Merfolk Tarot

[Joy&RaptorsUnrestrained!]

Hey guys, I know that there are a few Mermaid Tarot and Oracle Decks (including one by fellow mer, Doreen Virtue), but I was wondering what some of the symbolism for the traditional Tarot would look like through a lens of merfolk. Here's some of my ideas, and I'd love to hear some of yours.

The Fool - The Little Mermaid
- Traditionally, the Fool is shown as an androgynous figure in search of enlightenment, wisdom, or something else ephemeral, accompanied by a dog and about to blissfully take a step off a dangerous cliff. Andersen's Little Mermaid seeks something equally ephemeral, takes a similarly drastic step, and walks as a human as if she were stepping on sharp swords/knives/needles, etc. She also eventually becomes a spirit of the air and soars off into the sky after taking yet another drastic step and leaping off the ship into the sea to dissolve into sea foam. Some of her actions could easily considered foolish, but it is in the pursuit of something greater and more valuable, making her truly wise.

Other characters who might make interesting Tarot Figures include Poseidon, Atargatis, Triton, Enki/Ea, Oannes, Marbendlar, Nommo, The Lady of the Lake, Lorelei, Sedna, Melusine, The Blue Men of the Minch, The Rusalka, the Merrow, Selkies, Nereids, Aegir and Ran, Glaucus, the Dragon Kings, La Sirene, Enki, Jullanar of the Sea, Dagon, Naga, Mananan Mac Lir, Ukupanipo, Suvannamacha, the Sirens, Nereus, Oceanus, Encantado, the Sea Witch, Jenny Greenteeth, Ningyo, Vetehinen, Thessalonike, etc.

The Magician - Poseidon?

The High Priestess - Atargatis, perhaps, or the Lady of the Lake?

The Empress -

The Emperor - Maybe Poseidon or the Dragon Kings of China?

The Hierophant - Enki or Dagon or Oannes?

The Lovers - Aegir and Ran?

The Chariot - Triton?

Strength

The Hermit - Nereus / The Old Man of the Sea / Proteus?

The Wheel of Fortune

Justice - Melusine

The Hanged Man - Glaucus or Sedna?

Death - Sirens?

Temperance - Manannan Mac Lir?

The Devil - The Sea Witch

The Tower - Poseidon (heavy Atlantis imagery?)

The Star - La Sirene

The Moon - Scylla?

The Sun

Judgment

The World

Suit of Pentacles - Suit of Sea Stars?

Suit of Swords - The Suit of Crustaceans?

Suit of Wands - The Suit of Cephalopods?

Suit of Cups - The Suit of Sea Mammals?

Any suggestions or alternate ideas?

[AniaR]

I have Doreen virtues mermaid tarot cards.

[Miyu]

I personally think either shells or chalices should be the suit of cups (Mermaids find sunken treasure, so chalices wouldn't be too far of a stretch.) And I still like the idea of a trident as Swords.

Although, if using the "sea animals" suits, I like sea mammals for Wands (I alsways thought of Wands as representing Air)
I do love your "Sea Stars" idea, heehee.

Judgement: The Sea Witch, or perhaps something involving the River Styx? The Planetary ruler of the Judgement card is Pluto, so I thought it was fitting. :P The explanation on this site (http://www.biddytarot.com/tarot-card-meanings/major-arcana/judgement/) reminds me of dealing with Sea Witches.

The Star: The Pleiades/Atlantides. Their mother (Pleione) was an Oceanid (ocean nymph). I really like how it fits in with the imagery and meaning of The Star (http://www.biddytarot.com/tarot-card-meanings/major-arcana/star/).

I'm tired right now, I'll brainstorm more ideas later.

I think it's a great idea, kind of like "what would an actual mermaid/man's tarot deck look like?

Also, I think it would be cool to do digital manips of photos from Mers on here and such for the cards, kind of like the Mystic Dreamer Tarot (which I adore).

If this ends up being an actual thing, I say we get it on waterproof cards. Actually, I really want this to be a thing. This is like an awesome thesis project or something, haha!

