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View Full Version : The Process of Buying a Tail AND Getting What You Pay For



Seatan
12-21-2013, 07:01 PM
It seems like the mermaid community is awash with people selling sub-par tails and refusing returns or refunds. Personally, I think this has gone on long enough and it is time to stop saying "well, it was custom and they said no returns and refunds on custom work" and start getting what we paid for.

As someone with much experience in customer service, I want to share a few facts that I feel might be helpful to people new to the mermaid community who are looking to buy tails. Also, as a teacher, I understand the kind of documentation and professional mannerisms you need to have legal ground to stand on when someone does you wrong (or accuses you of doing something wrong), which I will share in the sections about taking action against faulty or late products.



Index:
Approximate Price of Tails
Inferior Products Used by Tailmakers to Lower Production Costs
Important Lesson: Beware the Tailmaker Who Doesn't Charge For Labor
14 Questions to Ask Your Tailmaker BEFORE You Pay
Inferior Vs. The Norm: What IS a Good Tail?
Taking Action Against an Inferior Product
Taking Action Against a Late Product


Approximate Price of Tails

Most important thing to know: You should be VERY suspicious of ANYONE selling tails at or below the cost of making them and do EXTENSIVE research before purchasing.

(Note that this post is in regards to paying someone ELSE to make your tail, not making your own. There are also probably exceptions to the rules about the pricing that I list.the point is that The only time I would trust a tailmaker offering a tail at or below the cost of materials is one who is openly trying to hone their craft. Also, I am only really familiar with the costs of making fabric and silicone tails, so if anyone thinks the price ranges should be different, please let me know.)

Terms Defined
At Cost: What the tail costs to make, just supplies, not including the effort that goes into making it. Be VERY wary of tails sold for below cost of materials--they are probably not made of what is promised.
Average Price: Normal prices seen for these tails. Be wary of low-ball figures.

Prices listed are for adults and include the monofins. They are, of course, approximate, but you should be suspicious of tails that do not fit in these ranges!

Fabric Tail
At Cost: $60-$200
Average Price: $100-$300
The cheapest monofin on sale will probably cost at least $50 and then you have to add in the cost of fabric and, possibly, paint. Lower than this, it is likely the tailmaker is inexperienced. Ask to see examples of other tails they have made (a good idea for ANY tail you buy).

Neoprene Tail
At Cost: $100-$400
Average Price: $150-$600
Neoprene is a thick stretch material. You need a good sewing machine to stitch it, which may go into the cost of a tail. It is also much more expensive than swim fabric, even on sale. If the tail you are looking at is below $100, make sure that the tailmaker is using neoprene and not neoprin, a product with a similar name that will stretch but not spring back to size, making it a poor choice for tails (see list of inferior products below).

Neoprene/Costume Latex
At Cost: $200-$800
Average Price: $400-1000
As mentioned above, neoprene is not cheap, nor is it easy to sew. Good costume latex isn't cheap, either. If they are offering a very low price, make sure that they are not using latex caulking instead of costume latex (see list of inferior products below).

Neoprene/Costume Silicone
At Cost: $500-$1000
Average Price: $600-$2500
Costume/prosthetic grade silicone is expensive and takes much experience to work with effectively. If the price is much lower than this, they may be using silicone caulking or another form of silicone that is not meant for prosthetic use (see list of inferior products below).

Costume Full Silicone
At Cost: $800-$1200
Average Price: $2000-$4000
A lot of people want to know where they can find a Dragonskin tail (brand name prosthetic/costume silicone) for $700. The fact is, you can't--not unless the tailmaker is literally giving it away. Supplies for these tails are usually around $800-$900. If it is lower than that, the tailmaker is basically paying YOU to take their tail.

If you find a tail that costs less than these numbers, BEWARE. It may mean that a) the tailmaker doesn't know what he or she is doing or b) they are using inferior products. Always ask specifically what kind of materials are going into the making of your tail!





Inferior Products Used by Tailmakers to Lower Production Costs:

Neoprin: A material like neoprene, except that once it stretches, it will not spring back into place. You will have to continuously take the tail in, especially if your hips are much larger than your waist. Neoprin costs less than neoprene, and a below average cost tail may use this product.

Latex/Silicone Caulking: This includes the brand name item ALEX, as well as other types of caulking. Caulking is meant for construction work, not for tails. It will keep water out of windowsills, but it is not made for undulating motions beneath the water, nor is it meant for long term contact with human skin. Yes, this is technically a form of latex and silicone (so they are legally free to say it is latex or silicone), but it is NOT costume grade. These tails WILL eventually fall apart--and by that, I do not mean in three years. They will degrade quickly, as caulking's purpose is to create stationary waterproof seals in buildings, not to be used in costuming. This kind of caulking is sometimes used in cosplay items; however, cosplay items are not built to last day after day of wear and are meant for special occassions only, unlike a tail. This product has also not been tested for use against human skin and may cause side effects. If someone is selling a silicone or latex tail at a very low cost, be sure that they are NOT using caulking to sculpt the tail!


