Liquid Neoprene

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

I was just wondering has anyone thought of using or looking into liquid neoprene to make tails?
Maybe buying neoprene material and just layering it with more, by adding scales ALSO made from liquid neoprene. In the same way many add sheets of scales made from molds with other materials.

[Winged Mermaid]

Don't think so. I've never seen it mentioned.

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

Liquid Neoprene, a latex based product which is fantastic for casting, very light and hard wearing and can be drilled and sanded and painted. Comes ready to pour into a clean plaster mould and is white in colour, drying to a ‘natural’ flesh colour (black version available also)
Allow to stand for 1 to 5 hours depending on the thickness of cast you require, then the slurry or slip is poured out of the plaster mold. This excess is reusable. The lining or casting that builds up on the walls of the plaster mould is allowed to dry overnight then removed for further drying, 2 to 3 days preferably before sanding and painting.
How to Use
1. Pour the liquid latex casting compound into CLEAN, DRY, PLASTER MOLD, The Liquid Neoprene requires no on site compounding. Just stir lightly, and start to use. Allow to set in the mould approximately 1 to 5 hours for desired build-up. The liquid level may drop due to absorption. This is normal, just top it off with additional casting compound if necessary.
2. After the allotted time, pour off the casting compound. This can be poured back into the container and can be used again (provided it has not been contaminated). Allow for the mould to drain and dry overnight, or about 12 to 14 hours.
3. When the Neoprene is dry, it can be removed from the mould. This must be done carefully. Allow the casting to stand for 4 to 6 days for curing. Then it is ready to be sanded, drilled, painted.
NOTE: should be stored at room temperature. This product MUST NOT be allowed to freeze.

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

it works just like latex but is odorless and it is not harsh like other products THO it is still advised to take the same precautions when using it.. gloves and breathing mask everyone!!! LOL
but yeah... we rave so much about silicon and latex why not just add more neoprene!
Apparently LIQUID NEOPRENE has been used to make a LOT of props and builds... some that might surprise you!
you can do all the same stuff with it that you would do with latex tails or silicon tails i would think.. i mean it would just be an entire realistic working mer tail with just layers of LIQUID NEOPRENE. That sounds a LOT safer the ALEX plus! LMAO
idk so far im seeing LOTS of good things about the material THOUGH it IS rather pricey! But it might be worth it! Who knows??!!

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

http://www.mermibridg.com/category/neoprene/

This site sells it from the UK I belive. I think this stuff is worth looking into! Could be the next big thing if no one is using it currently! *shrugs*

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

And i believe i read on another site that if you order the LIQUID NEOPRENE from this sight you can order it in different strengths of flexibility!

[MerAnthony]

I have heard of liquid neoprene before. It is mainly used for rubber roofs for sealing seams, but as for a tail would be interesting to see.

[Deepsea merman]

Yeah i never heard about it. I can't wait ;)

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

im suprised its not worked with then... i mean if it's all neoprene! *shrugs* LOL

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

I personally love the tails made for the smart car commercial vid and i hope to create something similar in appearance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BolNAllOpt8

[Mermaid Jaffa]

I found this on a blog...

"One word of caution: if you live in a cold climate, don't attempt to have neoprene delivered to you in the winter. If it freezes, it's wrecked, and Mydrin won't accept responsibility for the failure."

Or maybe not good for swimmable mermaid tails.

This blog, he makes puppet doll heads, http://www.sagecraft.com/puppetry/building/neoprene.html It talks a little bit about how the neoprene cures.

So I'm assuming its not the same type of neoprene or latex that can be swum in. Its the type of rubber that is used for doll parts, it might be very heavy to swim in and not flexible.

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

but then that brings the question "What are the types of Neoprene?"

[Mermaid Jaffa]

I think its better to use what everyone is already using.

That way, if its botched, you haven't wasted a ton of money, nor are you stuck with a gallon of stuff you can't use, except to fix the roof.

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

from what im seeing on wiki Neoprene is all Neoprene. And it reads that when neoprene is used for diving suits its less flexible anyway so... idk.

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

I did see what you meant about the curing.
(As time passes, the mold will absorb water out of the liquid neoprene, eventually leaving a "skin" wich cures to a hard plastic-like material.)

