HELP!!!!

[MerAnthony]

Ok to start out My children have lived with my sister for the past 3 years. This coming weekend of the 8th they will be back home with there mother an I. Now the help I need is to deal with my 9 year old. During this week (while at my sisters) she stole candy off her teacher at school. Almost a full bag. My sister is making her pay the teacher back for the candy. That is my sisters punishment, Mine for at my home was for her to write out on a piece of paper front an back "I shall not steal" but she had to fill the lines without skipping any. She has completely ignored me in this reguard to do what I have told her to do. I have even taken away her Nintendo DS an all other types of gaming form. An she says that she doesn't care if I do that. I told her if she wrote out the paper I wouldn't have to take away her games an stuff. She also has blatantly defied me in all aspects for her to write this paper I asked her to write. What can I do to get through to her? PLEASE HELP I am about ready to pull my hair out with her. So at this moment I feel like :anger explode::gah::headwall:

[PearlieMae]

I wish I could offer something useful, but I'm sure there are more qualified folks on here who will soon chime in, but when I got grounded, I had to sit on the edge of my bed with my empty hands in my lap. For DAYS.

instead of writing "I shall not steal", perhaps an essay on WHY it was wrong. Have her realize why her behavior is unacceptable.

She is obviously very troubled about something she can't articulate, so getting to the root of her troubles will be the first step to resolving the rebellion and acting out.

It sounds like a very complicated situation...she may be insecure about being displaced.

Hope you can work it out!

[Mermaid Octavia]

I don't know if this would help but if I were caught stealing, my parents would force me to write an apology letter and give it to the person I stole from.

[AniaR]

Well, why do you need an additional punishment? I mean if your kids haven't lived with you for 3 years, doling out extra punishment may not be the best idea for a 9 year old.

Also, why did she steal to begin with? Was it simply an impulse? Or was she put up to it? Was she hungry? Is there something more going on?

What did the teacher do about it?

Maybe a mermaid forum isn't the best place for parenting advice ;) I'm sure everyone has *ideas* but you'd be better off I think going to an actual parenting forum.

[Jessica]

9 year olds are tough! I have one and I also make her write sentences. I did find that it works better for my daughter to have her write "I will speak respectfully to my mother" instead of " I will not speak disrespectfully to my mother" it doesn't seem like much of a difference....but it does help her remember how she should speak and not how she shouldn't. It's a bit more positive I guess and it seems to help.

As for stealing....this is a tough issue to address and it could be that she's looking for attention. Since she's moving, she probably does feel insecure and her teacher is a constant in her life. She might have been looking for a way to get her teachers attention (and yours/your sister's) and didn't know how else to do it. I don't know your daughter so I could very easily be completely wrong about this but it's something that's worth considering. Has your daughter apologized to the teacher? It might be more effective in this situation to sit down with her and help her write a good apology letter to the teacher. If you get her to include all the reasons why stealing is wrong you can make it a real lesson in life.

I would also think about having a meeting with the teacher both with and without your daughter. The teacher spends a lot of time with her and might be able to help your daughter if you explain the situation and how the stealing is likely her way of acting out to a change in her home life. If you make your daughter write an apology letter, it would be best for her to give it to the teacher in person when no other kids are around. It would give the teacher a chance to say "I forgive you" and provide closure for the incident.

Kids are so frustrating at times...we all have our moments when we feel like ripping our hair out. Since she hasn't lived with you in awhile, be prepared...she will likely test the limits to see what she can get away with. It might help to provide a unified front....maybe sit down with your sister and make a list of rules that the kids have lived by while with her. If you make it clear to the kids that you have the same rules and punishments, it might help.