Bi-Fins: These are normal scuba fins, not one solid monofin, and while many people swim just fine in them, they do not propel as much as a monofin. Make sure the monofin is ACTUALLY a monofin.


"Fake" Monofins: Self crafted monofins made by tailmakers with no experience in making monofins. We have seen some made out of cardboard, even. Some tailmakers may also specialize in making monofins, but make sure they are willing to stand by the product if they made the monofin themselves.




Important Lesson: Beware the Tailmaker Who Doesn't Charge For Labor

Tails are a craft, and crafts are slow and costly to produce; therefore, if it costs next to nothing, the person is probably not putting much effort into making a good product. Tailmakers are craftsmen and artisans, not factory workers, which means no tail is ever going to be super cheap. Making tails is an art, which means an individual person spends a large amount of his or her personal time to make the tail. No factory in China or India is currently producing them. They are not a mass marketed item and, therefore, no one makes tails for twenty dollars.

Even the smallest craft, like making a simple beaded necklace, usually takes at least an hour, so if a crafter spends $8 on supplies and charges $10/hour for their services, that simple beaded necklace will cost $18 dollars. At WalMart it might cost $3--but that is because WalMart mass produces these goods with low labor costs and using materials bought at MASSIVE wholesale rates or produced at their own material factories.

Also, a note to those who do not craft: Every craft you see probably takes twice the time to make it than you assume. Even when you get really good at churning out product, it still takes time, and good craftsmen pay themselves for their work.





14 Questions to Ask Your Tailmaker BEFORE You Pay

I have seen some merfolk on here who ask these questions refer to themselves are terrible customers or bitches, and I want to make one thing VERY clear: Asking questions such as these does NOT make you a bad customer or a bitch! It makes you an aware and astute buyer. ALL tailmakers should be able to answer the questions below without being offended. If they are offended by you asking these questions, it is probably because their tails are poor quality and they do not want that to come to light! You are paying for a service, and you NEED to be on the same page as the tailmaker so that if they do not give you a good quality product, they cannot say that the product was what you agreed upon. Seriously, if a tailmaker won't answer these questions, don't let them guilt you about it, just get the heck out of dodge! They are probably trying to cheat you!


1. What materials, exactly, are going into my tail? May I please have a full list, including brand name and/or material type?


2.What do you use to piece the tail together? Can you explain to me how you can be sure this method will hold up under frequent stress underwater?


3. If I am careful with the tail and take good care of it, how long will you expect it to last?


4. How does the water drain out of the tail? Have you found this system to be efficient?


5. What kind of monofin is in the tail and what shoe sizes does it cover? Do you find it to be comfortable?


6. Will my tail look like and perform equal to the example tails you have shown me, including quality of paint/scales/fluke/etc? If not, what will the differences be?


7. Will any of the materials you use stretch? If so, how much will it stretch and how will this affect its performance in the long run? (NOTE: All tails will stretch a little, but good tails will not stretch enough to make them unwearable. Therefore, be wary if someone says your tail will NEVER stretch. Good and honest tailmakers know they will stretch a little bit and are not afraid to tell you this!)


8. If I am careful with the tail and take very good care of it, what kind of wear and tear will I see? (NOTE: All tails will wear out, getting scrapes or runs or small holes, so beware the tailmaker who says it will look perfect forever!)


9. What kind of warranty do you offer if my tail is faulty or malfunctioning beyond the normal level of wear and tear stated above?


10. What is the cost of sending my tail to you to be patched up after the normal wear and tear has made it a little scruffy?


11. In what time period will my tail be completed and shipped? If it has not arrived within the allotted time how will I be contacted and what arrangements will be made? If my tail has not been completed within the allotted time, will I have the option to cancel the order? If not, will I have the option of having some of my money refunded or another service given to me to make up for it?


12. Are you willing to sign an agreement stating if six months has passed since the date you stated my tail would be shipped and it has not arrived, that my money will be refunded in full? (NOTE: I realize even the good tailmakers run late, but the fact is that MANY of the bad tailmakers we've seen have slipped in their quality because they took more orders than they could handle; therefore, I believe tailmakers need to be held accountable for the promised time frame and err on the side of caution instead of promising the moon and coming up short.)


