Silicone or Latex & Neoprene

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

Hi All! I have plans to make a realistic mermaid tail pretty soon. I have in the past made my own fabric tails, but this is my first time making a realistic tail. I really want to make a Silicone tail... But I've been wondering... Would it be a wiser choice to start with the neoprene backed latex tail and then later do the silicone tail? Making a latex tail is a lot less expensive to make as well, isn't it?

[Mermaid Veruliya]

From my own research, it really isn't. There's a difference between silicone and latex though, and silicone is stronger and more flexible. A tail is an investment, in my opinion. If you want to get a lot out of it, a lot of what you put into it, I suggest silicone. Through my own research of materials I've been able to find things half the price or less, other than the actual silicone. But a few videos I've watched have said if you're trying to choose, go with silicone. Just my own opinion!

Also the process is very similar. I've made fabric tails and I'm jumping right into my silicone tail!

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

Alrighty, thank you so much! Also, I've also been wondering, is it possible to skip the monofin if I were to use the Dragon Skin FX 20 or 30 for the fluke? Is there anyone who has tried that before?

[Mermaid Veruliya]

I personally wouldn't. It's more expensive, as you'd need to buy dragonskin 10 for the legs and then another order of dragonskin 20/30, which could add up to about $400. The point of the monofin is for propulsion and help swimming, the silicone is extremely heavy and floppy. I've heard it's weightless in the water, but still, if you've got an eraser strength sheet VS a plastic or whatever monofins are made from, you'd rather have that strong plastic helping you swim.
Personally I found the finis wave (used by many mers) for cheap on amazon. And I know of 2 or 3 on here (Jessica to be one, who's making a full silicone tail) use a finis foil, even cheaper than the wave. And in the end, you won't see the monofin, it's just there to help you not drown with your legs tied together ;)

[Jessica]

Without a monofin, you aren't going to have any speed when swimming in your tail. I tested my fluke in the pool ( full silicone with a finis foil in between) and silicone really isn't weightless in the water. Without a monofin, there is no way I'd go swimming in a full silicone tail. Just swimming with just the fluke I noticed a huge difference and became tired more quickly than when I had just the monofin.

Based on what i know about silicone, dragonskin fx 20 or 30 isn't going to give you the kind of stiffness you need to propel you though the water. You should read kanti's thread about silicone. She explains it all really well.

Good luck on your tail! :)

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

Thank you! You guys have been of stupendous help!
Now, I'm also thinking of somehow extending the tail on past my feet to make the tail longer and more fish like kind of like the tails in H2O or like the mermaids in the movie "Hook". I know I would have to have some kind of structure in that extra part of the tail. This also means that I would probably need to make my own monofin, most likely out of plexiglass. Any ideas of what sort of materials I would need to use for the extra strength and support between my feet and the fluke? All I know is that it needs to be both very flexible and strong to get the full fish-like effect.

[Mermaid Veruliya]

Or you could do what I've seen a couple mers do. Instead of starting the fluke right at the ankle bones, they extend it to halfway down the monofin. So scales will be covering a wide part til your toes instead of starting around the ankles which will give it a longer look. But I saw a YouTube video about someone making an extended tail. Do some research on there and also google. I believe they had some sort of wooden piece on a hinge.

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

Oh my gosh! Lol thank you! I had no idea that there was a youtube tutorial on how to do that!

[Mermaid Veruliya]

YouTube has helped me a TON with my tail. From tutorials to fin ideas to seeing what I DO and DON'T want my fluke to look like in the water. I've watched videos of plaster molds and silicone molds and scale techniques and painting silicone masks and reviews of monofins and sculptures from clay and just everything. YouTube is sweet :)

[Mermaid Star]

This is how that did the H2O tails... There is an extension from the feet to the end of the tail. It articulates back and forth to give that extra bend that we as humans do not have.

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/26700000/Are-they-making-the-tails-now-mako-the-island-of-secrets-26779163-500-335.jpg

Latexman did make flukes without a monofin and they did work. They move very fluidly. But they were tested in the pool so I am not sure how well they would fair in open water.