One more thing.....have you considered making a few new traditions? Maybe if you can help your daughter focus on happy stuff you will do together ....stuff to look forward to like....homemade pizza /movie night...a big Saturday morning breakfast ( maybe let the kids help cook?) or a weekly afternoon visit to the park...it might help. These are just a few ideas....I'm not a perfect parent by any means but this stuff works for me so I thought I would share. :)

Pearlie is right....an essay is also a great idea. :)

i truly wish you the best and I hope you can get this straightened out. Just remember....you're a merman and no nine year old can get the best of you ;)

[MerAnthony]

Raina my sister delt with it her way, an when I found out this past friday when I went to pick them up for the weekend I felt that just paying the teacher wasn't good enough because she wouldn't learn from it that stealing is wrong in any shape or form. An to answer your other questions I have no clue. I asked her why she took the candy an the only answer I got was, because she had it an I wanted it. As for what the teacher did is the same I have no clue because my sister doesn't tell me anything but the bad stuff they do. An she thinks I am going to scream an yell at them for doing bad stuff. As for putting this post in a parenting forum, I figured that seeing that people here are more open minded to problems of all sorts. Not just with tails or with a tail maker. Where I have seen that if it is posted in a parenting forum then they start to judge you an tell you that you are a bad parent or you kids need to be put on meds or something to that. I trust people here on Mernetwork more than taking this question to people in a parenting forum I really don't know.

[SIF]

I had a similar problem as a kid and have had it with several of the kids I have worked with at Daycare, Camp, the Zoo, Babysitting, etc. I've found that, particularly with girls, if you block social activity they respond. Even if it's just to get that activity back, they still learn from the experience and appease the rules. As an experiment and experimentee of this process I can safely say it usually works. If you girl is an inrovert and doesn't do a lot socially figure out where it is she goes when she isn't using games, the computer, the telli, books etc. and keep her from that place. if it's her room keep her involved in stuff outside it. If it's the living room, don't let her in. Do something in that room with the other kids and say she can't join you until she finishes the page. That way, you are addressing the issue with her and are attentive and attention-giving, but you are not giving her the attention you give the others because she's done something wrong and will not fix it. She'll figure out she can join you if she fixes the problems she's caused. Jessica has some incite here too. I do agree with Raina though, find the bottom of the story.
Thank you for putting this on the forum, Anthony.It's nice to see people with incite in multiple things and even nicer to see them help each other with it.



Ok to start out My children have lived with my sister for the past 3 years. This coming weekend of the 8th they will be back home with there mother an I. Now the help I need is to deal with my 9 year old. During this week (while at my sisters) she stole candy off her teacher at school. Almost a full bag. My sister is making her pay the teacher back for the candy. That is my sisters punishment, Mine for at my home was for her to write out on a piece of paper front an back "I shall not steal" but she had to fill the lines without skipping any. She has completely ignored me in this reguard to do what I have told her to do. I have even taken away her Nintendo DS an all other types of gaming form. An she says that she doesn't care if I do that. I told her if she wrote out the paper I wouldn't have to take away her games an stuff. She also has blatantly defied me in all aspects for her to write this paper I asked her to write. What can I do to get through to her? PLEASE HELP I am about ready to pull my hair out with her. So at this moment I feel like :anger explode::gah::headwall:

[MerAnthony]

Nyssaf1sh56 I plan on finding out the bottom of the story on what is going on. As for my sister an I talking about this, sorry but this will never happen. My sisters remedy for just about everything is yelling or screaming which is not good for the children. I can be at my sisters house just to pick my children up an all she does is yell at them for tiny stuff. Like getting there shoes on or putting on there jackets an getting ready to go with me for the weekend, an only being there just a few minutes I end up with a head ache. I do plan on calling the school where my children are (till friday) an talk to the teacher on what is going on, cause like I said my sister tells me nothing. As to why I have no clue. In my opinion my sister needs to goto parenting classes for all I hear from her boyfriend an his parents that my sister always is yelling at them.

[Seatan]

First I would schedule a conference with her teacher. Teachers know A LOT about the kids in their class, sometimes more than parents do. The teacher is a semi neutral third party who can tell you how she normally acts, if your sister won't. Ask the teacher how she interacts with other students, if she is an attention seeker or an introvert, whether or not she struggles in class. As for writing lines, I'm not fond if that method. It doesn't teach the kid anything they don't already, and it can breed a dislike of writing that can last for years.