13. This is the custom work we agreed to:
Allowing for the fact that my tail is custom made, artistic work and there may be some minor variances in the design due to this, are you willing to sign an agreement stating that if the tail is dramatically different from the intended design that you will allow me to return the tail in exchange for one that does fit the criteria, and that I will receive it in a timely manner (within three months)? Will you also agree that, if this is not possible, you will refund my money in its entirety, including shipping costs since it is not my fault that the tail shipped was faulty?


14. Are you willing to sign an agreement stating that if the tail arrives and does not meet all the criteria above, you will allow me to return the tail in exchange for one that does fit the criteria in a timely manner (within three months) or refund my money in its entirety?

Note that the above questions can be used to draft a contract, something it is ALWAYS good to have when you give someone money--especially when not through a site like Etsy or Ebay, who will back up the seller's claims!



Inferior Versus The Norm: What is a Good Tail?
See Also: What To Expect When Buying Your First Tail (http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?4156-What-to-expect-with-your-first-tail)

Before I go into what to do if you receive an inferior product, I want to go over what does and does NOT constitute such a thing.

Your Tail is an Inferior Product If...


[LIST=1]
It is dramatically different to what you were promised, including use of materials not agreed upon, a below par paint job, and poor construction. Your tail should be equal to or better than the examples you were given of the tailmaker's work.
Your tail falls apart in the water, comes apart at the seams, or otherwise rapidly deteriorates. ANY tail should last for five or six swims--if your tail falls apart immediately, you deserve your money back!
Your tail does not match the measurements given. Do not believe the old "well, you must have measured wrong" line. This is a cop out. If the tail is off enough from your measurements to be detrimental to wearing it, then it is a poor product (unless you've dropped or gained a lot of weight).


Your Tail is Normal If...



It starts to get small scratches or fingernail holes.
It starts to stretch some.
The paint dulls a little.
It is very hard to get on because it is so tight (especially silicone).
It is heavy (silicone).
It is buoyant (especially neoprene).





Taking Action Against an Inferior Product

If you have received an inferior product, you NEED to take action. Do not worry about seeming like a bitch or being a "bad customer." It is time the tail industry sought to be more customer friendly. They did not give you what was promised and you deserve your money back, custom or not. Even if they stated "no returns or refunds on custom work," if they provided you with an inferior product then it is NOT your custom work. Custom work is specific, made to the customer's standards, and if you did not receive what was promised, then they have given you someone else's work, not your custom purchase.

1. First thing to do, obviously, is to contact the tailmaker and state what the problem with your tail is and how you would like it resolved (refund, exhange, etc). Screenshot and save all these emails. If they have not responded within a week, begin contacting them every other day. If, within another week, they have not contacted you, begin trying to contact them every single day and come to MerNetwork to post a review on their poor service. If you have not been able to contact them within three weeks, it is time to threaten legal action.


2. If the tailmaker respondsand refuses your terms, then it is time to make note of this on the review section of MerNetwork, including both your email to the tailmaker, their response, and (if available) the contract you made with them. Screen shot these emails, do not cut and paste. You need visual evidence. Save and document ALL communication, and ALWAYS respond to the tailmaker in a professional, unemotional, straight forward manner.


3. If this is not enough, it is time to find all places the tailmaker communicates with the public and make statements on their service. Once again, be TOTALLY professional, unemotional, and straight forward. Say things like: "On January 1st, 2013, I ordered a custom silicone/neoprene tail from Tailbaby Inc, referred to from now on simply as "the tailmaker." The tailmaker took my design and agreed to ship my tail within in six months. Six months later (June 1st 2013), there was no tail. I attempted to contact the tailmaker, who claimed their internet was down and they had been forced to move, and that my tail would be there in three weeks. Four weeks later (July 1st, 2013), my tail arrived. It was not, however, made out of prosthetic silicone and neoprene as promised, but out of caulking and neoprin, two inferior products not suitable for costume tail use. When I attempted to receive a refund or exhange, the tailmaker repeatedly ignored me." And so on and do forth.

This professional detachment and confidence about what is wrong with your tail you up as the "believable" one. After all, you have the straight forward facts. If you get emotional, people will see you as angry and venegful and you may get attacked by the tailmaker's friends and followers. Continue to make these statements regularly, and DON'T get mad, no matter how anyone responds to you! Be the snobby, know it all who WILL get what they want because they paid money for this service and the service was not fulfilled, not the upset victim who thinks they will never get what they want. Like bullies, scam artists choose to prey on those they view as "weak" and are more likely to cave into someone who sounds like they are all business. Most of all, do NOT let the tailmaker turn you into the bad guy! You are not the bad guy!