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

I did see that picture as I was Google imaging actually. I understand what they did, just not sure what they used for the extension. But as MermaiKeri mentioned in a previous post, there are video tutorials on YouTube. I actually found one of them and am watching it currently. The person in the tutorial used plexiglass to make her monofin and the foot plate, which both have hinges attached and then in between the foot plate and the monofin, she used a PVC pipe for the extension I like most of her idea, but I may use something else instead of the PVC pipe. Something that still has a little bit of bend, yet is still very strong. I think that the PVC pipe may cause weird and unnatural movement because the pipe itself is so straight and stiff.

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

I just had a couple of ideas, and I don't know if they would work. but I have some extra corset boning that I could use because it bends but is still pretty strong, especially if I use about 4 pieces together. And if that doesn't work, I was thinking of maybe extending the plexiglass from the fin all the way up to the foot plate. the extension part would be somewhat padded, probably with extra silicone, and maybe neoprene if I decide to make a neoprene body sock to wear inside the tail so it would look fairly natural and smooth. But I'm not a hundred percent sure on that second idea. I don't know how well plexiglass holds up to the force of swimming in silicone. is it flexible enough, or would it crack or break very easily using it as part of the extension?

[Mermaid Veruliya]

I'm not sure about the plexiglass. I feel like I saw somewhere that it shatters under pressure, and that's not anything you want near your feet. But I may be wrong. There's a thread on here, search making a monofin. I believe they talked about it. I myself was thinking of using a linoleum sheet, the kind that you carve stamps out of, can be found in any art store, to give my fluke some extra structure, as the silicone not around the monofin will be really floppy. I'm scared of it being so floppy I'm the water that you can tell where the monofin is.

[PearlieMae]

I wouldn't use plexiglas, but polycarbonate - Lexan - to prevent shattering. Plexiglas isn't flexible. I had an idea along the lines of the corset boning, but using fiberglass rods like they use in pop-up tents, extending it up mid calf, between your feet, with maybe an elastic band to go around each leg, like old fashioned sock garters in order for your ankles to be a fulcrum for the extension.

I'll try and draw a diagram to explain if this isn't clear.

Of course, this is all foundation underneath appropriate sculpted padding to make a smooth transition.

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

I've heard that using an office rolling chair mat might also work. It is a thick, and pretty tough plastic, yet somewhat flexible. Of course there would be definite carving ands smoothing down involved. And my dad happens to have a clear mat that he doesn't use anymore. I was curious if that might work. It seems to me that either it is made from lexan, or something like that. I don't know if anyone has actually tried this technique before. I mean, I can always shape it and then test it out before I actually apply it to the tail.

[Mermaid Veruliya]

I definitely suggest testing and swimming in it before doing anything.

[PearlieMae]

Lots of those mats are plastic and some are rubber. It should be do-able, but test it to see if silicone or latex will stick to it. Also, be sure to sand off the spiky things that are meant to grab the carpet. Some of those, especially old ones will be degraded and may crack, but they won't shatter like plexiglas.

I've been cutting pieces of plastic from milk jugs and kitty litter containers and piecing them together to make fins and flukes...If you don't want/expect much as far as propulsion, that kind of plastic makes a nice, flowy fin and keeps its form.

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

Lol yeah, I plan to sand down the bottom grippers. And it isn't too old to where it would crack. It's clear, either soft plastic or rubber. not sure. And pretty flexible it seems, but not too flexible. The properties of it seem really close to lexan and very similar to my wave monofin so I think it might work. But yes, testing it would be a good idea.

[Kumori Kitsune]

I kinda just want a silicone mono fin do people do that

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

Another question. What sort of paints or mediums can I use to paint Silicone with? I want to have an iridescent tail.

[Mermaid Veruliya]

Pearl ex powder pigments. Mix with silicone is the only way, I've read 10-1 silicone to paint, but it's your own trial and error experiments really

[Mermaid Star]

The Silicone companies have info on the percentage of pigment to silicone. If you add too much, it wont cure properly (at least that is what I have read from smooth on.) Check with your supplier for details. :)

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

How well would silicone adhere to neoprene. I'm thinking of creating a body sock to line the tail with to add extra smoothness to the tail.

