Egg or live birth?

[Lostariel Telrunya]

Hey!

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this thread, but there was a mention in another thread about the egg birth vs. live birth argument, and thought I would start a place where people can fight and discuss this matter in its own place. MAY THE DEBATE COMMENCE.... NOW!

[Echidna]

There was a thread about this...somewhere in the sexuality forum, methinks.

There are no recordings of child mermaid sightings though, so there might be a third variant:
mermaids are neither live-bearing mammals, nor egg-laying fish.

They're actually amphibians (which explains why there are merfolk in both fresh- and saltwater).
The spawn lies around somewhere, looking like something entirely different for a long while.
(therefor, no baby mermaid sightings.)

Eventually, they grow, but still look like something else (maybe human? the perfect disguise), until adulthood, when they undergo a rapid and violent metamorphosis, change into merfolk, jump into the next body of water, and are (almost) never seen again.

>> I had this revelation through an incredible vision, so don't steal :p

[Echidna]

one of the previous threads
http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?3627-How-mermaid-s-have-babies&highlight=reproduce

there are probably lots more.

[Ilyena]

How about a poll?

[Merman Dan]

I like the idea that mermaids are like monotremes, egg-laying mammals, but their fishy bits contribute to the reproductive process. Have you ever seen a mermaid's purse, aka shark/skate egg case? Some cat sharks, after emerging from their egg case, have bellybuttons (umbilical scars). I envision merlings hatching in a similar manner, even to the point of having an egg-tooth that dislodges after cutting through the mermaid's purse from the inside. Imagine how rare and wondrous a mermaid's egg-tooth would be!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08bz-iNNHf8

[AniaR]

I tell kids there are different mermaid species all over the world. (there are different mythos all over!). Some are more fishy and lay eggs, have scales, and gills. Some are more like mammals and breathe air, have smooth tails, and have live babies. Some are always mermaids, some can change into humans.

I actually really like the mermaid forest/mermaid saga for how mermaids are made, and I also really like the lost voices idea for how mermaids are made ;)

I also thought it would be cool if mermaids were born fully grown in a big ol egg. Imagine someone walking along the shore, poking this weird jellyfish like thing, and a mermaid spills out.

[Merman Dan]

And then there are those who we not born merfolk but gained their tails through magical means, as is the case with my mer-sona.

[Fun123joker]

once when i was in tail at a cove this little girl came up to me and ask me so many questions. the most unique one was "how are mermaid babies born?" i could tell she didnt know where babies came from. i told her that mermaids hatched from pearls and the color of the pearl is the color of thier tail. (i got all of it from mermaid melody) i played a game where the sea witch (no tail not mermaid) was born from an egg.


The spawn lies around somewhere, looking like something entirely different for a long while.
(therefor, no baby mermaid sightings.)

Eventually, they grow, but still look like something else (maybe human? the perfect disguise), until adulthood, when they undergo a rapid and violent metamorphosis, change into merfolk, jump into the next body of water, and are (almost) never seen again.

>> I had this revelation through an incredible vision, so don't steal :p

what if they did what the catfish does with the cichlid

make thier babies look human so the humans can take care of them, take the life of a human and go on to be a mermaid

i think they leave thier parents at a young age to go out and find another sea

what if in a pod there is one who watches the offspring,no idea is a bad idea

[Echidna]

If you consider mermaids waterfairies instead of an aquatic animal, you'd find some similarities with how fairies put their young into human's care until they are grown (changelings).

There are also stories of how Nöck (male freshwater spirits) or waterdragons (they're the same thing mostly) kidnap human women to take care of their offspring for many years, as if they themselves weren't able to do it.
The woman in question is usually released after 7 years or so, laden with riches from the sea.