I would also take her to talk to the teacher and let the teacher explain how that candy cost her money and she had plans for it,etc--a lot of kids don't really think if teachers as real humans, and realizing that a teacher had feelings like everybody else will likely make her feel guilty, something that punishment rarely does--they are too busy being resentful.

As for punishment, whatever you do, stick with it. Make the household rules VERY clear, including the level of morals you expect, and make sure she knows precisely what will happen if she does not follow the rules. It should be a clear line in the sand, so that when she DOES get punished she knows deep down that it is her own fault, not you being unfair.

I believe the best thing for kids is clear and firm boundaries. Most problems come when people try to be their child's friend rather than their parent--and that includes your sisters yelling and screaming. You have to scream at someone who has a right to disobey you. An authority figure shouldn't have to scream. It can be hard, because people want to be every child's BFF, but kids don't need friends for parents. They need love, attention, and respect, sure, but they also need discipline. Start now constructing clear rules and make sure that you ALWAYS respond the way you said you would--if she does wrong, take away her Nintendo or whatever you said you would do and don't fall into the trap of arguing that you have the right to do so. When she does good, however, make sure you praise and reward her.

Note that I am no expert, but I am a teacher and this would be my personal advice. I hope things get better for you!

[AniaR]

I *am* an expert in child development ;) and while everyone here on the forum loves to be helpful, it sounds like you have a very specific family dynamic especially if you havent had your kids living with you for 3 years (I sure there are complicated reasons behind that). I think my point is that family dynamics are so much more than just a post on a forum. There's a whole thing here, your kids haven't lived with you for years so maybe the first thing you do when they move back in- giving an additional punishment- may cause extra issues. If your kids havent lived with you for 3 years I think getting professional support might be a good idea to help them transition back into living with you and dealing with behaviour issues from when they're in your sisters care would be something a counsellor could give you more accurate advice on. (unless I'm misunderstanding you, and you're saying they are coming to a visit).

I mean honestly, there's no behavioural studies that show writing lines will do a darn thing to change her behaviour or keep her from stealing again. This is an issue you should talk to your sister, your daughter, and her teacher with. Consequences work best when they happen as soon as possible as well.

[SeaSister]

As for writing lines, I'm not fond if that method. It doesn't teach the kid anything they don't already, and it can breed a dislike of writing that can last for years.

I'm no parent, or even a teacher, plus I'm younger than most of you so I won't try to offer any advice or stick my nose into the issue too much, but I just wanted to say that I STRONGLY agree with this statement. I was always a pretty good student - never got into fights, never got in trouble, got mainly As and the occasional B, etc. etc. However, for most of my school years I was either in a private school or was home-schooled. I never went in a public school until grade 9 and I wasn't prepared for the horrors there... a lot to do with teachers. Anyways, there was one time in my humanities class (for those not familiar with the Canadian/BC school system, it's basically social studies and English combined) that my teacher, an awful guy, was essentially bullying me in class. I honestly can't remember what it was I had done or said wrong, but it must've been really bad because he was teasing me/picking on me in front of the whole class. I felt absolutely humiliated and wanted to just sink into the floor or bury myself alive or something, but when I said something to stand up for myself (I was on the verge of tears and I muttered "shut up" under my breath) he got really mad and told me that I had to write lines for the next day. Writing lines was probably the worst experience of my life. I locked myself into my room that night and was crying as I tried to scratch down the words. The next day when I gave them to him before class he acted kind of... weird. He seemed almost guilty in a way, but he gave me a brief talk something like "I'm sorry, but in the class room it's important to teach respect, blah blah blah blah...". I didn't care. By that point I had already lost every last ounce of respect I might've had for that man. I lost a lot of respect for the public school system in general, too(due not just to him, but several other bad teachers I'd had as well).

