Standard Monofin tail vs an extended tail ( H2o & Splash )

[MarkF]

In H2o, Mako, Aquamarine and the first Splash the fluke has a 10” or so extension making the feet up inside the tail. On the bottoms of their feet is a plate which a flexible rod connects to the tail a distance down. Does that work? Does anyone know if this was a good swimmer? Luno Makes a Monofin and Orca which are extended.2206122059

[Mermaid Narina]

I love how they look, plus they avoid the "heel" bump at the end of most tails. However I'm really tall so if I had an extended monofin it would be scary long haha :P

[MarkF]

I like losing the heels and knees in that design. I'm 6' and with a 36" wide trigger fish style fin and extension - I'd be about 10 to 11 feet long. In scuba gear I'm 8+ foot and diving that size sharks are intimidated by a couple people that big.

If someone said to you that you look long just tell them you are a deep water Mermaid. Coastal dolphins are half the length of a deep water dolphin, gotta be true for mermaids as well. :)

[Fun123joker]

i dont know seeing them swim looks unnatural to me

[Echidna]

The "short-tailed mermaid" is a recent development.
Ancient depictions feature very long, sinuous tails, sometimes snake- and sometimes even octopus-like:

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stories also tell some mermaids were several hundred metres long :p

if you can find a way to make it work, go for it!

[mermaidgirl7]

where can you get extend tails?

[MarkF]

I'm making it! :)
I've made many things and designed drives systems and stuff. My tools would fill your bedroom.
For me it's a matter of deciding whats right for me. I'll make the tail fin in fiberglass and cover it with Silicone to make it flow in the water. Before I start though I need to decide long or short. I may make a fin first to try and then make the tail depending what I find, but that means I'd have to make the tail twice. :(
Still not sure of color though, maybe Silvers on the bottom and changing to blues on the top.

[Mermaid Kassandra]

Sounds extremely cool!!! I'm so excited to see how it will turn out!
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[MarkF]

I've sent a email to Hanna Fraser to see what she thinks of the long tail.
I believe she's tried the H2o tail. :clap:

[Trident True]

if you decided to do this please, please post pics. ive tried to attempt this kind of tail. ive got a thread on here. but i had some problems with the extension. its not quiet as easy as one may think to create it. I wouldn't recommend the extension any longer than 12'' 1 foot otherwise you may have trouble moving the tail. this is just some things ive experienced with my newer design. I looked into the Luocent flipper but I thought that attaching the fluke would be quiet difficult as there would be nothing to support the middle and only the top so it would be too floppy. I was looking at attaching lexan to the mono fin to make it larger, but then you've got the risk of it snapping. I love the look of the tails as i feel they look so natural in regards to not showing your ankles and heels.

Ps if you decided you want to go with the luocent monofin you need to make sure that you can access the foot part of the suit because the shoes NEED to be thoroughly rinsed in freshwater after every swim due to them decaying. (looked into it)

does anyone know the width of the luocent monofin? I couldn't find it on the website. I know the new one measures 30'' 2.5 ft now that's big.

if you have huge success with this project you will be a LEGEND. good luck to you. :) from what ive head the Luno is very. very good. it gives speed. that's why i looked into it.

[Mermaid Narina]

Wow that sounds really cool! you seem to know your stuff ;)
The only worry I would have is if the strain on your ankles could cause injuries? But I'm not sure haha

[MarkF]

22150In regards to the fin 33” wide, I’m making the bones in fiberglass and not actually using the Luocent. I think that would make more sense at this time because of the extension and the angle, I’m comfortable with the glass and can make the fin centered with the ankle and with the foot not being at such extreme that could also give me propulsion in both directions. A dolphin can move his fin up a few degrees where a monofin only lets you move in one direction.
In the movie Splash, Darrel’s foot couldn’t move at all. In H2o and the other Australian productions I’m not sure, I think they can move. The tails look very long in the pics though.

We have an Island, Catalina Island off the California coast which has a current that runs by it longwise There are areas that you are sweep along for miles and requires little effort, just popping up for air. You just pick your depth and watch the rock and fish passing by for miles. The boat drops you off at the top and pick you up at the bottom, so this is what I’m targeting. “Could you imagine a POD all together”
I have a few goals in the design which in diving I’ve enjoyed and want to improve like gliding. Using a standard monofin your foot is at an extreme position and while relaxed points straight down, gliding you’ll have to keep your foot pointed otherwise you stop.
That leaves us with the design- the body in alignment, fin tip, ankle, knees and hips in a line. Oh, in the artwork I haven’t added the scales because and this isn't what the fin would look like, I’m not sure if the extension 4” or 10”. Still think'en.

