Oceanika Merfin in silicone

[LaNyah]

Hello all

Has anyone used a merfin with a silicone tail?

Did you glue it together? (with what?)
Drill holes?

...any other techniques?

[Fifi Tigg]

There is an Oceanika merfin in Emily's tail coming from Finfolk :)

[LaNyah]

I know Merbella also has done it, but I don't think either are willing to share details/techniques.

Love to be wrong though! :)

[Jessica]

I'm pretty sure Darcy is using a mer fin in her silicone tail.

I am curious though....is it made completely of rubber? I used a finis foil(100% rubber) in my first tail and it caused cure inhibition when I was painting the silicone that was near the monofin. I never seen a merfin in person so I really don't know if it's similar to the foil, but if it's rubber I'd be careful using it with silicone.....and I would paint the fluke completely before putting the monofin in the fluke just to be sure to avoid any cure inhibition issues :)

[Elle]

yeah the merfin is 100% recycled rubber.....I was wondering the same thing.
what would you paint it with Jessica? just regular acrylic paint?

[Merman Arion]

We don't see much merbella tails with merfin flukes but when she does them, they are amazingly done in my opinion.

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[LaNyah]

Jessica - Your bad experience is what makes me ask. I know it can be done, but not sure if they used any special precautions or whatnot.

Arion - Aren't they beautiful?! The shape lends itself well to more fanciful color designs

[Jessica]

Paisley,

it can be done! After I cut the foil monofin out of my tail, I actually fixed the entire tail, sealed the fluke up and painted it without the monofin inside. The foil is very flexible, so I rolled it up, tied it tightly with string, shoved it down the body of the tail back into the fluke. Then I just cut the string and adjusted the monofin. This worked pretty well under the circumstances, but I'm sure there must be a better way :)

i love the merfin....I think you could also easily make a tail using the merfin if you did a neoprene lined tail....then there would be a barrier and a pretty low chance of cure inhibition. Since I've never even seen a merfin in person, this is just speculation and it could be completely fine with silicone. I would still take precautions though just in case since it's rubber....I would leave it in a different room until I was completely finished painting the tail and ready to assemble the entire tail

elle,

are you asking about painting the monofin? Or painting the silicone? With silicone you just mix powdered pigment in a little silicone and paint with that. I don't know what kind of paint will stick to rubber....

[Elle]

the monofin.....I own a merfin and I'm worried that because it's rubber when I come to attach a silicone fluke to it...it isn't going to attach because it wont cure.

[LaNyah]

I think what I will do is when I'm pouring my silicone scale sheet, I'll pour a little ON the monofin and see what happens. Can't get more direct than that!
Keeping this little experiment separate from the main sheet, of course.

[Mermaid Oshun]

A clear coat of shellac is recommended to use on top of fiberglass if it inhibits silicone. (I find that fiberglass does not inhibit if you let it cure for 2 weeks before using it and wipe it down with alcohol before using it btw.) But a coat of shellac on rubber cleaned with alcohol might be a helpful for this issue.

[Elle]

A clear coat of shellac is recommended to use on top of fiberglass if it inhibits silicone. (I find that fiberglass does not inhibit if you let it cure for 2 weeks before using it and wipe it down with alcohol before using it btw.) But a coat of shellac on rubber cleaned with alcohol might be a helpful for this issue.


But would it be the same with rubber? a rubber monofin is different to a fibreglass one

[Mermaid Oshun]

No you misunderstand. I wasnt speaking about fiberglass monofins. I was actually referring to fiberglass molds when casting silicone. And I was indicating that a barrier of shellac has been proven to serve to prohibit inhibition in general. You would have to try it to see if it will work on rubber but, in general, it has shown capacity to serve as a physical barrier to prevent silicone inhibition under certain circumstances.

[LaNyah]

OK all. The results of test 1.

I made a small batch of silicone just for this test.
-I poured some on the fin directly.
-I poured some onto the scale mold right next to the fin.
-I poured some ~4ft away in a scale mold.

Wait ~18 hrs.

Both the scale patches cured fine.

The batch on the fin - almost all cured. The top half (exposed to air) cured up like normal. Only the bit right on the fin wouldn't cure.

Seems that while it sure does inhibit the silicone directly, it doesn't have a long range of effect as it were.

Test 2 will be using the other 2 test swatches, 'sandwich' the fin between them and then silicone glue them together (as one would to envelope the monofin) and see it there is any trouble.

I will try the shellac the fin idea to see if that works for direct application.

[Mermaid Oshun]

you should shellac the whole fin so there are no exposed adjacent areas. Let it dry completely then give a light wipe with alcohol. If the coat is too thin it still may not work.
Another option is a thin coat of urethane from smooth on. It will stick to both (not actually bond) and does not inhibit silicone. best wishes

[Jessica]

OK all. The results of test 1.

I made a small batch of silicone just for this test.
-I poured some on the fin directly.
-I poured some onto the scale mold right next to the fin.
-I poured some ~4ft away in a scale mold.

Wait ~18 hrs.

Both the scale patches cured fine.

The batch on the fin - almost all cured. The top half (exposed to air) cured up like normal. Only the bit right on the fin wouldn't cure.

Seems that while it sure does inhibit the silicone directly, it doesn't have a long range of effect as it were.

Test 2 will be using the other 2 test swatches, 'sandwich' the fin between them and then silicone glue them together (as one would to envelope the monofin) and see it there is any trouble.