Anyways, I understand that there are a few differences between my case and this one... one of them being that I was pretty much the OPPOSITE of a trouble-maker and so I felt that my punishment wasn't justified, but stealing is most definitely wrong and should be punished. However, the point I want to emphasize is that writing lines, at least to me, was a traumatizing experience. I really love writing, but lines just seem to breed resentment. And, of course, it didn't teach me anything - the lines were something like "I will not be disrespectful in class", but it was enough to make me lose ALL respect for that class.

Also, Seavanna, I really liked the rest of your response. I think you have some really good ideas for how to manage issues like this one. For some reason, the "keep the kid away from interaction with you until their punishment is complete" method sort of reminds me of "joining up" in the horse world, heh.

[Seatan]

I definitely agree with Raina here. There is only so much advice we can give, knowing little about the situation and nothing about the child. Counseling is the very best avenue.

[MerAnthony]

Raina no they are not coming for a visit. That was before. Coming the 8th of this month they are home to stay. Before I would only get them on weekends an some holidays. When they get home also I am going to talk with the school about getting my children in some kind of counseling. My children never acted this way before untill they were at my sisters. Before that you would never know they were in the house an they would ask for stuff an if you said no they knew it was no. Somehow my sister has changed them, an it is not for the better. At the moment my kids are used to hearing yelling an screaming all the time. I don't yell or scream at them. I speak in a low voice that way I get there attention cause they have to be quite so they can hear me speak. An if they do good I give them praise for doing a good job or a reward of some kind. But I do know when they do come home things will drastically change on both parts. As for my story as to why they were at my sisters place is a whole nother chapter on its own. But the good part is that they are coming home finally after a long time away.

[AniaR]

Yeah none of us our counsellors it sounds to me like it's a bit of a complex issue with a lot of factors so that might be the best route. Also be careful what you post about your kids online too. I appreciate you want advice but I think given your unique situation that perhaps the mermaid forum isn't the best place for it, in thinking of your kids wellbeing and safety :) Professional advice ;)

[Elle]

I never found writing out lines useful at school. "I will do my homework" and "I will not run in the halls" never actually taught me anything at the time.
I think getting to the root of the problem first would be beneficial purely so you know what is going on. I have a 6 year old and he's gotten to the point where if he doesn't get his way it's a tantrum or pulling faces at us, etc. We usually respond with sending him away (to the other end of the back yard or the stairs - we don't like the idea of sending him to his room, as that's his space and shouldn't be a punishment area) or we throw a bigger tantrum. Have you ever seen how a child reacts when you embarrass them like that?? it's hilarious!! (I'm not sure that'll work in this situation but it's still good to know). But we get down on his level, rather than talk down at him and discuss what is going on, why he's doing what he's doing and why it's hurting others.

I personally would make her give the candy back or pay it back, make her apologise to the teacher face to face. it's really easy to pretend to be sincere in a letter, unless she's a really good actress.

[Jessica]

I think writing sentences works for some kids. I had to write sentences a lot as a kid and honestly I think it accomplishes a lot more than spanking. The important thing is that it needs to be appropriate. When I give my daughter sentences to write, it isn't an entire page. I start with ten and if she keeps talking back I increase it by five. I think writing sentences works great for some kids because it gives them a chance to calm down....in contrast...spanking just causes the issue to escalate. Like I said above, it works for some kids and it works really well for mine ( and my kids still love to read and write) I do agree that it could cause some kids to hate writing, but this certainly isn't the case for every child.

Raina has has a good point...punishments/consequences work best when they happen as soon as possible. I use writing sentences as a calm down/time out type of punishment....I don't think it would be effective with my kids if I did it later.

With the that being said, we really can only offer generic advice since we don't really know the situation. Contacting the teacher or seeking help from a counselor seems to be the best bet to help the situation.