[SeaGlass Siren]

Why not death as Davy jones? Or leviathan?

[Joy&RaptorsUnrestrained!]

@ Aniar : Raina, does Doreen's deck use themes like this, linking mythological figures and legendary merfolk to the archetypes? I don't have access to her deck atm, so I can't see for myself.

@ Moonlight Mermaid : Shells is an interesting idea, though I think it would be a better replacement for obstacles than cups. Chalices... not so much.... the only water maiden who immediately comes to mind involving a chalice is the Lady of the Lake (and only because she and the holy grail are both Arthurian). I did consider Mirrors instead, but thought that different kinds of treasure didn't make as much sense as different kinds of sea life (besides.... using Mirrors for cups would obligate using combs for something, which didn't appeal to me aesthetically). Tridents are a cool idea, but they'd likely take up too much space on the cards, and outside of the Greek tradition, I'm not sure how many merfolk used tridents... and they're probably closer to wands (as a kind of spear) than swords. It's a common misconception that wands represent air instead of fire... in the rider-waite and Marseilles decks, swords (which herald tragedy and tempestuous times and slice through the air) have a stronger connection with air, while wands (which, as sticks, burn easily, and in stories of Magic users, cause transformations, much like fire turns raw materials to cooked food, forged tools, and ash) more often relate to fire. I, too, have tarot decks that use wands for air, but I find that combination to be not as well thought out as the rider-waite and Marseilles ones. And yes, if I might be overly proud of myself, I did think the sea stars idea for obstacles to be inspired. ;-)
I like using sea mammals for cups because they carry air down with them into the depths, much like cups carry water, and cups and water are linked to emotions, and we consider dolphin grins, seal eyes, and whale songs to be more emotional than many other animal features (shark jaws, fish eyes, etc).

The River Styx generally doesn't have much to do with merfolk, aside from being a body of water (or mud), and while the idea of major changes described in that website is compelling, The Sea Witch, with her Faustian bargains and monstrous appeal more closely fits the Devil. The Pleadides, though, are an excellent choice for The Star, however.
You're right, it would be cool to photo-manipulate real mers, though it might be easier and less messy to simply paint the symbols and characters. I don't know how well waterproof cards hold up, so that might require some research. As for a group project, those can be awesome, but between the "what would you want in a mer role-playing game" and my idea that each of us record ourselves singing one line from Rolling in the Deep & stringing them all together as a YouTube video (not to mention the struggles with Tail Flip), I am not tremendously confident in group projects on message boards.

@ Seaglass Siren : Davy Jones has relatively little connection with merfolk, being more of a sailors ghost or nightmare... I think the sirens have a stronger connection to death and the underworld (there's even a paragraph on it in the sirens Wikipedia article), involving the nature of the siren song and the sirens' role as handmaidens and searchers for Persephone. Levitation is a powerful image, but more often tied with food (being served alongside Ziv and Behemoth for the saved souls at the end of the world) and with envy (according to Thomas Aquinas) than death. I should note that relatively little is known about the origins of Davy Jones, so therefore it is difficult to ascribe symbolism to him the same way one could sea gods and mythical creatures.

[Miyu]

I'd love to get my hands on some of Doreen Virtue's cards :D They look beautiful!

I'm not sure that they share your in-depth linking of traditional archetypes to what would be mer-folks'mythological and historical figures... It seems like you REALLY want to make a deck not just featuring Mermaids and various water entities, but to actually make it a deck that a merperson would own, based on the archetypes of their ancestry. (You and Aeolius are so in-depth and hardcore sometimes, it's kind of awesome). I'll admit that while I love mythology from all over the world, my education has been rather hit-and-miss, and I don't have the expertise that some of you awesome mers do :)

Ah ha, I see what you did there with the sea mammals :) That's a neat view! And yes, I can very much see the Sea Witch as the Devil. I would like to see the Sirens used as well :)