4. While this is going on, begin to privately threaten legal action. It is VERY important at this point that you come off as professional and knowledgeable, not as angry and upset. That will make your threat MUCH more believable than if you are angry and since, at this point, we are not yet actually taking legal action, you need to make it really believable that you are. If you have told the tailmaker before that you have very little money, state that you have a relative/friend of the family/fellow church goer, etc who is giving you free legal advice BECAUSE you have very little money and they know that paying the tailmaker was such a strain on your budget. Also mention that you will be publicly announcing their poor service on various mermaid blogs, posting images of the poorly made tail on Tumblr, Twitter, Facebook, etc, and that that you will be contacting the Better Business Bureau.


5. The next step is to inform the tailmaker that you will be going to the police and contacting the tax offices to make sure they know that the business you registered with them is making faulty promises. Since many people who do crafts do not declare their businesses (sometimes to avoid taxes, but usually because they just aren't business savvy and don't know they should), it is very possible that they are not paying taxes on money they receive from you. Since tails cost so much money, if you sell them regularly they DO need to be declared as part of your income, and you can get in SERIOUS legal trouble if you do not. The Man will come down hard all over them if they do not pay their taxes, so this is another good scare tactic, but one that needs to be done in a professional, confidant manner so that they believe you. (Note that it doesn't really matter whether you do these things or not--the threat is what will actually get your money back, not truly trying to turn them into the government or something. If that actually happens, you will probably get nothing, but the point is to force the hand of the person who cheated you.)


6. If the tailmaker still refuse to bend to your wishes it is now time to contact the Better Business Bureau for real. Screen shot your report. Then email your local police and screenshot the email. Then email your tax bureau and screen shot the image. Then email an attorney asking them for pro bono help with your civil case and screen shot the email. Then contact Paypal or whoever you paid through and screen shot the image. Send all of these screenshots to the tailmaker and post them publicly on the internet, still in a PROFESSIONAL manner, just stating you want people to be aware of the actions you are taking. This is not revenge, it is getting what you paid for!!! The best part about all this is, if you DO ever spend the money to take legal action, you will have ALL of this evidence against the tailmaker and you will most likely win the suit, even if you did not have an actual contract. Having pictures of the example tails they promised yours would be similar to versus your faulty tail should be enough.


7. At this point, your tailmaker will probably be pissing themselves and you will most likely get what you want. If not then I WOULD ask around and see if anyone you know is a lawyer. Also, take all the screenshot evidence of communication with different people, pictures of the differences between the promised tail and your tail, and all other evidence against the person, including bad reviews where they have done this before and start emailing it to various law offices asking for pro bono help. Since you have such a well documented case, a lawyer may be willing to help.


The most important thing to remember through this all is to STAY CALM and ACT CONFIDENT. The tailmaker needs to believe you are the kind of person smart enough and strong enough to take action against them.




Taking Action Against a Late Product

If you were promised a tail on a certain date, and it has been months since that time passed, you need to take some sort of action. And please, stop feeling bad about it. Yes, tailmakers are busy, but guess what? They chose to take your order and force you to pay an up-front fee. This means they are legally bound to provide you with the promised product--and the time period in which you receive it is part of the promise. Now, I am not saying to go after someone for being a couple weeks late, ESPECIALLY if they have communicated to you about it. In fact, I would give the tailmaker quite a bit of leeway since this is ONE person working on an artistic project, as long as they keep you updated and have open communication.

On the other hand, being severely late and not even bothering to contact you about it is flat out wrong. They took your money and gave you a promise. You PAID them to make this for you--this is not some gift they are providing you. I don't care how lucky you feel to be getting a tail, this is a PRODUCT that you PAID for, not a gift. Feel lucky for having been able to gather the cash, not for some tailmaker agreeing to make you a tail. They aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. This is their business.

It seems to me that one of the major downfalls of tailmakers is taking on more than they can handle. Some people, like Merbella's, make it work, but you can tell that even Raven is stressed sometimes. Other tailmakers, like FishButts, let it effect the quality of their work. It is the tailmaker's responsibility not to bite off more than they can chew, not your responsibility to hold their hands and pet their heads when they can't get it all done and start cutting corners. Yes, the wait time on tails is long, but that doesn't mean they get months and months of leeway to not deliver. In fact, what they should be doing (and what successful businesses do) is giving themselves much MORE time than they think it will take and surprising the customer by having it finished early. This makes them look good and keeps them from having to cut corners. The problem is, if they do that, then they can't take as many orders. But it is their job to find a balance, not your job to suffer quietly when they fail.

You are NOT a bad customer for expecting your tail to be on time. They are a bad service provider for not quoting a reliable time frame and not communicating with you about hold ups.

So, what do do...

1. Contact the tailmaker, and document all the communications. Be professional and straight forward and confident. State that the tail was promised to arrive on [this date] and that you have not heard anything from them. Explain that when you paid your money, you expected the product to be delivered, and that it has not. State that you would like regular updates, including photographs, of the tail's progress. Screen shot the emails.


