painting lycra with jacquard paints? help!

[Dancing Fish]

Oooooh I am so frustrated! My daughter wants a painted spandex tail. I pre-stretched the our spandex fabric and went with the "spray paint over mesh" method to make scales, but the fabric spray paint wasn't nearly dark enough. So I got out the gorgeous Jacquard Lumiere paints and went to town with the hand painting over the faint scale pattern. I'm painting on royal blue spandex and it is literally sucking ALL of the life out of these colors. They're soaking into the fabric and they look like sludge. After three or four layers I'm still not consistently getting any of the beautiful metallic sheen. Some colors work better than others-- silver is OK, aquamarine is great, but the gold and green are honestly TERRIBLE.

Then I switched to Tulip 3D paint (metallics) with Jacquard pearl-ex pigments added to boost their sheen. The initial application looked promising, but as it dried it soaked into the fabric as before and I'm getting dull patches again. I was really loving this project until I realized that to get a nice paint job, I'm going to have to put AT LEAST four layers of paint on...and even then it won't be as shiny as I hoped. Forget shading and highlighting at this point-- I can't even get a consistent solid patch of color.

Am I missing something totally obvious? Using the wrong paints? Need to pre-treat the fabric somehow? Spandex tail-painters, help! At this point I'm not sure what else to do.

On the bright side, experiments putting dragon skin over the painted test patches look AWESOME. :) It's the paint itself that looks awful.

[Mermaid Wesley]

I painted with tulips on spandex and I had to do 2 layers with drying in between. The top layer can be a bit thicker too.


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[Dancing Fish]

So it's not just me... :).
I went and got the Jacquard "neopaque" colors and tried those. While the yellow was still sludgy, it at least made a mostly solid block that accepted a second and third coat of the lumiere color much better. It's amazing how forgiving the scales are. Some rows are really sludgy (Rowan wanted to help) but overall it looks great!

[Dancing Fish]

I wonder if it's because the fabric is stretched. Maybe I'd have better luck with less of a stretch..? The paint looks like its seeping through the weave too quickly. Maybe a different backing would help?

[Raayvhen]

If you don't stretch it it's probably going to crack.

Sent by Jellyfish

[Dancing Fish]

(my inspiration) Prettiest scales ever (http://mernetwork.com/index/showthread.php?757-NEW-Painted-scales!!!!-I-m-LOVING-it!!!!-D)

So to compile what I've read (and believe me I think I've found ever dang post on here ever...) in the hopes that others might find it useful:

I couldn't replicate the lovely scale painting method in the video because she was painting neoprene, which behaves differently. Stippling works better for spandex if you're using a brush. Spraypaint and airbrushing works well too. I liked the look of Tulip silver spray paint on royal blue through a mesh, but I estimated I'd need at least four bottles of it for a good solid color on the full tail.

Paint: Best paint seems to be Createx, but Jacquard and Jones Tones Metallics and Tulip have all been used. Someone mentioned sing Folk Arts acrylics but I don't remember how that turned out. At an art store I was shown an additive for any brand of acryllic paint that would make it suitable for use on fabric-- normal paint will chip. Jacquard and other screen print colors are *designed* to sink into the fabric, so what I'm seeing is totally normal. To get good coverage on a dark background, you're going to need multiple layers. (3-5 in my case, to get a smooth, shiny coat that will totally crack if the fabric is stretched farther than it was when I painted it.) I wish I'd figured this out before I started...I was expecting a solid layer on top. I got it, eventually...after 5 coats. A base layer of Jacquard neopaque worked better than a base coat of Tulip 3D metallic paint.

For some reason green seems to be a real problem. It seeps through more than other colors. I wonder why? A base coat of neopaque yellow helped.

According to multiple links, you can't use 3D paints on a stretch fabric because they crack when stretched. If you paint the fabric stretched, they will distort the fabric when unstretched (though the tails will be stretched when you wear them, so is this really a problem?). I found that Tulip metallics (and I expect Jones Tones as well) are themselves a little stretchy when dry, but they will crack if you stretch the fabric too much. Application of a 3D line with puffy paint on pre-stretched spandex will give you a very nice opaque line that still has a little give in there for further stretching. Keeping the lines unconnected (unpainted fabric between) allows more stretch. Downside is I can't see how you could get subtle blending effects like those in the video when you do this. I haven't yet tried painting a 3D scale patch using the bottle applicator but I expect if there were unpainted patches and the scales were small, it would work.

All the above applies to plain (unprinted or patterned) nylon-spandex fabric. But when I tried these paints on shiny lycra (the kind with a printed foil surface), the foil kept the paint on the surface of the fabric. You lose the brilliant shine of the foil, but the colors stay bright. I know from experience that the foil alone rubs off very quickly, and foil dot sequins begin to peel off after a few swims, but I haven't tested painted versions. I expect that paint will last longer than the foil but probably needs regular touch ups. I also imagine a coat of silicone might help lock in the colors.

Dragon Skin silicone can be spread very easily with a spatula on a stretched piece of spandex. It was thicker than I expected. I didn't have to thin or thicken it- it soaked through unpainted portions very nicely, and some areas needed a second application for full shine where it soaked through completely. I couldn't get the solid silicone flat patch off, and it stretched beautifully with the fabric (turning white with extreme stretch). The downside was that because it soaked through, the inside of the spandex is just as clingy as I expect a full silicone tail would be, so I'll be lining any silicone-coated spandex tails I make. A coat of Dragon Skin also brings out the contrast of light paint on dark spandex. It makes the fabric look wet. So even a fairly light paint job will be enhanced by a light coat of the silicone.

