Monofin confusion >.< Any help?

[Mermaid Veruliya]

SO I really like the size and shape of the finis competitor, but as we all know, the price is insane. I really want a wider fluke, so the smaller finis fins like the wave won't cut it. I used to use two flippers in my fabric tails and I hated the look of the rectangle long flippers, instead of the wide, natural looking dolphin fluke style. I would end up cutting the monofin if I were to get one similar.
I saw where someone had made a monofin out of some kind of material that was then attached to a foot holder thing, but the fluke looked very realistic and mermaidy. I was wondering, since I want a neoprene tail like Hannah Fraser, if I could somehow make the fluke and use it inside my neoprene tail?

I'm thinking, like with my fabric tails, that the neoprene will go all the way from waist to end of fin, so it would cover the homemade fluke, so I wouldn't need that much detail in the model. But does neoprene stick to the underneath when wet? Meaning, I had a satin tail (dumb, I know) and when wet it stuck to see every line on my body and outline on my flippers.

Also, would this be more cost efficient, or are there other monofins like the big finis competitor that I just can't find?
And any materials I should start researching to make a realistic, bendable, flexible, durable fluke? :D
(getting exciteddddddd :DDDD)

[Mermaid Veruliya]

Okay, I just found the thread I was thinking of! It was Jessica's dragonskin tail. It's so beautiful! Is anyone else terrified of getting into silicone?? Even as an art student, I've never used anything that required making molds and pouring and mixing chemicals and I'm just so so scared haha.I wouldn't know the first thing to do, and I'm worried about ruining it or blowing the little money I have :(

[Mermaid Cascada]

Okay, I just found the thread I was thinking of! It was Jessica's dragonskin tail. It's so beautiful! Is anyone else terrified of getting into silicone?? Even as an art student, I've never used anything that required making molds and pouring and mixing chemicals and I'm just so so scared haha.I wouldn't know the first thing to do, and I'm worried about ruining it or blowing the little money I have :(
I'm starting a silicone tail for the first time tomorrow when I sculpt my fluke. I'm nervous because I've never done any molds or anything like that before but; when you order all the supplies and materials you should have enough to do some small tests. As for the mixing it'll be pretty easy because its just measuring and mixing.

[Mermaid Veruliya]

Are you doing a full tail?
When you say sculpt your fluke, are you using clay to make a bowl-like mold and then filling it with the silicone? I'm having a hard time really understand the process. I've seen a lot of pictures though that are giving me a good idea. From what I've gotten, people get some sort of brown clay to make a mold, but I don't understand how it's done.

[Jessica]

Hi Keri,

silicone tails are a TON of work and the materials are expensive. Have you read Lorelei's, Star's, or Jazz's threads yet? They all have great information in them that can help the process make more sense.

To make a fluke:
sculpt your design in clay (sulfur free---very important)
build a wall around your sculpture out of clay( easiest) or build a mold box
apply release agent
pour your mold material (I used shell shock)
remove your sculpture from the mold


Here are a few pictures to give you an idea:

[Mermaid Cascada]

Are you doing a full tail?
When you say sculpt your fluke, are you using clay to make a bowl-like mold and then filling it with the silicone? I'm having a hard time really understand the process. I've seen a lot of pictures though that are giving me a good idea. From what I've gotten, people get some sort of brown clay to make a mold, but I don't understand how it's done.
Yeah, I agree with Jessica to check out all those threads she mentioned. When you sculpt your fluke make sure the clay is sulfur free because silicone does not cute properly. Lol and yes I'm making a full silicone tail. You sculpt your fluke and make sure it's symmetrical because you'll be glueing two sides together. When your done sculpting make a mold by pouring cement or any other mold making material which also has to be sulfur free. By making the mold you will have a negative of your fluke. Then pour your silicone into your mold to make a cast of your fluke. When your silicone is done curing you will have half of your fluke. Pour silicone into your cast again and wait for it to cure. When it's done curing you can take both sides and sandwich the monofin in between the fluke. The. You will have your fluke.

