What are the big no-nos when it comes to dorsal fins?

[Mermaid Laurell]

I'm designing an orca tail, and I'd like to make a dorsal that at least looks like an orca or at least a dolphin fin, but I'm not sure how practical that is. It probably wouldn't be very big at all, but it would be proportionate to the tail. Probably a female orca dorsal. Does anyone know anyone who's made or has a tail like that? If so, what problems have they had with that style of dorsal, if any?
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This is an example of a female dorsal for those who aren't familiar with it. Thanks so much for your help!

[Anahita]

I think most people's problems have been getting it upright. Most dorsals are thin and thus floppy. I know Mermaid Creations has upright dorsals, and I THINK it's because they have thicker silicone supports. My guess is that the size and shape is what enables them to be upright on their own.

if you're willing to have your dorsal be a bit thicker and rounder that might be the way to go to get it to stand on its own

[AniaR]

Go lower back on your tail so when you roll it down you aren't putting constant stress on it

[Mermaid Laurell]

Could one not put some kind of support in it that isn't silicone? Would it have to be silicone to make it work right? Or could there be another way to make it stay up?

Sorry, Raina, could you break that down for me? I'm really new to this community, and I'm still not used to all the mermaid lingo, haha. :o When you say to place the dorsal lower back, do you mean my lower back, or further toward the fluke of the tail? What do you mean by "roll it down"? Is that something that happens when you're swimming?

[Anahita]

Silicone is tricky and only likes to stick to other silicone. You could really pout most anything in it though if you sandwich it between cured pieces, but the problem is that your tail can't have anything too stiff or else you won't be able to sit on it, or roll it down properly. I also think what Raina was referencing was putting the dorsal lower on the tail, not on your lower back.

[Odette]

Could one not put some kind of support in it that isn't silicone? Would it have to be silicone to make it work right? Or could there be another way to make it stay up?

Sorry, Raina, could you break that down for me? I'm really new to this community, and I'm still not used to all the mermaid lingo, haha. :o When you say to place the dorsal lower back, do you mean my lower back, or further toward the fluke of the tail? What do you mean by "roll it down"? Is that something that happens when you're swimming?
You can totally do that. Put some hard strips of plastic in there and that will stiffen it right up. I encased a straw in silicone once. worked ok, but was too weak .We need something harder.:confused: acrylic strips perhaps.

[Odette]

Silicone is tricky and only likes to stick to other silicone. You could really pout most anything in it though if you sandwich it between cured pieces, but the problem is that your tail can't have anything too stiff or else you won't be able to sit on it, or roll it down properly. I also think what Raina was referencing was putting the dorsal lower on the tail, not on your lower back.
Sitting! that's a good thing to think about. Maybe a sturdy plastic hose.

[Mermaid Laurell]

Do you guys think it would be acceptable to just not put a dorsal on an Orca tail at all? Honestly I'd feel bad about not having the dorsal, but I figure it's better to just never have it than to have it for a while and ruin it, and possibly ruin the tail as well.

[Anahita]

Yeah, something that's malleable but not floppy.

I wonder now that I'm thinking of it, if artificial whale bone will work. I tell people to avoid it in corsets for the very reason that it's not rigid enough to give good support after a few wears, but that gentle rigidity might work perfect for a dorsal fin.

[Anahita]

Do you guys think it would be acceptable to just not put a dorsal on an Orca tail at all? Honestly I'd feel bad about not having the dorsal, but I figure it's better to just never have it than to have it for a while and ruin it, and possibly ruin the tail as well.


If you REALLY want a dorsal and are afraid of the problems it will cause on the tail, you can make it as part of your top. Like make it so it that it can be attaché to your top's band and straps

[Mermaid Laurell]

I'm trying to Google it but I'm not turning up much info. Is there another name for the artificial whale bone that I could use?

[Mermaid Laurell]

If you REALLY want a dorsal and are afraid of the problems it will cause on the tail, you can make it as part of your top. Like make it so it that it can be attaché to your top's band and straps

That's a good idea, and I'm sure I could come up with some really creative stuff. I'll look into that! Thanks. Still though, if you have any more information on that artificial whale bone, I'd be so grateful!!

[Anahita]

I'm trying to Google it but I'm not turning up much info. Is there another name for the artificial whale bone that I could use?

I think German Plastic boning might be another name for it. It's tougher and thicker than the plastic boning you get at Jo-Ann's.

[Mermaid Laurell]

Oh, okay, I found it. I'm looking through it now, thanks!

[Anahita]

No problem. :)

[Odette]

If you REALLY want a dorsal and are afraid of the problems it will cause on the tail, you can make it as part of your top. Like make it so it that it can be attaché to your top's band and straps
Great idea. they even have those already made! just need to paint it.
TADA!
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[Anahita]

Great idea. they even have those already made! just need to paint it.
TADA!
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Sweet! That'd be perfect to work with, nearly hassle free!