2. If the tailmaker still does not respond, take your screenshotted emails online to review pages and their social network pages. Post the original correspondence where the tailmaker promised you a certain date, then your attempts to contact them. State every single attempt at communication that they didn't respond to.


3. If the tailmaker does respond and tells you that Woofy the dog died, their house burned down, their internet is dead, the Russian mafia stole their fabric, etc, etc, do NOT allow these excuses to postpone your tail for long. State a new date for delivery that is reasonable (say, one month), and suggest to the tailmaker that if the tail is not delivered in this time frame, you will receive a refund.

If they say yes, and that month goes by, take your screen shotted image of their email and demand your refund.

If they will not agree to finish your tail in one month or refund, either find a date they WILL agree to that works for you or skip down to step 5 and begin the actions listed there. Make sure at this point that you do not just say 'okay, I understand.' You need to say, 'okay, I understand, now let's come up with a NEW DATE that you can guarantee my tail will arrive by.' This keeps them from feeling as if they can put off your tail indefinitely and sets a firm deadline in their minds that they need to meet. I learned that tip from teaching school--nebulous dies of something being due don't make people work. Specific DEADLINES make people work.


4. Do NOT accept it if Woofy the dog dies again. Excuses are good only once. They are operating a business, and getting paid for it. I used to write novel length fanfic, and my readers would get all angry if I didn't post when I said I would. Well, guess what? I wasn't getting paid to do that. I did it for fun alone, on my personal time, and never made a cent. I may have said I would post, but I hadn't contracted myself to anyone to do it. By taking your money, the tailmaker HAS contracted themselves, and they ARE required to produce your goods in a timely manner, as promised. You can be kind about excuses and set a new deadline ONCE, but do not do it again or they will mentally stick you at the back of the line and you will get excuse after excuse after excuse.

If the tailmaker never communicates with you or misses their second deadline, it is time to find all places online where the tailmaker communicates with the public and make statements on their service. Once again, be TOTALLY professional, unemotional, and straight forward.

5. Say things like: "On January 1st, 2013, I ordered a custom silicone/neoprene tail from Tailbaby Inc, referred to from now on simply as "the tailmaker." The tailmaker took my design and agreed to ship my tail within in six months. Six months later (June 1st 2013), there was no tail. I tried to contact the tailmaker several times, and received no response. Finally, on October 1st, 2013, I received a response stating that the tailmaker had lost her primary job and was forced to move, during which her materials were destroyed. We agreed that the tail would be shipped out by November 1st, 2013. On November 1st, 2013, my tail had not yet arrived. Five days later I contacted the tailmaker, then contacted her every day after that, and there was no response." And so on and do forth.

This professional detachment and confidence about the passed deadline sets you up as the "believable" one. After all, you have the straight forward facts. If you get emotional, people will see you as angry and venegful and you may get attacked by the tailmaker's friends and followers. Continue to make these statements regularly, and DON'T get mad, no matter how anyone responds to you! Be the snobby, know it all who WILL get what they want because they paid money for this service and the service was not fulfilled, not the upset victim who thinks they will never get what they want. Like bullies, scam artists choose to prey on those they view as "weak" and are more likely to cave into someone who sounds like they are all business. Most of all, do NOT let the tailmaker turn you into the bad guy! You are not the bad guy!


6. While this is going on, begin to privately threaten legal action. It is VERY important at this point that you come off as professional and knowledgeable, not as angry and upset. That will make your threat MUCH more believable than if you are angry and since, at this point, we are not yet actually taking legal action, you need to make it really believable that you are. If you have told the tailmaker before that you have very little money, state that you have a relative/friend of the family/fellow church goer, etc who is giving you free legal advice BECAUSE you have very little money and paying the tailmaker was such a strain on your budget. Also mention that you will be publicly announcing their poor service on mermaid blogs, Twitter, Facebook, etc, and that that you will be contacting the Better Business Bureau.


7. The next step is to inform the tailmaker that you will be going to the police and contacting the tax offices to make sure they know that the business you registered with them is making faulty promises. Since many people who do crafts do not declare their businesses, it is very possible that they are not paying taxes on money they receive from you. Since tails cost so much money, if you sell them regularly they DO need to be declared as part of your income, and you can get in SERIOUS legal trouble if you do not. The Man will come down hard all over them if they are not paying taxes, so this is another good scare tactic, but one that needs to be done in a professional, confidant manner so that they believe you. (Note that it doesn't really matter whether you do these things or not--the threat is what will actually get your money back, not truly trying to turn them into the government or something. If that actually happens, you will probably get nothing, but the point is to force the hand of the person who cheated you.)