[Mermaid Veruliya]

Eeeeee thanks so much you guys are being really helpful.
So far I understand - okay, I need clay, I need to build a design and sculpt and create- I'm good at that part, art student perks- but then we get into the handy man things and I lose understanding. It looks like you Jessica made that 1-3 inch wall out of clay? Got it.
Then... a release agent? Is that pretty much like Pam on cooking sheets? Haha :P So vaseline I'm assuming needs to be spread all over the clay before I pore the other stuff. Then after all that I just pour in the silicone right? Which you used shell shock, is that a brand? I've seen a lot of people say they used dragonskin with shell shock and I get confused.

And Cascada, so I can use the same clay mold for my fluke both sides? So what is the difference between a cast, a mold, and a sculpt?
And I'm assuming I sew or glue the two pieces together with the monofin inside!

I LOVE YOU GUYS thank you thank you thank you, You've given me SUCH a better understanding so far!! :)

[Jessica]

Cascada,
I'm so excited for you! Make sure you start a thread so we can all follow your progress!

Keri, Cascada explained it all really well. In that last picture I posted the mold is the bottom(gray) and that's one half of my silicone fluke that my daughter is holding up.

When you make your tail, you can make a fluke mold and adhere the 2 sides of the fluke to the outside of your neoprene if the neoprene is fabric backed. You brush silicone on the neoprene and then lay your fluke on top and secure with clamps until it cures. Then you would flip the tail over and do the same to the other side.

or......you can simply brush silicone right on the neoprene and use a fork, paintbrush...anything really to texture the fluke. This method will use the least amount of silicone and still give you a beautiful fluke.

One more thing...I highly recommend monster makers clay. It's sulfur free, reusable and you can melt it. http://www.monstermakers.com/product/monster-clay-premium-grade-html

[Jessica]

Keri,

you sculpt out of clay, make a mold of your sculpture and cast silicone into your mold.

release agent: I used manns ease release from smooth on. Your clay walls need to be at least an inch high all around(no gaps!)

shell shock is liquid plastic. It's durable and good for molds. It's tough to work with though and hardens very fast even if you buy the slow version. You really should use it outside and not when it's raining/humid or too hot. Heat makes it harden even faster and it only has a pot life of about 8 minutes.

Dragonskin is the silicone. I'm using dragonskin 10 medium.
You can buy both shell shock and dragonskin from smooth on.

Your fluke needs to be perfectly symmetrical or the 2 halves won't fit together properly. Draw 1/2 your design on posterboard and then fold in half to get a mirror image. I used this method and it worked great.

You can't sew silicone. Silicone only sticks to silicone so you actually use silicone as a glue to bond two pieces together.

[Mermaid Veruliya]

OH okay I think I've got it now. So I design my fluke with clay. Add a release agent on the clay. Then, I pore the shell shock and it makes a hard shell mold. THEN I add the dragonskin into the shell shock mold, and THAT'S what the actual swimmable fluke is made out of?

[Mermaid Cascada]

Thank you Jessica! :D I'll be sure to sart a thread. Btw your tail looks absolutley beautiful so far Jessica.
Mermaid Keri, yup you can use the same mold for both sides of the fluke; that way you save materials. A mold is a negative of your sculpt. It like when the plastic toys you get with play dough. A cast is when you press the play dough into the plastic mold. (What you get when you take the play dough out of the mold is the cast). The sculpt is the positive of the mold. It's a little bit harder to explain a sculpt. And yes you'd use silicone to glue the fluke together with the monofin in between. Sometimes it can be really confuse but it you check all the threads Jessica mentioned and do a little research I think you'll get it because that's how I learned :P

[Mermaid Cascada]

OH okay I think I've got it now. So I design my fluke with clay. Add a release agent on the clay. Then, I pore the shell shock and it makes a hard shell mold. THEN I add the dragonskin into the shell shock mold, and THAT'S what the actual swimmable fluke is made out of?
Exactly! But the silicone will have to be removed from the shell shock.