[Anahita]

Silicone only adheres to itself. :)
You have to buy a special adhesive (which you can buy at the same place you buy the silicone) to get it to stick to anything else. The other option I've heard is of people embedding mesh into the silicone before it cures, to give it more strength.... I think that works, but it doesn't smooth anything out.

Personally, I would never ever have another tail with fabric in it, not unless I HAD to.... Neoprene can grow mold, and it's hard to clean out and dry. My last tail was a nghtmare. It was like Murphy's law in action... The silicone was tin-cure (because I was stupid) and I was sensitive to it, the monofin wasn't strong enough for my needs, the neoprene lining ended up getting mold in it despite my best efforts to dry it... The list just goes on...

And I don't recommend a Dragonskin fluke. I've been making some things out of the 30 just to test it (I bought the FX Pro, the 10, and the 30 for various components) and it is relatively stiff.... compared to other silicone rubbers though. Compared to a monofin, even a wave or a foil monofin, I really doubt that once it gets to fluke size it would be able to propel you through the water.

Oh, and never use plexiglass for a monofin... unless you like shattered shards of stuff potentially harming you... Then I guess the plexiglass monofin is probably not the problem we need to be concerned about ;) Lexan is a much better option. I think since the competitor is made out of fiberglass, fiberglass would be ok too, BUT I doubt it would be as nice and easy as a competitor, as they're precision making those things with nice, predictable machines that eliminate human error.

[Mermaid Veruliya]

I agree ^
I was in the same boat as you, I wanted a silicone/ neoprene tail. At first I wanted a silicone fluke and neoprene legs. Then I wanted silicone painted on the neoprene. Then I wanted neoprene backing. And then I figured the most cost efficient was just a full silicone tail. Because I'm going to have to buy the gallon size anyways.

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

Yeah, that is very true.... I just had an idea... first of all, my plan was to use Dragon Skin 10. But I know that it can still be kind of thin and will suction to the legs when wet and I don't want hardly any of my legs showing through. Do you think maybe backing the Dragon Skin 10 with either the 20 or 30 would work?

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

Also, would either of the dragon skin 20 or thirty be too stiff for using for the fluke, or should I stick with the 10 for the fluke?

[Mermaid Veruliya]

The only problem I can think of is lack of stretch. Keep in mind one of the hardest parts about a tail is getting into it haha. I'm thinking about putting a zipper in mine but worrying, since silicone only stick to silicone.. I am putting a mesh backing for a little extra strength though.

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

yeah. I was planning on putting a zipper in mine too.

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

How would Dragon Skin 20 or 30 work for the fluke. would they be too stiff? or would they be alright to use?

[Mermaid Oshun]

you would have to sew a zipper in not stick.

[Anahita]

Yeah, that is very true.... I just had an idea... first of all, my plan was to use Dragon Skin 10. But I know that it can still be kind of thin and will suction to the legs when wet and I don't want hardly any of my legs showing through. Do you think maybe backing the Dragon Skin 10 with either the 20 or 30 would work?

No. The 30 has almost no stretch to it. You need stretch, or else you'll never be able to get it on. If you want to avoid your legs showing, you just need to make the material thicker, which that too has its problems, but they're notable less than using a rubber that doesn't stretch easily. Keep in mind, full silicone tails are difficult to get on as it is. Even for a relatively thin one, you usually need some form of lubrication to help it get up. Don't waste your money making a tail you won't be able to wear, and a tail our of Dragon skin 30 would definitely be in that category.


Also, would either of the dragon skin 20 or thirty be too stiff for using for the fluke, or should I stick with the 10 for the fluke?

Depends on how you want your fluke to look. 10 will be flowy on the parts that don't cover your monofin, 20 and 30 will be a little stiffer, but not really by much... The act of moving through the water will still bend them quite a lot.