8. If the tailmaker still refuses to bend to your wishes, it is now time to contact the Better Business Bureau for real. Screen shot your report. Then email your local police and screenshot the email. Then email your tax bureau and screen shot the image. Then email an attorney asking them for pro bono help with your civil case and screen shot the email. Then contact Paypal or whoever you paid through and screen shot the image. Send all of these screenshots to the tailmaker and post them publicly on the internet, still in a PROFESSIONAL manner, just stating that you want people to be aware of the actions you are taking. This is not revenge, it is getting what you paid for!!! The best part about all this is, if you DO ever spend the money to take legal action, you will have ALL of this evidence against the tailmaker and you will most likely win the suit, even if you did not have an actual contract.


9. At this point, your tailmaker will probably be pissing themselves and you will most likely get what you want. If not, then I WOULD ask around and see if anyone you know is a lawyer. Also, take all the screenshot evidence of communication with different people and all other evidence against the person, including bad reviews where they have done this before and start emailing it to various law offices asking for pro bono help. Since you have such a well documented case, a lawyer may be willing to help.




In the end, please remember that, as a customer, you are the one with the rights. THEY made a promise to provide a certain product at a certain time. If they failed in this, it is not your fault but THEIRS. If they did not think they could do it, then they should not have made the promise. This may seem cold hearted, especially since we are a small community, but we need to stop seeing tailmakers as the holy ones and come to understand that the customer who paid a LOT of money for something and got squat is the victim, not the tailmaker who has endless excuses about their products and shipping times.

Everyone in this community understands what a good tail is and what a good tail is not. A tail made with caulking that peels on the first swim is NOT a good tail. A tail that was stitched incorrectly and is at least nine inches smaller than requested is not a good tail. A tail that is asymmetrical and badly painted is not a good tail. No one would purchase these tails for the full price of a new tail if they knew that the tails would have these errors. So why do they purchase from these tailmakers? Because they were promised better. At this point, the BS about "no custom returns" is simply that--BS. The tail is less than what was promised, so it is NOT the custom work that was agreed upon! It is a faulty product that deserves to be redone. Period.

We mers need to start taking a stand for quality so that bad tailmakers can't do this to our sisters and brothers anymore, and I think following these tactics if you receive a faulty product is a good start.

AniaR
12-21-2013, 11:12 PM
Holy mother of posidon that is one hell of a post! Thanks for linking some of my threads :)

I applaud your effort. And as someone who has been screwed over seriously bad by one well known tail maker (who still harasses me for speaking about it) I think it's important people be empowered. There are fake websites going up constantly. There are companies like Merberry, Fishbutts, and Mermaids R Us who are seriously slipping.

But, I also want to say, tailmakers have the right to fire clients. When I was helping Raven (and I can't share specifics because of confidentiality, but believe me if you knew you'd see lol) there were circumstances in which it was very clear the "client" was trying to scam her and get as much out of her as possible. Also, many people do NOT have an accurate expectation of tails (which is why I made my thread). But I also want to say, we are carrying over the bad juju from dishonest tail makers, onto the good ones. We really are. I see so many people posting about waiting for the tails from Raven, or other tail makers on here, and they are totally terrified that they're going to get screwed over when these tail makers have NEVER ever done that. (and for those who have a good reputation and the client isn't happy 9 times out of 10 the tail maker is bending over backwards to fix things to their expectation level- even when it's not their fault in anyway).

Tail makers aren't factories- though it seems like a few of them want to be. They are real human beings, dealing with all the normal delays you would if you were trying to do it yourself. Most of them have a great deal of passion, and as we've seen unless you cut mega corners there really isn't any money in this. I know Raven would much prefer to make less tails and take longer, but she is so in demand she feels guilty when she cant take on more. She knows people dream about this and wait for a super long time, and she wants to give them what they want. But she's only 1 person.

Sometimes, I do think the community is ignorant. And I don't mean that in a rude way, I mean it just as the word is. They don't know. I see people starting out making a big list of all the things they aren't or are going to do when they're a tail maker. But nothing in life works like that. We know that. Parents do it too. Here's my big list of all the things I will and wont do, and then bam, a kid is born and they dictate your parenting style, not you, lol. I see a lot of posts on mernetwork that I just have to bite my tongue because people just have zero experience and their 'knowledge" comes from empirical evidence or community hearsay. Sometimes people take one sentence from a tail maker, and it's like the bible. It gets twisted around into "Eric does this, Raven does that" etc. I see a lot of people post tail making advice as if they've been making tails for years but they are in the process of making one. Like, you just, don't know. And also, people DO measure wrong. Remember the girl that only measured one leg? It's not an exact science. It's when it's DRASTICALLY different from what you've ordered that there is a problem.