I will try the shellac the fin idea to see if that works for direct application.

i did a similar test with my rubber monofin with my first tail. The silicone poured directly on the fin cured at the surface, but the back was tacky and only partially cured.

from my experience I think the length of time silicone is near rubber will determine if you can paint your silicone or not. If I were you I would make the entire tail and paint it before assembling the fluke and fluke to body. Worst case scenario....you can use silpoxy to bond your fluke halves together, but this probably won't be necessary. I was able to assemble my fluke without issue....I think this is because I assembled the fluke immediately after sandwiching the monofin inside. I don't remember exactly, but it was at least two weeks after that when I attempted to paint the fluke and ran into all those issues!

Will shellac stuck to rubber? I haven't tried that before. I haven't tried urethane either.....I'm interested to see how it works!

[PearlieMae]

Shellac may lift from rubber and alcohol dissolves shellac.

[LaNyah]

My thinking is the shellac is not meant to last long and not after submerged in the water. I only figured it would create a barrier to separate the rubber from the silicone in order to allow curing for seaming and paint. Over time or after swimming it would be useless/gone but by then the purpose will have been served.

At this point, I plan to do as much paint and finishing to the silicone as possible before it gets attached and use the shellac method before attaching.

[Elle]

I think I'm more confused than ever on this subject. I haven't made a mold for my fluke yet, but the idea of having a fluke that won't stick to my monofin is scaring me off

[LaNyah]

Sorry for the confusion and angst. :)

Remember, the cured silicone fluke won't stick to any monofin. That's one of the tricky parts I guess - getting the silicone to stick to anything. "Nothing sticks to silicone but silicone." That's why we need the lace trick, or sil-poxy, or some other unknown trick.

This discussion is about taking just a little extra precaution with this kind of rubber monofin and making sure the fluke is fully cured first.

The big takeaways here are: can't pour the silicone directly on the merfin & make sure the fluke is all finished prior to using normal attachment methods.

Personally, I'm not too worried about it.

[Elle]

so you put lace on the monofin and then get the silicone fluke to glue to that?

[Jessica]

so you put lace on the monofin and then get the silicone fluke to glue to that?

This can work for fiberglass or plastic monofins, but it might not work for rubber. The silicone will get around and into the fibers in the lace and bond to itself.

if you have drainage slits, it's not entirely necessary to glue the monofin to the fluke. If you can, it's a good idea, but the drainage slits will typically stop the fluke from filling with water if they are placed correctly. My first two tails only have drainage slits and neither fill with water while swimming. I am trying silpoxy for the next tail though :)

silpoxy will work for plastic (I haven't tested this yet, but smooth on said it would) and fiberglass monofins. Personally, I don't think using lace is an ideal method. If the lace wasn't 100% covered with silicone, it could easily become a place for mold to grow if it wasn't dried thoroughly.

[Elle]

well because the merfin has the wonderful big ridges on either side of the fin, that's where I was going to run the drainage (with some drinking straws that I'd pull out afterwards). I just didn't want to have to worry about ballooning because the fluke isn't actually attached to the fin.

[Jessica]

If you're using thin drinking straws, I would personally have at least six drainage holes. You want narrow slits, but you also want to have enough to allow water to flow through. I like to use strips of a plastic folder I cut up about 1/2" wide and they worked well and pulled out easily too. If you have enough drainage, ballooning shouldn't be an issue

[Elle]

so it won't matter that the fluke isn't attached to the monofin if there is enough drainage? just have the fluke attached around the edges and the bottom around the drainage slits?

[LaNyah]

Great information Jessica!

[Jessica]

so it won't matter that the fluke isn't attached to the monofin if there is enough drainage? just have the fluke attached around the edges and the bottom around the drainage slits?

Yes, enough drainage slits will prevent the fluke from filling with water and you can just seal all the way around. This isn't ideal....but with a rubber monofin your options are limited! You may want to test silpoxy and see if you can get it to bond to the rubber.....I honestly don't know if it will or not. If it does, then you could use silpoxy to glue the fluke to the monofin....I just don't know if it would create a good lasting bond. It's expensive so maybe call smooth on and ask? I'll try to remember to ask next time I order supplies :)

I love the oceanika.....I would love to have one! I just wish shipping wasn't so awful from Australia!

[Elle]

can't call smooth on.....the cost would be ridiculous. I'm not going to be using dragonskin either, I'll be using a Australian brand platinum cure silicone. Simply because it's cost around $500 for the one lot of silicone - if I go with smooth on.
So I'll ask at my local prop making store and go from there I guess

[PearlieMae]

You can contact them through their technical assistance link. They get back to you via email, usually within a day.

[AnnaAbyss]

@Elle - Will you be using Dalchem silicone? Because I'm unsure whether to buy Dragonskin online or go with something similar to that which is sold here in Australia.

[Elle]

I'm buying through Barnes...there is one in Brisbane. the staff there are quite good and usually have experience in prop making.
the Melbourne store is in Richmond

I can't remember the name of the silicone I'm getting

[Elle]

You can contact them through their technical assistance link. They get back to you via email, usually within a day.

There wouldn't be much point contacting them, as I'm not using their products....would there?

[Jessica]

Hi Elle,

I would contact the manufacturer of the product you're going to use so you get accurate info. :) just make sure the silicone is platinum cure and not tin cure!

[Elle]

Hi Elle,

I would contact the manufacturer of the product you're going to use so you get accurate info. :) just make sure the silicone is platinum cure and not tin cure!

Already done my research I know it's platinum....I just can't remember the name of it :)

[Elle]

Vario 15 is the name of my silicone. I bought my first tub today :)