What makes you Pro ? ? (not what you think)

[Mermaid Citrine]

So recently I came across an opinion given by a professional mermaid that I admire very much. She's an amazing free-diver and fellow passionate enviro-animal activist but she said something that bummed me out and I think is a bit ..... well mean (for lack of a better word)...

I don't think it's really anyone's place to tell someone what they can and cannot be or tell someone whether or not they are a 'legit' or not. I believe you define yourself and the only one you can compete with is yourself so you shouldn't compare yourself to others.
But anyway, this mermaid said that in order to be a "real" mermaid, you must be able to be a pro free-diver and that if you aren't she doesn't consider others as mermaids (which also doesn't really make sense since its a make believe thing). I admire her and anyone who is able to free dive to great depths and I know even if you have the physical ability to do so (more on that in a minute) it still takes a lot of practice to get that good.

Here's my issue with anyone saying this or that is what you 'must' have in order to be 'real'. ...Not all of us have the same mental and physical capabilities and as long as you aren't being deceitful and claiming you can free-dive 50 feet when you can't, etc. and you accurately represent your abilities and what you can do as a 'mermaid performer' I don't see why anyone should be labeled as 'real' or not.

For me personally, I have tried scuba diving years ago and got really sick after reaching 44 ft (was throwing up and they had to pull me from the water, it was a horrible, painful, traumatic experience to say the least) in fact, I most likely did permanent damage to one of my ears in trying to dive when one of my ears would not and does not clear (and please don't tell me the tricks to try, I've talked to pro divers and ear doctors about this, there is nothing I haven't tried to fix this, short of surgery, which is costly, not guaranteed and has many side effects, including making the problem worse or even making me deaf) I also have chronic Lyme Disease, a complicated, sh*tty disease that causes vertigo, nearly constant low grade nausea (which gets worse with exercise) among other symptoms that I try my best to push through. Lyme disease is known for messing with your ears so its possible Lyme caused my ear problems or its also possible I just don't have good ears for diving.

Anyway, because of this problem and injury made worse when I tried scuba diving, I now cannot dive deeper than about 10 ft. before my ear is in too much pain to continue descending. I have sitten at the bottom of a 10 ft. deep pool after slowing descending and tried all the tricks and one ear simply will not clear, it just gets more painful. After talking to pros in this field, they all advise me to be really careful and not push this as I could make it worse or even go deaf in that ear. Bottom line, I cannot free-dive past 10 ft. I also can only hold my breath for about 30 secs. I have not worked on this much because its not something I advertise as part of my abilities and it hasn't stopped me from making my own style of mermaiding into a fun and successful business.

Also despite this, I LOVE being in the water and even though I get sea-sick easily, it never stops me from being in the water. I go swimming, snorkeling and mermaiding as much as I can and have made many videos of me swimming.
When people ask me about free-diving, esp. if its a photographer interested in shooting very deep, I explain that I'm a "Shallow water mermaid" and clearly tell them I cannot go below 10 ft. This has not caused much of a problem so far, I have still done several underwater shoots, even though they are challenging so I am not mis-representing myself. If they are looking for a mermaid that can go 25 ft or more, and hold their breath for several minutes, I do tell them of the ones I admire who can do that and refer them that way.
I know everyone is unique in their abilities and skills and I don't think anyone should feel they can't be a mermaid because they aren't 'this' or 'that'.

Don't let anyone else define who you are, make your own way and be yourself. If you want to improve at something, that's great, but make sure you are doing it to compete against YOU not others. Do not compare yourself to others. Love yourself for who YOU are. There is no one else like you.

Lots of Love <3 <3 <3
Mermaid Citrine :)

[Seatan]

That's a good message! The pros are right--you should NEVER push yours ears like that. If it hurts at all, you are too deep for your ears and either need to rise and equalize or, if that isn't possible, stay at that higher level. You can get serious problems with your ears if you push, as well as induce headaches. I agree that mermaids cannot be judges on the depth they dive. You might judge whether someone is a professional FREEDIVER in this way, but certainly not a mermaid! You're a pro mermaid if you get paid for mermaiding, however that comes about, at least IMO.

[MerEmma]

Oh gosh, I've heard so much about Lyme disease...I'm so sorry you have to go through all that. :c

Personally for me a "pro" mermaid is just someone who does it and books gigs and such. Melissa, Raina, Ayla, Iona, Hannah, really to me it's just that. Raina is DEFINITELY a pro mermaid and she can't dive super deep because of her ears either. I think anyone who wants to identify as a mermaid certainly can, too. :)

[Mermaid Kelda]

If you want to improve at something, that's great, but make sure you are doing it to compete against YOU not others.
This is wonderful. I fully approve of this <3

[AniaR]

Lol they say that when they are threatened by other mers. One of them picks me apart and I'm like oh well. Still working 3-5 times a week anyway! :) still published the book. Still kicking ass! :p so cry me a river. My skills earn my paycheck. I'm happy

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[Echidna]

I say, you're a real mermaid when you can't stay away from water and go out to swim even though you have severe health problems.
I swim up to 8 hours a week, but after every swim I pay with vertigo, nausea, chills&fever, and excruciating pain.

That won't stop me, but I wonder whether those 2 "nice" freedivers would still be keen about their definition if they had a similar problem.
Deffo don't care about what others say.
there is no official "mermaid certificate" or rules that state what exactly you need to be able to do
(and if there were, I probably wouldn't care either ;)).

Just be careful with your ears and eyes.
I have Lyme too, and it ferquently messes with both, causing infections.
Don't dive more than 1 foot or so under the surface if you have an inflammation!

[PearlieMae]

You're a real mermaid if you are a mermaid in your heart.

You're a professional mermaid if you get paid to appear as a mermaid. Pretty simple, I'd say. :D

[Coradion]

I think "Real" and "Pro" are different terms.

When I think "Pro Mermaid" I think people like Hannah and Melissa who have a great breath cap and are paid for events to be mermaids. They don't seem to have to do much else but be mermaids, swim, and look effortless.

Self proclaimed pros that make money by wearing a tail and entertaining kids don't make me think pro. They make me think children's entertainer, which is great in its own right. My best merfriend Mermaid Harmony does this, and she does it very well I would never be able to do what she does I'm not creative or animated in the same way she is. To me it's the difference between being a clown or being a Cirque du Soleil acrobat. Both could call themselves pro because they might do it as a profession, but to me real pros don't need to call themselves pro. When people post about how they are pro or how to become pro it seems only makes me think they're only posting for self gratification.

If you feel like a mermaid and want enjoy swimming in a tail I'd deem you a real mermaid for sure.

If you get paid regularly to swim, do shoots, commercials, and big events as a mermaid where you're there for the novelty of being a graceful mythical creature then I'd think you're a pro.

[AniaR]

We define the job we created. I do kids parties but Ive also been on TV and music videos, festivals, parades, adult parties, weddings, multiple publications and media coverage. No one is going to tell me I'm not a professional. When I do children's events I use my two professional degrees to do so.

You wouldn't call an actor a non professional because they do kids shows or background work. You really wouldn't differentiate in any other field between people who work with kids and people who don't as one being professional and one not. And honestly I think its arrogant and ignorant for anyone to create rigid parameters of a vague still evolving career.

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[AniaR]

I think this is an interesting discussion so I asked my fans what they think. I'll quote some of them as I get it. Meanwhile, here's the quote from the dictionary:

professional
prəˈfɛʃ(ə)n(ə)l/Submit
adjective
adjective: professional
1.
relating to or belonging to a profession.
"young professional people"
synonyms:white-collar, executive, non-manual More
antonyms:manual
worthy of or appropriate to a professional person; competent, skilful, or assured.
"his professional expertise"
synonyms:expert, accomplished, skilful, adept, masterly, masterful, excellent, fine, polished, finished, skilled, proficient, competent, capable, able, efficient, experienced, practised, trained, seasoned, slick, businesslike, deft, dexterous; More
antonyms:amateurish, incompetent, inept
2.
engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as an amateur.
"a professional boxer"
synonyms:paid, salaried, non-amateur, full-time More
antonyms:amateur
informalderogatory
habitually making a feature of a particular activity or attribute.
"a professional gloom-monger"
noun
noun: professional; plural noun: professionals
1.
a person engaged or qualified in a profession.
"professionals such as lawyers and surveyors"
synonyms:white-collar worker, professional worker, office worker More
a person engaged in a specified activity, especially a sport, as a main paid occupation rather than as a pastime.
"his first season as a professional"
synonyms:professional player, non-amateur, paid player; More
a person competent or skilled in a particular activity.
"she was a real professional on stage"
synonyms:expert, master, maestro, past master, trooper, adept, virtuoso, old hand, skilled person, authority; More
antonyms:amateur


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[PearlieMae]

We define the job we created. I do kids parties but Ive also been on TV and music videos, festivals, parades, adult parties, weddings, multiple publications and media coverage. No one is going to tell me I'm not a professional. When I do children's events I use my two professional degrees to do so.

You wouldn't call an actor a non professional because they do kids shows or background work. You really wouldn't differentiate in any other field between people who work with kids and people who don't as one being professional and one not. And honestly I think its arrogant and ignorant for anyone to create rigid parameters of a vague still evolving career.

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Thanks, Raina! Well put!

I don't think breath-holding has ANYTHING to do with one's "professionalism" as a mermaid. Professional Mermaiding is an emerging market with wildly diverging specialties.

And Clowning and Acrobat are definitely two entirely different things...both highly specialized professions.

I was trying to think of a way to put it without equating it to my career as a photography professional! (Hobbyist/enthusiast, Amateur, Advanced Amateur, Semi-Pro, Pro)

[AniaR]

Most of us who are hired for any form of entertainment are hired specifically because we are mermaids. Specifically because clients want professional mermaid skills. And it shouldn't be looked down as anything other than professional. But I wouldn't expect someone who doesn't do mermaiding for a living to understand anymore than they would any other job they don't do. And honestly if you're going to separate mermaids who work with kids as not professional mermaids... By that same thinking mermaids who freedive are professional free divers who wear a mermaid tail. Or professional actors and models who wear a tail etc.

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[AniaR]

P.s Circe du Solei was started by two clowns and after talking to both circus performers and clowns ( we have two circus schools here) clowns make more money. So maybe that wasn't the best comparison. Though I can't imagine you actually know enough about that area to make inferences either. ;)

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[Coradion]

P.s Circe du Solei was started by two clowns and after talking to both circus performers and clowns ( we have two circus schools here) clowns make more money. So maybe that wasn't the best comparison. Though I can't imagine you actually know enough about that area to make inferences either. ;)

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It's okay Raina, yet again you know more about my life than I do :D. Thank you for that bit of enlightenment. Just like when you were telling me about how the mermaid divers at the aquarium I worked at contacted you, when Waikiki Aquarium never had mermaid divers. I'm glad I can write down what I think of as a professional mermaid. I used to do pro dance and acro in China, I made about a thousand yuan a night, four or five nights a week and had to go to several hours of dance and flexibility training practice each day. I worked with an acro group here on island and was trained by individuals like Jenyne Butterfly. I'm sure you MUST know who she is. Oh, did I mention I was offered a sponsored spot at an academy in LA which is a feeder program for Cirque.

I did NOT say I think less of people who work with kids. Re-read my post again, and nope I didn't say I think less of people who work with kids. Hm... are you inventing things again? Must not be, because you're a professional. I think you should add to your definition list that a professional is someone who cyber bullies people to the point that they leave forums and make their own. Wavedancers of Atlantis ring any bells?

[AniaR]

I never said I was contacted by them. I have told you repeatedly that I used the word aquarium because I didn't realize there WAS A Difference between that and oceanarium. But apparently you ignored those posts and keep calling me a liar despite my offering to forward you the emails, the contact name and phone number of the person who contacted me. You seem to have a habit of arguing with me and then never reading my replies where I give you all the information you ask for. You go to the bitch thread to passively aggressively complain about me validating myself? (but in a round about way you're doing exactly what you accuse) Lol you've previously called me a liar. Previously said I don't count as a professional and had some pretty vocal thoughts over thinking I shouldn't write a book. You recently told me off in a 2 year old thread because you didn't understand the context. If you're going to continue following me around to be critical about areas in which you have less experience than me ( like working with kids) expect me to respond in kind. Also didn't realizing clowning was the same as dancing and acro work.

You're the pro mermaid police but still using my tutorials eh? ( Dr. Sketchy)

Go complain about me on your other forum. All that goes on there is complaining about me and iona . I haven't even been on it but every met network member messaged me with the b.s. still waiting to be arrested for faking a screen shot over here. ;) ( a screenshot I might add I had nothing to do with sending to mods or taking) please. Tell me more . They also made their other forum when I wasn't even ON this one. I didn't use it for months. Had zero activity. So not sure how I bullied anyone into leaving. I wasn't even here. lol. They made a new forum because they were held accountable to the rules here, and didn't like that. However, that forum is the same as yuku. If you slander people, it only takes one click on "legal" for me to remove all the threads. That's the whole reasons why we upgraded to our own. So probably something to look at if you're going to keep calling me a liar for a post you misunderstood.

edit: plus you missed the point of Citrine's whole post. YOU don't get to decide who and what is professional.

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[AniaR]

Don't assume all my points are directed at you either since I viewed the same statements vitrine viewed from the two mermaids putting people down. We've spoken about it and reflected on it outside of the forum, and I find the professional anything debate quite interesting as it also pertains to other fields I work in such as music, modelling, and photography.

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[AniaR]

*citrine (tapatalk won't let me edit)

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[Mermaid Kelda]

I believe professional means exactly what it sounds like - that it's your profession.
What makes you a professional photographer? Taking great photos? Or getting paid? I'd argue there are many "professional" photographers whose shots aren't all that great, but they get paid to do it because people don't know any better. Similarly, there are amazingly talented photographers who don't take photos to get paid - they take photos because they love doing so. So, whether you're professional doesn't equate to whether you're good at what you do. But I suppose that depends on how you actually want to define "professional". In this case, I used the dictionary's definition ;)

Also, is a photographer suddenly not professional any more if they start specialising in kids' parties? If they still take great photos and get paid to do so, why does working with kids suddenly boot them out of the A-league?
I don't think anyone gets to define what makes you a pro mermaid by any means other than whether or not you get paid, when, like Raina said, it's such a vague and growing field.

As for the comparison between "clown" and "acrobat"... I don't understand that one :\ what makes a clown any less professional if they get paid to do it? Does "professional" have to mean "goes to great physical effort"? Or are you just defining it based on what you think is graceful or beautiful or important? Because that's subjective as hell.

[ShyMer]

Some mers can swim at great depths and hold their breath a long time and are not professional mermaids. Having these skills may be good for a pro mermaid to have, but it's not the main qualifier. It's not logical.

You could probably say that there are different kinds of professional mermaids, though, which could account for some of the confusion.

[SeaGlass Siren]

KUmBAYA my lorrrd


This is getting tiring lol..

[Mermaid Kelda]

You could probably say that there are different kinds of professional mermaids, though, which could account for some of the confusion.
Yeah, I can agree with that. Like most fields, people specialise in different areas.

[malinghi]

This discussion is very heated. If you wish to continue discussing this, please be respectful and exercise caution so that you do not say something that might violate our rule against harassment.

I'd also like to strongly suggest to both Coradion and Raina that it is unlikely you will resolve your differences in a couple posts, and once you have shared your opinion is is perhaps best not to engage, and to simply leave the matter be.

[Coradion]

I believe professional means exactly what it sounds like - that it's your profession.
What makes you a professional photographer? Taking great photos? Or getting paid? I'd argue there are many "professional" photographers whose shots aren't all that great, but they get paid to do it because people don't know any better. Similarly, there are amazingly talented photographers who don't take photos to get paid - they take photos because they love doing so. So, whether you're professional doesn't equate to whether you're good at what you do. But I suppose that depends on how you actually want to define "professional". In this case, I used the dictionary's definition ;)

Also, is a photographer suddenly not professional any more if they start specialising in kids' parties? If they still take great photos and get paid to do so, why does working with kids suddenly boot them out of the A-league?
I don't think anyone gets to define what makes you a pro mermaid by any means other than whether or not you get paid, when, like Raina said, it's such a vague and growing field.

As for the comparison between "clown" and "acrobat"... I don't understand that one :\ what makes a clown any less professional if they get paid to do it? Does "professional" have to mean "goes to great physical effort"? Or are you just defining it based on what you think is graceful or beautiful or important? Because that's subjective as hell.



My comparison for clown and acrobat is kind of like anybody can put on a costume and call themselves a clown. Not everyone can be an acrobat. Both entertain and work in a similar field but one takes more rigorous training and usually an inherent talent. Sometimes you're just physically incapable of doing something, like with cirque sometimes no amount of desire will make you more flexible. No matter how much you might want to be able to perform a trick some people just can't. I think that's what separates what people often consider the pro mers like Hannah and Melissa from others. Melissa is clearly on a higher level than most people with tails as far as aquatic talent goes. To be a seaworld trainer is pretty hardcore I have some friends who are dolphin and seal trainers, most positions have thousands of applicants and physical fitness and swim tests are required. If you can't hold your breath and swim the distance you don't get the job period. People like Hannah also have some serious balls, she doesn't just say she thinks something is wrong she goes out and actually does something about it and uses her status to accomplish things. How many people here would willingly dive with sharks, even great whites to prove a point? Not many. On top of that she dives without a mask, I've been in the water with sharks before and I'm okay with it, but I'm not gonna get in with them without being able to see them and watch their reactions very carefully. That seems to be what separates the pros and they attract media attention a lot of the time without needing to seek it out or self promote.

Larger display tanks like the one at Pacific Beach Hotel on O'ahu are fairly deep. The one at Pac Beach is twenty six feet deep, in order to be a mermaid there where you are paid to dive several times a day in a tail and you must be able to swim down to the bottom set of windows which is a minimum twenty feet. That is one case where if you can't make the dive you're not going to get the job. That's a criteria that a large company has set down for what they consider necessary to be a pro or at least employed mer.

[PearlieMae]

It's obvious there are MANY levels of every profession.

Including Clown. Some people study for years and work at perfecting the historic art of Clown (Commedia dell'Arte, for example). Clowns - many of whom are also employed by Cirque du Soleil, by the way - are NOT acrobats. Your metaphor is flawed and you are insulting another profession. Comparing clowns to acrobats is like comparing apples to rabbits.

What one large company requires for one job does not set the standard for what that job is everywhere.

[AniaR]

Agreed with pearliemae.

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[AniaR]

Melissa and Hannah both have copies of my book. :)

No one ever seems to pay attention to mermaid linden. She works exclusively for celebs and I believe out of all the mermaids has the best free dive. She free dives for a living and is also a judge for it. I chat with her on Facebook and she's done some amazing things. She also trained the dive bar mermaids and she has an online kids show.

The two pro mers who made the statements about other pro meds both own my book. One of them used to spam me relentlessly to share their f.b. page.

Professional in subjective. It just irks me when people put down the very people they have gone to for help. If I'm using myself as an example here, and under the idea that working with kids doesn't make me a pro Mer... Then why buy my book? Why use my ideas and tutorials? Why ask me for help?

This sort of mentality of hiding how people have learned seems to be rampant in our community as much as putting down what other mers do as not professional. Everyone wants to keep up the illusion they got to where they are on their own and their way of doing things is the only legitimate way of either doing it or being professional.

At the end of the day though it still doesn't take away from someone's accomplishments and work. So I really agree with what Citrine says in her post and I think its important we keep advocating for our different areas of expertise. Some of my fans brought up some awesome points on my page I'll have to share when I'm at a computer.

Can't change everyone's mind though. ;)

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[Mermaid Harmony]

I feel that professional means something different from within the community to outside of it. From what someone here might deem themselves as a hobbyist and occasionally be paid, a normal human might call them a professional because someone can hire you, even if you do only a few paying gigs a year. Where as online here, I feel we deem those who are professional as those who are making money from doing it on a regular basis, and then you have fans, soul mermaids, mermaids for fun, hobbyists, and occasionally a part time mermaid. I say that I'm a professional mermaid because I am hired out on a regular or semi regular basis,and people can hire me for things outside of birthday parties, and I have my own registered business and tax id. That's what made it for me. Everyone is different. As Coradion's best merfriend we've had this conversation many times, and have disagreeed and agreed along the way, and I'm okay with that, if each person had their own definition and fought over what to make it correct we'd never settle. Instead we agree that you can be a paid mermaid, and and hobbyist, and that there are many varients for each person.

[SeaGlass Siren]

My comparison for clown and acrobat is kind of like anybody can put on a costume and call themselves a clown. Not everyone can be an acrobat. Both entertain and work in a similar field but one takes more rigorous training and usually an inherent talent. Sometimes you're just physically incapable of doing something, like with cirque sometimes no amount of desire will make you more flexible. No matter how much you might want to be able to perform a trick some people just can't. I think that's what separates what people often consider the pro mers like Hannah and Melissa from others. Melissa is clearly on a higher level than most people with tails as far as aquatic talent goes. To be a seaworld trainer is pretty hardcore I have some friends who are dolphin and seal trainers, most positions have thousands of applicants and physical fitness and swim tests are required. If you can't hold your breath and swim the distance you don't get the job period. People like Hannah also have some serious balls, she doesn't just say she thinks something is wrong she goes out and actually does something about it and uses her status to accomplish things. How many people here would willingly dive with sharks, even great whites to prove a point? Not many. On top of that she dives without a mask, I've been in the water with sharks before and I'm okay with it, but I'm not gonna get in with them without being able to see them and watch their reactions very carefully. That seems to be what separates the pros and they attract media attention a lot of the time without needing to seek it out or self promote.

Larger display tanks like the one at Pacific Beach Hotel on O'ahu are fairly deep. The one at Pac Beach is twenty six feet deep, in order to be a mermaid there where you are paid to dive several times a day in a tail and you must be able to swim down to the bottom set of windows which is a minimum twenty feet. That is one case where if you can't make the dive you're not going to get the job. That's a criteria that a large company has set down for what they consider necessary to be a pro or at least employed mer.


Oh hold up I see what you're saying now. It makes sense. There needs to be certain requirements you have to accomplish or complete before you become "certified" or "become a professional".

Its like how someone can be certified to be a doctor but they're not certified to be a gynacogist or a nurse/surgeon. Different levels... It's like a video game!!!!

[Echidna]

So when pointing out "pro mers", you keep bringing up Melissa and Hannah.
And only them, because "they have the breathhold, ability etc".

Newsflash: yes, they are pro, but they're not the only ones, they just happen to be the most well-known.
They're celebrities. They're fantastic at what they do, but to limit the whole "pro" thing to them is like saying no actor is a professional unless he's a star.

This whole discussion seems pretty pointless, because it's well defined what professional is, and it's been mentioned many times already.
"Mermaid" is a quite new profession with many specializations.
Many require great freediving/swimming abilities, but not all.
This has nothing to do whether the mer in question is a professional or not.

Going on about what you personally think has the most merit adds nothing to the discussion, or what defines a professional (aka being paid).

[AniaR]

But certification and levels don't apply to every job. You can be an H.R. Specialist who simply has their H.R degree (your schooling) but be specialist based on your experience. I can be a teacher but then also specialize in ESL, Learning disabilities, a specific topic or age group, private or public school etc and none of those things makes me any less a professional. I think the issue with mermaiding is that it's not exactly a recognized job you can apply for. I don't see it as different levels, it's different areas of specialty, or for some people it's a generalist. A G.P. doctor is no more or no less a professional than someone who has gone into a specific field. My point is, if you're going to differentiate, then differentiate between people who consistently work and people who do it as a hobby. Not the type of work they're doing. Like I said, you could stretch that thinking to anything. Hannah Fraser has been a model much longer than she's been a mermaid and does just as much if not more modelling work than mermaid work. So is she a model who wears a mermaid tail? Melissa is a pearl diver at sea world (she was only briefly an animal trainer and didn't enjoy it) and has been for longer than she's been a mermaid and works at that job still full time while doing mermaid stuff on the side. So is she a pearl diver who is also a mermaid? Or think of musicians. Raffi goes on tour, sells albums, gives interviews and collaborates with other musicians, and publishes books. He plays kids music. So is he a music professional, a kid's entertainer, or both?