My big issue and always will be because I was a victim of it, is people who claim the tails are made of one thing or intentionally mislead clients into thinking the materials are better than they are. Because you think you're paying for quality, and you're getting budget. Tail makers cut corners and make more money if they cut the silicone down with cheap materials, if they use caulking instead of actual silicone glue, when they use neoprin instead of neoprene, when they make monofins that always seem to break instead of purchasing ones that last.

I just wanted to share those thoughts, I think this is a great post with informative stuff and people really ought to read it before investing in a tail. My only criticism is that no tail maker has the time to answer all those question, and I think several of the question border on "none of your business" type deal. I think it's on the client to research the product, like you would any other major purchase. Tail makers (and any manufacturer) have a right to keep their process secret. They don't have to tell you what glue they use. One of the big things I saw when I was helping Raven with her emails was that 99% of the email DIDN'T NEED TO BE SENT TO HER. But the community keeps having this expectation that if we (mermaids and tail makers) can't answer all our emails, we should get an assistant to do it for us. Sorry, but in my own business I don't have time for people who can't be bothered to read my basic information on my site, or who ignore my auto reply or my faq. I can't be bothered with people who constantly email me about tail advice. I have a life, I'm one person, and my clients take priority. Raven got so many emails that had nothing to do with actual clients placing an order. And people sending in lists of these questions, in my opinion, would only make that 1000 times worse for the tail makers who have a huge demand.

I know you're aiming this post more at the tail makers who have been really dropping the ball. I just want people to really realize and stop and think how much pressure we put as a community on the top knotch tail makers. We invest thousands of dollars, and all our hopes and dreams into that person. We guilt them when they can't do things fast enough, then complain if things are rushed. I know Raven and I keep using her as my example, only because I have big insight into what she's going through, and the woman has no life. She has dedicated her life to making other people's dreams come true. She missed her wedding anniversaries, birthdays, family functions, skipped the honey moon, and right now when she should be spending time with families for christmas she's pulling all nighters. You might say, well then she shouldn't take so many orders. She tries not to. It's not like you can go on a website and order a tail whenever you want like other tail makers. It's not like you can buy in bulk from her. She staggers what she takes, but people change their mind mid way and pay for rush order, or people change their design, or someone's not happy with how it looks and she's a perfectionist so she works her butt off. Then she gets people who have been waiting 6 months as it is to place an order and she feels guilty and tries to squeeze them in. Then she has people send tails back if they need to be fixed up or altered- something no other tail maker CONSISTENTLY does. Does she screw up? Of course! She's not perfect. But she's always willing to invest the time, money, and energy when she can. Unless it becomes apparent that she can't and she gives refunds- another thing others don't do. She doesn't even like the term "tail maker", she'd rather just be seen as an artist. But have you noticed how people comment on her stuff? It's always very selfishly. "Where's mine" "i want" "please don't take a break until I get a chance to buy one" etc. It's never, "wow you put in so much hard work." "I can see you've improved so much over the past year" etc. It just makes me sad as her friend, and I'm sure other tail makers relate.

So I guess while we're trying to protect our hard earned investments, doing our best to be patient, and feeling paranoid because of bad tail makers, the thing I want to get across is that they are only human. And we put an awful lot of pressure and expectation on them. I wouldn't have nearly the grudge against mertailor as I have had if he had only been upfront and honest from the start, so I think we have to recognize it when people do that.

As mermaids grow in popularity, we can expect the scammers will come out in full force. SO READ THREADS LIKE THESE, keep yourself informed, and do your research. I mean, take a look at the reviews but also realize when 10 new members all join on the same day to post a positive 1-2 line "review" there is probably something fishy going on there ;) it all comes down to common sense. If you're going to go with a tail maker who has a terrible reputation... then don't be surprised when you get crap.

AniaR
12-21-2013, 11:18 PM
also, I forgot to say this should be stickied, admins! lol

MerEmma
12-21-2013, 11:25 PM
WOW! Great post, very informative. I agree, sticky is necessary!

Seatan
12-21-2013, 11:45 PM
Raina, I agree completely with most of what you have said, which is why I used Raven as an example of people who can handle the orders versus people like FishButts, who couldn't. And I am SURE there are customers out there who try to wring tailmakers dry. But this post wasn't made for tailmakers, it was made for customers who are dealing with bad tailmakers and is VERY specific that you should have realistic expectations and that you should give tailmakers leeway on time before you do anything.