Yeah, painting would be easier, but I really like the dream-like quality photomanips can have , and think it could lend well to an underwater world. If we were to actually make these, I think it would be less of a "group project" and more of get input from all who want to give it, then let everyone know that the project needs lots of pics (and ask for permission to use stock images mers already have available), so that people who want to be in it can, but there can be a few people working on it overall to keep it cohesive and running. Yeah, there would probably be a few mers repeated on different cards, but I know there's quite a few mers with more than one tail! :D

Either way, I'm tempted to learn either photoshop or better painting to help out, because this is a neat idea. There seem to be several suppliers of waterproof business cards; However, that usually means one "image" per package of cards. I know Moo Cards will put a different image on every single card in an order if you want, and it's rumoured their mini-moo cards are waterproof (someone ran them through washer & dryer on accident), but I'm not sure if they "officially" offer waterproof cards. They are, however, always adding new features to their cards, so maybe we can bug them into making a durable waterproof card.

I'd also like it to be an intuitive-friendly deck, as I'm one of those people... :rolleyes: I do study and appreciate the traditional meanings of the cards, but to avoid spending years reading tarot books and memorizing meanings and associations, I prefer my cards to work with me a bit, to have lots of clues and images hidden throughout the artwork to trigger my brain to remember the various interpretations... One reason I've enjoyed the Mystic Dreamers Tarot for so long now.

One last thing: I'd love to see Christomer as Poseidon haha :lol:

[Echidna]

cool thread.

I like how much thought you put into this, and I agree with many of the figure-card combos mentioned.
However, I wouldn't muddle up the suits too much with sea mammals or the like.
Keep em as they are- symbols-, and use something most akin to it.

Shells CAN resemble cups, if they're hollowed out enough and shown as holding something;
just pick something that distinguishes them well enough from pentacles (sea stars could work.)
I thought of tridents for swords as well, because both are sharp, forged weapons.
Staves, I'd use something natural, like poles made from coral.

I don't much care for incorporating Andersen's Little Mermaid into a deck, because it's just a work of relatively recent fiction (even if he was drawing loosely upon motives from older folk tales), whereas the other mentioned beings are all true mythological figures/demi-gods/deities.

It gets truly complicated if you incorporate several which in fact are one and the same- example: Poseidon, Neptune and Enki/Ea are just different names for the same entity.

[Joy&RaptorsUnrestrained!]

cool thread.

I like how much thought you put into this, and I agree with many of the figure-card combos mentioned.
However, I wouldn't muddle up the suits too much with sea mammals or the like.
Keep em as they are- symbols-, and use something most akin to it.

Shells CAN resemble cups, if they're hollowed out enough and shown as holding something;
just pick something that distinguishes them well enough from pentacles (sea stars could work.)
I thought of tridents for swords as well, because both are sharp, forged weapons.
Staves, I'd use something natural, like poles made from coral.

I don't much care for incorporating Andersen's Little Mermaid into a deck, because it's just a work of relatively recent fiction (even if he was drawing loosely upon motives from older folk tales), whereas the other mentioned beings are all true mythological figures/demi-gods/deities.

It gets truly complicated if you incorporate several which in fact are one and the same- example: Poseidon, Neptune and Enki/Ea are just different names for the same entity.

Thanks for the compliments, Caltuna!