I think in society in general, people who work with children in any capacity are constantly having to validate the work they do because society never sees it as professional. Everyone thinks because they were a kid they know how to handle one, or because they went to school they know how to be a teacher. You don't walk into your doctors office and demand to see his credentials, but it happens to teachers all the time. In Canada we have the same amount of education for teachers as many doctors do, and the same intense level of practicum requirement. This isn't just me making it up, there are loads and loads of peer reviewed studies on this issue, books about it, and they teach about it in pretty much any educational program that is geared toward teaching or working with kids. It's not just sit in a tail and do nothing but look pretty for the kids... mermaids who try to pull that will not last long ;) (but I mean that's all the divebar mermaids really do, swim around in a shallow tank in a bar- are they not professionals? Just too subjective!) Anyway, I hope that gives some insight into why I find it so interesting a topic for debate. Because it's not just a debate in the mermaid world, it's a debate in the professional world too.

And I'm with you Harmony. I pay taxes for my company, I pay insurance, I employ 4 other people-soon to expand to 6. I have a company vehicle and company materials (.e.g cameras) In the government's eyes, I'm a professional and I am entitled to all the benefits and all the taxes that go with it. There are actually huge upgrades coming to Halifax Mermaids and big changes people will see within the next year directly because our government has decided to financially reward us for some of our entrepreneurial achievements. I just haven't said anything publicly about it til everything is all finished up ;)

I will say, I find when one person/company starts making statements like that, it comes more from a place of insecurity and worry about competition. If they can influence the market's ideas of what's professional, then maybe people wont go to other services. It happens all the time in industry. My boyfriend worked for a company that made energy efficient LED Street lights, and at least half the marketing was how the competitors couldn't realllllly be considered efficient, or LEd, or whatever the hot button issue was. If someone does something you don't, you try and make what you offer look like it's the better thing. Normal competitor business stuff.

Anyway, I put the question to my fans to see what some of them think. They're my fans, so obviously they're biased. But a few of them came up with some very comprehensive thoughts I wanted to share:

Sheroes Entertainment Mermaids and Pirates (https://www.facebook.com/SheroesEntertainment) We specialize in professional mermaid entertainment for children. If anything, children are some of the hardest judges of a good performance. Adults are happy to be entertained, children need it to be REAL while being entertained. Our team is always working on increasing breath hold because it assists in our on camera work. That said, SCUBA certs are more important for us than breath hold. Our crew is almost all dive trained and we use tanks frequently on our best shoots and always work with a full rescue diver team. Our people have SAG credits, lifeguard certs, stunt resumes, etc. Some have even worked with Cirque du Soleil before. What makes them professional mermaids is the combination of their attention to professionalism in business (e.g. they see it AS a business, not a hobby) and they are constantly looking at their mermaid work from a holistic approach for improvement.... costuming, movement, physical fitness, poise, knowledge of the ocean, realistic use of props, etc. I think that the devotion one gives to creating an exceptional performance and their dedication to mastering its trade matter more than a singular credential.

Michelle Fernandes Brandl (https://www.facebook.com/Ivoryleopard) There's too much of a range of what people do as mermaids that it cannot be confined in a cookie cutter pattern. If your job is to wear a fish tail then you are a professional mermaid.

Carrie Loudoun (https://www.facebook.com/carrie.loudoun) If you get paid: your a professional mermaid. What you do to get paid; model, work with kids, perform, etc= doesn't change that you get paid for a service! That's how I've always seen it


John Jay (https://www.facebook.com/aquariumsbyjohn) most mermaids are surface based and that is where kids are a few have some dive skills but I know one performer that learned to swim late in Life. you need no more than a 30 second breath hold to have a great show in a pool or tank. (please note John Jay is a free diving/breath holding instructor)

Melissa Lehman (https://www.facebook.com/MissaAlamasy) I feel this image is appropriate. Professional by definition means engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime. If this by definition is your main paying occupation you are considered a professional. I think the better word here though is lifestyle This is something that from the mermaids I've talked to don't consider a job. It's their life, their passion, their dream to be this. Paying the bills is a perk but this is a way of life be it making children smile, putting on shows, free diving, modeling, or ocean conservation all of it! Any of it! To say you are more professional than someone else sounds very well unprofessional.

Lesley Neily (https://www.facebook.com/lesley.neily) In all seriousness, I think it has a lot to do with approach and intent. If I were to buy a tail tomorrow and start enjoying myself swimming about and posing for pics, even maybe doing the odd public event, I could be considered as having a mermaid hobby. And I would likely be very content with that and never take it farther.
You have built a viable business surrounding your mermaid life, and anyone who doesn't think you're a professional because you do parties is not paying attention.

Michi Kaioh (https://www.facebook.com/michikaioh) If you make your income from something, it can be considered your profession. Simple as that.


and probably the best most informative comment from someone who works there:

Joseph McGarry (https://www.facebook.com/joseph.mcgarry1) For self-employed mermaids, the IRS has 9 factors to determine whether someone is in business or it's just a hobby. They are 1. Businesslike manner, 2. Time and Effort, 3. Expertise, 4. Expectation of asset appreciation, 5. Success in other activities, 6. History of income and loss, 7. Occasional profits, 8. Dependency on income, 9. Element of personal pleasure (The fact that you get personal pleasure from doing it does not mean that it is not a business.)

[AniaR]

Annd while I'm typing a book, Catluna comes in for the win!!! <3

[Merman Dan]

I can't get this out of my head, now... ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbWwC6H2Hd0

[Seatan]

LMAO, Dan I love you.

[Coradion]

Oh hold up I see what you're saying now. It makes sense. There needs to be certain requirements you have to accomplish or complete before you become "certified" or "become a professional".

Its like how someone can be certified to be a doctor but they're not certified to be a gynacogist or a nurse/surgeon. Different levels... It's like a video game!!!!


Exactly! Like Harmony and I both have business licenses and pay taxes on what we do so for me at least it's more than hobbyist level and could be deemed professional. I feel for Mermaid Harmony though she's much more the professional than I am. She's always booked for lots of different kinds of events, has cards, and makes an active effort to present herself as a professional. She's careful about what's even on her personal facebook since she's friends with lots of kids and parents kind of thing. Harmony is also always striving to improve her physical abilities to be a mer. Like free diving practice, always swimming, and working on her breath hold.

[Mermaid Kelda]

Like Harmony and I both have business licenses and pay taxes on what we do so for me at least it's more than hobbyist level and could be deemed professional.
That's exactly what Raina has been saying, though. If it's a registered business and you pay taxes, it's professional.


I feel for Mermaid Harmony though she's much more the professional than I am. She's always booked for lots of different kinds of events, has cards, and makes an active effort to present herself as a professional. She's careful about what's even on her personal facebook since she's friends with lots of kids and parents kind of thing. Harmony is also always striving to improve her physical abilities to be a mer. Like free diving practice, always swimming, and working on her breath hold.
But that's exactly what Raina (and many other mers) do...? Other than physical limitations that can't be "practiced" away. And I thought you said before that Harmony wasn't a professional? That she was a children's entertainer?


If you get paid regularly to swim, do shoots, commercials, and big events as a mermaid where you're there for the novelty of being a graceful mythical creature then I'd think you're a pro.
Additionally, while I disagree that you have to do commercials/publicised events to be a pro, everything you've listed here Raina has done. So I honestly don't know what you're trying to achieve with this.

[SeaGlass Siren]

i see what both raina and coradion are saying. and i personally think they're saying the same thing... i think it's just "expressing of ideas" and "ideas being interpreted differently" that's been happening.

Gaiiiiiis stahhhp it. o-o stahhhhhhhp

[SeaGlass Siren]

But certification and levels don't apply to every job. You can be an H.R. Specialist who simply has their H.R degree (your schooling) but be specialist based on your experience. I can be a teacher but then also specialize in ESL, Learning disabilities, a specific topic or age group, private or public school etc and none of those things makes me any less a professional. I think the issue with mermaiding is that it's not exactly a recognized job you can apply for. I don't see it as different levels, it's different areas of specialty.


that's what was more of what i was going for. i wasn't sure if my ideas were coming across properly.
areas of specialty and level of skills was more of what i was going for. of course it doesnt apply to every job, but i mean in a sense of personal "levelling up"


Like... lets compare me to you. I sit and model in a tail. does that make me a pro mermaid? clearly not :P because that's all i can do. you on the other hand, can hold your breath and swim/dunk your head underwater without freaking out about water getting into your nose.

...i have much "levelling up" to do. does it kinda make some sorta sense? .__.