[MarkF]

What was your extension like? Did you create any framework in it to hold it up? What was your experience?

[Trident True]

I made my extension out of hollow silicone it was about 10'' it was sturdy but ended up being too heavy. it was about .5 to 1cm thick. that was attached to the neoprene suite. when i put on my suit i couldn't even lift my fluke. most flukes are heavy but i just couldn't see it working. I stated 12'' as most people want the longer look in the extension and 10'' may be to short but you'll be surprised on how heavy silicone really is. my newer design allows about 4 inch extension from the bottom of the toes. yes its not long, but all i want is to get this project done. its been 2 years since i started, but i Have been looking into another way on creating a extension if all goes well with the swim of my current tail then I will be using that layout to perhaps create another tail with a longer extension.

my experience is the extension is either too heavy or the fluke. i made a tail with an extension that tapered off like a cone. it was like a spring bobbing up and down. when fluke was put on i couldn't lift extension. its was quiet stiff the silicone but still a no go. so i can tell you this much. anything you use or attach the fluke to must be solid. eg rod. flippers, spring etc then of course the silicone comes over the top to hide it all

http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?6703-Kyle-s-H20-Mako-mermiads-inspired-tail-with-a-splash-of-personality!!!

[Mermaid Wesley]

Well with an extended tail I wouldn't expect it to be able to do much of anything out of the water.


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[Trident True]

true, but if i kept it that way i would of been kicking water. you just know when something will work and won't

[MarkF]

I agree with Mermaid Westley that the weight doesn't matter out of the water. Are you anticipating that your neoprene will add about 3-5 pound of buoyancy, how will you weight that? I've seen a clip that the H2o crew had a nylon fabric tube which lead shot was added.
To bad you couldn't have tried it, I understand what you mean though. By looking at what you've made so far your almost there and it looks good. Are you adding the straps inside to fix it to your legs? If so, I wonder if it will creep off your waist like the just Silicone ones do?
I've noticed that the movie tails don't flex much and that's good for the zippers, but the local real mermaids don't use zippers or neoprene. They use the simplest designs with nice molded scales.

[mermaidgirl7]

this is all very awesome. You should post pictures as you go.

[MarkF]

On the 1st I asked Hanna Fraser about using the H2o tail and this is from her reply,
"They are great for going straight ahead and fast..everything else is a challenge"
Thanks Hanna

Humm? I like fast, I wonder how hard turning is when she says- Challenge?

[MarkF]

Maybe it's tight turns? Loops are probably 15-20 feet and that would be tuff in a pool.

[MarkF]

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Everything I know of H2o

[Trident True]

WOW, this is a lot to take in.. so far you probably the only one that has found this information. I was originally going to but in belts as a precaution, but then thought i might not need them. the tais very tight around my hips and butt. so there may be a chance it may not slip down at all. i may create myself a neoprene sock to put over my legs if it does end up slipping down. I havent tried it yet but we shall see, in my thread the tail with the neoprene was my first failed attempt which didn't end up working out. I wish i had this info before i started on the project as it would of helped. the last full silicone tail in my tread is my Newer version of the tail. but with my first tail i wasn't on the right track, it looks to me that the neoprene Suit as padding in it which i never knew of. so this is what i have come up with. do you think that this will work?

looking at clair in the photo. look to the feet area. imagine using a pair of Rubber flippers. the shoe part of the flipper would act as the foot pocket and the rest of it would act as the extension. the flippers may need to be cut back etc etc to get the desired look. the fluke is place about 5 to 6'' under the bottom of the toes, so attached to the flippers. Then the silicone skin is placed over top of the flipper and Siliconed into place. keeping in mind that the silicone skin is hollow, but slightly larger around the foot pocket and flippers so it doesn't ''show'' them up in the suit. 1cm thick silicone is actually quiet sturdy and holds its shape eg when you press on it it will not sink in. the extension in my eyes would add too much weight to the end of the tail if it was solid silicone. to my knowledge though I think you can purchase silicone foam {which it lighter} that could possibly be used in the extension part if you think that it should't be hollow.

[MarkF]

In regards to the belts, the loops are sown into a reinforced sections of the neoprene which the backside was later covered. Your sock idea may not have the room.
My first thought for filling the void would be to use nylon tubing. It's hollow, if thin walled would have some give and if many were stuffed in would slide against each other.
Once they found their rod length the tail fin bone and rod were made one piece.
Using the fin from your swim fins may work, really depends on the glue I suppose.
Dude- your making it your so ahead of the pack. Good job. I'm still drawing my fluke bones to create a mold for the fiberglass, I'm concerned too, the glass fatiguing in the rod. I'm still unsure of the union of the rod to the foot pocket. Maybe one piece of fiberglass, Foot pocket to finbone tip.

