Liquid Latex over Spandex, has anyone tried this?

[Mermaid Clarity]

I'm sorry if someone's already asked this question but I couldn't find a thread so here it is again.

So I'm trying to figure out the cheapest way to make a tail that has a latex/silicone outer layer. I've seen all the ALEX over neoprene but I was wondering, has anyone tried using something like liquid latex, the kind used for costumes: http://www.liquidlatex.com/liquidlatex.html over swimsuit spandex? I haven't seen anyone talk about using a silicone or a latex over swimsuit material, or if anyone has mentioned it I haven't been able to find it.

Also, I know a lot of people have reservations about using ALEX so any suggestions on alternatives to ALEX that are on the cheaper end?


BASICALLY 2 questions: has anyone tried a substance over spandex rather than neoprene? and, what are some suggestions other than ALEX to make a cloth-backed tail?

[Arella]

I'm thinking if you did this the spandex would wear out too quickly and stretch so it would unattach from the latex. Not sure though just my thoughts :)

[Mermaid Clarity]

I'm wondering if making the spandex loose enough so it stretches less might help. I have no idea how long it takes for spandex to wear out

[Arella]

I've never had a fabric tail but from reading around it doesn't sound very long. I would recommend just making/getting a spandex tail to start with :)

[Mermaid Oshun]

Latex will crack, wrinkle and peel off if you put it on spandex which stretches a lot. It would be better to put it on neoprene only. Use a light color or white neoprene so it the latex colors wont look dull and hard to show up.
Best wishes

[Mermaid Clarity]

Plans for a spandex tail are in the works (for practice swimming in the monofin) :)

Ugh, so latex on spandex is out. What about liquid latex on neoprene, has anyone tried that?

[Mermaid Oshun]

Yes I have put liquid latex on fabric coated neoprene. It soaks into the fabric and becomes part of the whole fabric which is coating the neoprene. The first coat may show fabric texture. The second coat should start looking smooth. Instead of planning to paint it afterward, try mixing your pigments into the latex so you color it and coat it in one step. The reason for this is that paints tend to flake off of latex even with heat setting and all other measures

[Mermaid Clarity]

Yes I have put liquid latex on fabric coated neoprene. It soaks into the fabric and becomes part of the whole fabric which is coating the neoprene. The first coat may show fabric texture. The second coat should start looking smooth. Instead of planning to paint it afterward, try mixing your pigments into the latex so you color it and coat it in one step. The reason for this is that paints tend to flake off of latex even with heat setting and all other measures

When you use liquid latex, can you press in a scale texture like the ALEX plus and having made one, would you consider this a cheaper but viable alternative?

[Mermaid Oshun]

I think a Merfin by Mahina oceanika would look great with that latex coated neoprene skirt! I would not try to make the bottom part (fluke ) out of neoprene http://mahinamermaid.com/merfin

[Mermaid Oshun]

I never tried pressing a texture in liquid latex because it is too thin/ runny to hold up. It would need a latex thickener mixed in it to try to do that.

[Mermaid Clarity]

The Merfin looks so cool! I'm hoping I can get a the right look with the latex coating but I'm probably going to give up on the idea of a fabric-backed tail in general and just save for the silicone dragonskin tail.

[emma11]

You can definitely press latex and get a texture. I've seen people do it with metal grating etc.

If you do that you just have to watch and make sure the latex doesn't wrap around whatever your pressing into it or it will be a really nasty problem pulling up! Latex thickeners work lovely for this kind of thing. :)

There's a good tutorial about it on deviantart. I'll see if I can find the link for you


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[Mermaid Clarity]

Emma11, is it this tutorial? This is the one with ALEX plus, I'm hoping it'll work with thickened liquid latex:

http://missfit1023.deviantart.com/art/my-tail-tutorial-209421264

[emma11]

Sure is! You just definitely need to have a latex thickener. Not too much, mine is at the point where it would need any thickener but it's froze a couple time which is really bad for latex.

Anyways since that's beside the point! A little bit of thickener, a metal grate or mesh, and you'd be golden. You need about 2 gallons of latex, that's all I used for mine and my fluke is massive. I'd buy three just in case? I have about 2 1/2 gallons left and I bought five gallons.


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[Mermaid Clarity]

I HAVE HOPE AGAIN! What latex did you use specifically? I'm considering liquid latex used for costumes- not ALEX plus.

[emma11]

XD Yeah you definitely want to stay away from Alex Plus, that stuff is NASTY and super toxic. So avoid that at all costs.

RD-407 from Monster Makers is absolutely wonderful, it's what I used and it's really great.

http://www.monstermakers.com/product/RD407-Mask-Latex-for-Halloween-Masks-and-Props.html

The thickener should also make it cure faster, that was the most annoying thing about latex is that it reacts to air, so it has to cure. You can heat it with a blow dryer to make it dry faster. So do a couple layers on top of the neoprene that you use before you do the grate technique.

Latex can make gorgeous tails though! Mine is latex and it's lovely. <3

[Mermaid Clarity]

faith restored. I'm definitely going to try the neoprene/latex tail. It just seems like the cheaper option, now.

[emma11]

Oh I'm glad! haha. It's not going to look like a silicone tail, I can't promise that. Silicone is clear, latex is not. And when you paint it make certain to mix the paint into the latex before you paint it, that'll help it not fade super super quickly, but it will fade unless you put on a top coat of something clear. I know people are experimenting that that currently, I certainly am!

http://i40.tinypic.com/4r9vn5.jpg

But see? Latex tails are fun haha. That was was done with molds, so if you feel like going all out and doing molds, it's definitely work it too!

[Mermaid Clarity]

OH wow, that's latex on neoprine? What kind of paint do you use? What'd you use for molds? SO MANY NEW QUESTIONS!!!

[emma11]

Haha, molds I just used plaster of Paris. There are a ton of threads of how to make molds etc, but I'd be happy to walk you through it!

And yup, that's latex on neoprene. Neoprene helps keep you warm in the water too which was particularly nice.


EDIT: oh! And I use jacquard pearl ex pigments for paint. Plus a little acrylic
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[Mermaid Clarity]

If you don't mind me asking, how much did the project cost you?

[emma11]

Let's see...

80 for neoprene plus shipping
I spent 200 on latex because I bought five gallons

Mold making was another 200
And then paints were 50? But I made some mistakes along the way and wasted materials


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[Mermaid Clarity]

Ouch, $530... but you didn't use all the latex. So in theory I could go halfsies with another person... why was the mold so expensive?

[emma11]

Mold making stuff can get pricey. That was the one I messed up on. If you go through the ceramic shop you can get 50 pounds of ultracal for 50 bucks which is perfect. So, in theory, you could probably do it for 100 or less if you're careful.


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[Mermaid Clarity]

I'll just have to not screw up :P

[emma11]

XD there are enough of us on here that can help you with molding. It's really very simple with a mermaid tail. You don't have to do a two part mold, and if you're not mass producing them you can do an ultracal mold instead of fiberglass.

You'll need some strong people to help you! They are big molds. But so much fun to make.

Starting a tail is really exciting!


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