[Mermaid Veruliya]

Okay, I think I've got this fluke thing down!!! I'm starting to draw up designs :) Now my new concern is attaching everything to make a tail. I saw one of you said something about brushing silicone onto my neoprene at the ankle. So if I do that, will the silicone fluke be completely visible and not covered by neoprene? Like the only neoprene is the legs? That'd be awesome. I'm worried about it sticking though and not falling off mid swim- durability is a must for me!
And if I could paint on the neoprene just as well as the silicone..... Lots of things on my mind tonight guys : )))

[Mermaid Cascada]

There are so many ways to make a tail. You make your fluke just silicone and the body of the tail neoprene or you could put silicone on top of the neoprene. To attach silicone to neoprene you can use glue or you can use silicone as a glue because silicone sticks to silicone. But there was a thread on silicone not bonding to silicone after 48 hours after curing. I'm not sure though...

[Jessica]

Silicone bonds to silicone after 48 hours. I didn't put my fluke together right away and it bonded without issue. I read that thread too but I haven't had any problems.

[Mermaid Veruliya]

Awesome, because I will probably be doing most of my work during breaks months apart. That scared me a little haha :P

[MermaidHyli]

I also recommend plasticine clay which can be purchased at local crafting store (there's one down town Richmond that I frequent) its cheaper than monster clay but works just as well. As for silicone on silicone it does bond you can also purchase a thickener from smoothon.com that will make the silicone more of a heavy base rather than its natural state of runny. It works wonder when having to bond things together.

[Mermaid Veruliya]

Thanks for the clay recommendation, shipping is a b****! Anything local is great for this mer...
I was just looking up supplies and I had watched videos a bit ago about people buying the gallon size of shell shock and dragonskin, but since I'm just doing my fluke, I was thinking I would need that much. Does anyone know where I can buy half gallons? Even if it's a different name brand. I've already found some type of dragonskin smooth on through eBay, for $40 but I can't find the size or figure out why the packaging is in a box instead of what's shown on smooth-on.com .
Also any alternatives to the Shell Shock used, or cheaper or anything similar would be nice as well! I love exploring my options.

[Mermaid Veruliya]

And I was wondering, do people make silicon tails without monofins?

That would definitely knock out some of the price, but I'm worried about the strength to propel me, any alternatives to put inbetween my silicon fluke pieces would be appreciated.

[Mermaid Cascada]

Silicone bonds to silicone after 48 hours. I didn't put my fluke together right away and it bonded without issue. I read that thread too but I haven't had any problems.
Yaaay!

[Mermaid Cascada]

And I was wondering, do people make silicon tails without monofins?

That would definitely knock out some of the price, but I'm worried about the strength to propel me, any alternatives to put inbetween my silicon fluke pieces would be appreciated.
You could but if I were you I'd really consider getting a monofin.

[Jessica]

Without a monofin your fluke will be extremely floppy and difficult to swim in. It would look pretty in the water, but you won't be able to move very fast. If you're trying to save money a finis foil is a good choice. I used a foil in my fluke and that's why my fluke is so flowy/floppy. I think it gives good support and makes the fluke look more natural. You can buy a foil on amazon for usually under $40

i also have a finis wave which is usually $40-45 on amazon. It's stiffer than the foil and larger. I like both monofins for different reasons. The wave is great for speed and works well in the ocean. The foil allows you to twist and turn more easily.

