Ethicality of using turtle shells?

[Aziara]

This is just something I'm wondering about. I would like to use some red ear slider shells instead of seashells for a top. I figure a swamp mermaid like myself wouldn't be able to find lion's paw shells, as they are not native to my area. What do you guys think about this? Is it the same as using a scallop shell, as both the scallop and the turtle are living creatures, or is it wrong because the turtle is a higher animal than the scallop? I personally don't have a problem with it, (if the animal has already been harvested for food, I feel it is more respectful to find uses for as much of its body as possible), I was just worried about offending some people.

[Mermaid Enhydrina]

It sounds interesting... Ethically I'm not sure. I guess if you're buying from a place that is already using the turtles for food than it's ok. Have you tried looking for fake ones?

[deepblue]

That's so very personal. The concept of higher animals is subjective, and lots of people have red ear sliders for pets. Some people will still care about it, some won't.

I think you are likely to run into the whole gamut of reactions.

Where are you obtaining the shells? Do they fall under your personal ethics guidelines for how animal parts are obtained? Because when it comes down to it, that's all that matters. If you're worried about offending someone, chances are, it will happen because of how subjective it is, and people tend to have more concern for animals like turtles than the they do for mollusks.

[Aziara]

Have you tried looking for fake ones? I've looked all over, and it's really hard to find fake shells. The best I could probably do would be to find some sort of plastic toy turtle and cut the shell part off.
If you're worried about offending someone, chances are, it will happen because of how subjective it is, and people tend to have more concern for animals like turtles than the they do for mollusks. Yeah, that's really what I'm worried about.

[Anahita]

I usually abide by a few rules when using animal bits - because I do use and wear animal parts all the time, especially fur. So here are my general guidelines. They don't have to meet ALL of them, but they should meet at least one for it to be "acceptable"

1. Is it GENUINELY OLD? I don't mean "vintage" as a marketing technique, I mean, was the animal killed before the Gregorian Calendar year of 1950? If yes, cool beans, don't let it go to waste! All my fur (with the exception of rabbit and lamb - but I'll get to that in the next point) has been from recycled pelts that were made before 1950
2. Did the animal get killed for food first and foremost? If yes, then by all means, please don't let the rest of the little guy go to waste if it can be avoided. I don't eat beef, but I will wear cow-leather because I know at least someone else is consuming his meat. I do eat lamb and rabbit though, and I also make extensive use of their pelts.
3.Did the animal die of natural causes? I don't think there's anything wrong with using something from an animal that just died because it was old, fell off of a cliff, or got into a fight with another animal, so long as the animal is outright dead when you find it, and not clinging to life or just a bit injured. Because if you find it, and it's still alive, even just, you should try and get animal control or something, or even take it to a vet yourself.

I don't prescribe to the idea of things being "wrong" to use or not because of the animal being "higher" or lower than others. I mean, that's kind of silly thinking, all of them are equally important to their eco-systems no matter how highly evolved they are. It's a purely human concept to think one is "higher" than the other - because of course, in this scale, the default "highest" is a human. ;)

If you do encounter trouble/friction with people, you can always explain the truth - the animal was used for food, why should the rest of it go to waste?

[BayouMermaid]

We sell them as pets at the store that I work at. Lots of kids have them, so if you are looking to work with children, I would steer clear of using turtle shells. Some people might get upset.

With that said, I think that it would look very cool and authentic. I'm not personally offended by it. Also, I'm planning on doing a silicone oyster shell top in the near future. Perhaps that could work for you too? I think oysters just scream Louisiana :)

[BayouMermaid]

Don't know how well it would hold up in water, but the fake alligator skin leather (http://mernetwork.com/index/www.ebay.com/itm/Marbled-Black-Bronze-Faux-Alligator-Leather-Upholstery-3-4-sqft-18-x27-/121304762548)might also be a good choice for a top for a swamp mer.

Link wasn't working: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marbled-Black-Bronze-Faux-Alligator-Leather-Upholstery-3-4-sqft-18-x27-/121304762548

[deepblue]

If you find using turtle shells won't work for you, think about other animals in the swamp a mer could use. I think a silicone top made to look like alligator skin would look really cool as a top. Or create a top out of something that looks like you made it from an invasive species. Pythons, for instance. You could also go with plants from the area.

Of course, silicone is expensive and time consuming. And you either have to pay someone to make it or learn how yourself.

Or- look in thrift stores, vintage shops, etc., for local turtle shells which haven't been part of a living animal for ages. The story to kids could be that your great-grandma mer left them to you.