[Mermaid Laurell]

Ohhh that looks like a great idea! I wonder what they're made out of! I'm Googling like a madmer over here! XD

[MerEmma]

They float big time, but yeah, it exists!

[Anahita]

Nothing that can't be fixed with a little counterweight though I bet. Just hidden at the base or something.

It must be a hallow molded plastic then?

[Mermaid Laurell]

Where on earth did you find that? I can't find a link anywhere! D:

[Echidna]

There are blue and grey swimfins too.

The problem is they're tiny (as they are meant to be a swimming aid for small children), and they are designed to keep the wearer at the surface (to teach said small kids swimming), so tailswimming under the surface is going to be difficult at best.

One could build a similar (bigger) dorsal as a back strap-on though, but you'd still have to find a suitable material.

Was planning to do this at some point, mostly because I'm curious how swimming with one underwater will feel.
And it would go well with my sharktail, of course ;)

[Mermaid Laurell]

Hmmmmmm. :thinks:

[Mermaid Laurell]

What do you guys think of gym mats or yoga mats or something foamy for the dorsal? Would it bend nicely and come back up without much issue?

[Anahita]

Gym/yoga mats might be too floppy, and you'd have to do something about their bouyancy, because I'm almost positive that, like the plastic pink dorsal, they're going to float.

[Mermaid Laurell]

Very good point. What to you guys know about rigid neoprene or rigid foam?

[Mermaid Wesley]

Mermaid Atlantis makes shark fins :) they're fabric and neoprene. The neoprene has a little buoyancy so the fin stays up in the water. You could do something similar!


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[Mermaid Jaffa]

Fin Fun has the Shark Fin.
http://www.finfunmermaid.com/shark-fin.html

Magictail.de is going to have something similar too, but I haven't seen any news of it other than the original website announcement.

I've seen a back fin (dorsal fin?) on one of the Rogue Mermaids videos on youtube. It is a handmade one I think as it looks floppy, not like the ones we have linked. I don't know her name though.

[Echidna]

Magictail.de is going to have something similar too, but I haven't seen any news of it other than the original website announcement.

I bet they ran into problems while trying to design a convincing dorsal :rotfl:

The Finfun dorsal looks good, but is very dark for a sharkfin (looks black to me).
For an orca, however, the shape isn't right.
And having the logo so visible on the dark material is serious buzzkill :p

[Mermaid Laurell]

The Fin Fun one looks like you can still go deep with it. I'm sure it has an upward pull, but it does look like it'll go down without too much trouble, especially with a counterweight.

Thanks!!!

[Mermaid Laurell]

Well there's always the option of painting, right? (: The shape isn't right, but it is better than nothing, I suppose.

[PearlieMae]

It might be buoyant, but I think it's small enough that it shouldn't be a problem. I like the neoprene idea, it might be really flowy in the water, meaning it would move a lot while swimming, but if you did it low profile, it could give the dorsal effect you are looking for.

[Mermaid Laurell]

And I was thinking, even if I had a buoyant fin attached, I could always get a weight belt to help counteract the upward pull. So, buoyant materials are fine if anyone has any other ideas to brainstorm here.

[Mermaid Jaffa]

There is the SwimFin. But its more of a floatie not a sinkable fin.
http://www.swimfin.com.au/

Or you could try finding one of these second hand on auction sites then just cut off the fin.
http://www.swimways.com/sea-squirts-swim-assist-large-p-244.aspx

I don't have experience with either products. I just know from reading the reviews and websites, so prob not an informed advice.

[Mermaid Laurell]

Yeah, I'd just like something a little bigger. I mean like 9-10" big. And I think the plastic corset boning is a great idea. I think when I order my tail I'll probably go with that idea, but just to add a little more brainstorming, what about surfboard fins? I'd worry about there being no give to it, but for someone else this might be a great idea.

[deepblue]

The problem with plastic corset boning that you might encounter is curling. It usually comes in packages in a roll, which is fine in a simple corset, because it holds itself up with the boning. But in a dorsal, you might end up looking like an orca with dorsal collapse. :/ I actually had it planned into my neoprene design (which I don't think I'll be making now), but it would have worked out okay in flukes.

Surfboard fins are very rigid, but you could use one for a mold to make a silicone dorsal out of harder shore silicone. Has anyone done that? Use a harder shore silicone for parts of a tail you want to have more rigidity?

[Toxotes]

Another possibility would be to take one SwimFin and pour some neutrally buoyant material in it. Like filling it with standard silicone, after the bottom part is cut open. Just an idea...

[Sherielle]

I know several people who use the large plastic zip ties for corset boning. Maybe that could be an option?