Jazz's Extended Silicone Mermaid Tail!

[jazz2453]

So...... This summer I want to make an extended silicone mermaid tail like h2o with the rod and footplate. I've been researching and trying to figure it out. This will be the thread that I will share my journey. There are still so many things I don't understand and I thought you guys can help out. I like the silicone tails on the market now, but something about them is unrealistic, including my tails as well. Between the vibrant colorful paint jobs or all the fins, I just wanted something more realistic. Don't get me wrong, everyone makes beautiful tails! Beauiful artwork! But I just want to make a tail more realistic. So here is what I've come up with but I'm missing a few pieces in the whole puzzle -

Step 1: Fiberglass body cast! I will make a plaster mold of my legs then cast fiberglass and resin in the mold and seam up the halves. Like this page (http://www.studiocreations.com/HOWTO/bodycast/index.html) but with just my legs.

Step 2: Build neoprene wetsuit with a pocket for a foot plate and hole for the rod to come out. Using fiberglass blade from a monfin, attach a flexible rod to the fin. Make the rod go through the hole and connect to the foot plate in the pocket:
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QUESTIONS-

Q1- What will the foot plate and rod be made of?
Q2- Instead of a footplate, can I just attach foot pockets to the end of the rod>


Step 3: Sculpt the fluke (front and back) and create a 2 part mold.

Step 4: Using the body cast, sculpt the body of the tail. Make a two part mold.
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QUESTIONS-

Q3- Do I need to sculpt the tail body? I'm not going to do plastic scales for this tail but I'm going to sculpt them
Q4- Will I paint the silicone directly on the neoprene?

Step 5: Pour silicone in bottom part of fluke mold and inject fin. Leaving the rod in place (the fluke mold goes up to a little higher then the foot plate) apply a thin layer of silicone. Apply silicone foam in the mold to back the silicone skin and show no signs of heels and ankles.

Step 6: Apply silicone in two part scale mold. Inject neoprene one half at a time. Wait for it to cure before doing the next side. Flip it over for other side and shut mold. Apply silicone to finalize.

Step 7: Demold everything, build it up around my body cast and paint the tail!

Yeah so that made no sense and that's why I need help xD THANKS!

Oh, and does anyone know what they are doing here:

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[SIF]

Oh, and does anyone know what they are doing here:

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They're sculpting insets for the legs. It prevents the tails from collapsing into the leg gaps when they lay on the dorsal. This is done quite often in FX fabrications .

[XMermaidMarinaX]

You are too much! :D I can't wait to see what you manage to get done with this one. I'm sure it will be AMAZING though!

[PearlieMae]

The engineering for this is going to be very difficult. I don't want you to think I am shooting down your project, but think theres a big difference between an extended tail for photography and a functional one. Initially, one of the things you are going to have to design is the extension rod coming up between your lower legs and somehow fastening them around your legs near the knees (velcro?). Otherwise, you are going to have a weak/floppy spot at the footplate. You'll need to make a fulcrum.

I am going to try and draw up something for you, okay? :D

Also, I think there is a curing issue with silicone and neoprene.

[SIF]

Also, if you don't want to layer on the scales, you'll definitely need to sculpt a full body or extend your scale sheet. If you extended your scale sheet, you could always use the silicon to adhere the fluke, fill cylinder and insets to the scale sheet.

[Mermaid Dottie]

This girl did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYi7zZMjptE

[Nicoseamus]

This is very ambitious, and very cool! I hope that you succeed in your attempt at making something really creative and realistic. Do you plan for it to be swimmable? Because tails like these are apparently much more dangerous and much slower in the water than monofined ones. But, I bet in the end, it'll be worth it. Good luck!

[lynsea]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EskfaadPYTI

I posted another video because that one wasn't working. This girl made a full SUIT (it goes up to her chest)! How have I not seen this video before?! There is a video of the painted tail too.

[Trident True]

Yes its going to be quiet difficult but doesnt mean it can't be done. i didnt really understand what they meant either so i can't elaborate, ive used silicone on Neoprene and it cures just fine and sticks extreamly well. Jaz please keep an eye out on my thread you may pick up something about how i do my extension. i wish you all the luck.

[Mermaid Harmony]

Jazz you are insanely talented, if anyone can do it you can. You go girl. Do your thing. :-)

[PearlieMae]

I agree with Harmony! I just want to make sure you have everything covered and tested before you pour!

[Winged Mermaid]

Jazz you are insanely talented, if anyone can do it you can. You go girl. Do your thing. :-)

My thoughts exactly!

[Mermaid Adriel]

it seems hard to do, but I'm sure you can do it well! :D I can't wait!