[Mermaid Veruliya]

I've come up with a VERY rough sketch of how I picture my future tail. My main aesthetic concern is that I am a rather slender, thin person, and when you see mermaid they have a very nice curve on the hips and calves that makes a nice physical flow. Since I'm, ahem, straighter than that, I decided to do a little optical contouring. I've added darker flowy fins to the hips and calves area, and also made the scales bigger with an outgoing pattern to create the illusion of a curve! As well as accentuating my small areas with smaller scales at the knees and ankles, that flare outat the top of the fluke. That will all be neoprene, and then my fluke with be silicone.
Color wise, I'm paying homage to my birthstone, Aquamarine, which my grandma always told me it was the mermaid's stone when I was little. I drew inspiration from the rough stone. I'm also doing a little green/ gold matching on accent points for my eyes, which have a small gold ring around the pupil!
Let me know what you think! :)
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[MermaidHyli]

An absolutely beautiful tail! And no worries about the curves, I also have never had them :/ I think adding fins on the side would be a great idea perhaps a dorsal on the back for the calves?

[Mermaid Veruliya]

I thought about that too! I'm afraid I wouldn't know how to attach that though :( I figured I would have the two seams up the side that would make it easdy to sew in some frillies and a small zip somewhere but I'm not sure where yet...

[MermaidHyli]

You could sew a zipper into the dorsal in the back of the tail. I dont know if Shelly has any more of her pictures up but she had pictures of how she would sew it all together

[Mermaid Cascada]

Very pretty!

[Mermaid Veruliya]

Thanks guys!!! :)

[fawkes]

Try leaderfins.com for a cheaper monofin.
Here is the link,

http://www.leaderfins.com/category.php?id_category=8

Thats where I'm getting mine for my silicone tail. They're out of Europe, so you have to look up your shoe size on a chart, but that's not too hard.
Their prices are incredible for their fins. The one I'm getting is $132 and it looks like its just as wide as the competitor. As soon as I receive it, I'll let you know how it compares in size to the Competitor.

[Mermaid Fenicia]

I have one of those and I really love it :)

[fawkes]

I have one of those and I really love it :)

Sweet!!!

Have you compared it next to a Competitor? I myself am curious to know how the size compares (with, length)

[Mermaid Fenicia]

Nope as I only have a leatherfin as a momofin that size.
I do have a finis wave, but I don't like the look of it in my (fabric) tails and the straps keep faling of my ankles every time I swim in them :( That's the reason I bought a (cheaper and nicer) Triton to go with my tails.

[fawkes]

I have a finis rapid right now in my neoprene tail and the straps drive me NUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Neptunie2]

Hi Keri,

silicone tails are a TON of work and the materials are expensive. Have you read Lorelei's, Star's, or Jazz's threads yet? They all have great information in them that can help the process make more sense.

To make a fluke:
sculpt your design in clay (sulfur free---very important)
build a wall around your sculpture out of clay( easiest) or build a mold box
apply release agent
pour your mold material (I used shell shock)
remove your sculpture from the mold


Here are a few pictures to give you an idea:

Is it possible to make a tail with a fluke like this and a fabric body because that would be amazing for me!! If not could you explain why! Thanks!!!!!! :)

[Firemaid]

Silicone bonds to silicone after 48 hours. I didn't put my fluke together right away and it bonded without issue. I read that thread too but I haven't had any problems.

It is a stronger more permanent bond with in 48 hours. Less likely to de-laminate or pull apart, but you can totally put things together weeks, even months after you de-mold.

The reason I found this out is because I had a very old piece that I tried to put together, It wouldn't hold. the seams kept just pulling apart.
I called smooth-on and the tech support (they are amazing by the way) explained to me, that once the curing process is completed that the chemical bond is not the same.

Since then I try to do all seaming with-in 48 hours and the difference in the way it bonds is very noticeable to me.

[Kumori Kitsune]

Okay, I just found the thread I was thinking of! It was Jessica's dragonskin tail. It's so beautiful! Is anyone else terrified of getting into silicone?? Even as an art student, I've never used anything that required making molds and pouring and mixing chemicals and I'm just so so scared haha.I wouldn't know the first thing to do, and I'm worried about ruining it or blowing the little money I have :(

I feel the same way