In the Mako seasons they lost about 25% of the tail weight which makes me think they dropped the neoprene suit.
I also wonder if the tail rod extends up to her ankles and has reinforcement instead of just a plate on the foot bottom.

Well, I've decided to create a similar tail with some changes. The Neoprene gives their tail more girth and additionally hides knees, I wasn't planning on neoprene but I'll have to reconsider it, it does reduce the silicon and really helps give this look. Also I know I going with larger scales and differently not orange. I think it needs a deeper tail, but Hanna said it's fast so maybe i'll keep their design. Colors I know Silvers and Blues for the Pacific Coast. :phew:

[Trident True]

if your going with a fibreglass rod it may be a wiser choice to go Nylon rod, as we know that it holds up under pressure. I think the mako mermaids have a spring in them not rod. apparently with the rod it nearly adds 2ft as ive read from the bottom of the toes. the Nylon insert that is inserted into the fluke which attaches to the rod and foot plate is obviously for structure, but it will limit the flexibility of the fluke. I would go with a complete fiberglass foot pocket with the rod attachment. With the suit, perhaps the padding is some sort of foam that will take the weight off the initial tail. maybe its only been put in certain areas in order not to make it completely weightless so you float?

some things to think about when creating.

to make it easier to get your feet into the pocket. make sure the zippier. if using one goes all the way down. i find it hard to get my feet in and centred. only because my zippier doesn't go the length of the pocket.

are you going to be simply relying on the extension mechanism to push you through the water, or are you going to be able to bend your legs as well? as far as im aware the girls in H20 could't bend them but the girls in mako mermaids could.

[MarkF]

Seems they have flex and Hanna's answer that the tail was fast also reinforces the point is works.
Check out this link, it show the tail in action. -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT_sqLQ9lH0
Have you measured the width of the tail fin compared to Claire? It's close to 4 feet or 1.21 meters, what do you get?
If that tail is that big I have to try it before any skin gets made.
I'm tempted to write them and see what they actually say.
This may be a illusion of the camera.

I know everyone in Mernetworkland has tails that have to be stretched to get on, I don't think H2o made this tails tight, it's all about the belts and the waist band. I've also watched videos of them putting it on, and the crews not struggling with the zippers.

This newer designs do look to be steel spring or white fiberglass like an archery bow.

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The photo with the three suits, the filled one shows the fin shaft at the coming out of the heel and the flatten suit its still straight. That makes me think the shaft is connected to the legs somehow and not a foot plate. Weird & interesting, wow. I'm seeing a lot of lessons from this evaluation.

[Trident True]

Ive had a look at the vid i noticed that the girls don't bend their legs. so perhaps its not attached to the legs. they simply rely on the mechanism to push them through the water. as far as width goes will depend on hight and weight. my fluke is just over 2ft wide, but im quiet slender. anything wider than this make it's look um-proportioned to my body. 4ft to me sounds too large not to mention the weight of the fluke. there could be a possibility of 2.5ft wide. 30'' but not 4ft 48''. when you do up your fluke (shape) its best to draw it on paper first this will allow you to see if it looks proportioned to your body. a 4ft fluke would suit Michael Jordan not Claire :) Seriously though these tails have done my head in trying to figure out how to make them. if I wasn't saving for a house. I would simply spend the 10K and get one :)

[MarkF]

I don't think the real mermaid or pro version of a long tail has been made yet.
As far as the hydrodynamics control the wearer has is yet to be created or at least improved. Meaning with a long extension the pivot point for the fin show be at the beginning of the fin and not over the middle of the spring or at the wearers ankle at 10" or 12" away from the fin. Using just a flex rod or spring doesn't give the wearer any small steering control and that's why Hanna Fraser I believe felt it was fast, but challenging to use.

From this I think I'm ready to draw-up my plans and agree with you on the H2o tail width is crazy “at least in the blue picture”, except that I'm going to start with a 33ish" wide tail. Many ocean fish tails are the height of the body with the body fins extended, my generality for the tail is twice my shoulder width. Sooo my shoulder are about 17" wide. That gives the fin 8" of clean water on either side.

