Industrial strength silicone glue

[Mermaid Oshun]

HELP! Iona answered Firemaiden about using GE Silicone as a glue between the flukes to attach to the monofin. Is this the silicone caulking that is used for glue Iona or anyone else? I am in need of a good industrial strength silicone glue. I know smoothon has one but I dont think that little tube would even make a dent in the huge surface area I'm working on. Any advice?

[PearlieMae]

http://www.thistothat.com/cgi-bin/glue.cgi?lang=en&this=Rubber&that=Plastic

Hope it helps!

[Mermaid Oshun]

Thanks Pearlie. I just had a wonderful phone conversation with the tail maker from Splash and other productions... Thom Shouse! He gave me all the help I needed ! Thank you again Thom!
He shared several tips and tricks but more to the point he said that clear silicone calking and aquarium silicone are a solution for this for this problem with dragonskin silicone tails.

[PearlieMae]

Good to know!

(He's a sweetie, isn't he?)

[Jessica]

Awesome info! I didn't know you could use aquarium silicone with platinum cure! Thanks so much for sharing golden pearl! ;)

[Mermaid Oshun]

youre welcome Jessica. He said that aquarium silicone is stickier than the silicone calking. The calking is good to build up around bracers and smooth/fade edges/corners but the aquarium silicone will hold it all together in the middle. Still use platinum silicone around the outer perimeter to glue the flukes together. He said however, this will not stick so well on the plastic monofins. Very good for fiberglass monofins

[Jessica]

So I wonder if the dragonskin will just stick/cling to the aquarium silicone or will it actually bond? I'm still playing with the idea of drilling small holes in the wave so the dragonskin will bond to itself.

Firemaid's idea to glue lace to the monofin might work....I haven't tried it, but it makes sense because it would give the dragonskin something to bond around.

Let us know how the aquarium/clear silicone works! :)

[Mermaid Oshun]

you know that Smooth on sells a silicone GLUE. I think glues adhere unlike materials. I do not think they bond them. I know for a fact that fabric and silicone make a good union. So YES gluing fabric around a monofin leaving some fabric around the edges to smooth the corners... then coat with platinum cure would work also (maybe for plastic monofins) I would avoid drilling too many holes because it would weaken the monofin. Thom also said to NOT cut off the bracers as Firemaiden wanted to do because it can result in the monofin snapping.

[Jessica]

I didn't know smooth on sold a glue. I will have to look into that. I'm am a bit concerned about drilling holes in a monofin...if I did do it I would only drill maybe 4 holes. Yes, the bracers are important...but so annoying! I do take sandpaper and sand the ridge on the outside edge down at the very end (like 1/2" from the end) just enough so it curves down a little bit. (For a finis wave) This is a minimal adjustment (and not enough to damage anything) that helps hide the edge of the very end of the ridge. I think a plastic monofin might become useless without the bracers.

[Mermaid Oshun]

I dont see myself ever drilling into a monofin. Preserving the structural integrity is paramount. Best thing would be to find a good glue to adhere the strong fabric (canvas/burlap) to the monofin if you're dealing w/ plastic monofins imo.

[Jessica]

I dont see myself ever drilling into a monofin. Preserving the structural integrity is paramount. Best thing would be to find a good glue to adhere the strong fabric (canvas/burlap) to the monofin if you're dealing w/ plastic monofins imo.

^ very true. I bet a few strips of canvas glued in between the ridges would work well. I don't think I would cover the entire fin so water could pass through easily. I like the idea of using canvas/burlap better than lace...maybe even fiberglass cloth. It's really sturdy stuff and wouldn't be damaged by chlorine or repeated exposure to water. Thanks golden pearl! :) it's just awesome having people to bounce ideas off!

[Mermaid Oshun]

maybe 2 part epoxy can conjoin canvas/fiberglass fabric and plastic under platinum cure?

[Jessica]

maybe 2 part epoxy can conjoin canvas and plastic?

I think I might try e600. It's waterproof, durable and I use it on my shell tops. I'm going to do a small test to make sure it doesn't inhibit the cure of the silicone. Since it glues shells really well, I'm hoping it will work well for plastic.

[Mermaid Oshun]

good luck! please wish me the same :D

[Jessica]

Of course! ;) always! I love that so many of us are willing to share information!

[Mizuko]

Thanks for all the info, guys! :D I've been tossing up what to do with sealing my monofin in the fluke. I got some of Smooth-On's silicone glue, which I was just considering putting on the monofin in little strips before adding the rest of the silicone and sealing the flukes together; which (in theory) would mean there would still be drainage holes. But I dont know how strong the glue is- I also heard the glue doesn't work too well on plastic, but on carbon fibre/fibreglass monofins I'd not sure! XD
I wanted to try the fabric idea- how flexible is E600? If it doesn't take too much of the movement away from the monofin, I would consider using it to stick some power mesh onto my monofin!

[PearlieMae]

I tried epoxy and bits of styrene to fix my Rapid when it cracked at the balls of my feet...be sure to score/scratch the fin so that the epoxy has something to grip, otherwise it will pop right off! Use LOTS, too.

[Mermaid Oshun]

You should let the built up tin silicone air dry completely around the bracers BEFORE you seal it in the platinum silicone fluke faces. Calking needs air to dry.