[Mermaid Momo]

I wish I could help, but whenever we (my siblings and I) acted up, my parent's pulled out the switch or the belt. That solved all problems immediately and you certainly didn't want to do it again. (because the fear of the belt was always looming over everything you did) but I know now a days people like to screech child abuse at any punishment involving a belt or spanking or anything besides a time out lol ( am I and my friends the only people to notice this too?) If she doesn't care about you taking her stuff, make her sit in her room 24/7 staring at a wall. That's what happened when my sister started to get out of control and cuss out teachers and steal. After a meeting with a belt they took everything from her and she sat there all day everyday. We weren't allowed to talk to her and she couldn't talk to us. She also ate in the bedroom room separate from everyone else Since we ate in the basement or front room. We also had this room we called the punishment room. It was my brother's room originally and it was painted really nicely scooby doo themed but he was scared to sleep alone in it because it was next to the basement and far from all the other bedrooms. and you had to deal with the dog breaking in and jumping all over you until he settled down. And when serious offenses were made, like stealing $20+ or jumping someone or *gasp* yelling and cussing at someone older than you like a parent or grandparent, you had to sleep there. ) So yeah, each family has a different way of punishment.

[Anahita]

My mother used the "Scarlet Letter" method on my sister when my sister was caught stealing.

She made my sister wear a sign that basically translated to "I am a thief" in public for a full week after she got caught stealing and told the teachers she wasn't allowed to remove the sign in class, and if her classmates asked her, she was to tell the truth (She stole some of my mother's bride-price jewelry, traded some of it with her friends, and then took the leftovers to the equivalent of a pawn shop). It definitely stopped her from stealing again, but I don't think she really learned why it was wrong.

Alternatively, because when I was a kid, I had that sort of DGAF attitude to having things taken away, my mother pretty much employed corporal punishment on me (sometimes a lashing, sometimes she'd cut off my hair), as it was the only thing that made a dent on me... that and taking away sweet foods. That was the ONE thing that, when taken away from me, I was pissed about enough to do something to fix it. Granted, I didn't steal, I was just defiant in general.

Not really sure how any of those things would work, or how they'd pan out in an American setting, especially since western parents are so ... I dunno, soft on their kids.

[MerAnthony]

I know when I was a kid that if I had messed up in any shape or form we would have our heads handed to us. But as in todays society it has gone major soft handed. The even mear thought of that would land parents in jail for child abuse, plus social services here in the U.S. like to make moutains out of mole hills especially here in NY state, they have taken things to the extreme in that case. I have a week an try to figure out on how to make things work with my children. I am not sure on yet how to deal with things like this because it has been a long while sence they have been here for any real length of time. I thank you all for your input an I hold you all in the highest reguard. I will also take things into accord an with out being heavy handed. I believe in you all an let nobody tell you any different. <3

[SeaGlass Siren]

I agree with Anahita. Too soft.

I got told to stand crossing my arms and face the wall for 30 minutes if I did something wrong. On top I'd get hit with a chopstick on the hand. If we did something wrong we were disciplined for it. Granted there are some who take discipline too far like giving thir kids black eyes and bruises... We're older now and now we know why what we did was wrong. But I guess western society sees that as abuse somehow :|

[Anahita]

Yeah, the society seems unable to draw the line between discipline and abuse.

[Coradion]

My Mom was a fan of creative punishments and is also a teacher. I earned a lot of good punishments growing up.

Things my Mom would punish my little sister with might be like taking all of her shirts and tops and locking them in a closet and leaving her with the same shirt to wear every day. I like the previously mentioned idea of it saying "I'm a thief" on it. If she wanted them back she'd need to do a presentation on why stealing is wrong and what the implications of it are. For every good point she made she could earn back one piece of clothing.

If she still acts like she doesn't care you could give her a nine year old equivalent of what a shoplifting sentence might be. Sign her up to volunteer at some kind of community based program. Even if it's something like helping out in a community garden or working on projects in the teacher's classroom just drop her off every day until she's "served her time".

[Anahita]

Things my Mom would punish my little sister with might be like taking all of her shirts and tops and locking them in a closet and leaving her with the same shirt to wear every day.