As far as the tail’s articulation to provide slow speed steering I've got some ideas. Well Trident True, thank you for the ideas and your experience. I going to CAD next and work out the mechanics for the tail and build it without the legging skin. I’ll let you know how that comes out.

Ya know, we could draw a good construction plan set if we wanted to for the H2o tail now. They must thicken areas with layering neoprene to faten and keep the body from wrinkling. In its finished design there isn't any stretching of the skin and the belts hold it on. I think if it did have to stretch 2" like many of the MerNetwork tails the scales would pop off. Also neoprene is limited in it’s stretch. Positive side for the tail is I think you could make it fairly inexpensively and quickly compared to the 100% silicone tails. :phew:

[Trident True]

sounds like a plan, I will watch this thread to see how it goes. good luck with this :)

[PearlieMae]

I think part of the issue with creating an extended tail to swim in is that the only references to extended tails are tails used in TV/Movie production! They aren't meant for more than short segments, the mers have handlers and crew and basically, the tails are just for show. Literally.

I've been mulling it over in my head while I work on my "standard" length swimming tail, and if I were to tackle an extended tail, I might look into using carbon fiber rather than fiberglass or nylon 'bones'. The interior structure would need an elaborate strap attachment system - or other typical prosthetic stabilizing system - in order to transfer power to the end of the tail to propel you through the water. And, lacking a musculature into the end of the tail, you are going to have to sacrifice some propulsion and/or maneuverability in order to create length. A large proportion of the propulsion (say THAT three times fast) from feet in a monofin is generated from direct contact with the fin and the strength of your ankles and leg muscles. You MIGHT be able to make a carbon fiber muscular interior system cutting the fiber on the bias and making a second layer that is a counter bias, transferring movement down the length of the tail, but it would take at least a year of trial and error just for R&D alone, not to mention thousands of dollars in supplies...all before even skinning the whole thing to look real!

I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'm not sure that an extended tail can be all things a mer would want. It might look good, but you lose finesse. It might be powerful, but you sacrifice turning, it moves perfectly through the water, but you are a dead stick on land because of weight...etc.

I'm not sure that it would be very practical, overall.

EDIT: Just playing Devil's Advocate.

[MarkF]

Hi PearlieMae,
Yes,No,Magic,Maybe-
Yes I agree, Hollywood props- They are for the screen.
Devil Advocate, no way. Mermaid BrainyMae - way!
Structures, efforts, heavy on land? A little magic will solve the structures and effort, which I'm want to test before the big reveal.
Heavy maybe on land, I am expecting 15% more.
I'm building a test for the Fin extension. MerMagic :dance:

[Trident True]

I will be giving it another go after this tail is complete. ive got a concept i want to try first and if all things go well with my current tail. (due to build) then I will endeavour on to the newer design. once My concept has been created and tested we shall see how things progress.

[mermaidgirl7]

hows the tail coming?

[Mermaid Narina]

eep this is so exciting! alot of big words that i dont really understand are being thrown around, buts you guys really seem to know what you're doing :) i love seeing all those pictures showing the tails being made- where on earth did you find them???

[MarkF]

I am closer to the test build of the extension to cover the issues created in the TV design. Our PearlieMae pointed out a few of them. My hope is to design a tail that puts some of the magic back.
I have three areas in the tail to make what I think would add some magic.
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First, the tail fin must move where it’s natural and not where the hosts ankles are located. It doesn’t matter how long the tail. It only wiggles the tail fin “Caudal Fin.” That loses the ankle look.
If the fin is the same for the short tail and the long tail it takes twice the effort to swim, but you go twice as fast. Because we aren’t racers I plan on making the tail a little softer so it’s about the same effort and speed to swim. Done-
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Second, fish can move both sides of the tail fin separately. That gives them the ability to make their tail swim sideways where Merfolk tails fin sides move up and down together only. When gliding a fish can twirl “Spin” by making one side of the fin go up and the other side down. This is also helpful when turning by banking to a side and doing a kinda sideways loop. The foot pockets will have spots so if your legs are able to kick harder than your ankles can hold the stops keep the feet from getting any extra stress and hurting the ankles. Done-

Still in CAD development-
Third is the ability to raise and lower the side fins or in many of the Mer designs the dorsal fins.
To me when a kid is evaluating what they see I think it’s texture and motion “Is it alive”. If the mermaid without the use of her hands can make the dorsal fins raise up when startled or go down when shy or scared helps make that moment of wonder last longer. I have a plan for this but haven’t put it in CAD yet “designing stuff for work and Life, keeps me going in different directions.”