[Starfrit]

Personally, I like the idea of my mersona having hatched from a pearly-colored sort of dragon egg (if only because her kind, in my head, based off a species of shapeshifting sea-dragons). Her egg washed up on a small beach and was found by a man on a fishing trip, who took it home to his wife. The egg hatched, and as she dried off her tail turned to legs and they raised her as a human. She didn't find out about her heritage until she was much older. :D I'm working on a novel sort of thing about my mersona to help me flesh her out a bit more and to help me connect more with her character.

I love "origin" stories like this because it's so cool to see all the different things everybody comes up with for their mersonas.

[Anahita]

All the mythology I grew up with says live birth. And the capacity to breed with humans. If not an unusually high fertility rate with humans as opposed to comparable couplings between two humans or two of the merfolk. Which actually seems not all that unusual in dealing with humanoid creatures in the mythologies.

So I had always assumed live birth because it was so matter of fact in our stories. I didn't even realize that egg-laying versus live birth was a debate until I started talking to Westerners about mermaids. Lol!

[Echidna]

Aren't the Persian merfolk just humans with the ability to live below the sea though?
No tails.

Anything but live birth wouldn't make sense in such a setting.

[Anahita]

Depends on how you interpret the text and which story you're reading.

[Echidna]

probably, although it was my understanding that there were 2 kinds of merfolk distinct from one another, one were basically humans with the ability to live underwater (with human society down below, cattle, fields, etc), and another which was either half fish, a shapechanger, or some magical (usually monstrous) creature.

This distinction is prevalent among many culture's legends, especially eastern Europe and Ireland.
It's also usually stated the "human" merfolk help out fishers, whereas the "fae" merfolk ignores or kills humans.

[Anahita]

Well if you want to go be born Iranian, learn Farsi. grow up in Iran, learn all the untranslated stories, and stuff to go figue out the interpretations first hand in their cultural context, by all means.

[Echidna]

no thanks.
Already did that for the 7 cultures that interested me most.

[Anahita]

Good to know. You should stick to being an expert in those ones then.

[Echidna]

I never claimed to be an expert in Persian lore, lol.
Just mentioned that in the stories I read said merfolk didn't have tails.
(Something you said yourself in the "mermaids all over the world"-thread, btw.)

Vague claims and being passive-aggressive instead of citing some sources is rather unfruitful for a discussion.

[Anahita]

The fact that you always have some "actually it's like this" remark to say to anyone who shares something is where my passive aggressive "expert" comment comes from. You've done it in other threads to other mers on other topics, too.

My post here didn't distinguish between either type of mermaid here, because the distinction didn't need to be made. It applied to both names. You decided to make a distinction, a wrong distinction that even went so far as to reference some versions of them as monstrous creatures to distinguish them from the other type, which I've never said, so I don't know how any confusion came about from that. And quite frankly I can't figure out why you decided to make an incorrect and unnecessary comment other than to do what it seems like you always do, which is "oh, you know something, well I know it better."

If that's not how you mean to sound, I don't really know what to say to you because that's constantly how you come off.

For reference I'm assuming you're talking about this:


In Iran, there's a couple of mythologies about mermaids. They tend to be from the Persian Gulf rather than the Caspian Sea, I can imagine the presence of dolphins and dugongs has at least a little something to do with it. The two types of "mermaids" we have are "sea-people" and "sea-faeries". "Sea-people" is the generally older term associated with them. "Sea-faerie" is a bit more recent. They can both have tails, but then again, they can also both be without tails. I guess it just depends on who is telling/translating the story. The general assumption (at least nowadays for "sea faeries") is that they're tailed in the water, but time out on land dries their tails into legs.

I state plainly that the terms are essentially interchangeable, but that sea-faerie is the more up-to-date and more consistently defined term.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Putting aside my popcorn here and chime in: I agree with Anahita. Caltuna you did the exact same thing in another thread when I talked about mermaid stories from Vietnam and China.

[SeaGlass Siren]

Back on topic: I think I prefer mermaids laying eggs rather than live birthing.

