Fabric mesh to support Silicone Tails?

[Mizuko]

Hi everyone!
(I hope these questions haven't been asked before!)

I've got some questions regarding the fabric that some tailmakers put into silicone tails. The Mertailor uses some kind of spandex/nylon netting called 'Power Mesh' and I've also heard Raven from Merbella's uses something similar in her performance tails. Its meant to add strength to the tail itself, and makes it easier to attach the fluke to the scale body (again, just hear-say!).
Because I'm having to import a lot of materials (darn Australia being so far away from everything!) the costs are high to make my own tail- therefore I want this tail to last a longgg time!! I've been really torn on whether or not it is worth putting the extra $ into adding the fabric mesh or just casting the silicone really thick, so I've turned to you all to see if anyone can give me a better insight!


My questions are:

1. What exactly is this material and where would be the best place to purchase from? Is it just plain spandex netting, or something more durable?


2. To anyone who has a tail which has this in it: Does it decrease the stretch? Does it feel like its sturdier and therefore less likely to tear the silicone?


3. As for durabilty, would this mesh mean that the silicone tail will degrade sooner, as the mesh would (in theory) degrade over time/use? Or would it inevitably prolong the life of the tail?




Thank you so much for any answers or information you can give! :D <3

[Jessica]

Hi Mizuko,

i bought power mesh from Joanns: http://www.joann.com/performance-fabric-power-mesh-tango-red-/zprd_10655256a/

They only have red in stock now though. In any case I decided not to use the fabric backing for my tail. I bought black power mesh ( the only color in stock at the time) but realized that it would show through unless I painted my tail a very dark color. If you do decide to use it, I would get nude or white so this isn't an issue for you.

Since I made my scales very thin to make the seams less noticeable, I don't think i could have used the power mesh anyway. When you paint silicone, it can take several layers to get the color you want. I realized when I was testing paint colors that my silicone scales were becoming too thick. I could have added the fabric later, but I didn't think it was necessary. Silicone is pretty durable if you make it thick enough but loses stretch if you make it too thick.

The power mesh is the same stuff used as lining for bathing suits. Considering how bathing suits can deteriorate, I would be concerned about the durability of the fabric. I think if you placed the fabric on the scales before they cured and then made an additional layer on top, this wouldn't be an issue. This might make your scales too thick though....I'm really not sure.

I don't think jazz used power mesh for her tail either.

Good luck! I'm very excited to see you start your tail. It's really rewarding to make your own tail. :)

[Mizuko]

Thank you Jessica! :) That is really helpful! :D I was considering pouring a layer into the scale mold, then laying the power mesh over it, and adding another layer of silicone- but you are right, it might end up being very thick! XD

[Firemaid]

In my opinion power mesh or another type of liner is VERY important.
It is so thin. Just drop it in the back of your wet silicone.
Goodluck!

[Mizuko]

Thank you Firemaid!! :D I figured because all the tail makers do it, it must be an important part of the tails durability :)

[Sourisdoll]

I've been wondering this too. I was going to use neoprene but I found some power mesh online that was much cheaper, I think 4.50 a yard. Considering I might only need a 1.5 yards, I think I'll go with that instead! Much more price friendly. Also I'm a seamstress and the idea of building on a fabric base that I know already fits makes me feel much more confident than just trying to cast the silicone and hope it fits!

[Firemaid]

Neoprene is actually much more price friendly at the end of the day, because you can use so much less silicone if your tail is lined with neoprene and silicone is the really pricy part. Also using a neoprene base makes construction esier making it less likley you will mess up and waste expensive silicone.

[jazz2453]

I didn't use power mesh food my first tail, but I am using it for my current tail:)

[Mizuko]

I've got some for my tail now, too :) After getting it, I realised why its important! So I'm glad I asked! XD

[rkmainger]

Sorry for such a late question on this thread! I am currently making my own tail and I am trying to decide what lining to use; power mesh or neoprene. Firemaid you said neoprene was better for price reasons but would it make the tail really thick? Also would it decrease how much the tail stretches? Thank you!

[malinghi]

I am currently making my own tail and I am trying to decide what lining to use; power mesh or neoprene.