[jazz2453]

I will definitely have like 20 Barbie doll tails before I do this! And Pearlimae, I understand exactly what you mean. There are actually straps that fasten the tail to their legs for better movement. I've heard the h2o are very difficult to swim with, but I watched a behind the scenes of mako mermaids, and the tails are only 30 pounds and the girls had no trouble swimming in them. I'm going for that more lightweight tail and will have to test it out! Thanks for all the help everyone! :)

[MerAnthony]

I am very intrigued on this idea for a tail. Can't wait to see to progress you make with it.

[Mermaid Julz]

Go Jazz Go!!! You amaze me every time you make a new tail. I am sure this one will be just as awesome!

[jazz2453]

Thanks Julz and MerAnthony~~!

[jazz2453]

Here is a video I watched. The behind the scenes is from about 5:00 to 6:30

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owmQsREUd2M

And of course:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wg2xMJNNSE

[PearlieMae]

I noticed something else you mentioned... "Step 5: ...Apply silicone foam in the mold to back the silicone skin and show no signs of heels and ankles.

You will definitely need to use something other than foam...solid (not firm, for flexibility) silicone to fill in that space, otherwise you will float up like a mosquito larvae! I modified my busted Rapid with a pair of Crocs, and I could barely keep the fin underwater!

I can't wait to see you accomplish this incredible challenge!

[Mermaid Dottie]

Yeah, I'm totally sure that you got this.

[jazz2453]

Well Smoothon sells this product called Somma Fomma or something like that. It's what I was thinking of using.

[jazz2453]

http://www.smooth-on.com/index.php?cPath=1253 ??? Would this work?

[deepblue]

I was just wondering how you'd hide the heels in a tail like this. Then I saw what PearlieMae wrote. I know the heels in H2O tails are obscured pretty well by what's surrounding them, but the longer tails in the Hook movie seem like they just keep their feet super pointed, and then fins hide the bumps that do show.

I can't wait to see how you accomplish this. I'm sure you will, too.

[PearlieMae]

I've contacted Tech Support and should know soon. :D

[jazz2453]

Awww you didn't have to do that! I would've done it :) I love contacting them!

[Jessica]

Can't wait to see how this turns out jazz!! :)

[PearlieMae]

No worries, Jazz! I wonder what Smooth On thinks of all these merfolk nowadays!

[jazz2453]

HAHA! :) Thanks Jessica!

[Coradion]

I've been looking at trying the same project with a swim rod fin. One thing to consider is going to be your buoyancy, especially with any kind of foam and with neoprene depending on the thickness you choose you'll have a strong positive buoyancy. In H2O they used lead weights in long fabric tubes that lay on the girl's legs just below the zipper. I would definitely look into how much buoyancy foams will add and how much weight you'll need to counter balance it because it might impact the amount of space you'll need to leave free around your legs. You can get lead weights from a fishing supply store and sew them into a fabric tube pretty easily.

The swim rod can be a bit challenging but I was looking at the dolphin Winter's prosthetic fluke and how it attaches and was put together. I'm having a friend who does fiberglass and polycarbonate work make something similar for me.

[PearlieMae]

Still waiting on an answer from Smooth On...

[PearlieMae]

The smooth on foam floats, they said...do you want them to test it?

[Mermaid Caspiana]

Can't wait to see you do this! :D

[Mermaid Mhara]

So excited to see if this works out well! I've seen your other works and you are amazing. I'm extremely interested in this project considering I said when I make my first tail it will be extended! :)

[MermaidNadia]

Hi Jazz,
have you ever seen the Lunocet Monofins? They are expensive, but mechanically perfect for the effect you want...
https://de-de.facebook.com/lunocet

[jazz2453]

It's alright Pearlie, thanks for the help:) Thanks Merman Vaughan! MermaidNadia, I have seen that! :) Super cool but expensive. I plan on making my own that looks just like that! :)

[MermaidBrandie]

Awesome so someone DID mention the lunocet. lol



Also, see this: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/lunocet-2014-monofin-free-diving-/171242625604?pt=AU_Scuba_Diving_Snorkelling&hash=item27dedb1a44&_uhb=1

there's one on ebay

[Deepsea merman]

Hi! you can make the fluke with plastic and pvc tubes, do you wanna know?

[MerEmma]

Can't wait to see more of this! :D

[MermaidMyrthe]

Go Jazz! Cant wait to see this!

[jazz2453]

So I've been thinking about this for a long time now, and once I saw Trident True use silicone for the extension, I wanted to ask you all. Would it work if instead of the whole rod and footplate, that I filling the extended part with hard/flexible silicone to create the realistic/fluid movement?