[Aziara]

Whoa, drama. Lets all take a deep breath and think happy thoughts.
I do like the metamorphosis theory, and i find myself remembering a sci fi book I once read. Granted, the aliens were crab-like in their adult form, but they laid eggs on the coral reef, which hatched into anemone-like polyps. The nursery reef was tended much like a garden. If mermaids were similar, it would explain the singing to ships. Like a killdere bird, they are putting on a show to draw danger away from their babies. The ship sinking could either be an unintended mistake, or maybe the sailors provide valuable nutrients to the polyp babies.
Hey, this is fun making stuff up! :D

[SeaGlass Siren]

^ changed my mind I like that story better.

[Mermaid Morgann]

Seeing that mermaids are built to swim like other mammals (such as dolphins, whales, etc.) I've always seen them as giving birth to live young. However, I do know of many different ways to look at it. You can say something whimsical like the tear of a maiden whose love was lost at sea lands on a pearl and that one day hatches a mermaid, or something more scientific and literal. I do remember hearing once (though we have mermen so it doesn't necessarily work) that mermaids used sailors to become pregnant simply because there were no mermen. You could also say that mermaids have to be in their human form. Personally I prefer the live birth theory but that's just my take, seeing as I treat mermaids as mammals similar to humans and their reproduction capabilities. c: I do love the different theories/stories here though.

When I get a question like this asked of me from children I usually defer to the "ask your parents where babies come from" excuse anyway. Haha! Mostly because I don't like to get into that sort of stuff with children.

[Mermaid Galene]

I think mermen ought to get pregnant and give birth as male seahorses do, so we mergals have more time to explore and frolic and lure cute sailors to their demise.

[AniaR]

YAAAS GALENE make them do it lol

[Raayvhen]

Galene! Best idea evar!

[Merman Dan]

I think mermen ought to get pregnant and give birth as male seahorses do...

i have been known to call myself Papa Seahorse from time to time. :)

[Starfrit]

I think mermen ought to get pregnant and give birth as male seahorses do, so we mergals have more time to explore and frolic and lure cute sailors to their demise.

I just read that out loud to my boyfriend and the look on his face. Oh my gods.

Have I mentioned that you're amazing, Galene? Because for real, you are amazing. <3

[Echidna]

23802

[Anahita]

You can say something whimsical like the tear of a maiden whose love was lost at sea lands on a pearl and that one day hatches a mermaid


Damn, that was so pretty to read.... I like that!

[Anahita]

I think mermen ought to get pregnant and give birth as male seahorses do, so we mergals have more time to explore and frolic and lure cute sailors to their demise.

Now if only we could make it so human men could work like that. Lol!

[Mermaid Galene]

:cool:

[Lucinda]

These are my favorite two pictures that I've found on the subject at hand. Honestly, I can't decide which I like better.

http://image.blingee.com/images15/content/output/000/000/000/2b4/45035688_319098.gif

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/99/64/f8/9964f819271688c0ca182ebc61c12743.jpg

[Ilyena]

Best concept ever!!!

[Lostariel Telrunya]

I just had the thought of what would happen if guys on land laid eggs instead of the females and live birth. That then may or may not have led to the thought of what the world would be like if guys had periods and gave birth, and then the females nursed the young, and all the guys trying to be the 'tough one' while having massive stomach cramps and mood swings. I am going to go watch Treehouse for a while and cleanse my mind of such disturbing thoughts now...

[Merman Dan]

To be fair, when my wife was pregnant with our birth children, I got morning sickness.

[MermaidBonnie]

What a fun discussion! My hubby was so cute, he said he wished he could be a seahorse and carry and birth our daughter, awe! I feel we mermaids give birth to live young, like a dolphin would. The fact that we have breasts also supports live birth bc those are needed to feed our babies. Could you imagine mermen without nipples and mermaids without breasts? That would be an interesting picture.

[Merman Dan]

The fact that we have breasts also supports live birth bc those are needed to feed our babies.

Platypus? Echidna? ;)