Alex plus, mermaid tail creation questions.

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

So I have been coming up with beautiful mermaid concepts and creations (on paper) for years!

And after sitting here for the last year or 2 and watching everyone join the wave of tailmaking, I think its high tide I got in the creative currents myself! *shakes a little fist*
So with that being said I have a few questions.
Is there another way to make a tail with a similar concept of the NEOPRENE and ALEX method? (I ask because I had read about some of the various issues people have been noticing with the use of ALEX)
Has anyone tried making a mold of a scale or scales made with ALEX, then layered the NEOPRENE with ALEX and adhered the scale/scales made from ALEX to the sticky layers of ALEX on the NEOPRENE?
What are some good methods of painting the tail once the ALEX has dried?
Will the paint chip or scratch?
Can you mix the paint with ALEX and then paint the tail?
Can ALEX be mixed with paint and then sprayed over the tail? (Can ALEX be sprayed at all is the better question.) LOL
Are there any tips or advice anyone can give me directly to help be get started and things to (Do or Don’t do) when creating a tail with this method. Also im interested in working with other fabrics on the tail, so if anyone has an understanding of this I would appreciate more information on this and anything else that has worked or hasn’t worked for any reason with this method of tailmaking.

[ShyMer]

I want to make sure you understand that Alex was not intended to be used in this way. It's a kind of caulk like you use on your bathtub. It's meant to be prevent occasional leaks, not to be submerged for a couple hours on end. It's not recommended for constructing mermaid tails.

I don't think you would want to make a mold for Alex (which I think is what you're saying, not sure.) It is toxic when not cured (a problem considering it becomes uncured in water), not very durable, and takes forever to dry. I don't know how long it would even take for Alex to completely cure in a mold, or if it would cure properly at all. Mold making can be expensive and take a long time to finish. If you're going to go to the trouble to make a mold, you might as well spend a little extra for real latex that will last longer and be generally less of a pain.

As to the method you mentioned- I doubt what you suggest would make a difference to fix any of the problems you referenced. It'll still uncure in water if submerged long enough, becoming hazardous once again. It'll still take forever to dry the first time (assuming it would cure in a mold at all.)

You're correct about painting- you'd want to mix it with the Alex/latex so it bonds more securely. It's said you can use Createx airbrush paint with a heat gun to set also. Both methods can chip and wear so expect to do touch ups. You can use an airbrush, a paintbrush or both.

Otherwise your questions have already been discussed before. Make sure you read the tail making threads, there's a lot of tips and tricks that will help you there.

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

Thank you! Yes I have read many of the other threads and even the FAQ's and the information on ALEX here. I was hoping though that someone could give me more positive insight on how to start tail construction with a similar method.

[Winged Mermaid]

See thread with huge disclaimer here: http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?553-Archive-quot-Using-ALEX-for-Tails-quot

If you're going to make a mold, chances are you couldn't even get ALEX to work with it. It's far too thick. The reason people made ALEX and thickened latex tails in the first place was because they didn't know how to make a mold, or mold making was too expensive. Just get proper slip-casting latex and avoid all the headache and possible health issues. Slip casting latex is meant to be poured into molds- it's watery. Plus it's skin safe and much more durable than ALEX. It's really best just to spend the money and get the real thing.

Making a hybrid tail of neoprene + molded silicone or molded latex is tricky. Thus why they're expensive ($1,000-$1,500 for silicone). You have to make the neoprene tail then cast the latex or silicone very thin (which takes practice) and adhere it with a special glue to the neoprene once it's cured. Adhering everything and seaming them is a pain in the fin. It's actually easier to make a full-latex or full-silicone tail if you want to use a mold. Also there can be a lot of sizing issues, as once the material is adhered it takes away most of the stretch of the neoprene, and that's with silicone- I imagine latex would be even more so.

[Winged Mermaid]

Whoops, looks like you were typing while I was typing!