The one thing I do not agree with is your statement that tailmakers do not have time to answer those questions. The questions are all things you should be able to know, such as what materials are being used, what sort of drainage your tail will have, and how long you can expect it to last. How can people research it first, otherwise? The only way to know for SURE what you are getting in a tail is to ask the person who makes it. The questions listed are the kind of questions that could have STOPPED some of these bad sales. Sure, maybe it is a bit of a hassle for a good tailmaker, but what if the person you are trying to get a tail from is NOT Raven, who has an excellent reputation? It is only fair for a tailmaker to tell you what kind of product you are getting. These are not trade secrets, they are basic questions that will help you figure out what kind of work you are getting. I read once, for example, that someone received a tail with no drainage holes. If she had asked what kind of drainage the tail would have when she was about to purchase, then she could have avoided this problem. The fact that we just implicitly trust that a tailmaker will do us right is part of the reason people get screwed.

As for bad tailmakers' reputations running off onto good tailmakers, I do agree; however, I do not agree with your comments about customer correspondence. I worked in customer service management at one time, and I truly believe it is one of the most important parts of a business. I do understand both you and Raven have times that you feel too busy to respond, and I am not judging either of you on that. I am simply stating that if I pay thousands of dollars, I want to be kept updated, even if it is only a stock email that simply says 'Just to let you know, I haven't forgotten about you. We are still on schedule.' Even this basic communication makes people feel safer and more cared about, ESPECIALLY if it was a verbal and not a physical contract when they purchased a tail. No one is trying to criticize you or Raven, or somehow targeting her. I think tailmakers should keep customers updated, but this applies to ALL tailmakers, and was not somehow a shake of the fist about Raven. Not everything is about Raven--I don't personally have any feelings one way or the other about Merbella's other than the fact that I think she makes gorgeous tails. I wrote this post because of all the badly made tails that people have been posting about, not as a criticism toward one of the best tailmakers out there, so please don't take it as such.

AniaR
12-22-2013, 12:47 AM
Yes I wasn't trying to generalize some of my comments to everything of what you said, like the questons. I disagree with *some* of them, and I feel most of them are already common knowledge or posted on the websites and FAQs etc of most tail makers. So I think it's a waste of time for tail makers to go back and forth over all those questions with people who are aren't even customers (that's often a way too for people to fish for information to make their own tails, instead of doing the work of reading what's already out there). If they really want to buy, that info is out there. And as for the emailing, I was meaning in general, not people who are already paying customers. But that being said, many customers take it tooo far. Like 5 emails in a day. They don't understand their tail isnt started the day they pay, it gets added to the queue. They also want progress shots but really, there's the "please approve the paint and style" and then the "final product." Everything else is moot. AGain, that has more to do with client expectation. Most tail makers who have a heavy load can't be emailing the clients daily, and that IS standard across most companies. I mean, for example, people buying my books. They are printed once they'r epaid for (to save money and trees) I'm not going to email people and say "the paper is printed" "the cover is printed" "the book is assembled". Instead, my publisher emails confirmation of payment received, and emails when the book has shipped. I know that's not the same thing as a 1000-3000$ mermaid tail ;) but they ALL look the same more or less until they're painted.

And yeah the only reason I use Raven for an example is because I've helped her with her online end of things and I know the ins and outs of her company, I have no one else to draw on :p

I will say however, until you actually experience it and run a company, it's easy for people to say what they think should and shouldn't be done.

I feel like I should post some of the emails I get to show what I mean, and I'm not even a tail maker @_@ someone asked me recently if they could send a monofin to a tail maker and waive the monofin fee. I don't know, ask YOUR tail maker! lol why are you asking ME? I'm not obligated to answer an email like that, it has nothing to do with what I'm doing and if the person can't take the 5 seconds to read the text above my context form that says I wont answer those emails, then I have to assume they don't want the information that badly.

Seatan
12-22-2013, 01:14 AM
Yeah, that's crazy. I totally agree with the expectations thing and with only asking questions that the info isn't posted. If the tailmaker has an FAQ with that info in it, then no need to ask. It's more for people who just generally say they will make a tail. As for the time thing, I do agree people can go overboard. You have to understand that the wait time for anything custom is going to be long, and emailing people mad number of times doesn't do anything but make you look like a jerk. The steps I mentioned are definitely for use when you honestly believe you will not be getting your tail--it's not okay to harass tailmakers that really are working on your tail. It's when you get down to the point that you know you are not getting that tail that I think you need to take action rather than accept it.

AniaR
12-22-2013, 01:32 AM
Totally agree :) The only reason I even made my comments (because I know you have a sense of whose who in the tail making world and the issues surrounding certain people) is because I know some people reading the threads don't have any history and don't know. I think it's a great and informative thread and hopefully it'll get stickied :)

Ariel-Starfish
12-22-2013, 03:23 AM
Yess! Sticky indeed! Thanks for putting this up! :thumps up: