A silicone tail for Salina

[Aziara]

So, I've been wanting to make a silicone tail forever.. I finally just decided to jump in and buy materials as I can afford them. As such, this might turn out to be very long in the making. At this point, I'm working on the clay molds for scales and pelvic/pectoral fins. I don't want to start my fluke mold until I have my monofin (I'm saving up for a leaderfin), to make sure it will fit. I need to go pick up some fiberglass resin to make my molds (correct me if I'm wrong, but I have read that plasticina clay is tough enough not to melt). http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o554/Aziara86/Mobile%20Uploads/photo.jpg (http://s1147.photobucket.com/user/Aziara86/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo.jpg.html)

[Jessica]

The fins look great! How big are the scales?

[Aziara]

Thanks, Jessica. You've been a big inspiration to me. I realize now that picture has no sense of 'scale' (sorry, bad pun). Here's some pictures with my hand in the shot to give better ideas of size. http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o554/Aziara86/Mobile%20Uploads/photo-2.jpg (http://s1147.photobucket.com/user/Aziara86/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo-2.jpg.html) http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o554/Aziara86/Mobile%20Uploads/photo-1.jpg (http://s1147.photobucket.com/user/Aziara86/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo-1.jpg.html)

[PearlieMae]

Nice! I like how so many tailmakers are sculpting their scales!

[Rogue Siren]

That's awesome!

And you and I are in the same boat. :) Buying materials and working on the tail as we can afford to. Haha.

[Aziara]

Yeah, I figure if I waited until I could afford everything at once, I'd never make it. Case in point: I just lost my babysitting job over the holidays because they have enough family staying at their home to watch the kid. So I have more time to work on my tail, but less money to go towards it :gah:. Oh well. Thankfully using fiberglass for molds should be much cheaper than shell shock.

[Rogue Siren]

Always one or the other. I understand that and I hate it! Either working all the time and have the money, or have plenty of free time but no money. :P

[Trident True]

Plaster of Paris is even cheaper :D anything that is a liquid will mold around the shape very easily. However most people choose paris as it does the job but doesnt cost a fortune. I love the scales and the fins they look awesome.

[Rogue Siren]

You pretty much just answered a question I was going to ask. Thanks. XD

I don't want to hijack the thread or anything, but will plaster of paris get details well?

[emma11]

Incredibly well! It's what I use in my prosthetics design. It will even get fingerprints if you mix it correctly. Just make sure it's thin.

;)


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[Aziara]

Huh... Does plaster of Paris stop working after a certain age? I have a carton of it that's several years old, and every mold I've tried to make with it is very brittle and shatters into pieces. It's even more brittle if I mix it thinner. It would be cool if I could make my molds from something I already have-- but how would I make it strong enough?

[emma11]

For plaster of Paris to not be brittle you need to make it 2 or more inches thick and even then it's easy to snap. Get burlap fibers and dip that in the plaster and put into the mold. That makes it so that the plaster can shift a little without snapping so easily.

Just be sure before the burlap that there's enough plaster already on the mold so that the burlap doesn't touch the clay or it will leave a.... Burlapy texture haha

I'd also test your burlap with plaster before hand and make sure it sinks through. Some burlap is thick and woven extremely tight so the plaster can't seep into it. Which essentially just makes a barrier and will ruin your mold.

:). Also as far as I know plaster stays good forever. As long as it doesn't get wet!


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[Aziara]

Hmm... Maybe I'll do some more tests with plaster of paris. Thing is, I'd like my molds to be tough and reusable, and I'm not sure how many times I could get a good casting out of plaster before the details start wearing off. As much work as I'm putting into hand-making scales, I definitely want my mold to last a long time! :D

[PearlieMae]

If you want reusable, I would go with fiberglass or resin. I'm using resin for mine...more $ than plaster, of course, but they are going to last me for years!

Of course, if you want to stay in the plaster family, there's UltraCal http://www.plaster.com/Ultracal.html

[emma11]

Haha I've done 6 pulls off mine and it's starting to lose a bit of detail. But I wasn't planning on using them over and over really, I did two for me and the rest was used in an art piece.

Good luck!