In my experience neoprene inhibits the curing of dragonskin silicone, and doesn't work at all. Has anyone had success with neoprene and silicone?

[AniaR]

I know Ravens basic tails and hybrids have neoprene and mertailor has neoprin. I think they both have a trade secret for attaching the two. I like my mesh in my tail it gives extra support

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Capt Nemo]

They would have to Silpoxy the neoprene to the silicone. I'm suprized that lycra fabrics will work with Dragonskin, as most natural/synthetic rubbers will not work with it.

[MermaidAllie]

What about latex tails? Would the power mesh or neoprene still work as well? Also, can I use lycra to add support or would it be too thin and stretchy?

[AniaR]

My tail has the mesh so here are my answers:

2. To anyone who has a tail which has this in it: Does it decrease the stretch? Does it feel like its sturdier and therefore less likely to tear the silicone?

It adds extra support. So if your tail stretches too far and starts to rip there is a layer of the mesh holding it together. The mesh is so fine you can barely see it. It helps reinforce the tail a lot and is extra helpful for tails that need to be cast thinner/lighter. It doesnt decrease the stretch in anyway, but beyond that you wont notice a difference between it and full silicone.


3. As for durabilty, would this mesh mean that the silicone tail will degrade sooner, as the mesh would (in theory) degrade over time/use? Or would it inevitably prolong the life of the tail?

I've had my tail 2.5 years and use it constantly and it hasnt degraded it at all, if anything I believe it is the reason it has lasted so long. The only issue with mesh is it gives more spaces for mold. So when you kill the mold, you cant just wipe it out like you would on pure silicone. So if you look in my tail it has dead mold in it that I re-siliconed over after chatting with smoothon for the best way to approach it. All tails will get mold. All. No matter how careful you are. The difference is with full silicone tails you can usually rinse/scrub the mold out. With a mesh (and neoprene) you cant. It is literally the only downside to mesh.

[JamesGunnels]

funny...I just posted a new thread about this in the Pod of Texas Forum, and a new acquaintance of mine, whom I met kind of serendipitously at the art store the other day while buying my clay, who has a ton of experience with silicone molding etc. had mentioned this. Place a thin layer of silicone on your scale mold, then lay the mesh then apply more silicone. I cannot WAIT!!!!!! TO finally finish my tail!

[Atlantisblue]

I thought power mesh was more like a backing rather than directly integrated right into the silicone itself?

[PearlieMae]

I integrate it deep into the silicone! Seal it in so there's no pockets of air where mold can get it's nasty little toehold.

[Atlantisblue]

When you did your previous tail, one scale at a time, did you use mesh?

[PearlieMae]

Yes, I wrapped my mannequin in mesh, stuck the scales to it, and before I put my fluke in, I turned it inside out and coated the inside with a later of silicone, effectively sandwiching the mesh inside.

[Goldie1471]

The mesh should be embedded, depending on how you are making your piece - if working from the inside to outside you can do a thin layer of silicone then let cure, add another thin layer and add the fabric to the wet silicone and seal the fabric in, either with another layer or while adding scales - if filling an open mould then the fabric will go on the cured top (inside) and another thin layer to seal it in.

Powermesh, lycra, spandex or whatever make of 4 way stretch fabric you use is important for 2 reasons that i know of.
Strength - it stops the silicone tearing in a lovely straight line that can a very long way
Shape - Because silicone is relatively heavy it can sag under its own weight, so the stretch fabric give it an added rebound to help keep the shape.

Powermesh in silicone was originally used in the prosthetics industry to stop the sagging and tearing of the silicone, where the fabric was embedded into the piece usually while under some amount of stretch so that it had an elastic effect.

[Lily]

Are things like powermesh and neoprene easier to find in the summer months? I went to the fabric store a few days ago and couldn't find anything remotely close.

[PearlieMae]

You can find out in the performance fabric section at Joann's (online, too), or in the lingerie fabrics.

[Lily]

That's where I went! It's like the smallest, saddest Joann's I've ever seen, though, so I'm not that surprised they didn't have it. Internet shopping to the rescue again!