I think that EVERYTHING is a symbol, at least in some ways, and swords, cups, wands, and pentacles/coins don't really fit in with the theme of merfolk. I have some tarot decks that use different suits (the Halloween Tarot uses Bats, Ghosts, Imps, and Pumpkins; the fairy ring Oracle used the four seasons; I have even read fantasy novels where characters used cards with Birds, Fish, Cats, and Snakes... and the average playing card deck uses Spades, Hearts, Clubs and Diamonds), and I think merfolk could use symbols that fit them. The nice thing about using broad categories like sea mammals is that each card can look different while still having a shared theme, allowing the reader to get a better understanding of the imagery of each card (think of the drastically different depictions of different sea mammals: orcas, otters, seals, sea lions, beluga, narwhal, dolphins, walrus, blue whales, sperm whales, pilot whales, boto, humpback whales, etc). Part of the reason I am loathe to connect tridents and swords is that swords slash more than stab, residents are fishing tools as well as weapons of war, and the suit of swords is usually connected to sorrow and loss and tragedy... something mermaids are profoundly good at representing, yet Poseidon is the only one who wields a trident in legend. Coral is a good idea for wands, though, so maybe materials might suit (coral, pearl, shell, gold) as suits. And while The Little Mermaid is the most recent entry in merfolk lore, it is, without a doubt, more prevalent and powerful in the modern world than much of the actual mythology. Mixing the two does seem odd, but recall that Tolkien argued that C.S. Lewis should stick to creatures from one culture's myths, like Middle-Earth 's primarily Scandinavian elements, but instead, Lewis created a world and culture that was distinctly Narnian by mixing Greek and Norse and Arabic aspects. You have to admit that characters like The Little Mermaid and the Sea Witch provide some unique elements to all things merfolk related, and I would like to point out that when I suggested Triton for some of the cards, I was referring to the conch-blowing Herald of Poseidon, not the father of Disney's Ariel.
(To be continued... need sleep)

[Joy&RaptorsUnrestrained!]

And the continuation:
I have to disagree with you on the matter of the various gods. Yes, they have similar features, yes, they are geographically close to one another. One could even argue that, given the fragments of ancient culture that have survived to the modern world and the few stories we know about even the Greek Gods, that Neptune and Poseidon are one and the same (though there is plenty of evidence that this wasn't originally the case) and so are Enki and Ea, but the four of them are packed with different elements that make for intriguing symbolism, particularly in a symbol-rich environment like Tarot.

Neptune, it should be noted, was originally the Etruscan god Nethuns, originally a god of wells, springs and freshwater, who later was expanded to be god of all water. Neptune might also have originated as a god of the cloudy and rainy sky (in contrast with Jupiter, representing the clear sky), and was considered a fertility god as well. Nethuns was an important god to the Etruscans, though he was much less powerful (and much less popular) in Rome, having only one temple in the city. Nethuns is also often depicted with a sea monster crowning his head.

Poseidon, on the other hand, was extremely powerful, having been one of the three major gods to defeat the Titans, one of the major patrons of Athens (the source of most of the surviving "Greek" myths) as a significant sea power who defeated the Persians, who divided the world into four segments (the sea, of course, the sky, the underworld, and the world). He was associated with earthquakes and tectonic activity, raising and sinking islands, and the like.

The two mixed and merged in Roman beliefs, and that is where much of the confusion comes from, but their stories and their origins are distinct and interesting. Both are shown wielding tridents, and both are considered gods of horses, and being important for sailing. Also noteworthy... neither of them is ever depicted as a merman until modern art.

Ea and Enki have a similar shared relationship, and are, perhaps, more closely related than even Poseidon and Neptune. However, these gods were associated with Wisdom, Crafts, Mischief, Intelligence, Creation, and sea, lake and freshwater, though he primarily gained his power over freshwater after slaying his ancestor, Apsu, the primordial representation of freshwater and husband of Tiamat (the primordial saltwater), making him more closely resemble Zeus (or even Cronus, considering he agreed to pass the crown of the king of the gods to the much-younger Marduk if the latter could defeat Tiamat). He is also considered the god of Magic. His symbols, the goat and the fish, were combined into our understanding of Capricorn, and unlike Poseidon, has been depicted as a merman, or with the skin and scales of a fish. He is also deeply connected with the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

While it is tempting, especially from an intrigue standpoint, to view gods with similar portfolios as one and the same, that is more modern mythology than ancient. Gods arose from specific cities and city-states, each with its own pantheon that represented the ancient cultures' values and priorities and conflicts. Only when they reached the point of Empire or conquest did worship of these gods mix and merge and get re-named. This had the advantage of giving us greater chance of learning about these figures today, since there were more artifacts, artwork, and writings spread out over a greater area... but that doesn't disguise the fact that we are left with fragments of the much greater whole that has been lost... and trying to obscure the important details.