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[jazz2453]

Plaster molds lose detail over time as more castings are pulled from the mold. If you want a long-lasting mold, I would go with fiberglass like Pearliemae said.

[Aziara]

Yeah, I'm thinking that fiberglass will be the way to go. I'm also a klutz, so I'd be perpetually petrified of shattering a plaster mold, ha ha.

[PearlieMae]

I used this: http://www.micromark.com/cr-300-quick-cure-casting-resin-32-fl-oz,7776.html

After a thin layer to catch the detail, I laid in a piece of quilt batting and more resin - with a trick to make it foam up into the batting - and it's rock solid. Cured in a couple of hours and NO FUMES.

[Aziara]

I'm all for no fumes! :thumbs-up: if I remember correctly from your thread, you spritzed the resin with water to make it foam up? And did you allow the first 'detail layer' to harden first?

[PearlieMae]

Yes I did! I poured the resin in small batches, but you could mix bigger batches if you want. You night want to do a small test of the water trick, to see how much it will foam. Some small batches, I mixed water in the resin, and some I sprayed water first, then some after. I can't tell you what was the best method because I was impatient to get it done!

[LaNyah]

I missed the foaming trick. What is the purpose?

Also, I assume you used poly batting, not cotton?

I have standard bondo brand resin that seems to work fine in tests. I think I need more fiber though, was going to get fiberglass sheets.

[PearlieMae]

The foaming trick was so I didn't use a hundred dollars' worth of resin, it stabilizes the mold and keeps it from weighing a ton. And I was running out of resin! I did use polyester batting, not cotton. The plus to using the resin is there's no fumes or odor, and it is solid within an hour or so.

[Aziara]

About how many 32oz orders of the resin did you buy, Pearlie? And was it enough/too much/too little? I'm trying to figure out if two of the 32oz will be enough for everything...

[PearlieMae]

That's hard to say, because I had lots of partial bottles from previous projects...and I made some side fin molds and they were pretty thick and I didn't foam them. Two should be enough for a fluke and fins, but I haven't done a scale sheet yet.

I wish I could be of more help with this.

[Aziara]

I just thought of something. My clay fins are constructed by making a thin base layer of clay, rolling out the veins, then lying them on top. So the veins are round tubes... Am I going to have undercut problems with my molding process? If so, how would I go about fixing it without changing how to looks too much?http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o554/Aziara86/Mobile%20Uploads/photo-3.jpg (http://s1147.photobucket.com/user/Aziara86/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo-3.jpg.html)

[LaNyah]

What I did for this was place the 'tubes' and then used a sculpting tool and a small... and I mean SMALL... tiny little bit of clay and 'sealed' the tube around the base. Not sure if that makes sense.

Here is a pic with the tool. I'm not finished yet, but I think you can see what I mean.
16377

[Aziara]

Yep, I can see what you're saying. Thanks, Paisley.

[PearlieMae]

That makes it look more organic and part of the fluke rather than an addition in top! Good work! Take your time and smooth as you go along.

[Mermaid Dottie]

I just want you to know that I'm following this thread very closely at the moment. :D

[Aziara]

Phew! I've been sick these past few days, so I haven't been able to get much done. Feeling much better now, though I really feel a new respect for Ariel. No voice sucks! It's coming back now, but I literally couldn't talk for two days. Hand gestures can only convey so much...lol. Anyway, as for my tail, I got the undercuts on my fins taken care of, and about 1/4 of my scale sheet laid down. The scale sheet is going to take some time. I'm trying to hold myself to do at LEAST one row of scales each day, preferably more. Made myself a water-themed playlist on youtube so I don't go insane while I work. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLb0oYpLpsN1UVN1w2hP5wk3kpHftkAo-W I'm such a nerd... all the songs are remixes of game music :doh::shame:

[Mermaid Dottie]

Hey, Game music is some of the best! No shame there!