Well, if you really want to do something like this, I can give you some insight on some potential construction flaws. You'd have to water down the ALEX hugely to be able to get it to work with a mold. ALEX already takes weeks to dry when used for a think later on top of neoprene. Watering it down so much may mean you may be waiting months for it to cure, or it possibly may never cure.

So looking past that, if you get a cured molded scale sheet, and go to adhere it to the neoprene.. if you used more ALEX, you're cutting of the air supply when you sandwich it between the neoprene and cured sheet of alex. That means it probably will not cure. People found that trying to glue down a fluke with ALEX it would take months (with the body rolled up and even using a fan or other ventilation) or just not cure, ever. When they went back in the water months later and discovered a pocket of uncured ALEX, they had severe reactions to the uncured ALEX making contact with their skin. Hospital-level severe.

Those are just two things I can think of off the top of my head.

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

Is there a way to do the Neoprene + Latex combo wile using the glue? What I hope to achieve is a thick fishy looking tail from thicker Neoprene and upholstery thread. And to then find a way to add scales over the Neoprene one at a time or in scale sheet patches.

[MerAnthony]

I would say use silicone on unpainted neoprene. An tint the silicone to the color you want an built it that way. Just a thought.

[AniaR]

Same problem with silicone Caulkings fyi

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

would the silicone need a specific glue to stick to the unpainted neoprene?

[Winged Mermaid]

If you just wanted to do patches, glue could be a good way to do that instead of using some latex for glue. Though more liquid latex could work since it dries faster. My best guesses for latex to neoprene would be more liquid latex, E600, Seal Cement, or Contact Adhesive.

[Anahita]

Check out Mermaid Julz latex tail thread (http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?5855-Julz-s-First-Latex-Tail-attempt&highlight=julz+latex+tail), she has how-to videos up for making a neoprene and latex tail

Whatever you do, do NOT use any caulking material - be it silicone caulking or ALEXplus, or what have you. It's not skin-safe, it's not meant to be used for these applications, and so it will degrade and so on, and you'll waste money because you have to constantly repair it.

[Winged Mermaid]

You were replying while I was typing again :P Yes, silicone needs specific glue to glue it to neoprene. It's expensive too. http://www.smooth-on.com/Epoxy,-Silicone-an/c11_1189/index.html

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

will the entire tail keep its rubber like stretch and fluidity?

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

So i was looking at the video's made by Julz!
Very nice of her to have documented each step im sure she will answer more questions I have by watching the vids and if not the vids im sure I can reach out to her for questions.

I'm hoping to use a very thick neoprene fabric and upholstery thread to make a tail that is smooth, solid, thick, and fleshy, and also form fitting. And I would like to try and make each scale by hand in clay, doing various sizes, and make a mold of each size of the scales, and simply secure each scale one at a time to the thick neoprene base form. I think doing the same thing Julz recommended doing mentioning making a cast of your legs from the tummy down would be best! This way I can sew the neoprene together and then slip it over the cast. With the feet portion of the cast pointing up into the air and the waist side down i can begin sticking the latex scales to the neoprene fabric one at a time and simply make the scales as I go.

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

I just wonder if it's possible to cut neoprene the same way you would cut foam. This way if the thick neoprene has a sharp edge around the rim at the waist, or even at the bottom of the tail around the monofin, I could just cut it or sculpt it into a smoother fit and finish by simply trimming up the edges and then cover any mistakes with scales. <3

[Mermaid Thamara]

Hey guys! I am new to this forum, and i have densided to create a neopren latex tail. Can you use any other type of latex similar to the Alex plus? I live in Danmark and can't get my hands on that one.

[Winged Mermaid]

See thread with huge disclaimer here: http://mernetwork.com/index/showthre...for-Tails-quot (http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?553-Archive-quot-Using-ALEX-for-Tails-quot) It's better to use real latex. How to make a a neoprene and real latex tail here: http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?3838

[Mermaid Thamara]

This was so helpful, Thank you <3

[Mermaid Thamara]

I am a vers small girl... How many gallons do i use ???