[Mermiah]

You go girl! I love seeing other people innovate! But of course look into this a lot incase it isn't the best .... I would hate to see you waste your time, maybe do a test swach and hold it under water and stretch it a bit until you get a good reading on it :) but you have my full emotional support in this project! ;)

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

Actually the thing is though guys I found a website that offers the liquid neoprene in other forms of (hard and soft).
They have options such as rigid, flexible and superflexible liquid neoprene! So it does come in other various degrees of stiffness.

[Mermaid Jaffa]

There are different types of neoprene, just as there are different types of cars.

The mermaid tails you read about here is the same neoprene as wetsuit material.

Basically, you want the fabric type of neoprene, not the type that dries to a hard shell. That would prob sink you instead.

Fabric neoprene helps keep the body warm, can the liquid one do that? Esp good if you're swimming in a place where the water is always cold.

You can try though. Nothing wrong with that.

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

Thank you Mermiah!! only my second day in the tank and already this fish is turning it out LMAO!! BLOOP BLOOP!!
ROFL!! But its all good the idea is to spend only a few dollars and atempt to try this mer tail build in doll size.. Once i know that BARBIE can rock it.... THEN! I can make it life sized LOL So i would only get enough products to cover the doll. <3

[Mermaid Jaffa]

Good luck with it. It does sound interesting!

Maybe you'll be the first one that make a liquid neoprene tail!

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

Well Ireneho thing IS!!! lol
if the materal this company i found offers a flexible liquid neoprene, then things should be good!
Also even if the neoprene is hard.. sure it would be a bit of a downer true... but i would still give it a shot because the plan is to secure each scale to the neoprene wetsuit rubber one scale at a time. That shouldn't be much different then sewing or gluing pearls or sequins onto a tail, seeing as both objects are hard. Also I will be slipping the tail over a model of my body from a cast i will be making of my legs. this will allow the neoprene to stretch to my shape as i add the scales on. Now 1-2 things could happen as the tail comes off the neoprene scales COULD crack as they come closer together from less of the stretch OR they would simply sit on the surface of the tail looking pretty with little to no reaction. However all this will be done on a doll before it's ever done on me. And before i spend ANY cash on ANYTHING I'm writing to the company who sells it and asking questions about it's use.

[Mermaid Jaffa]

Cool! Post some pics, maybe some others will have ideas how you can improve it and such. Esp the ones who have made tails with sequins.

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

Right!! Totally have to!! xD
<3

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

Mk just got in touch with howling hands prop and effects company, and also the company who i saw selling it in a flexible version. Asking the people who work with the material about what it's possibilities are!

[Mermiah]

Barbie always gets the coolest things XD lol I'm glad you like it here in the tank :D it's one of my favorite places to be :3 so I'm sending you good fishes in your tail endeavor ;D (I'm so puny hehe)

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

Oh i should SOOOOO share some of my design concepts here!! I forgot all about them!!

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

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[Kelphinea_Kelp]

Ok so these looks were more just about the LOOK and FEEL more so then the tail design.. But this is how I have been putting together Mer fashion looks recently and i have sketchbooks FULL of more that i need to turn into models like this.. and ALSO tail designs rather then just outfits LOL <3

[Mermiah]

Ohhhh I like those tops :D what app/website did you use? I like the looks of it :D

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

I didn't use an app or website i simply found the naked mannequin, and Photoshopped items over it based on the sketches I made <3

[PearlieMae]

I was going to ask about flexibility, but I see you've answered that. My other question is about buoyancy. I thought neoprene floats. Silicone is neutrally buoyant.

I'm gluing individually cast silicone scales to power mesh over my leg mannequin and it's coming out pretty cool.

If liquid neoprene, the stiffer kind, can be used to make intricately sculpted, one piece custom monofins, I would love to test it!

I wonder how durable/prone to cracking under stress it can be?

I love your designs! Nice PS skills, too!

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

Thanks and yes that's true i did forget about that.. but none the less... idk the tail im hoping to make will have holes in the bottom where the monofin is and it will be cut open down the back for a zipper to get in and out of the tail... so im not sure with that much water going in and out of the tail wile swimming if it will be to much of an issue or not.

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

I'm also interested in using nude sheer body stockings/tights inside of the tail.. or maybe finding a way to only have the nude sheer fabric along the waist maybe like a nude pair of high waist spanks or even a one piece looking outfit. The reason for any of this is to use paint to blend color and scale pattern onto the sheer fabric to make it look as if the scales are fading into the skin.