[Seatan]

I honestly think that you can make what you want of the word 'professional' when it comes to mermaiding. You're a pro-mermaid if you say you are. It's a self-declared title usually used to promote what you do. You really can't compare it to doctors or teachers, since those are things you go to school for if you really want, which might give you the right to say 'Well, I am more professional because I became an MD, got teacher certified, etc' than people who do, say, herbal healing or teach Sunday school and don't have degrees for medicine or teaching. There is no school for mermaids to go to or tests for them to pass or anything else, so having "levels" is just all in people's minds.

If you don't want to consider people who do kids' parties "professionals," that is your right since we don't have any laws defining what is a promer, but honestly I think we should all just let people call themselves what they wish. There is no Bar Exam for mermaids, no Council of Mermaids to declare who is and isn't a "pro." 99% of the world would never even THINK 'professional' and 'mermaid' are words that could go together. I say, if you consider what you do to warrant the title of professional, then no one else has the right to say otherwise, not until some official standards are set up.

In the end, I think we are using the wrong word here. It isn't whether or not you are a professional, it's whether you are a very FAMOUS professional. 'Actor' is really the best comparison to 'mermaid,' and while you may not be a FAMOUS actor if all you do is, say, play a pirate at the Ren Faire or kids' parties, you can still call yourself a professional. Are you on the level of Johnny Depp in Pirates of the Caribbean? No, but that doesn't mean you're not a professional actor--you're being paid for your work. It simply means that you're not super FAMOUS for being a professional actor.

I would say that people like Hannah Frasier are VERY FAMOUS professional mermaids (a level Raina is approaching, obviously, but has not quite achieved as broadly as Hannah has yet), while some of the other mers are simply pro mers who don't get a lot of media coverage.

[Blondie]

In my personal opinion...

Paid = Pro

Despite what you do, whether that be parties, modeling, free diving, or lectures, if you're getting paid to do it in some form, you're professional in my mind. Even if it all goes to a charity that's pro. Saying something like, "You have to be a free diver to be a professional mermaid" is kinda like saying "You can only be a heart surgeon to be considered a surgeon." There's different breeds of professional.

[AniaR]

Like... lets compare me to you. I sit and model in a tail. does that make me a pro mermaid? clearly not :P because that's all i can do. you on the other hand, can hold your breath and swim/dunk your head underwater without freaking out about water getting into your nose.

If the comparison was people starting out in a tail compared to people who do a bunch of different things in a tail, I would have agreed. But the comparison was people doing kids parties in a tail. I couldn't DO a kid's party without all the skills I use for all my other mer-gigs and event. (Kids parties make up about 1/2 of my income and time, the other things are filled with either adult or all ages/commercial work)

Also, I certainly wont argue that Melissa is a much better swimmer than I am, but if you're going to measure success what *is* the success? I travel for mermaid stuff, I've done more music videos/tv appearances (I just filmed several in the past few months that I can't post until they are released) they just happen to all be Canadian. I can support myself full time with my mermaid work, along with 2 other mermaids and an assistant (plus 1 other sub mermaid and 1 sub assistant). Actually wrote and published a book (Melissa was a character in one written and illustrated by someone else), and melissa has used the very tips in my book in the order they were written in to help her expand her media reach and social networking and kids parties. Thing is, I *don't* think I'm a better mermaid than her, or really anyone one else, but I make the comparison to show that it's seriously SUBJECTIVE. It's also important to look at context. Canada has a smaller population base. We have the same amount of people in our WHOLE COUNTRY than in California. We also have no aquariums on the East Coast willing to take mermaids and only a few on the west who are even considering. (and that's including the Ripley's Franchices). For what I am doing in Canada, I am every bit as well known as Melissa- in Canada. Few people know who she or any other big name mers are here. Just like how the Mermaids who are overseas and have several in the top of their field who also don't seem to be in the list of top pro mers- but probably should. Mermaids in their own respective countries will all have different opportunities. But I walk into other business establishments and people know who I am. The costume designer from Splash who has nothing to do with the mercommunity, but designed the tail for Shouse to make even personally contacted me when I released my book. For someone like him to find me, I have to believe I have reached a level of professionalism whether people want to agree with that or not.

Some mermaids have reached their high level by running swim schools. Others (Like Sheroes) by their amazing photoshoots. It's just so. incredibly. subjective. You can't just (as the two mermaids in the original post suggested) look at the couple of mermaids who free dive on a regular basis and consider them the only professionals. Have you tried free diving in Canadian waters? lol it's pretty green and cold on the East Coast, and I can't be dropping mad coin to fly around the world just for the illusion of looking more professional because I do some things in deeper water :p


And just in regards to,

Gaiiiiiis stahhhp it. o-o stahhhhhhhp

We did stop. Mal directed his post at me and Cor. We're still engaging in conversation/debate and so is everyone else and that's what the forum is for. We just stopped the name calling as per requested. Nobody else is doing that or being dramatic. Just engaging with each other.

[AniaR]

See, this is why I need to stop writing wall o texts but I have no idea how else to write. LOL because you all end up making such great comments.


I would say that people like Hannah Frasier are VERY FAMOUS professional mermaids (a level Raina is approaching, obviously, but has not quite achieved as broadly as Hannah has yet), while some of the other mers are simply pro mers who don't get a lot of media coverage.

Agreed and that's how I interpreted it too from his examples. Pro=famous. But even famous is subjective. I'm famous in Canada! lol (but p.s. thanks for the vote of confidence) and I think your actor comparison is right on.


Despite what you do, whether that be parties, modeling, free diving, or lectures, if you're getting paid to do it in some form, you're professional in my mind. Even if it all goes to a charity that's pro. Saying something like, "You have to be a free diver to be a professional mermaid" is kinda like saying "You can only be a heart surgeon to be considered a surgeon." There's different breeds of professional.

That's a great example. It made me think too that even people who don't go all the way still end up being called "a medical professional" or a "legal professional" too.

Also if I haven't said it yet, your sig is great

[SeaGlass Siren]

If the comparison was people starting out in a tail compared to people who do a bunch of different things in a tail, I would have agreed. But the comparison was people doing kids parties in a tail. I couldn't DO a kid's party without all the skills I use for all my other mer-gigs and event. (Kids parties make up about 1/2 of my income and time, the other things are filled with either adult or all ages/commercial work)

Also, I certainly wont argue that Melissa is a much better swimmer than I am, but if you're going to measure success what *is* the success? I travel for mermaid stuff, I've done more music videos/tv appearances (I just filmed several in the past few months that I can't post until they are released) they just happen to all be Canadian. I can support myself full time with my mermaid work, along with 2 other mermaids and an assistant (plus 1 other sub mermaid and 1 sub assistant). Actually wrote and published a book (Melissa was a character in one written and illustrated by someone else), and melissa has used the very tips in my book in the order they were written in to help her expand her media reach and social networking and kids parties. Thing is, I *don't* think I'm a better mermaid than her, or really anyone one else, but I make the comparison to show that it's seriously SUBJECTIVE. It's also important to look at context. Canada has a smaller population base. We have the same amount of people in our WHOLE COUNTRY than in California. We also have no aquariums on the East Coast willing to take mermaids and only a few on the west who are even considering. (and that's including the Ripley's Franchices). For what I am doing in Canada, I am every bit as well known as Melissa- in Canada. Few people know who she or any other big name mers are here. Just like how the Mermaids who are overseas and have several in the top of their field who also don't seem to be in the list of top pro mers- but probably should. Mermaids in their own respective countries will all have different opportunities. But I walk into other business establishments and people know who I am. The costume designer from Splash who has nothing to do with the mercommunity, but designed the tail for Shouse to make even personally contacted me when I released my book. For someone like him to find me, I have to believe I have reached a level of professionalism whether people want to agree with that or not.

Some mermaids have reached their high level by running swim schools. Others (Like Sheroes) by their amazing photoshoots. It's just so. incredibly. subjective. You can't just (as the two mermaids in the original post suggested) look at the couple of mermaids who free dive on a regular basis and consider them the only professionals. Have you tried free diving in Canadian waters? lol it's pretty green and cold on the East Coast, and I can't be dropping mad coin to fly around the world just for the illusion of looking more professional because I do some things in deeper water :p


And just in regards to,


We did stop. Mal directed his post at me and Cor. We're still engaging in conversation/debate and so is everyone else and that's what the forum is for. We just stopped the name calling as per requested. Nobody else is doing that or being dramatic. Just engaging with each other.
Last part: it was directed at Melaina when she was pointing out coradions posts. More of the misinterpreting of the information. The stahhhhaaaping was at that :p

But back on topic. No free diving freaks me out LOL.