[Mermaid Oshun]

I clearly recognize that there is a dichotomy here between the basic common knowledge that tin silicone impedes the curing of platinum silicone on one hand and the trusted word of grandaddy of tail makers Thom Shouse telling me to use aquarium silicone as a glue. I trust in his experience that he is neither being viciously facetious nor actually incompetent.

[LaNyah]

I think the difference here is that you use the glue AFTER the silicone has fully cured.

I am new to this myself, but generally I would think that after the chemical process has fully completed, there is no undoing it.

[Mermaid Oshun]

yes but the silicone paint that goes on afterward will be inhibited as well as the seams to adhere the segments together

[LaNyah]

Even so, I wonder how it can be an issue as we glue the opposite side, right? Not the painted side or edges. that may be why he said to use plat silicone on the outside edges, so the tin would never be in contact with the painted surface.

[Jessica]

Even so, I wonder how it can be an issue as we glue the opposite side, right? Not the painted side or edges. that may be why he said to use plat silicone on the outside edges, so the tin would never be in contact with the painted surface.


The issue is that it's in the same area.....it doesn't even have to touch the silicone to inhibit the cure!

Rubber can can work the same way, and my first tail had a finis foil monofin that inhibited the cure on the top of the tail...when I went to paint the fluke, it stopped the silicone from curing.

I think it would be risky to try to use tin cure near platinum cure. After my experience with my first tail, I'm a bit cautious about trying anything new though! If someone was to try this, I would recommend keeping the monofin in a different room until the last moment....and to use partially cured silicone to seal the edges of the fluke quickly after inserting the monofin. I would probably apply heat to speed up the reaction/cure time as well. I think the major problem with this is that you could never repaint the tail or possibly even repair it because the tin cure would cause cure inhibition.

[Mermaid Oshun]

Why would Thom Shouse tell me to do such a thing? And Iona told Firemaiden to do the same thing! Misinformation???

[Jessica]

Why would Thom Shouse tell me to do such a thing?

I don't doubt that this method worked for him....I just can't help but think of all the potential problems it could cause for people like us who are still learning. I think it would probably be ok if the fluke was completely painted before assembling the tail, and the edges were sealed really quickly after coming in contact with the tin cure silicone.

Then there is the fact that sometimes you just get lucky :) jazz used the same monofin I did and didn't have any issues...whereas my monofin caused a disaster in my first tail! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure thom tints his tails and I dont think he paints on top of the silicone. If you're not painting on top, then this isn't too much of an issue.....it might just prevent you from repainting in the future.

[Mermaid Oshun]

I agree it is common knowledge that tin cure inhibits platinum cure. Hearing someone who has been making tails for over 30 years tell you to use it you would want to believe them. Maybe he just wanted a good belly laugh?:shark:

[Jessica]

I agree it is common knowledge that tin cure inhibits platinum cure. Hearing someone who has been making tails for over 30 years tell you to use it you would want to believe them. Maybe he just wanted a good belly laugh?:shark:

i would have believed him too! I think it can work, but only in certain circumstances and with a good bit of skill and experience! I just don't think it's worth the risk for me to try it...so many things can easily go wrong with silicone and I already ran into my fair share of problems with my first tail!

[Sirenade]

Thom uses urethane and urethane based paints to paint the outside of the swimmable tails (with monofins inside). Drill some holes in the monofin so the upper and lower sides of the fluke can stay together (we did this with my tail). Keep all parts separate and let your tail pieces fully cure before putting them together. :)

[Mermaid Oshun]

I just called him. He said he did not know they were incompatible. And yes, he did say he does not make silicone tails. He makes polyurethane tails but thought it might work for silicone too. More than half a grand of silicone can be destroyed based on the authoritative words of others. To answer this thread I will just purchase silpoxy from smoothon from now on $30 plus $12 shipping for enough to cover one corner of a big fluke . You would need at least 4 tubes or $160 +of incidental glue fee added to your expenses. Thom did say one thing with which I concur whole heartedly... there is zero profit in making tails.

[LaNyah]

So glad you found the answer!

[Mermaid Oshun]

ty Paisley777 (http://mernetwork.com/index/member.php?2352-Paisley777) :D

[AniaR]

I've used the clear silicones that dragonskin lists on their website are compatible for fixing minor inside wear on my seams (come apart lightly from so many times rolling it down) and it works perfectly fine. It's also a great solution to dealing with/preventing mold. I have emailed/called the smooth on people before about what products I can use with theirs and they always answer and are great :)

[Jessica]

I just talked to smooth on they said the sil-poxy adhesive will work with plastic. It doesn't bond to the plastic like it will the silicone, but the guy said that you would really have to pull to get it off the plastic. I ordered some and will test it with a finis wave....I'll let you know how it works! :)

golden pearl,
I don't think that it would be necessary to cover the entire monofin in glue.... water needs a way out so it can reach the drainage channels. I think it would probably work just fine to have rows/lines of glue holding the fluke to the monofin. This would save a good bit of $ too! I'm just going to do a few lines in between the bracers on the wave...I'll let you know how it works! :)

[Mizuko]

Thanks Jessica! :D
I was thinking that too- doing rows/lines of the glue to allow water to still escape the fluke.

[Mermaid Julz]

useful info to use for my next tail....