Lol, my mom did that to me. When it didn't work, that was when she finally realized how absolutely stubborn and shameless I was. Same manteau, same rusari, same shirt, same pants....At one point she forced me to only wear the headscarf the school provided.... Then she forced me into a chador to see if THAT made me care... Nope. :no-no: Some kids need spankings and hair cuttings.... I was definitely one of them.

[Mermaid Kelda]

I seem to be in the minority here in that I don't agree with physical punishment. I'm not going to say it ruins children, because judging by all the well-adjusted mers on here who say they were physically punished, clearly it doesn't. But I certainly won't be implementing fear of harm as a part of disciplining my own children. I was a rotten kid, but my parents were always kind yet stern, and sat me down to explain things in ways I would understand, as well as using the sorts of creative punishments Coradion mentioned. My mother hit me once, and she said the look I gave her was so full of distrust and betrayal. I remember losing a lot of respect for her that day, which took a while for me to get over and see her as a "mother" again. But, that's a whole other can of worms, and not really the point of this thread. Just my two cents!

As for writing lines, I'll just chime in and say that as a kid, I loved doing them xD I'd think of creative ways to write the words, like writing them from right to left instead, or with my left hand, or doing all the vowels and then all the consonants. When a few of us had to write lines at the same time, we'd have contests to see who could write neatest, or quickest, or the most lines in the allotted time. By the end of it, the words had lost all meaning. Kids can be very creative in making punishments worthless :rolleyes:

[Seatan]

You need to be REALLY careful, guys, when suggesting that people use corporal punishment with their children, or any sort of psychological punishment like humiliation (sign wearing) or hair cutting. As a teacher I have seen thousands of kids go through my life, and the reason that the state needs to be strict is because people honestly DON'T know where to draw the line, and it's safer not to allow any physical punishment. Degradation and humiliation may work very well for making kids behave, but can leave major psychological scars. Just because it didn't bother you, don't make the assumption that it doesn't mess kids up. Sometimes the only way to get the teens in my class to behave is to tell them that they can shut their mouths and sit down or they can get out of my classroom and go hang out with their principal, but despite being TOLD by parents to "go all out" and "seriously embarrass and humiliate them in public," I refuse to do that--and not just because I could get in legal trouble, but because it makes kids bitter and resentful, not more obedient.

Childhood is a time that majorly shapes who we are. The part of your brain that deals with logic is not fully developed until your early twenties, which is why kids need clear rules rather than a parent that just trusts them--they don't yet have the CAPABILITY to choose the logical choice over what their emotions are telling them to do! MerAnthony, I honestly to suggest you seek council with someone who knows your situation. Your child's school will have a counselor if you cannot afford one yourself. "Spare the rod, spoil the child" may be true in a sense that it gets kids to stop what their doing, but it doesn't necessarily teach them wrong from right. Obedience in that case is simply a self-defense mechanism, and once you're out of their lives, that same child may very well revert to the way they were now that the physical threat is gone.

Note that I am not saying I am against all corporal punishment. I do believe in spanking a toddler in a way that makes an impression but leaves no marks--that is what my parents did when I was very young. But I would NEVER suggest ANY corporal punishment to someone without knowing all the details of the situation. Also note that I am not trying to bash the people who have been giving this advice--like I said, I am not against spankings. However, as an educator, I know the risks (both toward the child's psychological well being and your own standing in the law) of punishing a child in this way--OR of using humiliation as a punishment, something that the law DOES consider child abuse. My best friend and mother were both psychologically abused by their parents and they are still suffering the effects, much more than my father, who was physically abused, does.

Also note that all teachers and counselors are required BY LAW to report ANY suspicion of abuse to legal authorities or they will be held liable, and if you start down that path, you may get reported even if you are doing something you would never consider abuse. You might be surprised what the state considers abuse. If I were you, I wouldn't take any internet advice on this topic at all. Be safe and meet with the teacher or counselor, then go see a professional--the school counselor can likely recommend someone who you can afford or who does pro bono work.