[Mermaid Oshun]

I totally understand Caltuna's interest in maintaining the elemental and symbolic values of the suits for the sake of the traditional interpretations cards represent and the deeper meanings of each card. For instance, something about the suit parallel to the cups must represent the element of water and the quality of a vessel. Yes, make the symbols appropriate for the mer culture but maintain the significances which are the basis of standard interpretations for each card.
Of course you can create your own system entirely. But then it might not be accurate to use the name tarot at all if it does not maintain any of the esoteric significances passed down over the centuries whatsoever. Likewise, I also totally comprehend Caltuna's idea that certain deities represent the same values cross culturally. Again the deities represent deeper abstract archetypes and qualities. One is not claiming that they are the same entity historically or otherwise. However, they are symbolic of the same deeper symbolic archetypes and significances cross culturally.
I similarly agree that inclusion of the little mermaid along side deities in a tarot deck feels like a bastardization of the system as well. Again, one may create ones own system of divination with all child like or fairytale symbols. But including those alongside other more potent ancient archetypes seems inappropriate or incongruent in my opinion.

[Echidna]

^^ All of what Golden Pearl said.
She just explained it way better than I did :D

Oh, and about "equated" deities.
The idea is not modern; the Romans themselves incorporated Greek, Egyptian and Akkadian gods into their pantheon and in many cases, claimed they indeed were one and the same.
If you look at Egyptian deities, you'll be swamped by originally separate gods and goddesses later all unified in one.

It's of course interesting to see where they all originated, and what the differences were in the beginning, but it's not modern scholars that invented equation, ancient people who actually believed in those deities did.

[Miyu]

:O_o: I am learning so much mythology... Why didn't they teach this in school? I would have actually paid attention LOL

[SeaGlass Siren]

They did... Grade 5. But noone wants to pay attention at that age :|

[SeaGlass Siren]

[QUOTE=Joy&RaptorsUnrestrained!;8860

@ Seaglass Siren : Davy Jones has relatively little connection with merfolk, being more of a sailors ghost or nightmare... I think the sirens have a stronger connection to death and the underworld (there's even a paragraph on it in the sirens Wikipedia article), involving the nature of the siren song and the sirens' role as handmaidens and searchers for Persephone. Levitation is a powerful image, but more often tied with food (being served alongside Ziv and Behemoth for the saved souls at the end of the world) and with envy (according to Thomas Aquinas) than death. I should note that relatively little is known about the origins of Davy Jones, so therefore it is difficult to ascribe symbolism to him the same way one could sea gods and mythical creatures.[/QUOTE]
Huh.. When you put it that way it does make sense... 0-0

[Miyu]

Oh no, I was always entranced by mythology and ancient civilizations, I wanted to be an archaeologist for the longest time haha, which was not helped at all when the movie "The Mummy" was remade! One of my problems is my family would move every couple of years, sometimes in the middle of the school year, so my education was very spotty. It's probably why all I do now is surf the internet trying to "dig up" everything I can about all sorts of ancient cultures and such. The classes I enjoyed the most were the "advanced" classes where our teacher would have us really delve into Shakespeare and Greco-Roman myths; I was so disappointed that I moved away in the middle of the most fun long-running class/homework assignment - creating and illustrating my own Greco-Roman myth. I still remember what it was going to be, too, so I'm hoping to one day finally write it all down.

Ok, end of my off-topic block o' text...

[Joy&RaptorsUnrestrained!]

Grrr... I loathe autocorrect... that should've read "Leviathan" instead of "Levitation", SeaGlass Siren... my bad. You're right, though, that as a psychopomp (a spirit or god, like Hermes or the Grim Reaper, who escorts souls to the underworld), the Pirates of the Caribbean version of Davy Jones would make a powerful image for the death card, though even there, he seemed to betray the sea goddess and he wasn't properly performing his duties as a Charon-like figure, and was actually trying to keep things in stasis, while the death card is more about a powerful, sweeping, and dramatic change or transformation. As for legends of Davy Jones, some suggest that he is the spirit of Jonah from the Bible, who was swallowed by a whale (or the Leviathan, depending on the stories), though since I seem to recall him actually being spat out on the shore and going on to have a complicated preaching career, that seems an unusual method for becoming a sea ghost.