[Mermiah]

Well your a super smartie!! :D if I had a computer besides my phone I would try that :)

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

If the mylon or sheer tight/stocking fabric was an entire one piece swim suit like shape the neoprene would be able to better grip onto the skin of the persons legs. Though who knows maybe the feeling of nylon might better grip the neoprene! *shrugs* None the less I like the artistic addition this adds.. and it gives the user freedom to pick to wear a waist blend option or just the tail it'self.

[Mermaid Jaffa]

Ooo! I love the top in last one! It looks so natural and seaweedy! I've only drawn one picture of my tail, but I am aiming to be the Seaweed Siren, and that would go so well with my look. But dw, I won't copy your design, I just like looking!

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

actually feel free I hope to one day making creations like this for the masses! so pull from it my brain is ENDLESS on ideas... I totes wish i could work for some mer tail creator so i could pick up on some skills of my own... So i would be glad if ANYONE used my cool ideas or just took inspiration from them.. I have limitless ideas.... LMAO
I'm ready to start being a part of the wave that is the mermaid community.. tired of watching from the shore. Been a mermaid my whole life.. just never got in the water with everyone else.

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

Oh and im right with you on a kelp mermaid! I'm one myself <------ points to name LMAO!

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

Ok i'm still contacting special effects companies for info on the liquid neoprene I will let you all know what they have to say about it being safe for long period water use and such <3

[Deepsea merman]

Then you can add silicone! and how do H2o tails

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

Ok I got feedback from all the companies i originally spoke with on this material. None of them knew anything about it OTHER then what they already do with it in their line of work. However I was given the information to contact the Chicago Latex company who they all get this material from. Well I called them, and they of course thought i was strange for asking all of my questions LOL!! But they them selves seemed unsure as to if it could work in water or not, but the man i spoke with on the phone said it probably wont hold up in water and it might dissolve but he REALLY didn't sound like he was sure on that. So I'm not taking NO as an official answer I will be calling and finding out if i can purchase a small sample of the more flexible liquid neoprene from the actual company itself or from the other companies i spoke to who use it themselves. So seems like this material is an unknown! And obviously much like that of ALEX plus! Me using it this way is not something the company intended. But WE SHALL SEE!!!!

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

Ok I contacted the Chicago Latex company and asked them for their support on my mermaid tail endeavors as the company actually sells things for mold making and artistic equipment in that media. I'm hoping that they will be kind enough to send me a cured swatch of the material so I can test it in water, or that they could just do it themselves. I let them know that this could be a great investment for them because if we as a community find value in the use of this product, they would then get an increase in sales and customers and many chances for good custo-MER relations. I let them know about our community and that there is a market that they could be tapping into. *fins and fingers crossed*

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

Ok I wrote to the Chicago Latex company and asked for sample swatches of the material so I could test it out myself. But they in fact have agreed to send me not only sample swatches of the cured liquid neoprene but also the liquid neoprene itself for me to test. Very excited!! Now i just need to grab some free samples of neoprene!

[Mermiah]

Wow! Your really going at this! (Respect!)
i hope the company's get back to you soon :)

Lets hope it doesn't dissolve :3

[Mermiah]

OH MY GOODNESS! Congratulations!! Haha this is going to be so so so cool if they work well! :D

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

Ok I got the Liquid Neoprene samples!!! I'm going to begin doing tests and sharing my findings with all of you <3

[Mermiah]

Fins crossed! I can't wait to know how it works!!

I'm just so so excited for this lol

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

OK so I have the tiny sample squares in separate bottles sitting in my closet on my shoe shelf (so I don't mistake them for drinkable bottles) And I will be checking on them periodically over the course of 24hours.
I understand that we don't all spend a full 24hours submerged in water, however my goal is to test how long the materials stand up in water for long periods of time, and even if we were to get out of the water we would constantly be getting back in to use our tails, so the material needs to be stable enough to last for a long time WITH constant exposure to water AND being submerged in water for hours at a time. (we would hate for the tails to last for one swim session, and then later fall apart in the next swim session.)
In the mean time let me share my current findings!
So far the material is turning a bit white/pale and 3 of the 4 samples sink.... the 4th sample is the KEY sample because it is the most flexible and pliable material! And if im going to use it over the wetsuit neoprene in the form of scales, then the scales need to also be able to pull and stretch with the shape and bending of the human form wile in the tail!