This is all talk until I can get it in the pool. The drawings for me to visualize the mechanics, the actual tail will have push/pull cable which I put in some boat control system I’ve designed. The square board looking parts will be formed fiberglass to fit my legs.
The Merworks are still going. May skip the 3rd part just to try the 1st and 2nd parts.
....PS foot angles are for me, they are exaggerated. Thanks ya-all.

[aqua_dot]

This looks amazing!

[Echidna]

I'm following this thread with great interest.
How is this coming along?

I'm especially curious if this device is really good for going fast (and straight- doing anything else will probably be nigh on impossible).
I wonder because I've been re-watching all H2O seasons, and I noticed none of the scenes where the tails are shown in action is longer than 2 or 3 seconds.
Most scenes are just close-ups where the tails aren't even on screen.

The scenes when they really swim, it's hard to say how fast they move, but it sure doesn't look fast.
It looks elegant and graceful, sure, but they hardly get forward.
I'm pretty sure they sacrificed not only manoeverability, but also speed for the realistic look of a long, knee- and ankleless tail.
I've yet to re-watch Mako, because I believe they showed the actors swimming a bit more and it looked better, probably due to the tails being lighter and less cumbersome, but even so, the extended tails are designed to be used with a whole slew of helpers, and I wouldn't expect them to be faster than a normal monofin- all H2O swimming looks as if done in slow-motion.

If I had the money, I'd invest in the Lunocet or Dol-Fin and try an extended version myself.
I've read many reviews about both, and while the creators claim the fins were built for speed and are the fastest way to move underwater ever, the swimming videos where they demonstrated looked rather average speed-wise. :p

Ah well.
Can't wait to see what this develops into.

[Mujdak]

Ive had a look at the vid i noticed that the girls don't bend their legs. so perhaps its not attached to the legs. they simply rely on the mechanism to push them through the water. as far as width goes will depend on hight and weight. my fluke is just over 2ft wide, but im quiet slender. anything wider than this make it's look um-proportioned to my body. 4ft to me sounds too large not to mention the weight of the fluke. there could be a possibility of 2.5ft wide. 30'' but not 4ft 48''. when you do up your fluke (shape) its best to draw it on paper first this will allow you to see if it looks proportioned to your body. a 4ft fluke would suit Michael Jordan not Claire :) Seriously though these tails have done my head in trying to figure out how to make them. if I wasn't saving for a house. I would simply spend the 10K and get one :)

how would you get one :)

[Trident True]

Mujdak. the creators of the tails will make them as long as you can afford the price tag.

[Mujdak]

Thank You for the answer.
Do you know about any creators?

[Mujdak]

Hello MarkF,
what about this project? Any results?

[Trident True]

Thank You for the answer.
Do you know about any creators?


the only creator I know that does tails like in h20 are the ones that created them for the show in Australia.

[Freshwater_Nim]

Whilst I like and love the idea of an extended tail, I have to say none of the practical examples I've seen have entirely convinced me. The "Hook" ones look nice and organic but the actresses have to struggle like crazy to get any propulsion at all which is not only impractical but also looks positively stressful. The ones from H2O, Fish Tails, and Hannah's Heart's Atlantis are on the other end of the spectrum and look bulky, oversized and the movement is always just that bit clumsy and awkward.

If some clever engineer finds a way to make it work I'm all for it. But personally I've decided not to try my hands on that if not even the pro fx whizzes can make it work. :D

[Sharkmaid Victoria]

If someone actually does manage it, They'll be up to their ears in tail request. lol

[Mujdak]

Yep, you are right.... I was just wondering ;)

[Mujdak]

Pitty,
the're not doing anything for public

[Mujdak]

I've heard they made several kinds. Do you think this one is made for swimming? And when you look at the picture of H2o presearch, you can see the rod...on the sketch. What are the black things on each side then? Thanks for help. I really think about doing a tail. But I am bit discouraged when I see how many people gave up. And I am also not so .... you know .....skilled

[RNHime]

I've heard they made several kinds. Do you think this one is made for swimming? And when you look at the picture of H2o presearch, you can see the rod...on the sketch. What are the black things on each side then? Thanks for help. I really think about doing a tail. But I am bit discouraged when I see how many people gave up. And I am also not so .... you know .....skilled

Hi Mujdak,

I would highly recommend if you've never done any monofin swimming you get one to try it out, and swim without a tail before you pursue a regular or extended tail. The extended tails may have a more "real"/no legs look, but these really are TV props. Not saying that an extended tail couldn't ever be attainable, but for the average swimmer it's just not safe or practical. If you watch the underwater footage of Mako Mermaids/H2O you'll notice there is very little actual swimming going on and all maneuvering has to be done with the arms (paddling with hands or pulling oneself around rocks). In a way I think that's actually much less realistic, having the tail be so lifeless and rigid vs a proper dolphin kick. And that's why I say try a monofin! It's absolutely amazing and will forever change how you feel about swimming, but it has a learning curve when it comes to maneuverability. Personally I'm very happy to be able to bend my knees and ankles while using my fin, and would opt for a "regular" tail so that I can do backflips and such underwater. Not to mention how much harder an extended tail would be to maintain, store, and transport!