[Aziara]

So, I got my scale sheet half done, then realized my scale thickness was all over the place. Some of them were so thick, they looked more like roof tiles than scales. So I bought one of those pasta maker-type clay rollers, so now all my scales will be the same thickness. It also goes much faster than patting it flat with my hands (also less hand strain, yay!). Hopefully I get this done soon. I've also seen in another thread that Jinx suggested using Cement All for a mold material. It's the stuff you would use to fix the cracks in a cement slab. It's a lot heavier than resin, but also much, much cheaper. I'll have to do some small tests with it. A quick question--Is there any problem with using cardboard for a mold box? It's what I'm currently using to lay my scales on, but I'm worried whether it will work or not. I'm not so much worried about the sidewalls collapsing (I plan on surrounding the box sides with bricks to hold them up), but more about whether I'll have trouble with getting the cardboard not to stick to my mold material, since cardboard is porous. Has anyone else used a cardboard mold box? How did it work out for you?

[Aziara]

It looks like the Cement All works! I tested it out on a small patch of scales, and it turned out really well. There's a few places with a funny texture, I think it's from the pam spray I used as a release agent... Looks like the clay itself doesn't need a release agent, and the cardboard came off without a fuss with the oil, so it's all good. Only thing I'm worried about is the weight. The 7" x 7" test I did weighs 2.5 lbs. I ran the numbers and it looks like the full scale mold will weigh something like 62 lbs! Maybe even more if I make it thicker than an inch, which is how thick my test is. Hefting it will certainly be a two person job, lol. http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o554/Aziara86/Scalemold.jpg (http://s1147.photobucket.com/user/Aziara86/media/Scalemold.jpg.html)

[BayouMermaid]

That sounds heavy! It looks good though.

[Aziara]

Wow, can't believe how long it's been since I abandoned this project... Sorry in advance for ginormous pictures, I can't seem to resize them in photobucket.
As many of you know, I dropped my tailmaking plans when I bought an old fishbutt off of ebay. Which has turned out to be neoprin-lined, several inches too small, and did not have a monofin. I've been tinkering with it, but I've realized that with it being neoprin, I'm just going to have to keep on repairing it as it continues to stretch and tear the outer layer of silicone. So here I go again with tailmaking plans. I seriously need to stop worrying and planning and worrying some more and JUST DO IT!!
I'm thinking of abandoning my sculpted scales, and I've ordered an oval hole punch. The comet goldfish in my tank is now big enough for me to study her scale pattern closely, and I think that oval scales with a 'gap' between each one is the most realistic pattern. Does anyone know if Elmer's glue will work for filling up the undercuts this pattern will inevitably make?
27072
Looks like the lexan monofin I made for the crappy ebay tail will fit perfectly into the planned shape for my fluke, with some loose floppy edges (yay!)
http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o554/Aziara86/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-01/20150129_085536.jpg (http://s1147.photobucket.com/user/Aziara86/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-01/20150129_085536.jpg.html)
I've also resculpted the little fins. The splitting veins just wasn't working out right.
http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o554/Aziara86/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-01/20150129_085310.jpg (http://s1147.photobucket.com/user/Aziara86/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-01/20150129_085310.jpg.html)

So now to order some of that no fume resin Pearliemae was telling me about...
I'm not really sure how much work I can put into this right now--I'm 8 months preggers and I don't want to make the tail body until I'm back to a normal size. Hopefully I can get at least the molds (and maybe the fluke and side fins) done now, then cast the scale sheets when I'm back in shape in a few months.

[Aziara]

So the hole punch is being annoying... I'm so tired of trying to file it down and fit the craft foam in. I could probably get it eventually, but I think I'm gonna put it aside for now. I DID use it to punch out a bit of a 3" x 5" recipe card to use as a template to cut out clay scales. After looking at this image and seeing how unique each scale is--
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/real-roach-fish-scales-background-close-up-rutilus-rutilus-31280380.jpg
I'm not too worried about each scale being a little different. In fact, I'm trying to make each one unique. I'm considering the individual scale method like PearlieMae has perfected, as I wouldn't have to worry about undercuts in a mold and I would use much less molding material (Not to mention the extreme realism!) I'm also a little worried about a batch of silicone not curing, and this way each batch would be much smaller.
http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o554/Aziara86/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/20150214_145220.jpg (http://s1147.photobucket.com/user/Aziara86/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-02/20150214_145220.jpg.html)
That little dent in the lower right scale? I'm thinking of trying to replicate the lateral line along the sides of the tail. Probably not something most people would notice, but I think it would be a really cool detail to throw in.