[Mermaid Wesley]

Hmm super interesting! it will be cool if it works.

[Mermaid Jaffa]

Oh. I thought you were going to paint it on yourself! Like use your legs as THE cast...

That's why I thought it would be hot and not breathable... Shows how little I actually know about tail making!

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

im going to be making a tail shaped body out of thick neoprene wetsuit material and if the liquid neoprene can hold up in water for long periods.. I will use it to make molds of scales! Once the scales made of liquid neoprene are done I will attach them to the neoprene suit by hand one scale at a time. If the Liquid neoprene doesn't work out, then I will just use Silicone.
The reason I even wanted to give liquid neoprene a try is because i figured neoprene is neoprene and it should do will in water. Also liquid neoprene is non toxic and doesn't have an oder and is prob VERY easy to work with as apposed to other things. *shrugs* And if it becomes a good material to work with, its less expensive the other materials and also less hazardous! So it will be an all around win win.

[Mermaid Wesley]

How's the test swatches holding up?


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[Kelphinea_Kelp]

they did turn pale/white colored kinda like a fish belly white, but OTHER then being white there doing fine. I don't see them braking down in anyway, and they are not soggy and nasty. But only time will tell. TBH they turned white as SOON as they hit the water, so there is no telling if it has to do with the curing being effected or not. But after this 24 hour period i'm going to run to the store and grab some latex gloves and see if i can get them out of the water for a bit so I can handle them, and see if they are squishy and stretchy, or have any problems.

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

It's really cool cuz it's basically just like a controlled experiment, because each swatch has different levels of stiffness, and they are numbered. I feel like im on Lilo and Stich... I swear one of the swatches is numbered 626 LMAO!!

[Mermaid Wesley]

Hm were they definitely fully cured when you put them in the water? That's odd.


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[Mermaid Sirena]

I've never heard of that it will be really interesting to see how this turns out. Hope to see pictures and hear all about it :D

[Kelphinea_Kelp]

ok so here are my findings after one week of submersion in water with samples of Liquid Neoprene!
so on the day of submersion i noted that as soon as the samples hit water they turned pale, the original color of the samples was a manilla folder nude or dirty rubber band sort of color (yellow nude), as they hit the water the color instantly went pale to a white milky color! Now though the color changed i noticed that the material hadn't begun to brake down, at least (I think) not until day 3 in water. On the 3rd day I noticed that upon shaking the bottles I had placed each sample in individually, the water in each bottle began to turn cloudy and make soapy suds, as the agitation came to a stop in the bottle the water slowly went back to what would look ordinary. After a week of full submersion i ended the test by pouring out the water and collecting the samples, I noted a distinct odor, and noted that the company said the liquid neoprene HAD no odor! it smelled like hot duct tape! (if any of you have left duct tape in your car in the summer or had it in a heated space..) I didn't inhale the odor directly i wafted the opening of the bottle and moved it from side to side and held it away, but the odor was strong and smelled exactly as I described. I am currently allowing the material to dry so further document my findings, however I can say this. I DO NOT! recommend the use of Liquid Neoprene, the material did hold up in water however left behind a cloudy chemical residue, as these are man made chemicals i do not suggest exposure to them or exposing them to others (animals included). Now with that being said i have no information on the subject outside of my findings, so this is what i do NOT know! I do not know if Liquid Neoprene could be coated with something to keep it from slowly braking down, I do not know if the chemicals in their raw state are harmful to all forms of life, and I do not know if brakedown of the material could have been avoided by lessening exposure times. With all this being said I again DO NOT! recommend or support the use of this product for prolonged aquatic use.

[Mermaid Wesley]

Very thorough, thank you :)


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[AptaMer]

Hey Kelphinea, have you thought of using liquid latex to make the scales. Neoprene glue should be able to stick them to your tail. Latex works in water. Divers used latex dry suits in the water for years before the invention of the wetsuit.

Also, FWIW I have found a couple in Russia who are molding sheets of latex with 3D scales molded right into the material.

[Mermiah]

Aw...I hoped it would work :/ but it's awesome you were this objective :)