As for my knowledge of mythology, in addition to getting an early start with the D'Aulaires books of Greek and Norse mythology, various other books and novels and encyclopedias of mythology, and college classes in Near Eastern and Non-Western Myth, I watched one the the Great Courses (dvds of filmed university lectures by actual professors), about Classical Mythology, and the professor of that one brought up some astounding ideas.

Also, I think I screwed up in my original list... I was thinking about the Strength Card, not the Justice one, for Melusine... maybe showing her restraining the boar from her story instead of a lion.

[Miyu]

Hmm, I'm going to take a look through my current deck shortly and see what associations come to mind for me. Sadly, I can't seem to find the book that goes with it, though...

If this ever becomes available for obtaining a copy, are you planning on having an accompanying book-type-thing to perhaps give a bit of the stories behind the images or something of the sort? Maybe for those of us who aren't as versed in mythology yet :p

[Joy&RaptorsUnrestrained!]

And yes, absolutely. Some of the best Oracle Decks (like one of my person favorites, the Fairy Ring Oracle) come with books offering an in depth description of the legends inspiring each of the cards, the card's meaning in a reading, communing with the spirits depicted on the card in actual magic rituals and imagination exercises, and so forth. Having a book really helps me with any oracle card reading, if only so that I can flip back to it and get some ideas.

On another thought, I might have to come up with some ideas for unique card spreads for doing readings with the merfolk Tarot... the Celtic Cross might not be the most thematically appropriate.

[Miyu]

Ooh yay, unique spreads! :D I think a circle spread might be nice for a mer-deck, I've used a circle spread before and really liked it.

[SeaGlass Siren]

I had an inuyasha fairy deck before.. Sa to say it was just images that had nothing to do with what the cards mean

[SeaGlass Siren]

Grrr... I loathe autocorrect... that should've read "Leviathan" instead of "Levitation", SeaGlass Siren... my bad. You're right, though, that as a psychopomp (a spirit or god, like Hermes or the Grim Reaper, who escorts souls to the underworld), the Pirates of the Caribbean version of Davy Jones would make a powerful image for the death card, though even there, he seemed to betray the sea goddess and he wasn't properly performing his duties as a Charon-like figure, and was actually trying to keep things in stasis, while the death card is more about a powerful, sweeping, and dramatic change or transformation. As for legends of Davy Jones, some suggest that he is the spirit of Jonah from the Bible, who was swallowed by a whale (or the Leviathan, depending on the stories), though since I seem to recall him actually being spat out on the shore and going on to have a complicated preaching career, that seems an unusual method for becoming a sea ghost.




I didn't catch it either lol!! Late night mernetworking on the phone :p

Sounds pretty cool though . If it were ever to be made I'd maybe like to see a Davy jones (not thr Disney one but something close to it) since a sailors version of the afterlife is "Davy jones locker" and such.. It's too bad noone really knows Who he was ._.

[Mermaid Danielle]

I have Doreen virtues mermaid tarot cards.
-Same here!

[Miyu]

What I've seen of Doreen Virtue's online looks lovely. Maybe someday I'll get to see a deck in person! :D

[Mermaid Momo]

I honestly haven't even touched a tarot deck yet! I still haven't found a deck that really spoke to me. I was interested in the new mermaid oracle deck that Lucy Cavendish had made, but I didn't really like that one. I'm very picky lol.

[Miyu]

Hmm, can't find my Tarot book, think I left it behind when I moved... This will require a little more work before I have any more ideas to offer. I think I'd rather use the artist's interpretations anyhow.

I'd also welcome any other sea-themed symbolism references, as I'm working on another mer-themed divination system as well.