Again, I'm not trying to come across as a dream-crusher or something terrible like that. I just think you'd really like to try practicing in a regular monofin, first. Get a feel for it, see how you move and how much smaller swimming pools suddenly become when you're a mermaid, even a short-tailed one. ;)

[Mujdak]

Hi Mujdak,

I would highly recommend if you've never done any monofin swimming you get one to try it out, and swim without a tail before you pursue a regular or extended tail. The extended tails may have a more "real"/no legs look, but these really are TV props. Not saying that an extended tail couldn't ever be attainable, but for the average swimmer it's just not safe or practical. If you watch the underwater footage of Mako Mermaids/H2O you'll notice there is very little actual swimming going on and all maneuvering has to be done with the arms (paddling with hands or pulling oneself around rocks). In a way I think that's actually much less realistic, having the tail be so lifeless and rigid vs a proper dolphin kick. And that's why I say try a monofin! It's absolutely amazing and will forever change how you feel about swimming, but it has a learning curve when it comes to maneuverability. Personally I'm very happy to be able to bend my knees and ankles while using my fin, and would opt for a "regular" tail so that I can do backflips and such underwater. Not to mention how much harder an extended tail would be to maintain, store, and transport!

Again, I'm not trying to come across as a dream-crusher or something terrible like that. I just think you'd really like to try practicing in a regular monofin, first. Get a feel for it, see how you move and how much smaller swimming pools suddenly become when you're a mermaid, even a short-tailed one. ;)



Hi,
Thank you very much for the post. It is very nice of you and I appreciate it. I have to try monofin ;) You are right. I was trying to swim like a mermaid but my legs were always separated. I love sea and underwater swimming and diving. You are surely right. With monofin you can have a different point of view.
I just wanted to feel like a part of it :D To have this incredible tail. But it is probbably not so easy right? Thank you for the ''hint''
Have a nice day ;)

[darksiren]

I think I really like the video that shows the version of tail where the monofin becomes side fins with a tail trailing behind. What I don't understand in that video, is it seems obvious that they have no support structure or filling in the extension, nor stiffness in the false fluke. I don't understand why, as this seems to me that it only looked good spread out and unbent. Seems like it wouldn't be difficult to remedy.

and Again, as mermaids who want the extended tail look, why are people pushing so hard for it to have great propulsion? It would be better to have one that is graceful and swimmable, but not likely to win you any races, yeah? It's for the LOOk and FEEL of the thing.

[Sherielle]

I think I really like the video that shows the version of tail where the monofin becomes side fins with a tail trailing behind. What I don't understand in that video, is it seems obvious that they have no support structure or filling in the extension, nor stiffness in the false fluke. I don't understand why, as this seems to me that it only looked good spread out and unbent. Seems like it wouldn't be difficult to remedy.

and Again, as mermaids who want the extended tail look, why are people pushing so hard for it to have great propulsion? It would be better to have one that is graceful and swimmable, but not likely to win you any races, yeah? It's for the LOOk and FEEL of the thing.You want to be able to swim. The more tail, the more drag. I would hate to be in a tail and not be able to go anywhere while in the water. To me that would bring on panic.

[Mermaid Kelda]

^ A tail is a huge advantage for many people in terms of swimming ability. I can't swim very well without a tail. I agree, tails are about the look and the feel, but for me the feel needs to include some amount of speed.

[RNHime]

and Again, as mermaids who want the extended tail look, why are people pushing so hard for it to have great propulsion? It would be better to have one that is graceful and swimmable, but not likely to win you any races, yeah? It's for the LOOk and FEEL of the thing.

For most people that enjoy tail or monofin swimming it's about the effortless speed and ease of use. Extended tails are generally the opposite of that. It's definitely a matter of preference, perhaps someone really only wants to gently paddle around or lounge for amazing photos. If so, that's cool! But it can be hard to remember for the rest of us who want/need to have a practical, speedy tail. Also, a lot of the people who are interested in an extended tail are going by what is portrayed in the media. It's kind of a knee-jerk reaction to immediately point out how difficult (and way more expensive!) an extended tail is to make and use. And generally once people see that obstacle they opt for a "short" tail or regular monofin. It's definitely best to practice in a standard fin before going for extended, anyway.

