Here's a pic of me using it:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/936891_618063928228354_1735121256_n.jpg

Anyway, we found that images taken in a shallow lit pool (indoors) were pretty much a right off. There's no room for the flash to pop, and the water was so warm it was too cloudy to show anything

When we tried the deeper pool, again indoors, and lit only from the pool's lights, we could get GREAT white balance, far better than what we got with our point and shoot. But sometimes that pesky accordion lens showed up in photos, and almost every single image turned out too blurry.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/947024_618073294894084_1195686851_n.jpg

As far as shutter speed etc, we manually adjusted the exposure to have it spot on each time we went for a shot, and played around with different ISOs. I did expect the higher ISO's to be grainy, but it didn't seem to matter what speed etc we used, we always ended up with blurry images. EVEN when being perfectly still...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/983680_618072334894180_967351917_n.jpg


SO my conclusion, after all that experience, is I think we did not have enough light. It was expensive to rent the pool for the whole experience. I mean basically it was intended as a learning curb. I am the photographer, my mertender takes all the cues from me. He's learning fast, but he's barely been shooting a year and doesn't always understand the terminology etc (I've been trying to convince him to take a class or watch some tutorials! but I don't want to scare him off of taking photos either)

The video we took also had great exposure and white balance, but again, it was blurry even though we tried to manually focus while taping.

I am thinking we need to try again in an OUTDOOR pool during a sunny day, just to see the difference in focusing with more light. We did try auto focus and manual, and we used the LCD screen to live view the images as we did them (which slowed it down sometimes) instead of always relying on the viewfinder.

So I guess a few questions:

1. Do you have any experiences, or suggestions, or even recommended reading to help us figure out the bag-type housings (or opteka in general?)

2. Do you agree with my observation that the problem is probably not enough light? If not- what do you think might have been our issue?

3. If you agree it's light, are their any cheap alternatives, or in a jam fixes for buying or making lights to use underwater? My partner constructs LED Streetlights, so we might be able to re-create something in our home, or fashion something so it can go underwater, but I am wondering if lights are something you can rent from a camera place or something (underwater ones)

4. Any other tips for us amatures? There are NO currently active underwater photographers in my province, so we're teaching ourselves here



I have a behind the scenes video that shows everything we're trying:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw6ekCVwr7k

[Greg]

GREG IT'S SO AWESOME YOU'RE HERE, YAY.

So, my partner and I for the longest time have been using a dinky point and shoot. We actually get great results from it, even in low light. We decided to upgrade and buy a bag based housing system (after lots of research we opted for Opteka since they're so high on the rating scale) for our canon t3i and test it out- the intent being that when we use it it wouldn't be in open water, just pools etc. (I wouldn't trust it snorkelling etc, even though it has a high rating)

The bag itself is meant to fit all size DSLRs which meant ours was fairly small and gave us extra room in the bag. We put a weighted bean bag in it (it also didn't sink without weight haha) but our main problem is that the lens part of the bag is like an according and extends. We couldn't get it to stay back for our 50mm or our 35mm which let in more light than our sport lens. So more often than not, the camera would focus on the lens from the bag, instead of what was outside it.

Here's a pic of me using it:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/936891_618063928228354_1735121256_n.jpg

Anyway, we found that images taken in a shallow lit pool (indoors) were pretty much a right off. There's no room for the flash to pop, and the water was so warm it was too cloudy to show anything

When we tried the deeper pool, again indoors, and lit only from the pool's lights, we could get GREAT white balance, far better than what we got with our point and shoot. But sometimes that pesky accordion lens showed up in photos, and almost every single image turned out too blurry.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/947024_618073294894084_1195686851_n.jpg

As far as shutter speed etc, we manually adjusted the exposure to have it spot on each time we went for a shot, and played around with different ISOs. I did expect the higher ISO's to be grainy, but it didn't seem to matter what speed etc we used, we always ended up with blurry images. EVEN when being perfectly still...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/983680_618072334894180_967351917_n.jpg


SO my conclusion, after all that experience, is I think we did not have enough light. It was expensive to rent the pool for the whole experience. I mean basically it was intended as a learning curb. I am the photographer, my mertender takes all the cues from me. He's learning fast, but he's barely been shooting a year and doesn't always understand the terminology etc (I've been trying to convince him to take a class or watch some tutorials! but I don't want to scare him off of taking photos either)

The video we took also had great exposure and white balance, but again, it was blurry even though we tried to manually focus while taping.

I am thinking we need to try again in an OUTDOOR pool during a sunny day, just to see the difference in focusing with more light. We did try auto focus and manual, and we used the LCD screen to live view the images as we did them (which slowed it down sometimes) instead of always relying on the viewfinder.