[MermanZen]

Well that's a pickle, now this is just me but I'd prefer using the scallop shells. I love the idea of a turtle shell top though, I think it would be better to go with a scallop one but since you are a swap/marsh Mer the turtle shells would be best.

[Aziara]

We sell them as pets at the store that I work at. Lots of kids have them, so if you are looking to work with children, I would steer clear of using turtle shells. Some people might get upset.

With that said, I think that it would look very cool and authentic. I'm not personally offended by it. Also, I'm planning on doing a silicone oyster shell top in the near future. Perhaps that could work for you too? I think oysters just scream Louisiana :)

I was just thinking about oysters as a top, though real ones are much too small (unless I used several, then it might be bulky). If you do make a silicone oystershell top, I'd love to see how it turns out. Right now, I'm trying to find a plastic toy turtle in the right size. And if it's cartoony toys rather than realistic, so much the better, I'll be swamp Ariel, lol.

[Kishiko]

I don't think it's a bad thing ethically. It's no different to me than using scallop shells, they're both animals no matter what. I'm not saying you should go kill a turtle and take it's shell (good God please don't do that) but it would definitely be unique. And if a kid asks just say you found it in a lake or swamp just like you might find a scallop shell. Circle of life (O) :) :thumbs-up:

[AniaR]

I think we can discuss it all we want and have whatever opinions we want but what it comes down to is that people will see, people will judge, and you need to be prepared for that. If you can handle that, then go for it.

[Aziara]

Thanks for all the opinions, ya'll. I think I'm going to try to find plastic turtle shells. I did find this Snapping Turtle model that looks pretty awesome, and if someone mistakes it for real, snapping turtles aren't really all that cuddly like red eared sliders (you'd loose fingers if you had a snapping turtle for a pet). I'm not sure about the current generation, but I know the baby boomer age group around here love to eat snapping turtle, so I know at least some people are more likely to think of it as a food creature rather than a pet. The photos are too big to post, so here's the link to them http://animaltoyforum.com/index.php?topic=127.0 Hopefully I can find it locally, so I can see how long and wide the shell part is.

[Melina Marina]

My dad and I hike a lot, and on several occasions have found empty turtle shells in the woods--I have a beautiful one my dad found that is sunbleached white. They can be a pain to clean/preserve, but I would say if you scavenge around for them yourself it's probably fine. The only downside to that is that it's going to take a while to find some, and even then you aren't guaranteed equal sizes.

The ethicality of shells/bones for me has always been a struggle too, I understand. But I think in the end it depends on how you feel about it and whether you personally feel you did something right or wrong. I know even killing animals for food used to bother me, until one day my dad told me he takes hunting very seriously, and always thanks the animal for it's life. Which sounds kinda hokey, but it really stuck with me. I think as long as you acknowledge the life/sacrifice of the animal then it's okay.

I don't think kids would be much of a problem, as you could say something like "my turtle friends lent them to me" or something along those lines.

And I think it would make a lovely top!

Perhaps try looking around online for ethically found/preserved turtle shells?

[Echidna]

personally, I wouldn't use any part of an animal unless I find it lying around somewhere.

the shops that sell shells, pearls and dried fish/seahorses/seastars catch and kill live animals for their supply.
and no, I don't make a difference between a scallop or a turtle; they're both animals.

if you can find something in the wild from a deceased animal, there's nothing unethical about it,
but if you're going to buy something, please stick to facsimiles instead the real thing.

[Aziara]

I've decided to use replica turtle shells. Mainly because I love the fierce look of Alligator snapping turtle shells, and they're listed as 'threatened' (one step under endangered), so I'm absolutely not using their real shells. Unfortunately, the toy I posted before has a shell of only 4.6 inches long, and I don't think that's big enough. If I can't find any, I'm going to try to find some sort of fake plant that resembles duckweed and use that to make a plant-based top. http://www.waterplantsforponds.com/images/duckweed2.jpg

[Aziara]

I swear I must sound ADD in my posts sometimes (I'm doing this. Oh wait, no this. NO WAIT THIS! ha ha). I couldn't find any replica alligator snapping turtle shells of the right size (only size I found was over a foot in length. May I say 'oh snap'? :D), so I bought 2 of this plastic turtle on ebay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/331152956841 I'll be repainting the shell to look a little more realistic, thought I probably won't copy any specific freshwater turtle completely. If kids ask me, I'll say that I used mermaid magic to borrow my friends' shells without hurting them (which, when you think about it, is a fancy way of saying replica).

[Mermaid Wesley]

Ooh you should drink tell keep is posted!


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