Like I said I have a lot of "leveling up "to do

[Mermaid Kelda]

Last part: it was directed at Melaina when she was pointing out coradions posts. More of the misinterpreting of the information. The stahhhhaaaping was at that :p
I don't know how I've misinterpreted him - it seemed to me like he was contradicting his own points - but if that's the case then I'll concede :P

[Coradion]

I don't know how I've misinterpreted him - it seemed to me like he was contradicting his own points - but if that's the case then I'll concede :P

I wasn't very clear in trying to make my distinctions. It's my failure, not your misinterpretation. I view the terms "professional mermaid" and "professional" differently.

I'm just trying to say I think of pro mermaids as people who are paid because they can not only look good as mermaids but have trained themselves and their bodies to be able to push past what most people can do. I guess I see it with more exclusivity. Not everyone who owns a tail can physically do what people like Hannah and Melissa can do. I think of a pro mer as someone who has essentially leveled up their swimming and diving abilities as its been put and been able to combine it with the grace that's associated with a mermaid.

I think you could be a "professional" of sorts in an area of entertaining you choose and be able to call it whatever you like and justify it to a degree by saying you get paid. If this is the only criteria though then anyone who owns a tail could get paid to show up at a party and put it on and call themselves a professional. Do I think people like Mermaid Harmony are professionals? Yes, I do.

Do I think I am a pro model though because I'm signed with an agency and have been paid to model or because my regular job title with Abercrombie and Fitch is Model? No, I personally don't.

I feel pro is too vague a term, with the model example it's like a supermodel vs. someone whose been paid for to do a few local campaigns. From now on I'll just call people like Hannah and Melissa "Super Mers" or "Mer Goddesses" to avoid confusion because they are what I think of when I think pro mermaid.


Also on a side note unless my post has a quoted comment it's not in response to anything Raina said. She's on my ignore list.

[Mermaid Kelda]

Fair enough, I see where you're coming from. And by that interpretation I guess I can agree. But I do think that, like you said, "pro" really is too vague a term, and because of that subjectivity I don't think it's right call someone out for using their own interpretation of the word.

[Blondie]

That's a great example. It made me think too that even people who don't go all the way still end up being called "a medical professional" or a "legal professional" too.

Also if I haven't said it yet, your sig is great

:cthulhu: Awww shucks thanks!

The only beef I have with the pro debate is when people buy a tail and swim around in their tail, learn some tricks, and then declare themselves as a professional mermaid. That's just recreational. Which there's nothing wrong with that! That's what I do xD You don't have to make money off of mermaiding to enjoy it. I also think that doing just one party or photoshoot (regardless of pay) does not make you a professional either. Once you have a few under your belt and you're doing this almost regularly, then you can change your title to professional. Just because you go ice skating once doesn't make you a figure skater :P But after a few classes and lessons then you can consider yourself a figure skater.

[Mermaid Citrine]

Wow, this has definitely stirred an interesting discussion ! I just wanted to make a note that I edited my original post for a few reasons. I changed it to 1 mermaid who said this (not 2) I had to go back and re-read something and also she did not use the word professional, she just said others aren't mermaids if they can't free dive like her....so actually this wasn't really a thing about using the word pro or not (thought I tend to also agree with many posters on here that pro is a very ambiguous term when it comes to being a mermaid performer ! since there is not certification, etc.) but anyway, she bluntly said not a 'mermaid' so that's what I thought was mean and un-called for.

my post was to hopefully point out that each of us have unique abilities and talents and the cool thing is that you can use those in your own way and don't need to compare yourself to others unless a client is looking for something in particular that you cannot do (as in my personal example of not diving past 10 ft) so then you can refer them to others who can or if they are looking for someone for a kids' party and you don't do those, you can refer, or someone who sells tails and you don't, etc, etc, etc.

peace, love and hugs :)

[Mermaid Citrine]

And also...... ;) Isn't it so exciting that we can all be mermaids and mermen ?? !! The possibilities are endless for your own look, what type of tail you wear, what you do in the tail, etc, etc. Everyone can use their creativity and make the mermaid thing work for them. And who cares if you do it for fun/hobby, for charity, get paid some time, get paid big bucks all the time, can afford a ferrari and a mansion from your mermaiding or just enough rent for a room and a bicycle ;) Everyone can do it in their own way. For example, around the time I started mermaiding a few years back I also started hoop dancing, acro yoga, and learning to spin poi and I love all these things so I made a little video of me hula hooping and poi spinning in my tail (and I'm going to make an updated version of it soon because my hooping and poi is much better now) but anyway, its totally random right ? I had never seen a mermaid hooping or spinning poi so I thought, why the hell not ? Of course, its not the usual thing so I will admit I have not gotten paid to do this particular act yet but I don't care, its fun and I know one of these days someone will go for a hula hooping, poi-spinning, mermaid go-go dancer at their event ;) and my boyfriend and I are working on acro yoga with the tail on...its def. a bit of a challenge ! Also I recently started this photo-shoot business with my boyfriend to offer something different and to help transform everyone into mers ! One of the things I would hear all the time when I was out in my tail is "I wanna do that ! " but a lot of people couldn't afford their own tails or really didn't want to actually swim in a tail, just wanted cool pictures so I decided we had an opportunity we could fulfill in that and so far its been going great. It super fun for me because I get to share the mermaid love with more people by transforming them and seeing them so happy to wear the tail and show off their own unique beauty. Anyway, if you are passionate about mermaids (like all of us are) you can make it into anything you want and you don't need anyone to validate what you are doing, just go for it and have fun.

[AniaR]

The only beef I have with the pro debate is when people buy a tail and swim around in their tail, learn some tricks, and then declare themselves as a professional mermaid. That's just recreational. Which there's nothing wrong with that! That's what I do xD You don't have to make money off of mermaiding to enjoy it. I also think that doing just one party or photoshoot (regardless of pay) does not make you a professional either. Once you have a few under your belt and you're doing this almost regularly, then you can change your title to professional. Just because you go ice skating once doesn't make you a figure skater :P But after a few classes and lessons then you can consider yourself a figure skater.

Totally. One of the big things I tried to get across in my book is that there is a huge amount of work involved. It's not just about slapping on a tail. But honestly, I don't see TOO many mermaids who have barely started calling themselves Pro. I think the problem is more with tail makers (as I've mentioned before) who either haven't made a tail, or have made only 1, calling themselves professional tail makers and trying to sell a bunch of spots, personally. I do remember reading from 1 mermaid that she owned a tail but didn't know how to swim at all. So yeah that one... pretty pushing it for me. But then again KL can't swim and really loves being in her tail. So again, so freaking subjective.

I think maybe there could be specifications, "Professional Mermaid Athlete" fits to me, a bit better, for the mers whose main focus is diving- though many mers dabble in many areas too. I still agree with Melania's points.


my post was to hopefully point out that each of us have unique abilities and talents and the cool thing is that you can use those in your own way and don't need to compare yourself to others unless a client is looking for something in particular that you cannot do

Agree!

[Mermaid Harmony]

1. Coradion I think mer goddesses is perfect
2. Someone said something about a mermaid council. Yes. Let's do it, that sounds amazing.
I want to put on my resume that I am on a mermaid council.
So cool

[Seatan]

Someone said something about a mermaid council. Yes. Let's do it, that sounds amazing.
I want to put on my resume that I am on a mermaid council.
So cool

I'll bring my trident! ;P

[AniaR]

well I sit on advisory boards for other mermaid companies, so why not a counsel? lol The counsel of high fin is called to order. lol

[Thalassa]

Wasn't going to weigh in, but I noticed something interesting today. When I'm talking to non-mers, I use the term "professional mermaid" to distinguish my "I'm doing this as a business venture, as a job" attitude from the "WHEE! I'm a mermaid!" attitude people think I have.

However, when I'm talking to other mers I don't call myself a professional. I don't feel like I'm a professional because although I perform regularly and get paid for my gigs, I have a long way to go before I feel I am up to the "standard" of professional. I feel like I need to have some "wow" factor first. And if someone were to tell me I'm not professional, I'd be a bit hurt because that, to me, tells me they think I'm not professional in attitude or manner, but I wouldn't contest it because I know I'm not that great a mermaid.