[MerEmma]

It'd definitely be really heavy, but I hope someone has a better answer for you than that, haha. I feel like that'd be REALLY heavy and difficult to push underwater, though...

[Anahita]

I *think* it would be hard to get decent propulsion like that. I'm not sure though, because I haven't tried it. It just seems to me that even with a shore 30 rubber (the hardest platinum cure silicone I've seen and worked with) to do the extension, you'd not get much push.

[jazz2453]

Okay thanks. I figured it'd be too heavy.

[Mujdak]

Hello Jazz, I saw this few days ago and i just wanted to know, if you have made it ;)

[GulfMerman101]

Hey there I want to say that I love the idea that you want to make a tail like jmb fx, coincidently I'm planning to make one too, I got the idea down, just not the color for the tail, I'm varying from blue like Zac's, to either the ones from H2o ? 2 years ago I'm meet with a special effects artist at JMB FX STUDIOS, his name was Steven Parker, and his job position was the painting, but what's his face Jason Baird, involved everyone on the making of the tails. Soooo? it hit me in the face that i see if he could tell me how they make the tails, without me actually telling him, because HE said that any information dealing with any professional processes must "Stay in the House of Jmb Fx Studios". so I lied, yes I know, but I wanted the info ahah, and I said that I actually graduated high school and im at University of Art and culture in Arizona, and we were learning about moulding, and I asked Steven if he could give me alil insight to his advanced knowledge in the workplace. and bingo I got it all. it took about 3 months to get it since he was constantly on projects, but yeah I got the complete information on making the tails, and yes ive heard that making it would be spending lot of money, but theres a trick to that, ill say, Alibaba.com is a marketing business place to buy large quanties for REALLY cheap price, because its straight from CHINA, im going to buy and recommend to buy there, ( Clear Silicone, Clear Urethane Resin, Nylon for the fluke, (which Ive seen go about 200+ dollars) NOT ON Alibaba though and finally Neoprene.)
Silicone- for the Body, dorsal fins
Urethane- Tail Fluke
Nylon- Inside the middle of the Fluke
Neoprene- Body Sock, which he said is actually 3 layered, not One! if you have any questions feel free to ask me, and ill contact him to see what Steven might say

[GulfMerman101]

the reason behind using urethane instead of silicone for the Fluke, is that silicone will tear, while Urethane is alil more stiffer, its a lot more stronger than silicone, that's why you really don't see their tails really flimsy in H2o and Tails, however unlike Mako Mermaids, they use a lower grade of urethane. And as for the foam it isn't just any foam, there were actually a two types of foam they used for the tail itself, one is Black Medium Foam , and the next is a Coarse Water Resistant Foam. the colors for H2o and Mako are Gold, and Red Russet, with a finishing layer of smoke, which I think is a murky light grayish color.

[GulfMerman101]

I disagree with using Fiberglass to swim in because it is Not flexible at all, and with age it will begin to chip away due to the constant flexing, your basically bending glass, and we all know that glass will never be Flexible, and in result it'll snap in time. NYLON is what they used, because of its flexible, and long lasting advantage, its the reason why they used it, indeed it can be pricy but if you go to Alibaba.com you will find the same product, but a lot more cheaper, because its a Marketing supply Business, they have a lot yet sell it for really cheap.

[MerEmma]

Hey there, you have a lot of great info on all this. Perhaps it would be best to combine all your thoughts on this sort of project into one post/one thread? You seem to have enough knowledge to create a really well-put-together thread that could be used as a reference for all future extended tail projects. :)

[Marinus Mortimer]

Hey there, you have a lot of great info on all this. Perhaps it would be best to combine all your thoughts on this sort of project into one post/one thread? You seem to have enough knowledge to create a really well-put-together thread that could be used as a reference for all future extended tail projects. :)


Emma i'm 100% with you!��

[Marinus Mortimer]

the reason behind using urethane instead of silicone for the Fluke, is that silicone will tear, while Urethane is alil more stiffer, its a lot more stronger than silicone, that's why you really don't see their tails really flimsy in H2o and Tails, however unlike Mako Mermaids, they use a lower grade of urethane. And as for the foam it isn't just any foam, there were actually a two types of foam they used for the tail itself, one is Black Medium Foam , and the next is a Coarse Water Resistant Foam. the colors for H2o and Mako are Gold, and Red Russet, with a finishing layer of smoke, which I think is a murky light grayish color.


You really know your stuff hugh, I'm also planning on making an extended tail but with my own fluke mold.
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[Merman Alex]

uhhhhh i looked from close range to your photo and... is that the tail from zac in mako mermaids??!?!?!?!?!?