So I guess a few questions:

1. Do you have any experiences, or suggestions, or even recommended reading to help us figure out the bag-type housings (or opteka in general?)

2. Do you agree with my observation that the problem is probably not enough light? If not- what do you think might have been our issue?

3. If you agree it's light, are their any cheap alternatives, or in a jam fixes for buying or making lights to use underwater? My partner constructs LED Streetlights, so we might be able to re-create something in our home, or fashion something so it can go underwater, but I am wondering if lights are something you can rent from a camera place or something (underwater ones)

4. Any other tips for us amatures? There are NO currently active underwater photographers in my province, so we're teaching ourselves here



I have a behind the scenes video that shows everything we're trying:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw6ekCVwr7k

I have never used a bag housing but I know of one or two people who has used them and have gotten good results. However, I am not too sure about the accordion system over your lens. If the accordion over your lens keeps moving back and forth from the camera lens then you can run into nodel point issues which can throw off your focus a bit on the outer edges of your photo.
For your focus problem my first clue was the lens you are using. A 35mm to 50mm is really not a good lens to use for underwater photography. What I would recommend is using a wide angle lens (Preferably a 10mm to 17mm or something close to it that will fit your camera. I have even used a 25mm and gotten good shots with it.). The reason for this is shooting underwater is like shooting through Jello. You need to be as close to your subject as you can, say 3 feet to get a clear shot. This is where the wide angle comes into play. A wide angle lens gives the appearance that you are shooting from a distance when you are actually very close to your subject.
Anything further out and the photo will come out blurry or hazy.
12188
This photo I shot was with a 10mm Tokina lens and was shot from a distance of 3 and half feet.
Also from your video did you have issues of condensation building up inside of the housing?
My next question for you is did you pre focus the lens or did you use the autofocus feature on the camera?
To address your lighting issues; Water really diffuses light and that is where you get a blue cast in your photos. This intensifies the deeper you go. There are a couple of ways to fix this. 1. Use a red filter from your local camera shop or 2. Use a dive light. You can a find fairly inexpensive dive lights on leisurepro.com. When you use a dive light I recommended duct taping a white colored plastic bag or translucent white piece of plastic over the light to act as a diffuser to avoid a spotlight effect to your photos. I did this with one of my first cameras when I was starting out and I found that this worked quite well.
I threw a lot of stuff at you here, so let me know how this works for you and let me know if you have any other questions or concerns.
I hope this helps. ;)

[Greg]

If you have used both autofocus and manual focus and you have no condensation building up on the lens, then the problem lays with the lens you are using. Again a wide angle is the common workhorse for underwater photography. I noticed that in your video when you got very close to the camera you were in focus but as you moved away the video became blurry.

[AniaR]

You're the best. I don't own a wide angle lens, but I can borrow one! I can't see your attachment though.

We didn't have any issue with condensation, and I used anti-fog liquid inside and out

We tried both pre-focusing and manual/auto focusing and it didn't seem to make a difference, now granted, this model of camera is NOTORIOUS for having problems with focusing. But I think you're spot on about the lens.

I will totally get a red filter and look into a dive light. <3 Thank you for the tip about the plastic. I am super excited now to try again. <3 YAY

We literally have NO one here who does underwater that I can talk to. And I'm not advanced enough in my own terminology to ask really complex questions. Thank you for answering mine, I think you hit the nail on the head!

[Greg]

Thank You. :)

[shimmygoddess]

I am so frustrated. I have had my GOPro less than a month and it is not working now...my hubby said if we are going to have all these problems than it needs to go back so I am back to square one trying to find something professional for underwater....ugh...so mad!!!

[emma11]

The GoPro Hero 3 Black edition works wonderfully underwater! And in very low light conditions. I'll see if I can get my test pictures and videos uploaded soon, but we were filming on a cloudy day in a fresh water lake.

While the pictures were very green, they looked wonderful! And were easy to edit back to a normal coloring in the program that comes with the GoPro. I'd say that new camera is worth the money.

[Mermaid Jewel]

I have a t3i Raina, and I was looking at getting an underwater housing but my dad dismissed it because it's exorbitantly expensive, however I can ask him which ones he would suggest. (He used to be a professional and we got a good housing for our smaller G10 before.)

I use a dinky underwater point and shoot (Fujifilm, now Lumix) but they've given me pretty good photos when I'm not the one taking pictures of myself (IT DOESN'T WORK VERY WELL).

The key thing with post-processing is the white-balance - make sure you fix the color balance and get the cyan down especially if you're in a pool. It's always better to get well-lit pictures you can play with later in photoshop. I have a specific (and slightly strange work flow) that I don't like to show people because I'm a photographer but if anyone wants any advice, I can help with the basics :)