But then, that's me. And I wouldn't presume to tell any mermaid they're not a professional or not a mermaid. I just feel that's...just sort of rude.

[Echidna]

mer goddesses

waaaay overboard.

To be honest, for the longest time I didn't even know of Melissa, I went just "who?" when people kept mentioning her.
And I never was impressed with her swimming videos either, because in my eyes, she lacks the magical, true mermaid feel that Hannah possesses.
For me, Hannah = real mermaid, Melissa = human girl swimmer wearing a tail costume.

I don't want to spark a "who is better"-debate here, because I know this is totally subjective, I just wanted to mention not everyone is equally impressed by the gals just because they have media coverage.

(I bet I'm not alone with my opinion though, because on Hannah's greatest videos, there are always the same people commenting stuff like "can you even swim without moving your knees?? because Melissa can!!", and that speaks volumes really.
You can virtually see the venom of envy drip of those lines. :p)

[AniaR]

There is success, and then there is the illusion of success. Some people are really good at landing big things, and others are really good at suggesting they're landing big things. ;) Remember when mertailor used to claim to be a pearl diver at sea world, and Melissa enlightened us that he was in fact employed for all of half a day? There's a lot of that sort of exaggerating and glossing over going on in the mer-world. Melissa did a lot of ground work to promote herself before she even owned a tail, and much of her self-made documentary about her life was done when she was just starting out, and then added to for different versions later.

I mean, lots of people do lots of things but it seems if it's not documented on the internet, does anyone know it happened? If a tree falls in the forest sort of deal. ;)

There's also loads of other pro mermaids no one is mentioning here that out-do both Hannah and Melissa in different areas. Mermaid Dana free dives in the ocean with wild animals on a DAILY basis.

[Echidna]

There's also loads of other pro mermaids no one is mentioning here that out-do both Hannah and Melissa in different areas. Mermaid Dana free dives in the ocean with wild animals on a DAILY basis.

Yes, that's why it rubs me the wrong way if people always keep mentioning only Hannah and Melissa.
They get the most media attention, but that doesn't mean they are "the best" (however you define that).

And applying the "if you have to say you're this and that, then you truly aren't, because if you really were you wouldn't have to say it"-logic here:
there's only one mer who proclaims herself to be the "world's leading mermaid". :rolleyes:

[Mermaid Dottie]

Wasn't going to weigh in, but I noticed something interesting today. When I'm talking to non-mers, I use the term "professional mermaid" to distinguish my "I'm doing this as a business venture, as a job" attitude from the "WHEE! I'm a mermaid!" attitude people think I have.

However, when I'm talking to other mers I don't call myself a professional. I don't feel like I'm a professional because although I perform regularly and get paid for my gigs, I have a long way to go before I feel I am up to the "standard" of professional. I feel like I need to have some "wow" factor first. And if someone were to tell me I'm not professional, I'd be a bit hurt because that, to me, tells me they think I'm not professional in attitude or manner, but I wouldn't contest it because I know I'm not that great a mermaid.

But then, that's me. And I wouldn't presume to tell any mermaid they're not a professional or not a mermaid. I just feel that's...just sort of rude.
Thalassa, I think you're an incredible professional mermaid, and I want you to know that your skills with the kids inspire me so. You're beautiful, have a finominal voice, and can convince pretty much anyone with a wink or a fluke twitch that you are the real deal. <3

[Mermaid Momo]

I mean, lots of people do lots of things but it seems if it's not documented on the internet, does anyone know it happened? If a tree falls in the forest sort of deal. ;)

I'll take this moment to input that one very famous Internet saying :"pics or it didn't happen." Lol

After all we are in a picture dominated society where we need pictures of EVERYTHING to believe them. That's probably a big reason why other pro mermaids are glossed over because they don't have all those pictures floating all over the Internet (like Dana for example. For every one picture of see of her I see about 15 of Melissa )


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[AniaR]

Well take Raven for example. Everyone only thinks of her as a tail maker but she sustains her life and business on work she does in her tank. She works more than Melissa does in a tank, and gets booked for things just as high profile. But Raven is QUIET. She's not the kind to post "hey I did this music video" and then repost it ten times. She rarely even shares her media coverage when she gets it, and is quite selective of what they share on the page. But because I know her well, I know all the inside stuff she gets to do and how insanely successful their company is.

Dana posts daily, but she doesn't flood Facebook with the same images over and over, or spam with images that arent hers. She's been published in books too.

Linden has done just as many TV appearances as Hannah.


Raven got Melissa her first gig before she even owned a tail...put her in one of her own. There's a photo out there of the two of them in Raven's tails that seems to have dissapeared from Melissa's page.

I guess my point is- yet again- that it's all relative. Just because someone is loud, does not mean they are the best. And don't get me started on giving self titles like the World's Best etc.

[Mermaid Kalliope]

Okay... It's 4 AM and I really don't feel like reading the last... ten posts or so. I think I get the gist of it. @.@

So, I was once told by my flute teacher: If you're paid to do something, you're professional. Doesn't mean you're good, but you're a "professional."

THERE I SAID IT.

Also, I'm technically a professional crocheter... I get paid to crochet. Not on a daily, feed myself basis, but I do sell things.

AND (Then I'm done for the night and can come back and realise how sleepy I was)... I've recently started calling myself a professional mermaid. While I haven't started doing any gigs yet, I plan on doing them. If I just go around telling people that I'm a mermaid and I can do parties around here, they get weird. If I tell them that I am a professional mermaid and am available as entertainment for parties and events, they take me a lot more seriously about it. I've had some people MAJORLY pick apart what I can do. Just how things are around here. :-/

So, like it has been said: Majorly subjective and I think we all get the point.

NIGHT ALL. Sleepy mermaid is OUT <3

XD

[Coradion]

waaaay overboard.

To be honest, for the longest time I didn't even know of Melissa, I went just "who?" when people kept mentioning her.
And I never was impressed with her swimming videos either, because in my eyes, she lacks the magical, true mermaid feel that Hannah possesses.
For me, Hannah = real mermaid, Melissa = human girl swimmer wearing a tail costume.

I don't want to spark a "who is better"-debate here, because I know this is totally subjective, I just wanted to mention not everyone is equally impressed by the gals just because they have media coverage.

(I bet I'm not alone with my opinion though, because on Hannah's greatest videos, there are always the same people commenting stuff like "can you even swim without moving your knees?? because Melissa can!!", and that speaks volumes really.
You can virtually see the venom of envy drip of those lines. :p)


Not really overboard. We can call them whatever we want... I idolize people who are creative, push their bodies to the limits for swimming, and actually do something in the marine environment. Is it limited to people who get media coverage? Nope, they were just the easiest examples to pick out. I think that PearlieMae and Jessica are amazingly talented after seeing their tail sculpting and just the ideas they put into it. People who actually create things impress me. Same with people who take an active interest in doing good. Not just talk about it on the internet, but go out and volunteer like Ayesha. Those are people I think I'll definitely perceive as mer goddesses one day.

[PearlieMae]

Thanks! I can't wait to put it into action. But miles to swim before I sleep!

As it's been pointed out throughout this discussion, there is a bit of a disconnect between the practical definition or 'professional' and a subjective, aesthetic perception of the phrase... I think we've all agreed on that point.

[Jessica]

Not really overboard. We can call them whatever we want... I idolize people who are creative, push their bodies to the limits for swimming, and actually do something in the marine environment. Is it limited to people who get media coverage? Nope, they were just the easiest examples to pick out. I think that PearlieMae and Jessica are amazingly talented after seeing their tail sculpting and just the ideas they put into it. People who actually create things impress me. Same with people who take an active interest in doing good. Not just talk about it on the internet, but go out and volunteer like Ayesha. Those are people I think I'll definitely perceive as mer goddesses one day.

^thanks Coradion :)

I've been following this thread....and all the drama... Here's the thing....being a professional in an area doesn't necessarily make you successful. For example, I used to work in the mortgage industry and I wore black pants and heels everyday and was considered a business professional. I worked with lawyers, real estate agents and in conjunction with all the big banks (I worked for a broker). The thing most people don't know is that a lot of people in this industry are paid by commission, like I was. If you don't close a loan, you don't get paid. I had just started in the industry right before the market crashed and I literally could barely keep food on the table and a leaky roof over my head. Was I successful? No, I don't think I was at all. Was I a professional? Yes. I was good at my job but I had to turn down hundreds of applications for every loan I could do. It was maddening...