Have you gone to a silicone distributor? You really should ask them to send you samples. I can't recommend it enough. You need to be able to feel what you're working with, that will help you understand why you can and can't do things a certain way.

I guess I'm safe in assuming this is probably your first time working with silicone, so just start off simple, and with the 10, because it's the one that will give you the most bang for your buck. Silicone is really easy for some people, a lot harder for others. And it's very expensive, getting my FX, 10, and 30 just for the tail (I use silicone for other projects too) cost me about $800 (it could have been $600, but I bought an extra gallon of the 10) And you'd NEED to get the gallon sizes, because nothing is worse than running out of your materials in the middle of a project. And if you try and cut corners to save yourself money in the short term, it can really end up coming back to haunt you in the long run.

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

No, no, I had planned on using the 10, for the body of the tail. I'm curious, because I'm wanting to make an extended tail sort of like the ones from the movie "HOOK". And I was wondering if using either the 20 or 30, to encase the extension part as well as the fluke, would add strength to that portion of the tail. I don't know if any of you might know. I mean, I know I'll have to get some samples to see what exactly the properties are like. however I may have to just order the trial sizes from Smooth-On because unfortunately I don't have a Dragon Skin distributor where I live.

[Anahita]

Oooooh ok. I would guess that it probably would.... BUT it would make the tail VERY heavy. Silicone might be neutral in the water, but good lord, can it wreck you (and whoever is carrying you) on land. I wonder, perhaps you could encase your extension in a lighter weight material then cover it in a silicone skin.The extension piece itself would be stiff as it is, so as long as you leave the hinge for the fluke unhindered, it should work.

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

Actually, I'm not using the hinge method. I have this REALLY strong vinyl office chair mat that no one is using. I thought I'd make my fin out of that. Like the extension and fin would be all one, but then I'd cut two extra strips to fuse on the front and back of the extension portion for extra strength and power. Have some sort of straps that are connected to it so that it would be secured to my lower legs..... Lol Maybe I should post a diagram of what I'm talking about.

[Anahita]

Lol, that'd probably be helpful.

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

13450

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

The extension portion will be of the same material as the monofin, meaning it would be all one piece, but like I said, I'll cut 2 other strips to fuse to the front and back of the extension for triple the thickness and strength. then encase it in silicone, so it'd be sort of a prosthetic piece. and on the outside, from my waist to the tail will be the scale skin.

[Anahita]

Awesome. Ok, that makes sense now. I definitely would stick with the DS 10 then, as the 30 or even 20 would be too stiff in the thickness you'd need to make that smooth line - which would cripple your dolphin kick.

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

So you don't think the Dragon Skin 10 would be too soft for the prosthetic casing around the extension?

[Anahita]

No, it'll hold it's shape and allow you to move still while hiding your heels like your illustration shows. Just make sure you let it cure long enough (because with a casing that thick uncured silicone can happen). In this case, soft is actually desirable. It'll have the same texture and movement as your leg.

I definitely suggest making and testing just the monofin, extension, and casing on their own before doing up the rest of the tail. That way you can make sure you're comfortable and capable of moving in it and alter it to your needs. (It'd be a awful waste if you make the whole tail and find out that it's painful/uncomfortable and you're unable to modify it further)

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

Yeah. I totally get what you are saying. I had planned to do a test of the monofin/extension by itself before making the actual tail. But you're right, it might be a good idea, once I've got the fin portion cast and attached to the extention/monofin, to test it out in the water again. Thank you so much for all your help and information! You are fantastic! I fell like I've learned so much already and I am still only in the beginning stages of making my scale sheet! I love the pre-planning process for projects like this though! I feel I will be well prepared to conquer this tail project when I do finally dive into it. ^_^

[Anahita]

Glad I could help. :) Let me know how it goes, it sounds like it's going to be an awesome tail!