I also tried applying it with a ziplock baggie (like a piping bag) to see if I could get dimensional effects, and that sort of worked, but it sat on the surface and was easily peeled off after it cured. Dragon Skin silicone applied in a thick layer on dark spandex is not fully transparent- it has a vague white opacity that didn't enhance the paint underneath. I want to see what happens when I thicken it to piping consistency and try piping on the flat layer of Dragon Skin beneath. :)

I tried the same experiments above with silicone caulk (GE silicone 100% silicone) and the effect wasn't nearly as beautiful. The caulk is more opaque and came out less shiny. Even though it's supposed to be UV resistant, I left a patch of pink lycra coated in the stuff outside for a few weeks, and the patch under the caulk faded just as much as the rest. The caulk is also way more opaque than Dragon Skin when it dries. But if you want to pipe with it (I used to decorate cakes), it's an excellent consistency for piping fresh from the tube. I made lovely silicone leaves with the Wilton large leaf tip that, when overlapped, would make seriously awesome-looking scales (assuming you have endless patience). They'd have to be pigmented, though, because they were totally opaque when cured (but shiny!).

Oh- and I'm using a stretching board. I pinned a bit of spandex to itself (serger was in the shop) and slid it onto the board to paint it. So all my painting is being done on a flat board rather than a stuffed previously sewn tail, and I plan to simply cut out two tail shaped panels from the painted fabric after I'm finished and sew it after (touching up the paint on the seams as I go). Granted, my kid told me after I'd gone through all this trouble that she wanted stripes...so the stripes will most likely NOT match up on the seams...but she's seven. She'll love it anyway. *L*

For the board, I'd previously purchased a piece of white fiberglass (FRP) wall paneling (flat on one side, textured on the other) as an experimental mono fin material (cheap! and Home Depot will cut it in half for you so you can fit it in your car!). So fortunately for me, this material does NOT inhibit Dragon Skin curing, nor does spandex itself seem to inhibit Dragon Skin curing. It cuts very easily with a jigsaw (I use a blade meant for plexiglass, which also works great on Lexan). I never tested it as a monofin but it's just as bendy as Lexan. But one bit got a little heat-distorted in the car, and never went back to being flat. I imagine Lexan really is better in the long run, even if it's 4x more expensive.

One last thing, for anyone interested in using mesh as a stencil: It's Halloween season as I write this, and I found the most wonderful large black fishnet mesh in the Halloweeen fabric section at Jo Ann Fabrics. It's a little fuzzy but the scales came out about an inch long and ~3/4 inch wide. And FLAT! so you can get fairly even scales.

I really should post pics of all this stuff. If anyone's interested I will. :)

[Dancing Fish]

Turns out if you want to paint on spandex, and you pre stretch it, consider what's behind it...
I just flipped the board over to the textured side and all the problems I had with the paint have vanished. I got a very nice color with 2 coats. I never dreamed that FRP panel would be so porous, but there must be a coating on the textured side that keeps it from sucking the life out of paint. World of difference!!

[Mermaid Jaffa]

Show us a pic please!

[Dancing Fish]

Not ignoring you, but I'm swamped with work this week...will post updates soon. :)

[Dancing Fish]

OK, I had to post an update because I managed to frustrate the daylights out of myself with this project, and put it aside for a good long time. So here we go...
26860 The inspiration pic my daughter drew. So you know where this is all going.
26861 The weird halloween mesh I used to get an even scale pattern. I used silver glitter spraypaint from Jo Ann (tulip brand I think) through the mesh.
26862 First layer. This is using Jaquard silver, metallic blue, and the yellow is neopaque yellow. I've begun the second layer of silver and you can see how bright it is! The spandex is stretched over a fiberglass vinyl wall panel (FRP) with the textured side up (do NOT use the flat side!!) Also, I'm using an expensive brush as opposed to the cheap-o one I was using before-- much better for keeping the scales nice and sharp.
26863 First side done! My daughter helped with much of the painting, which explains why some rows are sharper than others :) I should also mention that the fabric stayed in its stretched state for the most part when I took it off the board. Ummmm....
26864 Here's what the same colors (one layer) look like on a foil-printed bit of purple spandex. They lose some of their sheen when compared to the extra-bright foil, but they sure are brighter than on the non-foil lycra.
26865 Having completed both sides (yay!) I started playing with the dragonskin. Here's two layers smoothed (unevenly) over the spandex, still on the FRP board. Cool! I had to use two coats, because it sinks into the unpainted areas, and not the painted areas. (At the bottom is another scale pattern I was experimenting with. It looked really sludgy, but the silcone coat really made it pop!)
26866 Here's the back side of the lycra (FRP crinkly side), showing how the silicone has interlocked itself with the fabric.
26867 ...and the back side of the lycra on the smooth side of the FRP board. Not sure which I like better.
26868 The first sign of a problem with this fabulous plan: there are already areas where the silicone didn't bond to the paint and is starting to bubble, blister, and peel away. Perhaps a thicker coat? Also, it's sticky. Sticky-sticky-sticky! Cat hair especially LOVES the surface. It's starting to lose its sheen with every fingerprint. Not sure what it'll look like. Now, this might be my fault because I was NOT being careful while mixing the dragonskin A and B. I was eyeballing levels. So curing issues might be at work here.


And here's why I stopped working on it for awhile, because I had to wait long enough to grow a sense of humor about it. Got the leg-shapes all cut out and ready to sew together, and...

26869 AAAAAUUUUGH! :jawdrop: :cry::lol:

[Dancing Fish]

I'm thinking of doing a PearlieMae style individual scale tail for myself.

This can only end well! :p