I think the fact that no one has a swimmable extended tail for personal use speaks volumes. (If someone did make one, please correct me & share it!)

Just my personal observation. I definitely fall into the maneuverability-and-speed before all else camp. I'm not saying that the form-before-function camp is wrong, just that it's hard to wrap my brain around why someone wouldn't want to be the more fast & graceful fish in the pond. ;) (Purely my opinion but I think standard length is way more graceful - I've never seen anyone in an extended tail do a backflip, for example. Biggest "trick" I can remember on H2O was a corkscrew move... I think extended tails are very clunky in reality. It would be amazing to see a truly functional one, though!!)

[Rett]

I'd be more interested in learning how to recreate mermaid Linden's extended tail. Hers is very fast, hides the heels for a realistic look, and allows her to turn with grace as well. Hers seems like the ultimate tail (If I was making my own version of hers though I'd go for smaller scales and a more elaborate paint-job)

[Trident True]

Mermaid lindens tail i do not believe it's extended just very well made in regards to covering the ankles.
http://static.wixstatic.com/media/523534e8f06d0aa56f4327c212741a55.wix_mp/v1/fill/w_783,h_522,al_c,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/523534e8f06d0aa56f4327c212741a55.wix_mp

all i know is that her tail was actually sculpted on a man equine of her legs in clay or Plasticine so it was 360. the scales were all sculpted into the master. then they created a 2 part mold. the hardest thing would be to create the molds. IMO.

[Merman Storm]

For most people that enjoy tail or monofin swimming it's about the effortless speed and ease of use. Extended tails are generally the opposite of that. It's definitely a matter of preference, perhaps someone really only wants to gently paddle around or lounge for amazing photos. If so, that's cool! But it can be hard to remember for the rest of us who want/need to have a practical, speedy tail. Also, a lot of the people who are interested in an extended tail are going by what is portrayed in the media. It's kind of a knee-jerk reaction to immediately point out how difficult (and way more expensive!) an extended tail is to make and use. And generally once people see that obstacle they opt for a "short" tail or regular monofin. It's definitely best to practice in a standard fin before going for extended, anyway.

I think the fact that no one has a swimmable extended tail for personal use speaks volumes. (If someone did make one, please correct me & share it!)

Just my personal observation. I definitely fall into the maneuverability-and-speed before all else camp. I'm not saying that the form-before-function camp is wrong, just that it's hard to wrap my brain around why someone wouldn't want to be the more fast & graceful fish in the pond. ;) (Purely my opinion but I think standard length is way more graceful - I've never seen anyone in an extended tail do a backflip, for example. Biggest "trick" I can remember on H2O was a corkscrew move... I think extended tails are very clunky in reality. It would be amazing to see a truly functional one, though!!)

This one is quite fast, and I can do backflips. Inside the skin is a Lunocet.
36150

[AniaR]

How do you find the foot placement for lunocet vs standard monofins foot pocket placement?

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[Merman Storm]

The Lunocet puts your feet side by side with very little space between them, including at the heels. I find the placement fine and comfortable. Its about the same as the only other monofins Ive used (the ones built into The Two Tails tail, and the Fun Fun tail).
In terms of comfort, they are quite good as your feet are in actual shoes, with a fabric liner. Your feet are not being constantly squeezed, like with a rubber foot pocket. Fit is not an issue, as you can go to a sporting goods store, put on whatever socks you want to use, and try on cycling shoes until you get a fit you like.

Ive been wondering more and more about the entire idea of using shoes as the "foot pocket" for any and all monofins, or even bi-fins. If not cycling shoes, maybe hiking sandals. For a DIY monofin, glue hiking sandals onto the sheet of plastic. They are light, strong, comfortable, hold your feet well, and waterproof.

Now, the downside is the toes of the shoes are turned up, putting a bump in the tail skin. In the picture above, you can see that bump mid-way between my heels and the fin.

[PearlieMae]

The Lunocet puts your feet side by side with very little space between them, including at the heels. I find the placement fine and comfortable. Its about the same as the only other monofins Ive used (the ones built into The Two Tails tail, and the Fun Fun tail).
In terms of comfort, they are quite good as your feet are in actual shoes, with a fabric liner. Your feet are not being constantly squeezed, like with a rubber foot pocket. Fit is not an issue, as you can go to a sporting goods store, put on whatever socks you want to use, and try on cycling shoes until you get a fit you like.