So...my point is that the term "professional" is really meaningless the way I see it. It doesn't necessarily indicate success and I don't think we need to define mermaids by it because it simply doesn't do justice to all of the incredible mermaids in the world.

The way I see it....who cares who calls themselves the "worlds leading mermaid" or "professional mermaid"? It doesn't impact me at all or change the way I view myself as a mermaid. Furthermore, I view being a mermaid as a form of art.....not as a job. I'm not a mermaid because I want to make money (although it would be nice) I'm a mermaid because it makes me happy. As the old saying goes...find a job you love and you will never work a day in your life. When I put on my tail, I get to bring mythology to life. I get to make adults smile, children squeal and most of all, I get to fulfill a need that I never realized I had.

Being a mermaid is simply living, breathing art. Call it professional if you must.....but I think "artist" is a much better term for what we do. :)

[SeaGlass Siren]

Jessica...

http://fsymbols.com/images/crying-meme.gif


THAT was the most beautiful and touching post I've ever read today.

[MermaidRanoria]

I think many people have made great points in their responses. In my opinion I think in order to define a "professional" we not only need to look at the hard definition to what "professional" means but also define "armature" as well. As these terms are the exact contrast to each other I think it gives a vary defined picture of what being a professional in any field requires. Armature obviously not being used in a derogatory since.

It is like the chicken and egg syndrome. What comes first the mermaid or the entertainer? The tail doesn't define your professionalism why should rubbing shoulder with celebs or free diving? Its a gimmick no mater how you use it. I wouldn't ask an extremely well known mermaid with a huge set of skill to entertain a bunch of a 8 year olds. Well, I guess I could but the cost would be more exorbitant than what my demands require. When that person showed up I surely wouldn't suggest or cry about how upset I was that I couldn't afford or book a "professional mermaid." Maybe some people would, but those are people in vary poor taste in my opinion.

Either way I'm not really saying anything that anyone else hasn't already said, but for me I feel i have a bit of a more unbiased about the statements as I am not heavily involved with the activity or the community yet. I do however have lots of professional experience in multiple fields from fish taxidermy to owning my own business. Why should professional mermaiding be the exception?


she just said others aren't mermaids if they can't free dive like her.
I'm not really sure of the context of this quote as I am not familiar with this person. Assuming they realize that mermaids are not real, comparing themselves to people that don't actively obtain the skill set of free diving sounds rather insecure. I don't know how many of you replying are professional mermaids, but I can see how this would side swipe anyone off guard. I see it more as a showing of character rather than insult if she meant exactly what she said. No offense to the person who made the original statement. I'm sure they're wonderful person. Sometimes we all get a case of fin in mouth so its possible it just came out completely wrong.

[AniaR]

Just FYI every extremely well known mermaid still does kid parties hehe.. ;)

And I agree who gets to decide what real mermaids are when they aren't real... Lol

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[Merman Dan]

"Second, there are, like, thirty Ray's Pizzas. They all claim to be the original. But the real one's on 11th." - Santa

[MermaidRanoria]

Just FYI every extremely well known mermaid still does kid parties hehe.. ;)

And I agree who gets to decide what real mermaids are when they aren't real... Lol

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Maybe we all have it wrong! Maybe not even human like at all. Fish on bottom, elephant on top!

My intention wasn't to imply that well known mermaids won't or can't do kids parties. :p Just drawing a comparison that the overwhelming majority of employers/clients will seek out a professional that fits their needs at the fairest pay/price they can find. The common denominator of getting paid once again.

Unfortunately, there is no mermaid super center where potential clients can just go choose one off the shelf or online based on their event's needs, place them in their basket, then check out. Until mermazon.com exists hiring professional contractors in the field is the most popular way it seems. Contractors are professionals too! lol

[AniaR]

... MermaidTales.net exists ;) lol

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[AniaR]

I was scrolling through tumblr and found this great gifset:

http://31.media.tumblr.com/0dc2fe62a3d30fa220a1e8d563455d88/tumblr_mvlubjV7Mh1rqsmuro4_500.png (http://31.media.tumblr.com/0dc2fe62a3d30fa220a1e8d563455d88/tumblr_mvlubjV7Mh1rqsmuro4_500.png)
http://25.media.tumblr.com/5c1896ccad76b7cbd6d961a94c82d460/tumblr_mvlubjV7Mh1rqsmuro5_500.png (http://25.media.tumblr.com/5c1896ccad76b7cbd6d961a94c82d460/tumblr_mvlubjV7Mh1rqsmuro5_500.png)
http://25.media.tumblr.com/17f5f989ac5aa40fa6ed3a592b116de0/tumblr_mvlubjV7Mh1rqsmuro2_500.png (http://25.media.tumblr.com/17f5f989ac5aa40fa6ed3a592b116de0/tumblr_mvlubjV7Mh1rqsmuro2_500.png)
http://24.media.tumblr.com/e98aa307c966e02e5049f42b854c2360/tumblr_mvlubjV7Mh1rqsmuro3_500.png (http://24.media.tumblr.com/e98aa307c966e02e5049f42b854c2360/tumblr_mvlubjV7Mh1rqsmuro3_500.png)
http://25.media.tumblr.com/d317f35c87a594f4a8ff70cd1d6b207e/tumblr_mvlubjV7Mh1rqsmuro1_500.png (http://25.media.tumblr.com/d317f35c87a594f4a8ff70cd1d6b207e/tumblr_mvlubjV7Mh1rqsmuro1_500.png)

[Mermaid Oshun]

best wishes to all professional mermaids. Kudos to you :mermaid kiss:

[TheChimera]

15822
i see what both raina and coradion are saying. and i personally think they're saying the same thing... i think it's just "expressing of ideas" and "ideas being interpreted differently" that's been happening.

Gaiiiiiis stahhhp it. o-o stahhhhhhhp

sorry couldnt resist :D

[Mermaid Melanie]

I read an awful article with another mer heavily dissing the mer community, saying there are only five really good mermaids and she is one of them, the rest are no good which I thought was pretty harsh but I guess some people need to be like this - talk themselves up a great deal to feel better about whatever insecurities they have…

[AniaR]

That same mer literally spammed my page yesterday asking me to share hers. She has been sucking up to me since she started.

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[PearlieMae]

I thinkI may have gotten the same thing on my FB page. I'm thinking who the fuck are YOU???

[AniaR]

Us poor unprofessional lowly mers... That they keep coming to for advice and publicity.

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[shimmygoddess]

This is a debate we have in our dance community as well. Also 'professional' vs. 'professionalism' are different in my opinion too

[Firemaid]

I never said I was contacted by them. I have told you repeatedly that I used the word aquarium because I didn't realize there WAS A Difference between that and oceanarium. But apparently you ignored those posts and keep calling me a liar despite my offering to forward you the emails, the contact name and phone number of the person who contacted me. You seem to have a habit of arguing with me and then never reading my replies where I give you all the information you ask for. You go to the bitch thread to passively aggressively complain about me validating myself? (but in a round about way you're doing exactly what you accuse) Lol you've previously called me a liar. Previously said I don't count as a professional and had some pretty vocal thoughts over thinking I shouldn't write a book. You recently told me off in a 2 year old thread because you didn't understand the context. If you're going to continue following me around to be critical about areas in which you have less experience than me ( like working with kids) expect me to respond in kind. Also didn't realizing clowning was the same as dancing and acro work.

You're the pro mermaid police but still using my tutorials eh? ( Dr. Sketchy)

Go complain about me on your other forum. All that goes on there is complaining about me and iona . I haven't even been on it but every met network member messaged me with the b.s. still waiting to be arrested for faking a screen shot over here. ;) ( a screenshot I might add I had nothing to do with sending to mods or taking) please. Tell me more . They also made their other forum when I wasn't even ON this one. I didn't use it for months. Had zero activity. So not sure how I bullied anyone into leaving. I wasn't even here. lol. They made a new forum because they were held accountable to the rules here, and didn't like that. However, that forum is the same as yuku. If you slander people, it only takes one click on "legal" for me to remove all the threads. That's the whole reasons why we upgraded to our own. So probably something to look at if you're going to keep calling me a liar for a post you misunderstood.

edit: plus you missed the point of Citrine's whole post. YOU don't get to decide who and what is professional.

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Where is this other forum?