[Mermaid Libra Nerine]

Thanks! I will definitely keep up on the updates. :)

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MPEG (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1069)

[xaccer2]

клей (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/591009)

[xaccer2]

ожид (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1178656)

[xaccer2]

Hita (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/451531)

[xaccer2]

Stie (http://layabout.ru/shop/453761)

[xaccer2]

Herb (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/600379)

[xaccer2]

Кита (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/106395)

[xaccer2]

Петр (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/466082)

[xaccer2]

Гарр (http://leaveword.ru/shop/491055)

[xaccer2]

Бел� (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/270570)

[xaccer2]

укра (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/576489)

[xaccer2]

0000 (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/446213)

[xaccer2]

1455 (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/269103)

[xaccer2]

Line (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/577400)

[xaccer2]

Sauv (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/576262)

[xaccer2]

Прои (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/612430)

[xaccer2]

Xbox (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1040493)

[xaccer2]

Jose (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/601150)

[xaccer2]

Vida (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/3213)

[xaccer2]

Iris (http://mp3lists.ru/item/3213)

[xaccer2]

Мак� (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1151058)

[xaccer2]

25-0 (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/550236)

[xaccer2]

ин�т (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/461871)

[xaccer2]

изде (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1055937)

[xaccer2]

Colu (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/576426)

[xaccer2]

фигу (http://navelseed.ru/shop/103092)

[xaccer2]

Part (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/455473)

[xaccer2]

Wind (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/178606)

[xaccer2]

Wind (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/622277)

[xaccer2]

Wind (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/641712)

[xaccer2]

Only (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/447714)

[xaccer2]

Bork (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/97410)

[xaccer2]

Chou (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/175830)

[xaccer2]

Ultr (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/570548)

[xaccer2]

Simb (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/571563)

[xaccer2]

�вое (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/149288)

[xaccer2]

Robe (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/203223)

[xaccer2]

Денн (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/150400)

[xaccer2]

ЛитÐ* (http://onesticket.ru/shop/580535)

[xaccer2]

Disn (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/582985)

[xaccer2]

ЛитÐ* (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/684893)

[xaccer2]

ЛитÐ* (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/684253)

[xaccer2]

Дани (http://palmberry.ru/shop/689094)

[xaccer2]

И�тр (http://papercoating.ru/shop/584294)

[xaccer2]

англ (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/689719)

[xaccer2]

Fore (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1169134)

[xaccer2]

Frat (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1169208)

[xaccer2]

Венг (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1174141)

[xaccer2]

XVII (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1173266)

[xaccer2]

унив (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1543260)

[xaccer2]

Дуни (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1539020)

[xaccer2]

Incl (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/596330)

[xaccer2]

Сред (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/756608)

[xaccer2]

Теат (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1073287)

[xaccer2]

проу (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1075654)

[xaccer2]

Kenn (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/344906)

[xaccer2]

труп (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/510520)

[xaccer2]

Leil (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/621607)

[xaccer2]

Anni (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/888748)

[xaccer2]

Е�Ки (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/932324)

[xaccer2]

Dolb (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1210420)

[xaccer2]

З�бл (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/360353)

[xaccer2]

Peop (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/515109)

[xaccer2]

This (http://rearchain.ru/shop/769773)

[xaccer2]

Doug (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/641525)

[xaccer2]

Denn (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1029275)

[xaccer2]

Прок (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1055246)

[xaccer2]

Круж (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1063557)

[xaccer2]

Ð*ома (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1686411)

[xaccer2]

Фура (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1693983)

[xaccer2]

Каза (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1765140)

[xaccer2]

Мику (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1775214)

[xaccer2]

учит (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1820126)

[xaccer2]

Jose (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1058083)

[xaccer2]

чело (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1850294)

[xaccer2]

Will (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1876312)

[xaccer2]

Шило (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1898015)

[xaccer2]

Солд (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1493932)

[xaccer2]

нача (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1496055)

[xaccer2]

More (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1496146)

[xaccer2]

�аум (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1579143)

[xaccer2]

авто (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1424426)

[xaccer2]

изве (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1492792)

[xaccer2]

Brin (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/344484)

[xaccer2]

Engl (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/401281)

[xaccer2]

Па�х (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/402917)

[xaccer2]

lean (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1689762)

[xaccer2]

MPEG (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1069)