Ive been wondering more and more about the entire idea of using shoes as the "foot pocket" for any and all monofins, or even bi-fins. If not cycling shoes, maybe hiking sandals. For a DIY monofin, glue hiking sandals onto the sheet of plastic. They are light, strong, comfortable, hold your feet well, and waterproof.

Now, the downside is the toes of the shoes are turned up, putting a bump in the tail skin. In the picture above, you can see that bump mid-way between my heels and the fin.

I think some well-placed ankle and heel fins could help hide those issues. :D

[Merman Storm]

I think some well-placed ankle and heel fins could help hide those issues. :D

I agree!
Once I get my ideas solidified, and better understand this monofin, I want to get a high quality tail skin for it.

[AniaR]

The Lunocet puts your feet side by side with very little space between them, including at the heels. I find the placement fine and comfortable. Its about the same as the only other monofins Ive used (the ones built into The Two Tails tail, and the Fun Fun tail).
In terms of comfort, they are quite good as your feet are in actual shoes, with a fabric liner. Your feet are not being constantly squeezed, like with a rubber foot pocket. Fit is not an issue, as you can go to a sporting goods store, put on whatever socks you want to use, and try on cycling shoes until you get a fit you like.

Ive been wondering more and more about the entire idea of using shoes as the "foot pocket" for any and all monofins, or even bi-fins. If not cycling shoes, maybe hiking sandals. For a DIY monofin, glue hiking sandals onto the sheet of plastic. They are light, strong, comfortable, hold your feet well, and waterproof.

Now, the downside is the toes of the shoes are turned up, putting a bump in the tail skin. In the picture above, you can see that bump mid-way between my heels and the fin.
Yeah it's something we have looked into too. Great for fabric tails, but tricky for silicone! Thanks for sharing

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[Merman Storm]

I have no experience with silicone. What part will be the tricky part?
One thing that I can see that can be tricky is the gap between the toes of the shoes and the fluke. Even with cloth tails, that is an issue. As the fabric works, some slack gets into that area and starts flapping about. To deal with the issue, I made this fairing out of neoprene:
36190
The picture I posted above (post #55) of the complete tail has the fairing in place. Its attached with Velcro patches, each located where the black Sharpie marks are on the neoprene, and stretched tight. It does a good job supporting the fabric, and stood up to a test swim. But, half way through making it, it occurred to me that I could have made the fairing larger, allowing me to fit it round the entire shoe. That would eliminate the Velcro on the shoe, and cover all the shoe straps and shoe-to-monofin attachment plate as well. More neoprene is on order.

[Merman Alex]

For most people that enjoy tail or monofin swimming it's about the effortless speed and ease of use. Extended tails are generally the opposite of that. It's definitely a matter of preference, perhaps someone really only wants to gently paddle around or lounge for amazing photos. If so, that's cool! But it can be hard to remember for the rest of us who want/need to have a practical, speedy tail. Also, a lot of the people who are interested in an extended tail are going by what is portrayed in the media. It's kind of a knee-jerk reaction to immediately point out how difficult (and way more expensive!) an extended tail is to make and use. And generally once people see that obstacle they opt for a "short" tail or regular monofin. It's definitely best to practice in a standard fin before going for extended, anyway.

I think the fact that no one has a swimmable extended tail for personal use speaks volumes. (If someone did make one, please correct me & share it!)

Just my personal observation. I definitely fall into the maneuverability-and-speed before all else camp. I'm not saying that the form-before-function camp is wrong, just that it's hard to wrap my brain around why someone wouldn't want to be the more fast & graceful fish in the pond. ;) (Purely my opinion but I think standard length is way more graceful - I've never seen anyone in an extended tail do a backflip, for example. Biggest "trick" I can remember on H2O was a corkscrew move... I think extended tails are very clunky in reality. It would be amazing to see a truly functional one, though!!)

Actually this girl made one, the mking off its in 9 parts ad the quality of the video its really bad but its cool to see comeone made a tail like this!!!

[Merman Alex]

forgot to post the link!!! :lol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjFrxbR-ACE

[MarkF]

forgot to post the link!!! [emoji38] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjFrxbR-ACEGood find Alex, now we need to see her learn to use it.

Alex send her a message and invite her to the group.

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[Triton Benjamin]

Création Sirène made one!!! https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCXeS0vlrfvEsvBBshqGFl8w it is like... a dream tail...but so expensive Xc I really want to know how she does it!!